Panthers knock off Crusaders by 7 but it will be a very close game until Valpo has to foul. Unfortunately the Brown & Gold commit many turnovers(+16) and miss needed FT's (9 or more). The biggest problem is that no one except Peters steps up for Dority when LVD scores less than 10.
Oh yeah!
QuoteHere's kind of a wild prediction with several surprises.
@ UIC W
UDM L
OU W
@ UWM L
@ UWGB W
YSU L
@ WSU W
CSU W
QuoteI'm predicting a Valpo win by 5 points.
LaVonte will bounce back and Peters will score more than 10. It will be the defense against Bader and Mondy that will make the difference between the Crusaders loss at the O'rena and this game.
Valpo by 12. I think we match up very well against Milwaukee.
Valpo 67, Milwaukee 52
Valpo will win in the ARC North. By the way, whatever happened to that UWM fan that used to troll our forum and proclaim UIC/Bryce Drew was leaving the Horizon League?
Only three HL teams - CSU, WSU and Oakland - have their screen defender leave our on-ball screener (usually Moussa or Fernandez) and hedge the perimeter as part of their defensive scheme. We almost never make the them pay for double teaming our guards, primarily because neither Moussa nor Fernandez has the coordination to receive a pass over the top while rolling to the basket and finish. Bobby is only slightly better. As a result, our guards are left to flounder around against double team after double team at the point of attack. The proof is in the pudding. We are 1-3 record against these 3 teams, and if not for some good fortune today we'd be 0-4.
We have the ability to beat anyone who doesn't hedge, including Milwaukee and Green Bay, but I will be very surprised if we beat either WSU or CSU the second time around. One of them will likely cause our exit from the tournament, as well.
A3uge, his sources were rock solid :crazy:
The UWM game is at the Cell downtown, not on campus.... hope the weather allows for travel from Valpo, we may have more fans than they do.
OH, not on this thread... and I won't start one yet... but need to get the word out that the YST game on 2/22 is now a 3PM start, will air on the Horizon League Regional Network. I don't know what that means, exactly... but hopefully a Comcast Sportsnet game in the Chicago market. The Crusader Women's game will be at 7pm. Changes to the schedule for the Hall Of Fame stuff that day as well. It's all on the website.
Quote from: wh on February 09, 2014, 06:44:27 PMAs a result, our guards are left to flounder around against double team after double team at the point of attack. The proof is in the pudding. We are 1-3 record against these 3 teams, and if not for some good fortune today we'd be 0-4.
Don't tell Wardle
Another tough one to predict. I will go with my trend that has helped us the most and predict a loss:
Milwaukee 74
Valpo 71
I believe there is another bus or 2 of fans going up for a pre game lunch at one of he donors places and then off to the game. Should be a good time. I will be watching from home though as my Crusaders of the future have basketball games in the morning.
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/hanksta400/1757dac31e751d473f9b4d2e50cb8297_zpsded06cc7.jpg)
In the first go around with UWM Carter played 18 minutes, Coleman 20, and Capo 21 with all 3 playing pretty well. On the other hand Cleo did not enter the game. I would again expect Bobby to receive big minutes (mostly at the expense of Jubril) but how the rest of it shakes out has me baffled. It should be interesting to see how Bryce will play his hand.
Quote from: justducky on February 10, 2014, 12:11:37 AM
In the first go around with UWM Carter played 18 minutes, Coleman 20, and Capo 21 with all 3 playing pretty well. On the other hand Cleo did not enter the game. I would again expect Bobby to receive big minutes (mostly at the expense of Jubril) but how the rest of it shakes out has me baffled. It should be interesting to see how Bryce will play his hand.
Not a bad problem for Bryce to have. I'm guessing he'll go with the hot hand, as usual.
It is nice though to have that depth, when a few guys get in foul trouble early we have another quality player to step in.
My guess is the only difference we'll see in the next game is more playing time from Clay and less from Jordan. So long as Clay can go through a week without getting sick or hurt.
Quote from: classof2014 on February 10, 2014, 12:19:29 AM
It is nice though to have that depth, when a few guys get in foul trouble early we have another quality player to step in.
