Since nobody else started it... and we're 23 hours from tip...
just some personal thoughts....
Valpo by 20
OU = 135
Valpo 77 - UIC 57
I don't recall the year but I remember when we started HL season 0-1 with a home loss to UIC. We went on to win the season.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 01, 2016, 01:41:36 PM
I don't recall the year but I remember when we started HL season 0-1 with a home loss to UIC. We went on to win the season.
You're thinking of Loyola, in 2013.
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 01, 2016, 01:57:53 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 01, 2016, 01:41:36 PM
I don't recall the year but I remember when we started HL season 0-1 with a home loss to UIC. We went on to win the season.
You're thinking of Loyola, in 2013.
Loyola had a respectable team that year. Better than UIC this year.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on January 01, 2016, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 01, 2016, 01:57:53 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 01, 2016, 01:41:36 PM
I don't recall the year but I remember when we started HL season 0-1 with a home loss to UIC. We went on to win the season.
You're thinking of Loyola, in 2013.
Loyola had a respectable team that year. Better than UIC this year.
Agreed. But we never lost to UIC at the beginning of conference play.
Valpo by 17. Let's go with 78-61. I'm excited my team doesn't play so I can finally go to the game tomorrow afternoon.
Valpo favored by 26.5 lol
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Quote from: a3uge on January 01, 2016, 03:28:18 PM
Valpo favored by 26.5 lol
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Oh my word. Take the points!
Being that this a home game against one of the weakest teams in Div 1, nothing would surprise me. We should see big bench minutes, some strange combinations, and perhaps some new wrinkles.
Alec Peters will be held to single digits! At least that is what I expect Bryce to do.
Quote from: justducky on January 01, 2016, 05:19:25 PM
Being that this a home game against one of the weakest teams in Div 1, nothing would surprise me. We should see big bench minutes, some strange combinations, and perhaps some new wrinkles.
Alec Peters will be held to single digits! At least that is what I expect Bryce to do.
Ah....... Bryce is the AntiKampe
Rethinking my snide remark below, it occurs to me that Bryce's all-in team philosophy might actually be a recruiting handicap. (Preface: I don't know Felder at all). Assuming a player like Felder is available, despite being recruited by a highly successful Valpo program, he might be turned off by the fact that most of our best players contribute within the Valpo system and are not "featured" (translation: playing long minutes and allowed to run up stats). "Valpo players" to me at least, are kind of special in that regard. Having said that, it follows that I doubt we'll ever see a guy who averages, say, 24 ppg/35 mpg on our roster. Does that make sense?
Granted, it's about team wins, but wouldn't it be nice to maintain the winning tradition AND have a nationally featured player who is a tremendous scorer as well? Just askin.......
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 01, 2016, 02:53:23 PMQuote from: hailcrusaders on January 01, 2016, 02:30:52 PMQuote from: StlVUFan on January 01, 2016, 01:57:53 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on January 01, 2016, 01:41:36 PMI don't recall the year but I remember when we started HL season 0-1 with a home loss to UIC. We went on to win the season.
You're thinking of Loyola, in 2013.
Loyola had a respectable team that year. Better than UIC this year.
Agreed. But we never lost to UIC at the beginning of conference play.
Correct.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 01, 2016, 06:17:03 PMRethinking my snide remark below, it occurs to me that Bryce's all-in team philosophy might actually be a recruiting handicap. (Preface: I don't know Felder at all). Assuming a player like Felder is available, despite being recruited by a highly successful Valpo program, he might be turned off by the fact that most of our best players contribute within the Valpo system and are not "featured" (translation: playing long minutes and allowed to run up stats). "Valpo players" to me at least, are kind of special in that regard. Having said that, it follows that I doubt we'll ever see a guy who averages, say, 24 ppg/35 mpg on our roster. Does that make sense? Granted, it's about team wins, but wouldn't it be nice to maintain the winning tradition AND have a nationally featured player who is a tremendous scorer as well? Just askin.......
