So how important was the Davidson game and the following game against Morehead State in regards to Dale Carlson's tenure at Valpo? Carlson has been here 3 years with a record of 2-30. I keep hearing there has been improvement, but is it enough? They went from a team that is #246 in the Sagarin ratings to #245. I know Sagarin is not the holistic metric that tells all. But has there really been improvement? I keep seeing a lot of disorganization during games and coaches running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
Also, this is not all Carlson's fault of course. The president and the suitors can say it, but Valpo is not committed to football success in any way, shape or form. The university is going with the flow is just say they have a football team to bring on students.
I am not sure how to say it the right way, but the improvement at a high level is non-existent and the explanation of improvement is like buffing a turd.
Just adding information and maybe some context to contributors' thought processes:
:twocents: Davidson's HFBC had 8 years in before being let go last week and replaced immediately by an interim coach; Campbell's HFBC started the program from scratch and was there for 6 years before it was announced last week that at the end of the season he would be gone. Stacey Adams was given five and was let go after the season.
:twocents: Administrative commitment, or lack thereof, does not make PATs, does not reduce confusion on the sideline, cannot control poor officiating, or cover receivers, etc.
:twocents: While better facilities might help attract and retain more talented players, they do not make PATs, do not reduce confusion on the sideline, cannot control poor officiating, or cover receivers, etc.
I am glad of your input and getting the fact to provide a solid objective discussion. Thanks!
It is disheartening to see all the penalties, many of which seem wrongly called, nonetheless, we "earned" many of them. It is this lack of concentration or execution or whatever that must fall on the coaches. Offensively we seemed to show little imagination and defensively, although there was some hard hitting, there continued to be way to much space in which to operate.
I think this was a way bigger mess than any of us imagined. There seems to be some progress although in general it is very hard to see. I think the coach needs five years and that is probably what his contract says as well.
This latest loss has to be the last straw. The confusion on the part of the team is a direct reflection of coaching. The head coach is responsible for his hires and for getting everyone game ready. The difference in this team from quarter to quarter and week to week is astonishing. If you can't beat Davidson at home, the week their head coach was fired, you have problems that will not be solved with keeping this coaching staff around another two years. Last I checked it takes brains to get into Valpo as a student. So, we are dealing with smart kids here. Coach Carlson has bragged repeatedly about the great athletes he has added to the roster with his recruiting savvy. These guys have been playing football since grade school. They know how to play the game, and most of them have come from winning programs. There is a very real disconnect at game time. Tired of hearing the same quotes from Carlson week after week. We have to play with consistency, we have to make plays, we have to play for four quarters, we have to stop making the simple mistakes . . .
The revolving door of coordinators and assistant coaches has really hurt this program. I believe that we can expect more of the same if Carlson remains HC. He did not bring with him a solid group of coaches loyal to himself and his system. A system that he either can't or refuses to adjust to the strengths of his team. The bad hire needs to be acknowledged and dealt with quickly.
Valpo has increased the funding to football. Maybe not in ways visible to everyone and probably not enough to make everyone happy, but it is much better than in past years from what I'm told. Funding all official recruiting visits to a non-scholarship program is generous and Carlson's players have received more work-out gear and shoes than any other head coach at Valpo could ever afford to give their teams.
I hope that President Heckler and the Board are asking questions of MLB. How can a 2-30 coach be given more time? Do the right thing before we start hearing word of another mass exodus of young men from the program.
Quote from: 90 on November 11, 2012, 07:25:59 PM
How can a 2-30 coach be given more time?
Is 2-27-1 that much better? If we'd thought not, then Coach Horne would never have seen the next three seasons, which went 15-16, including the 7-3 season in 1994.
After the first 3 years, he went 65-73 in the next 13. An average season of 5-5.5. Getting rid of Coach Horne was like Minnesota thinking they could do better than Glen Mason.
And "whoops" to that.
I'm not saying Carlson's going to be Horne. I'm just saying three years' record isn't enough unless there are other factors that outweigh it.
Fair enough. as a Minnesotan I fully understand the Mason point. So, how much longer?
What significant improvement has we seen in the past 3 years?
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 11, 2012, 09:02:28 PM
What significant improvement has we seen in the past 3 years?
Good point. We appear to be less competitive in the PFL. That is unacceptable. Valpo has been bad for too long to give Carlson more time. If the team was showing consistent fundamentally sound football I might agree, but that is not the case. It's simple disciplined football that is lacking here along with intelligent game planning and play calling (why would you not feature Hutson against Davidson after his performance last week?). More time isn't going to change that. Need a new approach with a new plan.
I'm going to take some time, look at the box scores to see who has played, and what years they are in terms of eligibility. The experience of some of the played roster could have something to do with why this team is underperforming so poorly these last two seasons.
I do not agree on the theory that since a previous coach has 5 years then the next coach should ask the same time period. It should be measured on improvement, not entirely on wins and losses, but improvement. Is there concrete improvement measured over 3 years to move forward?
Again, could've said the same thing about Horne.
His offense, 1989-91:
Year 1 100 pts
Year 2 97 pts
Year 3 104 pts
Where's the improvement? Yet:
Year 4 139 pts
Year 5 239 pts
Year 6 243 pts
Whereas, Carlson's offense, 2010-12:
Year 1: 100
Year 2: 177
Year 3: 178 plus one game
(Carlson gets one more game a year, so a straight points comparison between the two is invalid, but neither was that what I'm after anyway.)
Stop the excuses. It is NOT the players. It is Carlson. Every player on the roster has played well in high school. All-Conference, All-Area, Some All-State. They all know how to play football. So what is the problem. Coach Carlson! Three years, three different Defensive coordinators. How many different assistant coaches? Why are we always playing freshmen? Carlson runs them off. So no stabilty in coaching staff and no stability on the roster.After 3 years we could be 1-9 at this point but at least we should be COMPETITIVE. What do you really think will happen if we give him 2 more years?
Again, I don't know Coach Horne or his family.
But I will say it again for LaPorte's benefit and others: Horne faced D-2 programs that gave scholarships and had VERY low academic standards to exceed. I think chiefly of Grand Valley State and Saginaw Valley State in Michigan. Absolutely different scenario.
So...enough with defending Carlson by comparing him to Horne's first 3 seasons! Not to mention the campus was totally ugly then with no new buildings since early 80s when he coached. Place was hurting across the board while Homer D.'s crew also lost big.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 13, 2012, 09:53:08 AMHorne faced D-2 programs that gave scholarships and had VERY low academic standards to exceed. I think chiefly of Grand Valley State and Saginaw Valley State in Michigan. Absolutely different scenario.
So...enough with defending Carlson by comparing him to Horne's first 3 seasons! Not to mention the campus was totally ugly then with no new buildings since early 80s when he coached. Place was hurting across the board while Homer D.'s crew also lost big.
Nothing you've said makes any sense. If "ugly campus" had anything to do with football success then OSU would be in the MAC.
And actually, you've defended Horne's first 3 seasons. Playing GVSU (a 91-0 loss in 1989; 55-0 in 1990) and SVSU (46-14 in 1990; 54-14 in 1991) didn't make the numbers look good. How is that really any different from facing the YSUs and Duquesnes and WIUs?
I'd be happy to compare Horne's first 3 years in the Pioneer if you'd like.
Dude, the point is that there has been no true improvement. If you want stats, Valpo will move up in the Sagarin rating from year 1 to year 3 inder Dale Carlson from #246 to #245. After 3 years, is that significant improvement? Has the enthusiasm for football grown after 3 years?
To compare, Bill Clinton in 1992 had better justification when he said he was a great education governor in Arkansas. Their national ranking under Clinton as governor went from #50 to #49.
However, this is not all Carlson. Valpo is just not committed to successful football.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 13, 2012, 12:05:12 PMHowever, this is not all Carlson. Valpo is just not committed to successful football.
DING DING DING we have a winner.
So why pretend like changing the main deck chair on this Titanic will do anything?
See, we can agree on something!! So we know and define the common problem, so what is the solution?
On the other hand, Lane Kiffin may be available in a couple of weeks, as is Chizik, Petrino, Ditka, etc. Imagine da Coach with a Don Tomas cigar in his mouth wearing gold blazer on the Brown Field sidelines, providing ash burns on the pro turf. He would have Jake Hudson run up the middle 50 times a game!
In at least 52.3% seriousness, VU needs the Lutheran Jeff Jagodzinski.
If the name sounds familiar, it's because he was the last good coach BC ever had. What's he doing now? Assisting Ave Maria University with its program, now in its second season. Seriously.
http://aveherald.com/news/ave-maria-news/1200-gyrenes-benefit-from-veteran-college-and-nfl-coach-jagodzinski.html (http://aveherald.com/news/ave-maria-news/1200-gyrenes-benefit-from-veteran-college-and-nfl-coach-jagodzinski.html)
Obviously there are fewer Lutherans running around, but couldn't someone be persuaded? Or perhaps a good generic Christian, like the Drews, could be persuaded?
Ok.....list Horne's first 3 seasons in the Pioneer. That would be a better comparison.
I MAY be wrong since I didn't study this stuff much. But didn't Valpo play in an entire D-2 conference in '89 to '91. The two Michigans just happened to be the most dominant of many tough D-2 teams in it? Maybe I am mistaken on that point.
Pioneer League website shows that the league began play in 1993.
Valpo's records under Horne in 1993, 1994, and 1995 were 5-5, 7-3, and 5-5.
Sick of the excuses that VU "commitment to football" is the issue. The two titles won by Horne even preceded the new turf, softball field and tennis courts. If anything, recruiting should be easier now with a better campus library, union etc.
In all truth, Adams had his few early wins using Horne's players. Carlson stunk it up using Adams' players for two years. Year 3 was time to win using his own players. One win over Campbell again? From a distance I think he uses too much smoke and mirrors offense. Just get 'er done.
There is really no point in comparing stats between Horne, Adams and Carlson in my opinion. A statement needs to be made that horrific coaching is not going to be tolerated. The list of excuses is long and redundant. Too many coordinators and assistants in just three years have proven Carlson's lack of leadership ability. Stupid play calling (biggest example is Hutson having just 8 carries the week after a huge day running the ball) has killed momentum over and over again. I cannot stand to hear the spin put on the latest loss anymore. We played hard for four quarters! Really, that took them three years to accomplish? Not something to be proud of! If it took you three years to coach that, we have bigger problems.
I sincerely hope that Carlson's "smoke and mirrors" excuses and promises of PFL Championships coming soon to Valpo are not taken seriously by the administration. My guess is that we will see the fallout of his own players having had enough soon. If he stays, we can look forward to a FR heavy roster next season and more of the same rhetoric about the young team not knowing how to finish plays, games, etc. Should be packing up his office now!
If Carlson's contract is a multi-year contract, and my guess is that it is, he's not going anywhere. You don't offer a coach who beat out over 100 candidates three years ago an "at will" contract to turn things around. The risk would have been too great then for Carlson to accept. It doesn't make sense for VU to pull the trigger now on a contract that I am assuming has some kind of liquidated damage or "buy out" provision attached to it. Valpo is not competing for BCS dollars. The sense of urgency for the AD to remove a coach in a situation like this is therefore minimal. There has been no off field breach of player integrity during Carlson's management of the program, so the only thing that remains is a look at wins and losses. That is not enough to act on the contract now. If he was given five years, then he'll get five years, period and end of story IMO—if only to minimize the potential for litigation and/or damages as a result of a breach due to an early dismissal, or to avoid the payment of a "buy out".
Capice?
I am guessing you are right about the result of all of this.
Also we should just stop with the excuses we keep making for Carlson and the comparisons to prior coaches.
Al Davis: "Just win baby"
My take on the options:
(1) Status quo until the contract terms (4-5 years) are satisfied. Impact: Continuous downward spiral, lessening quality of recruits for 13 and 14 due to abysmal record. Loss of some transfers and kids who opt out. :snore:
(2) Retain HFC and increase budget and upgrade facilities to some measure; require emphasis on JC and transfers to bolster lineup; set firm, measurable achievement goals for the 2013 team; mandate review again at close of 2013 season. Impact: Eliminate all excuses for non-performance.
(3) Fire HFC immediately after season ends. Impact: Eat remaining years of the contract or negotiate buy-out. Hire new coach within 30 days or lose recruiting class. Then, start all over again with new system, new staff. To lure new coach, increase budget and upgrade facilities to some measure.
(4) Go through prolonged evaluation and then fire HFC into 2013. Impact: Eat remaining years of the contract or negotiate buy-out. Hire new coach and staff but lose recruiting class. Then, start all over again with new system, new staff. To lure new coach, increase budget and upgrade facilities to some measure but too late to attract talented kids or impact 2013 season. :crazy:
:twocents: PREDICTION: What's behind door #1 Johnny?
He's staying...that's just the way it is. His contract will be honored, and when it's over, the administration will make an evaluation at that time. This is rock bottom. Can the program honestly get worse? Keep him for 10 more years, it's got nowhere to go but up. They've got 2 wins in 3 years. Granted, without Campbell they've be creeping up on Prairie View A&M status, but are they really that far off anyway?
Expect more of the same rhetoric and catch phrases in the next few years, but the end results will be the same. ???
this sounds like the South Central Louisiana State University Mud Dogs until Bobby Boucher saved the day
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CRgxs5OK7IM/TTnWMj-YZuI/AAAAAAAAADw/hN81R_W34Fk/s1600/waterboy_2.jpg)
Apostle, take same picture, and put "WE SUCK AGAIN" on it.
I keep seeing "VU isn't truly committed to football". Well its about time they start committing to football and start getting serious. Every team in the athletics at VU is pretty competitive and it looks like our women's basketball team will be pretty solid this year with a new coach. Then there's the football team.....getting blown out the majority of their games :-[ Our basketball team is riding high right now, just playing on ESPN in the 24 Hour Tip-off Marathon while our football team is enjoying winning one game a year. Changes need to be made. I'm sorry but going 2-30 in three years (most likely 2-31 after Morehead State) is atrocious! I know we don't have the best talent, we are never going to have tons of talent but there is a enough talent to win 3 or 4 games a year and not get blown out pretty much every game. There is no progress what so ever, 2 wins in 3 years!? That's progress!? Please.
