Now that we have officially clinched the #1 seed in the Horizon League Tournament, I want to start the conversation of supporting the team in Detroit. I know that the move of the Horizon League Tournament from campus sites to Joe Louis Arena in Detroit has been a point of contention for many Horizon League Fan Bases west of I-75 for numerous reasons. Rather than continuing to beat a dead horse (there's another thread in the "On the Horizon" section for more ranting and bashing of the decision), I was hoping to start a thread to see what the Valpo support and attendance of the event will be and if some of Valpo's most loyal supporters (i.e.- members of this forum) are going to Detroit for the Horizon League Tournament. So... who is making the journey to Detroit?
For those that don't know, the Valparaiso University Alumni Office is putting together resources for those that want to make the trip to the Motor City for the tournament.
Details: http://alumni.valpo.edu/s/1347/index.aspx?sid=1347&gid=1&pgid=1653&cid=3455&ecid=3455&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1962 (http://alumni.valpo.edu/s/1347/index.aspx?sid=1347&gid=1&pgid=1653&cid=3455&ecid=3455&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1962)
Through the Alumni Office, you can buy individual game tickets for $20 per game (Tickets are in Section 122 until it sells out), pre-game Valpo dinners in the Detroit Red Wings Legends Club, and there is a bus that will leave Valpo on Monday, March 7 and return on Wednesday, March 9. There is also a link for the Valpo Block of hotel rooms at the Hilton Garden Inn.
You can also get all-session tickets or individual game tickets from the Motor City Madness Website or calling the VU Ticket Office.
Details: http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/tickets (http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/tickets)
The official Valpo section is section 122, which is center court behind the "home team" bench. We are lovingly nestled between the Oakland fans in 121 and the Detroit fans in 123...
I know that the tournament location change will bring more Oakland and Detroit fans to the tournament than Valpo fans, whereas the old format would have given us the home court with 4000+ Valpo Fans in attendance. It'll be very different than what we have grown so accustomed to in the Horizon League, but we have to play the games we're given and support our team no matter what. This may be both naive and ambitious, but I hope that we can show up and have the third largest HL fan base in attendance and give respectable support to this team that has given us so much so far this season.
I am bringing two others and myself to the tournament.
Valpo fans will probably come very close to beating out Detroit fans for total numbers at this event. The Crusader group will probably be less but I don't think it will be by much.
The Semi-Finals and Finals need to be moved to a weekend ASAP, even if that is 2018. It is just too hard to get up there with work. I am considering leaving right after work on Monday, taking off Tuesday, and going to to work VERY TIRED on Wednesday. We shall see.
Just for a look...if the season ended now...
(http://i67.tinypic.com/doqam9.jpg)
No ties currently in the standings, as teams have played either 15, 16 or 17 games. I would expect that to change (even tonight, possibly)...but I was happy I didn't have to figure any out this morning.
we want Detroit, UIC, UWM and Oakland on the other side of the bracket.
Although I could make it to Detroit for the Finals, I am boycotting the Mid-Con errr Horizon Tourney this year as protest for changing the format. It may just be 2 fans but the principle is important. We have attended in Valpo in 2013 and 2015 with a drive almost 2x as long. We continue to be baffled by the conference's decision and pray that we exit this conference for the A-1X or Big East at the earliest opportunity.
Several on here will probably not agree but.
1. Pack the stadium with as many "protesting" fans as we can. Shirts and banners opposing the move.
2. Call up our buddies at UIC (they also voted against the move) and propose a package deal to MVC or A10. Unfortunately we are more attractive as a package deal with UIC. No way the MVC turns us down together.
3. Use the 20k from the HL tournament to pay our exit fee.
They just raised the exit fee a couple of years ago, right? And I think it's a little more serious now: 20k's not going to help much.
I'll likely be there for the semis and final, but it would be more fun at the ARC with more of my family there.
Not sure how many of the HL schools will be on spring break, but presumably playing 4 games on a weekday doesn't jive well with academic standards.
My biggest beef with the format is probably the "neutral" court. (Do we have data on how much of home court advantage is balls vs rims vs fans va beds?) And, I'll admit I'm a little sore about the league changing it's mind about the format, with the justification not obviously a winning one, after we've only gotten to enjoy it a few times.
I'm not sure I'm angry enough to make a sign, but if somebody handed me one and I had assurances it wasn't going to get me kicked out for any legitimate reason, I'd hold one for a bit.
Three Quick Points:
1. Does anyone know why the Wisconsin schools voted to go along with this tournament move? Based on the bit I've read on their forums, their fans aren't crazy about it either... but it sounds like a few are still going.
2. Personally, I prefer that our fans go in a sort of "protest," rather than not go at all, as that does two things. First and foremost, we are still there supporting our players, our team, and our school. And... if we don't show up, would conferences like the MVC, A10, or Big East really want us? Detroit is closer to Valpo than St. Louis (MVC) and New York (A10 and Big East) and if we cannot bring 300-500 fans to Detroit, why would we suddenly have a bigger fan base gather further away? (Yes, I think that we could travel better to STL or NYC, but they will use hard numbers from this tourney to judge us.)
3. I think it's impossible to have all of Oakland, Detroit, UWM, and UIC on the other side. I think one of Detroit and UWM would have to be a 4 or 5 seed.
I would be curious to know the timetable behind the scenes on this move, though i find it unlikely we ever will. Was there any chatter of this before the end of last season? I wasn't on the board then so if i'm rehashing i apologize. The timing on the announcement just seemed like a middle finger to us. Or was this a response to our public flirtation with MVC?
Of the 9 people from my family in attendance last year, I'm the only 1 going to Detroit. A hodgepodge of reasons - work, school, lost wages, hotel rooms, food, higher ticket prices, etc. - has dealt everyone out. Instead, my daughter and son-in-law are hosting a family viewing party at their house.
Having the semi's and finals on the weekend would have given the change to a neutral site a fighting chance for success, but having it on Mon/Tues is going to be an unmitigated disaster IMO. When the league was cooking this up, they should have drawn a line in the sand that if they couldn't get weekend TV coverage, they wouldn't go forward. Obviously they chose not to. If it somehow turns out to be a success, I will be the first person to call LeCrone a genius. If it turns out to be an embarrassing flop, I'll be the first to call for his resignation and a complete house cleaning at the HL office.
I still think most of the anger on this board is misplaced. A neutral court tournament can be a lot of fun, and "Motor City Madness" is something that can be well branded over time, but the change should have waited until we could renegotiate our TV schedule with ESPN. The games must be Thursday-Sunday or Friday-Monday.
Until that happens, this idea will be an absolute disaster. With all the data available on attendance for weeknight games vs. weekend games, my 9th graders would be smart enough to figure out this was a bad idea. When the attendance numbers come out, and they will be abysmal, LeCrone should be fired immediately.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 08:36:33 AM
Several on here will probably not agree but.
1. Pack the stadium with as many "protesting" fans as we can. Shirts and banners opposing the move.
2. Call up our buddies at UIC (they also voted against the move) and propose a package deal to MVC or A10. Unfortunately we are more attractive as a package deal with UIC. No way the MVC turns us down together.
3. Use the 20k from the HL tournament to pay our exit fee.
We're probably a more attractive packaged deal to the A-10 with Detroit.
We're probably a more attractive packaged deal to the MVC with New Mexico State.
Now, the OVC? UIC and Valpo would be pretty attractive as a packaged deal.
Valpo isn't going anywhere, anyway, unless of course the Big XII expands, which then causes the AAC to poach, which then causes C-USA to poach, which then causes the Sun Belt to poach or to call up FCS programs. Or, Wichita could start FBS football and leave the MVC via an invite somewhere. Then, we might have a chance. Otherwise,
fuggetabadit.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 22, 2016, 08:10:17 AM
Although I could make it to Detroit for the Finals, I am boycotting the Mid-Con errr Horizon Tourney this year as protest for changing the format. It may just be 2 fans but the principle is important. We have attended in Valpo in 2013 and 2015 with a drive almost 2x as long. We continue to be baffled by the conference's decision and pray that we exit this conference for the A-1X or Big East at the earliest opportunity.
Since when did you become principled?
All kidding aside, I can't blame you. Chicago or Indy I could see more people, not just Valpo fans, interested in going to the tournament and seeing the city. Baffled is an understatement!
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 22, 2016, 09:55:47 AM
A neutral court tournament can be a lot of fun
Neutral court? It's 14 minutes driving from one university and 35 minutes from another university. The next closest university is 2.5 hours away with 3 universities that's 3-3.5 hours away. I didn't realize that having the tourney in the backyard of 2 schools while making it cross state travel for the rest of the universities (It's nearly 8 hours for Green Bay to get to the Joe) doesn't exactly scream "neutral". If the Detroit and Oakland ticket packages don't sell out I'll be shocked. Indianapolis would be the closest thing to having it in a neutral location.
Quote from: agibson on February 22, 2016, 08:55:43 AM
Do we have data on how much of home court advantage is balls vs rims vs fans vs beds?
I believe there has been some research on this topic, and the short answer is that home court advantage across all sports is primarily caused by the fans' effects on the refs.
Here is a short write up on the research and book in this area done by an academic at the University of Chicago. http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/ (http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/)
Here's a short quote, "(the researchers) found that home teams essentially get slightly preferential treatment from the officials...officials don't consciously decide to give the home team an advantage — but rather, being social creatures (and human beings) like the rest of us, they assimilate the emotion of the home crowd and, once in a while, make a call that makes a whole lot of close-by, noisy people very happy."
4 straight years the Mid-Con was held in Tulsa, ORU won. Since, 1981 ORU has never won a tournament outside Tulsa, OK. Valpo left the conference shortly after the move of the tourney....
The last 10 years, the HL tourney host has won it 7 times, 70%.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 22, 2016, 09:08:31 AM
I would be curious to know the timetable behind the scenes on this move, though i find it unlikely we ever will. Was there any chatter of this before the end of last season? I wasn't on the board then so if i'm rehashing i apologize. The timing on the announcement just seemed like a middle finger to us. Or was this a response to our public flirtation with MVC?
I think this is a long standing issue that has been coming to a head even back to the days when Butler dominated the tournament and now the other teams saw the same thing happening with VU. The thinking is that outside of the HL the tournament format was seen as bush league and not the type of format a low major or high mid-major league would do for a "real" tournament. The HL wanted to be thought of in the same breath as the MVC and Arch Madness in St Louis and not some little league playing at school sites. To me the fact that the HL still has the double bye is amazing. This is the biggest advantage in any tournament format (other than playing at home) and something rarely seen in any conference tournament where the 1 and 2 seed only need to win 2 games to be tournament champions. Imagine being IPFW, they are assured a 1 or 2 seed in the Summit League tournament and will have to play in Sioux Falls, SD, win 3 games and their only advantage would be an extra days rest between games 1 and 2. How do you think that will work out for them....
I don't like the fact that the home court advantage has been taken away from the #1 seed, but then I am a Valpo fan. If I was a fan of another school I would probably be more in favor of the new format. I would have preferred that the new tournament be at a truly neutral site easily accessible to all teams, but honestly that is unlikely because the only city fitting that criteria with national recognition is Indianapolis (once again competing with the MVC and Arch Madness). I am not in the camp that thinks this is a HORRIBLE decision giving a tremendous advantage to the Detroit schools that will help them win the tournament and improve their recruiting. Will it help them in some slight way... you could make an argument for some slight advantage, will they sleep in their own beds... probably not, will they have huge screaming crowds cheering on the Detroit schools... that remains to be seen, would Alec Peters have gone to a different school because the HL tournament is held at "The Joe"... I doubt it.
