The University of Wisconsin-Green Bay has opened an investigation of men's basketball coach Brian Wardle after the school received a complaint from the parents of a former player, alleging mistreatment.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130411/GPG020110/130411080/UWGB-opens-investigation-men-s-basketball-coach?odyssey=tab (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130411/GPG020110/130411080/UWGB-opens-investigation-men-s-basketball-coach?odyssey=tab)|topnews|text|&nclick_check=1
Saw that too. Makes sense, Kam Cerroni quit mid-season and he saw pretty regular playing time.
Sultan Muhammad announced he was transferring, he also saw regular playing time.
And the 7' 1" Bross kid, who was redshirted this season is transferring.
Not too surprised that something popped up. Most players don't just quit mid-season for no good reason. Thought GB was going to have a better season than they did, perhaps Wardle played a big roll in their underachieving season.
No matter the results of the investigation, this most likely will weaken Green Bay since it can hurt the recruiting of new players to replace the ones who have left.
Good news for us with us probably not getting an MVC invite because of facilities ;)
The kid's parents had to speak up for him? Come on. You're a 7'1 adult.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130411/GPG020110/130411080/UWGB-opens-investigation-men-s-basketball-coach-Wardle?nclick_check=1 (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130411/GPG020110/130411080/UWGB-opens-investigation-men-s-basketball-coach-Wardle?nclick_check=1)
couldn't get your link to work for me...
QuoteSince mid-February, four players have left the UWGB program. Guard Kam Cerroni left on Feb. 14, citing differences with Wardle. Shortly after the season, [7'1" center Ryan] Bross and fellow freshman Nick Arenz, who played little last season, announced their decisions to leave. On Monday, junior guard Sultan Muhammad was granted his release. Muhammad, who started all but 10 games last season, said he wanted to transfer closer to his home in Grand Rapids, Mich., because of a family matter, although he declined to discuss the matter.
also instructive:
QuoteWardle, 33, has a 47-49 record in three seasons. He is coming off his best season, going 18-16 and finishing tied for third in the Horizon League. He has four more years remaining on his contract, which pays him a base salary of $133,132 plus another $70,000 in extra income. Wardle, who was the youngest coach in Division I at age 30 when he was hired in 2010, originally signed a five-year contract. He was given one-year extensions before each of the previous two seasons.
Quote from: a3uge on April 11, 2013, 09:46:03 PM
The kid's parents had to speak up for him? Come on. You're a 7'1 adult.
(http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/87361_n9WmaWe9Nw6QjcC.jpg)
For what it's worth (probably not much):
Wardle used the F-word on the sidelines in both games at the ARC - mostly when angry over a call/no call, twice that we observed when angrily lecturing a player. Seemed like a pretty natural part of his vocabulary. Doesn't make him a bad person - on the other hand, I wouldn't have a hard time picturing him using obscenity-laced tirades during practices.
By Wardle's own admission (kind of), GB's defensive scheme on the Ryan game-winning shot was terrible. To allow Ryan to dribble all the way from the other end of the court unimpeded instead of forcing him to dribble through defenders and eat up clock was totally inept. Relevance: On his way back to the locker room he should have been saying, "I'm an F-ing idiot, I'm an F-ing idiot, I'm an F-ing idiot..." ;)
Quote from: wh on April 12, 2013, 07:22:07 AMon the other hand, I wouldn't have a hard time picturing him using obscenity-laced tirades during practices
good. point.
if you'd use that word in front of several thousand people and televised, how much would you use it behind closed doors in front of two dozen?
the worst part will come when we as a society reach the point where no one sees that as a big deal any more.
or have we already?
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 12, 2013, 07:40:21 AM
Quote from: wh on April 12, 2013, 07:22:07 AMon the other hand, I wouldn't have a hard time picturing him using obscenity-laced tirades during practices
good. point.
if you'd use that word in front of several thousand people and televised, how much would you use it behind closed doors in front of two dozen?
the worst part will come when we as a society reach the point where no one sees that as a big deal any more.
or have we already?
Coach K, who is one of the greatest of all times, curses like a sailor and has his whole career. Does anyone think less of Coach K because of it? Honest question.
Here is an article on him that even mentions us!
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0306COACHK_226 (http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0306COACHK_226)
QuoteAnd here was a coach who had most foully cursed everyone around him for the last twenty-five years. He cussed like a man whose mouth was on fire. He was a Chicago foundry spitting out hot nuggets of :censored: ! and :censored: ! and :censored: ! at officials, rival coaches, even--most especially--his own players. The injustice of life spewed out of him like the spray from a hydrant wrenched open in the summertime. He liked for his teams to stomp on even the weakest of opponents--the Valparaisos, the Bucknells, the Harvards--and he would curse them as they breathed their last.
If it's just a case of Wardle swearing then I don't see what the big deal is. Many, many, many coaches swear like truck drivers. As long as he isn't abusing his players then swearing isn't too big of a deal and if some people have a problem with it then suck it up and deal with it. They're all adults and if when he is passionate he swears then who cares!?
Yes, if he is singling out players and verbally abusing them or just flat out abusing them, then there's an issue and action should be taken on the behalf of Green Bay.
Coaches can get away with the cussing thing but I have never found anything particularly appealing or becoming about it. It's a primitive, inarticulate way of showing anger or expressing frustration. It is not a desirable quality in today's business world for people who aspire to advance to the executive level. It is becoming increasingly less acceptable as the baby boomer dinasours continue to exit the workforce.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 12, 2013, 09:57:42 AMYes, if he is singling out players and verbally abusing them
Kind of hard to verbally abuse without swearing. Not impossible, just difficult to do "well".
