The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

This article from the Detroit Free Press at 2:18 pm today:

http://www.freep.com/article/20130506/SPORTS08/305060097/oakland-horizon-league (http://www.freep.com/article/20130506/SPORTS08/305060097/oakland-horizon-league)

Oakland University's athletic department is inviting media members to Tuesday afternoon's meeting of the Board of Trustees, presumably to announce that the school is leaving the Summit League and joining the Horizon League.

Officials from the school and league have declined to comment on the subject of the meeting, which will be followed by a news conference.

The Green Bay Press Gazette reported last month that OU will move to the Horizon, which already is home to Detroit Mercy.

Tuesday's board meeting is scheduled for 4 p.m.

Well, it would be about time...

If this board had a "Like" button, I'd click on it.
Greg Kampe and his teams will now return to the ARC every year for entertaining battles.

Pretty much the worst kept "secret" in the history of conference realignment

I love the end or the article about the Oakland/UDM "rivalry" that "was abruptly ended when the Golden Grizzlies began having success." Seems like a typical UDM move.

I am looking forward to possibly starting up a rivalry with Oakland. Honestly, I'm ashamed to call UDM our rivals, at least Butler showed a little bit of class. I will be looking forward to going to the game against Oakland next season, more so than UDM. Especially since losing Junior, UDM has as good of a chance of winning the HL as UWM.

If this is ture, it was a good trade a struggling Loyola team for an Oakland team that seems to be getting better. Now if we can get a 10th team, that is similar if not better than Oakland, than losing Butler wouldn't hurt too much and all will be well in the HL again... At least until Valpo fills the shoes and becomes the next HL powerhouse and leaves for bigger and better things. ;)

Quote from: classof2014 on May 06, 2013, 05:41:59 PMI am looking forward to possibly starting up a rivalry with Oakland

Restart, actually.

I am pleased Oakland will finally be officially entering the Horizon League. I have enjoyed the rivalry over the years, and I like the history of friendliness between Coach Kampe and the VU basketball program. However, if this is all there is, then it is late and underwhelming after waiting more than a year for an announcement after Butler left. Oakland is a good replacement for Loyola, but there remains a gap that should be filled by a tenth team sometime soon.

Also, as I wrote last Wednesday, we all knew this was coming:

Quote from: valpopal on May 01, 2013, 11:09:53 AM
Oakland's Board of Trustees has a "special formal meeting" scheduled for Tuesday.

Quote from: classof2014 on May 06, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
I am looking forward to possibly starting up a rivalry with Oakland. Honestly, I'm ashamed to call UDM our rivals, ...

I don't think Oakland can be Our Rival; they can be A Rival, but since they're going to be Rivals with UDM (until the latter leaves for the NBE or the A-10 *coughing fit), we can't be.

It's kind of like the Lions trying to be rivals with the Packers or Bears.  I mean, sure, there's a degree of rivaldom there, but no one wants to be the third wheel in a rivalry.

Let's give a round of applause for the Horizon League keeping calm and not adding IUPUI or IPFW immediately after Butler left. Oakland is an ideal replacement and if it took Loyola leaving to get the votes, the HL played it as well as it possibly could.

It's too bad Murray State couldn't be added, but maybe one day.

Quote from: a3uge on May 06, 2013, 09:05:06 PMOakland is an ideal replacement and if it took Loyola leaving to get the votes

Excellent point.  I think Northern Kentucky is much more realistic than Murray, though.

There, we disagreed on something.

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 06, 2013, 09:24:09 PM

Quote from: a3uge on May 06, 2013, 09:05:06 PMOakland is an ideal replacement and if it took Loyola leaving to get the votes

Excellent point.  I think Northern Kentucky is much more realistic than Murray, though.

There, we disagreed on something.

Eh, the HL should let the AD scandal blow over first.

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves... Oakland hasn't confirmed anything. Chances are this press-conference held tomorrow afternoon will be announce their entrance into the Horizon League. But as of right now Oakland is still a member of the Summit and not the Horizon.

Quote from: classof2014 on May 06, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
Since losing Junior, UDM has as good of a chance of winning the HL as UWM.

I have absolutely no idea how our team will perform next year, only that it will look a lot different than this past season. Indeed, there will be three or four new players in the starting five.

As for the topic at hand, I can fully appreciate why Detroit feels the way it does. That having been said, the Titans and their fans at the moment have no choice but to accept their plight.

It's official:

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/oakland-university-to-join-horizon-league-in-july.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/oakland-university-to-join-horizon-league-in-july.html)

Interesting to me that unlike Butler, Loyola remains on the header for the League inspite of their decision to leave.

Statement by the Summit:

http://www.thesummitleague.org/sports/articles/2012-13/releases/050713-summitstatement (http://www.thesummitleague.org/sports/articles/2012-13/releases/050713-summitstatement)

Quote from: vu72 on May 07, 2013, 03:40:14 PM
Interesting to me that unlike Butler, Loyola remains on the header for the League inspite of their decision to leave.

The Spring sports aren't done yet, 72.

I am very pleased to see this. Glad the HL was proactive after Loyola's leaving in replacing them with a much better program that has a bright future. I would love to see a 10th added this summer but if it's just Oakland this year I will be pretty damn happy! Gives me some hope in LeCrone. I will be looking forward to seeing Oakland next year in the ARC!

Like I said before, the HL traded away the old veteran, whom is running on fumes for the up and coming guy who has a bright future.

Bravo to the HL and LeCrone on adding Oakland. :)

Quote from: classof2014 on May 07, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
I am very pleased to see this. Glad the HL was proactive after Loyola's leaving in replacing them with a much better program that has a bright future. I would love to see a 10th added this summer but if it's just Oakland this year I will be pretty damn happy! Gives me some hope in LeCrone. I will be looking forward to seeing Oakland next year in the ARC!

Like I said before, the HL traded away the old veteran, whom is running on fumes for the up and coming guy who has a bright future.

Bravo to the HL and LeCrone on adding Oakland. :)

Dear Lord...this move is about as reactive as it gets.  This was the safe, plain vanilla ground ball up the middle expansion move.  This isn't just about replacing LUC.  It's about replacing LUC and Butler. 

This board absolutely amazes me sometimes.

Quote from: classof2014 on May 07, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
I am very pleased to see this. Glad the HL was proactive after Loyola's leaving in replacing them with a much better program that has a bright future. I would love to see a 10th added this summer but if it's just Oakland this year I will be pretty damn happy! Gives me some hope in LeCrone. I will be looking forward to seeing Oakland next year in the ARC!

Like I said before, the HL traded away the old veteran, whom is running on fumes for the up and coming guy who has a bright future.

Bravo to the HL and LeCrone on adding Oakland. :)

+1  As 2014 has said all along, Oakland is a huge upgrade and you should see an immediate improvement in the HL's RPI ranking, # of NCAA bids and NCAA tournament seeding.  Oakland has always played a great non-conference schedule and next year's is no exception.

Quote from: EddieCabot on May 07, 2013, 05:28:21 PM

Quote from: classof2014 on May 07, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
I am very pleased to see this. Glad the HL was proactive after Loyola's leaving in replacing them with a much better program that has a bright future. I would love to see a 10th added this summer but if it's just Oakland this year I will be pretty damn happy! Gives me some hope in LeCrone. I will be looking forward to seeing Oakland next year in the ARC!

Like I said before, the HL traded away the old veteran, whom is running on fumes for the up and coming guy who has a bright future.

Bravo to the HL and LeCrone on adding Oakland. :)

+1  As 2014 has said all along, Oakland is a huge upgrade and you should see an immediate improvement in the HL's RPI ranking, # of NCAA bids and NCAA tournament seeding.  Oakland has always played a great non-conference schedule and next year's is no exception.

I still don't get this poster.  He is obviously being a smart a$$ here.  Sometimes he appears to be sincere, and other times he just loves to belittle Valpo and the HL.

And just for the record, I want to welcome our old conference mates into the HL.  But to say that this move was proactive is, well, unjustified.

