Besides valpo it seems as though the horizon league is down this year...including detroit.
Quote from: truth219 on November 27, 2012, 08:04:43 PM
Besides valpo it seems as though the horizon league is down this year...including detroit.
Not sure I agree, although Detroit's loss to Bowling Green is a little telling, as well as Milwaukee's loss to Rider.
Nonetheless the conference is 30-20 and is ranked 12th, out of 32, by Sagarin, the same as last year's final rankings, and ahead of conferences like the MAC, Sun Belt, Ohio Valley, Summit and many others. We are just behind Conference USA.
There have been some nice wins and some blown opportunities, but 12th isn't bad if we can maintain it till conference play starts.
If anybody knows the record against BCS teams, that would be a good indicator.
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 28, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
If anybody knows the record against BCS teams, that would be a good indicator.
Valpo: 0-1 (obv)
Cleve: 0-1 (UM; NC St pending)
UIC: 0-0 (NW pending)
Milw: 0-1 (SCar; DePaul pending...since the Big East is still a BCS conf for now)
[
EXCURSUS: how much value does the "BCS" label--a FOOTBALL label--really have in a basketball discussion? but i digress.]
Detroit: 0-1 (Miami; Pitt, Syr, Temple pending)
WSU: 0-1 (Utah; Cinn pending)
WGB: 0-0 (UVa, Wisc, Marq pending)
YSU: 1-0!!! (Georgia; USF pending)
Loyola: 0-1 (USF; MSU, MSU ((MI & MS)), DePaul pending)
SUMMARY: 1-7 (thanks YSU) with 14 (!!) pending
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 29, 2012, 10:59:59 AM
SUMMARY: 1-6 (thanks YSU) with 14 (!!) pending
I think it's 1-7 ... looks like you missed the Detroit loss to St. Johns.
According to this website, http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-conf-rpi.html (http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-conf-rpi.html) , Horizon is 30-22 against DI opponents. That's not horrible, but it is somewhat alarming that the SOS is currently at #33 (last).
I think that will improve as the December schedules for most teams look a little stronger, but it's not real encouraging right now. On a positive note, even if the SOS doesn't improve significantly, the league can improve its RPI (and I expect it will) by merely winning basketball games.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 29, 2012, 02:05:20 PMThat's not horrible, but it is somewhat alarming that the SOS is currently at #33 (last).
Interesting! I wouldn't have guessed it. Realtimerpi confirms.
Quote from: agibson on November 29, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 29, 2012, 02:05:20 PMThat's not horrible, but it is somewhat alarming that the SOS is currently at #33 (last).
Interesting! I wouldn't have guessed it. Realtimerpi confirms.
Horizon at #32 SOS in realtimerpi ... it appears that they refuse to recognize the existence of the Great West conference and show those teams (like Chicago State) as "Independent".
Is that one of those leagues that included New Jersey Tech with North Dakota or something like that?
I guess they were pioneers before the Big Ten "footprint" was expanded to the east.
As has been noted elsewhere, RPI is not a great measure for rating teams, especially early on in the season. Prefer much more the Sagarin ratings (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin.htm (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin.htm)) or the Basketball State rankings (http://www.bbstate.com/standings/2013/thestate (http://www.bbstate.com/standings/2013/thestate)).
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 29, 2012, 04:59:26 PM
Is that one of those leagues that included New Jersey Tech with North Dakota or something like that?
I guess they were pioneers before the Big Ten "footprint" was expanded to the east.
Watch out! NJIT is 4-2 with wins over New Hamp & S.Carolina State. They take on St. John's Saturday 12/1. Actually played SC State twice in 6 days and split with them. Of course now that I have spoken about their upturn they are sure to lose all their remaining games. :lol:
Lots of good HL games this weekend. Opportunity to move those rankings up.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 29, 2012, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 28, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
If anybody knows the record against BCS teams, that would be a good indicator.
Valpo: 0-1 (obv)
Cleve: 0-1 (UM; NC St pending)
UIC: 0-0 (NW pending)
Milw: 0-1 (SCar; DePaul pending...since the Big East is still a BCS conf for now)
[EXCURSUS: how much value does the "BCS" label--a FOOTBALL label--really have in a basketball discussion? but i digress.]
Detroit: 0-1 (Miami; Pitt, Syr, Temple pending)
WSU: 0-1 (Utah; Cinn pending)
WGB: 0-0 (UVa, Wisc, Marq pending)
YSU: 1-0!!! (Georgia; USF pending)
Loyola: 0-1 (USF; MSU, MSU ((MI & MS)), DePaul pending)
SUMMARY: 1-6 (thanks YSU) with 14 (!!) pending
I don't know how much value the label has, but it's certainly easier than typing...how does the Horizon League stack up against the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, and the SEC.
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 30, 2012, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 29, 2012, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 28, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
If anybody knows the record against BCS teams, that would be a good indicator.
Valpo: 0-1 (obv)
Cleve: 0-1 (UM; NC St pending)
UIC: 0-0 (NW pending)
Milw: 0-1 (SCar; DePaul pending...since the Big East is still a BCS conf for now)
[EXCURSUS: how much value does the "BCS" label--a FOOTBALL label--really have in a basketball discussion? but i digress.]