Quote from: wh on April 12, 2013, 10:31:06 AMIt's a primitive, inarticulate way of showing anger or expressing frustration. It is not a desirable quality in today's business world for people who aspire to advance to the executive level.
Amen to this, although I don't know that it's becoming less acceptable.
Quote from: valpo04 on April 12, 2013, 08:27:04 AMCoach K, who is one of the greatest of all times, curses like a sailor and has his whole career. Does anyone think less of Coach K because of it? Honest question.
I didn't know that, but I certainly do.
Particularly because it causes cognitive dissonance when one thinks of his image, both physical and in the abstract.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 12, 2013, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 12, 2013, 09:57:42 AMYes, if he is singling out players and verbally abusing them
Kind of hard to verbally abuse without swearing. Not impossible, just difficult to do "well".
Quote from: wh on April 12, 2013, 10:31:06 AMIt's a primitive, inarticulate way of showing anger or expressing frustration. It is not a desirable quality in today's business world for people who aspire to advance to the executive level.
Amen to this, although I don't know that it's becoming less acceptable.
Quote from: valpo04 on April 12, 2013, 08:27:04 AMCoach K, who is one of the greatest of all times, curses like a sailor and has his whole career. Does anyone think less of Coach K because of it? Honest question.
I didn't know that, but I certainly do. Particularly because it causes cognitive dissonance when one thinks of his image, both physical and in the abstract.
I am talking about cussing becoming less acceptable in the workplace, not society at large. Here is an interesting article about the risks of profanity in the workplace:
http://www.brighthub.com/office/human-resources/articles/120765.aspx (http://www.brighthub.com/office/human-resources/articles/120765.aspx)
This kind of thing was not a topic of discussion or concern 20 or 30 years ago, only more recently as workforces have become more diverse. Some of the worst offenders are the baby boomers, who cut their teeth in business as members of the good old boys fraternity.
Quote from: wh on April 12, 2013, 12:36:44 PMI am talking about cussing becoming less acceptable in the workplace, not society at large. Here is an interesting article about the risks of profanity in the workplace:
Never been to where I worked then, one of my bosses only used swear words... I digress
I don't believe that swearing as a basketball coach is all that terrible of a thing. I played sports throughout high school and when I did something wrong typically I would say "Oh F***!" and same with my coaches they would swear all the time. It was just normal. They would never swear at us but it was a way of expression or to stress a point. Yes, it can come across as unprofessional at times but sometimes in order to make a point they'll let a few F bombs or something similar will be dropped. Obviously there is a big difference between corporate world where swearing would be unacceptable and the coaching world where it is pretty commonplace. As long as Wardle wasn't swearing verbally abusing his players, I don't see the problem with him being passionate and dropping the F bomb here and there.
If cursing helped at all, then Homer Drew either would have done it or settled for being a lesser coach (obviously the latter).
It's simply lazy. And uncouth.
But far from the worst social problem facing this culture today. I'll take Wardle over Kermit Gosnell every day.
I don't think we should convict Wardle before all the evidence is in. If we do, on cursing alone, then, as mentioned previously, we have to convict Coach K also. Maybe some of his players were coddled and are offended by his cursing. Therefore they must find a new place to be a student athlete.
I noticed another story in the GB paper that said that 40% of all Div. I men's basketball players have transferred by the end of the sophomore year. Is that a problem with the coaches or the players?
Apparently the 7' 1" Bross was a Green Bay walk-on, and is transferring to Concordia Mequon. So, presumably comfortable with Lutherans and the LCMS.
You'd think we'd have a shot at getting him to walk-on at Valpo!
Quote from: agibson on April 12, 2013, 02:45:39 PMApparently the 7' 1" Bross was a Green Bay walk-on, and is transferring to Concordia Mequon. So, presumably comfortable with Lutherans and the LCMS. You'd think we'd have a shot at getting him to walk-on at Valpo!
I can't think of a player since Seth Cloclasure that played basketball at Valpo and also chose Valpo for it's "LCMS"ness. Back in the day, sure. But Valpo is decidedly Pan-Lutheran or Independent Lutheran now.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 12, 2013, 01:23:26 PM
If cursing helped at all, then Homer Drew either would have done it or settled for being a lesser coach (obviously the latter).
I remember a story of Homer stopping a practice and scolding a team member for his language after a rough play. Still, I doubt Wardle is under investigation simply because of his cursing. I was near the Green Bay bench during a couple of games and clearly heard his use of such language, which I am sure was not a secret among those at Green Bay.
One of the things that hurt Rutgers' coach in terms of language was not that he cursed but that he used terms that were labeled "homophobic," something viewed as a much more grievous offense, especially in the atmosphere of the academic world. I would think Wardle's words would most likely have to be more than cursing and include something of that sort to be seen as serious by his university's administration.
bbtds, some of that percentage of players transferring is due to the sales pitch about or expectations of playing time. If the "high school hero" isn't getting the playing time he should be getting, in his or his AAU coach's eye, he's going to move on to a school that will play him. In most cases, that means a school like Valpo benefits from a Capobianco finding he isn't going to get the court time at IU, so he'll pan around for a place where he'll get the time.