See if you can notice the trend:

--The MCC needs schools or it will lose its auto bid.  Let's raid the Mid Con (UIC, UWGB, WSU, UWM, CSU).
--The MCC wants to add additional schools.  Let's raid the Mid Con (YSU).
--The MCC, er HL wants to add additional schools.  Let's raid the Summit, er Mid Con (Valpo).
--The MCC, er HL wants to add additional schools.  Let's raid the Summit, er Mid Con (Oakland).

This is playbook, not proactive.

Quote from: crusaderjoe on May 07, 2013, 05:25:37 PMDear Lord...this move is about as reactive as it gets.  This was the safe, plain vanilla ground ball up the middle expansion move.  This isn't just about replacing LUC.  It's about replacing LUC and Butler. 

This board absolutely amazes me sometimes.

I think you have to reconsider that statement in light of the fact that Loyola was likely still aligned with UDM in vetoing Oakland!  Once they left, that was the only way Oakland could have been added, so yes, they were proactive as soon as they had the votes.

Like what happened in the Senate after Scott Brown was elected to fill out Ted Kennedy's seat.  You work with what you have, when you can.

And promoting people from the Summit--they keep doing it because it works.  Well, except for Youngstown :)

Quote from: valpotx on May 07, 2013, 05:39:25 PMI still don't get this poster.  He is obviously being a smart a$$ here.  Sometimes he appears to be sincere, and other times he just loves to belittle Valpo and the HL.

He's pretty much perpetually a smartass, I've decided.

Congrats on crossing the 2K mark, Tx!  I'm going to start calling you "The Juice". :)

Like I said before bravo to the HL for getting Oakland. We all know the HL has wanted them and they wanted to come into the HL but if the votes from the other programs aren't there then it's not the HLs fault. Right after LUC left, Oakland joined. Bravo to the HL.

I think it's gonna take time to replace Butler. I don't think they're gonna get a program as good as Butler but if they're able to get another program with a good resume, then it'll be a good replacement. Nobody would've been happy if the HL was proactive and got IUPUI or IPFW for Butler or even a mediocre school. I would like to the HL go after Murray State, Belmont, or RMU as a possible replacement for Butler.

I am now much more optimistic about the future of the HL after getting Oakland today. Reacting is settling, proactive is getting what you want. The HL wanted Oakland and they got them. Reactive would've been jumping the gun and settling for IPFW, IUPUI, etc...

It might take another year or two until they get back up to 10 but if they get a high quality program for Butler then it will be worth the wait.

Let us not forget this isn't all on the HL, if Murray State doesn't want to leave the OVC then it's damn hard to convince them to leave the OVC. Perhaps wait a season or two and maybe they'll change their minds or there will be another school on the market.

Like co14 just said, if Murray State (or Belmont) doesn't want to leave, then why do we blame the Horizon for not adding them? It's absolutely ridiculous that we have posters on here who continually rip the league for not replacing Butler with a magical perfect school without EVER naming/arguing which schools could reasonably added. Seriously just name this school that can be talked politely into moving conferences to the HL.

It's nonsensical at this point to be disappointed at the league for this move. I don't care if it was proactive, reactive, nuclearactive... it's done now and the HL made the right move. Don't take that for granted. Look at the MVC. They added a horrible program without any recent success. They are the best mid major conference in the midwest and replaced their top school with a school that's going to make their RPI worse than if they didn't add anyone. They rushed the move when they didn't have to.

And we want to blast the HL? How about being happy we replaced a school with multiple 250+ RPI seasons and no postseason appearances in over a decade with a school that in the past 5 years has had a better RPI than we've ever had (twice), two tournament appearances, and four 20+ win seasons. And we didn't have to go to the Dakotas to get them.

So instead of directing your anger at an entity that has little to do with the caliber of teams we play in conference, you guys should direct it at some things that DO affect the conference's ability to produce more NCAA bids, better RPIs, etc: How about directing it at UWGB who managed to sink their program into the ground with their idiot coach? Or UWM who hired the most incompetent AD in D1 history and turned a great basketball program into one that plays in a gym twice as bad as the ARC? What about UIC who can't seem to turn their "Chicago Potential" into any actual success? Or YSU ('nuff said)?

ESPN version:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9252065/oakland-golden-grizzlies-leaving-summit-league-join-horizon-league (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9252065/oakland-golden-grizzlies-leaving-summit-league-join-horizon-league)

Quote from: valpotx on May 07, 2013, 05:39:25 PM

Quote from: EddieCabot on May 07, 2013, 05:28:21 PM
+1  As 2014 has said all along, Oakland is a huge upgrade and you should see an immediate improvement in the HL's RPI ranking, # of NCAA bids and NCAA tournament seeding.  Oakland has always played a great non-conference schedule and next year's is no exception.

I still don't get this poster.  He is obviously being a smart a$$ here.  Sometimes he appears to be sincere, and other times he just loves to belittle Valpo and the HL.

Just agreeing with 2014 that the Oakland for Loyola swap is a net positive for the Horizon.  Read the a3uge post above for details of Oakland's recent basketball success.  They'll definitely help the Horizon next year, especially since they are returning 4 starters (including Travis Bader at 22+ ppg) from a team that beat the Horizon's regular and post-season champs.

They also schedule very well in the non-conference.  Next year's schedule has UNC, Gonzaga, UCLA and Cal ... those games will be huge bumps to their (and the league's) SOS and RPI.  Given that the Horizon was 29th in OOC SOS last year, they might be able to learn a thing or two from Oakland on the scheduling front.  I would hope teams would improve schedules on their own, but if not, I support the scheduling guidelines suggested by BigDWSU in another thread.

I predict that Oakland is going to have a fairly strong impact on the league - they will not be patsies in many sports.

Quote from: EddieCabot on May 07, 2013, 08:46:59 PM

Quote from: valpotx on May 07, 2013, 05:39:25 PM

Quote from: EddieCabot on May 07, 2013, 05:28:21 PM
+1  As 2014 has said all along, Oakland is a huge upgrade and you should see an immediate improvement in the HL's RPI ranking, # of NCAA bids and NCAA tournament seeding.  Oakland has always played a great non-conference schedule and next year's is no exception.

I still don't get this poster.  He is obviously being a smart a$$ here.  Sometimes he appears to be sincere, and other times he just loves to belittle Valpo and the HL.

Just agreeing with 2014 that the Oakland for Loyola swap is a net positive for the Horizon.  Read the a3uge post above for details of Oakland's recent basketball success.  They'll definitely help the Horizon next year, especially since they are returning 4 starters (including Travis Bader at 22+ ppg) from a team that beat the Horizon's regular and post-season champs.

They also schedule very well in the non-conference.  Next year's schedule has UNC, Gonzaga, UCLA and Cal ... those games will be huge bumps to their (and the league's) SOS and RPI.  Given that the Horizon was 29th in OOC SOS last year, they might be able to learn a thing or two from Oakland on the scheduling front.  I would hope teams would improve schedules on their own, but if not, I support the scheduling guidelines suggested by BigDWSU in another thread.

I honestly thought you were being sarcastic too.  Don't know why... Internet sarcasm is hard at times.

a3, let's call it your "Bayesian sense" based on his track record, its context, your instinct, etc :)

It's much more amusing to check out the comments on the DetNews article (than the Freep too)
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130507/SPORTS0203/305070434/Oakland-accepts-invitation-join-Horizon-League?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CSports (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130507/SPORTS0203/305070434/Oakland-accepts-invitation-join-Horizon-League?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CSports)

UDM-OAKLAND RIVALRY:
So It Begins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_gst-Ryh3g#)

Quote from: a3uge on May 07, 2013, 09:37:48 PMI honestly thought you were being sarcastic too.  Don't know why... Internet sarcasm is hard at times.

Understood ... I'll admit I've made one or two sarcastic posts in the past.  In the future, I'll provide some visual aids like this ...

(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p193/eddiecabot/sarcasm_zps5fffc21c.jpg) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/eddiecabot/media/sarcasm_zps5fffc21c.jpg.html)

I doubt anyone on this board is angry or disappointed at the HL for adding Oakland.  However, this does not discount the fact that the HL's move today might just be the most "no brainer" conference move in this whole expansion shuffle aside from when Idaho announced that they were moving from the WAC to the Big Sky for all sports other than football.  "No brainer" conference moves are not proactive.  Being proactive is not just about exercising an LUC for OU swap.  The bigger picture dictates otherwise. Some people on this board see that.

