Thought I'd start this one. If we are hoping to schedule better teams, we certainly could be helped by our own conference scheduling stronger competition and winning some of those game.
I took a look at the rosters of the Horizon League teams and found the following teams and their senior losses:
Green Bay
Greg Mays
Keifer Sykes
Alfonso McKennie
Cleveland State
Charlie Lee
Marlon Mason
Oakland
Dante Williams
Corey Petros
Wright State
Reggie Arceneaux
Chrichawn Hopkins
Kendall Griffin
Detroit
Juwan Howard Jr.
Brandan Kearney
Milwaukee
Steve McWhorter
UIC
Jay Harris
Marc Brown
Ahman Fells
YSU
Shawn Amiker
DJ Cole
Keene
Vaughn
Valpo
Vashil
I obviously only included players who made a significant impact this last year. Would love to hear from fans from other teams as to who they think will have a significant impact either from new freshman or transfers. At the moment I don't see anyone other than Valpo who won't be hit hard by departures. I think overall that the Horizon will be a weaker conference next year.
Thoughts?
It was a pretty horrible year for the HL this year - I hope it can't get any worse!
Oakland will be vastly improved... two folks with Walker in their names... just to annoy Chef in the game-calling... I see Valpo #1, Oakland #2 and probably CSU with #3 Trey Lewis at #3 .... Youngstown somewhere between #14 and #15...
You are wrong. Conference as a whole will be much stronger next year, IF the coaches dont screw it up.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 25, 2015, 08:31:26 PM
You are wrong. Conference as a whole will be much stronger next year, IF the coaches dont screw it up.
Strong statement. And your reasons are?? ???
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 25, 2015, 08:31:26 PMIF the coaches dont screw it up
obligatory. saw this live...even more amazing in the moment.
John L. Smith's meltdown against Ohio State in 2005 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvrRvUYRdD8#)
take that mark turgeon that's how you do a halftime blurb
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 25, 2015, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 25, 2015, 08:31:26 PMIF the coaches dont screw it up
obligatory. saw this live...even more amazing in the moment.
John L. Smith's meltdown against Ohio State in 2005 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvrRvUYRdD8#)
take that mark turgeon that's how you do a halftime blurb
Hey, LPAP, you seem to have quite a fascination with Michigan State coaches, as you keep posting about them.
I must admit, though, that I think that John L. Smith was a real knob.
I just like to remember the good old days, when Little Brother knew his place, ok?
back on topic boys... >:(
How good the league is all depends on the RPI each team can bring in to the start of the conference season.
1. Valpo - Potential RPI in the 20-40 range if they schedule appropriately
2. Oakland - Excellent transfers, talented youth, good recruits - Potentially could be just as good or better than Valpo next year. The question is, do they schedule appropriately and bring in an RPI in the 50-70 range, or schedule poorly and bring in an RPI in the 180-220 range.
3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters. They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into confernece.
4. Detroit - Losing JHJR will be a blessing for that team. He took a bunch of bad shots. If Ray McCallum can use this opportunity to teach his team how to run a real offense, they have all the tools they need to be a surprise team in the league, just like we were this year. I watched six games of theirs and that team does have real talent returning. With just an average coaching job, they could have an RPI in the 120's range to start the season.
5. Milwaukee - They get their 3 point ace back and have Tiby. Jordan imporved a lot this year and Akem? has tremendous athleticism. They have some good size. They will be a lot better than you think, especially since they will be tournament eligible again this year. Extra motivation. With proper scheduling, I think they have enough talent to have an RPI in the 150-170 range.
6. Green Bay - They lose a lot, but they have some really talented freshman coming in. Fouse and Love are both really good. Obviously they are going to take a step back, but I would be shocked if their RPI is any lower than 170 coming into the conference season.
7. Wright State - Injuries ruined their season. Their youth received a lot of PT. That will help them next year. I saw a lot of potential in their freshman and sophomore classes. Plus, they had some height red shirting, which was their big issue this year aside from injuries. I bet they can get an RPI in the 190's.
8. UIC - Will be really bad
9. YSU - Will be really bad
As long as UIC and YSU are not historically bad, the league should be much better next year. They top 7 teams all SHOULD come into the season with a top 200 RPI. Only 4 schools did that last year.