Quote from: valporun on April 12, 2013, 04:49:05 PMIn most cases, that means a school like Valpo benefits from a Capobianco finding he isn't going to get the court time at IU
Very true, but more transparency and honesty in the process (on the part of all concerned, surely) would benefit (for example) Valpo in getting
four years of Capo, not two-plus :)
Interesting, given the topic:
QuoteThe Illinois High School Association issued its sanctions Wednesday against state champion Harrisburg, runner-up Seton Academy and the officials for failure to enforce bench conduct during the game.
Seton Academy coach Brandon Thomas is barred from coaching his team the next two years during the postseason and Harrisburg coach Randy Smithpeters is barred next year, but Smithpeters can still coach in the postseason if he completes a teaching and modeling behavior training program. Both are on probation for the 2013-14 school year. Both schools can appeal the decisions to the IHSA board of directors.
Both coaches' actions on the court were not of the highest standard. Thomas' suspension is the result of what the IHSA said was an "obscenity-laced tirade in the presence of student-athletes in the tunnel following the first half." Thomas also threw his medal to an assistant coach and the Sting left the court without accepting the runner-up trophy.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/mike-nieto/mike-nieto-what-have-we-learned-from-fallout-from-class/article_4fdc3200-f0f7-5468-a521-40a4fc98d053.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/mike-nieto/mike-nieto-what-have-we-learned-from-fallout-from-class/article_4fdc3200-f0f7-5468-a521-40a4fc98d053.html)
WH, you may well be right about swearing becoming less acceptable!
Whoa! :o
Wardle appears to be a maniac. Check out this USAToday release about Brennan Cougill's mom's letter to the UWGB President. Some tidbits: Wardle keeps a list on every player of "distractions" and stated that once the list hits 6 you're off the team. He prevented Cougill from have a team dinner between the Valpo and UWM games. There's more and she says Brennan didn't suffer as much as other team members. It's beginning to sound like the HL and UWGB has it's own Rice to deal with.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 16, 2013, 05:31:54 AMWhoa! :o Wardle appears to be a maniac. Check out this USAToday release about Brennan Cougill's mom's letter to the UWGB President. Some tidbits: Wardle keeps a list on every player of "distractions" and stated that once the list hits 6 you're off the team. He prevented Cougill from have a team dinner between the Valpo and UWM games. There's more and she says Brennan didn't suffer as much as other team members. It's beginning to sound like the HL and UWGB has it's own Rice to deal with.
Good to reference the website. No, I'm not a moderator.http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/04/16/second-mistreatment-complaint-brian-wardle/2086837/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/04/16/second-mistreatment-complaint-brian-wardle/2086837/)Wardle: There's no crying in Div. I basketball!
Thought I did but was in a rush this AM. And thanks for the helping post. I would have caught it and modified but always appreciate a helping hand. Having first hand experience with clinical depression (not me), it is serious and requires persons to understand, not persecute, the individual. Meds help a lot, but sometimes they can't always do the job and the person suffering is helpless to control their behavior. I'm certain he didn't want to cry -- it just happens. I saw Brennan in TV coverage a couple of times and he was a load. Almost blocked Rowdy's buzzer beater.
Would like a player actually speak out against Wardle... If these allegations are true about Wardle, and it's starting to look like they are. He's a disgrace to the GB basketball program, the Horizon League, and the rest of basketball, but most of all he has been a disappointment to the young men who chose to play basketball up north.
It's starting to look like that there will be somebody new at the helm of GB basketball next season.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 16, 2013, 07:16:38 AMHaving first hand experience with clinical depression (not me), it is serious and requires persons to understand, not persecute, the individual. Meds help a lot, but sometimes they can't always do the job and the person suffering is helpless to control their behavior.
I thought I read that the reason Wardle listed that as a distraction was because he had *stopped* taking his medicine? Not sure I would call that persecution.
And remember, folks, this is Basketball Prediction's just some guy's preseason pick to win the HL!
(bout of coughing)
This seems like as good a place as any to post this:
Melissa McCarthy Rutger's SNL Parody Full Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJZX8sZaoE#ws)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 16, 2013, 09:49:21 AMAnd remember, folks, this is Basketball Prediction's just some guy's preseason pick to win the HL!
Several prominent and would-be-prominent bloggers have *way* too much time on their hands.
As far as I'm concerned, this is guy is dreaming of taking Lunardi's job, which is pretty sad when you think about it.
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 16, 2013, 09:47:56 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 16, 2013, 07:16:38 AMHaving first hand experience with clinical depression (not me), it is serious and requires persons to understand, not persecute, the individual. Meds help a lot, but sometimes they can't always do the job and the person suffering is helpless to control their behavior.
I thought I read that the reason Wardle listed that as a distraction was because he had *stopped* taking his medicine? Not sure I would call that persecution.
From Mrs. Cougill: "Among the issues addressed in the letter was Gina Cougill's assertion that her
son's clinical depression was categorized by Wardle as a distraction to the team. She added that Brennan's experience pales in comparison to what other players have been subjected to."
The way I read the "stopped" statement was it was just one more depression thing. Based on his behavior on the court at Valpo (from what some posters have mentioned) Wardle is wrapped tighter than a drum. Tolerance or understanding don't seem to fit into his makeup. We also don't know why Cougill decide to stop the meds -- for all we know, he may have been coerced or he may have reasoned that not taking them might help him deal with Wardle -- we'll never know.