In a perfect world how and where your tournament played out would not be an issue, but if you want to play in the big boy's sandbox I think you have to look like a reasonable facsimile of the big boys and our old tournament didn't do that for us. Forget all the talk about switching conferences, the only real option is the MVC and that isn't happening anytime soon.
Quote from: ml2 on February 22, 2016, 10:20:14 AM
Quote from: agibson on February 22, 2016, 08:55:43 AM
Do we have data on how much of home court advantage is balls vs rims vs fans vs beds?
I believe there has been some research on this topic, and the short answer is that home court advantage across all sports is primarily caused by the fans' effects on the refs.
Here is a short write up on the research and book in this area done by an academic at the University of Chicago. http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/ (http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/)
Here's a short quote, "(the researchers) found that home teams essentially get slightly preferential treatment from the officials...officials don't consciously decide to give the home team an advantage — but rather, being social creatures (and human beings) like the rest of us, they assimilate the emotion of the home crowd and, once in a while, make a call that makes a whole lot of close-by, noisy people very happy."
I recall about 25 years ago in an office bracket pool for the NCAA tournament that one person, who not having been born in the United States nor a basketball fan but wanted to participate, made all picks based on distance from the scheduled location. He ended up winning! Really deflated all of the work that others had used in making their picks!
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 22, 2016, 07:25:36 AM
The Semi-Finals and Finals need to be moved to a weekend ASAP, even if that is 2018. It is just too hard to get up there with work. I am considering leaving right after work on Monday, taking off Tuesday, and going to to work VERY TIRED on Wednesday. We shall see.
It's not a Horizon League decision. It's an ESPN decision and the HL just doesn't get the ratings that other conferences get so therefore it's on a Tuesday and not a weekend.
I believe they're moving it next year to the Sunday before.
Since the MVC lasted look into adding Valpo, the basketball team has gotten even better. Is that alone enough to offset our facilities shortcomings? This fieldhouse idea has been thrown around for a few years. What's the status on that? I recall around a $25 million price tag associated with it. Are we even halfway there yet? Until there are shovels in the ground, I don't see Valpo making a move up.
Quote from: FWalum on February 22, 2016, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 22, 2016, 09:08:31 AM
I would be curious to know the timetable behind the scenes on this move, though i find it unlikely we ever will. Was there any chatter of this before the end of last season? I wasn't on the board then so if i'm rehashing i apologize. The timing on the announcement just seemed like a middle finger to us. Or was this a response to our public flirtation with MVC?
I think this is a long standing issue that has been coming to a head even back to the days when Butler dominated the tournament and now the other teams saw the same thing happening with VU. The thinking is that outside of the HL the tournament format was seen as bush league and not the type of format a low major or high mid-major league would do for a "real" tournament. The HL wanted to be thought of in the same breath as the MVC and Arch Madness in St Louis and not some little league playing at school sites. To me the fact that the HL still has the double bye is amazing. This is the biggest advantage in any tournament format (other than playing at home) and something rarely seen in any conference tournament where the 1 and 2 seed only need to win 2 games to be tournament champions. Imagine being IPFW, they are assured a 1 or 2 seed in the Summit League tournament and will have to play in Sioux Falls, SD, win 3 games and their only advantage would be an extra days rest between games 1 and 2. How do you think that will work out for them....
I don't like the fact that the home court advantage has been taken away from the #1 seed, but then I am a Valpo fan. If I was a fan of another school I would probably be more in favor of the new format. I would have preferred that the new tournament be at a truly neutral site easily accessible to all teams, but honestly that is unlikely because the only city fitting that criteria with national recognition is Indianapolis (once again competing with the MVC and Arch Madness). I am not in the camp that thinks this is a HORRIBLE decision giving a tremendous advantage to the Detroit schools that will help them win the tournament and improve their recruiting. Will it help them in some slight way... you could make an argument for some slight advantage, will they sleep in their own beds... probably not, will they have huge screaming crowds cheering on the Detroit schools... that remains to be seen, would Alec Peters have gone to a different school because the HL tournament is held at "The Joe"... I doubt it.
In a perfect world how and where your tournament played out would not be an issue, but if you want to play in the big boy's sandbox I think you have to look like a reasonable facsimile of the big boys and our old tournament didn't do that for us. Forget all the talk about switching conferences, the only real option is the MVC and that isn't happening anytime soon.
I think it's important to remember that the "other schools" that have been perpetually bitching about the unfairness of the current format over the past couple of years are the same ones that unanimously voted for it in 2002 because the system they had at that time was "unfair." In fact, the powers that be proclaimed the double bye, top seed hosted format as highly progressive, ahead of its time, a future trendsetter, blah, blah, blah. Moreover, we weren't even a twinkle in our HL parent's eyes back then. By the time we came along, the league was fully entrenched in the system and as unfair as it seemed to us, we were simply told 'deal with it.' So, deal with it we did, with 4 championships in the past 5 years and 2 (working on 3) NCAA tournament appearances. So, the same cry baby programs come out of the woodwork once again and along with our "entitled" newbie with their entitled AD and entitled coach cry foul once again.
It should be obvious by now that these people aren't looking for equality of opportunity; they're looking for shortcuts to success to overcome their own ineptitude. I have zero sympathy for any of it. We earned what we have - the hard way, against long odds, by the rules they set up. We did it with hard work on the recruiting trail to recruit top-notch athletes of high character and moral standing, we did it with a superior coaching team with better leadership and X-and-0 skills, and we even did it with a better OOC scheduling strategy. But that's not what these people are looking for. They want a gimmick, a shortcut. At this point, all I care about is us winning this "neutral" tournament - preferably in front of 150 people - and going to the Big Dance. The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
Quote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMThe HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us. I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package. UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville. Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students. The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference.
I used to live in a low income neighborhood. I moved out to the suburbs. Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself?
If we want more success, take advantage of our current success. During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined). Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder?
This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid. One is far fetch one should be reality.
The location Detroit is a factor of having 6 schools in Michigan, Ohio. Kentucky and only 4 west of the Indiana state line more votes in the east Due to the loss of Butler and Loyola. Scheduling is controlled by Broadcast Scheduling (ESPN).
We have Beaten both Detroit both home and away. Only Wright State has an advantage and we have the skills to deal with that on a good day. Lets take care of Wisconsin this weekend and match our best record ever and get our beast seed. ;D
With all due respect, I am not a supporter of this boycotting and protesting idea. It will be punishing our team and players who deserve nothing short of our 100% support.
If we want to be a big time (in athletics) school, if we want to move on to a bigger conference, if we want to convince Bryce to stay in town, we have to ROCK DETROIT!!! One of the characteristics of the big time programs is that they travel well. It is time for us to put our $ and our time where our mouth is.
I am heading there along 3 other people.
Quote from: FWalum on February 22, 2016, 11:26:15 AMI would have preferred that the new tournament be at a truly neutral site easily accessible to all teams, but honestly that is unlikely because the only city fitting that criteria with national recognition is Indianapolis (once again competing with the MVC and Arch Madness).
I would like that. :-)
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 01:32:13 PM
Quote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMThe HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us. I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package. UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville. Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students. The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference.
I used to live in a low income neighborhood. I moved out to the suburbs. Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself?
If we want more success, take advantage of our current success. During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined). Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder?
This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid. One is far fetch one should be reality.
News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.
Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2016, 02:36:06 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 01:32:13 PMQuote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMThe HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us. I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package. UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville. Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students. The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. I used to live in a low income neighborhood. I moved out to the suburbs. Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? If we want more success, take advantage of our current success. During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined). Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder? This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid. One is far fetch one should be reality.
News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.
That was when they were looking for 1 university to replace the 1 they lost.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2016, 02:36:06 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 01:32:13 PMQuote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMThe HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us. I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package. UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville. Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students. The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. I used to live in a low income neighborhood. I moved out to the suburbs. Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? If we want more success, take advantage of our current success. During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined). Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder? This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid. One is far fetch one should be reality.
News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.
That was when they were looking for 1 university to replace the 1 they lost.
What indication do you have that they want to add 2 more teams, one of which is one of the worst teams in D1 basketball this year?
Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2016, 02:43:27 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2016, 02:36:06 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2016, 01:32:13 PMQuote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMThe HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us. I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package. UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville. Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students. The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. I used to live in a low income neighborhood. I moved out to the suburbs. Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? If we want more success, take advantage of our current success. During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined). Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder? This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid. One is far fetch one should be reality.
News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.
That was when they were looking for 1 university to replace the 1 they lost.
What indication do you have that they want to add 2 more teams, one of which is one of the worst teams in D1 basketball this year?
EXACTLY, nowhere is there any indication that the MVC wants to add 2 teams now or in the future. I will say this in UIC's defense, I think they are poised to make a big move up in the conference next year, but that wouldn't make any difference to the MVC. What conference in their right mind would want to add more teams to their league just to split the NCAA pie into smaller pieces. And don't tell me that adding us or UIC would add an additional NCAA bid to the MVC or somehow add to their television revenue.
I bought my ticket to Historic JLA through the valpo.edu website, there are bus and/or dinner and/or game ticket options for Monday and Tuesday night.
I figured that would at least put me in the Valpo cheering block.
I'm planning to leave Wednesday morning to drive back.
OH. I'm wondering if I was their marketing plan. Last year, I did not have to buy a ticket... this year I did. There you have it... $20 pure profit over last year.... although, wait, since UDM staff are the official hosts, they probably don't need to buy tickets, so I guess that's a wash.
Befuddled and Bewildered.... but attending cuz I'm a fan.
It's the exact middle of spring break for our students, so any thought of doing a bus trip for the students would be out since they'll all have been home for a week before the semi-final and final.
That's a lot of driving for one day. Currently not planning on going. That might change if/when we win on that Monday night.
I was afraid that this thread was going to turn into this quagmire of bashing the tourney/conference and/or a discussion on leaving for another conference...
What is not going to change anytime soon:
1. Valpo and/or UIC leaving for the MVC, A10, Big East, Big Ten, NBA, etc. We had our chance and the MVC chose Loyola.
2. The Horizon League Tournament being in Detroit. It's a five year contract with Olympia and ESPN, so the earliest change will be a whole cycle of students/recruits. The move makes sense for 6 of the 10 Horizon League schools, although only 2 voted against it. (Thanks UWM and UWGB!)
What is not changing by March, but could/should change in the near future:
1. The tournament could move from Saturday-Tuesday to a Thursday-Sunday/Friday-Monday system. This year's experiment and time will tell... (along with ESPN's input I'm sure)
2. The tournament format with double-byes. Tough to convince people to stick around for more than a day or two as lower seeds won't show up and higher seeds will wait to show up until Monday.
3. Valpo's support of this event. Clearly, most of us aren't happy with the change. But in order to be considered for greener pastures and to be seen as a top mid-major, we need to embrace the cards we are dealt and support this team in every way possible. Based on how this thread has gone so far, it is clear that many aren't going to Detroit this year for various reasons, but if attendance from Valpo is only one section every year, what conference above us is going to want us? Detroit is closer and cheaper than any other conference tournament that has been suggested we join. I know that we are sour this year, but I bet we relent when Valpo isn't #1 down the road.
What can/should change by March: (Apologies to anyone I offend, just my :twocents:...)