I agree and have thought about that. Several of our players would be getting more minutes at other midmajors. If Green Bay landed Skara, he would be playing almost every minute.
I only used Felder as an example, but there have been a number of really good "featured" opponents over the last few years like McCallum at Detroit, and Brown and Sykes at Green Bay also at Oakland (Travis Bader?), but those teams never lived up to the hype generated by their featured player. You guys can probably think of a lot more. Make no mistake, I thoroughly enjoy the unselfish team play that Bryce demands and the players have bought into. Yet, sometimes way in the back of my mind, I kinda wish Bryce would unleash a guy like Alec and pad his stats a bit more. In one way it draws even more attention to the whole program ala Dougy McBuckets and sends a message to talented recruits that "you might get great personal press clippings every now and again" ;) . If AP, for instance, was playing in a feature role in another program, he'd personally have even better stats than he does now in ours I'll bet.
From the UIC home page:
CHICAGO -- With non-conference play now in the rearview mirror, UIC shifts its focus toward familiar Horizon League foes beginning with a visit to Valparaiso on Saturday, January 2 at 1 p.m. CST.
The game will air on the American Sports NetworkFollowing, Brock Bowling
(PxP) and Bob Donewald (Sr) (Color) [available locally on Comcast SportsNet
Chicago], and it can be seen locally on Comcast SportsNet Chicago. ESPN3 will also provide an online stream of the conference clash, while Jonathan Hood, Kenny Williams and Chris Bleck will provide the radio call on ESPN1000 Chicago.
Below are a few headlines as UIC preps to head out on the three-game road trip with the first stop at Valparaiso on Saturday afternoon:
DIXSON DOES IT AGAIN
For the third time in seven weeks, UIC's Dikembe Dixson was named the Horizon League Freshman of the Week on Monday, Dec. 28. The Freeport, Ill., native poured in 17 points to go along with a game-high nine rebounds and a career-best three steals in a victory over Purdue Calumet on Dec. 22. Dixson becomes the first-ever Flame to win the HL Freshman of the Week award three times, and he is the first player in program history to win at least three weekly recognitions of any kind since Mark Miller won the conference's Player of the Week award four times during the 1997-98 campaign.
SHARING THE ROCK
UIC has registered double-digit assists in eight of its 11 games this season, reaching 15-plus helpers six different times. The Flames notched 20+ assists in a single game for the second time this season when they registered 21 against Purdue Calumet on Dec. 22. Paris Burns handed out a season-high seven helpers against the Peregrines, while Lance Whitaker had seven second-half assists last time out vs. Northern Illinois. The team had 18 assists, and 12 in the second half, against the Huskies Tuesday.
LINEUP SHUFFLE
UIC head coach Steve McClain has used nine different starting lineup combinations in 11 games after mixing it up once again against Purdue Calumet on Dec. 22. McClain has used the same starting five of Paris Burns, Dikembe Dixson, Dominique Matthews, Tai Odiase and Lance Whitaker three times, including last time out vs. NIU (Dec. 29). In total, ten different Flames have received a starting nod, while Odiase and Dixson have opened all 11 games thus far.
COACH'S KID
Freshman Drew Hackett enjoyed a standout prep career at Munster H.S. in Munster, Ind., and he did it all while playing for his father, Mike Hackett. The duo helped the Mustangs win four conference championships, and sectional titles in 2013 and 2015. Hackett has appeared in 10 of 11 games with two starts. The guard is averaging 10.8 minutes per game.
MILESTONE WATCH
UIC, which began NCAA Division I play in 1981, needs one win to reach No. 500 at the level. The school's first team was fielded in 1947-48 and the program owns 808 all-time victories.
STRONG FINISHERS
Statistically speaking, UIC has been a more productive team in the second half this season. The Flames have seen increases in points per half (30.6|37.1), field goal percentage (.375|.392), 3-point field goal percentage (.287|.333) and free throw percentage (.585|.663) in the second half this season. The team's assist/turnover ratio also jumps from 0.8 in the first half to 1.1 in the second.
Horizon League HOME Openers...