In the post-game press conference Paul Oren made a great observation to Bryce, who had brought Moussa, Bobby, and Clay to speak as the team representatives. Oren pointed out that all three had come off the bench, and Bryce said their presence as major contributors in the game indicated the depth of this team.
Quote from: valpopal on February 10, 2014, 01:08:22 AM
Quote from: classof2014 on February 10, 2014, 12:19:29 AM
It is nice though to have that depth, when a few guys get in foul trouble early we have another quality player to step in.
In the post-game press conference Paul Oren made a great observation to Bryce, who had brought Moussa, Bobby, and Clay to speak as the team representatives. Oren pointed out that all three had come off the bench, and Bryce said their presence as major contributors in the game indicated the depth of this team.
Bryce talked about how he'd be basically happy to use his second five as a starting five.
Was definitely a nice back and forth.
I like this board. The analysis from W.H. helped me figure out why Valpo is so frustrating to watch this year. The big guys don't move to the ball, catch, drive in a fluid way that is quick enough to keep defenders from crowding our guards.
As a football guy, I don't see it like some of you.
So.....how do you overcome that?...esp. vs CSU and WSU defensive intensity? Play Jubril in the post, Alec on a wing, and play 3 guards?
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 11, 2014, 09:52:10 PMSo.....how do you overcome that?...esp. vs CSU and WSU defensive intensity? Play Jubril in the post, Alec on a wing, and play 3 guards?
I have never coached the game so those of you who have should have better answers than I can provide but-----------------------it seems to me that their are a lot of things we could show that could somewhat force them out of their favored defensive scheme. The big question then is by reinventing our offense will we net enough in positive benefits to outweigh the extra turnovers that the change will likely bring. Moussa and Vashil bring some negative baggage with them no mater where they are placed on the offensive end so it has always seemed to me that it is best when either is in the game to keep them as close to the low post as possible. With that in mind there could be some high post-low post, double low post, twin tower, the 50 year old Cincinnati, down screens, up screens, cross screens, wing cuts or if we insist on sending the bigs up top to screen then simultaneously cut Peters to the low post. A taller point guard than Lexus could also help in this situation but I am not certain that Cleo can help us with this yet but (maybe next year).
Now that I have fully revealed my ignorance of the game all of you can take turns telling me why none of it this would work. :crazy:
For all of the flack that Moussa and Vashil get, it goes unnoticed that Vashil only averages 1 turnover/game. Yes, there are plenty of times where he COULD have lost the ball barring him catching his own fumbles, but Moussa is a lot more likely to travel than Vashil.
Ducky,
I think we are kindred spirits in our expertise. :) Bryce probably didn't pick up much during 6 NBA seasons and his asst. coaching under Homer.
So.......it's good he has us to offer ideas. I threw the word wing in there just because I heard it somewhere. Low post is another buzz word that just sounds like other guys who seem to have a clue.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 13, 2014, 05:10:19 PM
Ducky,
I think we are kindred spirits in our expertise. :) Bryce probably didn't pick up much during 6 NBA seasons and his asst. coaching under Homer.
So.......it's good he has us to offer ideas. I threw the word wing in there just because I heard it somewhere. Low post is another buzz word that just sounds like other guys who seem to have a clue.
lol
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 13, 2014, 05:10:19 PM
Ducky,
I think we are kindred spirits in our expertise. :) Bryce probably didn't pick up much during 6 NBA seasons and his asst. coaching under Homer.
So.......it's good he has us to offer ideas. I threw the word wing in there just because I heard it somewhere. Low post is another buzz word that just sounds like other guys who seem to have a clue.
Hey, even the football guy recognizes that all that old time stuff died or is dying in the era of the 3 point shot. :o But maybe, just maybe by showing them some uncommon looks we could at least get Donlon and Waters scratching their heads and force a timeout. I just hate it that we know exactly how WSU is going to defend us and yet they are the one who seem to dictate the pace and execution of the game. I think maybe before every VU-WSU game Donlon challenges Bryce to a wrestling match and Bryce hollers back "You're On!"