It still remains to be seen whether the Valley erred in taking Loyola.

Quote from: valpospartan on May 07, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
I predict that Oakland is going to have a fairly strong impact on the league - they will not be patsies in many sports.

It looks like only their softball team is down this year (possible patsy), with two conference wins.  I know that it isn't exciting to most, but their women's soccer team could end Milwaukee's HL dominance in the sport, and their S&D has always been top notch.

Welcome to Oakland.  This brings the HL back up to 9, and has been in the works since the Butler move to the A-10 - announced more than a year ago.  The HL needs to move a little faster than a year to replace Loyola - hopefully in the next few weeks.

Oakland fans experience their first advantage of being in the Horizon League: Watching the Oakland Press Conference live in HD on the HL Network.

The past 3 games between Oakland and Valpo have been decided by a total of 5 points. Should be fun to see them play each other twice a year!

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 07, 2013, 09:40:26 PMIt's much more amusing to check out the comments on the DetNews article (than the Freep too)
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130507/SPORTS0203/305070434/Oakland-accepts-invitation-join-Horizon-League?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CSports (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130507/SPORTS0203/305070434/Oakland-accepts-invitation-join-Horizon-League?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CSports)

I don't know about the comments, but interesting to see the numbers there.

"The initial move will cost Oakland an exit fee (Summit) of $250,000 and an admittance fee (Horizon) of $882,000.
"

And completely nuts to hear their AD (paraphrased) saying that _80%_ of his athletic budget was spent on travel in the Summit.  He thinks it might now drop to 20-25%.

1993 called and wants its conference back. I vote they rename the conference the Mid-Con...truth in advertising? The only team not from the Mid Con at one point or another...Detroit. Heck, in 1993 this WAS the Mid Con. Everybody now in the "Horizon League" with the exception of Oakland and Detroit, was a member of the Mid Con in 93. Twenty years later, it's the same teams with a different name. Those that come from the sea, return to the sea... :snore:

...and how many NCAA bids did its schools have then?

the conference is like the girl you didn't really notice in junior high, only to find that she had become a 7, 7 and a half in high school.  Maybe an 8 once she fills out, er, expands again.

Quote from: covufan on May 08, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
Welcome to Oakland.  This brings the HL back up to 9, and has been in the works since the Butler move to the A-10 - announced more than a year ago.  The HL needs to move a little faster than a year to replace Loyola - hopefully in the next few weeks.

I prefer to think that Oakland replaced LUC (big RPI gain) and we're looking for someone to replace Butler.  I know NKU is not that school, but I'd like to see them be #10.  With those 10 in hand, the attraction to the HL is bigger and a really good RPI school is within our grasp.

I thought there was some tradition of fixing grammar when using quotes?

From Paul Oren's piece on the Oakland addition
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/oakland-accepts-invitation-to-horizon-league/article_0c5a07b6-73d6-5b89-8393-f5f41a1b0f4e.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/oakland-accepts-invitation-to-horizon-league/article_0c5a07b6-73d6-5b89-8393-f5f41a1b0f4e.html)

Quote
"I think it's fantastic," Valparaiso men's basketball coach Bryce Drew said. "Us, more than anyone else (in the Horizon League), has a tradition with Oakland. We've played extremely competitive games and we were becoming quite a rivalry (in the Mid-Con)."

Us has?  Man.

Interesting to see that Oakland has been added to the top of the HL website, without any 'coming 2013-2014' note:

http://www.horizonleague.org/ (http://www.horizonleague.org/)

Quote from: agibson on May 09, 2013, 09:34:09 AMI thought there was some tradition of fixing grammar when using quotes?

Pretty sure that's been dying if not totally killed off.  If you read Sergei Fedorov quotes back in the day, you'd have thought he was a native speaker; whereas if you read Pavel Datsyuk quotes these days, you'd have thought they actually translated it into gibberish.

Quote from: agibson on May 09, 2013, 09:34:09 AM
From Paul Oren's piece on the Oakland addition
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/oakland-accepts-invitation-to-horizon-league/article_0c5a07b6-73d6-5b89-8393-f5f41a1b0f4e.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/oakland-accepts-invitation-to-horizon-league/article_0c5a07b6-73d6-5b89-8393-f5f41a1b0f4e.html)

Valparaiso vs. Oakland
All-time Records

Men's Basketball: 17-5

Women's Basketball: 9-13

Volleyball: 17-3

Baseball: 19-15

Softball: 13-13

Men's Soccer: 3-6-1

Women's Soccer: 4-7-1

That's 82-62-2, for those of you scoring at home.

POINT VALPO

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 09, 2013, 11:35:24 AM

Quote from: agibson on May 09, 2013, 09:34:09 AMI thought there was some tradition of fixing grammar when using quotes?

Pretty sure that's been dying if not totally killed off.  If you read Sergei Fedorov quotes back in the day, you'd have thought he was a native speaker; whereas if you read Pavel Datsyuk quotes these days, you'd have thought they actually translated it into gibberish.

Pavs, you have been accused of using magic while on the ice. What do you have to say about this?

***Pulls a Sammy Sosa and pretends not to speak English***

Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html)

Nicely done, but noticed he stated something about Valpo being "back in a conference with two members from the old Mid-Con".  Aren't there more than two or am I missing his point?

Yeah, everybody's from the old Mid-Con except Detroit.

Quote from: zvillehaze on May 09, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html)

I took this quote out:

"The Horizon League is a much better basketball league than the Summit League. Trading Oakland for Loyola will only strengthen the league."

It also diminished the summit.

Quote from: zvillehaze on May 09, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html)

Nicely done, but noticed he stated something about Valpo being "back in a conference with two members from the old Mid-Con".  Aren't there more than two or am I missing his point?

I'm guessing he's referring to OU and YSU.  Probably sanity-blocking the history of WSU/CSU/UIC/UWM/UWGB and the old 1994 cloak-of-darkness-Irsay-style exit ;)

I should've explained better. I was referring to teams that left recently for Horizon since Oakland joined Mid-Con. Yes, all these teams trade back and forth with each other.

Quote from: zvillehaze on May 09, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html)

This should be required reading for every member of every HL message board.  Way too much of the conversation about the identity of the HL past, present, and future is being driven by negative ninnys and sad sacks. 

Quote from: zvillehaze on May 09, 2013, 04:03:02 PMHere's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

I thought it was some of his best writing--esp. in re: reasoning/arguing.  Thanks for the link.

Quote from: zvillehaze on May 09, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html)

Yeah, I'm sure the MVC is just suicidal that it incorporated the third largest media market within its conference footprint.  :crazy:   Never mind the fact that games in Chicago now mean that graduates from Bradley, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa can see their school play "locally" and on a more repetitive basis than in years past if they work or reside in Chicagoland. That's what Valpo fans did when they outnumbered Loyola fans at the Gentile as self admittedly stated by the author, right?  Now this can happen in triplicate with Loyola in the league.  Loyola was a terrible addition.

Quote from: crusaderjoe on May 10, 2013, 08:46:10 AMNever mind the fact that games in Chicago now mean that graduates from Bradley, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa can see their school play "locally" and on a more repetitive basis than in years past if they work or reside in Chicagoland.

That's the only valid counterargument that came to mind.  But in this case, it's like they didn't really want Loyola.  They just wanted a place to play "home games" in Chicago then.

Quote from: crusaderjoe on May 10, 2013, 08:46:10 AM

Quote from: zvillehaze on May 09, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html)

Yeah, I'm sure the MVC is just suicidal that it incorporated the third largest media market within its conference footprint.  :crazy:   Never mind the fact that games in Chicago now mean that graduates from Bradley, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa can see their school play "locally" and on a more repetitive basis than in years past if they work or reside in Chicagoland. That's what Valpo fans did when they outnumbered Loyola fans at the Gentile as self admittedly stated by the author, right?  Now this can happen in triplicate with Loyola in the league.  Loyola was a terrible addition.

Attendance at Valpo Loyola game was 1986. The UIC Loyola game was 3263, the only other time that broke 3k. Bradley at UIC manged 3831 for a bracketbuster. I'm glad the HL isn't adding a team based on road attendance from the road team because then we might as well add Chicago State.