Clinical depression is a serious matter. I'm really surprised that the kid made it this far in a highly competitive and emotional sport like D-I basketball.
Quote
According to Gina Cougill, her son began treatment for depression, including medication, when he was enrolled at Kirkwood Community College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, during the 2010-11 academic year. She said Brennan stopped taking the medication for a period of three to four days leading up to UWGB's game against UW-Milwaukee on Feb. 4, 2012. During the game, Brennan had what she described as a breakdown during the second half of an 81-75 home loss.
According to a source, Cougill had to leave the bench area and began crying.
"Wardle was like, 'that's a distraction to the team to not take his medicine,' " Gina Cougill said.
The bolded part is what I was referring to. If he was *not* taking his medicine and subsequently was breaking down during a game, I think Wardle was right to call that a distraction.
Of course, if he felt coerced by Wardle to not take his medicine, because it impeded his performance (not out of the question), then it falls back on Wardle.
It is because I do believe that clinical depression is a serious matter that I noticed that blurb.
Yeah, it'll all come out sooner or later, I guess. The article said that Brennan would say something after the investigators talk to him. Maybe then it would get clearer.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 16, 2013, 03:50:01 PM
Yeah, it'll all come out sooner or later, I guess. The article said that Brennan would say something after the investigators talk to him. Maybe then it would get clearer.
http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and-nick-show/dick-bennett-joins-show-41613/ (http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and-nick-show/dick-bennett-joins-show-41613/)
One/both of the hosts started by going off on players who "need their mommies to plead their case for them", making the ridiculous comparison between sports and war ("mommies ain't allowed in foxholes").
:crazy:
Fact of the matter is that few 22 year old athletes are ready to take on the nasty world. That is especially true of some or maybe even most who are in the sheltered, regimented world of coach-controlled D-I athletics. They are told what to do, where to go, how to behave in certain respects, but also have ingrained in them that they are special. Big weight on a kid's shoulders. Some get past that, others don't.
There are coaches, and I think Bryce is definitely one, who are catalysts for personal growth for their players -- plus they play great BB. Then there are the Rice's and the Wardels who see any form of independent thought, alternative interests or slightly peculiar (to them) behavior as a challenge or a threat that must be put down for the good of their program. That screams insecurity. On the other hand, you've got Frosty Westering.
Getting back to "mommies in the foxholes." When a kid has been under the thumb of a strong-willed coach for 1, 2 or 4 years, it is terribly difficult for him to get out from under and confront the man and the issues. It is a clear parallel to any classic abusive relationship. Many people can't speak up, so someone has to. I don't see her as a helicopter parent; just someone who's seen enough. Yet, she's gonna take a lot more crap before this is over.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 16, 2013, 08:59:35 PMThere are coaches, and I think Bryce is definitely one, who are catalysts for personal growth for their players -- plus they play great BB. Then there are the Rice's and the Wardels who see any form of independent thought, alternative interests or slightly peculiar (to them) behavior as a challenge or a threat that must be put down for the good of their program. That screams insecurity. On the other hand, you've got Frosty Westering.
If this is like Wardle GB should fire him. What does the screaming and yelling teach these kids? That is you scream and yell enough you get what you want. No, if you play for GB your chances of going pro are slim to none and still that is no excuse for this style of belittling your players and believing nothing is more important than basketball. If this is Wardle's style of coaching GB should get rid of him for the sake of their basketball program.
Did you notice how often they sprained a vocal chord protesting that they were not taking sides (while clearly taking sides)?
There was an article in the USA Today reporting a study that was done on aggressive coaching: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/04/15/clemson-study-aggressive-coaching-mike-rice/2084539/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/04/15/clemson-study-aggressive-coaching-mike-rice/2084539/)
I don't know how reliable it is, but the conclusions sound very plausible to me.
And, it should come as no shock whatsoever that the father of Alec Brown says his son has zero complaints about Wardle. I don't mean that to sound cynical. I've been through a few boss personality conflicts at Boeing in my almost 33 years and for every person who thought the boss was the most despicable human being on the face of the earth, there was another person who thought they were just fine (I've been that "another person" more than once).
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 12, 2013, 07:40:21 AM
Quote from: wh on April 12, 2013, 07:22:07 AMon the other hand, I wouldn't have a hard time picturing him using obscenity-laced tirades during practices
good. point.
if you'd use that word in front of several thousand people and televised, how much would you use it behind closed doors in front of two dozen?
the worst part will come when we as a society reach the point where no one sees that as a big deal any more.
or have we already?
That ship has sailed...oh well...f-it. Haha
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 16, 2013, 10:10:41 PMI don't mean that to sound cynical.
I would. And I'm guessing also Keifer Sykes' parents are OK with Warble (yeah, sic).
Because let's face it, the stars' parents are generally going to have a LOT fewer problems with the coach.
Well...
until they feel he's being used incorrectly...
and then...
Quote"I felt like they weren't going anywhere as a team," Dan said. "It was time to make a change, to explore other options. Chris was averaging 17, 18 points per game the last six, seven games, and he had three shots going into the last three minutes (of that game). It's a big sacrifice for us -- our son having to leave home -- but Chris was willing to make it."