The number of Valpo fans that should go to Detroit to give our 110% percent support to our team, which may very well be the best team in school history. I feel that many on here are punishing this team because of a decision that neither the players nor our administration made by not going to the tournament. I understand that some of you want to make a statement and that is fine; make your statement by going in your biggest, brightest Valpo gear and make giant gold signs about the bad decision and hand them out to the whole Valpo section to be held up every time Alec drains a three, Vashil makes a block, Bryce takes off his jacket, etc. Don't make your statement by not going and making this even more of a road game for our guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their action, and I understand that not everyone can travel, take off work, fork over the money, etc. However, in my opinion, if you want and deserve better, let's prove that we are the class of the Horizon League, take the adversity by the horns, and make a bold statement by owning the tournament that should be ours, instead of sitting idly by and whining about how things are unfair for the us.
So, back to the original question... who else is going to the tournament? (That hasn't said yes or no already...)
A Monday semi and Tuesday final would fill JLA ..... IF it involved Enormous U vs. the U of Gigantic, each of which have tens of thousands of rabid alumni and subway alumni and even if only a small percentage came. This ain't that friends. But I guess the initial TV money will help to soften the shortfall. And it will be a shortfall. If they continue to pursue this strategy it will be years before the cameras will show a sizeable crowd at these games.
So, the HL has placed the first and second round games on the weekend (when people have the available time) and relegated the two most important rounds to the weeknights when so many of us can't attend. This runs counter to just about all the other good tournaments where the prelim rounds on Thursday and Friday get some support but the semis and final get the crowds on the weekend.
If the premise stated earlier was for the HL to present a class operation, IMO they should have told ESPN to pack sand and implemented their strategy to the benefit of the HL fans with weekend semis and the final. Screw the bucks initially and demonstrate to ESPN that Motor City Madness deserves weekend coverage. It might take a year or two, but it would achieve a measure of success much earlier than this current strategy.
Just my :twocents:
Unfortunately in today's society TV money is where it is at. It is guaranteed and you can shop between networks (ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports, NBC Sports etc). It is why all the preseason tournaments are popular right now but there are never anyone in the seats. $$$ from fans in the stand is minimal and heavily influenced (your team winning or losing, weather, traffic conditions, time allowance, etc).
If the HL wants a weekend time frame, you may have to ditch ESPN which wouldn't be the end of the universe anymore. However, the ESPN3 package is pretty sweet and that'd likely have to go too.
Still think the change is going to be beneficial for whatever team wins it for the NCAA tournament. All the games are played in stadiums like Joe Louis Arena. Unfortunately, playing a championship game in your home gym in front of your home fans does nothing to get you prepared to play in the NCAA (although, it does almost guarantee that the best team in the conference gets there).
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 22, 2016, 08:03:04 PM
Unfortunately in today's society TV money is where it is at. It is guaranteed and you can shop between networks (ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports, NBC Sports etc). It is why all the preseason tournaments are popular right now but there are never anyone in the seats. $$$ from fans in the stand is minimal and heavily influenced (your team winning or losing, weather, traffic conditions, time allowance, etc).
If the HL wants a weekend time frame, you may have to ditch ESPN which wouldn't be the end of the universe anymore. However, the ESPN3 package is pretty sweet and that'd likely have to go too.
Still think the change is going to be beneficial for whatever team wins it for the NCAA tournament. All the games are played in stadiums like Joe Louis Arena. Unfortunately, playing a championship game in your home gym in front of your home fans does nothing to get you prepared to play in the NCAA (although, it does almost guarantee that the best team in the conference gets there).
Yeah, a 15-16 seed team may come from the Horizon, but man, they'll be ready to play?!
When does our ESPN contract for the tournament ends? (nobody seems to have answered this yet)
C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.
Let's go back and look at last season. After the first six minutes of the NCAAT game, we had already built ourselves a 2-11 whole against Maryland. That simply cannot happen if you are wanting to spring an upset in the tournament against a quality team. It takes awhile to adjust your shooting and sightlines in a big arena and sometimes it never happens at all (Houston Final4 4 years ago - -espn was talking about this just last week with the final 4 being there again as the last time they hosted it everyone shot an abysmal percentage). We did not play a neutral game last year since November and even then it wasn't in an NCAA tournament type facility. We have not played in any of these settings/arenas this year either. Maryland plays in these arenas and tournaments all the time. Getting our team some experience in a NCAA type setting and atmosphere heading into the NCAAT will be invaluable IMO.
I'm really curious about the $$$ aspect of it too. Could the HL be promised approximately the same amount of $$$ to host the tournament there as a win in the NCAAT? If it is close to being a wash, it would make sense to why the HL would switch it up (guaranteed money while still likely getting one of your top 2 teams into the dance).
I'm just as upset as most of you are that Valpo is not hosting the HL tournament here this week. I think that was a fantastic and well earned opportunity for the school to show off our area. And frankly, it is weird knowing that we won the HL but we don't get to host any more games here. Remember just because we got to host it still doesn't necessarily mean that we would have won the whole thing too. I think there are some positives which can be taken out of the switch because unfortunately it will not be going back to the old format. See you guys in Detroit. Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 23, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.
Let's go back and look at last season. After the first six minutes of the NCAAT game, we had already built ourselves a 2-11 whole against Maryland. That simply cannot happen if you are wanting to spring an upset in the tournament against a quality team. It takes awhile to adjust your shooting and sightlines in a big arena and sometimes it never happens at all (Houston Final4 4 years ago - -espn was talking about this just last week with the final 4 being there again as the last time they hosted it everyone shot an abysmal percentage). We did not play a neutral game last year since November and even then it wasn't in an NCAA tournament type facility. We have not played in any of these settings/arenas this year either. Maryland plays in these arenas and tournaments all the time. Getting our team some experience in a NCAA type setting and atmosphere heading into the NCAAT will be invaluable IMO.
I'm really curious about the $$$ aspect of it too. Could the HL be promised approximately the same amount of $$$ to host the tournament there as a win in the NCAAT? If it is close to being a wash, it would make sense to why the HL would switch it up (guaranteed money while still likely getting one of your top 2 teams into the dance).
I'm just as upset as most of you are that Valpo is not hosting the HL tournament here this week. I think that was a fantastic and well earned opportunity for the school to show off our area. And frankly, it is weird knowing that we won the HL but we don't get to host any more games here. Remember just because we got to host it still doesn't necessarily mean that we would have won the whole thing too. I think there are some positives which can be taken out of the switch because unfortunately it will not be going back to the old format. See you guys in Detroit. Just my 2 cents.
As a point of clarification, we just played in a similar arena as JLA at the Q in Cleveland (which hosted the Regionals last year). Having been at Columbus last year (as well as numerous other sites), we have demonstrated we can show up for tourneys. My protest is personal and did not suggest it be joined or expanded, and it should not be seen as a slight to this team. In fact, it honors this team because they earned something that has been taken away. Other teams, including previous Valpo teams, Butler and Milwaukee, earned home court. And, remember the reason this format was instituted was to protect the higher seeds and their potential NCAA RPIs/seedings. Look, I've been around long enough now to see Valpo be jealously vibed by conference mates (Wright State's entry to the Mid-Con (demanding conference tourney at their site), the split of the Mid-Con and Butler's bolting when things got to tough for them). Valpo needs and must stand up for its rights (Battle hymn of the Republic starts playing), when you attack Valpo, you attack America....
I do like the idea of signs in protest. "This is STILL OUR HOUSE." "We're MAKING IT OUR ARC" "ARC NORTH." Or similar tasteful signs. How about even a throwback "The 313 is now the 219"
Yes, I got off topic. I stated I would attend the game and support the team but thought we needed to make a statement regarding our distaste for the new location of the conference tourney. How else will the powers of the HL know? I then turned it into jumping to the MVC.
Most on here are right when they bring the point that the MVC is not looking. Personally, I think the MVC's next move will be whatever Wichita St. wants. If WSU thinks bringing UIC and Valpo into the conference will be good, then the MVC will do it. MVC cannot afford losing Creighton then Wichita St. Just like the HL cannot afford losing Butler then Valpo.
Regardless if the MVC is looking we need to pursue it. Be aggressive. When do you ask for a raise? When you have done a consistently good job.
I wonder what Bryce thinks about this?
That's my last voice on that. :-X for a while anyways... Back to topic.
I just realized that both semifinals will be aired live on ESPNU this year. So we've got something better than previous seasons where they'd show the first semifinal tape delayed...
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 23, 2016, 08:49:01 AMI just realized that both semifinals will be aired live on ESPNU this year. So we've got something better than previous seasons where they'd show the first semifinal tape delayed...
And the #1 seed (some school named Valpo...) will play in the first game. They did set it up as a pretty tough turnaround for the other side of the bracket. A 9:30 PM tip on Monday...
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 23, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.
Oakland's expected RPI is 113. That's a middle 15-seed. Valpo is the only team in the HL positioned for anything better than a 15.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 23, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.
Cleveland State would like to buy you a drink.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 22, 2016, 09:20:03 PM
When does our ESPN contract for the tournament ends? (nobody seems to have answered this yet)
Why would the HL let it end? For the level of HL, ESPN on a Tuesday is the right choice.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 23, 2016, 08:39:23 AMWe both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.
QuoteAnd, remember the reason this format was instituted was to protect the higher seeds and their potential NCAA RPIs/seedings.
I think there are a couple of issues going on here. One is the
outside perception of the HL and the other was getting the highest possible seed and then winning the most games in the NCAAT.
Obviously this format/location is a compromise and the best one probably realistically available. I don't know how many of you watched this HL video, but the perceptions expressed by these coaches (interesting which coaches either chose not to participate or weren't asked to express opinions) do represent how the leagues tournament was viewed as "small time" by many of those outside of the league including potential recruits wanting to play on the 'big" stage.
Horizon League, Olympia Leaders Discuss #MotorCityMadness on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/151941372)
I think that having the double bye, with only 2 games then required to win the title, is still a HUGE advantage. No other conference that I saw has such an advantage. Conference Tournament Formats (http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2015/7/15/8975501/2016-conference-tournaments-brackets-schedule-tv-scores-college-basketball) For selfish reasons I understand all of those who feel betrayed by the league and that it seems when VU becomes dominate the format changes to make the tournament more "wide open". For us it stinks, but the HL is no longer "Butler's League" and needs to evolve to a conference that can be come an attractive "brand". Out of Conference scheduling guidelines need to be implemented NOW if we ever expect to be more than a single bid conference. While we are making some changes I say it is time to inject new blood into the League office. In his 24th year LeCrone has lead the league on a backwards trend (some people think this is just a one year fluke, but I don't think so) and we need a successor to be chosen and perhaps mentored over the next year. Then give LeCrone a 25th anniversary send off.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 23, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.
Let's go back and look at last season. After the first six minutes of the NCAAT game, we had already built ourselves a 2-11 whole against Maryland. That simply cannot happen if you are wanting to spring an upset in the tournament against a quality team. It takes awhile to adjust your shooting and sightlines in a big arena and sometimes it never happens at all (Houston Final4 4 years ago - -espn was talking about this just last week with the final 4 being there again as the last time they hosted it everyone shot an abysmal percentage). We did not play a neutral game last year since November and even then it wasn't in an NCAA tournament type facility. We have not played in any of these settings/arenas this year either. Maryland plays in these arenas and tournaments all the time. Getting our team some experience in a NCAA type setting and atmosphere heading into the NCAAT will be invaluable IMO.
I'm really curious about the $$$ aspect of it too. Could the HL be promised approximately the same amount of $$$ to host the tournament there as a win in the NCAAT? If it is close to being a wash, it would make sense to why the HL would switch it up (guaranteed money while still likely getting one of your top 2 teams into the dance).
I'm just as upset as most of you are that Valpo is not hosting the HL tournament here this week. I think that was a fantastic and well earned opportunity for the school to show off our area. And frankly, it is weird knowing that we won the HL but we don't get to host any more games here. Remember just because we got to host it still doesn't necessarily mean that we would have won the whole thing too. I think there are some positives which can be taken out of the switch because unfortunately it will not be going back to the old format. See you guys in Detroit. Just my 2 cents.