Anyone going to the alumni function on North Terrace before the game. I'm finally going to a MBB game now that i've moved to WI. Haven't seen a Crusader game live since 1991 at the Cell -- I think VU lost that one to UWM. I registered for the get-together at Andrew Nunemaker's. Was looking fwd to the UWGB game up here as well, but the timing just isn't good.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 14, 2014, 01:20:02 PM
Anyone going to the alumni function on North Terrace before the game. I'm finally going to a MBB game now that i've moved to WI. Haven't seen a Crusader game live since 1991 at the Cell -- I think VU lost that one to UWM. I registered for the get-together at Andrew Nunemaker's. Was looking fwd to the UWGB game up here as well, but the timing just isn't good.
Was at his house last year - it's incredible. They had a full service bar after the game in his basement. I'm not going this year, but usually there's about as many Valpo fans as UWM fans at the game.
We don't have enough time to go to the reception, but we will be in attendance at the game.
I am going with my wife and son.... Should be fun. (However, I like UWM games on campus better)
Wife and I will be in attendance. Been treated to some great Valpo-UWM games here recently, looking forward to more of the same.
Quote from: Smj on February 14, 2014, 10:38:11 PM
I like UWM games on campus better
In theory, yes, but it's tough to argue with the immensely better options for food/drink before and after the game that you get out of the US Cellular location. We'll probably hit Hofbräuhaus for pregame drinks, then maybe Major Goolsby's for post-game. Going to a game at Klotsche doesn't offer nearly as good of a total entertainment package.
According to multiple sources Jordan Aaron will not be suiting up tonight for violating team rules. Losing the PG, who's been on fire lately could really impact tonight's game.
Even though he sucks, that will be a big loss for them. I always root for him to shoot, so we will see who steps into his role
Quote from: valpotx on February 15, 2014, 06:47:13 PMEven though he sucks, that will be a big loss for them.
Does this not seem like an oxymoron? This board professes that since he was a poor shot maker last year he will be this year but against Valpo he was the leading scorer for the Panthers at the ARC.
If another HL board said Keith Carter sucks but if he is out that he would be a big loss for Valpo. Wouldn't we say those posters were crazy and not knowledgable?
Did Lavonte get a Mike Tyson tattoo above his right eye?
There have been a couple of plays where Moussa could have just torn the backboard down.
Wish I could be 7'0 and 270 just for one game.
Quote from: historyman on February 15, 2014, 06:56:17 PMThis board professes that since he was a poor shot maker last year he will be this year
um...he is. because before going 17-26 the previous two games he was right at 37.3%. Last year 37.1%.
I've done this before, but I'll post him up again.
(http://s27.postimg.org/4up3l0m5f/Screen_shot_2014_02_15_at_8_57_03_PM.png)
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6164694784/hADAE6104/)
Quote from: historyman on February 15, 2014, 06:56:17 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 15, 2014, 06:47:13 PMEven though he sucks, that will be a big loss for them.
Does this not seem like an oxymoron? This board professes that since he was a poor shot maker last year he will be this year but against Valpo he was the leading scorer for the Panthers at the ARC.
If another HL board said Keith Carter sucks but if he is out that he would be a big loss for Valpo. Wouldn't we say those posters were crazy and not knowledgable?
He sucks, but it is a big loss for them because they really don't have any other scorers on their team to pick up the slack...
Home run pass!!!! :thumbsup:
Our two 7 footers are out.... ???
And now Capobianco is gone.
Bryce's management of our big men tonight is the worst I've ever seen in my 25 years watching basketball.
Well, that was an...interesting...game. Glad for the W. Love the audible "Let's Go Valpo" chants!
I agree with rink. Even though Chadwick hasn't done anything, as I said in the chat, he could have put him in when that terrible Gustavson guy was in. That would have been 6-7 minutes of foul relief for our bigs. Sometimes you have to be willing to play the bench in these games. Gutsy win by the guys despite all of the foul issues, especially the last 5 that basically played the last 9 minutes of the game together. On to a tough game at GB. If we come away with a win there, you never know what can happen, but we control our destiny in regards to the 2 seed, at a minimum.
Quote from: rink on February 15, 2014, 08:52:06 PMBryce's management of our big men tonight is the worst I've ever seen in my 25 years watching basketball.
i thought something along those lines, but...
