OK... quite a game in Milwaukee... now it's time to put away Carrington Love and Jordan Fouse on their Senior Day in Green Bay.
UIC gave them fits Friday night, before they put out the flames late ...here's the recap
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20160226_ILLCHI@WISGB (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20160226_ILLCHI@WISGB)
and their box score
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/boxscore/NCAAB_20160226_ILLCHI@WISGB (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/boxscore/NCAAB_20160226_ILLCHI@WISGB)
and here's the recap of the 15-point win last month in the ARC:
http://valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/15164/crusaders-continue-run-take-down-green-bay/#.VtGbWMv2Y5s (http://valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/15164/crusaders-continue-run-take-down-green-bay/#.VtGbWMv2Y5s)
Valpo opens up a 3.5 point favorite on the road... just like Friday night.
Phoenix are 11-2 at home this year, losing to Toledo and Oakland. Best win of the season, #51 Akron
And a reminder of the incident last fall...
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2015/11/06/uwgb-guard-faces-weapons-charge/75295758/ (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2015/11/06/uwgb-guard-faces-weapons-charge/75295758/)
and I get a kick out of the picture they chose to accompany the story... Looks like Skara schooled him on this one!
Valpo wins another road game by double digits, 74-64.
Did Skara go through warm ups at all pre game? Imagine they'll just rest him til next Monday.
Quote from: talksalot on February 27, 2016, 06:50:12 AMValpo opens up a 3.5 point favorite on the road... just like Friday night.
Pretty narrow line for a high-scoring opponent.
ESPN shows us opening as 6 point road favorites. Different lines from different places?
Stuck around MKE today, enjoying a nice weekend with some great friends and will be making the trek up to Green Bay tomorrow. Hoping to do the Lambeau tour before the game!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Quote from: HailVU2014 on February 27, 2016, 03:24:27 PMDifferent lines from different places?
Nolan still shows 3.5 point favorite
Vegas Insider Line Movements:
02/27 10:50am VALPAR-5
02/27 11:10am VALPAR-4.5
02/27 1:40pm VALPAR-6
Hmm. Maybe ESPN starts the "open" 24 hrs before the game start?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Beautiful weekend in WI by raveled from Milwaukee to Green Bay this morning. Stopped for lunch at Longhorn and our team was there having lunch too! Powering up for a win tomorrow
Tomorrow will be very tough, but with a win we will be 16-2 (88.9%) in HL play. A look back at conference champ records.
2015 - Valpo 16-2 (88.9%)
2014 - Valpo 13-3 (81.2%)
2013 - Green Bay 14-2 (87.5%)
2012 - Valpo 13-3 (81.2%)
2011 - Valpo 14-4 (77.8%)
2010 - CSU 13-5 (72.2%)
2009 - Butler 18-0 (100%)
2008 - Butler 15-3 (83.3%)
2007 - Butler 16-2 (88.9%)
2006 - Butler 13-3 (81.2%)
2005 - UWM 12-4 (75%)
2004 - UWM 14-2 (87.5%)
2003 - UWM 13-3 (81.2%)
2002 - Butler 14-2 (87.5%)
2001 - Butler 12-4 (75%)
In the last 15 years, 5 different programs have won the season title. Butler 6, Valpo 4, UWM 3, CSU 1, Green Bay 1.
2007/2008 was our first year so we have been in the league for 9 years and won 4 season titles.
Line Movements from the Vegas Insider Consensus
02/27 10:50am VALPAR-5
02/27 11:10am VALPAR-4.5
02/27 1:40pm VALPAR-6
02/27 6:15pm VALPAR-6
02/27 6:20pm VALPAR-6 Over Under 150.5
02/27 7:10pm VALPAR-5.5 Over Under 150.5
and the other HL game tomorrow...
02/27 10:50am WISCMI-18.5
02/27 1:40pm WISCMI-18
02/27 6:15pm WISCMI-17 Over Under 142.5
02/27 8:20pm WISCMI-17.5 Over Under 142.5
Green Bay is not playing for any placement in the conference tournament and it is Senior Day at Green Bay. Additionally, Green Bay has been playing pretty high scoring games, so I would expect this game to be in the 80s with lots of flow and open play. Key to Valpo winning will be playing good defense to get Green Bay out of their comfort zone and reducing their rate of good possessions (something Valpo has done pretty well all year).
Valpo 86 Green Bay 80
Lots of people watching this game in Vegas...
Consolidated line movements
27-Feb 10:50am VALPAR 5
27-Feb 11:10am VALPAR 4.5
27-Feb 1:40pm VALPAR 6
27-Feb 6:15pm VALPAR 6
27-Feb 6:20pm VALPAR 6
27-Feb 7:10pm VALPAR 5.5
27-Feb 11:20pm VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 4:50am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 6:15am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 7:00am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 7:20am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 7:30am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 8:15am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 8:20am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 9:50am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 10:05am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 10:25am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 10:30am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 10:30am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 10:40am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 10:55am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 11:30am VALPAR 5.5
28-Feb 11:35am VALPAR 5.5
I would love to see the Saders win another tough, close game against Woogie Boogie. This will further prepare them for the Horizon tourney.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 28, 2016, 12:49:52 PM
I would love to see the Saders win another tough, close game against Woogie Boogie. This will further prepare them for the Horizon tourney.