From all the information on this topic, I have to conclude that if VU is not truly commited to football, then they need to get out of that sport. It can be attributed to Carlson, and that is convenient to say, but the heavy hitter is that VU should get rid of football and take a different direction in athletics. Perhaps more in soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc. Or keep more focus on basketball - many schools are that way - Creighton, St. John's, Marquette, Gonzaga, St. Louis, St. Mary's, etc. and they are just fine.
I know this is upsetting, but I am objectively taking all this in and coming to this conclusion. I am trying to understand why VU should have football in the situation they are in. It doesn't make sense.
I'm not close to the football program at all. Obviously, the W's and points for and against have not improved over last year. The AD and his staff are in a much better position to determine if the football program has made improvements over the last three years, especially in areas away from the field. Based on Carlson's previous record, the number of Fr/So on the two deep, and the VU's history of sticking with Horne after his first three years, I'm for giving Carlson another year or two. The PFL will have two new coaches and two new teams (football programs built from scratch), so the road should be primed for VU success the next few years.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 15, 2012, 11:33:15 AMFrom all the information on this topic, I have to conclude that if VU is not truly commited to football, then they need to get out of that sport.
setshot? is that you? ;)
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 15, 2012, 11:33:15 AM
From all the information on this topic, I have to conclude that if VU is not truly commited to football, then they need to get out of that sport. It can be attributed to Carlson, and that is convenient to say, but the heavy hitter is that VU should get rid of football and take a different direction in athletics. Perhaps more in soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc. Or keep more focus on basketball - many schools are that way - Creighton, St. John's, Marquette, Gonzaga, St. Louis, St. Mary's, etc. and they are just fine.
I know this is upsetting, but I am objectively taking all this in and coming to this conclusion. I am trying to understand why VU should have football in the situation they are in. It doesn't make sense.
It appears that the "get rid of football" movement has gained a little more popularity on the board, but those in support of that action really have not thought this through. Having been on an auxiliary board at the University of Evansville I can tell you that many people there wish the decision to drop football would have never taken place in 1997. This decision had a much larger ripple effect then anticipated, fundraising was severely hampered and many disgruntled football alumni and current players spoke ill of the way things were handled by the administration. Even student admissions was affected by a perception that the school was having money problems and was in decline. Just last month an "Athletic Leadership Team" consisting of Aces football alums, athletic department staff and faculty worked to make a report alongside experts from Carr Sports Associates, a consulting firm run by former University of Houston Athletic Director Bill Carr to the university trustees asking for a decision concerning bringing football back to UE. They were turned down because of the estimated 10 million dollar price tag associated with restarting the program. The wound still festers. If anyone on this board thinks that shutting down the program would be a simple solution contained solely in the athletic department they are being extremely naive.
We hired a coach with a good track record of building programs. I doubt that he has forgotten how to coach. Perhaps there are external forces that have delayed the rebuilding process, I DON"T KNOW. If his contract is for 5 years then I say give him the full 5 years.
well said Fort Wayne!
Quote from: FWalum on November 15, 2012, 02:31:13 PM
It appears that the "get rid of football" movement has gained a little more popularity on the board, but those in support of that action really have not thought this through. Having been on an auxiliary board at the University of Evansville I can tell you that many people there wish the decision to drop football would have never taken place in 1997. This decision had a much larger ripple effect then anticipated, fundraising was severely hampered and many disgruntled football alumni and current players spoke ill of the way things were handled by the administration. Even student admissions was affected by a perception that the school was having money problems and was in decline. Just last month an "Athletic Leadership Team" consisting of Aces football alums, athletic department staff and faculty worked to make a report alongside experts from Carr Sports Associates, a consulting firm run by former University of Houston Athletic Director Bill Carr to the university trustees asking for a decision concerning bringing football back to UE. They were turned down because of the estimated 10 million dollar price tag associated with restarting the program. The wound still festers. If anyone on this board thinks that shutting down the program would be a simple solution contained solely in the athletic department they are being extremely naive.
We hired a coach with a good track record of building programs. I doubt that he has forgotten how to coach. Perhaps there are external forces that have delayed the rebuilding process, I DON"T KNOW. If his contract is for 5 years then I say give him the full 5 years.
FW, I completely agree about dropping football. Bad football is better than no football everyday of the week. I keep waiting for RLH to chime in on this topic as he always did.
Now on to the coach forgetting how to coach.....you wouldn't think so but after watching the product you have to start to wonder. The progress we have made, whatever the factors or reason, in 3 years is embarrassing small.
Why did Evansville get rid of football? Was it finances? Lack of interest?
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/08/08c01beard-col/?printer=1/ (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/08/08c01beard-col/?printer=1/)
HISTORY MAN ... HE DROPPETH THE HISTORY
Quote from: IndyValpo on November 15, 2012, 03:16:51 PMNow on to the coach forgetting how to coach.....you wouldn't think so but after watching the product you have to start to wonder. The progress we have made, whatever the factors or reason, in 3 years is embarrassing small.
I would agree that based upon Coach Carlson's history this is not what I would have expected, but I am willing to look at the history and give him the benefit of the doubt
for now.
Quote from: FWalum on November 15, 2012, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on November 15, 2012, 03:16:51 PMNow on to the coach forgetting how to coach.....you wouldn't think so but after watching the product you have to start to wonder. The progress we have made, whatever the factors or reason, in 3 years is embarrassing small.
I would agree that based upon Coach Carlson's history this is not what I would have expected, but I am willing to look at the history and give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
His track record is with starting programs, not turning them around. Big difference. I'm not saying he can't coach (I don't agree with his methods, but that's a topic for a different day.) but this project is much different than forming a new team.
Guys, I am just basing my conclusion in an objective manner. I took a systematic approach, looked at the program and their stakeholders to see where football fits in at Valpo to determine the right path. I read through the Evansville situation and I have to wonder the biasness of the article. Note that there were people asking to bring football back, with a past where they were losing significant funds and no one was going to the games. UE looks like they are doing just fine. Also, a few hundred grand of donations at this day and age is a drop in the bucket, considering endowment in the 100's of millions.
If football stays, there must be significant changes, as the path is going into a black hole. Again, has there been improvement after 3 years to keep the same system?
Stop with the drop football stuff...And stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios). If you haven't figured out that a mistake was made in the hiring of Carlson three years ago , well then you have not been watching this team. 2-31 !!!!! Are you kidding me. Some of you want to give this coach 2 more years? Please!
Laura,
I was never dissing the players abilities.
Also, why should a discussion of having football at Valpo be off limits? You need to look at this holistically to see the effect football has on VU's vision. If there is no committment from the university for football and very low interest from students and alums, then how do you justify having a program?
Do it right or try to do it right, or don't do it at all.
Quote from: laura on November 15, 2012, 09:22:28 PM
Stop with the drop football stuff...And stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios). If you haven't figured out that a mistake was made in the hiring of Carlson three years ago , well then you have not been watching this team. 2-31 !!!!! Are you kidding me. Some of you want to give this coach 2 more years? Please!
Keep him for the length of the contract. It's just not worth it for a non scholarship football program. Really if the same thing continues for another few years, would the program be any worse? Why spend the money?
Dropping football would mean 100 less male students paying their way...VU won't drop football for that reason alone.
In terms of firing Coach Carlson before his contract is out, does Mark LaBarbara have the funds to pay for a new head coach for five years, plus two years of the Dale Carlson buyout? People throughout the state of Illinois are calling for Tim Beckman's head after one season, but Illinois isn't going to fire him because they are already in deep in buyouts for Ron Zook, Bruce Weber, and Jonette Law (Women's Basketball). Also, is Valpo still paying Keith Freeman the final years of his contract, while he assists Wright State basketball, or was his contract done when he was relieved? Does it make sense for Valpo to be paying for two coaches who aren't working here now because they were let go, when our athletic funds aren't the same as Illinois and other BCS schools that are deep in athletic debt because of the number of buyouts they've taken on??
So the main reason Valpo has football is to bring in 100 male students a year. Thus, $4M a year into the kitty. This makes some sense! It is used basically to bring in cash.
For those students forking out cash for football, perhaps it would be reasonable to provide a football staff that has stability and knows what they are doing.
usc, if we're only providing football to bring in 100 more male students to campus, who cares who is coaching at the games? Bill Veeck allowed fans to determine who started games one season in baseball, why not let the fans decide who are our 22 starters and gets to play on special teams for each game, or let the fans call the plays? Football is mostly there to help with income and Title IX anyway.
Not a bad idea to let the fans pick the players and call the plays next year until the 5 years runs out.
I agree we should NOT drop football.
And i agree that restoring a good program is an uphill climb. We need a FCS version of Bill Snyder.
But it CAN be done. We are so close to CHICAGO. Just get coach with some charisma and Chicago creds and network yourself to some good pipeline high schools. When you are non-scholarship, I think you recruit kids in groups or two or three. Then they can bring the friendships. They aren't looking to be pros or get university town endorsement deals.
I don't know if the resume with Ohio Dominican Republic W-L record is optimal.
A recent article in the Denver Post suggests firing of coach's doesn't always change things - Title CU-led study: Firing head football coach doesn't change much
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_21998736/cu-led-study-firing-head-football-coach-doesnt (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_21998736/cu-led-study-firing-head-football-coach-doesnt)
I don't think VU has the alumni support to "buy out" current coaching contracts to hire a new coach, as at some larger Universities. This year's team has made slight improvements in points for and against, compared to last year. Next year they will need to win 4-5 games, and be in 2-3 other games in the fourth quarter, or they will not be showing fourth year improvement. :twocents:
it would be interesting to hear from former players...what are their thoughts of the football program?Did they feel that it was used as just a source of bringing male students on campus or was there some genuine interest in winning?
As of now we can be assured of another loss tomorrow.we will have 2 wins against the worst team in football the last 3 years...not good
Moving forward if DC is still the coach maybe there are some changes he can make in other areas of the team...better defensive schemes...need to really work on special teams...alot
if he is relieved of his duties what do they look for in their next coach?
Not that we would expect it, but it would be interesting to see how much a buyout would cost, and analyze the benefit itn the long run.
Quote from: slickdaddy on November 16, 2012, 07:28:32 PM
it would be interesting to hear from former players...what are their thoughts of the football program?Did they feel that it was used as just a source of bringing male students on campus or was there some genuine interest in winning?
As of now we can be assured of another loss tomorrow.we will have 2 wins against the worst team in football the last 3 years...not good
Moving forward if DC is still the coach maybe there are some changes he can make in other areas of the team...better defensive schemes...need to really work on special teams...alot
if he is relieved of his duties what do they look for in their next coach?
I think the head coach and the players are doing what they can to try to win games. Of that I have no doubt. Since I can't read thoughts, I really can't tell what the AD or the administration are thinking, but I have a guess.
I am sure the HC is doing his best with this team. But like in business and life, sometimes your best is not good enough.
Quote from: laura on November 15, 2012, 09:22:28 PMAnd stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios).
Since Laura likes bios, maybe we should have hired this guy...
At School X, Coach began the program from scratch prior to the 2004 season. He led his team to an undefeated regular season in 2007 and a Mid-States Football Association-Mideast League championship. His team's offense led all of college football averaging more than 50 points per game, while leading NAIA with more than 550 yards of total offense in that same season.
In six years at School X, he produced five All-Americans, seven Academic All-Americans, and more than 90 All-Conference performers. In 2009 he was named the NAIA Independent Coach of the Year while earning MSFA-Mideast League Coach of the Year honors in 2007. He also earned American Football Coaches Association Region II and American Football Monthly/Schutt Sports NAIA National Coach of the Year honors in 2007.
Prior to his stint at School X, Coach spent eight seasons as the head football coach at School Y. There he also began the intercollegiate football program, leading the school to 11 victories in 1998. That same season he led that team to the NAIA semifinals and a number three ranking nationally in the final NAIA poll. He also led School Y to the Conference championship in 2001, the same season he was named the league's Coach of the Year.
What do you think?
Bios mean absolutely nothing if based on HS sports when relating to college. It all depends on where you play (state/city/division) and who against in HS. I could have thrown no-hitters against the small 1A or 2A schools in HS, but we were 4A and played only 4A and 5A programs with several players of top 25 college talent, so you end up with an ERA that is more normal.
this offensive scheme is not the answer.We need to run the ball.Have hutson and ali el 1-2 punch running.When we keep going with this quick hit pass offense and it does not work we give the other team the ball too quickly,and we cannot keep up with this team score for score
Quote from: slickdaddy on November 17, 2012, 12:57:13 PM
this offensive scheme is not the answer.We need to run the ball.Have hutson and ali el 1-2 punch running.When we keep going with this quick hit pass offense and it does not work we give the other team the ball too quickly,and we cannot keep up with this team score for score
Just wait till he gets players to run his system, then you'll see....oh wait that should have happened already.
this sounds a whole lot like Northwestern in the late 70's and early 80's when they 0-11, 0-10-1 and 1-10 seasons. John Pont was the head coach and athletic director, and I remember his post-games quotes..."we are inconsistent on offense, we were inconsistent, but we looked great getting that touchdown in the fourth quarter! (after being behind 42-0 or scores like that - to Minnesota and Purdue, not Michigan and Ohio State)
Now you hear Carlson, we are inconsistent, we need to hit the weight room, we need to learn form this,etc. Pont and Venturi all over again. The Sagarin impovement is going from #246, dead last for 2 years to #245. That is not good.
Wow, this is going to be an interesting 2 weeks in the ARC and Heritage Hall (USC) offices. Could be seeing a clean sweep to start fresh and clean out the rot.
Quote from: FWalum on November 17, 2012, 12:11:57 PMQuote from: laura on November 15, 2012, 09:22:28 PMAnd stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios).
Since Laura likes bios, maybe we should have hired this guy... At School X, Coach began the program from scratch prior to the 2004 season. He led his team to an undefeated regular season in 2007 and a Mid-States Football Association-Mideast League championship. His team's offense led all of college football averaging more than 50 points per game, while leading NAIA with more than 550 yards of total offense in that same season. In six years at School X, he produced five All-Americans, seven Academic All-Americans, and more than 90 All-Conference performers. In 2009 he was named the NAIA Independent Coach of the Year while earning MSFA-Mideast League Coach of the Year honors in 2007. He also earned American Football Coaches Association Region II and American Football Monthly/Schutt Sports NAIA National Coach of the Year honors in 2007. Prior to his stint at School X, Coach spent eight seasons as the head football coach at School Y. There he also began the intercollegiate football program, leading the school to 11 victories in 1998. That same season he led that team to the NAIA semifinals and a number three ranking nationally in the final NAIA poll. He also led School Y to the Conference championship in 2001, the same season he was named the league's Coach of the Year. What do you think?