2014-15 - Valpo 79 Youngstown State 64
2013-14 - Valpo 87 UIC 72
2012-13 - Loyola 63 Valpo 54
2011-12 - Milwaukee 57 Valpo 55
2010-11 - Valpo 79 Youngstown State 55
2009-10 - Milwaukee 55 Valpo 54
2008-09 - Butler 75 Valpo 62
2007-08 - Milwaukee 71 Valpo 69
I can think of 2 players that Bryce could have played 38+ min a game in his short coaching career: Peters and Broekoff. The current team is 9 guys deep so playing Peters more takes away from the depth strength. I think the 12-13 team was even more deep with 9-10 guys getting minutes. Again, playing Broekoff more would have taken away from this depth. It is hard to argue with results as both of these teams won the conference and played in the Tourney. Could they have beaten Maryland or MSU if their stars played more minutes all season, I don't think so.
Out of curiosity does anyone anyone know how many minutes per game Bryce averaged his Jr or Sr seasons? If playing a star more minutes increases the chances of winning I think Bryce would do it, he's paid to win games. I just don't think the star has been bright enough or the bench weak enough to warrant.
Quote from: valpocleveland on January 02, 2016, 10:07:07 AMOut of curiosity does anyone anyone know how many minutes per game Bryce averaged his Jr or Sr seasons?
Just to test the site I was recently tipped off to (thanks a3uge)
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bryce-drew-1.html (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bryce-drew-1.html)
has limited statistics back that far.
34.8 mpg his junior year, no minutes his senior year (and he's the only player on the team with minutes his junior year?). About the same his first two years.
Brandon Wood averaged a bit less than 32. Broekhoff about 32 in his last two years, 15 and 28 the first two. Peters about 30.
Skara is starting in place of Darien.
That's some big time size, but not a lot of ball handling. Nonetheless, Darien has been terrible offensively this year.
Did something happen to Skara? I turned the game on when it was 4-0 and haven't seen him in yet.
Can't complain too much up 17, but Valpo has to be one of the worst teams at burning clock. Darien turn around fadeaway 3 and a foul on the rebound. Yeesh. I wish Valpo would just ignore the clock and try to get a good look. UIC probably isn't going to run it down the court and score in 15 seconds anyways, so you might as well go for a decent look.
Announcer thinks this is a 2 or 3 bid league this year. Lol.
That LeCrone interview was ridiculous. HL a "high major," "getting better and better every year," "2 or 3 bid league this year," Wowsers!
Quote from: wh on January 01, 2016, 04:37:28 PM
Quote from: a3uge on January 01, 2016, 03:28:18 PM
Valpo favored by 26.5 lol
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Oh my word. Take the points!
We beat the spread!!!
And the RPI plunge begins. Down to 42nd on the win.
Is this how Butler felt?
The top 5 HL teams based on OOC record... are all at home today against the bottom 5...
Taking a periodic look at the Nolan RPI as the scores come in:
After the Valpo and Green Bay finals:
Valpo 42
Oakland 94
Detroit 102
Milwaukee 134
Green Bay 148
Cleveland State 162
Wright State 198
Youngstown State 258
Northern Kentucky 306
UIC 344
Quote from: talksalot on January 02, 2016, 03:42:31 PM
Valpo 42
UIC 344
There was a pretty big gap above 346, so UIC only moved up two spots on their road loss.
346 (0.3529) --> 344 (0.3640)
to our fall on the win
28 (0.6150) --> 42 (0.5977)
We can watch our conference RPI fall too.
15 (0.4951) --> 15 (0.4928).
Vashil had 6 blocks and 13 rebounds. What a beast.