Our biggest worries are again #1 injuries and #2 a loss of team confidence. A well played loss concerns me less than than the aforementioned.
Already sick of hearing this called a "meaningless" game. For the HLT? Sure. For our ever-slim at large hopes? For NCAA tournament seeding? For team pride and confidence? Most certainly not. Valpo needs a win and they'd better treat it like such.
Not boxing out -- already given up 9 offensive RBs. GB seems a lot quicker to loose balls, RBs, passing lanes today.
Boy, to my very amateur eye it seems like they are really letting both teams play. Maybe I'm just used to the way our games are usually called, but I've been surprised that we haven't been called for more under the basket. I do think that Peters was fouled on his last 3 attempt...but what're ya going to do? I've enjoyed the netcast thus far: lots of HL discussion, cute Oscar themed segments for "best voice," "best newcomer," etc. Hoping Tevonn and Skara are better before tourney time.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 28, 2016, 02:51:19 PM
Not boxing out -- already given up 9 offensive RBs. GB seems a lot quicker to loose balls, RBs, passing lanes today.
Check that: 11 ORBs
Quote from: govalpogo on February 28, 2016, 02:52:18 PM
Boy, to my very amateur eye it seems like they are really letting both teams play. Maybe I'm just used to the way our games are usually called, but I've been surprised that we haven't been called for more under the basket. I do think that Peters was fouled on his last 3 attempt...but what're ya going to do? I've enjoyed the netcast thus far: lots of HL discussion, cute Oscar themed segments for "best voice," "best newcomer," etc. Hoping Tevonn and Skara are better before tourney time.
I thought Hammink was fouled on that last drive and definitely Peters was fouled on that three, but they let a ton of stuff go down low on our end. Can't really complain too much about the reffing after last night's travesty.
Hammink needs to keep driving the ball and we gotta keep knocking down open shots. Obviously defensively Valpo has to start boxing out better.
How many times have we turned the ball over when we try passing the ball inside? Our TO rate must be 50% when trying to force it in low
Regardless how this turns out, I like three things about this weekend: 1) we are forced to play on the road, 2) we are playing two tough teams and 3) we are playing in two large(ish) arenas (with deep sightlines and backgrounds behind the baskets). Great preparation for JLA and the HLT.
This has to be the worst game we've played all season.
You can't not score for 6 minutes and expect to win...and are we SERIOUS with this REBOUNDING!?!?!
We have so much talent and depth. But the tenacity on defense and rebounding has not been there today. Jabril in last 4 minutes.....
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 28, 2016, 03:43:15 PM
We have so much talent and depth. But the tenacity on defense and rebounding has not been there today. Jabril in last 4 minutes.....
We have 0 depth with Skara and Walker out, and obviously Nickerson still hurting.
Jubril's rebounding has been dreadful today.
Its a win!
That's my 4th thing -- we won despite 1) playing bad and 2) being pushed to the limit in both games .
and the caped Crusaders win a thriller! Yeah baby, 2 challenging road wins against decent teams. These guys need this going into Motown.
That last play though...can you shoot an in-bounds pass? Props to the team on shooting with confidence from behind the line when they needed it. Shane was money with the game on the line. If I were a GB fan, I'd not be particularly pleased with the officiating. 26-5...not about to complain about that. Go Valpo Go!
Why did Bryce not put a tall guy on the in-bound pass? I know Ole Miss had a player on the in bound pass and got beat but I would think you want to make the passer throw the ball over a guy rather than leaving his vision wide open.
Good lord, we played like sh!t today. Jubril was just dreadful on D and with his rebounding (or lack thereof), and E Victor looked like he is just learning the game of basketball. I understand that he has overcome a lot of injuries, but why he is playing right now with how he is playing? I would much rather see Lexus or Max running the point over him this season. He was good for us last year, but his body has just let him down this season. I really hope that Tevonn and Skara are able to play in the tourney, as we need them. Even though Tevonn hasn't played well for the last 10+ games overall, he is key to what we do.
;D Alec monster 25pts /15rbs Double double That's 48 points and 21 Rebounds for the weekend -- POW?
>:( We got out rebounded 42- 43 (is this a first for the season????)
Big win for Valpo, but alot of griping on this board for a 26-5 team. Too many negative waves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU)
Yet another just-ok game, but it is a win. I am now convinced that we peaked during our first semester road trip. We are too inconsistent. Our play is definitely not on the rise. Too much inconsistency. Too many missed easy shots, failed blockouts, etc. during the last few games. We went over 6 minutes without a field goal in the final game of the reg season. With that sort of play, would we even be in the ballgame against the sort of tourney teams we will play in the NCAAs? Indiana would have torched us by 20+today.