I get your point FWalum, very well put. The problem is not just the coaching, but perhaps this coching position is like putting a square peg in a round hole, i.e., it was just not a good job fit. I am sure Carlson has personal positive qualities but it may not be the right job for him. You see the same type of issue in business every day.
USC4Valpo, this is part of your quote from the Morehead thread:
"Students forking out $40K to play football deserve better."
You make a very valid point. There is an implied compact between Valpo and every student. The student pays his/her fees and in return the university promises, to the best of its ability, to provide the best educational value for those fees. In the case of non-scholarship football, these students have been recruited, with stated and implied promises, to come to Valpo to get that education, but also to play football and represent the university to the public. A chemistry major will never publicly represent the university on such a prominent platform as a Saturday afternoon football game where the final score is broadcast in the national media. Those FB players are paying handsomely for that opportunity, and likewise, the university is obligated to ensure that, in this additional arena outside the classroom, they provide the best value for the fees collected. Let's go back to that chemistry student. If a chemistry instructor hired three years ago to improve the academic environment in that discipline actually winds up taking that department into further decline in quantum leaps, would the university give him/her tenure? I doubt that person would be around longer than the minimum three years. The academic reputation would be tarnished.
VULB#62, your analysis was bang on and objective without the emotional fluff.
Valparaiso University has great people and is a wonderful university. They need to do the right thing to ensure a quality experience for all. A serious change to improve football is imperative, and if a change does not occur then the program should be scrapped.
I hate to see Valpo scrap football, but maintaining the status quo is embarrassing and needs to be changed now. 3 years of this is not promising and not progress.
FROM THE AP on ESPN.COM
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Derek Dooley is out [immediately] at Tennessee.
The university announced the anticipated firing Sunday after Dooley posted the storied program's longest run of consecutive losing seasons [2010, 2011 and 2012.... hmmmmm] in over a century.
Dooley, 44, had a 15-21 record that included an 0-15 mark against Top 25 teams. Dooley was 4-19 in Southeastern Conference competition during his three-year tenure and had lost 14 of his last 15 league games. .....Dooley had four years left on his contract, which includes a $5 million buyout. ....Tennessee (4-7, 0-7 SEC) must beat Kentucky on Saturday to avoid going winless in SEC play for the first time in school history. . .......Tennessee's 41-18 loss to Vanderbilt on Saturday guaranteed the Volunteers their third consecutive losing season, which marks the first time they have finished below .500 in three straight years since 1909-11.
Granted the PFL is not the SEC and the PFL is not in BCS scholarship fantasyland, but here is an illustration of one school stopping the bleeding before there is no blood left. Both Davidson and Campbell did the same only even earlier this season. :twocents:
62,
USC is in a similar situation, and there are many who want Kiffin out. His personality has not been ideal, and his coaching below par. However, he also has been coaching under strict NCAA sanctions, and he apparantly has a great recruiting class coming up.
Auburn is in a similar position with Chizik, despite buying a national title 2 years ago.
Quote from: FWalum on November 17, 2012, 12:11:57 PM
Quote from: laura on November 15, 2012, 09:22:28 PMAnd stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios).
Since Laura likes bios, maybe we should have hired this guy...
At School X, Coach began the program from scratch prior to the 2004 season. He led his team to an undefeated regular season in 2007 and a Mid-States Football Association-Mideast League championship. His team's offense led all of college football averaging more than 50 points per game, while leading NAIA with more than 550 yards of total offense in that same season.
In six years at School X, he produced five All-Americans, seven Academic All-Americans, and more than 90 All-Conference performers. In 2009 he was named the NAIA Independent Coach of the Year while earning MSFA-Mideast League Coach of the Year honors in 2007. He also earned American Football Coaches Association Region II and American Football Monthly/Schutt Sports NAIA National Coach of the Year honors in 2007.
Prior to his stint at School X, Coach spent eight seasons as the head football coach at School Y. There he also began the intercollegiate football program, leading the school to 11 victories in 1998. That same season he led that team to the NAIA semifinals and a number three ranking nationally in the final NAIA poll. He also led School Y to the Conference championship in 2001, the same season he was named the league's Coach of the Year.
What do you think?
You know when games begin to be played on paper, then Carlson is the man. I don't think anyone here would argue that on paper he was a good hire. Actual results wise he has been a disaster and needs to be removed.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 18, 2012, 01:20:48 PM
FROM THE AP on ESPN.COM
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Derek Dooley is out [immediately] at Tennessee.
The university announced the anticipated firing Sunday after Dooley posted the storied program's longest run of consecutive losing seasons [2010, 2011 and 2012.... hmmmmm] in over a century.
Dooley, 44, had a 15-21 record that included an 0-15 mark against Top 25 teams. Dooley was 4-19 in Southeastern Conference competition during his three-year tenure and had lost 14 of his last 15 league games. .....Dooley had four years left on his contract, which includes a $5 million buyout. ....Tennessee (4-7, 0-7 SEC) must beat Kentucky on Saturday to avoid going winless in SEC play for the first time in school history. . .......Tennessee's 41-18 loss to Vanderbilt on Saturday guaranteed the Volunteers their third consecutive losing season, which marks the first time they have finished below .500 in three straight years since 1909-11.
Granted the PFL is not the SEC and the PFL is not in BCS scholarship fantasyland, but here is an illustration of one school stopping the bleeding before there is no blood left. Both Davidson and Campbell did the same only even earlier this season. :twocents:
I know where you are going with this, and I have to say I agree. However comparing Tennessee football vs. Valpo football is akin to comparing crossing the street in your neighborhood with going to the moon. First and foremost, Valpo players must attend class. They don't bother with that at UT. Also, the expectations are slightly different there than at Valpo. They are dreaming of national titles, and Valpos dreaming of being .500. Beyond that, UT has a brand in their football program that they want to protect, and whatever they need to do to protect that brand will be done. There a lot more money and influence in big time SEC football than non scholarship 1-AA football.
Again I get your point, but Valpos much closer to IU VS. UT.
Quote from: IndyValpo on November 18, 2012, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: FWalum on November 17, 2012, 12:11:57 PM
Quote from: laura on November 15, 2012, 09:22:28 PMAnd stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios).
Since Laura likes bios, maybe we should have hired this guy...
At School X, Coach began the program from scratch prior to the 2004 season. He led his team to an undefeated regular season in 2007 and a Mid-States Football Association-Mideast League championship. His team's offense led all of college football averaging more than 50 points per game, while leading NAIA with more than 550 yards of total offense in that same season.
In six years at School X, he produced five All-Americans, seven Academic All-Americans, and more than 90 All-Conference performers. In 2009 he was named the NAIA Independent Coach of the Year while earning MSFA-Mideast League Coach of the Year honors in 2007. He also earned American Football Coaches Association Region II and American Football Monthly/Schutt Sports NAIA National Coach of the Year honors in 2007.
Prior to his stint at School X, Coach spent eight seasons as the head football coach at School Y. There he also began the intercollegiate football program, leading the school to 11 victories in 1998. That same season he led that team to the NAIA semifinals and a number three ranking nationally in the final NAIA poll. He also led School Y to the Conference championship in 2001, the same season he was named the league's Coach of the Year.
What do you think?
You know when games begin to be played on paper, then Carlson is the man. I don't think anyone here would argue that on paper he was a good hire. Actual results wise he has been a disaster and needs to be removed.
I would suggest that in order to receive those awards he didn't just coach those teams on paper. I also realize that not every coach is suited for every situation just not sure the amateur "coaches" are the best judges of our situation.
So who would be ideal to make this decision? I also think the university should listen to the alumni base. I may also be an "amateur coach" but I do know that 3 years with a 2-31 record is an unsatisfactory review where an employee should be replaced.
Anybody here know how long his contract is?
If it's just speculation, then whatever, but if someone with insider info knows how long, and/or buyout details...that would go a long way to knowing.
clearly performance doesn't merit keeping him, but other factor$ might be at play...
could be worse: we could have jerry kill:
http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/ (http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 18, 2012, 08:47:19 PM
Anybody here know how long his contract is?
If it's just speculation, then whatever, but if someone with insider info knows how long, and/or buyout details...that would go a long way to knowing.
clearly performance doesn't merit keeping him, but other factor$ might be at play...
could be worse: we could have jerry kill:
http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/ (http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/)
Where in the heck did you find that? As a long time "gopher" I was there when he was hired from Northern Illinois. Not saying that Coach Carlson is anything like Kill, it may be the case however where his coaching techniques just don't match with today's kids. I certainly don't know...
Quote from: vu72 on November 18, 2012, 09:13:44 PMWhere in the heck did you find that?
Over at MGoBlog they are having a good time deconstructing it.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 18, 2012, 08:47:19 PM
Anybody here know how long his contract is?
If it's just speculation, then whatever, but if someone with insider info knows how long, and/or buyout details...that would go a long way to knowing.
clearly performance doesn't merit keeping him, but other factor$ might be at play...
could be worse: we could have jerry kill:
http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/ (http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/)
Wow. Interesting read.
Quote from: covufan on November 18, 2012, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 18, 2012, 08:47:19 PM
Anybody here know how long his contract is?
If it's just speculation, then whatever, but if someone with insider info knows how long, and/or buyout details...that would go a long way to knowing.
clearly performance doesn't merit keeping him, but other factor$ might be at play...
could be worse: we could have jerry kill:
http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/ (http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/)
Wow. Interesting read.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8650223/minnesota-gophers-aj-barker-quits-alleges-mistreatment-jerry-kill (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8650223/minnesota-gophers-aj-barker-quits-alleges-mistreatment-jerry-kill)
This was a very interesting read. I would like to hear the other side of ther story. This is sounding similar to the Mike Leach situation at Texas Tech with Craig James' son.
Here's another one . This one is on Brian Kelly and #1 ND (and #1 in graduation rate).
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--brian-kelly-showing-notre-dame-can-compete-for-national-titles-and-graduate-players-18140909.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--brian-kelly-showing-notre-dame-can-compete-for-national-titles-and-graduate-players-18140909.html)
"Coaching. Talent. Recruiting. Facilities. Media. Fan passion."
Again it's the fantasy world of of the BCS, but the concepts still apply at whatever level you're at.
The link was sent to me by a fellow former VU FB player.
for those asking, i believe carlson's contract was for 5 years. but i'm drawing on a memory from over 3 years ago, so it may have corrupted by now.
I understand that Carlson's contract may be for 5 years, does that imply that we should stick with him for another 2 years ? I say no way. Give him a job at the union or as a professor, but the insanity here has to stop.
Two questions: what is our source that this is a 5-year deal (just a refresher), and what precedent do we have for dropping a coach before the end of his/her contract?
I was actually looking for an answer for the former on the Times website and found this piece when Dale was hired. http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-former-players-believe-in-vu-s-carlson/article_cf9f46b1-db43-5e76-9e8a-fab229ef19cd.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-former-players-believe-in-vu-s-carlson/article_cf9f46b1-db43-5e76-9e8a-fab229ef19cd.html) It was a piece where Peters talked to Dale's players at his previous schools to guess how well he might do at VU. The quote below is just a quick excerpt, but I found it very apropos.
Quote"He's got his work cut out for him," (Portage product and former Tri-State QB under Carlson) Wellman said. "But within two, three years, he'll have it where he wants to be. He doesn't make any guarantees. He just tells you that if you work hard and do what you're supposed to do, you'll be successful. VU will never go into a game next year that it's not prepared for."
Quote from: KL31NY on November 19, 2012, 10:40:51 AM
Two questions: what is our source that this is a 5-year deal (just a refresher), and what precedent do we have for dropping a coach before the end of his/her contract?
I was actually looking for an answer for the former on the Times website and found this piece when Dale was hired. http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-former-players-believe-in-vu-s-carlson/article_cf9f46b1-db43-5e76-9e8a-fab229ef19cd.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-former-players-believe-in-vu-s-carlson/article_cf9f46b1-db43-5e76-9e8a-fab229ef19cd.html) It was a piece where Peters talked to Dale's players at his previous schools to guess how well he might do at VU. The quote below is just a quick excerpt, but I found it very apropos.
Quote"He's got his work cut out for him," (Portage product and former Tri-State QB under Carlson) Wellman said. "But within two, three years, he'll have it where he wants to be. He doesn't make any guarantees. He just tells you that if you work hard and do what you're supposed to do, you'll be successful. VU will never go into a game next year that it's not prepared for."
i was going on memory based on what was reported when he was hired.
just pulled this off the old board:
QuoteCarlson is signed on for at least five years.
last post on the page for anyone who's interested.
http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=allsports&action=display&thread=4125&page=3 (http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=allsports&action=display&thread=4125&page=3)
Quote from: vuweathernerd on November 19, 2012, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: KL31NY on November 19, 2012, 10:40:51 AM
Two questions: what is our source that this is a 5-year deal (just a refresher), and what precedent do we have for dropping a coach before the end of his/her contract?
I was actually looking for an answer for the former on the Times website and found this piece when Dale was hired. http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-former-players-believe-in-vu-s-carlson/article_cf9f46b1-db43-5e76-9e8a-fab229ef19cd.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-former-players-believe-in-vu-s-carlson/article_cf9f46b1-db43-5e76-9e8a-fab229ef19cd.html) It was a piece where Peters talked to Dale's players at his previous schools to guess how well he might do at VU. The quote below is just a quick excerpt, but I found it very apropos.
Quote"He's got his work cut out for him," (Portage product and former Tri-State QB under Carlson) Wellman said. "But within two, three years, he'll have it where he wants to be. He doesn't make any guarantees. He just tells you that if you work hard and do what you're supposed to do, you'll be successful. VU will never go into a game next year that it's not prepared for."
i was going on memory based on what was reported when he was hired.
just pulled this off the old board: QuoteCarlson is signed on for at least five years.
last post on the page for anyone who's interested.
http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=allsports&action=display&thread=4125&page=3 (http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=allsports&action=display&thread=4125&page=3)
Man, there was so much hope and excitement in that thread...
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 19, 2012, 12:36:02 PM
Man, there was so much hope and excitement in that thread...
there really was, wasn't there? amazing how things have (not) changed in that time with football...
Thanks, weathernerd, for the "five year" source.