I think there is some merit to the thought that the top 2 seeds are protected, perhaps more so now to the 2 seed; instead of a big layover and getting a team coming off a win the night before on the same neutral court, they'll at least be playing a team that is competing in their 3rd consecutive day. I applaud that change.
However, this year the 2nd seed Oakland is a solid 15 seed. As wh said, their expected RPI is around 115. They'd have to leapfrog strong mid majors like UAB, UNC Wilmington, Yale, SFA, and Belmont. Historically, that RPI is a 15-16 seed.
I don't think you'll find much statistical significance behind playing the championship game in big neutral court gyms. Furthermore, the slight advantage you may gain would be wiped out by the statistically much poorer chance of winning in the championship game and making the tournament to begin with. Ask Murray State about gaining experience on a neutral court before the NCAA tournament. Would Valpo have erased a 10 point deficit last year if the game was on a neutral court? Would Green Bay have made only 1FG in the last 12 minutes? Probably not.
Valpo playing poorly in the opening minutes of the tournament is completely anecdotal evidence... just the game before, West Virginia opened up with a 7-0 run and held a 10 point lead at half vs Buffalo. We performed better vs a better team, despite the MAC Championship being held in a big empty stadium.
I could point to many examples that contradict your premise - FGCU in 2013 won the championship game at Mercer, then went to the Sweet 16. The next year Mercer won at FGCU and beat Duke in the opening round. Lehigh beat Duke after winning the Championship Game at Bucknell. Heck, Harvard didn't even have a Championship Game and won handily vs New Mexico. And of course, Butler had success in the Horizon with the same format. I'm not sure what the winning percentage in the tournament is for the non-neutral court teams vs their seed's winning percentage, but I'm sure you won't find much difference.
Jerry Slocum shouldn't get an opinion on the conference tournament.
Headed to Detroit with our traveling group of 4. We will watch every game. There is economical lodging all around the arena and a people mover to transport to restaurants etc. I have worked this territory for many years, feel completely safe and comfortable and look forward to enjoying 4 great days of college basketball. Go Crusaders
As most of you should know, I will be there at noon on Saturday for the entire tournament, and I will enjoy every game as I always used to in the Mid-Con days. To be clear, I'm not implying that all games will be good games and super-exciting or anything like that. I'm saying I'll enjoy spending the whole day watching tournament games. Sunday will only be 2 games, but then I'm still comparing it to being able to enjoy 2 concurrent tournaments ;)
OF COURSE as a selfish Valpo fan, I'm a little upset that this rug was pulled out from under us, BUT I don't think that's a valid reason to oppose it -- by the way, I do *not* agree that the double bye is earned by any team. 18 games is too small a sample size to prove who the best team in the conference is. I was opposed to it in 2008 and I remain opposed to. I enjoy it when Valpo has it, and I certainly enjoyed when the 2nd round, semifinals, and title games were at the ARC (for one thing, I could stay with my Dad and romp around my hometown, who wouldn't love that?), but I think it's overkill. I think getting to play the 8-9 winner should be reward enough.
This idea that we should protect our top seeds is antithetical to the very spirit of competition. If you're a top seed, you shouldn't need protection. And I know full well why the HL went that way, I know all the arguments about benefiting the HL profile in March by doing your best to guarantee success (rather than just entry) in the NCAA tournament. I have reached the point where I no longer favor such arguments. At best I am indifferent.
At any rate, I fully understand the anger. I just can't share in it for the most part.
Quote from: FWalum on February 23, 2016, 11:15:05 AMThen give LeCrone a 25th anniversary send off.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: FWalum on February 23, 2016, 11:15:05 AMOut of Conference scheduling guidelines need to be implemented NOW if we ever expect to be more than a single bid conference.
We have needed this for a long time but its "stand alone" corrective value has diminished with each passing season. The mid major basketball conferences now powerlessly serve at the behest of the big boys so competing amongst ourselves for marginal advantages gains us very little.
Could the establishment of some kind of mid major "Affiliation" be considered? I am thinking of an unshackled committee dedicated towards easing scheduling difficulties for each years best mid major candidates?
Quote from: HailVU2014 on February 22, 2016, 08:57:22 AM1. Does anyone know why the Wisconsin schools voted to go along with this tournament move? Based on the bit I've read on their forums, their fans aren't crazy about it either... but it sounds like a few are still going.
Not sure about Milwaukee, but Mary Ellen Gillespie, the Green Bay AD, had her placement and contract with the school negotiated by the consulting firm of Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner who (along with the Oakland members of the Horizon League) are the ones pushing for the Detroit deal. To be blunt, I'd guess it's a little quid pro quo.
http://julieroelach.com/testimonials/ (http://julieroelach.com/testimonials/)
This seems very odd to me and a huge potential conflict of interest. If ML left and the the new AD was placed in this manner, what would we think? Personally, I'd wonder if they are acting in the best interest of Valpo or scratching the back of those that scratched theirs. One more reason to get the heck outta this conference.
Saw the announcement from the HL offices that single session tickets were available. I took a look, even though I will not be going to the tournament, rather I will be in Florida that week helping my Mother wrap up some things concerning my father's death in December. Was very surprised to see that there are only about 425 single session seats available for the Semi-Finals. Either Olympia Entertainment has done a better job than I had thought or they only have a limited number of single session tickets available because of school blocks and multi-session commitments. I still expect the place to be only about 1/3 full for our first game.
Quote from: FWalum on February 24, 2016, 08:48:04 AM
Saw the announcement from the HL offices that single session tickets were available. I took a look, even though I will not be going to the tournament, rather I will be in Florida that week helping my Mother wrap up some things concerning my father's death in December. Was very surprised to see that there are only about 425 single session seats available for the Semi-Finals. Either Olympia Entertainment has done a better job than I had thought or they only have a limited number of single session tickets available because of school blocks and multi-session commitments. I still expect the place to be only about 1/3 full for our first game.
My guess would be that Olympia Entertainment is releasing the single session tickets in small blocks to fill in the lowermost levels that don't already have tickets sold. Once (if) those 425 tickets are sold, they would open up some higher level seats in blocks of 4-500. Just a guess.
Quote from: Valpower on February 23, 2016, 12:46:51 PM
Quote from: HailVU2014 on February 22, 2016, 08:57:22 AM1. Does anyone know why the Wisconsin schools voted to go along with this tournament move? Based on the bit I've read on their forums, their fans aren't crazy about it either... but it sounds like a few are still going.
Not sure about Milwaukee, but Mary Ellen Gillespie, the Green Bay AD, had her placement and contract with the school negotiated by the consulting firm of Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner who (along with the Oakland members of the Horizon League) are the ones pushing for the Detroit deal. To be blunt, I'd guess it's a little quid pro quo.
http://julieroelach.com/testimonials/ (http://julieroelach.com/testimonials/)
I assume this is the same Ms. Roe Lach?
Top Enforcement Officer of N.C.A.A. Is Ousted
N.C.A.A. Ousts Julie Roe Lach as Vice President of Enforcement
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html?referer=&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html?referer=&_r=0)
Quote from: wh on February 24, 2016, 11:46:36 AM
I assume this is the same Ms. Roe Lach?
Top Enforcement Officer of N.C.A.A. Is Ousted
N.C.A.A. Ousts Julie Roe Lach as Vice President of Enforcement
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html?referer=&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html?referer=&_r=0)
Correct. She's ambitious.
Wow. Just.....wow. I'm assuming this was a case of "She was in charge of division that screwed up" kind of move more than pointing the finger at her specifically. But even so, that Miami case was a pretty serious screw up, and I know there was way more to that than what the media reported. This again leads me to ask, What's the agenda here? And what is the behind the scenes power structure of the conference office? This will warrant some more discussion in the offseason. It's going to make future decisions in the league office like my thoughts about "Making a Murderer" (Great series btw): I don't know if we ended up in the right place, but I know I don't like how we got here.
Alright, I'm in. Ordered my tickets through the alumni association. Against my financial self-interest, perhaps, but I'll count it a vote of confidence in the team that I bought tickets for both games. (I'll try not to think about what happens if the unthinkable happens... but probably there's at least a 10-20% chance... would I really stick around for the final?)
I hope nobody is paying full price for these tickets. Think I saw one link advertising them for 40% off.
Quote from: HC on February 24, 2016, 03:32:14 PM
I hope nobody is paying full price for these tickets. Think I saw one link advertising them for 40% off.
There was one deal that I saw that looked _really_ good (half off? or $15 vs. $25?), but it was only for the Saturday.
If there's a better deal for the semis and finals than the $20 per day from the alumni association (with no add-ons, handling fees, etc.), let the board know!
Someone mentioned it earlier, but I think the structure of the tournament makes it a tough sell in a neutral environment. Since the 1 and 2 seeds get the double bye, those fans are less likely to buy full packages. And the other teams are less likely to buy the full package because there's a good chance they won't be playing on Monday or Tuesday.
That being said, I like the double bye for conferences like the Horizon League who are traditional one-bid conferences. I feel teams should be rewarded for their regular season efforts, not getting hot and winning a couple games in the conference tournament. The double bye is a good solution.
Not sure if I'll go to the tournament for the finals (I'll be out of town on Monday), but Detroit can be a fun place to visit.
Quote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMI think it's important to remember that the "other schools" that have been perpetually bitching about the unfairness of the current format over the past couple of years are the same ones that unanimously voted for it in 2002 because the system they had at that time was "unfair." In fact, the powers that be proclaimed the double bye, top seed hosted format as highly progressive, ahead of its time, a future trendsetter, blah, blah, blah. Moreover, we weren't even a twinkle in our HL parent's eyes back then. By the time we came along, the league was fully entrenched in the system and as unfair as it seemed to us, we were simply told 'deal with it.' So, deal with it we did, with 4 championships in the past 5 years and 2 (working on 3) NCAA tournament appearances. So, the same cry baby programs come out of the woodwork once again and along with our "entitled" newbie with their entitled AD and entitled coach cry foul once again.
It should be obvious by now that these people aren't looking for equality of opportunity; they're looking for shortcuts to success to overcome their own ineptitude. I have zero sympathy for any of it. We earned what we have - the hard way, against long odds, by the rules they set up. We did it with hard work on the recruiting trail to recruit top-notch athletes of high character and moral standing, we did it with a superior coaching team with better leadership and X-and-0 skills, and we even did it with a better OOC scheduling strategy. But that's not what these people are looking for. They want a gimmick, a shortcut. At this point, all I care about is us winning this "neutral" tournament - preferably in front of 150 people - and going to the Big Dance. The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
Maybe anger is the best political move. Maybe not.
So, in the end, were we appointed an official team bar in Detroit by the organizers?
Does anyone have a less official one in mind?
Quote from: historyman on February 27, 2016, 07:18:31 AM
Quote from: wh on February 22, 2016, 12:58:24 PMI think it's important to remember that the "other schools" that have been perpetually bitching about the unfairness of the current format over the past couple of years are the same ones that unanimously voted for it in 2002 because the system they had at that time was "unfair." In fact, the powers that be proclaimed the double bye, top seed hosted format as highly progressive, ahead of its time, a future trendsetter, blah, blah, blah. Moreover, we weren't even a twinkle in our HL parent's eyes back then. By the time we came along, the league was fully entrenched in the system and as unfair as it seemed to us, we were simply told 'deal with it.' So, deal with it we did, with 4 championships in the past 5 years and 2 (working on 3) NCAA tournament appearances. So, the same cry baby programs come out of the woodwork once again and along with our "entitled" newbie with their entitled AD and entitled coach cry foul once again.