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/high-school/boys-basketball/palombizio-leaving-chesterton-to-attend-traders-point-academy-for-basketball/article_d204dd12-5bf4-5d5b-82fa-1709b07960d9.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/high-school/boys-basketball/palombizio-leaving-chesterton-to-attend-traders-point-academy-for-basketball/article_d204dd12-5bf4-5d5b-82fa-1709b07960d9.html)
I am guessing that maybe this kid isn't Valpo material, although I have no idea whether they even have an eye on him. Like father...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 17, 2013, 06:25:10 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 16, 2013, 10:10:41 PMI don't mean that to sound cynical.
I would. And I'm guessing also Keifer Sykes' parents are OK with Warble (yeah, sic).
Because let's face it, the stars' parents are generally going to have a LOT fewer problems with the coach.
Well...
until they feel he's being used incorrectly...
Fair point. In one of those cases I *was* more highly regarded than the people who were bitching. But in another case, that's far from clear.
Another distasteful aspect when this happens in the workplace is having to listen to the endless, repetitive gossip from the critics.
However, I still am not being cynical about this. Both sides are understandable. The truth has yet to come out.
Over the past week not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not even 5, BUT 6 players have chosen to transfer out of Green Bay over the past week and 11 players in total have transferred out of Green Bay over the past few seasons according to verbal commits (http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/green-bay)
Compared to other HL schools (minus Loyola):
Cleveland State - 6
Detroit - 2
UIC - 8
Milwaukee - 4
Valpo - 4
Wright State - 9
Youngstown State - 3
I know that some players transfer because they aren't getting the playing time they want or are unhappy with the team or might not get along with some of the players, or it's just not the right fit. But to have 6 players within the last week who have decided to leave the program is astonishing. Some schools haven't even had 6 players leave over the past 4 seasons. I think this proves that there is something wrong with the style Wardle uses, and if Green Bay knew what was best for their basketball program he would be terminated immediately. It's no coincidence that Green Bay leads the league in guys choosing to transfer out and to have 6 all at once leave is unacceptable and there is obviously something Wardle has done to make these kids want to leave. Like I said before Green Bay should terminate his contract immediately.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 17, 2013, 12:34:30 PMhttp://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/green-bay
I've done what you did--when editing your link you made the hyperlink the text and the text the hyperlink. But obviously it don't work :)
I'll just take you at your word for it then: whoa. That...wow.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 17, 2013, 12:34:30 PM
Over the past week not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not even 5, BUT 6 players have chosen to transfer out of Green Bay over the past week and 11 players in total have transferred out of Green Bay over the past few seasons according to verbal commits (http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/green-bay)
Compared to other HL schools (minus Loyola):
Cleveland State - 6
Detroit - 2
UIC - 8
Milwaukee - 4
Valpo - 4
Wright State - 9
Youngstown State - 3
I know that some players transfer because they aren't getting the playing time they want or are unhappy with the team or might not get along with some of the players, or it's just not the right fit. But to have 6 players within the last week who have decided to leave the program is astonishing. Some schools haven't even had 6 players leave over the past 4 seasons. I think this proves that there is something wrong with the style Wardle uses, and if Green Bay knew what was best for their basketball program he would be terminated immediately. It's no coincidence that Green Bay leads the league in guys choosing to transfer out and to have 6 all at once leave is unacceptable and there is obviously something Wardle has done to make these kids want to leave. Like I said before Green Bay should terminate his contract immediately.
Miscounted there are actually 13 players over the past 4 seasons to have transferred out of Green Bay!
I'm still trying to figure out that site, but I feel that some things are confusing. Regardless, only three players that actually played last season are leaving: Cerroni (midseason), Muhmamad, and Arenz, who didn't even log 100 minutes on the year (less than half of Vashil's minutes). So.
Fascinating site, though, and thanks for the link.
Comment from a GB poster:
No doubt it's been on the job training. With out prior head coaching experience he's had a lot to learn. He's made some good decisions and some mistakes. He and his asst.'s strengh is recruiting.
That being said he was the best candidate when GB was looking for a head coach. If all works out well I hope he has many years at GB. The upside is tremendous and GB is not most head coaches 1st choice. Pay is low and not the biggest BB market. So BW with his local ties was a great find and we new we would have growing problems.
Rightly or not, I suspect that recruiting is going to take a hit, at least in the short term. Uncertainty about who the "real" Wardle is will prompt a lot of players and their families to take a pass on GB.
Quote from: wh on April 19, 2013, 02:33:31 AM
Comment from a GB poster:
No doubt it's been on the job training. With out prior head coaching experience he's had a lot to learn. He's made some good decisions and some mistakes. He and his asst.'s strengh is recruiting.
That being said he was the best candidate when GB was looking for a head coach. If all works out well I hope he has many years at GB. The upside is tremendous and GB is not most head coaches 1st choice. Pay is low and not the biggest BB market. So BW with his local ties was a great find and we new we would have growing problems.
Rightly or not, I suspect that recruiting is going to take a hit, at least in the short term. Uncertainty about who the "real" Wardle is will prompt a lot of players and their families to take a pass on GB.
No matter how good of a recruiter or your ability to draw up plays that work, if you can't handle yourself regarding how you treat your players then you don't deserve to be a head coach. Being a head coach is much more than just recruiting and drawing up plays. When you're aggressive towards your players, they won't respond well. I think that played a big reason in GBs underachieving season. They had some very good basketball players but their season didn't replicate the level of talent they have. This falls on Wardle; he probably is a good recruiter and understands the game very well, but if you can't communicate with your players then you shouldn't be a head coach.