YSU will be historically bad. Keene and Vaughn are leaving, two guys that saw the court regularly and Hain took a step backwards last season. YSU will be in the 300s.
They aren't just bad. They'll be historically bad.
And Jerry Slocum will still be Youngstown St.'s coach because basketball isn't their sport.
The Conference should be better next year. Assuming CSU doesn't lose Anton Grady and Trey Lewis (both of whom could transfer to a high major and be eligible immediately) 4 of 5 first team all-conference players return, and arguably all 4 were better than the guy who won conference POY. 6 of the top 10 scorers, 7 of the top 10 rebounders (including 5 of the top 6), 5 of the top 10 in assists, 6 of the top 10 in steals and blocks, return. If the league named a second team all-frosh, it would have been as good as you would have seen in several years, with players like Skara, Detroit's Jaleel Hogan, Milwaukee's Justin Jordan, UIC's Tai Odiase, YSU's Cameron Morse, maybe your guy Joseph.
It's also been a good recruiting year for many teams. You guys got Smits, a huge get for you and the the league. In most years he'd be rated the best recruit in the conference, easily, but he may not be the best recruit signed in the Horizon this year - Detroit signee Josh McFolley was ranked in the top 100 nationally by Lindy's and is generally considered the best senior point guard in the state of Michigan. Oakland also got a really good center, Brad Brechting, though he probably won't have a big impact as a frosh. Green Bay and Cleveland State had good recruiting years - CSU signed a forward named Jeron Rogers who is really good and had high major offers. In many years *he* would be the best signee in the league. The league will also see an influx of talent that sat out this year -- red-shirted freshmen (Wright State has a couple redshirted big guys who might come through; Detroit will see Aaron Foster-Smith, a first team all-state forward in Michigan a year ago who many compare to Nick Minnerath, become eligible; there are a lot of other good redshirt frosh, such as CSU's Jon Janssen, "coming on line" next year), transfers (especially Oakland, which has Percy Gibson, a rotation player from Iowa State to plug in for Corey Petros; plus Sherron Dorsey-Walker also from Iowa State, who can give Felder some relief at the point as well play the #2; and Martez Walker, a first-team all-stater in Michigan who was a rotation player as a freshman at Texas, but left after an ugly incident of girl friend abuse; and also guys like your Hammink), and injuries (mainly your guy Williams, also Austin Arians from Milwaukee). Obviously transfers out could hurt -- YSU, as noted in this thread, has already gone from so-so to so, so bad with the loss of two of its three best returning playing - but overall, the new talent looks strong, and we still have spring signings to come.
I think the league overall improves, quite possibly by a lot.
Congratulations on your season, btw. I believe I wrote somewhere back in October that if the other Horizon teams didn't stop Valpo this year, it was going to be awfully hard to stop you guys the next couple seasons. I think you can have legit hopes for an at-large berth (if needed) and even a possible top 25 ranking next year, if your kids play to their full potential. Personally, as a Detroit fan, I see Valpo as a bigger rival than Oakland, although we need to get competitive again fast to really stoke this rivalry. But delaying your clinching the league title was at least something for Titan fans to enjoy in a disappointing year.
And I appreciate WH sharing my conference previews and such over here.
Excellent preview - very informative - much appreciated!
Quote from: Commissioner on March 29, 2015, 11:23:00 PMIf the league named a second team all-frosh, it would have been as good as you would have seen in several years, with players like Skara, Detroit's Jaleel Hogan, Milwaukee's Justin Jordan, UIC's Tai Odiase, YSU's Cameron Morse, maybe your guy Joseph.
Speaking of freshman, I know you caught a lot of flak about Walker and Joseph
QuoteFinally, what's with all the stuff on the Canadians? I write like 40,000 words or something on your team, and that's what you all seem focused on?
Some of us knew that Tevonn was thought of very highly by the staff, but most I think were surprised by his impact on the team. Any additional thoughts on him and some of the other top freshman in the league?
- I think we have to wait until the semesters end to find out about all the transfers.
- Sanity, I think we need to see schedules before even guessing on RPI
- You might have thought JH2 took alot of bad shots, but he still hit at a 43% rate and 40% from 3 pt. The problem was the mis-utilization from coaching.