Quote from: talksalot on January 02, 2016, 03:42:31 PMTaking a periodic look at the Nolan RPI as the scores come in:After the Valpo and Green Bay finals:Valpo 42Oakland 94Detroit 102Milwaukee 134Green Bay 148Cleveland State 162Wright State 198Youngstown State 258Northern Kentucky 306UIC 344
and after the Detroit and Oakland scores are posted
4:10pm
Valpo 42
Oakland 95
Detroit 106 (was 107 briefly)
Milwaukee 133
Green Bay 155
Cleveland State 172
Wright State 192
Youngstown State 257
Northern Kentucky 307
UIC 344
I know this is going to sound nit-picky after a 28 point win, but I walked out of the ARC feeling we are not nearly where we need to be offensively. Tevonn was 1-9. Alec only took 6 shots. I'm not sure how this keeps happening that we can't free him up for a minimum of 12-15 shots opportunities, unless he's being double teamed, which he wasn't. Alec posted up his man countless times, yet I don't think he received a low post feed once the entire game. Part of the problem is we don't have anyone with point guard passing skills except our 1 true point guard. 12 assists to 14 TO's? That is not going to get it done against really good competition.
Fortunately, the same team that disappoints on offense also has 1 of the top 10 defenses in the country, which makes us very hard to beat no matter what's happening on the other end.
Maybe I just expect too much.
Quote from: talksalot on January 02, 2016, 04:09:04 PMQuote from: talksalot on Today at 03:42:31 PMTaking a periodic look at the Nolan RPI as the scores come in:After the Valpo and Green Bay finals:Valpo 42Oakland 94Detroit 102Milwaukee 134Green Bay 148Cleveland State 162Wright State 198Youngstown State 258Northern Kentucky 306UIC 344and after the Detroit and Oakland scores are posted4:10pmValpo 42Oakland 95Detroit 106 (was 107 briefly)Milwaukee 133Green Bay 155Cleveland State 172Wright State 192Youngstown State 257Northern Kentucky 307UIC 344
and now that Tiby quit scoring and Wright State pulled out the only road-win in the HL today,
(skewed by the Rhode Island win over St. Louis 85-57 !)
5:39pm
Valpo 41 (had been 43 for a while)
Oakland 95
Detroit 110
Milwaukee 166
Green Bay 153
Wright State 158 (had fallen to 201)
Cleveland State 168
Youngstown State 259
Northern Kentucky 307
UIC 345
making is easier to look and compare:
Real Time RPI through yesterday:
Valpo 28
Oakland 89
Detroit 99
Milwaukee 134
Green Bay 141
Cleveland State 152
Wright State 202
Youngstown State 259
Northern Kentucky 304
UIC 346
Taking a periodic look at the Nolan RPI as the scores come in:
1. After the Valpo and Green Bay finals:
2. After the Oakland and Detroit finals
3. After the Wright State final
4. after a few more, like Virginia and OK State
5. and a few more
3:42pm 4:10pm 5:40pm 6:48pm 8:35pm
Valpo 42 42 41 42 44
Oakland 94 95 95 91 93
Detroit 102 106 110 112 106
Milwaukee 134 133 166 170 170
Green Bay 148 155 153 150 151
Cleveland State 162 172 168 168 165
Wright State 198 192 158 158 156
Youngstown State 258 257 259 261 265
Northern Kentucky 306 307 307 305 304
Illinois Chicago 344 344 345 346 345
UWM...ouch!
1. welcome back Vashil
2. who allowed LeCrone in the building?
I think our SOS rank dropped about 35 places just from this game. That hurts! The RPI only dropped 14.
During the LeCrone interview, did anyone hear the commentators say that moving the conference championship game to Detroit opens the door to the underdog? Is this what you want in a 1-bid league?
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 02, 2016, 07:11:25 PM
During the LeCrone interview, did anyone hear the commentators say that moving the conference championship game to Detroit opens the door to the underdog? Is this what you want in a 1-bid league?
I said somewhere here that it is stupid that our conference would give the under dog a better chance. Duh - you want your best team to make it into the tournament because they will get a better seed and (duh) have a better chance of winning .... (which, did i saw - duh - that is better for the conference)
Go Valpo!