It should be obvious by now that these people aren't looking for equality of opportunity; they're looking for shortcuts to success to overcome their own ineptitude. I have zero sympathy for any of it. We earned what we have - the hard way, against long odds, by the rules they set up. We did it with hard work on the recruiting trail to recruit top-notch athletes of high character and moral standing, we did it with a superior coaching team with better leadership and X-and-0 skills, and we even did it with a better OOC scheduling strategy. But that's not what these people are looking for. They want a gimmick, a shortcut. At this point, all I care about is us winning this "neutral" tournament - preferably in front of 150 people - and going to the Big Dance. The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.
Maybe anger is the best political move. Maybe not.
As an anonymous observer on a sports message board with absolutely zero influence on any issue we discuss, I'm not overly concerned about choosing the best emotion to express frustration. That said, you should see me in action in a focus group where my opinion may count for something. I'm a master of diplomac articulation. ;)
We have Green Bay and Milwaukee on our side of the HL bracket. They are the highest seeds on our side and we will most likely see one of them.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2016/02/27/horizon-league-tournament-joe-louis-arena/81064742/ (http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2016/02/27/horizon-league-tournament-joe-louis-arena/81064742/)
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2016, 08:39:55 AM
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2016/02/27/horizon-league-tournament-joe-louis-arena/81064742/ (http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2016/02/27/horizon-league-tournament-joe-louis-arena/81064742/)
John Ciszewski, the executive vice president of sales for Olympia Entertainment, believes the tournament will make the city a "destination" in early March.What exactly is it about the HL tournament that will make Detroit a "destination" in the next five years? Only if Valpo shocks the world and gets to the Elite Eight/Final Four will more attention be paid to the HL tournament in Detroit. I guess every organization must have a goal and visualize that goal happening if there is any chance for that goal to actually happen.
Funny part of this is, if the new Red Wings arena and surrounding area take off and develop as they hope, they probably tell the HL to buzz off when the five year contract is done.
I'm cool with that. Then maybe Chicago will play host.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 29, 2016, 08:21:54 AMThen maybe Chicago will play host.
Shades of the '93-94 Mid-Con tournament at the Rosemont Arena...
Quote from: historyman on February 29, 2016, 07:38:55 AMJohn Ciszewski, the executive vice president of sales for Olympia Entertainment, believes the tournament will make the city a "destination" in early March.
I'm sure it will be a "destination" for up to dozens of people this weekend. Not sure that would make it a true "destination", but you have to start somewhere, right?
Quote from: historyman on February 29, 2016, 07:38:55 AMWhat exactly is it about the HL tournament that will make Detroit a "destination" in the next five years? Only if Valpo shocks the world and gets to the Elite Eight/Final Four will more attention be paid to the HL tournament in Detroit. I guess every organization must have a goal and visualize that goal happening if there is any chance for that goal to actually happen.
You would need not only Valpo getting to the NCAA Elite Eight, but also more HL teams (three at least?) in the top 50 of some ranking system (RPI, Sagarin, etc.). We need to have a good shot of more than one team making the NCAA tournament for several years. Not going to happen soon.
I think one of the biggest problems with the new format is that there's not really a clear advantage for the 1st seed compared to the 2nd seed. Valpo will probably play UWGB or UWM. Oakland will probably play Wright State or Detroit. There's not much difference between UWGB, UWM or Wright State - all have 17-12 records and similar RPIs. Finishing 2nd compared to 3rd place now is the more meaningful race, when in the past, finishing 1st was logically the most important feat.
Maybe this isn't even logically possible, but I think the Horizon should only do a single bye for the #2 seed. This would add another game for a theoretically decent team ($), and protect the #1 a bit more. Perhaps booting out the #10 team would also be helpful, as their horrible RPI would stop being another hit to the opponent's opponent record.
Also looked at other conferences - The MAC revamped their neutral site tournament in 2012 after 2010 and 2011 saw 6 and 9 seed winners. They moved to a graduated bye system where the top 2 seeds got a triple bye, while the top 4 got a double bye. In 2012, the 3 seed Ohio Bobcats won over the 1 seed, and then went on to the sweet 16 - so a really good team was still capable of winning their tournament. In 2013, 2014, and 2015 they've gone 1 vs 2.
How many are they allowing in each school's student section? Is the University planning anything to get a decent number of students there? I realize it is spring break, but they should spend a little money to get kids there. (extreme discounted hotel, travel, food, etc.) It would take a hell of a lot of organization, but as a college student I would have enjoyed a neutral court tournament. Couple nights in a hotel in a city with some decent bars.
Looks like 150 behind the baskets, for games involving your team. But, probably an unlimited number can get discounted, $10, tickets which are good for general admission when your team isn't playing (or if those 150 fill up when your team is playing).
I've not heard anything about an organized effort for Valpo students, in general. I'm not sure how they're communicating this year - the ValparaiZone facebook page seems dormant, and twitter almost so. http://valpo.socialfanrewards.com/ (http://valpo.socialfanrewards.com/) might still be going this fall - I'm not sure.
The pep band will be there.
Quote from: talksalot on February 29, 2016, 09:01:36 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 29, 2016, 08:21:54 AMThen maybe Chicago will play host.
Shades of the '93-94 Mid-Con tournament at the Rosemont Arena...
Funny---the name of that arena in Rosemont back then was the Rosemont
Horizon. Now it's All-State Arena currently the home of DePaul and the Chicago Wolves (the Blues minor league team). DePaul is moving to the new Arena at McCormick Place in the future.
Will there be a fanfest?
Stoyka: "We will be having fan activities on the day of the championship at the Marriott Wintergarden, with a send-off/pep rally for the competing teams."
There will be a pep rally as we had in the days of the Mid-Con tourney.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 29, 2016, 06:23:13 PMIs the University planning anything to get a decent number of students there?
A little slow to get started - you might have hoped they'd get the word out before folks left campus. But, it's something:
[tweet]704725415823331328[/tweet]
We seem to be doing an ok job selling our section for the Horizon League Tournament Semifinals. It looks like we only have 3 more rows in our section 122 not sold on the Motor City Madness Website. (Although I bet some lower rows/seats in our section are still available through the Valpo Alumni block...) Given that section 122 holds just under 300 seats, plus the student section, pep band, team, coaches, etc., it looks like the Valpo supporters number about 450-500 at the moment for Monday night... (compared to 4500+ at the ARC...)
Meanwhile...it looks like Oakland has 1 row and a few random seats remaining for their section in 121, but I'm sure their numbers will increase with time, although I am surprised that Oakland's section has not sold out yet. Looking through all of the other team allotments, it seems like everyone else is in the "wait and see" mode for the semis, with many of the other teams still having seats as low as rows 2 and 3 of their sections available on the HL website. It is painful for all parties to see how good/bad attendance will be for this event, as it will not be 100% known until next Monday at 9pm or so, but so far it is looking pretty bleak.
Also, recently announced and promoted in some news articles, there will be a fan fest/pep rally of sorts in the late afternoon before the championship on Tuesday. (http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/visitor-info/wintergarden (http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/visitor-info/wintergarden)) Not sure how this will turn out...
Quote from: agibson on March 01, 2016, 12:15:10 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 29, 2016, 06:23:13 PMIs the University planning anything to get a decent number of students there?
A little slow to get started - you might have hoped they'd get the word out before folks left campus. But, it's something:
[tweet]704725415823331328[/tweet]
Seems like it is a little late to start incentiveising (is that a proper use of the word?) students to go to Detroit as part of their spring break plans. How many students do you think we will have in attendance? It does not sound like we will have very many and it doesn't sound like the University is really pushing the importance of them being there either. Kinda sad if you ask me.
What about Tevonn/Skara? Any updates on health?
That tweet was not the first push towards students to get tickets.
Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 02, 2016, 11:48:57 PMWe seem to be doing an ok job selling our section for the Horizon League Tournament Semifinals. It looks like we only have 3 more rows in our section 122 not sold on the Motor City Madness Website. (Although I bet some lower rows/seats in our section are still available through the Valpo Alumni block...) Given that section 122 holds just under 300 seats, plus the student section, pep band, team, coaches, etc., it looks like the Valpo supporters number about 450-500 at the moment for Monday night... (compared to 4500+ at the ARC...) Meanwhile...it looks like Oakland has 1 row and a few random seats remaining for their section in 121, but I'm sure their numbers will increase with time, although I am surprised that Oakland's section has not sold out yet. Looking through all of the other team allotments, it seems like everyone else is in the "wait and see" mode for the semis, with many of the other teams still having seats as low as rows 2 and 3 of their sections available on the HL website. It is painful for all parties to see how good/bad attendance will be for this event, as it will not be 100% known until next Monday at 9pm or so, but so far it is looking pretty bleak. Also, recently announced and promoted in some news articles, there will be a fan fest/pep rally of sorts in the late afternoon before the championship on Tuesday. (http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/visitor-info/wintergarden (http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/visitor-info/wintergarden)) Not sure how this will turn out...
Oakland will have a bunch of fans in other parts of the arena as well...there have been a ton of discount codes through Ticketmaster, and I know of several fans who have bought tickets that way to save money. I hope the official Oakland section fills up, of course, along with the official Valpo section and sections for the other two semifinalists, but I'm sure there will be plenty of fans who opted for the cheaper general admission seats and will be scattered elsewhere. I'm afraid the 9:30 start Monday for the Oakland game could keep away a lot of casual fans from the general public and/or fans who live farther away (like 45+ minutes from Detroit). Too close to want to spend the money for a hotel, but too far to just head down there and then head back after the game. The random basketball fans are the X factor in my opinion, and I just don't know how many are going to stay there until 11:30 or midnight on a Monday night...especially when they can watch on TV. Hopefully the Valpo game will get a good crowd with the 7:00 start, and Olympia and the Horizon League have to be hoping Detroit makes it to the semis to get a good number of people at the 9:30 game (which should also mean a decent crowd for the finals if either Oakland or Detroit is playing).
The fan fest/pep rally thing is a really cool idea, but I think it'll actually be better attended by fans of any team(s) other than Oakland or Detroit playing in the finals. If you're in the finals and have made the trip, staying in a hotel Monday night with time to kill Tuesday, it's perfect for you. But if Oakland or Detroit makes the finals, I imagine most of their fans will be working Tuesday and will just head down there after work, likely after that 4:00-5:30 time slot. So I wouldn't expect it to have really high attendance, but it should be a pretty cool event. GM is headquartered in that building, and there are other businesses as well, so maybe some random people will stop by on their way out of work or whatever. They had some stuff going on in that location the week before Detroit hosted Super Bowl XL, and I was down there for something else and stopped by for a few minutes just to check it out (I think it was the media center). Obviously this is on a much smaller scale, but hopefully there will be some random stragglers not affiliated with any of the HL schools.
The Valpo fan gathering really sounds great and much better(and much more expensive) than other teams. A very nice dinner and club level seating. $55 but that includes the ticket to the game or you can stay in the club and watch the game from there! Sure wish I could be there!!
Saw on one board a couple people trying to band their student sections together and cheer against us...I think that's cute. I think Valpo wins both games by no less than 12 points.
Quote from: HC on March 03, 2016, 08:35:28 AM
Saw on one board a couple people trying to band their student sections together and cheer against us...I think that's cute. I think Valpo wins both games by no less than 12 points.
Horizon League: 15 seed or bust!