Detroit: 0-1 (Miami; Pitt, Syr, Temple pending)
WSU: 0-1 (Utah; Cinn pending)
WGB: 0-0 (UVa, Wisc, Marq pending)
YSU: 1-0!!! (Georgia; USF pending)
Loyola: 0-1 (USF; MSU, MSU ((MI & MS)), DePaul pending)
SUMMARY: 1-6 (thanks YSU) with 14 (!!) pending
I don't know how much value the label has, but it's certainly easier than typing...how does the Horizon League stack up against the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, and the SEC.
... and MWC and CUSA
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 01, 2012, 12:24:33 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 30, 2012, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 29, 2012, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 28, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
If anybody knows the record against BCS teams, that would be a good indicator.
Valpo: 0-1 (obv)
Cleve: 0-1 (UM; NC St pending)
UIC: 0-0 (NW pending)
Milw: 0-1 (SCar; DePaul pending...since the Big East is still a BCS conf for now)
[EXCURSUS: how much value does the "BCS" label--a FOOTBALL label--really have in a basketball discussion? but i digress.]
Detroit: 0-1 (Miami; Pitt, Syr, Temple pending)
WSU: 0-1 (Utah; Cinn pending)
WGB: 0-0 (UVa, Wisc, Marq pending)
YSU: 1-0!!! (Georgia; USF pending)
Loyola: 0-1 (USF; MSU, MSU ((MI & MS)), DePaul pending)
SUMMARY: 1-6 (thanks YSU) with 14 (!!) pending
I don't know how much value the label has, but it's certainly easier than typing...how does the Horizon League stack up against the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, and the SEC.
... and MWC and CUSA
I personally don't care to much about CUSA or the MVC for this purpose. Comparing against other mid majors isn't relevant for the perception of the HL. While we all know the quality of both those conferences, the general public and ESPN doesn't make too much mention if Valpo beats Missouri State.
Now you guys have me confused. I'm not a football fan, but the six BCS automatic qualifying conferences are the usual "Power 6", mentioned above, right? ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, and the SEC.
The Mountain West (not the Missouri Valley) and CUSA have status somewhat above other non-BCS conferences, but no more so than the MAC, the Sun Belt, and the WAC.
Am I missing something? Or were you just tossing in two of the better-at-basketball almost-BCS conferences? While leaving out the WAC, and (probably understandably) the MAC and Sun Belt?
That was me. Honestly, I thought maybe MWC and CUSA were somehow BCS in football. I wouldn't know since I could care less about even watching a college football game, much less understand the BCS. In basketball, those are 2 of the 8 conferences above the Red Line. They may be in their infancy in that regard, but I do lump them in with the other 6.
As I've remembered it, the BCS consists of the Big 12, B1G Ten, SEC, ACC, Big East, and PAC-12, plus Notre Dame because of their impact on the money aspect of television college football. After that, the MWC, C-USA, WAC, and those football conferences are the "low-majors" of the full NCAA D-IA scholarship programs in football. What we'll essentially see from the BCS, once the playoff system is implemented, MEGA CONFERENCES, and that playoff will be bigger than 4 or 8-teams, more like 16 to 32, so the NCAA can get a nice, expansive television money deal out of it, and leave the bowl games for the teams that don't make the playoffs, thereby killing the bowl games due to lack of attendance or interest from the teams that don't wind up in the playoff system.
Quote from: bbtds on November 30, 2012, 04:04:51 PMWatch out! NJIT is 4-2 with wins over New Hamp & S.Carolina State. They take on St. John's Saturday 12/1. Actually played SC State twice in 6 days and split with them. Of course now that I have spoken about their upturn they are sure to lose all their remaining games.
Exciting game between NJIT and St John's. NJIT was up by 12 at half and the Red Storm have come "storming" back? NJIT up by 1 in middle of 2nd half. This tells us more about Detroit and the rest of the Horizon League. Valpo truly needs the wins over St Louis, Murray State & Missouri State.
It's only Northwestern, but great to see UIC win on the road. And, hey, Northwestern was 6-1 (and #25 at BBstate? That may be approximately as mysterious as UIC's #41). The league's 4-0 so far today, and with Loyola up by two at home, at the half. But, the last three games of the day may be a little touger...
Loyola pulls out a 77-50 victory over Furman. Make it 5-0 so far, and Green Bay is playing Virginia closely, 31-27 in favor of the Cavaliers at halftime.
Green Bay hanging with Virginia, 27-31 at the half.
I'd like to see Milwaukee take it to Northern Iowa tonight, as well as Detroit at Pitt.
Loyola is slaughtering Furman.
Green Bay falls to Virginia, 67-51. So much expectation for Green Bay to be good this year, and they seem to be falling apart in games they should do well in. Hope they can turn this cold streak around.
I think people from Green Bay are more comfortable than most in a "cold streak."
Quote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 05:00:58 PM
Green Bay falls to Virginia, 67-51. So much expectation for Green Bay to be good this year, and they seem to be falling apart in games they should do well in. Hope they can turn this cold streak around.