Quote from: wh on January 02, 2016, 05:18:55 PM
I know this is going to sound nit-picky after a 28 point win, but I walked out of the ARC feeling we are not nearly where we need to be offensively. Tevonn was 1-9. Alec only took 6 shots. I'm not sure how this keeps happening that we can't free him up for a minimum of 12-15 shots opportunities, unless he's being double teamed, which he wasn't. Alec posted up his man countless times, yet I don't think he received a low post feed once the entire game. Part of the problem is we don't have anyone with point guard passing skills except our 1 true point guard. 12 assists to 14 TO's? That is not going to get it done against really good competition.
Fortunately, the same team that disappoints on offense also has 1 of the top 10 defenses in the country, which makes us very hard to beat no matter what's happening on the other end.
Maybe I just expect too much.
I also blame our lack of a post presence. You simply cannot have a potent offense without at least one guy who can consistently score in the post. It opens up the 3 point line which, in turn, opens up driving lanes. Every player on this team would see their offensive stats get better with somebody successfully working the block.
But didn't WH say that Alec was setting up at the low post and no one was feeding him?
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 02, 2016, 07:11:25 PM
During the LeCrone interview, did anyone hear the commentators say that moving the conference championship game to Detroit opens the door to the underdog? Is this what you want in a 1-bid league?
Lecrone said that? That's the exact opposite of what he said in 2002 in promoting the change to the double bye format held at the venue of the number 1 seed. It was all about rewarding the teams that perform the best over an 18 game season and giving the HL the best opportunity to advance in the NCAA tournament. Of course, that was during the "do anything to keep Butler happy" period. He obviously has a much different agenda these days.
By the way, there is absolutely no reason the league headquarters should continue to be located in Indianapolis, IN. The HL has no member schools there, we're not playing our tournament there, it's on the edge of the league's footprint, and it's a constant reminder of the past and what once was. LeCrone should put his money where his mouth is relative to his vision for the future and move the league's headquarters to downtown Detroit, MI. Imagine how much money the league would save in travel costs (lodging, meals, mileage, etc.) for HQ employees if they lived locally in Detroit. The annual conference media event should also be held in Detroit instead of Chicago - same reason and benefits. The bottom line is for best branding benefit everything the league does should be Detroit centric from here on out.
Quote from: wh on January 02, 2016, 11:16:22 PMThe annual conference media event should also be held in Detroit instead of Chicago - same reason and benefits. The bottom line is for best branding benefit everything the league does should be Detroit centric from here on out.
This was considered this year. They looked at a variety of dates and locations between Detroit and Chicago. The decision was made to go to Chicago to piggyback on Big Ten media day. My thoughts are that the event will be in Detroit from here on out.
Quote from: wh on January 02, 2016, 11:16:22 PMBy the way, there is absolutely no reason the league headquarters should continue to be located in Indianapolis, IN. The HL has no member schools there, we're not playing our tournament there, it's on the edge of the league's footprint, and it's a constant reminder of the past. LeCrone should put his money where his mouth is and move the league's headquarters to downtown Detroit, MI. Imagine how much money the league would save in travel costs (lodging, meals, mileage, etc.) for HQ employees if they lived locally in Detroit. The annual conference media event should be held in Detroit instead of Chicago - same reason and benefits. The bottom line is for best branding benefit everything the league does should be Detroit centric from here on out.
Makes perfect sense to me! Lets take it one step further. Any inter-league travels should bypass the entire Indianapolis area for the foreseeable future. Me, I have no reason to travel to Indy so why should LeCrone? Well maybe we could volunteer to go help him pack? Na! His old friends from Butler will be glad to help!
Quote from: wh on January 02, 2016, 05:18:55 PM
I know this is going to sound nit-picky after a 28 point win, but I walked out of the ARC feeling we are not nearly where we need to be offensively. Tevonn was 1-9. Alec only took 6 shots. I'm not sure how this keeps happening that we can't free him up for a minimum of 12-15 shots opportunities, unless he's being double teamed, which he wasn't. Alec posted up his man countless times, yet I don't think he received a low post feed once the entire game. Part of the problem is we don't have anyone with point guard passing skills except our 1 true point guard. 12 assists to 14 TO's? That is not going to get it done against really good competition.