Quote from: a3uge on March 03, 2016, 09:00:16 AM
Quote from: HC on March 03, 2016, 08:35:28 AM
Saw on one board a couple people trying to band their student sections together and cheer against us...I think that's cute. I think Valpo wins both games by no less than 12 points.
Horizon League: 15 seed or bust!
It's an individual school thing. Better a 15 seed than no seed at all.
Quote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 08:10:21 AMthere have been a ton of discount codes through Ticketmaster, and I know of several fans who have bought tickets that way to save money.
The best I google trivially is Ticketmaster code TMN241 good for 2-for-1 seats for the upper-level, general admission. So, $15 for two seasons, for any one of the four days.
But, with Ticketmaster fees it looks like $12.50 a ticket, $25 for the two.
I think I'll be happy with my $20, no fee, ticket through VU alumni. But, they risk a certain "workers in the vineyard" problem. But, I'm sure they'd rather fill up the stadium, and perhaps deal with a few disgruntled fans.
The head of Olympia Entertainment had a video on the Free Press web page, recent video one assumes, saying that they were hoping for 30-40k fans over the four days. We'll see about that...
Quote from: agibson on March 03, 2016, 11:21:58 AMQuote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 08:10:21 AMthere have been a ton of discount codes through Ticketmaster, and I know of several fans who have bought tickets that way to save money.
The best I google trivially is Ticketmaster code TMN241 good for 2-for-1 seats for the upper-level, general admission. So, $15 for two seasons, for any one of the four days. But, with Ticketmaster fees it looks like $12.50 a ticket, $25 for the two. I think I'll be happy with my $20, no fee, ticket through VU alumni. But, they risk a certain "workers in the vineyard" problem. But, I'm sure they'd rather fill up the stadium, and perhaps deal with a few disgruntled fans. The head of Olympia Entertainment had a video on the Free Press web page, recent video one assumes, saying that they were hoping for 30-40k fans over the four days. We'll see about that...
Maybe saying "a ton" was a bit generous haha, but I've seen a few different codes over the past few weeks. I also got my tickets in advance through my school, with no Ticketmaster fees. So I didn't pay too much attention to those codes or check to see how unique the deals behind the different codes were...maybe the codes I saw all led to the same deal. There was also a groupon for a $17 upper bowl ticket plus t-shirt ($40 value). I did see that the flex tickets (10 general admission coupons good for any day of the tournament) can be upgraded to lower bowl reserved for $5 per session/day. Hopefully that will help fill in some of the unused lower bowl seats. I'm also curious how strict the ushers will be. For example, if UIC loses Saturday, will random people be able to move into those seats from the upper bowl on Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday? I imagined unsold seats in the fan blocks will be opened up for sale to the general public once fan block ticket sales conclude tomorrow night. Hopefully they'll be dynamic with that stuff to maximize the number of people in the lower bowl without imposing on people who purchased specific seats in advance.
Safe travels to all of the Valpo fans making the trip up here!
Quote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 01:16:12 PM
Quote from: agibson on March 03, 2016, 11:21:58 AMQuote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 08:10:21 AMthere have been a ton of discount codes through Ticketmaster, and I know of several fans who have bought tickets that way to save money.
The best I google trivially is Ticketmaster code TMN241 good for 2-for-1 seats for the upper-level, general admission. So, $15 for two seasons, for any one of the four days. But, with Ticketmaster fees it looks like $12.50 a ticket, $25 for the two. I think I'll be happy with my $20, no fee, ticket through VU alumni. But, they risk a certain "workers in the vineyard" problem. But, I'm sure they'd rather fill up the stadium, and perhaps deal with a few disgruntled fans. The head of Olympia Entertainment had a video on the Free Press web page, recent video one assumes, saying that they were hoping for 30-40k fans over the four days. We'll see about that...
Maybe saying "a ton" was a bit generous haha, but I've seen a few different codes over the past few weeks. I also got my tickets in advance through my school, with no Ticketmaster fees. So I didn't pay too much attention to those codes or check to see how unique the deals behind the different codes were...maybe the codes I saw all led to the same deal. There was also a groupon for a $17 upper bowl ticket plus t-shirt ($40 value). I did see that the flex tickets (10 general admission coupons good for any day of the tournament) can be upgraded to lower bowl reserved for $5 per session/day. Hopefully that will help fill in some of the unused lower bowl seats. I'm also curious how strict the ushers will be. For example, if UIC loses Saturday, will random people be able to move into those seats from the upper bowl on Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday? I imagined unsold seats in the fan blocks will be opened up for sale to the general public once fan block ticket sales conclude tomorrow night. Hopefully they'll be dynamic with that stuff to maximize the number of people in the lower bowl without imposing on people who purchased specific seats in advance.
Safe travels to all of the Valpo fans making the trip up here!
Thanks for posting. Can you give us a feel for how this tourney is being received by the general population of Detroit? Do you expect thousands of fans from your school? How about Oakland? thanks!
Quote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 01:16:12 PMI did see that the flex tickets (10 general admission coupons good for any day of the tournament) can be upgraded to lower bowl reserved for $5 per session/day.
Yeah, this one looked like a pretty good arrangement, in the early going.
Quote from: vu72 on March 03, 2016, 01:30:32 PMThanks for posting. Can you give us a feel for how this tourney is being received by the general population of Detroit? Do you expect thousands of fans from your school? How about Oakland? thanks!
No problem. I'm an Oakland fan (not a UDM fan), so I can speak from an Oakland perspective. I hope there will be a good Oakland crowd Monday night...however, I think it will be tempered somewhat by the late start. I know some people with kids will have issues getting babysitters, some who have kids with activities on weeknights, and others who have to work Tuesday and don't want to operate on 4 or 5 hours of sleep with the potential of going back down there again Tuesday night. I imagine there are some who don't want to spend the money for two games plus parking (parking fees could be a factor for some of the locals), and will just wait and go Tuesday if Oakland wins Monday. I took vacation days so I have no issues with the late start, but I know a lot of people don't have that luxury.
I'm really not sure what to expect on Monday...it could be 2,000 or it could be 4,000. The opponent will be a factor, with more people deciding to go last minute if it's another game against UDM. I'm sure the Oakland contingent would be bigger regardless of opponent if Oakland played on a Friday night, Saturday, or Sunday. I do think if Oakland wins Monday, there will be a lot more fans there Tuesday due to the added interest of a final plus a more manageable weeknight start time of 7:00. Also, keep in mind that our record attendance at home is 4,114 (set last Friday against UDM), so even bringing our record crowd is still just around 20% of JLA's capacity. The school has been pushing it pretty heavily to students, season ticket holders, and other fans who have come to the O'rena, as well on social media. The athletics department purchased something like 400 all-session passes for students, so hopefully they'll actually get down there and use them.
As far as UDM goes, I'm speculating that they'll have a decent crowd Saturday as it's a 7:30 tip, and I imagine they'll have a lot of fans down there Sunday, too, if they win Saturday. Their Sunday game would be at 3:30 and should give their fans plenty of time to go to church, do family stuff, etc., then head to the game and still get out in time for dinner and a couple of hours of relaxation Sunday evening. And if they make it to the semis, Monday should draw a lot of people. I know a lot of Oakland fans live 20-50 miles north of Detroit in the outer group of suburbs, with travel times to JLA of maybe 30-60 minutes. I'm not sure about UDM fans though...if they live closer to the actual city, it should be easier for them to get down there on multiple days.
There has been a good amount of advertising on the local TV and radio stations, and I've heard radio ads on a variety of formats (not just sports stations). I just don't know how much the casual basketball fan in metro Detroit cares though, especially for the Monday and Tuesday games. This is B1G country for hoops as well as football, and unfortunately I think the Horizon League is an afterthought to all but the most diehard college hoops fans who don't have a tie to an HL school. But if there's an Oakland vs UDM matchup on Monday, it could draw some casual fans, as well as on Tuesday if one of those schools makes the finals. There have definitely been advertising efforts, and I'd love to see this be a success...but I think the Saturday-Tuesday format, including having a game on Monday at 9:30, is tough for a neutral site (even with two local schools). I have no idea what to expect from the general population of Detroit, but I do think they'll be a big factor one way or the other. I think there are a lot of unknowns, but I know Olympia Entertainment is very committed to this, and I'm sure they'll work to continuously improve the tournament. They have a lot of experience with the Red Wings and concerts, but they also have senior-level leaders who worked for the Pistons/Palace Sports and Entertainment for a long time including the stretch from about 2003-2008 when the Pistons made the Eastern Conference finals several seasons in a row and had a long sellout streak.
The Horizon League Tournament Court is all put together at Joe Louis Arena and it seems that things are almost ready for Saturday. Here are some photos and a time lapse all retweeted or sent out from the Horizon League Twitter Account.
[tweet]705350758972182528[/tweet]
[tweet]705394868118491137[/tweet]
[tweet]705453676656087040[/tweet]
[tweet]705541970324824064[/tweet]
[tweet]705508979913396224[/tweet]
[tweet]705503011892805632[/tweet]
Anyone else notice the Oakland Black and Detroit Red color scheme for the court? Is that just a coincidence?
The Valpo Section is the section behind the Geico Banner in the first photo and the Oakland section is to the left of Valpo's section and is behind the Discover Banner... Glad I will be on the other aisle... way too close to the bear's cage there. ;)
The student sections (and band?) seating on the floor doesn't look all that great for both watching the game and distracting the competition.
I think that the court and venue look very nice although it isn't the cozy ARC. And I will say that I am growing excited for the event. I remain optimistic that it will be a final validation stamp for our team and I am hopeful that it is a good atmosphere for all who attend. I have the hotel, tickets, etc. all set and I will be giving this tourney a fair chance.
I heard Oakland is so excited about Motor city, they are spending their $20k on a real live grizzly and caging it at Joe Louis.
Correct me if I'm wrong but when they were in the Mid-con the tourney was being held at Tulsa and Sioux Falls. Then once in the HL it was 4 hours away in Valpo. Of course they are overly excited.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 03, 2016, 09:16:49 PM
I heard Oakland is so excited about Motor city, they are spending their $20k on a real live grizzly and caging it at Joe Louis.
Correct me if I'm wrong but when they were in the Mid-con the tourney was mbeing held at Tulsa and Sioux Falls. Then once in the HL it was 4 hours away in Valpo. Of course they are overly excited.
Why wouldn't Oakland be "overly excited?" They have received the Horizon League's equivalent of God's grace, otherwise known as unmerited favor.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 29, 2016, 06:23:13 PM
How many are they allowing in each school's student section? Is the University planning anything to get a decent number of students there? I realize it is spring break, but they should spend a little money to get kids there. (extreme discounted hotel, travel, food, etc.) It would take a hell of a lot of organization, but as a college student I would have enjoyed a neutral court tournament. Couple nights in a hotel in a city with some decent bars.
VU students don't support the team, very well, at home games, so why do you think they will attend this tourney?
I would guarantee that, by percentage of students, Valpo easily has the best student support of any of the 10 Horizon League schools on average.
^^^ truth^^^
FWIW - Horizon League colors on the HL website are gray and a medium orange. DETROIT Is very prominent across the end lines instead of "Horizon League" (which is less prominent in the FT lanes and less so in the center court logo). Otherwise looks nice and "neutral. "
Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 03, 2016, 08:08:19 PM
The Horizon League Tournament Court is all put together at Joe Louis Arena and it seems that things are almost ready for Saturday. Here are some photos and a time lapse all retweeted or sent out from the Horizon League Twitter Account.
[tweet]705350758972182528[/tweet]
[tweet]705394868118491137[/tweet]
[tweet]705453676656087040[/tweet]
[tweet]705541970324824064[/tweet]
[tweet]705508979913396224[/tweet]
[tweet]705503011892805632[/tweet]
Anyone else notice the Oakland Black and Detroit Red color scheme for the court? Is that just a coincidence?