(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/SNL_5d0901_570325.jpg)
after they all fouled out, we went from leading 53-46 to winning 77-62.
Bigs foul out and we extend the lead. The three freshman did a great job down the stretch.
Dority showed great leadership those last 8 mins.
Quote from: Chairback on February 15, 2014, 09:31:18 PMDority showed great leadership those last 8 mins.
Amen. Every time we needed a bucket.
And it's not like they didn't know he was coming.
Pretty quiet for 19 points.
HEY WHO HAD JORDAN COLEMAN IN THE DOUBLE-DOUBLE POOL YOU JUST CLEANED UP
Incredibly interesting game. All our bigs foul out with 10 or so to go and they cut the lead to just a possession, I though we were done for. Then we get a 15 point victory. Coleman had his best game in a Crusader uniform with an unlikely double-double and LVD with 19 quiet ones.
This win puts us in great spot to at least get a 1st round bye, and if we win out, a double bye. Big win, and our first quality road win. Hopefully we can build on this one and head up I-43 to Cheeseville and steal a win and put is in contention for first.
The freshman today had a combine 28 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, and only 4 TOs. Great over game (minus the bigs).
I certainly was wrong about this game. I had predicted that our faithful scorer, LVD, would have an off game but that only Peters would come through in making up some of Dority's points. Well, not only did our usual scorer, LaVonte come through (maybe a tad short of one of his huge nights) but Peters AND Coleman came through with great nights. Adekoya did some needed scoring in the stretch run after our big men fouled out and Lexus contributed a big 9 points for the win. Keith Carter came through also with 8 points by hitting two 3's in the early going and another basket in the 2nd half. It sure was a needed team effort when Valpo could have folded without it's big men but it refused to fall and actually increased the lead with clutch plays at a critical time. Peters played well defensively in the big man area when it was needed as did Coleman. Sure glad Yeo didn't get more of Coleman's minutes. That's not to say that Yeo played poorly just that Jordan really came through in this game. Thank God for a bad prediction.
Being able to fight through diversity is a mark of a great team. I know the wins haven't always been there, but winning in different ways shows great promise. Admittedly Dority did seem to "take over the game" (as Brandon Wood was known for), but having our 3 big men foul out and end up with a larger point margin was remarkable and showed the strength of the rest of the team.
The 2 seem seems like a stretch, but I'm already surprised at this team and they're far exceeding my expectations.
Quote from: valpotx on February 15, 2014, 09:25:54 PM
I agree with rink. Even though Chadwick hasn't done anything, as I said in the chat, he could have put him in when that terrible Gustavson guy was in. That would have been 6-7 minutes of foul relief for our bigs. Sometimes you have to be willing to play the bench in these games. Gutsy win by the guys despite all of the foul issues, especially the last 5 that basically played the last 9 minutes of the game together. On to a tough game at GB. If we come away with a win there, you never know what can happen, but we control our destiny in regards to the 2 seed, at a minimum.
At the postgame on the radio, coach Gore said something about Chadwick not practicing. Unfortunately I was distracted so didn't hear details, but maybe that's why he didn't play.
So Coleman equals the 3 bigs rebound total of 11 in about 2/3 of their total playing time. Hmmmm! Did I just watch us employ a losing strategy to achieve a decisive victory? What kind of rabbit will Bryce try to pull out of his hat in Green Bay? For better and for worse this 10 deep team is just so much fun to watch!
Quote from: classof2014 on February 15, 2014, 09:44:11 PM
This win puts us in great spot to at least get a 1st round bye, and if we win out, a double bye. Big win, and our first quality road win. Hopefully we can build on this one and head up I-43 to Cheeseville and steal a win and put is in contention for first.
Not likely...Green Bay would have to lose to Detroit or Oakland while we have to beat GB/CSU/WSU.
Quote from: ARCInsider on February 15, 2014, 11:47:26 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on February 15, 2014, 09:44:11 PM
This win puts us in great spot to at least get a 1st round bye, and if we win out, a double bye. Big win, and our first quality road win. Hopefully we can build on this one and head up I-43 to Cheeseville and steal a win and put is in contention for first.