Fortunately, the same team that disappoints on offense also has 1 of the top 10 defenses in the country, which makes us very hard to beat no matter what's happening on the other end.
Maybe I just expect too much.
Why run sets for your best player and put them on film when you're up double figures the last 30 minutes of the game? The offense was running fine without forcing shots for Alec. And Tevonn was over 50% for the year entering the game from the floor - he hits at least 2-3 more of his shots on a normal night.
Our turnover percentage was a bit high - not horrible at 20.1%, but still the highest it's been since Oregon. But with our offense, just looking and saying "12 assists, 14 turnovers, that's not good" doesn't tell the whole story. A large part of our offense is predicated on getting switches and picking up mismatches to take advantage of. How many times do we see Shane or David drive by guys and finish at the rim because they have mismatches? Or Alec post up smaller guys and work them for easy buckets? Or our guards get a big switched onto them, take advantage of the buffer zone they're being given and hit a jump shot?
Would I like to see more post ups for Alec? I think given his improvement on the block, yes. But given our overall performance today, it was not necessary at all.
What actions are needed to get rid of 3-bid LeCrone and get someone who can truly elevate this conference?
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 03, 2016, 07:54:24 PMWhat actions are needed to get rid of 3-bid LeCrone and get someone who can truly elevate this conference?
I think this has been blogged about in the past. Do we know if LaBarbera and company are as upset as we are about the tourney moving thus giving an advantage elsewhere? I think he voted for it.
The vote to move the conference tournament was not unanimous. I believe there were two votes against it. One came from the state of Indiana (I believe), and I don't recall the other. Milwaukee comes to mind, but I have no reason other than it coming to mind to think that's the case.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 03, 2016, 08:13:38 PM
I think this has been blogged about in the past. Do we know if LaBarbera and company are as upset as we are about the tourney moving thus giving an advantage elsewhere? I think he voted for it.
My understanding is that Valpo was unhappy and voted against the tourney move to Detroit. LaBarbera artfully stated his reaction at the time: "We thought the previous format worked well and achieved the league goals."
You Win a Game by 28 Pts , you are 11-3, you have won 3 of the last four titles, now you think all title games should be in Valpo, can't we play for a title on the road, if not we should not go to the NCAAs. give it a break. This team is special, enjoy!!!!
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 03, 2016, 08:13:38 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 03, 2016, 07:54:24 PMWhat actions are needed to get rid of 3-bid LeCrone and get someone who can truly elevate this conference?
I think this has been blogged about in the past. Do we know if LaBarbera and company are as upset as we are about the tourney moving thus giving an advantage elsewhere? I think he voted for it.
There's no way in hell he voted for it.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on January 03, 2016, 08:16:25 PM
The vote to move the conference tournament was not unanimous. I believe there were two votes against it. One came from the state of Indiana (I believe), and I don't recall the other. Milwaukee comes to mind, but I have no reason other than it coming to mind to think that's the case.
Valpo and UIC.
When Valpo joined the HL in '07, many of us openly complained that the current format gave too big of an advantage to the top seed (home court plus double bye). Some of the most respected posters from other HL programs (Zville, BigDWSU, BigDUIC, BlackPantherUWM, GhostofDylan, 2 Detroit mainstays, etc.) came on our board numerous times and to a man unwaveringly defended it.
Of all the defenders and all the defenses, I will always remember something Dylan said, "You'll just have to wait until you win the league to appreciate it." And so after struggling and making steady improvement over 4 long seasons, we finally got to host in 11-12, hosted and won in '12-13 and hosted and won again in '14-15. And you know what? Life was good - just like our friends that had experienced it before us said it would be. How good? Several of our current players, including our 3-star players Alec and Derrik watched from the stands in the craziest atmosphere in mid major basketball as we won our first 2 conference tournament championships. Both called it an amazing experience and couldn't wait to be a part of it.