What's our schedule gonna look like for next season? I know the 2012 season only just ended, but I'm curious how many "winnable" games we're gonna try to set up for. After a couple years of trying, I'm not up for the experience of going to a place like YSU to get drilled again. Side note: YSU did not even make the FCS playoffs despite a 7-4 record, win over Pitt, and a strong conference to come out of (Missouri Valley Football Conference)
Quote from: vuweathernerd on November 19, 2012, 12:49:39 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 19, 2012, 12:36:02 PM
Man, there was so much hope and excitement in that thread...
there really was, wasn't there? amazing how things have (not) changed in that time with football...
Thanks for posting the link to the old FanZone. I went back and read all the postings and have to agree on the expressed hope and excitement. I scraped this from the posted Jan 16, 2010 Mutka article that was posted there:
"Carlson is signed on for at least five years. Will it take that long to reverse a program which has won only 15 games since 2005?
Carlson pointed out that Pioneer Football League rival Butler went from doormat to conference champion over the last three years. He also included VU's recent history, which included going from 1-10 in 2002 to PFL champion the following year.
"I can't put a time frame on it," he said. "We're going to get it turned around. We're going to be competitive pretty quickly." Saying all the right things and actually doing them, we now learn, are two different animals. :(
Here's another quote I found interesting from the story in Jan. 2010 when Coach Carlson was hired:
"The president (Mark Heckler) made it clear we don't want to have a football program just to have a football program," Carlson said. "They want to compete at the highest level, to take it to that point."
I guess not only Carlson was trying to say all the correct things.
Didn't the A.D. also make statements about his goals for the unit?
I might recall wrong, but his football goals were more modest than for other sports. BUT....I think it was something l like CONTEND at least every 3 years for a conference title...... Kind of underwhelming right off the bat. Maybe somebody can find an old press release.
Still the 3 years is up. Not even close to contending. Hope A.D. and Pres. were serious.
This previsou quotes actually have some comedic value in it. Let's see if Heckler can actually "walk the walk."
I hear Morehead States Coach is available. They beat us by 52 points last Saturday, Wonder if he would come to Northern Indiana?
Quote from: willy on November 20, 2012, 03:46:29 PM
I hear Morehead States Coach is available. They beat us by 52 points last Saturday, Wonder if he would come to Northern Indiana?
Here is the text of the release from the MSU Eagles web site:
MOREHEAD, Ky. -- Morehead State Director of Athletics Brian Hutchinson has announced that Head Football Coach Matt Ballard's contract will not be renewed after it expires in December. Ballard served as head coach of the Eagles for 19 seasons and an assistant for four additional years.
"It is very important to me that we express our gratitude for Coach Ballard's efforts on behalf of our program for over two decades," Hutchinson said. "He inherited a program that was in shambles, and had an opportunity to coach and lead several hundred young men over the years. I am grateful to him for his dedicated service to our university."
Morehead State posted a 102-105 record in Ballard's time as its head coach. The Eagles finished the 2012 campaign 4-7 overall and 3-5 in the Pioneer Football League.
"We have not made continual progress on the football field," Hutchinson added. "The program is not performing up to the expectations we have for it. Over the years, we have identified obstacles to our success and have been diligent in addressing them. The results have been consistent for a few seasons now, and it is time to change leadership."
A national search for Ballard's replacement will begin immediately.Here's the link:
http://www.msueagles.com/news/2012/11/20/FB_1120124512.aspx?path=football (http://www.msueagles.com/news/2012/11/20/FB_1120124512.aspx?path=football)
Right now we'd kill for those numbers. That makes 3 out of the bottom 4 HFCs goners. Add 2 new ones at Mercer and Stetson and that's almost half the conference starting from scratch. It also reduces the available pool of qualified replacement prospects should a change occur at Valpo (inshallah). But if it is gonna happen, it's gotta be now.
I read about how Valpo interview over 100 candidates for the coaching job before selecting Carlson. My question is did they really interview over 100 candidates or did they get 100 responses or resumes? Also, what experience did these candidates have - watching football at a bar in Lincoln Park top bratwurst chef at the Memorial Stadium tailgate?
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 21, 2012, 10:49:25 AMI read about how Valpo interview over 100 candidates for the coaching job before selecting Carlson. My question is did they really interview over 100 candidates or did they get 100 responses or resumes? Also, what experience did these candidates have - watching football at a bar in Lincoln Park top bratwurst chef at the Memorial Stadium tailgate?
Or Madden NFL video game player, or Soldier Field usher, or.............
Quote from: Valposter on November 21, 2012, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 21, 2012, 10:49:25 AMI read about how Valpo interview over 100 candidates for the coaching job before selecting Carlson. My question is did they really interview over 100 candidates or did they get 100 responses or resumes? Also, what experience did these candidates have - watching football at a bar in Lincoln Park top bratwurst chef at the Memorial Stadium tailgate?
Or Madden NFL video game player, or Soldier Field usher, or.............
Do you honestly think this is helping?
sorry my bad. Realty is setting in.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 21, 2012, 12:43:04 PMRealty is setting in.
Careful...I hear it's a down market for sellers.
I asked for that one. ::) Again my bad.
WHAT WE CAN EXPECT IN 2013
OK, Let's assume the HFC is back in 2013. What will the Crusaders face?
What we know
~ Campbell, Davidson and Morehead will all have new coaches.
~ These programs consistently ranked higher in the PFL in almost every offense and defense category over the past three years
~ Valpo was by far the worst team in the league (see stats below taken from the PFL stats page)
~ Morehead and Davidson both lose their starting QBs to graduation
~ Of the newbies (Mercer and Stetson), Valpo only plays one: Mercer @ Mercer's brand new stadium/field house facility
~ Davidson and Campbell play Mercer at home; Morehead does not play Mercer.
~ Davidson and Campbell also play @ Stetson; Morehead does not play Stetson
What we can assume
~ The top/middle tier of the PFL will retain their coaching staffs
~ Valpo will have their 4th Defensive Coordinator in as many years
~ Despite graduation losses at the top/middle tier PFL schools, the talent drop-off will not be so significant that Valpo will surpass them
~ Top tier schools will retain their undergraduate talent and attract superior talent in the incoming class of 2013 (rich get richer)
~ Valpo will have even more difficulty attracting game changing talent based on 3 years of poor performance
~ Valpo may lose some talent to drop-out or transfer
~ To attract new coaches and assist in their recruiting, Morehead, Campbell and Davidson will make significant investments in FB in 2013
~ Valpo will not plow any significant additional funds into the FB program above what is being invested at this point
~ VU Football donations will not appreciably increase
~ Hiring a new HFC will inspire renewed enthusiasm and changed attitudes at each of the other three bottom feeder schools
~ Morale at Valpo will not improve or will further nose-dive
What we can conclude for 2013
~ Top/middle tier schools will maintain the quality of their programs and remain competitive
~ The other three bottom feeders will improve
~ Valpo may improve slightly, but will still lose ground in comparison to the other three bottom feeders
~ It will be tougher to win in 2013 than in 2012
~ Valpo will be 2-9 or 3-8 in 2013, but could be 0-11 or 1-10 again :(
I'd be interested in feedback on these ideas as well as the stat sheet that is attached (click to expand).
I agree with all of the points 62 made above and it does not paint a pretty picture. Does it make sense to take the Xavier approach and not try to be all things to all people. Eliminate football and reallocate precious scarce resources to athletic programs with strong leadership, success, and stability like basketball, baseball, softball, soccer. Enhancements to the ARC, a new baseball field and athletic park, increased budgets to reward and retain successful coaches, etc. I am sure football has a large operating budget and I am not sure Valpo is getting the return on the investment.
This is not meant to be a negative post and is certainly not intended to disrespect the current or past players in the program. Just trying to take a global business view of the athletic program and maximize resources.
Valposter,
I see where you are getting at. I do not want Valpo to get rid of football if the administration and athletic department have competence to operate a football program that the students, players, community and alumni can feel good about. Right now, it is obviously not happening. I reviewed 62's comments and they were objective and well said. I would like to see football at Valpo if it is operated properly. I think it can be done with the right strategy and a reasonable budget. But if they want to keep things in this pathetic status quo state, then let's avoid the fluff and remove football.
If you keep football, please get rid of Carlson and the smoke and mirrors. There is no reason honoring a contract should keep you moving forward with this agenda. Explanations have not been met. A 2-31 record and a -31 point differential per game is a sufficient explanation.
Another thought (question?) on why we are in the situation we are in.
We've already :deadhorse: the ideas around the "builder from scratch" coach vs. the "turn-around skilled" coach. Listening to some MAC FB scores while listening to the VU-CSU BB game on the radio, another thought/question came to mind. Coach Carlson's frame of talent reference, recruiting experience, and "pipeline," were all pretty much at the NAIA, D-III level. How does a Northern Illinois coaching staff recruit to assemble a team that is now 11-1? They have to go head to head with Northwestern and Illinois. Yet they still get the necessary talent for their level of competition.
I don't have the answer to this, just asking the question. It's a big jump from D-III to I-AA (scholarship or not).
In the case of a MAC school, I think it would be instructive to note that that is a league in which random teams pop out with regularity--this year Kent, last year Ohio, year before that Buffalo, CMU before that; Ball State not too long before under Coach Hoke. So a lot of that is I think how teams stack up and rises/falls. NIU was good long ago in the days of LeShon Johnson too. It seems to be far more cyclical at the mid-major level, as we know from basketball.
Also, note that NIU success seems not to transfer to the B1G--Kill, party of joy, your table is ready.
isn't Minnesota going to a bowl game? Also, the best thing about football season at Minnesota is that each day is one day closer to hockey season.
I guess both sides of the story are coming up. Similar to what happened at Texas Tech with Leach. Who really knows?
I was just using the MAC as perhaps a flawed example. Another way to look at this is from the Valpo MBB perspective. Would MLB hire a D-III coach to replace Bryce? I think not, unless that D-III coach once had a lot of D-I experience as an assistant or as a player or even was once a head coach at that level. The recruiting dimension alone is mind boggling at the D-I level. Then add the speed of the game, the talent, pressure, the high profile, the national exposure and it would be unusual for a D-I school to make that sort of leap of faith.
Shouldn't those same factors have come into play with FB as well? Theoretically, the only common ground between D-III and PFL is financial need vs. FB scholarships for other D-IAA leagues. Everything else should be two divisions above (at least for most of the other PFL teams). Therefore, experience at the D-IAA level should have weighed heavily in the decision process. :twocents:
62, very good points. But you cannot compare the situation of NIU, Illinois and Northwestern with Valpo and Div. 1 NS football. I certainly do agree, however, the difference from Div 1 NS to Div. 3 and NAIA football. The scope of the schools in Div. 1 are generally bigger than in Div. 3 or NAIA.
BTW, any new at Valpo on Carlson's status? Nothing was written in his blog. I wonder is something at brewing at the ARC offices.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 23, 2012, 09:43:35 PM
I was just using the MAC as perhaps a flawed example. Another way to look at this is from the Valpo MBB perspective. Would MLB hire a D-III coach to replace Bryce? I think not, unless that D-III coach once had a lot of D-I experience as an assistant or as a player or even was once a head coach at that level. The recruiting dimension alone is mind boggling at the D-I level. Then add the speed of the game, the talent, pressure, the high profile, the national exposure and it would be unusual for a D-I school to make that sort of leap of faith.
Shouldn't those same factors have come into play with FB as well? Theoretically, the only common ground between D-III and PFL is financial need vs. FB scholarships for other D-IAA leagues. Everything else should be two divisions above (at least for most of the other PFL teams). Therefore, experience at the D-IAA level should have weighed heavily in the decision process. :twocents:
I am surprised you would make this comparison. These high level NAIA teams are very good, even against NCAA teams. Here in Fort Wayne the St. Francis Cougars, a perenial NAIA powerhouse, have played against teams like Indiana State in the past and beaten them easily. Carlson's better teams in the NAIA probably would have won the PFL.
OK FW, point taken. Any reaction to the MBB analogy? just searching for answers.
VULB#62, it isn't that strange. Wisconsin brought up Bo Ryan from the D-III ranks. Sure, he hasn't been a National Championship coach, but he has some good experience to build from that helped him be competitive in the B1G for a number of years now.
Bo Ryan came to Wisconsin from UW-Milwaukee. I hope you're not calling them a D-III program, that may upset some of our Panther fans. Also, he was a long time Wisconsin assistant, before becoming head coach at UW-Platteville.
Quote from: FWalum on November 23, 2012, 10:18:26 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 23, 2012, 09:43:35 PM
I was just using the MAC as perhaps a flawed example. Another way to look at this is from the Valpo MBB perspective. Would MLB hire a D-III coach to replace Bryce? I think not, unless that D-III coach once had a lot of D-I experience as an assistant or as a player or even was once a head coach at that level. The recruiting dimension alone is mind boggling at the D-I level. Then add the speed of the game, the talent, pressure, the high profile, the national exposure and it would be unusual for a D-I school to make that sort of leap of faith.
Shouldn't those same factors have come into play with FB as well? Theoretically, the only common ground between D-III and PFL is financial need vs. FB scholarships for other D-IAA leagues. Everything else should be two divisions above (at least for most of the other PFL teams). Therefore, experience at the D-IAA level should have weighed heavily in the decision process. :twocents:
I am surprised you would make this comparison. These high level NAIA teams are very good, even against NCAA teams. Here in Fort Wayne the St. Francis Cougars, a perenial NAIA powerhouse, have played against teams like Indiana State in the past and beaten them easily. Carlson's better teams in the NAIA probably would have won the PFL.
I agree with you FW to an extent. However the overall scopes and portfolios of Valpo and St. Francis are vastly different. 110 men play on the St. Francis football team - that is over 12% of the male population including the graduate students! Thus, St. Francis emphasizes football much more than Valpo. Also, after reviewing the academic standards of both schools, Valpo's admission standards are significantly more selective. You can also make the same comparison with St. Joseph's Ind. I am just basing this off the numbers.
That being said, Valpo's has a larger scope in its portfolio, and football is there just for the sake of having a program. However, as we have discussed, that does not justify keeping things status quo. As we know, the situation is unsatisfactory and positive changes are required.
I don't know that that analogy works either--at least not for VU.
How would you have felt if they hired David Macchi without any coaching experience whatsoever?
Or Andy Horne? Tom's son?
I love Bryce, and I wouldn't rather have anyone else, but since we're talking resumés meriting hiring...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 24, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
I don't know that that analogy works either--at least not for VU.