Not likely...Green Bay would have to lose to Detroit or Oakland while we have to beat GB/CSU/WSU.
Hence the word "hopefully".
After the last game against Oakland I wrote in the forum that "Coleman and Carter now seem to be the players who need a return to confidence, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them contribute more during the upcoming games." I was pleased to see the two step up against Milwaukee: Carter with 8 points and only 1 turnover in 16 minutes, and Coleman with 14 points and 11 rebounds in 25 minutes with only 1 turnover.
In addition, following the game tonight Coach Jeter said it was hard to believe the three starters for Valpo—Peters, Adekoya, and Williams—are freshmen. Once again, with a core of this freshman class, the future looks bright.
Finally, I have to say that some of the calls against our big guys were phantom fouls. In fact, it's not like Milwaukee was driving inside to initiate lots of fouls, since they took 29 3-pt. shots.
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2014, 12:10:50 AM
Finally, I have to say that some of the calls against our big guys were phantom fouls. In fact, it's not like Milwaukee was driving inside to initiate lots of fouls, since they took 29 3-pt. shots.
What kills our big men is offensive fouls. Seems like Moussa, Bobby, and Vashil average 2-3 offensive fouls a game, which makes it much harder to play defense when you're limiting yourself to 2-3 defensive fouls. Thus they tend to pick up a lot of fouls and in bunches.
There were some strange calls on one side that were called differently on the other side. (depended on which ref ended up under the basket) There was a total Phantom foul on Vashil where they showed it in a replay and Vashil was not even in the play.
We do have a tendency to lean in on a screen (or players need to use the screen better so the screener does not feel they need to lean.) however, it is not much more noticable than other teams.
I find it amusing that people still bash on Drew's coaching decisions. The big guys weren't doing much besides blocking shots last night, plus even without those three we still could match the size of Milwaukee. Plus, Milwaukee was content to brick 3s all night so not having the big bodies in there wasn't going to hurt.
It would be nice to see them set legal screens though.
Quote from: classof2014 on February 16, 2014, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2014, 12:10:50 AM
Finally, I have to say that some of the calls against our big guys were phantom fouls. In fact, it's not like Milwaukee was driving inside to initiate lots of fouls, since they took 29 3-pt. shots.
What kills our big men is offensive fouls. Seems like Moussa, Bobby, and Vashil average 2-3 offensive fouls a game, which makes it much harder to play defense when you're limiting yourself to 2-3 defensive fouls. Thus they tend to pick up a lot of fouls and in bunches.
I was thinking the same thing. Usually the offensive fouls they pick up are setting picks. I blame them half the time and the other half its the dribbler not waiting until they are set.
As of late, I noticed several times Vashil is starting to put his hands outs instead of up. He had a game a couple weeks ago where he blocked 5-6 shorts and he was going to straight up.
The funny thing was the lineup we had out there the last 10 or so minutes was the same size, actually a tad bigger than last season's regulars.
Alec 6' 8" 225
Jubril 6' 7" 225
Jordan 6' 5" 190
LVD 6' 1" 200
Lexus 5' 11" 155
-vs-
KVW 6' 8" 240
Rowdy 6' 7" 215
Matt 6' 4" 205
Will 6'1 175
Erik 5' 11" 160
Other than Jordan being 1" taller than Matt, the teams are absolutely identical in size. It's just rare to have 3 guys 6' 10"+ and we've gotten used to it. I really liked watching the smaller lineup last night. The didn't turn the ball over and were much quicker and flowed much better out there.
Quote from: rink on February 15, 2014, 04:31:19 PM
Wife and I will be in attendance. Been treated to some great Valpo-UWM games here recently, looking forward to more of the same.
Quote from: Smj on February 14, 2014, 10:38:11 PM
I like UWM games on campus better
In theory, yes, but it's tough to argue with the immensely better options for food/drink before and after the game that you get out of the US Cellular location. We'll probably hit Hofbräuhaus for pregame drinks, then maybe Major Goolsby's for post-game. Going to a game at Klotsche doesn't offer nearly as good of a total entertainment package.