I think GB should get rid of Wardle, I think with these new allegations it will hurt their ability to recruit tremendously. I don't think Wardle is head-coach material. He might serve better as an assistant, when the head coach can keep him in line, since he can't keep himself in line.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 19, 2013, 11:39:10 AMif you can't handle yourself regarding how you treat your players then you don't deserve to be a head coach. Being a head coach is much more than just recruiting and drawing up plays.
So true. This also led to me rewatching the SNL skit above :) hi-LARious.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 19, 2013, 11:39:10 AM
Quote from: wh on April 19, 2013, 02:33:31 AM
Comment from a GB poster:
No doubt it's been on the job training. With out prior head coaching experience he's had a lot to learn. He's made some good decisions and some mistakes. He and his asst.'s strengh is recruiting.
That being said he was the best candidate when GB was looking for a head coach. If all works out well I hope he has many years at GB. The upside is tremendous and GB is not most head coaches 1st choice. Pay is low and not the biggest BB market. So BW with his local ties was a great find and we new we would have growing problems.
Rightly or not, I suspect that recruiting is going to take a hit, at least in the short term. Uncertainty about who the "real" Wardle is will prompt a lot of players and their families to take a pass on GB.
No matter how good of a recruiter or your ability to draw up plays that work, if you can't handle yourself regarding how you treat your players then you don't deserve to be a head coach. Being a head coach is much more than just recruiting and drawing up plays. When you're aggressive towards your players, they won't respond well. I think that played a big reason in GBs underachieving season. They had some very good basketball players but their season didn't replicate the level of talent they have. This falls on Wardle; he probably is a good recruiter and understands the game very well, but if you can't communicate with your players then you shouldn't be a head coach.I think GB should get rid of Wardle, I think with these new allegations it will hurt their ability to recruit tremendously. I don't think Wardle is head-coach material. He might serve better as an assistant, when the head coach can keep him in line, since he can't keep himself in line.
I agree. This whole issue about it's ok to yell at players, get in their faces, etc. is completely convoluted in my opinion. In the year 2013 managers in the workplace that yell and scream at their adult employees are considered bad managers, and rightfully so. And yet, some of the same people that would never defend this in the workplace defend coaches who verbally abuse 18-22 college students on a daily basis. Good coaches, like good supervisors, use a managerial style that promotes player commitment toward accomplishing personal and team goals through positive reinforcement. Bryce is a great example of a coach that develops commitment, as opposed to forcing compliance through bullying, intimidation, and manipulation.
Forcing compliance is an agressive tactic that yields short term, moment-by-moment results and which has to repeated constantly to be effective; developing commitment is based on building positive win/win relationships over time, which yields unforced support and willing commitment.
wh, do you happen to teach a management course? I think your comments are right on, but there are still a lot of managers out there that manage by intimidation.
Quote from: FWalum on April 19, 2013, 03:39:51 PM
wh, do you happen to teach a management course? I think your comments are right on, but there are still a lot of managers out there that manage by intimidation.
Part of my career has been devoted to management development. Like most other human traits, leadership style is in large part a "learned" behavior. It begins at a very early age based on the examples set by parents and others in authority. Bad leadership behaviors can be overcome through exposure to positive mentors, formal training, etc. That's what management development is all about - reinforcing good behaviors and changing bad ones.
I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of much effort in the world of athletics to develop leadership skills among coaches. They just are who they are - for better or for worse. IMO there's way too much "the end justifies the means" mentality in coaching. If a coach wins, abusive behavior is accepted or at least overlooked. Bob Knight is the poster child for this. As long as he was winning and making a lot of money for the university, the abusiveness was tolerated. Once the winning stopped, people suddenly became offended by his boorish behavior.
The proper mentoring thing is so important. As you allude to, WH, if a "successful" (i.e., they win games) coaching tree is characterized by temper and intimidation, it'll probably look for those traits in its coaching applicants and then reinforce those traits going forward. That's a hard cycle to break. Similarly, family background where the same traits are present may lead an individual, who may have great tactical and recruiting skills, to adopt the same tactics as a coach unless properly mentored. Mentoring takes time to exert it's influence.
About Wardle from Wikipedia: He was an assistant at Marquette from 2003–2005 and UW-Green Bay from 2005–2010. Upon his hiring, Wardle became the youngest head coach in NCAA Division I basketball.. Three years ago he was thrown into a tough, win now (I assume, or at least, as a youngster, in his own mind) situation. Just thinking (and, admittedly, speculating) that there was not much time to mature there.
Bryce, on the other hand, grew up being coached by mature, thoughtful coaches in HS and college, plus his family traits were not highlighted by temper or intimidation. He also benefited from an extended playing career that exposed him to several coaching styles.
In reading about Wardle, the player, his career seemed to be highlighted by intensity. That works fine for a player, but it needs to be refined and properly channeled as a coach. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. No question the negative publicity following on the heals of the Rutgers fiasco did UWGB no good.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 20, 2013, 08:15:18 AMNo question the negative publicity following on the heals of the Rutgers fiasco did UWGB no good.
I truly believe that because of the Rutgers fiasco that the UWGB parent decided it was the correct time to expose the situation at Green Bay.
I agree.
Specifics of the complaints made public, and they aren't pretty:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle)
Such juvenile behavior by a college coach. Green Bay needs to go a different direction.
If this is true... this is way worse than I initially thought. I think GB will have a new head coach next season and Wardle will never be a basketball coach again.
If these are true... what a pitiful example of human kind.