Greg Kampe sees better schedule, competition on Horizon for Oakland (with video)

http://www.freep.com/article/20130508/SPORTS08/305080143/oakland-university-horizon-league-greg-kampe (http://www.freep.com/article/20130508/SPORTS08/305080143/oakland-university-horizon-league-greg-kampe)

I never cared much for Kampe humor, but then again some of you may.  Says some interesting things.  I didn't bother watching the video though.

--talks about HL opening recruiting doors (Chicago, Milwaukee)
--talks about HL making at-large possible
--talks about finally having a natural rival
--LeCrone talks about Oakland making the Final Four (no, really)

To say that switching out Loyola for Oakland will get start to get the HL at-large bids is getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I believe that we still need another program with consistent success or at least more name recognition before we can say that the Butler-era at-large bids will return. Even with a 24-7 regular season record this year Valpo was nowhere near the bubble discussion.

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 11, 2013, 09:02:18 PM
Greg Kampe sees better schedule, competition on Horizon for Oakland (with video)

http://www.freep.com/article/20130508/SPORTS08/305080143/oakland-university-horizon-league-greg-kampe (http://www.freep.com/article/20130508/SPORTS08/305080143/oakland-university-horizon-league-greg-kampe)

I never cared much for Kampe humor, but then again some of you may.  Says some interesting things.  I didn't bother watching the video though.

--talks about HL opening recruiting doors (Chicago, Milwaukee)
--talks about HL making at-large possible
--talks about finally having a natural rival
--LeCrone talks about Oakland making the Final Four (no, really)

Wow, someone who's truly excited to be in the HL.  Can you imagine that?  Talks about how you can get to the championship game from this league.  Imagine that!  Maybe we're not actually the "mid con" of old just because the schools are the same.  I'll bet Kampe doesn't think so.  With His attitude rest assured it won't be long before Oakland will be competing for HL titles every year.  That's what visionaries do. All the while this will continue to go over the heads of the same cry baby fans of other HL teams who think the only way their program can become a winner is to switch leagues.  I look to see Valpo, Wright State and Oakland dominate the HL over the next 5 years.  That is unless we add another program with another one of these dreamer coaches full of optimism like Bryce, Donovan and Kampe.

Quote from: mvandersee on May 12, 2013, 04:19:04 PM
To say that switching out Loyola for Oakland will get start to get the HL at-large bids is getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I believe that we still need another program with consistent success or at least more name recognition before we can say that the Butler-era at-large bids will return. Even with a 24-7 regular season record this year Valpo was nowhere near the bubble discussion.

Disagree with you here, like wh said: Valpo, WSU, and Oakland will be the top 3 in the league for many, many years. Will the HL be a multi-bid league every year? No. If The Shot II didn't fall then we would've been playing in the NIT. But if Valpo would've managed a few quality OOC wins, like NM, SLU, or NE then they would've been in the debate for an at-large bid or they could've been seeded higher than the 14. Adding Oakland, another quality mid-major program, adds two more games against a quality opponent and being able to play better teams year in year out is huge. For the HL in order to be a two bid league right now, the answer lay in the OOC schedule and if you can manage a win or two against top ranked programs, you're just that more likely to get an at-large bid.

Like wh said it's guys like Drew, Kampe, and Donnelly that can elevate teams into a powerhouse program, so long this trio of coaches stay, the sky is the limit for their 3 programs.

To say the HL will NEVER be a multi-bid league is a vast over-statement. Will it be every year? No. But if these 3 programs keep excelling and getting quality recruits and have 3 of the best coaches in college basketball and being located in a highly talent rich area. I can see Wright State, Oakland, and Valparaiso turning into household names among the college basketball world in the next 5 to 10 years.

Adding Oakland makes the HL much stronger and like wh said the possibility of another top mid-major program joining in the coming years can really elevate the HL to rival the quality of the MVC if not exceed it. The process is slow and will take time. Nothing is certain but our horizon looks bright.

Quote from: wh on May 12, 2013, 04:26:02 PMWith His attitude rest assured

Gosh, <bold>wh</unbold>...you sound like a disciple already...yipes.

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PMKampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA

He actually said he doesn't have to schedule people like that any more because of the HL, so...there's that.

Sorry on the RPI stuff--I think a3uge will be your math guy there.  In fact, he or gibson may have already done some stuff.

I'll give you non-con though:
MVC was 75-45.  Minus Creighton (11-2) plus Loyola (9-4): 73-47, only 2 games worse, because remember, Loyola didn't suck so hard OOC.
HL was 61-54.  Minus Loyola (9-4) plus Oakland (4-9): 56-59, because Oakland actually played a hard schedule.

So without looking at the actual teams they played, MVC picked up 3 games on us.

All right now you've gotten me warmed up.  Again, if one of y'all did this before, then my apologies, especially to myself, who is doing this on Mother's Day.

MVC average RPI:  117.0  Minus Creighton (25) plus Loyola (223): 136.8
HL average RPI: 166.2  Minus Loyola (223) plus Oakland (166): 158.3

We still have some ground to make up, but we were almost 50 points lower on average at first, and then cut it to 22, so that's good.

Be interesting to see what happens with ConfUSA, the new American Athletic Wutzis, and the relegated A10, as I see those just as likely to be passable in the Brave New World.  (Thanks, LonghornNetwork!)

We are pretty high up already, despite what our Eeyores say, and it'll be as difficult to pass other conferences as it is to get us into one of them...

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 12, 2013, 06:22:57 PM

Quote from: wh on May 12, 2013, 04:26:02 PMWith His attitude rest assured

Gosh, <bold>wh</unbold>...you sound like a disciple already...yipes.

Not a disciple but I do admire his unfettered optimism as leader of a program that earned a promotion to a better league by overcoming recruiting obstacles that only Valpo can relate to among current HL teams. The rest of these coaching staffs have never had to try to convince recruits to come play for a team that plays against a bunch of low major teams 5 or 6 states away. Or, convince players to play in their inferior facilities over everyone else's glitz and glitter arenas.  These other teams have no idea how good they've got it by comparison, and yet some still recruit like crap.  Then their fans have the audacity to think they should be promoted to a higher rated conference when they can't even pull their weight in the HL. Today's entitlement culture proudly on display in the Horizon League.

Oh, I know, I was just pointing out that you capitalized His, like he was Jesus or the dictator of the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea.

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 12, 2013, 09:20:46 PM
Oh, I know, I was just pointing out that you capitalized His, like he was Jesus or the dictator of the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea.

Oh my word, you quip went right over my head. lol

I'm pretty sure Kampe has scheduled the UCLAs and NCs of the world for this coming year but said he wouldn't have to after this year because of the higher rpi of the Horizon.  It should be interresting how it all shakes out!

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 09:39:24 PMI'm pretty sure Kampe has scheduled the UCLAs and NCs of the world for this coming year

True--I read it to mean the past year, but you are right.

Last year of the top 60 they had
Alabama (60)
Tennessee (59)
Us. (58)  Also, in other news we had a better RPI than 2 SEC (football) powers.  So yeah.
Boise St (45)
Pittsburgh (44)
Michigan St (9)  In worse news we were the only win they had.

For the latest in mitigating circumstances, though, let's go to Channel 6's Brick Sprickly.  Brick?
"Tom, tonight heads are shaking at that last comment.  I spoke to people on the internet, who pointed out that among those top 60 teams, Valpo was also the only home game they had.  Also, you should probably go to bed as your posts are getting increasingly erratic. Back to (V) yoU."

Consider that, my fine friends:  a home schedule where the biggest and best draw is YOUR VALPO CRUSADERS.  Also their only legit home nonconference D1 game, other than the BracketBluster.  Seriously, if you don't believe me:
http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Oakland.html (http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Oakland.html)
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2473/oakland-golden-grizzlies (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2473/oakland-golden-grizzlies)

"Look out Horizon League 'cause the Golden Grizzlies are here"

http://wjbk.videodownload.worldnow.com/WJBK_0805201317131941347AC.mp4 (http://wjbk.videodownload.worldnow.com/WJBK_0805201317131941347AC.mp4)

Notice the reference to opening up new recruiting areas - Chicago, Milwaukee, the entire state of Ohio.  The enthusiasm is a breath of fresh air.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that we drop a 216 rpi (end of season) and add a 150 while the Valley drops a 20 and adds a a 216.  This has to help the Horizon rank wise but should hurt the Valley even more.  Now, both Oakland's and Loyola's rpi should move up (given an identical schedule) because of the improvement in the conference part but Oakland's should improve more because of the significant jump in competition.