- In order for the league to truly improve, we need to have our top schools (at least two-three) actually post some good upsets in Nov/Dec
As it is now, CSU will drop without Lewis, even lower if Grady leaves too.
I think Milw and WSU (without injuries) will finish higher than Dtroit. Can't argue with Valpo/Oakland at 1-2 now.
Guess we'll have to play on this monstrosity:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCALO-1XIAA-aor.jpg)
Trying to differentiate themselves in recruiting
What and where is this court???
Quote from: valpo64 on April 07, 2015, 03:37:46 PM
What and where is this court???
That is the O'rena at Oakland
Shrug. It's a regulation floor, isn't it?
Monstrosity???? ::)
I must be out of touch when it comes to aesthetics these days. Sunday night my whole twitter timeline was blowing up over ESPN's new K-Zone graphic that I barely noticed like it was completely distracting them from the game. Half the teams in College basketball apparently wear utter abominations for uniforms, provoking a violent revolution of some sort.
Is this what it's like to become an old fart?
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 07, 2015, 06:10:14 PMI must be out of touch when it comes to aesthetics these days.
Yes, you are.
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 07, 2015, 06:10:14 PMIs this what it's like to become an old fart?
Yes, it is.
Take it from another old fart.
I watched a video today of Valpo history through the years and remembered being at many of the events that were over 35 to 40 years old.
Now with his black court maybe the "king" will be invisible in his black garb while patrolling the sidelines.
OK. Educate me.
What in the world is so bad about their new floor?
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 09, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
OK. Educate me.
What in the world is so bad about their new floor?
Someone might trip over that floor broom. ;)
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 09, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
OK. Educate me.
What in the world is so bad about their new floor?
Hmm... I wonder?
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 26, 2015, 10:32:10 AM3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters. They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into conference.
Word this morning has it that Anton Grady has received his release, and Lewis is already gone. These losses should take CSU out of the top tier next year.
Quote from: valpopal on April 22, 2015, 08:25:40 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 26, 2015, 10:32:10 AM3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters. They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into conference.
Word this morning has it that Anton Grady has received his release, and Lewis is already gone. These losses should take CSU out of the top tier next year.
No doubt. They lost their other star(Lee) to graduation so their top 3 from last year are all gone. Something must be going on there. Just too many kids not sticking around. It may be due to all the redshirts. Obviously, if you sit a year then logically you can graduate and still have a year of eligibility left. Waters must be crushed.
It's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools.
Center recruit Julian Torres (6'9" 240 lb.) who de-committed from Green Bay after Wardle left has now committed to UIC.
Green Bay also lost Antwon Pittman, from Rockford, IL, after Wardle left. Have not heard where he'll end up, but he opened up his recruitment again.
From the Peoria Journal Star:
PEORIA – Bradley men's basketball received a fourth commitment to coach Brian Wardle's new regime Friday when 6-foot-3 shooting guard Antoine Pittman gave his verbal commitment to attend Bradley.
Pittman, a senior at Rockford Auburn High School who led his team to a 29-2 season, signed with Wardle's Green Bay program in the fall and then decommitted upon Wardle's move to BU.
Since he already signed his one allowed National Letter of Intent, Pittman's process for admission will take a bit longer. Wardle isn't allowed to comment on Pittman and point guard Joel Okafor, another Green Bay recruit who committed to BU earlier this week, until they are officially enrolled.
Quote from: valpopal on April 22, 2015, 08:25:40 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 26, 2015, 10:32:10 AM3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters. They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into conference.
Word this morning has it that Anton Grady has received his release, and Lewis is already gone. These losses should take CSU out of the top tier next year.
Argh! I even checked this thread before posting the news elsewhere. Not carefully enough, obviously...
I think this Milw poster makes a good point about mid major conferences working together for scheduling and RPI building:
BBFran
Clay Tucker Fan Club
Apr 28, 2015 at 5:44pm
Quote
Good info JG; I was just thinking about it from a Men's BB standpoint.