How would you have felt if they hired David Macchi without any coaching experience whatsoever?
Or Andy Horne? Tom's son?
I love Bryce, and I wouldn't rather have anyone else, but since we're talking resumés meriting hiring...
If both Andy Horne and David Macchi would turn the program around and go above .500 without cheating. If they also used some of the positive elements that Bryce uses then I'm all for hiring either Andy or David. It really can't get much worse.
you are joking comparing macchi and andy horne to bryce right? ???
if not you have won idiotic post of the year...congratulations
Quote from: slickdaddy on November 24, 2012, 12:57:34 PMif not you have won idiotic post of the year...congratulations
coming from a 'genius' like you, that's actually a compliment.
the argument stands.
ok lets see...
macchi ,decent receiver -had a decent qb to help him,in a bad league
andy horne?what?coached under his dad..wow..what can i say
bryce drew
all-american
played on sweet 16
conference player of yr
played in nba for 3 different teams
played for is dad...actually a great coach
no comparison
NEXT!
GET BACK TO FOOTBALL
Agreed, that's a pretty turrible comparison
Quote from: slickdaddy on November 24, 2012, 01:27:11 PM
ok lets see...
macchi ,decent receiver -had a decent qb to help him,in a bad league
andy horne?what?coached under his dad..wow..what can i say
bryce drew
all-american
played on sweet 16
conference player of yr
played in nba for 3 different teams
played for is dad...actually a great coach
no comparison
NEXT!
GET BACK TO FOOTBALL
...Macchi was our QB...you must be thinking of Giancola, who was his top WR
Quote from: valpotx on November 24, 2012, 01:29:42 PMQuote from: slickdaddy on November 24, 2012, 01:27:11 PMok lets see... macchi ,decent receiver -had a decent qb to help him,in a bad league andy horne?what?coached under his dad..wow..what can i say bryce drew all-american played on sweet 16 conference player of yr played in nba for 3 different teams played for is dad...actually a great coach no comparison NEXT! GET BACK TO FOOTBALL
...Macchi was our QB...you must be thinking of Giancola, who was his top WR
i always get em mixed up...thanks
still...my point stays the same
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 23, 2012, 09:33:39 PM
isn't Minnesota going to a bowl game? Also, the best thing about football season at Minnesota is that each day is one day closer to hockey season.
As an alum of both Valpo and Minnesota, it is hard handle such sarcasm. At least Minnesota has a history of 8 national titles and 18 conference championships. Unfortunately, what the team did in 1967 doesn't hold a lot of weight.
By the way, yes, Minnesota is bowl-eligible this year. Maybe that will help them keep some of the top in-state talent that seems to always get away.
I'll keep this simple for those of you who lack the cognitive skills to follow a simple argument:
#62 said how could we hire someone whose head coaching experience was mainly at the D-III level, and asked for a basketball comparison, i.e. 'would we ever hire someone with that thin a resumé for MBB?'.
I replied that that doesn't work in VU's case because we hired a former star (the football analogue being Macchi), the son of a successful coach (the football analogue being Andy Horne) with no head coaching experience of any kind.
I admit, he's done wonderfully so far, and better than I thought, but if we're not going to knock Bryce's coaching resumé, then we can't knock Dale Carlson's.
It's really not that hard.
Quote from: valpo95 on November 24, 2012, 01:47:40 PMAt least Minnesota has a history of 8 national titles and 18 conference championships.
That is true! I clean up at bar bets by asking "who has the 3rd most B1G titles?" Stumps everyone south of Madison.
the argument does not work because bryce was a div 1 asst coach
my issue is that you mentioned the names macchi and horne in the same sentence as bryce
and to say the career of tom horne was successful...
as they say tomorrow on espn pregame
cmon man!
and
stop it!
do you really not understand the difference between "head" and "assistant"?
If not, I can tell you where you need to pull your "head" out of...
One of the qualifications that I mentioned, and that was not given much play in the last several posts, was that a D-IAA HFC candidate who may not have had HFC experience at the D-I-IAA level could have D-I or D-IAA assistant coaching experience -- maybe a OC or DC job, and/or recruiting coordinator (implied was "successful experience"). My purpose was to emphasize that knowledge of the D-IAA FB environment, the competitive conditions and the recruiting pool were necessary ingredients to immediate success as opposed to learning them on the job and sacrificing a season or two in the process.
Regarding the Bryce thing. IMO he'd qualify under these conditions because he spent years on the bench coaching next to his dad, hitting the D-I recruiting trail and was ultimately promoted to Associate HBBC. Another year or two and Roger Powell will have a similar resume, and he'll be offered a D-I mid-major HBBC position or a top assistant job with a BCS program. These guys didn't earn their stripes in D-III. And, FB-wise, I don't know if Macchi or young Horne have these coaching credentials.
But maybe all of this is a moot point. Maybe it comes down to making good contact with the players, getting the most out of the player talent you have, figuring out how that talent can be made competitive, and building a program around those concepts so that the on-the-field performance is competitive regardless of whether you come from D-III or have D-I experience. Clearly that hasn't been done in the past three years, and many D-I coaches are guilty of same.
Can it be as simple as Carlson is doing a horrible job and the university AD and administration truly could care less? I know, beating the deadhorse again.
No, #62, my point was this: You can't compare basketball and football, not even at the same school at the same time, because these two situations are almost perfectly opposite.
Consider:
Carlson got his job because of his resumé, not because of who he is.
Bryce got his job because of who he is, not because of his resumé.
A further point:
Carlson's resumé will take a serious hit because of his performance.
Bryce's resumé will grow exponentially because of his performance.
Finally:
Carlson will not keep his job because of his performance.
Bryce will keep his job because of his performance.
(And:
Carlson will have a difficult time finding another [college] head coaching job; witness those who came before him.
Bryce will not have a difficult time finding another head coaching job offer; witness those (Drews) who came before him.
Apples and oranges...
Simple - Carlson has done a horrible job and it appears that the administration is not going to do anything about it. Don't worry though, we are so close to turning it around. Just have to limit our mistakes, be consistent, have all 11 guys doing what they're supposed to be doing, and, oh yes, play hard for four quarters. Did I leave anything out? How about demanding the coaches do their jobs. Spend less time making excuses, tweeting the same inspirational quotes over and over again (Carlson is back at his favorite past time again) and blaming the past. What a shame for the young men stuck in this ridiculous situation.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 24, 2012, 08:05:24 PM
Can it be as simple as Carlson is doing a horrible job and the university AD and administration truly could care less? I know, beating the deadhorse again.
Again? You've beat that dead horse so bad there's nothing left of him. :-*
(http://nomeatballs.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/deadhorse.jpg)
Love the slogan (used to have a tie-dyed beer t-shirt with it on it. ah, college):
(http://www.themoabbrewery.com/logos/Dead_Horse.gif)
Maybe Coach Carlson needs to tweet less, and revise his playbook (system) more?
Quote from: valporun on November 24, 2012, 09:02:35 PMMaybe Coach Carlson needs to tweet less, and revise his playbook (system) more?
Beautiful!!!!!!!
He seems to have no original words of inspiration so thinking he can reinvent his playbook or modify his system is probably a stretch. The guy is not who he says he is or who anyone thought he was three years ago. The number of believers is dwindling.
Have we come full circle now to the halftime speeches USC?
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 25, 2012, 08:36:00 PMHave we come full circle now to the halftime speeches USC?
I cannot find any wisdom from wonderkind Lane Kiffin to allow me to find an inspirational speech. His goalline strategy in the fourth quarter against ND last night was mind bogglingly sad. Maybe if Lane gets fired this week at USC Heritage Hall and thanks everyone including his trophy wife, we can use his words to assist Carlson on his optimisitically anticipated resignation speech at the Union this week.
Here's a kind of season wrap-up by John Mutka. The focus is on punter Greg Wood, who has pro scouts looking at him, but it also goes into the outlook for the future. Here's one quote from the article:
"So why 1-and-10? The Crusaders were outscored 334-84 in the first half. Playing from behind is not recommended for a coach seeking a long shelf life, but athletic director Mark LaBarbera believes the Crusaders are headed in the right direction against a schedule which no longer welcomes Division III pushovers." :-X
There's a lot of mention at how young the Crusaders were. :snore:
Here's the link to the full article:
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16618887-556/mutka-vu-punter-greg-wood-getting-pro-attention.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16618887-556/mutka-vu-punter-greg-wood-getting-pro-attention.html)
Hey USC:
Speaking of trophy wives,.....did you ever see the "Legend of Ricky Bobby" starring Will Ferrell as race car driver?
It was actually a pretty lame movie except for one memorable scene.
Maybe Carlso could give it a whirl next year as a pre-gameer?
Went something like, "We thank you good Lord baby Jesus for my kids (Jim Bob and xxx?). Also for my smokin' hot wife,.....And for the food we are about to eat.... the always delicious KFC and Taco Bell, ......and for a victory at the race this week......etc......"
It is probably on youtube somewhere. Can't take time to look for it right now or play around.
Son's names were "Walker" and "Texas Ranger" :)
Talladega Nights - Prayer to Baby Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A0-u85aAYg#ws)
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 26, 2012, 09:31:00 AMHere's a kind of season wrap-up by John Mutka. The focus is on punter Greg Wood, who has pro scouts looking at him, but it also goes into the outlook for the future. Here's one quote from the article: "So why 1-and-10? The Crusaders were outscored 334-84 in the first half. Playing from behind is not recommended for a coach seeking a long shelf life, but athletic director Mark LaBarbera believes the Crusaders are headed in the right direction against a schedule which no longer welcomes Division III pushovers." :-X There's a lot of mention at how young the Crusaders were. :snore: Here's the link to the full article: http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16618887-556/mutka-vu-punter-greg-wood-getting-pro-attention.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16618887-556/mutka-vu-punter-greg-wood-getting-pro-attention.html)
In the words of Mike Ditka - Mark LaBarbera, who are you crapping? We are 2-31 and headed in the right direction - C'mon man. Talk about buffing a turd! I guess the happy drug prescription works after all.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 26, 2012, 09:31:00 AMbut athletic director Mark LaBarbera believes the Crusaders are headed in the right direction
Well, that makes one of us who thinks we are headed in the right direction.
Anything less than 4 wins, and close games (less than 8 points) in 3 others, will show which direction this program is headed. Carlson has a tough assignment next year.
The financial assessment must have been completed and the administration has decided they must go with Carlson. Now ml must sell the "situation" that Valpo has put themselves in. I actually feel somewhat sorry for Mark. Although he put himself in the situation by trying to hire the best qualified it certainly did go south. He now has to put up some kind of positive light on it so as many football playing students will stay as possible so they have the best chance to move forward if/when a new football coach is hired in 1 or 2 years.
Quote from: bbtds on November 26, 2012, 11:57:16 AMHe now has to put up some kind of positive light on it so as many football playing students will stay as possible so they have the best chance to move forward if/when a new football coach is hired in 1 or 2 years.
Player retention is a big key this off-season. I did some checking here is what we have so far in the Carlson regime:
Recruiting class #1 36 players, 13 remain as of year end 2012 .
Recruiting class #2 56 players, 31 remain as of year end 2012 .
Recruiting class #3 37 players, 32 remain as of year end 2012 .
Quote from: IndyValpo on November 26, 2012, 12:21:45 PMQuote from: bbtds on November 26, 2012, 11:57:16 AMHe now has to put up some kind of positive light on it so as many football playing students will stay as possible so they have the best chance to move forward if/when a new football coach is hired in 1 or 2 years.
Player retention is a big key this off-season. I did some checking here is what we have so far in the Carlson regime: Recruiting class #1 36 players as of year end 2012 13 remain. Recruiting class #1 56 players as of year end 2012 31 remain. Recruiting class #1 37 players as of year end 2012 32 remain.
how can you have 3 recrutingyears in 2012?
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 26, 2012, 01:49:50 PMhow can you have 3 recrutingyears in 2012?
You can't...I have redone the post to hopefully make more sense.....
Quote from: IndyValpo on November 26, 2012, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: bbtds on November 26, 2012, 11:57:16 AMHe now has to put up some kind of positive light on it so as many football playing students will stay as possible so they have the best chance to move forward if/when a new football coach is hired in 1 or 2 years.
Player retention is a big key this off-season. I did some checking here is what we have so far in the Carlson regime:
Recruiting class #1 36 players as of year end 2012 13 remain.
Recruiting class #1 56 players as of year end 2012 31 remain.
Recruiting class #1 37 players as of year end 2012 32 remain.
Retention is important, but I believe that most VU football coaches over the last 30 years have recruited large freshman classes, only to have half or less come back for their sophomore year. There are many reasons for this that are not related to the coaching staff. I don't have numbers, but I'm sure it is rare that a VU football recruit leaves for greener pastures at the FCS level.
I think there is some serious explaining to do regarding Labarbera's comment. Why can he truly justify that this program is improving and going in the right direction? Because we do not face Div. 3 opponents? Most Div. 3 teams would beat Valpo. Labarbera's starting is major sugar coating and a copout, reminding me of Kopi Annan in the United Nations years ago.
Lets see how many players actually return for the spring semester. If they are going to leave, now is the time to find a new home. As far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.
That's great! Let's put everything in a positive light! (Although, note no direct quote from MLB that we are "headed in the right direction", in fact, no direct quotes from him period! The only quotes are from Carlson--maybe he took some time from tweeting inanities to talk to Mutka and tell him what he thought MLB thought!) Nevertheless--Stay Positive! Think:
Punting prospects will FLOCK to the Carlson offense!
Also kickoff return prospects will line up for his defense!
Bright sides galore!
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 26, 2012, 05:58:04 PM
I think there is some serious explaining to do regarding Labarbera's comment. Why can he truly justify that this program is improving and going in the right direction? Because we do not face Div. 3 opponents? Most Div. 3 teams would beat Valpo. Labarbera's starting is major sugar coating and a copout, reminding me of Kopi Annan in the United Nations years ago.
I know that you are relatively new here on the forum so I will give you a pass on your comments and also a little advice. Mark Labarbera has tons of credit built up with most of the people on this forum and with the alumni in general. He has taken this athletic program to new heights in a relatively short period of time and for the most part done an excellent job hiring new coaches and retaining successful coaches that many of us thought were going to be quickly off to greener pastures. So before you throw any more dirt please remember that in my book, and many others, ML is a man of integrity, and I will give
him my support even though I don't like or understand the situation.