Oakland is no joke, they will be an immediate player because they were getting it done without being able to recruit all the talent they wanted. Now all I have to say is look out!

Suit and tie means something with Kampe means he is going to polish this one for a while. Just from joking with people at Oakland I know the Griz want to break it off in Detroit.  :o Let em know were they really rank if you can see where that is going. Years of hassle and ludicrous matchups because of that boycott has to chap the arse. It is going to be intense, Detroit is in for a very very rude awakening. I wouldn't be socked to see Oakland get the MVC invite if they have 2 years of success in the HL. They could be asked to join with Valpo...  :-X

No football drama, hoops schools, decent market place awareness, Detroit & 'The Shot' joining to make the MVC 12. Dayton and SLU having just committed to the Big East. Not too far fetched... RPI it and tell me I am crazy.

Quote from: Western4Life on May 13, 2013, 06:36:27 PMNo football drama, hoops schools, decent market place awareness, Detroit & 'The Shot' joining to make the MVC 12. Dayton and SLU having just committed to the Big East. Not too far fetched... RPI it and tell me I am crazy.

UD and SLU didn't just commit to the Big East.  They have not been invited. 

Quote from: Western4Life on May 13, 2013, 06:36:27 PMDetroit & 'The Shot' joining to make the MVC 12. Dayton and SLU having just committed to the Big East.

Quote from: Big D on May 13, 2013, 06:52:22 PMUD and SLU didn't just commit to the Big East.  They have not been invited. 

Big D, read the previous sentence--s/he's talking future events, not present.  As in, "imagine Detroit and VU joining the MVC (this happening right after Dayton and SLU join the Almost Catholic Conference)".

I heard Kampe say he could afford to dial it back... a little.  I didn't hear him say he was going to stop altogether.  I'm still thinking he's going to set a great example on non-con scheduling.

Also, LeCrone and Kampe both simply pointed out -- re: making it to the final four -- that it's been done from this conference.  Neither one of them implied it was going to be easy.  In fact, you can tell from the way LeCrone framed it (using that old "answer a question you assume people are asking" gimmick): "No, it is not out of the question for Oakland or Detroit or some other HL team to make it to the Final Four."  Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  But it doesn't have to be.  I guarantee you Kampe knows how hard it is.  It's not his job to be a realist.  It's his job to have a vision and a goal and sell his recruits on it.

Oakland opens the 2013-14 season with North Carolina, UCLA, Cal, and Gonzaga, all on the road, of course. They'll probably also play at Michigan State.

Quote from: Pathfinder on May 14, 2013, 07:08:41 AMOakland opens the 2013-14 season with North Carolina, UCLA, Cal, and Gonzaga, all on the road, of course. They'll probably also play at Michigan State.

Is there any sliver of hope that they can get one of these games?  If so, which one?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Gonzaga.  I originally had UCLA in mind, but with Steve Alford there, they might be a bit more disciplined and defensive minded to lose to the Grizz.

I know this will probably change the tenor of this thread, but I had to ask.

Does Oakland have a bunch of kids returning or is this a rebuilding year?

I just researched my own question!  They only graduated two and I have no idea how much of an impact those two had.  They should be pretty tough.

Quote from: vu72 on May 14, 2013, 09:24:07 AM
Does Oakland have a bunch of kids returning or is this a rebuilding year?

I just researched my own question!  They only graduated two and I have no idea how much of an impact those two had.  They should be pretty tough.

They probably have one of the leading candidates for POY in Travis Bader, who averaged 22 PPG last season. They'll definitely be in the top tear of the HL next season.

Quote from: classof2014 on May 14, 2013, 09:30:56 AMin the top tear of the HL

better than a top tear of the ACL

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

Quote from: milanmiracle on May 14, 2013, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  I wasn't saying that we would/could make the final four or anything like that.  The question has to do with conference rpi.

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PMI'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like? Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Last season the HL was the 12th rated conference in the nation, and that was with Loyola.  The MVC was rated 8th or 9th and that was with Creighton.  Of course they still have Wichita State, but like it is with the HL, teams 2-10 are pretty much a crap shoot comparatively speaking.  Heads up last season, the Valley got us, we give them that.  This season, however, the addition of Oakland does make the HL stronger as well as the conference having pretty good recruiting classes across the board.  The Grizz return a couple of nice players in Bader and Mondy plus a decent recruiting class.  But to get over the hump that is the Missouri Valley and the A-10, I think we need to continue on our upward trend and bring in a program like Belmont.  Belmont would absolutely put us over the hump. If the HL wanted to be more visionary, then the addition of Murray State and Northern Kentucky would definitely put us in the top 10. This also would increase our chances of having multiple teams in the Dance.

The Horizon needs to develop a sense of unity and strength as it pertains to its member institutions and cease the talk and/or appearance of wanting to leaving this conference.  It's a good league and will only get better.

Quote from: milanmiracle on May 14, 2013, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

Butler made the final four twice... Didn't mean the Horizon was better than the MVC in those two years. And by this standard MVC > ACC, SEC, BIG12...

Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

Quote from: a3uge on May 14, 2013, 02:28:20 PM


Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

I don't think anybody's anointing NKU as much as noting that they have done an excellent job of transitioning to the Division I level. They've spent money on athletics. They vigorously recruit their area eventhough, like most of us, they're going up against the Big Boys. Most programs when they move up, usually take more than the required 4 years to be a respectable program. NKU is doing it the right way. We talk about facilities and spending money. Why? Well, it means you have a better shot at bringing in recruits. Every recruit nowadays know they are not going to North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, et al, but a whole lot of them still like to play in nice arenas with fans cheering. NKU has this. In NKU's first season in Division I, they finished 9-9 in conference and, I think 11-15 or 16. For a first year D1 program, that's not bad.

We're not anointing them, just looking at their upside...and it's good.

Quote from: vu72 on May 14, 2013, 11:57:41 AM

Quote from: milanmiracle on May 14, 2013, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  I wasn't saying that we would/could make the final four or anything like that.  The question has to do with conference rpi.

Until some games in the NCAA tournament are won by teams still in the conference, is this really a discussion? I started researching the MVC vs. the Horizon League vs. the OVC in the NCAA's, but it became tiresome.

Since 2003 Milwaukee is the only Horizon League team to win games in the NCAA (3), while the OVC has 3 wins since 2010. Wichita State beat both in one year by going 4-1 last year and as a conference they are 8-6 since 2010.

Quote from: a3uge on May 14, 2013, 02:28:20 PM

Quote from: milanmiracle on May 14, 2013, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

Butler made the final four twice... Didn't mean the Horizon was better than the MVC in those two years. And by this standard MVC > ACC, SEC, BIG12...Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

No, that's true, it certainly doesn't mean that the Horizon was better than the MVC, but it does add credibility and legitamacy to those in the conference. Valpo seems to like to hang their hat on beating Butler the last four times they played...why? Because you beat a nationally respected team, not a team that missed the NCAA tournament one of those years.

I've already stated that I like the Oakland addition ... they value basketball, have baseball and are within the Horizon footprint.  Win, win, win.

With that said, it's probably not fair for people (me included) to crown them as the team to elevate the Horizon.  After digging into the details, they do return 4 starters ... but their last 5 games this season included a loss to YSU and THREE losses to IPFW.  Time to temper my expectations a bit.

IMO, Milan hit on a key issue.  Conference RPI rating is "nice" and gives you a general idea of where you stand.  However, things like wins over BCS schools, putting multiple teams in the NCAA tourney and getting NCAA tourney wins are the things that get your conference national recognition.  Those things also help pay the bills.