We arrived in enough time to eat dinner (so we thought), but it wasn't easy to find a place without a long wait. We finally ended up at a Thai restaurant called The King and I. Thai food was about the last thing we had in mind, but the food, service and atmosphere were all wonderful. We will definitely go there again next year.
Quote from: Smj on February 16, 2014, 07:32:06 AM
There were some strange calls on one side that were called differently on the other side. (depended on which ref ended up under the basket) There was a total Phantom foul on Vashil where they showed it in a replay and Vashil was not even in the play.
We do have a tendency to lean in on a screen (or players need to use the screen better so the screener does not feel they need to lean.) however, it is not much more noticable than other teams.
Bobby's 4th foul was just him moving back up the court and avoiding a UWM player -- pure phantom. Prior to that he was sent flying by major contact from behind and went to the floor in front of the official and no call. Then he got his 5th, and from where I was sitting, that also looked phantomesque.
MBB: Highlights vs Valparaiso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzCzmHI5QYA#ws)
Watch at the 1:36 mark of this video. Not sure if this was a foul on Vashil or not. He had his hand slightly on his back but seems ticky tack. Also, nice block by Alec!
Quote from: classof2014 on February 16, 2014, 09:47:34 AMThe funny thing was the lineup we had out there the last 10 or so minutes was the same size, actually a tad bigger than last season's regulars.
great observation
i still want a 5 for next year :)
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 16, 2014, 08:19:41 AM
Quote from: classof2014 on February 16, 2014, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2014, 12:10:50 AM
Finally, I have to say that some of the calls against our big guys were phantom fouls. In fact, it's not like Milwaukee was driving inside to initiate lots of fouls, since they took 29 3-pt. shots.
What kills our big men is offensive fouls. Seems like Moussa, Bobby, and Vashil average 2-3 offensive fouls a game, which makes it much harder to play defense when you're limiting yourself to 2-3 defensive fouls. Thus they tend to pick up a lot of fouls and in bunches.
I was thinking the same thing. Usually the offensive fouls they pick up are setting picks. I blame them half the time and the other half its the dribbler not waiting until they are set.
As of late, I noticed several times Vashil is starting to put his hands outs instead of up. He had a game a couple weeks ago where he blocked 5-6 shorts and he was going to straight up.
I have noticed the same thing about Vashil, so much so that I instinctively put my hands straight up anytime the guy being guarded by Vashil has the ball lol :)
BTW from the way all of you talked, I expected our Valpo crowd to be a significant presence at the Cell. While we got loud on occasion, not so much.
Well, there were 5,815 bodies in seats there according to the box score, and, given the capacity of the place, I would pretty much agree with that when I looked around and tried to get a sense of the numbers. They weren't really into the game though compared to our VU contingent, I'll say that. But not bad numbers. Was it because it was Valpo?
Our other first-timer observations:
# -- Generally, the vast majority of Valpo roadies are definitely on the long side of 55 (as am I but I like to think I look a bit younger :crazy: )
# -- The student section was maybe 30 kids. They held their own but 100 would have been better. My partner (she has no allegiance at all and came to keep me company) asked why there weren't more VU students at the game. Are the student buses free and do those bus seats each come with a free ticket to the game? I don't know those things, but she's got a point -- shouldn't we travel better at least to "local" games? It seemed like the players really appreciated our presence at the end of the game and a larger student representation would have added to it even more. :twocents:
We had like 30 students for our last home game, not many are going to board a bus for 4 hours or however long it is when they don't even walk the couple of blocks to get to the ARc.
Quote from: HC on February 16, 2014, 09:19:52 PM
We had like 30 students for our last home game, not many are going to board a bus for 4 hours or however long it is when they don't even walk the couple of blocks to get to the ARc.
:(
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 16, 2014, 12:47:21 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on February 16, 2014, 09:47:34 AMThe funny thing was the lineup we had out there the last 10 or so minutes was the same size, actually a tad bigger than last season's regulars.
great observation
i still want a 5 for next year :)
Yes, one that can catch a pass and hold on to a rebound.
Quote from: valpospartan on February 16, 2014, 11:27:35 PMYes, one that can catch a pass and hold on to a rebound.
the phrase "one and done" was invented for such as these