The Valpo Section is the section behind the Geico Banner in the first photo and the Oakland section is to the left of Valpo's section and is behind the Discover Banner... Glad I will be on the other aisle... way too close to the bear's cage there. ;)
The student sections (and band?) seating on the floor doesn't look all that great for both watching the game and distracting the competition.
I think that the court and venue look very nice although it isn't the cozy ARC. And I will say that I am growing excited for the event. I remain optimistic that it will be a final validation stamp for our team and I am hopeful that it is a good atmosphere for all who attend. I have the hotel, tickets, etc. all set and I will be giving this tourney a fair chance.
Quote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 01:16:12 PMSafe travels to all of the Valpo fans making the trip up here!
I thought this was a
neutral tournament. Shouldn't that be "making the trip up
there?" ;)
Quote from: bbtds on March 04, 2016, 05:13:47 AMQuote from: mb230611 on March 03, 2016, 01:16:12 PMSafe travels to all of the Valpo fans making the trip up here!
I thought this was a neutral tournament. Shouldn't that be "making the trip up there?" ;)
Touche!
Did you say live bear and Kampe is going to wrestle it at half time? Now that might beat Red Panda!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GnPt3RIIsA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GnPt3RIIsA)
Anyone know the status on T. Walker and Skara?
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 04, 2016, 08:37:19 AM
Anyone know the status on T. Walker and Skara?
Why do I get the feeling that, because it will force the opponents to game-plan differently, we won't get an answer until game time?
Quote from: valpo84 on March 04, 2016, 08:27:19 AMDid you say live bear and Kampe is going to wrestle it at half time?
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 04, 2016, 08:37:19 AMAnyone know the status on T. Walker and Skara?
Rumored that Skara and Walker even if not basketball ready will be permitted to act as corner men for the Kampe- Grizzly bear halftime wrestling event. :thumbsup:
Wait ??? Maybe 3 against 1 is a little unfair even though Kampe deserves it.
Via Twitter: Neither Skara or Tevonn have practiced this week. Tevonn still has a very noticeable limp. Does not sound promising for Monday.
I am not sure we will win 2 games in 2 days without them. Nickerson and Jubril will be the only bench players we have that have played significant minutes the last half of the year.
Time for Max to return to the backup point guard?
Paul Oren tweeted Tevonn Walker was on the court shooting during the portion of practice that was open to the media.
Also tweeted Drew was political when topic of tourney away from Valpo came up: "it's hard probably to please all 10 teams." "It's something new"
I wonder what he really thinks?
Quote from: justducky on March 04, 2016, 11:12:34 AMRumored that Skara and Walker even if not basketball ready will be permitted to act as corner men for the Kampe- Grizzly bear halftime wrestling event.
Wait! Maybe if we throw Jon LeCrone in that cage instead of Kampe it will be a standing room only sellout! Suddenly I could put together a chartered busload even if Valpo had already been eliminated. :thumbsup:
Quote from: justducky on March 04, 2016, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 04, 2016, 11:12:34 AMRumored that Skara and Walker even if not basketball ready will be permitted to act as corner men for the Kampe- Grizzly bear halftime wrestling event.
Wait! Maybe if we throw Jon LeCrone in that cage instead of Kampe it will be a standing room only sellout! Suddenly I could put together a chartered busload even if Valpo had already been eliminated. :thumbsup:
That might get Olympia Entertainment the ticket sales needed to break even!
Quote from: covufan on March 04, 2016, 02:02:35 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 04, 2016, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 04, 2016, 11:12:34 AMRumored that Skara and Walker even if not basketball ready will be permitted to act as corner men for the Kampe- Grizzly bear halftime wrestling event.
Wait! Maybe if we throw Jon LeCrone in that cage instead of Kampe it will be a standing room only sellout! Suddenly I could put together a chartered busload even if Valpo had already been eliminated. :thumbsup:
That might get Olympia Entertainment the ticket sales needed to break even!
Time for LeCrone to earn his money by taking one for the team!
Breaking News: Horizon League already planning ahead of potential attendance concerns this weekend and has curtained off the TV friendly half of the upper deck. See photo in the Tweet below.
[tweet]705853522638536704[/tweet]
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 04, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
Paul Oren tweeted Tevonn Walker was on the court shooting during the portion of practice that was open to the media.
Also tweeted Drew was political when topic of tourney away from Valpo came up: "it's hard probably to please all 10 teams." "It's something new"
I wonder what he really thinks?
I had dinner this evening with some other season ticket holders at a half empty restaurant in Valparaiso. Discussion centered around the tournament this weekend in Detroit, and the restaurant manager joined our conversation. Comparing notes, we tried to figure how much has been stolen from Valpo's economy by the Horizon League change of tournament venue, and the estimated numbers were disheartening, especially when considering the absence of business for restaurants, hotels, gas stations, and local stores. It also was noted that potential business from tournament attendees nicely would have filled some of the economic gap left by students out of town for spring break. In addition, talk focused on the lost opportunity of university and community goodwill connection that the tournament presented in past years, as well as the national exposure for Valparaiso University with a filled and loud ARC on ESPN, which additionally could help with recruiting. Some of the comments expressed resentment that the Crusaders had an earned home court advantage taken away, and there was speculation about the possible negative consequence. The season ticket holders, none of whom are traveling to Detroit for various reasons but would have attended all games if the tournament were at the ARC, are not fans of the Horizon League, to put it mildly. In fact, nobody could find a positive point to include, and I can report none of the bluntly stated opinions were as diplomatic as Bryce's quote.
I actually don't have much of a problem with the tourney moving, but the suddenness and location to which it was moved does feel like a middle finger and/or response to our MVC flirtation. If HL came out last year and said they were moving the tournament to the new arena in Detroit when it opens, and would spend a couple of years building up media exposure and interest, it could be a success. They lucked out this year by Oakland getting the two seed and (likely) making the championship game. If and combo of Valpo, WSU, and the Wisconsin schools were to be in the championship we'd be in Kemper Arena level emptiness.
Valpo needs to get out of the Horizon -- too much imbalance in the conference, and the leadership sucks. At this stage the Valley would be a better fit.
I wouldn't go to a tournament in Detroit unless someone paid for me to get there, for the hotel and for the tickets. And I was able to take off work without taking vacation days.
Not gonna happen. I'll enjoy it on ESPNU and ESPN. Plus, I could care less what happens today.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2016, 08:13:16 AMI actually don't have much of a problem with the tourney moving, but the suddenness and location to which it was moved does feel like a middle finger and/or response to our MVC flirtation. If HL came out last year and said they were moving the tournament to the new arena in Detroit when it opens, and would spend a couple of years building up media exposure and interest, it could be a success. They lucked out this year by Oakland getting the two seed and (likely) making the championship game. If and combo of Valpo, WSU, and the Wisconsin schools were to be in the championship we'd be in Kemper Arena level emptiness.
(apologies if this point has been made in the past)
Another gripe I have is that the championship should be on Sunday, not Tuesday.
I've seen this in the MVC tournament: It's common that if an unexpected team springs an upset in the semis, a legion of fair-weather fans drop what they're doing and travel for the (Sunday) championship.
This is pretty much impossible with a Tuesday championship; adult fans have jobs, and 7 of 10 HL schools have class (Valpo, NKU and YSU are on spring break). The result is well-said above: "Kemper Arena-level emptiness."
By the by, I have my Horizon League Tournament bracket filled out. I'm predicting that an Oakland/Detroit matchup inspires local interest in the tournament.
Despite team injuries and the weight of the whole city of Detroit against them, Valpo scores on a put-back at the buzzer to beat Oakland 82-80.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 05, 2016, 09:11:34 AM
Valpo needs to get out of the Horizon -- too much imbalance in the conference, and the leadership sucks. At this stage the Valley would be a better fit.
Sounds good, but for all we know the same 10 teams could be sitting right where they are 10 or 20 years from now. I think we need to be more proactive than just sitting on the sideline hoping someone calls our number. We need to quietly work with 2 or 3 programs that share a common interest and explore the prospects of establishing an elite mid-major conference in the Midwest. Forget about trying to convince programs like DePaul to move down. That will never happen. Think about a footprint that includes Dayton to the east, Belmont and St. Louis to the south, Wichita State to the west, and Milwaukee to the north. Hold the conference tournament in no less than Chicago, get a big TV contract, start competing with 2nd tier majors in the Midwest for talent, and earn multiple bids to the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: Donjon VU07 on March 05, 2016, 10:49:10 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2016, 08:13:16 AMI actually don't have much of a problem with the tourney moving, but the suddenness and location to which it was moved does feel like a middle finger and/or response to our MVC flirtation. If HL came out last year and said they were moving the tournament to the new arena in Detroit when it opens, and would spend a couple of years building up media exposure and interest, it could be a success. They lucked out this year by Oakland getting the two seed and (likely) making the championship game. If and combo of Valpo, WSU, and the Wisconsin schools were to be in the championship we'd be in Kemper Arena level emptiness.
(apologies if this point has been made in the past)
Another gripe I have is that the championship should be on Sunday, not Tuesday.
I've seen this in the MVC tournament: It's common that if an unexpected team springs an upset in the semis, a legion of fair-weather fans drop what they're doing and travel for the (Sunday) championship.
This is pretty much impossible with a Tuesday championship; adult fans have jobs, and 7 of 10 HL schools have class (Valpo, NKU and YSU are on spring break). The result is well-said above: "Kemper Arena-level emptiness."
By the by, I have my Horizon League Tournament bracket filled out. I'm predicting that an Oakland/Detroit matchup inspires local interest in the tournament.
Despite team injuries and the weight of the whole city of Detroit against them, Valpo scores on a put-back at the buzzer to beat Oakland 82-80.
ok here at the Joe Lewis and as much as I wanted to host the tournament semis and finals, I have to say the amenities are pretty awesome
Like your thinking, wh.
Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 04, 2016, 05:53:14 PMBreaking News: Horizon League already planning ahead of potential attendance concerns this weekend and has curtained off the TV friendly half of the upper deck. See photo in the Tweet below.
Yeah, not sure why they put it on that side. I'm sure the cameras will stay away from it, but a bit strange.
It was advertised in advance, at least earlier this week.
Quote from: frontrowfan on March 05, 2016, 11:13:55 AMok here at the Joe Lewis and as much as I wanted to host the tournament semis and finals, I have to say the amenities are pretty awesome
Details? I wasn't so impressed by UIC...
I just don't understand why the Horizon switched THIS year. I don't understand why NKU joined THIS year. The league was incredibly short-sighted and completely sold their best program out. They knew NKU wasn't eligible yet and would be a big RPI drain this year. They knew Valpo returned pretty much their whole team and would have a great chance at winning a tournament game - better than any team in the near future. They knew they wouldn't be able to switch the TV contract and move the games to Sunday THIS year. It's just amazing how much this conference regressed, despite having a massive cash flow from Butler's back to back finals run. What the heck did they do with that money?
But a new mid major conference isn't going to magically spawn out of nowhere. We're not going to the A10, ever. We may get an MVC invite if Wichita State bolts, or they decide to add 2 teams, but I really doubt it. For the foreseeable future, we're going to be in the Horizon - there's no quick fix available.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2016, 08:13:16 AM
I actually don't have much of a problem with the tourney moving, but the suddenness and location to which it was moved does feel like a middle finger and/or response to our MVC flirtation. If HL came out last year and said they were moving the tournament to the new arena in Detroit when it opens, and would spend a couple of years building up media exposure and interest, it could be a success. They lucked out this year by Oakland getting the two seed and (likely) making the championship game. If and combo of Valpo, WSU, and the Wisconsin schools were to be in the championship we'd be in Kemper Arena level emptiness.