So, therein lies the problem. Like Butler before us, we have been able to build on our success through the benefits of the current format to where we have hosted 3 of the last 4 tournaments at the ARC. If not for the switch to Detroit, we would be favored to host again this year and very probably next year.
So, after establishing a system in 2002 designed to elevate and showcase Butler over everyone else only to have Butler leave the league for greener pastures, followed by a similar pattern forming at Valpo (which LeCrone has no personal allegiance to like he did Butler and Indy), he moves the tournament to Detroit.
So, why am I sharing all of this. For one it bothers me when 1 of our own fans says we've been "spoiled" by the benefits of the current format. Spoiled? Spoiled infers that you get things you haven't earned. When we came into the HL we were barely competitive. Homer worked tirelessly to build the program to where it became competitive and then Bryce worked tirelessly to get us over the top and keep us there. And they did it during the period that Butler owned the league and reaped all the benefits of being the king of the league. And they did it while having to overcome the recruiting obstacle of having what was considered by everyone as the worst venue in the league. Spoiled? Hardly!
Lastly, where are all the defenders of the old tournament format now? The ones that were telling us how the old format was the most creative tournament design in the history of college basketball. The one's whose university presidents all voted for the move to Detroit to hopefully make it easier for their programs to compete for a tournament championship without having to win the league first - something they just find too difficult to do these days.
Quote from: wh on January 04, 2016, 12:34:24 AM
When Valpo joined the HL in '07, many of us openly complained that the current format gave too big of an advantage to the top seed (home court plus double bye). Some of the most respected posters from other HL programs (Zville, BigDWSU, BigDUIC, BlackPantherUWM, GhostofDylan, 2 Detroit mainstays, etc.) came on our board numerous times and to a man unwaveringly defended it.
I haven't commented much here, because it really doesn't impact me much anymore. With that said, I still think the "old" format is most beneficial for a league like the Horizon, for reasons I've discussed several times on this board. I know the Milwaukee guys were ticked with the change (and really ticked that their president allegedly voted in favor of change).
No idea why schools would now vote in favor of the change, but assume the allure of guaranteed money from the organizers was attractive, especially with the HL's decline in NCAA tourney payouts.
Perhaps it's not too early for Valpo to begin working with city and area tourism/convention leaders to put together a bid to host the HL tournament when the Detroit contract expires. I have no idea how much money would be needed or what else might sweeten in the package, but at least we would show interest. Having a central site surely would bring more fans to the area than only hosting games beginning with the semi-finals and might expose additional people to the ease of reaching the beautiful tip of Lake Michigan and our proximity to Chicago.
Quote from: wh on January 04, 2016, 12:34:24 AMWhen Valpo joined the HL in '07, many of us openly complained that the current format gave too big of an advantage to the top seed (home court plus double bye). Some of the most respected posters from other HL programs (Zville, BigDWSU, BigDUIC, BlackPantherUWM, GhostofDylan, 2 Detroit mainstays, etc.) came on our board numerous times and to a man unwaveringly defended it.
I'm pretty sure I was one of the complainers. I know our dear departed rlh was another.
Amazingly enough, I did love it when Valpo had it, and a part of me is disappointed that we won't have another shot at hosting this year, primed as we are.
My position on it remains the same. By the way, we were also complaining about the double-bye, and my position on being oppposed to that remains the same as well.
"wh" you hit the nail on the head...amen! brother. It is too bad Lacrone didn't leave when Butler did.
Quote from: zvillehaze on January 04, 2016, 08:52:08 AM
I haven't commented much here, because it really doesn't impact me much anymore. With that said, I still think the "old" format is most beneficial for a league like the Horizon, for reasons I've discussed several times on this board. I know the Milwaukee guys were ticked with the change (and really ticked that their president allegedly voted in favor of change).
No idea why schools would now vote in favor of the change, but assume the allure of guaranteed money from the organizers was attractive, especially with the HL's decline in NCAA tourney payouts.