I would bet some leave for academic reasons. I have heard that some of these football players aren't the most, err academically motivated.
The retention rates really ARE striking. Just because it is similar to past football attrition rates does not help.
Better to benchmark against the good PFL teams and ask: Do they retain clearly higher percent of players?
If so, why is that?.......do the players fit better into the wider university than Valpo's recruits?
My hunch (beating the dead horse, perhaps?) is that Valpo's recruiting strategy is very random and does not build any pipelines into reliable high schools that can match the right kids to your school. Any thoughts? Talk amongst yourselves.
Quote from: FWalum on November 26, 2012, 07:55:11 PMQuote from: usc4valpo on November 26, 2012, 05:58:04 PMI think there is some serious explaining to do regarding Labarbera's comment. Why can he truly justify that this program is improving and going in the right direction? Because we do not face Div. 3 opponents? Most Div. 3 teams would beat Valpo. Labarbera's starting is major sugar coating and a copout, reminding me of Kopi Annan in the United Nations years ago.
I know that you are relatively new here on the forum so I will give you a pass on your comments and also a little advice. Mark Labarbera has tons of credit built up with most of the people on this forum and with the alumni in general. He has taken this athletic program to new heights in a relatively short period of time and for the most part done an excellent job hiring new coaches and retaining successful coaches that many of us thought were going to be quickly off to greener pastures. So before you throw any more dirt please remember that in my book, and many others, ML is a man of integrity, and I will give him my support even though I don't like or understand the situation.
Ok, well said and I respect your statement. If he is a man of integrity, then I think it is fair to ask him why he believes this football program is in the right direction. He may be a decent man, but his statement in the press was rather fluffy. Perhaps his feeling on football are very secondary to him. Going status quo after a 2-31 record does not indicate the team is going in the right direction.
Again:
we have no proof MLB said this.
What we have is an indirect quote in an article which otherwise does not mention MLB at all and in which all the direct quotes are from Carlson:
QuotePlaying from behind is not recommended for a coach seeking a long shelf life, but athletic director Mark LaBarbera believes the Crusaders are headed in the right direction against a schedule which no longer welcomes Division III pushovers.
A reverential reading of this statement, for FW's sake: If this is in fact even any sort of accurate presentation of MLB's beliefs--(
and anyone that knows John Mutka should ask him whence this sentence came)--MLB believes we're headed in the right direction simply because it can't really get any worse. I.e. once you're on the ground, or in our case, the Death Star's trash compactor, things can only get better.
Quote from: FloridaFootball on November 26, 2012, 06:32:32 PM
Lets see how many players actually return for the spring semester. If they are going to leave, now is the time to find a new home. As far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.
Bingo.
On the issue of Carlson staying or going in 2012 based solely on wins and losses, end of thread.
**FIN**
Cripe, I did not read this thoroughly. My bad. Perhaps MLB's response was not what was first intented. Perhaps the writer has it all wrong. Perhaps this conversation is not FINed.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 26, 2012, 09:04:51 PMAs far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.
I would agree with that, although there's still a couple weeks leeway there, even at our level, for recruiting's sake, this is the time to do it.
Perhaps this is what Mutka takes as a tacit approval by MLB of the way things are going?
I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................
Quote from: laura on November 26, 2012, 10:00:11 PM
I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................
This reminds me of the song and dance the Dance Hall Girl played by Madeline Kahn did in "Blazing Saddles."
I'm tired
Sick and tired of love
I've had my fill of love
from below and above
Tired
Tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let's face it
I'm tired!
Tired
tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame?
I'm so tired...
Goddammit, I'm tired!
I'm tired
Tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame
I'm so tired...
[Prussian soldier chorus led by Mel Brooks]
she's tired
-she's tired
sick and tired of love
-give her a break
she's had her fill of love
-she's not a snake
from below and above
-can't you see she's sick?
tired
-she's bushed
tired of being admired
-let her alone
tired of love uninspired
-get off the phone
she's tired
-don't you know she's pooped?
Tired
tired of playing the game
ain't it a friggin shame
I'm so...
Let's face it
Everything below the waist...is kaput!
Tirrrred!
Quote from: laura on November 26, 2012, 10:00:11 PM
I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................
Laura, you've got that wrong. Dead wrong. The members of this board who have been posting to this string have not derided the kids. If anything, they wonder how can the program wallow for three years in the face of improving talent. Expressed concerns over inconsistent play, bone-head plays and in-game mistakes have been squarely laid at the feet of the coaching staff for their lack of preparation, the systems that have been employed and inability to bring the best out of the the talent they have recruited.
I do have to say that our defense was not good, though I am sure they are good kids. How many passing plays of 30+ or 40+ yards did we give up this year, and how many runs of 40/50+ yards?? Our defense in particular was just so much slower physically than our opponents. You can try to blame it on the plays called, but some of the routes they ran were just straight up the field burning our secondary, or running it right up the middle to watch the Red Sea part...
I guess she might be referencing a few things I have said. I certainly agree that much can be laid at the feet of the coaching staff, but still, the coaches don't drop passes, make bad throws, miss tackles or miss extra points.
The talent isn't quite there yet but the overall coaching mistakes overwhelm the playing errors.
TX and 72, I have to add that a lot (not all - e.g., PATs) of what you refer to can still be laid at the feet of the staff. Without going into minutia, coaching and well structured practice using, for instance in the case of defense, well-drilled coverages can make a big difference. Disciplined line play closes holes. Tape study and good, detailed scouting reports with tendencies and frequencies, shared with players and drilled repetitively are coaching responsibilities. In-game adjustments are coaching responsibilities. One observation as an example: Our LBs were not coached to take away simple delay crossing routes underneath (that's FB 101). Watching all the streamed games, I saw them consistently dropping 12-15 yards deep into no-man's-land -- that's all about coaching. TX, you'd go ballistic if you saw Valpo OFs consistently missing the cut-off man, game after game, and you'd point your finger at the coach, wouldn't you? Winning teams drop passes and overthrow receivers too, but we remember most of ours, because they contributed to 31 freakin losses. A number of sacks that we suffered were in part because the QB hasn't been drilled enough in quick reads and throwing the ball away. Could we use better talent? Of course, what program wouldn't? But have our kids' talents been optimized? Far from it. These kids, as a whole, may not be championship caliber players, but they are not as bad as their record says they are (despite what Parcells said) and given better coaching would be a helluva lot more competitive.
As an aside to this, I'm thinking (with no real basis other than speculation derived from a number of observed-from-afar FB program dynamics) and I could be 180 degrees off, that there might be a lot of talking about what to do during practice but little drilling, over and over, in what to do. Just a hunch. But I think, those of us who played or coached at a high level, we'd all agree, you play like you practice. Our problem on the forum, is that we can't see what the Wizard is doing behind the curtain. We don't watch practices. We don't attend team meetings. We're not on the sideline or in the press box. So we can only speculate based on the final product that we see on Saturday afternoons. I feel bad about that -- the speculating, that is. :(
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 26, 2012, 09:32:58 PMQuote from: crusaderjoe on November 26, 2012, 09:04:51 PMAs far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.
I would agree with that, although there's still a couple weeks leeway there, even at our level, for recruiting's sake, this is the time to do it. Perhaps this is what Mutka takes as a tacit approval by MLB of the way things are going?
I have to wonder the brilliance of Mutka in his journalistic skills. Who knows?
In Missouri Gary Pinkel is under fire for missing a bowl game for the first time in the last 8 seasons. All of the SEC teams below Mo. fired their coaches.
We are not an FCS school and football doesn't bring in any bucks directly. . But we send a message to potential recruits anyway when 3 years of this aren't addressed.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 27, 2012, 11:56:25 AM
In Missouri Gary Pinkel is under fire for missing a bowl game for the first time in the last 8 seasons. All of the SEC teams below Mo. fired their coaches.
We are not an FCS school and football doesn't bring in any bucks directly. . But we send a message to potential recruits anyway when 3 years of this aren't addressed.
Pinkel was also the guy who spoke up for Coach Paterno during the tragedy at Penn State. He said anyone who coached that long and had a positive influence on so many many students shouldn't be denounced just because he helped protect a pedophile for 10 years.
Pinkel missed that one completely.
Kind of rough to fire Pinkel for his record in their first year of SEC play though. They were ok in the Big 12, with one or two good years in which they were highly overrated in my opinion (playing in the easier part of the Big 12 at the time, the North), but they are highly overmatched in the SEC at the moment. Fire him for his dumb Paterno comment, not for being forced into a better football conference that they are not ready to compete in by any stretch of the imagination...
Quote from: bbtds on November 26, 2012, 11:08:59 PM
Quote from: laura on November 26, 2012, 10:00:11 PM
I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................
This reminds me of the song and dance the Dance Hall Girl played by Madeline Kahn did in "Blazing Saddles."
I'm tired
Sick and tired of love
I've had my fill of love
from below and above
Tired
Tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let's face it
I'm tired!
Tired
tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame?
I'm so tired...
Goddammit, I'm tired!
I'm tired
Tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame
I'm so tired...
[Prussian soldier chorus led by Mel Brooks]
she's tired
-she's tired
sick and tired of love
-give her a break
she's had her fill of love
-she's not a snake
from below and above
-can't you see she's sick?
tired
-she's bushed
tired of being admired
-let her alone
tired of love uninspired
-get off the phone
she's tired
-don't you know she's pooped?
Tired
tired of playing the game
ain't it a friggin shame
I'm so...
Let's face it
Everything below the waist...is kaput!
Tirrrred!
I can hear her voice as I read this!!! :lol:
Quote from: valpotx on November 27, 2012, 03:28:05 AM
I do have to say that our defense was not good, though I am sure they are good kids. How many passing plays of 30+ or 40+ yards did we give up this year, and how many runs of 40/50+ yards?? Our defense in particular was just so much slower physically than our opponents. You can try to blame it on the plays called, but some of the routes they ran were just straight up the field burning our secondary, or running it right up the middle to watch the Red Sea part...
We gave up 22 scoring plays from scrimage of more than 20 yards (Red Zone). We only scored on 7 such plays. We also gave up 6 return TDs (KR, INT, Fumble) and only had 2 such scores. A defender being in the proper position, but not having the speed to catch someone is recruiting. Our defense being out of position is coaching, in my book at least.
Quote from: valpotx on November 27, 2012, 03:29:19 PM
Kind of rough to fire Pinkel for his record in their first year of SEC play though. They were ok in the Big 12, with one or two good years in which they were highly overrated in my opinion (playing in the easier part of the Big 12 at the time, the North), but they are highly overmatched in the SEC at the moment. Fire him for his dumb Paterno comment, not for being forced into a better football conference that they are not ready to compete in by any stretch of the imagination...
ok in the big 12? he single-handedly turned the program into a perennial top 4 program in the big 12. i'd call that more than just 'ok.' i read something somewhere that every coach in the mizzou athletics dept came out against the move to the sec, and yet it happened anyway. with a couple of years (and a desperately needed new quarterback, mizzou can be a mid-level sec team. hell, they even nearly knocked off a couple top 5 schools in their first year.
Campbell hires Mike Minter, former Carolina Panther! They will be a tougher team to beat next year.
either Amundson or Horne were former members of the Packers. No reason to expect great success.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on November 27, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: valpotx on November 27, 2012, 03:29:19 PM
Kind of rough to fire Pinkel for his record in their first year of SEC play though. They were ok in the Big 12, with one or two good years in which they were highly overrated in my opinion (playing in the easier part of the Big 12 at the time, the North), but they are highly overmatched in the SEC at the moment. Fire him for his dumb Paterno comment, not for being forced into a better football conference that they are not ready to compete in by any stretch of the imagination...
ok in the big 12? he single-handedly turned the program into a perennial top 4 program in the big 12. i'd call that more than just 'ok.' i read something somewhere that every coach in the mizzou athletics dept came out against the move to the sec, and yet it happened anyway. with a couple of years (and a desperately needed new quarterback, mizzou can be a mid-level sec team. hell, they even nearly knocked off a couple top 5 schools in their first year.
I wouldn't call 3 dougle digit win seasons in the last 12 years a perennial top 4 program. Yes, they were top 4 in the North, but were mainly a pushover against the top Big 12 teams, outside of the seasons at 12-2 and 10-3. Click on the years associated with their records in the below link, and you will see them routinely spanked by 20+ by the true top Big 12 programs. You can't make a statement that they were a top 4 program based on 2-3 years. Yes, they improved quite a bit versus what they used to be before Pinkel and his first few years as well, but not upper echelon. It was actually an upgrade to get TCU and WVU over Missouri and A&M in football. A&M surprised the crap out of people this year, but had been down for many years until Johnny Football this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Tigers_football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Tigers_football)
Quote from: valpotx on November 28, 2012, 01:21:06 AMdougle
What's that? When you have to google something twice because you can't remember what you read the first time? ;D
Quote from: FloridaFootball on November 27, 2012, 09:14:16 PM
Campbell hires Mike Minter, former Carolina Panther! They will be a tougher team to beat next year.
Quote from: vu72 on November 27, 2012, 10:54:35 PM
either Amundson or Horne were former members of the Packers. No reason to expect great success.
Amundsen's 10 year record was 47-46-3 including two ICC championships, a second place, and never finished in the basement and had a lot of finishes in the middle of the pack. Gotta say VU was, on average, competitive under Amundsen. Amundsen's record matches the stated aims of MLB -- consistently competitive with an occasional run at the PFL championship.
But to underscore the point, John Hannah, Hall of Fame OG for the New England Patriots, tried coaching Chelsea HS in Boston after he retired. He went 0-10 and quit after one season. Not all good players make good coaches. But Minter does bring some coaching experience to the position. In reading the release, I was interested to see, however, that he did not have a top assistant role at Liberty under Turner Gill. His recruiting territory, however, included NC and SC -- right in Campbell's neighborhood.
Having said that, Minter's known for his toughness and intensity. If that rubs off on his team, then yes, they will be tougher to beat, just because.
I didn't know that Amundsen played in the NFL. I had a class with him in 2001 or 2002 that I believe was of the weightlifting variety to get my PE or physical credit (since baseball or other athletics didn't count for some reason...). All I knew about him and Koch was that they were former football coaches still around in some capacity.