To dylan's point, that's why I think it's vital for mid-major leagues to work together. Imagine if the MAC, Horizon, Big West, Colonial Athletic, West Coast and Metro Atlantic leagues would do this. With the exception of a tiny handful of schools in those conferences (and they are all named Gonzaga) every member of those leagues has the same problem. So why not play each other more often and leave the low majors to play their buy games against the big boys. There will still be opportunities (mostly in pre-season tournaments, and through affinity connections like UW/UWM) to play some high majors. But to think the world is going to shift on its axis suddenly and the power conference teams are going to start doing straight 1 to 1 home and homes with mids? I wish it were otherwise but that's simply not going to happen in an age when every power conference school is desperate for home game ticket revenue because of what they have to pay their coaches, and fearful that a loss to a non-power school will threaten their tournament chances or seeding.
My understanding is that next year The Big Ten is doing a challenge with the Big East, in addition to their challenge with the ACC. Obviously this adds quality games and strength of schedule. The Horizon needs to be in at least one such challenge for the same reasons.
I wrote a little diddy on PantherU that is very similar to what has been said here and in Fran's post on the UWMFreak board:
http://pantheru.com/2015/05/horizon-league-should-seek-all-challengers/ (http://pantheru.com/2015/05/horizon-league-should-seek-all-challengers/)
As far as how the league shakes out next year, I will say that in this league there are NO sure things. The closest thing to a sure thing is Valpo, and Oakland not too far after that. I know what we have coming in and what we have coming back, but as usual I try not to play it up too much. So I won't say things like I think we're going to own the Horizon League much because I know I'll get laughed out of the conversation. We also have a couple pieces to add (one won't play next season but walk-on and then get a scholarship after his transfer) so we're not set.
But things happen anyway. Valpo looks strong, but what kind of team will be on the court if they don't have one of the Walkers and Peters? That's the season Wright State faced last year. I don't care if you're Kentucky - take away a team's best player or 2nd best player and you have a completely different team. When we lost Arians for the year (he recovered from the injury and could have played beginning of December but he decided to redshirt), there was a big learning curve we had to deal with. Akeem Springs broke his hand during the Auburn game and was playing hurt through mid-January. See how mediocre we were because of it? Yet once Springs got back and we figured out how to play without Arians, we won 7 of our last 9. We almost beat you guys in the second game, and would have won 8 of 9. We'll be just fine. The point is that injuries happen, so predicting the order of finish is foolhardy.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on May 04, 2015, 02:58:49 PM
I wrote a little diddy on PantherU that is very similar to what has been said here and in Fran's post on the UWMFreak board:
http://pantheru.com/2015/05/horizon-league-should-seek-all-challengers/ (http://pantheru.com/2015/05/horizon-league-should-seek-all-challengers/)
As far as how the league shakes out next year, I will say that in this league there are NO sure things. The closest thing to a sure thing is Valpo, and Oakland not too far after that. I know what we have coming in and what we have coming back, but as usual I try not to play it up too much. So I won't say things like I think we're going to own the Horizon League much because I know I'll get laughed out of the conversation. We also have a couple pieces to add (one won't play next season but walk-on and then get a scholarship after his transfer) so we're not set.
But things happen anyway. Valpo looks strong, but what kind of team will be on the court if they don't have one of the Walkers and Peters? That's the season Wright State faced last year. I don't care if you're Kentucky - take away a team's best player or 2nd best player and you have a completely different team. When we lost Arians for the year (he recovered from the injury and could have played beginning of December but he decided to redshirt), there was a big learning curve we had to deal with. Akeem Springs broke his hand during the Auburn game and was playing hurt through mid-January. See how mediocre we were because of it? Yet once Springs got back and we figured out how to play without Arians, we won 7 of our last 9. We almost beat you guys in the second game, and would have won 8 of 9. We'll be just fine. The point is that injuries happen, so predicting the order of finish is foolhardy.
All valid points. We have had some experience playing without key players. Last year we had our starting point guard miss the entire season and our backup point guard miss 14 games with an injury. We played the title game with both Walkers either out or hurting. Obviously Alec is a different story. If he goes down things are different but still, in the title game, by his own admission, he "couldn't throw it in the ocean". Somehow we still won. We will be adding some key guys next year as will most teams. Hopefully your team can win some OC games.
I've mentally gathered cows from every county which I'll now herd before you under this general topic.