Crazy, I always told our players not to have sex.... I don't think it made much difference. :o
That does sound pretty terrible. I am confused in regards to an Advisor telling him that his coach was blocking him from taking a class. I had both athletic and academic scholarship money, and nothing coach could have said would have prevented me from taking any classes that met our practice/game schedules. I think that Advisor needs to be looked at as well, as this guy was also a walk-on, without the obligation that comes from an athletic scholarship...
It takes the "student" right out of "student athlete," doesn't it? Can you imagine Bryce telling one of our players that? Or Loyola telling Ben Averkamp that he shouldn't take pre-med courses because they're too hard and might interfere with basketball? And to think he said that to a walk-on is just crazy. Where did this guy come from again? Who were his mentors?
Tom Crean at Marquette
Quote from: wh on April 30, 2013, 02:24:49 AMWhere did this guy come from again? Who were his mentors?
Why do I get the feeling that you knew the answer to that question before you asked it ???
(http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/91220_vhlDoXMEl6HZ9EA.jpg)
...except maybe he did, since he kept this kid as a walk-on while promising him scholarships. I had no idea that you could withhold transfer approval of a non-scholarship player! Ridiculous. The NCAA just keeps finding more sharks to jump.
Come to Valpo if you want a good coach and a Lutheran institution.
Note also that it is the #1 story on the GBPG website, especially remarkable just after the draft and the Packers are relegated to nos. 3-5...
Quote from: valpopal on April 29, 2013, 10:43:37 PM
Specifics of the complaints made public, and they aren't pretty:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle)
Even if only 50% is true, it is still damaging to the coach and school.
i find it intriguing that some of these incidents happened during practices, yet alec brown is refuting them. at the very least, it should give a moment of pause before we rush to judgment. it could be that brown is afraid of retribution, but if it's true that wouldn't matter because wardle wouldn't be around for the upcoming season anyway.
Myron Metcalf now has an article that is on the front headline page (not just ncaam) on ESPn as of 8:28 EST.
My take is the following:
I am always a "three sides to every story" (or four, if you believe Kurosawa 8)) and let's let all of the facts get out.
That said the most interesting tidbit from the GBPG article is where Wardle says " I cannot comment on the specific allegations under federal privacy laws. I can say the version of events you are reporting is inaccurate. I have fully cooperated with the independent investigator, as have our players and coaches. I fully expect the eyewitnesses to these allegations you are reporting will contradict the version you are reporting."
So you can't comment, but then immediately make a comment that contradicts the story? Either deny or don't comment. :crazy:
Both Sykes and Brown are claiming that Wardle never saw or knew about what was going on with Bross and Cougill.
Cougill claims they didn't see the mistreatment.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/01/ex-green-bay-forward-brennan-cougill-supports-teammates-allegations/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/01/ex-green-bay-forward-brennan-cougill-supports-teammates-allegations/)
Honestly, I'm taking the sides of Cougill and Bross. a) Why would both Bross and Cougill make up such stories and tell their mothers about it? b) Both Brown and Sykes are by far the two best players on the GB squad and Wardle doesn't want to do anything to lose them, thus playing favorites.
I'm sure what we've heard from Bross and Cougill aren't the full story, nor do I think we'll ever know what fully happened. But if it's true about Bross, which I am leaning towards it being closer to the truth than Sykes and Brown backing up Wardle. Then I believe GB will be in the market for a new head coach and Wardle will be scanning the classifieds of the local newspaper.
I highly doubt that Bross would make up a story in the national media about crapping his pants, and the resulting treatment. What kind of deranged person would make that up, knowing full well that embarrassment would follow?
If what I read about Ryan is true, I'd like to express my deep admiration for his religious convictions.
In the face of chastisement and ridicule, it takes a strong man to stand up for what he believes in.
If we don't have the courage of our convictions, what on earth do we have?
Quote from: dylanrocks on May 01, 2013, 06:29:32 PM
If what I read about Ryan is true, I'd like to express my deep admiration for his religious convictions.
In the face of chastisement and ridicule, it takes a strong man to stand up for what he believes in.
If we don't have the courage of our convictions, what on earth do we have?
Nicely said dylanrocks. :clap:
Quote from: FWalum on May 01, 2013, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: dylanrocks on May 01, 2013, 06:29:32 PM
If what I read about Ryan is true, I'd like to express my deep admiration for his religious convictions.
In the face of chastisement and ridicule, it takes a strong man to stand up for what he believes in.
If we don't have the courage of our convictions, what on earth do we have?
Nicely said dylanrocks. :clap:
Excellent point. He may be a basketball walk-on, but he's a star in the game of life.
Quote from: wh on May 01, 2013, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: FWalum on May 01, 2013, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: dylanrocks on May 01, 2013, 06:29:32 PM
If what I read about Ryan is true, I'd like to express my deep admiration for his religious convictions.
In the face of chastisement and ridicule, it takes a strong man to stand up for what he believes in.
If we don't have the courage of our convictions, what on earth do we have?
Nicely said dylanrocks. :clap:
Excellent point. He may be a basketball walk-on, but he's a star in the game of life.
Excellent statements! :clap:
Quote from: covufan on May 02, 2013, 11:03:47 AMQuote from: wh on May 01, 2013, 08:35:20 PMQuote from: FWalum on May 01, 2013, 08:16:24 PMQuote from: dylanrocks on May 01, 2013, 06:29:32 PMIf what I read about Ryan is true, I'd like to express my deep admiration for his religious convictions. In the face of chastisement and ridicule, it takes a strong man to stand up for what he believes in. If we don't have the courage of our convictions, what on earth do we have?