Norm Amundsen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Norman "Norm" Robert Amundsen (born September 28, 1932, in Chicago, Illinois) was a guard for the Green Bay Packers.[1]
Career
Amundsen was drafted by the Green Bay Packers in the sixth round of the 1955 NFL Draft and later played with the team during the 1957 NFL season. He played at the collegiate level at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.[2]
I didn't realize Amundsen was a Packer either.
The only thing you need to know about Bill Koch is that he went to Bogan HS in Chicago. That says it all, according to Bill.
Ahhh, the good ole days
1950 Valpo Football Team
Football (1950)
Undefeated in regular season play, the 1950 football team is the only Valparaiso University football team to ever play in a postseason bowl game.
The Crusaders met Wisconsin-LaCrosse in the Cigar Bowl played in Tampa, Fla.
The players on that team included: Arol Amling, Norm Arnold, Dick Boeck, John Buchheimer, Arch Dean, Tom Fenske, Gene Gobreski, Robert Goers, Joe Griffith, Bob Grobengieser, Gene Holtrey, Jerry Karstens, Bob Kerns, Harry Knox, Bill Koch, Ken Lambros, Lenny Latz, Red Mack, Tom Marshall, Hank Meier, John Minot,Neil Montour, Joe Pahr, Haig Paravonian, Eli Rapaich, Wil Rothman, Royce Roweder, Dick Schalon, L.V.Schroeder, Denny Tuomi, Ken Wessel, Carl Woodward, and Bill Wrege.
The trainer of the team was Bill Buehler and the managers included Bill Schudlich and Ed Buhrow. The coaches were Emory G. Bauer, Walt Reiner, and Guy Wellman
Koch was a fine gentleman but not a good coach. He was a defensive minded coach, which was evident because he never knew how to call plays during his tenure. The 1981 team he had, where they scored 44 points and did not score a TD until the 5th game of the season, was a classic.
Amundsen produced a two-time All-American OT and an NFL starter for the NY Jets. TX, check the BB stats.
Garry Spencer Puetz (born March 14, 1952 in Elmhurst, Illinois) is a former American football guard and tackle in the National Football League for the New York Jets, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Philadelphia Eagles, New England Patriots, and the Washington Redskins. He played college football at Valparaiso University and was drafted in the twelfth round of the 1973 NFL Draft.
In 1971 and 1972, he was named to the Kodak College Division All-American Team. A three-time All-ICC offensive tackle (also kicker in 1972), he owns the distinction of earning a Super Bowl ring in 1982 with the Washington Redskins.
Puetz played baseball in college for two seasons, hitting .321 each year and leading the Crusaders in hitting in 1972 .
Wow, I knew that Puetz played football at VU, but did not know he played baseball. A good all-around athlete I guess
Was Puetz on a full ride scholarship at Valpo? Didn't he also kick extra points? He wasn't shy about trying things out that is for sure.
I won't forget when Howard Cosell said Val-par-I-so on Monday Night Football with Dandy Don Meredith and Frank Gifford. It was the only way to watch the NFL other than on a local channel with the local team on Sunday back then. Cosell was the ultimate in east coast bias and opinion based broadcasting. Puetz might have well come from Mars as far as Howard was concerned. Dandy Don couldn't think of a song that went with Valpar-I-so so he couldn't comment and Gifford was probably trying to get a date with a cheerleader. But this was the group that helped launch the NFL into the league it is today. Without national TV coverage the NFL would be more like the NHL.
Quote from: bbtds on November 28, 2012, 12:17:46 PM
Was Puetz on a full ride scholarship at Valpo? Didn't he also kick extra points? He wasn't shy about trying things out that is for sure.
I won't forget when Howard Cosell said Val-par-I-so on Monday Night Football with Dandy Don Meredith and Frank Gifford. It was the only way to watch the NFL other than on a local channel with the local team on Sunday back then. Cosell was the ultimate in east coast bias and opinion based broadcasting. Puetz might have well come from Mars as far as Howard was concerned. Dandy Don couldn't think of a song that went with Valpar-I-so so he couldn't comment and Gifford was probably trying to get a date with a cheerleader. But this was the group that helped launch the NFL into the league it is today. Without national TV coverage the NFL would be more like the NHL.
Gary was a fraternity brother of mine, and yes, he did kick. The record book says he is 4th all time in field goals with 10 in 1972. He is tied for 5th all time in extra points, with bob Lampe. Both kicked 26.
I know there were scholarships back then but hard to say whether or not it was a full ride.
Quote from: bbtds on November 28, 2012, 12:17:46 PMWas Puetz on a full ride scholarship at Valpo? Didn't he also kick extra points? He wasn't shy about trying things out that is for sure. I won't forget when Howard Cosell said Val-par-I-so on Monday Night Football with Dandy Don Meredith and Frank Gifford. It was the only way to watch the NFL other than on a local channel with the local team on Sunday back then. Cosell was the ultimate in east coast bias and opinion based broadcasting. Puetz might have well come from Mars as far as Howard was concerned. Dandy Don couldn't think of a song that went with Valpar-I-so so he couldn't comment and Gifford was probably trying to get a date with a cheerleader. But this was the group that helped launch the NFL into the league it is today. Without national TV coverage the NFL would be more like the NHL.
I will say this - Cosell, Gifford and Meredith were better than what is on the networks right now. MNF was an event that it is certainly not today.
Sometime back, there was a TV movie called "Monday Night Mayhem," which was excellent. Except for Meredith, everyone hated Cosell. But he could make a game of checkers into the biggest television spectacular around.
Now if you want bad fb annoucers, where can you begin?
Loved MNF as a kid. There was a huge mystique. Maybe part of it was that all you ever saw of games outside your region was the "halftime highlights" that they would show during 5 minutes of halftime.
I was a Detroit Lions fan and they virtually disappeared. Usually saw Dolphins, Cowboys, Jets, Rams or Steelers.
Anyway, a lot of the MNF mystique came from not seeing so much of the other teams. Same with mlb.
OK, time for some serious trivia. chef, are you listening?? Here's the question: MNF started in what year and, who were the two teams involved in the first game, where was it played and (bonus points) what was the significance of the game relative to comments made the previous year by one of the players in the game? I'll post the answers sometime tomorrow...
Quote from: vu72 on November 28, 2012, 09:48:53 PM
OK, time for some serious trivia. chef, are you listening?? Here's the question: MNF started in what year and, who were the two teams involved in the first game, where was it played and (bonus points) what was the significance of the game relative to comments made the previous year by one of the players in the game? I'll post the answers sometime tomorrow...
1970, Jets-Browns, in Cleveland, my guess would be comments made by Namath before the Super Bowl, but that wasn't the year before, just earlier in 1970. Maybe about the merger of the NFL and AFL?
Quote from: covufan on November 29, 2012, 12:32:47 AM
Quote from: vu72 on November 28, 2012, 09:48:53 PM
OK, time for some serious trivia. chef, are you listening?? Here's the question: MNF started in what year and, who were the two teams involved in the first game, where was it played and (bonus points) what was the significance of the game relative to comments made the previous year by one of the players in the game? I'll post the answers sometime tomorrow...
1970, Jets-Browns, in Cleveland, my guess would be comments made by Namath before the Super Bowl, but that wasn't the year before, just earlier in 1970. Maybe about the merger of the NFL and AFL?
Memory lapse - It was the '69 Super Bowl ('68 season) that the Jets won the Super Bowl. I was thinkging it was '69 season and '70 Super Bowl.
A WINNER!! You got them all correct, except possibly the details about Joe Namath's comment. After winning the Superbowl vs. the Colts (#3), when asked why people thought the Colts would win easily, He said "who did they think they were playing? The Cleveland Browns?" (The Colts had beaten the Browns handily in the NFL title game)
Ya know, it may have been before the game, come to think about it! Nonetheless, it was the comment that didn't sit well with the Browns players or the folks in Cleveland and as a result the first MNF game had some great buildup and a result that made the Cleveland fans pretty happy.
FWIW in the football department, here's a link to all the press releases and stories regarding new HFC Mike Minter at Campbell. Expect use of tight ends and a smash mouth rushing offense. He is certainly a high energy guy. Talks about how it felt to be 1-15 and having John Fox come in, turn things around, and in two years they were in the SuperBowl.
http://www.gocamels.com/sports/fball/2012-13/releases/20121128si83ve (http://www.gocamels.com/sports/fball/2012-13/releases/20121128si83ve)
College Sports Madness ( USA Today subsidiary) came out with its post season All-Conference Team. Four Crusaders made the team. Greg Wood Senior -Punter. Jake Hutson Redhirt Freshman-Running Back, Patrick Derbak Junior- Linebacker andBill Bodzianowski Senior-OL. So we have two All-Conference players returning, one on Offense and one on Defense. These are our building blocks. While other schools have press releases about these athletes who have been honored...Carlson still has his Davidson Blog up...just embarassing....on his part.
Quote from: laura on November 29, 2012, 10:05:47 PM
College Sports Madness ( USA Today subsidiary) came out with its post season All-Conference Team. Four Crusaders made the team. Greg Wood Senior -Punter. Jake Hutson Redhirt Freshman-Running Back, Patrick Derbak Junior- Linebacker andBill Bodzianowski Senior-OL. So we have two All-Conference players returning, one on Offense and one on Defense. These are our building blocks. While other schools have press releases about these athletes who have been honored...Carlson still has his Davidson Blog up...just embarassing....on his part.
Nice to know. A bit more info and the link.
Wood 1st Team D
Hutson 2nd Team O
Derbak 3rd Team D
Bodzianowski 3rd Team O
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/5487 (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/5487)
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 30, 2012, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: laura on November 29, 2012, 10:05:47 PM
College Sports Madness ( USA Today subsidiary) came out with its post season All-Conference Team. Four Crusaders made the team. Greg Wood Senior -Punter. Jake Hutson Redhirt Freshman-Running Back, Patrick Derbak Junior- Linebacker andBill Bodzianowski Senior-OL. So we have two All-Conference players returning, one on Offense and one on Defense. These are our building blocks. While other schools have press releases about these athletes who have been honored...Carlson still has his Davidson Blog up...just embarassing....on his part.
Nice to know. A bit more info and the link.
Wood 1st Team D
Hutson 2nd Team O
Derbak 3rd Team D
Bodzianowski 3rd Team O
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/5487 (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/5487)
Thanks for the info and the link!
It might be that "College Sports Madness" is not a major publication, or that the PFL voted teams has not been released yet, for the reason that VU nor Carlson has mentioned these accomplishments. Congrats to them!
perhaps there is some news brewing at the ARC?
Quote from: covufan on November 30, 2012, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 30, 2012, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: laura on November 29, 2012, 10:05:47 PM
College Sports Madness ( USA Today subsidiary) came out with its post season All-Conference Team. Four Crusaders made the team. Greg Wood Senior -Punter. Jake Hutson Redhirt Freshman-Running Back, Patrick Derbak Junior- Linebacker andBill Bodzianowski Senior-OL. So we have two All-Conference players returning, one on Offense and one on Defense. These are our building blocks. While other schools have press releases about these athletes who have been honored...Carlson still has his Davidson Blog up...just embarassing....on his part.
Nice to know. A bit more info and the link.
Wood 1st Team D
Hutson 2nd Team O
Derbak 3rd Team D
Bodzianowski 3rd Team O
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/5487 (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/5487)
Thanks for the info and the link!
It might be that "College Sports Madness" is not a major publication, or that the PFL voted teams has not been released yet, for the reason that VU nor Carlson has mentioned these accomplishments. Congrats to them!
Don't think so. Morehead State had a big release about 10 of its players being recognized by College Sports Madness.
The athletic department was a little slower than Morehead, but here's the link to the Valpo College Sports recognition:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2012-13/12220/four-crusaders-honored-by-college-sports-madness/ (http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2012-13/12220/four-crusaders-honored-by-college-sports-madness/)
Our Sports Info department might have been slow about it because they had other things being worked on, or whomever is in charge of the football news might have been getting ready to travel, if it's Aaron, he might have been on the road to St. Louis, or had another sport they were traveling with and didn't get the info about this College Sports Madness list right away? I'm being a tad more patient with this corps of Sports Information staff because it is Aaron who has been working without a full-time staff for awhile, then was handed two Grad student interns to finish out the 2012-2013 season, until the AD can find a new SID to be full-time with Aaron.
Yessir. Aaron's kicking butt, but he's only got two feet. The guy must not sleep.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 26, 2012, 09:31:00 AMHere's a kind of season wrap-up by John Mutka. The focus is on punter Greg Wood, who has pro scouts looking at him, but it also goes into the outlook for the future. Here's one quote from the article: "So why 1-and-10? The Crusaders were outscored 334-84 in the first half. Playing from behind is not recommended for a coach seeking a long shelf life, but athletic director Mark LaBarbera believes the Crusaders are headed in the right direction against a schedule which no longer welcomes Division III pushovers." :-X There's a lot of mention at how young the Crusaders were. :snore: Here's the link to the full article: http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16618887-556/mutka-vu-punter-greg-wood-getting-pro-attention.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16618887-556/mutka-vu-punter-greg-wood-getting-pro-attention.html)
If the administration truly looked at this season with an open mind it is impossible in my opinion to say the program is improving. The average score at halftime was 30 to 7, the games were over at halftime and the other teams showed us mercy. We gave up over 500 yards of offense in 5 games and over 600 yards in three more. The stats from games are embarrassing. Youngstown State seven first half touchdowns, Dayton 631 yards of offense for a school record. Dayton with 473 yards rushing another Dayton record and a Pioneer Football Conference record. Marist four touchdowns over 75 yards and the longest play in Marist football history. Morehead State most points scored against a div. 1 opponent in school history and five touchdowns of 50 yards or more. The administration needs to take responsibility of the situation and do whatever it takes to improve the program. The young men playing for Valpo deserve the best that Valparaiso can give them. The players have committed to Valpo and its time that Valpo steps up to the plate to give these young men a program they can be proud of!
Quote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 08:44:38 AMOur Sports Info department might have been slow about it because they had other things being worked on, or whomever is in charge of the football news might have been getting ready to travel, if it's Aaron, he might have been on the road to St. Louis, or had another sport they were traveling with and didn't get the info about this College Sports Madness list right away? I'm being a tad more patient with this corps of Sports Information staff because it is Aaron who has been working without a full-time staff for awhile, then was handed two Grad student interns to finish out the 2012-2013 season, until the AD can find a new SID to be full-time with Aaron.