First off it will be great to get back to Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday conference weekend road trips and long home week ends. A 10'th team just makes scheduling and travel so much easier! Having UIC for a travel partner instead of Butler-- well thats another story. I watched the Steve McClain introduction and speech and just maybe he is the type of coach who can get that program turned around. UIC should win a couple extra HL games next season just by virtue of being our partner. VU on the other hand might drop a couple extra by virtue of everyone focusing on us. :'(
An unmentioned benefit to NKUs HL acceptance is that we now need to find 2 fewer OOC opponents. I am almost afraid to bring this subject up but we are getting into late May with only one scheduled OOC game and that with Indiana St. Somebody correct me if Ball St or IPFW or any other unfinished or renewed contracts exist? Any rumors or thoughts? I am afraid that we are just too good in todays world of basketball to easily find the kind of of opponents the we want.
Would still love to make the trip to ND for a game. They lost only 2 senior players (not sure about transfers or injuries) and we lost only one. In the old days they would have jumped at such an opportunity. A trip to Purdue would also be nice. Yes I realize that the state of todays game has turned many otherwise honorable coaches into silent cowards but?
If with 10 teams a conference challenge can't be done then we should be prepared to quickly drop the concept and move on.
Quote from: justducky on May 22, 2015, 01:16:11 AMAny rumors or thoughts?
Hmm, I'm sure there are many. Rumor: The OOC home schedule will not include 3 teams that are less than Division I.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 23, 2015, 10:47:07 AMIt's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools.
It might be, but don't count out Milwaukee and Detroit. As a matter of fact, while others keep complaining about the League, this will be another competitive season. Heck, UIC might surprise this season!
Quote from: Chuck A on May 24, 2015, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 23, 2015, 10:47:07 AMIt's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools.
It might be, but don't count out Milwaukee and Detroit. As a matter of fact, while others keep complaining about the League, this will be another competitive season. Heck, UIC might surprise this season!
We just want to see more than one other school with a winning record.
Oakland has announced their non-conference schedule. I think it looks like a good mix this year: http://www.goldengrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/060815aab.html (http://www.goldengrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/060815aab.html)
I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.
Hope we do the same. to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past. If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 08, 2015, 05:15:57 PM
I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.
w Binghamton --
6-26, 5-11 America East
w Chicago State --
8-24, 4-10 WAC
w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)
w
Non-D1We'd complain if we had these teams at home.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 08, 2015, 05:49:43 PM
Hope we do the same. to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past. If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.
The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.
Quote from: valpospartan on June 08, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 08, 2015, 05:15:57 PM
I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.
w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East
w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC
w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)
w Non-D1
We'd complain if we had these teams at home.
You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:
Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.
Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 09, 2015, 04:14:47 PMMid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.
I'm not the least bit connected in the way you describe, and *I* can figure this much out.
There might be room for improvement, but if anyone is forming a posse to descend on our Men's basketball program and demand better scheduling at gunpoint, you can count me out. It's not a fair fight, and I think that's about more even than just getting the high majors to play us. For whatever reason, getting quality mid-majors to play each other on a regular basis is hardly child's play (it's easi-er, I get that, but it's still not easy). We all worship the big boys and desperately want to be liked by them, no matter what it takes, even to the point of shunning each other and pretending we are like them by turning the tables with those who would be considered cup-cakes to us.. If the fabled Mid-Majority ever started boycotting guarantee games with the big schools en masse in favor of playing each other, I'd faint from shock.
The most extreme reaction I can muster to weak non-conference scheduling in the HL is disappointment and sadness.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 09, 2015, 04:14:47 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 08, 2015, 05:49:43 PM
Hope we do the same. to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past. If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.
The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.
Quote from: valpospartan on June 08, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 08, 2015, 05:15:57 PM
I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.
w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East
w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC
w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)
w Non-D1
We'd complain if we had these teams at home.
You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:
Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.
Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.
Spot on, can't blame any mid major team for not having decent home opponents. If you look around the league, some schools only have 1 or 2 DI opponents at home. I think Valpo has done a good job of getting better schools at home - Murray State, Purdue, Marquette, New Mexico, and SLU have all come
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 09, 2015, 04:14:47 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 08, 2015, 05:49:43 PM
Hope we do the same. to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past. If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.
The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.
Quote from: valpospartan on June 08, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 08, 2015, 05:15:57 PM
I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.
w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East
w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC
w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)
w Non-D1
We'd complain if we had these teams at home.
You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:
Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.
Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.