It hasn't been mentioned here, but the Horizon has had back-to-back years of earning one NCAA tourney share.  If that doesn't change in the next 3 or 4 years, the league will be back to earning under $2 million in tourney shares.  That sounds like a lot, but compared to the $4.5 million they earned in 2011 and 2012, that would be a significant decrease.

As many have mentioned, adding Oakland fixes things for now.  Any teams added going forward need to be "at-large quality" teams that can earn additional bids and garner some wins in the NCAA tourney.

Quote from: Chuck A on May 14, 2013, 02:27:35 PMThe Horizon needs to develop a sense of unity and strength as it pertains to its member institutions and cease the talk and/or appearance of wanting to leaving this conference.  It's a good league and will only get better.

As long as Kampe is coaching, the Oakland addition looks very good. The Loyola departure for mens basketball should also be a positive. All else being equal and with the current memberships I would think the HL would be slightly better than the MVC maybe 1 year out of 5, dead even in another, and not too far back in the other 3. Given all the recent turmoil I feel reasonably comfortable being so positioned.

Quote from: milanmiracle on May 14, 2013, 04:39:36 PM

Quote from: vu72 on May 14, 2013, 11:57:41 AM

Quote from: milanmiracle on May 14, 2013, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2013, 06:48:30 PMSince 2003, Milwaukee is the only Horizon League team to win games in the NCAA (3).

For the record, Cleveland State defeated fourth-seeded Wake Forest 84-69 in what used to be known as the NCAA Tournament first round in 2009 in a dazzling display.

This marks the league's only other tournament victory since 2003.

Eddie and Milan have this right. Tournament and non-conference performance are how a league makes a name for itself, not RPI, though the latter can be a means of improving one's lot.

Oakland's baseball facility is not very good. Western is playing there in the SL tourney at the moment. They give baseball some stability but if you need the Leathernecks to help just call us up  ;D Facilities are so hard to invest into when you have an entire campus arms race to fight. http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-baseball-field.html (http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-baseball-field.html) If Western had a players clubhouse it would be a legit baseball facility after the recent seating, press box, and dugout upgrades. I feel Western has put terrible pics of the field up or at least the display of them is poor from my perspective. http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=623290 (http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=623290) This is better. http://www.flickr.com/photos/westernillinoisuniversity/2379665281/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/westernillinoisuniversity/2379665281/#) I am a big baseball fan so don't get too mad. I can just get a little  :crazy:


Kampe will keep basketball at a high level in the HL, he finally be able to recruit talent comparable enough to compete for March Madness wins.... so watch out. Seriously. Support for them will increase on and off campus as well, the HL move would be big time for any SL school honestly. I know Western would prefer to see itself there with the MVFC affiliation.

PS, Western's AD is out and Leatherneck club membership is up almost triple digits in 72 hours ha. I'd love to see Valpo on the schedule soon.

Quote from: Western4Life on May 25, 2013, 12:07:49 PMFacilities are so hard to invest into when you have an entire campus arms race to fight.

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/House-Sad-Head-Nod.gif)

The Oakland Athletic Dept. is promoting a new T-shirt with "A NEW HORIZON" and their logo on the front.  It comes in 3 different colors, as well.  Pretty cool.

http://www.oaklandgrizzliesgear.com (http://www.oaklandgrizzliesgear.com)

(http://www.okierover.com/cars/78HorizB.jpg)
pretty sweet.  i'd buy one.  everything old is new again.

In that case let's go back to the Ford model T. This one, of course, has been altered because model T's only came in black.

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLe9Uj3V1UXI2UwBoG_JpNYYU6PNVRKFoO07SofoFhJ3709oCK)

Interesting sudden development out of Oakland: university president announces retirement on same day his wife, the women's basketball coach, is fired:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130612/SCHOOLS/306120111/1361/Oakland-University-president-Russi-retiring-Aug.-1 (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130612/SCHOOLS/306120111/1361/Oakland-University-president-Russi-retiring-Aug.-1)

Quote from: valpopal on June 13, 2013, 12:13:38 PM
Interesting sudden development out of Oakland: university president announces retirement on same day his wife, the women's basketball coach, is fired:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130612/SCHOOLS/306120111/1361/Oakland-University-president-Russi-retiring-Aug.-1 (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130612/SCHOOLS/306120111/1361/Oakland-University-president-Russi-retiring-Aug.-1)

Odd.  How would you like to be the AD - having to fire your boss's wife?

It's easier if you force him to retire the same day.

Remember, you're the AD and he's just a president.

In the words of the late great E Gordon Gee, "Fire him? I just hope Coach Tressel doesn't fire meeeee!"

{sound of 10 million Wolverines laughing hysterically}

It does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

Quote from: historyman on June 13, 2013, 11:57:22 PM
It does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

My sense is this: the women's program has really been struggling lately, but it has been difficult to fire her because of her relationship with the president.  A deal was worked out whereby the President would retire and the coach would go with him (I've seen "fired", I've seen "relieved", and I've seen "retired"), and the tension is gone.

Not a good situation, but I really don't get the feeling there's anything scandalous that has yet to surface.  Always possible, of course (and it was my first gut reaction), but the above (gleaned from the OU message board, by the way) seems quite plausible and not fishy at all.

Quote from: StlVUFan on June 17, 2013, 05:24:54 PM

Quote from: historyman on June 13, 2013, 11:57:22 PMIt does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

My sense is this: the women's program has really been struggling lately, but it has been difficult to fire her because of her relationship with the president.  A deal was worked out whereby the President would retire and the coach would go with him (I've seen "fired", I've seen "relieved", and I've seen "retired"), and the tension is gone. Not a good situation, but I really don't get the feeling there's anything scandalous that has yet to surface.  Always possible, of course (and it was my first gut reaction), but the above (gleaned from the OU message board, by the way) seems quite plausible and not fishy at all.

The fact that an AD is afraid to fire a women's basketball coach because she is married to the president of the university in my view is at least partly fishy.

Quote from: historyman on June 17, 2013, 07:48:03 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on June 17, 2013, 05:24:54 PM

Quote from: historyman on June 13, 2013, 11:57:22 PMIt does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

My sense is this: the women's program has really been struggling lately, but it has been difficult to fire her because of her relationship with the president.  A deal was worked out whereby the President would retire and the coach would go with him (I've seen "fired", I've seen "relieved", and I've seen "retired"), and the tension is gone. Not a good situation, but I really don't get the feeling there's anything scandalous that has yet to surface.  Always possible, of course (and it was my first gut reaction), but the above (gleaned from the OU message board, by the way) seems quite plausible and not fishy at all.

The fact that an AD is afraid to fire a women's basketball coach because she is married to the president of the university in my view is at least partly fishy.

It's not fishy any more because it's known.  "Fishy" happened years ago.  Obviously, what I'm saying is that things were probably not right.  When I say there's nothing fishy now, I mean it is reasonable to assume that there's nothing *else* going on that's still being covered up (ya know, the kinds of things my mind flashes on these days).

Quote from: StlVUFan on June 19, 2013, 09:46:25 AM

Quote from: historyman on June 17, 2013, 07:48:03 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on June 17, 2013, 05:24:54 PM

Quote from: historyman on June 13, 2013, 11:57:22 PMIt does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

My sense is this: the women's program has really been struggling lately, but it has been difficult to fire her because of her relationship with the president.  A deal was worked out whereby the President would retire and the coach would go with him (I've seen "fired", I've seen "relieved", and I've seen "retired"), and the tension is gone. Not a good situation, but I really don't get the feeling there's anything scandalous that has yet to surface.  Always possible, of course (and it was my first gut reaction), but the above (gleaned from the OU message board, by the way) seems quite plausible and not fishy at all.

The fact that an AD is afraid to fire a women's basketball coach because she is married to the president of the university in my view is at least partly fishy.

It's not fishy any more because it's known.  "Fishy" happened years ago.  Obviously, what I'm saying is that things were probably not right.  When I say there's nothing fishy now, I mean it is reasonable to assume that there's nothing *else* going on that's still being covered up (ya know, the kinds of things my mind flashes on these days).

It didn't get fishy until Kampe tweeted about a fish sandwich he had at McDonalds.  ::)

Mystery surrounds departure of Oakland University President Gary Russi and wife Beckie Francis

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory)

Just for those trying to do the math I'll save you some time. Russi is 67. Francis is 47-49 in my best estimation. She graduated from Colgate in 1987.