It doesn't do the league any good if they wait to turn it around after conference play starts. That's what Detroit did last year (and so far this year).
Quote from: wh on December 01, 2012, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: valporun on December 01, 2012, 05:00:58 PM
Green Bay falls to Virginia, 67-51. So much expectation for Green Bay to be good this year, and they seem to be falling apart in games they should do well in. Hope they can turn this cold streak around.
It doesn't do the league any good if they wait to turn it around after conference play starts. That's what Detroit did last year (and so far this year).
Yep, completely agree. Way too late to gain any national respect by then. 1 win over a BCS team isn't a very good showing.
Quote from: wh on December 01, 2012, 05:33:31 PMThat's what Detroit did last year (and so far this year).
Detroit 37, Pitt 29 at the half. Color me surprised.
Well, we couldn't hold on @ Pitt and fell to another BC$ team.
However, I would also like to provide some caution to this thread so early in the season.
Outside of your Nebraska and Kent State games, the combined W-L total of your remaining opponents (against DI) is 2-23. I do realize that several of your opponents had to play the same opponent, negating each other out.
Last year @ Dec 5, Milwaukee was sitting at 8-1, with their only loss at Michigan State. This included a victory against DePaul.
It is great when the league can do so well, but we really need to stop scheduling the NIU and Chicago States until they rise to the top of their respective conferences.
I'm confused about our 2-23 comment, hopefully I'm not the only one. Looking at Murray State and New Mexico they have at least 12 wins against D1 opponents with only 1 loss.
He was speaking about the other 4 games we have already played, outside of Kent and Nebraska
Quote from: valpotx on December 02, 2012, 10:27:48 AM
He was speaking about the other 4 games we have already played, outside of Kent and Nebraska
Anyone can pick and choose. If you take Kent, Nebraska, Murray State & New Mexico their records are 22-5. Also 4 teams. So what?
Take out those games against Kent, Nebraska, Murray State, New Mexico, and possibly St. Louis, and our RPI TANKS!! We need the other teams we've played, Georgia Southern, NIU, Bethune, Chicago St., IPFW, and IUPUI, to win games. Most of the teams outside of the big ones we're playing, are getting slammed in guarantee matchups for the payday. I understand we can't schedule some of the teams that we want to help our RPI, but the teams we do schedule, or get matched up with in the tournaments, need to WIN GAMES. Sure, Oakland is reloading, but we need these other mid-majors to start turning things around and start winning games against the opponents that they should "on paper" beat by a few points or soundly.
Valporun,
Thanks for understanding what I was saying.
Anyway- Good Luck against what should be a fired up St. Louis team today.
I went through our schedule to look at the records of the teams we're playing in non-conference, looking at their overall wins/losses, and their D-I wins/losses that affect the RPI ranking. I have it on a Word file, so I'll post it here, but the overall record is 19-44, and the D-I only is 9-43. This took the parameters of not including Kent St., Nebraska, Murray State, New Mexico, and St. Louis. I can do another one in a little bit that only focuses on the top teams we're playing, but I just wanted to focus on the lower teams for now, because we really need them to win some games to help our RPI.
Of the teams in D-I that we've played so far, the overall record is 7-23, but D-I only, we're looking at 3-22 because Northern Illinois and Chicago St. haven't won ANY D-I games yet. This is where motowntitan was getting his "2-23" comment from.
Quote from: motowntitan on December 02, 2012, 12:32:37 PM
Valporun,
Thanks for understanding what I was saying.
Anyway- Good Luck against what should be a fired up St. Louis team today.
Not a problem, motown. I do what I can, just not willing to keep drinking the kool-aid of this team getting an at-large bid, when the teams we need to have winning games ARE NOT HELPING US in the RPI rankings.
Quote from: valporun on December 02, 2012, 12:45:12 PM
Quote from: motowntitan on December 02, 2012, 12:32:37 PM
Valporun,
Thanks for understanding what I was saying.
Anyway- Good Luck against what should be a fired up St. Louis team today.
Not a problem, motown. I do what I can, just not willing to keep drinking the kool-aid of this team getting an at-large bid, when the teams we need to have winning games ARE NOT HELPING US in the RPI rankings.
Unfortunately, it is looking bleaker and bleaker by the game. I was really hoping Detroit would finish it off (Oakland blew it even worse at Pitt, if I recall correctly), and I certainly think the Green Bay game looked winnable as well. Of course, we slipped up at Nebraska. It also doesn't help that Milwaukee couldn't get past UNI. And we need to take down SLU today and continue on that same path the rest of the way. Even if at-large is diminishing to a microbe on the horizon, seeding can still be impacted.
Baby steps, folks.
The reality is the Horizon League just isn't very good this year. The two teams that were supposed to carry the conference this season...haven't. Valpo beats bottom feeders as demonstrated by their opponents record and Detroit is well, Detroit. Talented but maddeningly inconsistent even within the game. There's no at large bid for anybody in this league, and the goal now is to not be a 16 seed for whoever gets into the Dance.