Spot on, can't blame any mid major team for not having decent home opponents. If you look around the league, some schools only have 2 or 3 DI opponents at home each year. Power conference schools in contention will only play 1-2 road games, and only against top teams. I think Valpo has done an average job of getting better schools at home - Murray State, Purdue, Marquette, New Mexico, and SLU have all come recently.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 09, 2015, 04:14:47 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 08, 2015, 05:49:43 PM
Hope we do the same. to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past. If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.
The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.
Quote from: valpospartan on June 08, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 08, 2015, 05:15:57 PM
I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.
w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East
w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC
w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)
w Non-D1
We'd complain if we had these teams at home.
You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:
Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.
Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.
Maine, Arkansas Pine Bluff, and Bethune Cookman were tournament games at neutral courts. We were designated the home team, but they weren't true home games. The LMU game was a return matchup from Bracketbusters. Also, if you look at the rosters we had during those seasons, we were coming into each season with huge questions left unanswered from the year before. I get that most of you dislike us playing non D-1 schools during the season, but either we draw the short end of the stick in a tournament, or we schedule these games as "breathers" after a stretch of tough opponents so our starters can get some rest, and the bench can get some quality minutes/action, even if some of the players on the bench shouldn't be playing D-I basketball. I know it sucks watching Valpo destroy a non D-I opponent, but some of those games are also meant to prepare us for trap games or give us an idea of what a Max Joseph or Clay Yeo could do at the D-I level, not just make it so Alec scores 20 points in 15 minutes, and sits most of the game because we're leading by 45 at halftime.
You had Marquette at the ARC? When was that?
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 13, 2015, 03:50:25 PM
You had Marquette at the ARC? When was that?
2005-2006. Lost 65-62. We played at their place the year before, losing 64-59. Our history with them goes back to 1952. Our record is 5-21 with our last win coming in 1988.
On a bull crap Dominic James long 3, no less...
Quote from: vu72 on June 13, 2015, 04:09:52 PM
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 13, 2015, 03:50:25 PM
You had Marquette at the ARC? When was that?
2005-2006. Lost 65-62. We played at their place the year before, losing 64-59. Our history with them goes back to 1952. Our record is 5-21 with our last win coming in 1988.
2006-2007, actually. We played Butler later that week and Jon LeCrone was there to welcome Valpo into the Horizon League.
Detroit releases its non-conference schedule: http://www.detroittitans.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&schedule=145 (http://www.detroittitans.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&schedule=145)
Quote from: valpopal on July 02, 2015, 05:38:47 PM
Detroit releases its non-conference schedule: http://www.detroittitans.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&schedule=145 (http://www.detroittitans.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&schedule=145)
Glad I did a double take on that home game vs team with Michigan logo.
That's a very nice non-conference schedule. Hopefully they can win the majority. If we put together something like this I'll be pleased.
Quote from: vu72 on July 02, 2015, 06:20:29 PMThat's a very nice non-conference schedule. Hopefully they can win the majority. If we put together something like this I'll be pleased.
This is a very good schedule for Detroit or any of the other middle of the pack HL teams, but not for us. With the talent and experience we are returning the greatest danger is under challenging their limits rather than over challenging them. Last season it was alright to schedule towards building confidence. This year the stage needs to be set for the team to show what it can do. If we lose enough that it removes us from at-large consideration then so be it.
OK. I will concede that we may not be able to do better because nobody wants to play us but we need to shoot higher.
Quote from: justducky on July 03, 2015, 11:31:57 AM
Quote from: vu72 on July 02, 2015, 06:20:29 PMThat's a very nice non-conference schedule. Hopefully they can win the majority. If we put together something like this I'll be pleased.
This is a very good schedule for Detroit or any of the other middle of the pack HL teams, but not for us. With the talent and experience we are returning the greatest danger is under challenging their limits rather than over challenging them. Last season it was alright to schedule towards building confidence. This year the stage needs to be set for the team to show what it can do. If we lose enough that it removes us from at-large consideration then so be it.
OK. I will concede that we may not be able to do better because nobody wants to play us but we need to shoot higher.
I understand your point but also agree that it will be very tough to get a better schedule then what Detroit has found. Let me take a closer look at their schedule:
1. Three major conference teams.
2. Only one team (UCF) with less then 19 wins last year.(out of 9 games)
3. six teams with 20 or more wins.