Nicely said dylanrocks. :clap:
Excellent point. He may be a basketball walk-on, but he's a star in the game of life.
Excellent statements! :clap:
Excellent statement by dylanrocks! Excellent statement by FWAlum! Excellent statement by wh!Extremely excellent statement by covufan for recognizing all three previous excellent statements! This board is so great at recognizing excellent play and evaluating excellent comments!
And that Ryan Bross guy ain't too bad either for standing up in the face of immense pressure and showing courage against a tyrant.(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtdijdKJdpYU7j4iVSkNuRczkFu1A5RGzN-t1IdvQrORUrd-79tA)
Wardle is still gonna be the face of GB basketball for the future. I can say that I am surprised that he is to keep his job.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-05-24/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-investigation-keeping-his-job-mike-rice (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-05-24/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-investigation-keeping-his-job-mike-rice)
ridiculous. sweeping them will feel even better this year.
I too am quite surprised that Wardle was permitted to stay given the current climate of sensitivity.
I certainly wouldn't want a son of mine to play for a man who tells him to have premarital intercourse.
Well, at least there's a disciplinary letter being placed in his file. ::)
I pray for the student athletes such as Ryan Bross, Brennan Cougill, etc. because of the damage Wardle has done to them.
With only 9 members on the UWGB men's basketball team, it will be interesting, just like the Valpo women's team, whether their coach can fill out the roster for this coming season.
Double Secret Probation.mpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ#)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 24, 2013, 08:13:29 PM
Double Secret Probation.mpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ#)
Exactly.
Here's something that I certainly expect was discussed before the "action" was taken: if there prove to be any other skeletons in Wardle's closet or if there's one minor misstep, all of them will be out the door -- Wardle, AD Ken Bothof and Chancellor Thomas Harden.
Hard for me to believe they think this can still work. I would think that recruiting will take a big hit as long as Wardle is there, unless he really shows something next year along the lines of what Billy Donlon did at Wright State this year. This has stagnation written all over it.
Quote from: FWalum on May 25, 2013, 01:40:12 PMThis has stagnation written all over it.
Or something like...
Oops I Crapped My Pants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j8jVFTOV5Y#ws)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 25, 2013, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: FWalum on May 25, 2013, 01:40:12 PMThis has stagnation written all over it.
Or something like...
Oops I Crapped My Pants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j8jVFTOV5Y#ws)
I'm sure Wardle has a dozen packages of those adult diapers ready for all his practices in October.
It takes a lot more leadership ability than Wardle apparently has to motivate players to reach their full potential without yelling, screaming and demeaning. Moreover, players are no different than anyone else - at some point they just stop listening. In turn, the coach turns up the volume even more to elicit a reaction. At some point that stops working so he starts with personal attacks. When those no longer work he tries passive aggressiveness like refusing to speak to the player (sometimes for days), sitting the player at the end of the bench, refusing to make eye contact, giving instructions through assistants, and other childish non-verbal tactics. Hopefully, it doesn't become physical, but that can happen as well. Whenever he can't "get through" to the player, it's never about his inability to properly motivate. It's always the player's fault, who is deemed lazy or lacking in mental toughness or is just plain uncoachable. These 20th century dinosaurs need to be culled from the coaching ranks at every level.
As to Wardle, I hope he appreciates that he has been given a second chance when he could just as easily have been cut loose. He needs to use this time to do some serious introspection and come out the other side a changed man. I hope he does - for his sake, for his family's sake, for the University's sake, but most of all for his players' sakes.
Rutgers President hires former player abuser to establish new non-abusive culture at Rutgers:
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/christie-wants-to-talk-with-rutgers-about-ad-julie-hermann/article_51832ea3-85ce-5220-ad87-3ccb57cb542a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/christie-wants-to-talk-with-rutgers-about-ad-julie-hermann/article_51832ea3-85ce-5220-ad87-3ccb57cb542a.html)
Dumb, dumb, dumb. Only in academia...
From Chancellor Thomas Harden's statement:
"As to the report of allegedly encouraging a player to have sex, there is disagreement regarding the words used and whether it was said one, two or three times. Coach Wardle has said his close relationship with the team led him to make this comment once in a joking manner. However, as I have told Coach Wardle, making this sort of statement, whether joking or not, is not acceptable."
Well, the derision was aimed at its intended target perhaps only once -- and in a joking fashion -- so everything is cool.
I'll bet Wardle's wrists even sting a little bit today. After all, a letter was placed in his personnel file.
Just another example of "big time" college athletics running the show...Wardle holding on to his head coaching job is a disgrace to UWGB, the Horizon League and college athletics in general...it's a little Rutgers situation. Come on Phoenix, get your act together!
Mixed messages from Green Bay today. First, Alec Brown and Keifer Sykes release a statement declaring "... The character and communication in our locker room is really good right now... "; Second, a fifth player (Cole Stefan) announces he is leaving the team:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130530/GPG020110/130530028/Another-UWGB-player-leaves-team?odyssey=tab (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130530/GPG020110/130530028/Another-UWGB-player-leaves-team?odyssey=tab)|topnews|text|
Green Bay possibly has lost another player. Three-Star 2014 recruit and verbal commit Jerrelle Deberry announced today that he was de-committing from the Phoenix and re-opening his search.