For good management practices, is it possible that Carlson can be the SID and we can find a new coach? We fill a position and we have an open slot for the head coach. Just trying to be creative.
usc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
Please, lighten up run. Smile, have a little fun over a pathetic situation.
You hire people to provide a service to do a job. Carlson is not meeting the expectations to do this job. Also, effective leadership do not need to be experts in a specific discipline, but effective leadership make decisions to bring in experts to resolve situations.
How do you support the situation Valpo is in right now? Also, the "why can't you do the job" and armchair QB explanations are a copout. There are many, many coaching candidates out there. The excuse that "you are not the coach, you are not there" is a lame remark. The football program is 2-31! It needs change and the university is not doing a thing about it. I don't having to be Bill Belicheck to know that change is required.
BTW, I do care about Valpo, it is a great school but this situation is embarrassing. In you want a high level perspective, my coworkers who are Valpo alums laugh about the situation and could care less. They ask why there is football at Valpo in the first place. When you see this, some level of change is required. The problem is that the university is terribly ineffective resolving a $4M to $5M annual issue.
Quote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
usc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
True, the job isn't technically open but I think at least some posters on here have come to the conclusion we're just waiting out the clock. Count me in that category. Even if USC4Valpo is the worst armchair quarterback ever, what are they going to lose, 2 more games in three years? Not a real big drop off there. 0-33 isn't very different from 2-31.
And what exactly has Carlson shown as an on the field coach? How to get annihilated in the first half? It's not like they're losing close games, they're getting crushed right out of the box.
The reality is, when you are historically bad, people will speculate about your job and who to replace you with. If he were 31-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 02, 2012, 08:38:29 AM
Please, lighten up run. Smile, have a little fun over a pathetic situation.
You hire people to provide a service to do a job. Carlson is not meeting the expectations to do this job. Also, effective leadership do not need to be experts in a specific discipline, but effective leadership make decisions to bring in experts to resolve situations.
How do you support the situation Valpo is in right now? Also, the "why can't you do the job" and armchair QB explanations are a copout. There are many, many coaching candidates out there. The excuse that "you are not the coach, you are not there" is a lame remark. The football program is 2-31! It needs change and the university is not doing a thing about it. I don't having to be Bill Belicheck to know that change is required.
BTW, I do care about Valpo, it is a great school but this situation is embarrassing. In you want a high level perspective, my coworkers who are Valpo alums laugh about the situation and could care less. They ask why there is football at Valpo in the first place. When you see this, some level of change is required. The problem is that the university is terribly ineffective resolving a $4M to $5M annual issue.
My wife is a former employee and alum, and she thinks the same thing. I get jokes about it at work too. Heck, when Valpo was winning a game I actually got texts and phone calls asking if Valpo was really winning. Not exactly good for the brand image now is it?
Did I expect more improvement in '12? Yes. Would I like to see Valpo football competitive in the PFL? Absolutely. I admit that seeing the scores, especially the first quarter or first half scores, is demoralizing. I also know that I'm not close enough to the program to get a feel for if the program is moving the the right direction. Based on the W-L and Points for/against criteria, I would expect more in the third year of this coach. I also know that Horne was not very successful in his first three seasons, and was allowed to continue. Many of Horne's following 13 years were within one game of 0.500 or above. If the AD is looking beyond W-L record - quality of recruits, relationship of staff and players, players giving their all, etc. - then I'll give the AD some room, as we've chosen the AD to make these decisions. Overall, I'm very happy with the AD and the improvement of all other VU sports.
I'm sure that the AD and coach Carlson are very aware of the short leash for 2013. We can't have another 1-10 year, and with two new programs to the PFL and two other new coaches, 3-8 might not be good enough either.
Time for basketball, then baseball, then looking at our 2013 football recruits.
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 11:25:16 AMQuote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 09:22:24 PMusc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
True, the job isn't technically open but I think at least some posters on here have come to the conclusion we're just waiting out the clock. Count me in that category. Even if USC4Valpo is the worst armchair quarterback ever, what are they going to lose, 2 more games in three years? Not a real big drop off there. 0-33 isn't very different from 2-31. And what exactly has Carlson shown as an on the field coach? How to get annihilated in the first half? It's not like they're losing close games, they're getting crushed right out of the box. The reality is, when you are historically bad, people will speculate about your job and who to replace you with. If he were 31-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Thanks for praising my capabilitiies of being a great armchair QB!
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 03, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 11:25:16 AMQuote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 09:22:24 PMusc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
True, the job isn't technically open but I think at least some posters on here have come to the conclusion we're just waiting out the clock. Count me in that category. Even if USC4Valpo is the worst armchair quarterback ever, what are they going to lose, 2 more games in three years? Not a real big drop off there. 0-33 isn't very different from 2-31. And what exactly has Carlson shown as an on the field coach? How to get annihilated in the first half? It's not like they're losing close games, they're getting crushed right out of the box. The reality is, when you are historically bad, people will speculate about your job and who to replace you with. If he were 31-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Thanks for praising my capabilities of being a great armchair QB!
Thought you might get a kick out of that! :lol:
It's all good.
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 03, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 11:25:16 AMQuote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 09:22:24 PMusc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
True, the job isn't technically open but I think at least some posters on here have come to the conclusion we're just waiting out the clock. Count me in that category. Even if USC4Valpo is the worst armchair quarterback ever, what are they going to lose, 2 more games in three years? Not a real big drop off there. 0-33 isn't very different from 2-31. And what exactly has Carlson shown as an on the field coach? How to get annihilated in the first half? It's not like they're losing close games, they're getting crushed right out of the box. The reality is, when you are historically bad, people will speculate about your job and who to replace you with. If he were 31-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Thanks for praising my capabilities of being a great armchair QB!
Thought you might get a kick out of that! :lol:
I guess I'm still looking for that "kick"-er?
Quote from: valporun on December 03, 2012, 06:56:25 PMQuote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 03:26:13 PMQuote from: usc4valpo on December 03, 2012, 01:35:03 PMQuote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 11:25:16 AMQuote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 09:22:24 PMusc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
True, the job isn't technically open but I think at least some posters on here have come to the conclusion we're just waiting out the clock. Count me in that category. Even if USC4Valpo is the worst armchair quarterback ever, what are they going to lose, 2 more games in three years? Not a real big drop off there. 0-33 isn't very different from 2-31. And what exactly has Carlson shown as an on the field coach? How to get annihilated in the first half? It's not like they're losing close games, they're getting crushed right out of the box. The reality is, when you are historically bad, people will speculate about your job and who to replace you with. If he were 31-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Thanks for praising my capabilities of being a great armchair QB!
Thought you might get a kick out of that! :lol:
I guess I'm still looking for that "kick"-er?
nice pun!
"
Laughter is the valve on the pressure cooker of life. Either you laugh and suffer, or you got your beans or brains on the ceiling. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/wavygravy359149.html)
Wavy Gravy
Quote from: valporun on December 03, 2012, 06:56:25 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 03, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 03, 2012, 11:25:16 AMQuote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 09:22:24 PMusc, why you don't put in your resume to be the next head coach of Valpo football? Oh wait, THE JOB ISN'T OPEN!! Until it is, if it becomes open, quit trying to fill a position with your gibberish about how you seem to be a better armchair football coach than Coach Carlson has shown as an on-field coach to this point.
True, the job isn't technically open but I think at least some posters on here have come to the conclusion we're just waiting out the clock. Count me in that category. Even if USC4Valpo is the worst armchair quarterback ever, what are they going to lose, 2 more games in three years? Not a real big drop off there. 0-33 isn't very different from 2-31. And what exactly has Carlson shown as an on the field coach? How to get annihilated in the first half? It's not like they're losing close games, they're getting crushed right out of the box. The reality is, when you are historically bad, people will speculate about your job and who to replace you with. If he were 31-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Thanks for praising my capabilities of being a great armchair QB!
Thought you might get a kick out of that! :lol:
I guess I'm still looking for that "kick"-er?
Well played!
Been following all the different college FB playoffs [ FB junkie that I am ] & there are some pretty good teams in Indiana. D-3 Franklin was pretty dang good, Indianapolis had a salty D-2 team, Butler is pretty good & on upswing for PFL & NAIA, how about Marian ? We should be able to put together a good team, gotta be all about recruiting. Let's hope coach brings in some good players this year to go with what we have coming back.
Anyone hear anything on recruiting? Most scholarship schools should be pretty much finished by now.
PFL teams don't comment on recruits until their deposits are in and that's around May.
Quote from: new2ff on December 14, 2012, 09:59:26 AMAnyone hear anything on recruiting? Most scholarship schools should be pretty much finished by now.
Not really, it is just getting interesting. Coaches have a few more days until a 3 week quiet period, where they can't contact the recruit by phone or in person. Until signing day (early Feb), everything is in play. With some kids not committing until signing day, other schools that were in the mix now have to sign another player, and so on it goes. Some recruits are waiting to hear back from the top tier schools (if a scholarship opens) before signing with a lower BCS school, and so on...
Recruiting for the scholarship schools are just getting warmed up - far from over.
Quote from: covufan on December 14, 2012, 06:10:36 PM
Quote from: new2ff on December 14, 2012, 09:59:26 AMAnyone hear anything on recruiting? Most scholarship schools should be pretty much finished by now.
Not really, it is just getting interesting. Coaches have a few more days until a 3 week quiet period, where they can't contact the recruit by phone or in person. Until signing day (early Feb), everything is in play. With some kids not committing until signing day, other schools that were in the mix now have to sign another player, and so on it goes. Some recruits are waiting to hear back from the top tier schools (if a scholarship opens) before signing with a lower BCS school, and so on...
Recruiting for the scholarship schools are just getting warmed up - far from over.
You are right, guess I meant that we should pretty much know those being recruited or with intentions to go D-I or II.
I hope we are not waiting until February to make the decisions on who we are going after. there should already be a number of players on our radar & hopefully the coaches spent some time under the Friday night lights watching them.
For my skilled positions [ including LB/DB ], I'd look for kids that make plays/players.
I always get a kick out of coaches that put so much value in size, speed or even to some extend where kids played & miss out on " good football players".
I remember Zach Thomas that walked on at TT & ended up leading the big 12 in tackles 2-3 times & still didn't get picked until the late rounds of NFL [ too short, too small, too slow ] LOL, guess the fact that he could tackle missed the coaches eye somehow [ think he was All-Pro a few Times ]
There was a FB Twitter tweet about the staff being on the recruiting trail in early December. But, as I said earlier, the dust in scholarship D-IAA and to some extent D-II has to settle out and signing periods are exhausted before the PFL can begin to see real commitments and they are prevented from identifying signees until the enrollment deposits are in hand -- therefore, as in the past, we won't know who is coming to VU until May. Some of the recruiting sites, however, have listings of kids' interests and in some cases Valpo gets a mention.
Hope they go to the JCs and land a couple of skill position difference makers. I don't know what is legal in regard to FCS scholarship Xfers but would love to see a couple come on board as well. Butler QB Lancaster was one such player -- help turn Butler around in one year.
it is amazing how many lives this topic has.
I think Valpo will get student who think education first and play football more as a extracurricular activity, well at least I hope so. If they are not taking this approach, then they are obviosuly making a bad decision.
Lord, I hope they readjust and not go status quo.
UPDATE: I went to FB Facebook. Apparently they had a visitation weekend recently and landed their first verbal commitment for the class of 2013.
After watching several bowl games this long weekend, two were of special note to me: Northern Illinois v. FSU and Stanford v. Wisconsin. In both cases "staying close" by playing tough defense made both games interesting.
In the case of the Rose Bowl, it allowed Stanford (the #6 US News National University behind only Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Columbia -- pretty strong academic place) to win a hard fought battle by playing intense defense against a much bigger and more powerful team in Wisconsin. Here is a USAToday link to a story about that:
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40826500/ (http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40826500/)
The second was the gutsy performance by the Huskies. They were overmatched, no doubt about that (kinda like a PFL team going up against a top rated FCS scholarship team), but all the way into the third quarter they were within a touchdown of Florida State and even threatening to take over the game's momentum in the third quarter. They eventually lost 31-10. But 31-10 is a respectable defeat (unlike our 2012 59-0 YSU score) and showed they could compete. More important, it showed that "staying close" by keeping the Points Against number low is a way of always putting yourself within reach of a win.
SO........ My New Year's Resolution is to continually hope that in 2013, the Valpo football coaching staff FINALLY wakes up to the reality that so many of us have pointed to in various forms and that has been reinforced by so many games like the Rose Bowl, or NIU, or little Wagner making a run into the second round of the FCS playoffs: to win games, the defense must stop people and keep scores close enough to allow the offense (I don't care what system it is) to win it.
62, good analysis...but although Stanford may be a bit smaller, be assured that they are a very strong, powerful team. They can play football in the trenches with anyone and are obviously very well coached, whether it was Harbaugh or currently Shaw. One thing I observed was how well they gang tackle and how they show proper tackling techniques. USC, Valpo and other football schools should review this game to review tackling fundmentals.
One other thing to note about the game - Stanford's TE's are truly outstanding (not outstanding as described by Lou Holtz) in all areas.
Overall, the Rose Bowl was a pleasure to watch, both teams were prepared and played well.
Agree with 62, defense keeps you in games, just look at Butler's basketball team. Their in your face defense keeps teams close and allows for unusual funny bounces and good shooting to win close games.
Football is no different. We need to try to attract better speed and size, something everybody already knows.
Gamecocks beat the wolverines,bulldogs beat the huskers and Clemson & Gtech also win. Point: :PCarlson needs to do some recruiting down here in SC & Ga.Problem though:who in their right mind would leave the SE in order to play ball in NWI? Only fools rush in. GO COCKS!
Quote from: setshot on January 02, 2013, 06:44:05 PM
Gamecocks beat the wolverines,bulldogs beat the huskers and Clemson & Gtech also win. Point: :PCarlson needs to do some recruiting down here in SC & Ga.Problem though:who in their right mind would leave the SE in order to play ball in NWI? Only fools rush in. GO COCKS!
I'm sure Campbell and Davidson are wondering about that talent as well. Now Mercer will help to dilute that pool some more.
Hard-nosed football players are everywhere, not just in the warm climates. Valpo has got to find them wherever they are and play some freakin defense.
Also, get all players in the Niels Science Center, turn on the Rose Bowl tape, and watch Stanford defense tackling technique. Quit flopping and play fundamental football.