Quote from: wh on June 20, 2013, 07:57:51 AM
Mystery surrounds departure of Oakland University President Gary Russi and wife Beckie Francis

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory)

This article was written by Paul Kampe - any relation to Greg?

Quote from: covufan on June 20, 2013, 11:34:52 AM

Quote from: wh on June 20, 2013, 07:57:51 AM
Mystery surrounds departure of Oakland University President Gary Russi and wife Beckie Francis

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory)

This article was written by Paul Kampe - any relation to Greg?

His blog mentions that he is no relation to Greg Kampe

http://opgrizzden.blogspot.com/ (http://opgrizzden.blogspot.com/)

Quote from: wh on June 20, 2013, 07:57:51 AM
Mystery surrounds departure of Oakland University President Gary Russi and wife Beckie Francis

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory)

This whole thing is a little odd.  Just as they are about to enter the Horizon League, they fire a coach that took them from Division II to I, and until the past two seasons had a respectful career.

With her husband also retiring, there must be more to the story. 

Quote from: covufan on June 20, 2013, 12:09:07 PM

Quote from: wh on June 20, 2013, 07:57:51 AM
Mystery surrounds departure of Oakland University President Gary Russi and wife Beckie Francis

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/19/news/local_news/doc51c2146d6b1eb825078959.txt?viewmode=fullstory)

This whole thing is a little odd.  Just as they are about to enter the Horizon League, they fire a coach that took them from Division II to I, and until the past two seasons had a respectful career.

With her husband also retiring, there must be more to the story. 

I don't think the firing of a coach that had some success earlier but at this time has been faltering and moving in a downward direction is a problem. It seems much like Keith Freeman's departure from Valpo. The odd thing is that she happen to get fired the very day her husband announces his retirement from being president of the university where she is employed and that it happens within 30 days of Oakland moving into the Horizon League. Why couldn't she be fired earlier? Why didn't President Russi announce his retirement before OU and the HL announced the Grizzlies move to the HL?

Has LeCrone been duped? Are there more surprises coming down the pike after OU starts playing games/matches in the HL?

Learning more in dribs and drabs:

Oakland University says women's basketball coach Beckie Francis fired with cause

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/21/news/doc51c4736ba700b867204715.txt (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/06/21/news/doc51c4736ba700b867204715.txt)

I thought I knew what ridiculous was.

And then I read the comments on the article.

But thanks for posting--curiouser and curiouser...

Yeah, after reading Kampe's article, I do want to know more of the "hush hush" at OU. I could do without the childish two-year-old putdowns and stupid comments by what seem to be Detroit fans.

Mick McCabe of the Free Press weighs in:
http://www.freep.com/article/20130621/SPORTS08/306210104/beckie-francis-oakland-university-fired (http://www.freep.com/article/20130621/SPORTS08/306210104/beckie-francis-oakland-university-fired)

Seems like our new transfer(s) could give it a pretty succinct description:  the same problem the new Rutgers AD is having about when she was a women's volleyball coach at Tennessee...

QuoteThe investigation into Francis' program was believed to be triggered after player meetings with school officials.

All coaches lose players who decide to transfer to other schools, but Francis appears to have lost more than her fair share.

This spring three players asked to be released from their scholarships and another was told she would no longer be permitted to be on the team, although she could keep her scholarship.

In an earlier article a spokesperson for the university indicated that they were investigating possible malfeasance.  That sounds a lot different than bullying players or running players off.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306260036 (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306260036)

"Ex-Oakland women's hoops player, Muslim says Christian beliefs were imposed unfairly by now-fired coach"

Don't bother with the comments.  There are a lot of dumb people in Michigan.

Oh, and Muslims are famous for NEVER imposing their beliefs, btw.

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on June 26, 2013, 07:38:19 PM
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306260036 (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306260036)

"Ex-Oakland women's hoops player, Muslim says Christian beliefs were imposed unfairly by now-fired coach"

Don't bother with the comments.  There are a lot of dumb people in Michigan.

Oh, and Muslims are famous for NEVER imposing their beliefs, btw.

So you tell us to avoid the comments section, and then make that comment.  ::)

Speaking of people famous for imposing their beliefs, response from people to Mark Snyder, Freep author of the above article on Twitter...

(http://s17.postimg.org/j6jtkpgrj/Screen_shot_2013_06_27_at_9_02_20_AM.png)

Coach Francis will be a martyr before all is said and done...

To bring it back on topic a bit, the problem I see (assuming the allegations are true) is that -- especially considering this is a public university we are talking about, right? -- there is no reason to organize a basketball team as any kind of religious organization.  Certainly, if you are going to do that, you might want to cross your i's and dot your t's during the recruiting process.  The fact that doing so is probably illegal should be enough to warn you off the whole idea to begin with.

You are recruiting student-athletes, not disciples.  Those student-athletes *do* come with outside allegiances, of course.  Your job as coach is to meld them into a basketball community, not a religious community.  Your mission is to compete on the court and win.  You don't need religious doctrine to coach cohesiveness and sportsmanship.

The only fact I know that has any bearing on the actual facts of this case was an ORU fan friend of mine who was the assigned escort for Oakland's women's team at the conference tournament in Tulsa one year, and Francis shared with him the inspiring bible verse that encapsulated their memory of their experience with him (escort means helping to make sure they find their hotel, good restaurants to eat at, navigate around town, etc.).  My sense was that she was comfortable with the charismatic Christian culture that is thick down there.  Of course, I think my friend is comfortable with it too, but he's not a fanatic about it.

My sense is that Bryce is kinda comfortable with that culture too, by the way, for whatever that's worth.

If a coach feels that strongly about the Muslim faith, then somewhere in the recruiting process you should be able to get an idea about it, right?  If you are a Christian coach and you feel blindsided, then be a Christian (not to mention professional) coach.  Be upfront with that player, find some way to resolve the situation amicably.

Full disclosure: there are things written in my bible that embarrass me, so I am going to allow a Muslim person to say the same thing about their Koran.

July 1: Time to Welcome Oakland!

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html)

Perhaps the Mod can now replace Loyola with Oakland on the Horizon League Forums links.

Quote from: valpopal on July 01, 2013, 09:38:10 AM
July 1: Time to Welcome Oakland!

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html)

Perhaps the Mod can now replace Loyola with Oakland on the Horizon League Forums links.

Got a link?

Quote from: valpo04 on July 01, 2013, 09:47:33 AM

Quote from: valpopal on July 01, 2013, 09:38:10 AM
July 1: Time to Welcome Oakland!

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html)

Perhaps the Mod can now replace Loyola with Oakland on the Horizon League Forums links.

Got a link?

This is the one I have been following.  I'm not aware of any others.

http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com (http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com)

Quote from: wh on July 01, 2013, 10:47:44 AM

Quote from: valpo04 on July 01, 2013, 09:47:33 AM

Quote from: valpopal on July 01, 2013, 09:38:10 AM
July 1: Time to Welcome Oakland!

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html)

Perhaps the Mod can now replace Loyola with Oakland on the Horizon League Forums links.

Got a link?

This is the one I have been following.  I'm not aware of any others.

http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com (http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com)

Thanks for the link.

You need to register for an account before you can even view their board?  That seems rather... uninviting.

Quote from: valpo04 on July 01, 2013, 10:51:38 AM

Quote from: wh on July 01, 2013, 10:47:44 AM

Quote from: valpo04 on July 01, 2013, 09:47:33 AM

Quote from: valpopal on July 01, 2013, 09:38:10 AM
July 1: Time to Welcome Oakland!

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/welcome-oakland.html)

Perhaps the Mod can now replace Loyola with Oakland on the Horizon League Forums links.

Got a link?

This is the one I have been following.  I'm not aware of any others.

http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com (http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com)

Thanks for the link.

You need to register for an account before you can even view their board?  That seems rather... uninviting.

Agreed.  Loyola has a new board, and they've done the same thing.  Unless you have a pay site, it seems like a lot of unnecessary overkill for a message board. 