I wholeheartedly agree with the suddenness point. And to a degree with the Detroit location. It was like it was sprung on the the rest of the league and it happened less than a year after last year's final. Major moves like this should have a transition period that allows schools and fans to adjust. I am not stubbornly against a centrally located neutral site for the HLT, but to suddenly hang a 90 degree turn with out putting your turn signal on is not good form. So to me it is more about the flawed process -- which points to leadership (or lack thereof). Why didn't the league announce in advance it wanted to go to a neutral site - shouldn't all members first have a say in that decision? Why weren't other arenas and locations solicited to compete for the rights? Why was this done under the cover of darkness? Was someone paid off? It's a done deal now but these are questions that have not really been answered other than the opportunity arose (out of nowhere) and we jumped at it -- like what other conference would have slid in before the HL?
Quote from: wh on March 05, 2016, 10:53:58 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 05, 2016, 09:11:34 AM
Valpo needs to get out of the Horizon -- too much imbalance in the conference, and the leadership sucks. At this stage the Valley would be a better fit.
Sounds good, but for all we know the same 10 teams could be sitting right where they are 10 or 20 years from now. I think we need to be more proactive than just sitting on the sideline hoping someone calls our number. We need to quietly work with 2 or 3 programs that share a common interest and explore the prospects of establishing an elite mid-major conference in the Midwest. Forget about trying to convince programs like DePaul to move down. That will never happen. Think about a footprint that includes Dayton to the east, Belmont and St. Louis to the south, Wichita State to the west, and Milwaukee to the north. Hold the conference tournament in no less than Chicago, get a big TV contract, start competing with 2nd tier majors in the Midwest for talent, and earn multiple bids to the NCAA tournament.
Good idea, but doubtful that this ever takes place. You would need simultaneous movement from at least four other conferences to do so. The only possibility of what you described occurring IMO would be if the MVFC football schools all moved en masse to FBS, and then bits and pieces of a private/public mix somehow came together from other conferences with what is left of the remainder of the MVC. With WAC football dead and buried, and unless the NCAA changes their rules on teams moving up to FBS from FCS, Elvis has left the building on that one.
You want a quick path out of the HL and to the MVC without major conference realignment right now? No problem. Somehow convince both the MVC and New Mexico State to make a move together so that the MVC takes NMSU for their oly sports, then hope that the MVC moves to 12 with eastern and western divisions, and then pray that Valpo is team #12. With Chicago State's issues, there may be a need for NMSU to gain stability somewhere else, considering too that they will likely be an FBS Indy in 2018. So go ahead and start making the calls to Las Cruces.
Now let's get back to watching the HL tournament.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 05, 2016, 11:57:57 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2016, 08:13:16 AM
I actually don't have much of a problem with the tourney moving, but the suddenness and location to which it was moved does feel like a middle finger and/or response to our MVC flirtation. If HL came out last year and said they were moving the tournament to the new arena in Detroit when it opens, and would spend a couple of years building up media exposure and interest, it could be a success. They lucked out this year by Oakland getting the two seed and (likely) making the championship game. If and combo of Valpo, WSU, and the Wisconsin schools were to be in the championship we'd be in Kemper Arena level emptiness.
I wholeheartedly agree with the suddenness point. And to a degree with the Detroit location. It was like it was sprung on the the rest of the league and it happened less than a year after last year's final. Major moves like this should have a transition period that allows schools and fans to adjust. I am not stubbornly against a centrally located neutral site for the HLT, but to suddenly hang a 90 degree turn with out putting your turn signal on is not good form. So to me it is more about the flawed process -- which points to leadership (or lack thereof). Why didn't the league announce in advance it wanted to go to a neutral site - shouldn't all members first have a say in that decision? Why weren't other arenas and locations solicited to compete for the rights? Why was this done under the cover of darkness? Was someone paid off? It's a done deal now but these are questions that have not really been answered other than the opportunity arose (out of nowhere) and we jumped at it -- like what other conference would have slid in before the HL?
I wonder if XYZ Entertainment (don't recall their name; doesn't matter) has an attendance-based "out" clause? Something like "If attendance at any session is less than the average attendance of a Chicago State home game, the 5-year contract is immediately null and void and the Horizon League agrees to pay XYZ Entertainment $5 Million for fraudulently misrepresenting the interest level people have in attending a mid-major tournament in a remote, high crime location, and where preliminary games are played over the weekend when 90% of the population is sitting at home, and where semi's and finals are played on weekdays when 90% of the population are working and have children in school."
WH, I'll bet that today will be the best attendance of the lot cuz you have 8 teams there on the day with their dozens of fans all in one place. So maybe the 90% claus might not kick in. Tomorrow and Monday there will only be 4 teams with their dozens (but a Detroit area team will be there for sure at least on Monday).
I'm currently at the uwm vs. Nku @ joe Louis pondering where they are going to put the grizz cage. Just watched CSu fans leave happy that season is finally behind them.
Biggest complaints about the tournament move.
1. It was done too quick
2. There wasn't a bid or look from other vendors
3. It's in Detroit.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 05, 2016, 02:12:24 PM
I'm currently at the uwm vs. Nku @ joe Louis pondering where they are going to put the grizz cage. Just watched CSu fans leave happy that season is finally behind them.
Biggest complaints about the tournament move.
1. It was done too quick
2. There wasn't a bid or look from other vendors
3. It's in Detroit.
Glad you agree with me and Nativecheezehead
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 05, 2016, 11:57:57 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2016, 08:13:16 AM
I actually don't have much of a problem with the tourney moving, but the suddenness and location to which it was moved does feel like a middle finger and/or response to our MVC flirtation. If HL came out last year and said they were moving the tournament to the new arena in Detroit when it opens, and would spend a couple of years building up media exposure and interest, it could be a success. They lucked out this year by Oakland getting the two seed and (likely) making the championship game. If and combo of Valpo, WSU, and the Wisconsin schools were to be in the championship we'd be in Kemper Arena level emptiness.
I wholeheartedly agree with the suddenness point. And to a degree with the Detroit location. It was like it was sprung on the the rest of the league and it happened less than a year after last year's final. Major moves like this should have a transition period that allows schools and fans to adjust. I am not stubbornly against a centrally located neutral site for the HLT, but to suddenly hang a 90 degree turn with out putting your turn signal on is not good form. So to me it is more about the flawed process -- which points to leadership (or lack thereof). Why didn't the league announce in advance it wanted to go to a neutral site - shouldn't all members first have a say in that decision? Why weren't other arenas and locations solicited to compete for the rights? Why was this done under the cover of darkness? Was someone paid off? It's a done deal now but these are questions that have not really been answered other than the opportunity arose (out of nowhere) and we jumped at it -- like what other conference would have slid in before the HL?
Well now we have Cheese with the Wine!!!! :)
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 05, 2016, 11:57:57 AMWhy didn't the league announce in advance it wanted to go to a neutral site - shouldn't all members first have a say in that decision?
Everybody got a vote, at least. Valpo and... I believe UIC... voted against it. The Wisconsin schools, perhaps a bit mysteriously, voted for it.
Quote from: agibson on March 05, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 05, 2016, 11:57:57 AMWhy didn't the league announce in advance it wanted to go to a neutral site - shouldn't all members first have a say in that decision?
Everybody got a vote, at least. Valpo and... I believe UIC... voted against it. The Wisconsin schools, perhaps a bit mysteriously, voted for it.
As I mentioned earlier, perhaps not so mysteriously for Green Bay.
5247 attendance....anybody buying that? Bet that includes all session passes which they will no doubt count for each day
Quote from: HC on March 05, 2016, 08:23:13 PMBet that includes all session passes which they will no doubt count for each day
And some of that really _is_ paid attendance!
I wonder what all it includes. Actual people that entered the gate, including any giveaways (school groups?). Any media who requested credentials. All ten teams and staffs? All all-session passes sold. Maybe some on consignment, too, with schools, or alumni groups, or Ticketmaster? A few pep bands. Who knows?
The number seems moderate enough that it could be some kind of calculus as above, and not just strictly made up.
Maybe 800 or so for the Wright State game? Couple thousand for Detroit? Maybe more?
Quote from: agibson on March 05, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 05, 2016, 11:57:57 AMWhy didn't the league announce in advance it wanted to go to a neutral site - shouldn't all members first have a say in that decision?
Everybody got a vote, at least. Valpo and... I believe UIC... voted against it. The Wisconsin schools, perhaps a bit mysteriously, voted for it.
Yeah, right. My point was the flawed process which should have been as follows: First question - Do we as a league want to go to a neutral site -- Yes/No? Members vote. If no, STOP. If yes, second question - Where to hold it? League office is instructed by its members to seek out bidders for the right to host. Third question - Who wins the rights? Select best package of those submitted. Members vote.
Instead, apparently without a process that the members were a part of, the membership was presented with a
fait accompli where all the proper steps were replaced by a take it or leave it proposition to the members from the league office.
Quote from: HC on March 05, 2016, 08:23:13 PM
5247 attendance....anybody buying that? Bet that includes all session passes which they will no doubt count for each day
From the people that were there, was there any game with more than 1500?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i think there were more than 1500 people there. maybe 3k when Detroit was playing.
I'm just not a fan of bball in the large arenas that aren't 90% filled. I don't care for the arenas that most of our universities in the HL have. I like the arc, Orena, Hinkle and the gym type facilities in the A10. I enjoy the facilities that make you feel that your on a campus. A gym not an arena (made for a concert, or another sport). cant beat a gym on campus almost filled to the top with screaming fans.
Watched the UNC /Duke game last night played at cozy crowded Cameron. Of all the venues in the HL only the ARC comes close to that incredible atmosphere.
Maybe 1,000 here watching Green Bay and uwm. Green Bay did not bring band or cheerleaders
Are we?
Pep band for sure (not sure about size), presumably cheerleaders.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 04, 2016, 12:23:57 PMAlso tweeted Drew was political when topic of tourney away from Valpo came up: "it's hard probably to please all 10 teams." "It's something new"
If Bryce was political he would talk about Kampe's small hands. ;)
It is pretty amazing that today, throughout the morning, Detroit's big 50M watt radio station WJR will occasionally mention on their periodic sports reports that today Oakland will play Wright State in a Horizon League semi final game tonight at 9:30. Not even 1 mention of Top-seeded VU playing in the first semi game tonight or mentioning the final will be played tomorrow night. And we should be surprised that attendance is so bad?
Currently sitting in The Joe. Tip off in two min. Don't care what any attendance figures say. No more than 1,000 here.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 08, 2016, 06:01:44 PM
Currently sitting in The Joe. Tip off in two min. Don't care what any attendance figures say. No more than 1,000 here.
If the game gets boring please do an exact count from your seat. Thanks ;D
VULB. You joke. I'm trying. Decent size groups of locals trickling in. Lots of Lions jerseys and Tigers hats. I'd say we're at about 1600 now.
Fans starting to file out. I'll post general reactions later but one thought keeps going through my head:
You play your tournament at a neutral site BECAUSE you're a two bid league, not to BECOME a two bid league.
word is that Detroit Mercy will be playing University of Michigan at the Joe next year.
The league is soliciting feedback from folks who attended
https://www.facebook.com/HorizonLeague/posts/10153397846620079 (https://www.facebook.com/HorizonLeague/posts/10153397846620079)
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/16MCMFan (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/16MCMFan)