The decline in NCAA tourney payouts is a product of the fact that there have been no serious tourney performers to fully develop after the loss of Butler. It's a process that takes time and, more importantly, takes momentum and I'm afraid the conference has nipped that in the bud. As wh pointed out, and as seems obvious to all, hosting the tournament is a powerful way to improve recruiting. And year-over-year improvements in overall recruiting, the kind that make you deep at EVERY position, not the occasional "stud" here and there, are the only way mid-majors (especially high-turnover ones) can garner at-large berths and play deeper and deeper into the tourney.
It is a sad and difficult world for those who couldn't fill the void left by Butler when they had the chance, but voting to change the championship to a fixed venue in the hometown of two of the conference's teams will do little to boost the game-time chances of the non-Detroit teams and even less to their long-term prospects. Even if it results in no game-time advantage to the two Detroit teams, the fact that recruits from areas outside of Detroit will have to travel to see their teams play in the championship will have a chilling effect on recruiting parity and diversity for the league. The Horizon League is NOT a good enough conference to get away with not rewarding their highest performing team. There will be mediocrity, defections, and no financial gain overall.
I would strongly defend the old format and, even before Valpo became dominant in the conference, thought that it was the best format in the country. The regular season conference champion should be heavily rewarded for the best performance over 18 games. This is far more important than some additional sponsors in a fixed annual location and, consistent with other posters, creates a greater potential for consistently poor performance in the NCAA tourney.
Consider these alternatives. (1) Valpo and Oakland battle it out in the regular season to determine the host...where every game matters, (2) Valpo and Oakland play with the foregone conclusion of it being in Detroit anyway. The value is all in the first alternative and that doesn't even consider that Detroit and Milwaukee will also have very competitive teams.
Quote from: vu84v2 on January 04, 2016, 04:48:48 PMConsider these alternatives. (1) Valpo and Oakland battle it out in the regular season to determine the host...where every game matters, (2) Valpo and Oakland play with the foregone conclusion of it being in Detroit anyway. The value is all in the first alternative and that doesn't even consider that Detroit and Milwaukee will also have very competitive teams.
I have indeed conceded this point. That's the one plus I see with the double-bye concept. It doesn't really change my mind overall, but I do recognize the value.
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 04, 2016, 07:29:04 PM(1) Valpo and Oakland
.... Valpo and Youngstown State...Battle it out...
sorry... just enjoyed the end of that game. YST shot lights out! 16 of 32 from 3pt range....
Guins got more rebounds including 15 offense boards, only committed 10 turnovers...
Oakland 13-27 from 3pt range.
CBSSports site has the score wrong... it was 100-98, not 102-98.
Never thought of Youngstown State and Valpo battling it out, but that was a pretty wild game (saw the highlights on Sportscenter after getting home from the other wild game last night).
It is certainly a lesson in needing to play consistent winning basketball and that any D1 team can rise up on any given night.
wow, UIC is a bad enigma. They played some teams very well but look pathetic in others.
Chicago college basketball is still in a sad state, especially with all the local talent in Chicago.
Quote from: zvillehaze on January 04, 2016, 08:52:08 AM
No idea why schools would now vote in favor of the change, but assume the allure of guaranteed money from the organizers was attractive, especially with the HL's decline in NCAA tourney payouts. [/b]
As one who has no dog in the fight (UIC will not be in the chase anytime soon), I'll throw my $.02 in on this. I think the main reason for the format change is to escape the "small time conference" stigma and to follow the format of the major conferences.
The problem: the Horizon League IS just a mid-major conference that is not getting any better. In fact, it's getting worse (2 schools with 300+ RPI, only one in top 100). We cannot compete with the "big boys" on any level, so why are we trying to emulate their tournament format?
The old format should have been left alone.
Quote from: circle70 on January 08, 2016, 12:23:23 PMThe problem: the Horizon League IS just a mid-major conference that is not getting any better. In fact, it's getting worse (2 schools with 300+ RPI, only one in top 100). We cannot compete with the "big boys" on any level, so why are we trying to emulate their tournament format?
That was precisely the point I tried to make recently. You can't just wish yourself into a higher level.
Well done, circle70