I apologize for these comments on the dismissal of the Oakland women's coach (and probably the president), but I would like to offer several comments:

1.  The NCAA should investigate Oakland if they are not already.  If others knew what was going on with the coach pushing her religious views on players (including her husband, which seems obvious), the NCAA should impose sanctions on the Oakland women's program.  Violating the first amendment and civil rights of players should be punishable by major sanctions, with allowance for any player to transfer without sitting out one year.  I will be the first to admit that I do not know the rules on this, but it would serve Oakland right to suffer for this gross injustice.
2.  Any program that hires this woman in the future is a disgrace.
3.  While I respect this player for not bringing civil or criminal charges (if the latter is possible), part of me wishes she would.
4.  We all know the religious beliefs of the Drew family.  I had never really thought about this until I read the Detroit Free Press article, but Homer and Bryce have (as far as I know) shown strong ethics in respecting others' beliefs (clearly in their many years with the program they must have had many players that do not share their beliefs).  Scott may be a bit questionable at Baylor (warm up jerseys in recent years come to mind), but of course it is a private school and I have no reason to think that Scott imposed anything.  And...private schools (unlike Oakland) have greater freedom in this area (though I have no idea where First Amendment and civil rights laws still apply).

The Oakland athletics department is holding a Fan Fest this coming Tuesday to celebrate their entry into the Horizon League:

http://www.oakland.edu/view_news.aspx?sid=34&nid=10295 (http://www.oakland.edu/view_news.aspx?sid=34&nid=10295)

They are doing a great job of marketing Oakland athletics and the Horizon League through this move - public announcements, TV and radio interviews with coaches and AD, articles, events, sportswear, etc. It's obvious they have developed a comprehensive marketing plan to roll out this change.  Impressive!   

Oakland held their fan fest yesterday, Tuesday, 7/16, at the O'Rena which was a celebration of joining the Horizon League. Along with that OU announced their 2013-14 men's basketball schedule. And what a schedule it is!!!

Away games--North Carolina, UCLA, California, Gonzaga, Western Michigan, Indiana and 8 HL games

Home games--Rochester College, Ohio, Michigan State (at the Palace of Auburn Hills), Illinois State, Eastern Michigan, Olivet and 8 HL games

The important HL games are 1/2/14 at Wright State (first HL game), 1/4/14 Valpo (first home HL game), 1/11/14 at Detroit (most likely will have more fans than Titans), 2/9/14 at Valpo and 2/14/14 Detroit at the O'Rena on Valentines Day on ESPN. Bring a date and hate on Detroit.

http://www.ougrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/071713aac.html (http://www.ougrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/071713aac.html)

When will Valpo post their official b'ball schedule?

I am assuming that the Gonzaga game is a part of the Maui Invitational mainland portion per this article:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9485278/gonzaga-bulldogs-syracuse-orange-play-ea-sports-maui-invitational (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9485278/gonzaga-bulldogs-syracuse-orange-play-ea-sports-maui-invitational)

Quote from: oklahomamick on July 17, 2013, 01:00:19 PM
When will Valpo post their official b'ball schedule?

In recent years from memory the schedule is often finalized and released mid to late August.

Quote from: valpotx on July 17, 2013, 01:09:51 PM
I am assuming that the Gonzaga game is a part of the Maui Invitational mainland portion per this article:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9485278/gonzaga-bulldogs-syracuse-orange-play-ea-sports-maui-invitational (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9485278/gonzaga-bulldogs-syracuse-orange-play-ea-sports-maui-invitational)

The tournament will begin with four "mainland teams" -- Coastal Carolina, Louisiana, Oakland and St. Francis, Brooklyn -- playing the seven teams headed for Maui in seven games to be played Nov. 15-19 at campus sites. The mainland teams will play a tournament at Coastal Carolina on Nov. 23-24.

Since the date of the Oakland/Gonzaga game is Nov. 17 and that matches the time frame of the mainland teams' games of Nov. 15-19 I would assume you are correct that the game against Gonzaga is part of the Maui Invitational/mainland portion. Oakland also shows games with "TBA" opponents on Nov. 23-24 at the HTC Center in Myrtle Beach, SC which matches up with the Coastal Carolina part of the Maui Invitational.

Quote from: bbtds on July 17, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: valpotx on July 17, 2013, 01:09:51 PM
I am assuming that the Gonzaga game is a part of the Maui Invitational mainland portion per this article:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9485278/gonzaga-bulldogs-syracuse-orange-play-ea-sports-maui-invitational (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9485278/gonzaga-bulldogs-syracuse-orange-play-ea-sports-maui-invitational)

The tournament will begin with four "mainland teams" -- Coastal Carolina, Louisiana, Oakland and St. Francis, Brooklyn -- playing the seven teams headed for Maui in seven games to be played Nov. 15-19 at campus sites. The mainland teams will play a tournament at Coastal Carolina on Nov. 23-24.

Since the date of the Oakland/Gonzaga game is Nov. 17 and that matches the time frame of the mainland teams' games of Nov. 15-19 I would assume you are correct that the game against Gonzaga is part of the Maui Invitational/mainland portion. Oakland also shows games with "TBA" opponents on Nov. 23-24 at the HTC Center in Myrtle Beach, SC which matches up with the Coastal Carolina part of the Maui Invitational.

From the schedule on the Oakland website ( http://www.ougrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/oakl-m-baskbl-sched.html  (http://www.ougrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/oakl-m-baskbl-sched.html) ), their Maui games are at Cal (11/15), at Gonzaga (11/17) and the two TBA games at Myrtle Beach on 11/23 and 11/24.

Yep.  Sparring partner, Oakland is.  Tournament, my ass.

Quote from: StlVUFan on July 18, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
Yep.  Sparring partner, Oakland is.  Tournament, my ass.

I am not saying you are wrong but over the years I have concluded that we need to schedule more like them and less like us. If we can remain being a 4 year out of 5 top 100 rpi program then what is wrong with hitting the road for some big paychecks? Some 2 for 1s?

Working on a good home schedule isn't easy and still will not be after ARC improvements are made so the only thing fully under our control is the quality of the home opponents we do sign. Sorry folks but last year you couldn't have paid me enough for me to have showed up and watched Chicago St. or Purdue Calumet. If I had center court chairbacks in the first 3 rows for those games and had made a dozen phone calls I doubt if I would have found a taker to give them away. It wouldn't have been too much easier for some of the other games! How can you talk anyone new into buying a season ticket with a home schedule like we had last year?

I hope our overall schedule continues to improve even if it will mean fewer home games.

I think you completely mis-interpreted what StL meant by his post.

Quote from: vusupporter on July 18, 2013, 02:46:06 PM
I think you completely mis-interpreted what StL meant by his post.

Indeed.  justducky, I absolutely agree with you on your point.  I was talking specifically and only about these *&#@) &%)&*#%&%)& tournaments that aren't really tournaments.  A sparring partner is someone the boxer practices on before the actual fight.  It matters not how the practice turns out: the fighter, not the sparring partner, takes to the ring for the big event.

A year or two ago, Cleveland State was in one of these, and they went down to Vanderbilt and beat the home team (convincingly if I'm not mistaken).  Vanderbilt nevertheless advanced to MSG for the final four of that tournament and the Vikings were shunted off to some largely ignored sub-regional.  They could point to the RPI bump and Vandy could smart over a bad loss, but in the general ESPN College BBall community, nobody cared about either one of these things.

They're an abomination, is what they are.

I'm by no means disappointed in Kampe for taking part -- it is absolutely legitimate to make lemon-aide out of these lemons.  For all I know, there have been sparring partners who have become outstanding boxers.  Take part, and be ruthless about it.  Not my place to criticize that.

Kampe has also been doing all he can to get some great exposure for Oakland basketball anywhere and everywhere he could. Whether it was taking a paycheck in a game that they were projected to lose horribly, or one of these "tournaments", where they don't go to the finals, but get some guarantee games they don't have to schedule, he'll take it as less stress of his back. Yes, I agree that the "tournaments" in format are a joke, but if they alleviate some of the scheduling messes that most schools face, many coaches and ADs will take them over having to schedule the likes of Purdue Cal, IUSB, IU-N, and other non-NCAA schools just to get a couple of games.