4. One mid-major conference champion (Northeastern)
Pretty solid. Not sure what their combined average RPI was but doubt we will be able to find a better schedule.
The attendance numbers and rankings of the 2014-2015 season for all teams and conferences have been released. At 2,854, the Horizon League was 14th in average attendance, down slightly from the year before. Valparaiso's average was 3,066. The overall conference tournament attendance was low at 14,019 for the 5 sessions, for an average of 2,804. It will be interesting to see what the attendance numbers will be for the conference in 2015-2016 with the addition of Northern Kentucky, whose average last year for all home games as an independent was 2,016 but should rise as a member of the conference. I will also be curious to see if the high expectations for Valpo will help attendance. I doubt the move to Detroit will increase those tournament numbers significantly (unless Detroit and Oakland are in the final game or discount tickets are given to local groups in the city of Detroit), which could lead to a mostly empty arena on national television.
Stats for all teams can be found at the following: http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2015/07/07/2014-15_mbb_attendance.pdf (http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2015/07/07/2014-15_mbb_attendance.pdf)
Quote from: valpopal on July 12, 2015, 10:29:39 AMwhose average last year for all home games as an independent was 2,016
Northern Kentucky was in the Atlantic Sun last season and not an independent.
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2015/5/11/8585081/atlantic-sun-left-scrambling-after-northern-kentuckys-departure (http://www.midmajormadness.com/2015/5/11/8585081/atlantic-sun-left-scrambling-after-northern-kentuckys-departure)
Quote from: bbtds on July 12, 2015, 01:19:18 PM
Quote from: valpopal on July 12, 2015, 10:29:39 AMwhose average last year for all home games as an independent was 2,016
Northern Kentucky was in the Atlantic Sun last season and not an independent.
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2015/5/11/8585081/atlantic-sun-left-scrambling-after-northern-kentuckys-departure (http://www.midmajormadness.com/2015/5/11/8585081/atlantic-sun-left-scrambling-after-northern-kentuckys-departure)
Good catch: Thanks! I still think the home attendance will rise this season for Northern Kentucky. It will be interesting to see how much.
A rough estimate shows that the total MAC schools double the HL in enrollment (288k to 144k). However, they only average 31 more fans than we do. That is pretty bad for them. I would also be willing to bet that they have a greater percentage of dorm students than we do as well.
It will be interesting to see how our conference attendance numbers change with the move to JLA, and then the new Red Wing building. At least with the numbers established for 2015 (14,019 over 5 sessions, 2804 ave), we will know pretty quickly how fast this thing swims or sinks.
I have said unequivocally that I think the move to Detroit will prove to be the biggest blunder the HL has ever made (yes, even bigger than inviting YSU to join the league).
IMO comparing 5-game attendance averages is essentially meaningless in assessing the success or failure of moving to a neutral site. For example let's assume that the 4 teams in the semi finals are Detroit vs CSU and Oakland vs. YSU. Attendance could be pretty good that night with 2 local teams involved, which helps inflate the 5-game avg. But what happens if CSU and YSU win and play for the championship? How is it going to look to have the HL championship game played on national TV in front of 700 fans? At that point is anyone going to care what the 5-game avg. is?
As I see it this is the biggest of several problems with this move. Unless Detroit and Oakland are involved in the championship game the draw will be nowhere near what it has been where the local team is always guaranteed to host the championship game.
Bottom line - championship game attendance and atmosphere on national TV is what it's all about.
After 3 years of fans all over the H.L. telling Oakland fans how counter productive and damaging their OOC schedules are to themselves and the rest of the league, and 3 years of Oakland fans defending the indefinisible, their A.D. finally says something sensible:
Konya wants more home basketball games, and less of Kampe taking his team on the road to get beaten for big pay days against the "Power 5" conferences.
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/sports/20150805/pat-caputo-ad-jeff-konya-has-clear-vision-of-oakland-university-athletic-future (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/sports/20150805/pat-caputo-ad-jeff-konya-has-clear-vision-of-oakland-university-athletic-future)
From the tone of his comments, he seems like a no-nonsense guy. That personality, along with any increased state funding, could mean a marked improvement in all of their programs, but mainly MBB. And that's coming off of a McCafferty Trophy after only 2 years in the HL.