Watching the replay of Shane's shot, my favorite part is watching Todd, who is on the end of the scorer's table, jump up and pump his fists while obviously trying to remain somewhat contained for the broadcast.
Quote from: atkins on February 28, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Yet another just-ok game, but it is a win. I am now convinced that we peaked during our first semester road trip. We are too inconsistent. Our play is definitely not on the rise, which does not bode well for us. Too many guys with one-dimensional play. Too many missed easy shots, failed blockouts, etc. during the last few games. We are not expected to destroy our competition, but come on, we are playing teams that would essentially be cellar-dwellers in the Big Ten. Frustrating.
Well, that does not include Alec. He's taking the team on his shoulders right now. 48 points and 21 rebounds in two of the toughest back2back road games of the season.
Alec has been fine. But as usual, he needs more consistent help. He gets it from Carter, but who else is consistently playing at a high level?
Quote from: valpotx on February 28, 2016, 03:59:58 PMGood lord, we played like sh!t today. Jubril was just dreadful on D and with his rebounding (or lack thereof), and E Victor looked like he is just learning the game of basketball.
Quote from: atkins on February 28, 2016, 04:06:58 PMYet another just-ok game, but it is a win. I am now convinced that we peaked during our first semester road trip. We are too inconsistent. Our play is definitely not on the rise, which does not bode well for us. Too many guys with one-dimensional play. Too many missed easy shots, failed blockouts, etc. during the last few games.
??? Maybe I had the wrong game on and was watching a different team. ???
Team looked tired to me but they gutted out the win so hats off to them. Rest up, get everybody healthy and rev it up Monday.
Can anyone explain why we didn't see more of Vashil down the stretch? Jubril wasn't exactly playing his best game and Vashil's interior D and rebounding may have saved us a bucket or two.
I hope we see GB in the Semi-Finals. Given their style of play, I think they will struggle playing 3 games in 3 days.
BTW, we did not deserve to win this game given the way we rebounded, but I thought we played really well otherwise. Two games in a row where we showed we can hit clutch shots down the stretch. Something we will need if we are fortunate enough to make the NCAA tournament.
Peters is showing why he is the best player in the Horizon League. Great players step up in these kind of situations.
With Tevonn and Skara in the game... we do not get out-rebounded; we do not give up those second chance points
Quote from: talksalot on February 28, 2016, 04:34:16 PMWith Tevonn and Skara in the game... we do not get out-rebounded; we do not give up those second chance points
Very true but not because they are better at boxing out. They are better dribble penetration defenders which pushes the play further away from the basket thus avoiding those multiple-help 7 men under the basket chaos clogs in which nobody gets good defensive positioning. Green Bay attacks the glass best in full and half court penetration situations.
It looked to me like the guys went to the boards to rebound but didn't box anybody out. If they looked first for the man to box out, then went to the ball, I think they would've done better.
Of course they dominated the glass all season, so they probably know what they're doing more than I do.
Nice win to finish the regular season. On to Detroit!
Man we have some of the most spoiled, entitled fans...
While we didn't play well, it sends a message to all teams they have to play a perfect game to beat us.
I'm most frustrated with the Horizon League and screwing us out of hosting the tourney. This is the worst mistake you could have made by not rewarding your regular season champs.
I want to play Oakland in the championship game. Kampe's pregame comments on ESPN about jamming it down our throats and that their fast paced offense is better than the best defense is a joke.
Quote from: Chairback on February 28, 2016, 05:30:44 PMI want to play Oakland in the championship game.
We are 2-0 vs Oakland and 0-2 vs Wright St so I want the Raiders. That would be an additional confidence building piece of revenge.
Quote from: Chairback on February 28, 2016, 05:30:44 PM
While we didn't play well, it sends a message to all teams they have to play a perfect game to beat us.
I'm most frustrated with the Horizon League and screwing us out of hosting the tourney. This is the worst mistake you could have made by not rewarding your regular season champs.
I want to play Oakland in the championship game. Kampe's pregame comments on ESPN about jamming it down our throats and that their fast paced offense is better than the best defense is a joke.
The league needs Valpo vs. Oakland in the championship game. Need the 2 best teams and the 2 best players on national TV.
Quote from: govalpogo on February 28, 2016, 03:59:08 PMThat last play though...can you shoot an in-bounds pass? [/quot
You must of never read Chip Hilton. State University ran that play to win the National Championship. Soapy Smith, the last guy off the bench, and the catcher on the baseball team, threw a bullet pass off the backboard. Hilton set up with the defender fronting him,turned, screened him out, caught the ball off the board and laid it in. And the crowd went wild.
If Clair Bee was coaching Green Bay he would have had somebody in the paint who would have been in position to catch the ball off the backboard, which is a legal pass, and would have had two full seconds to score.
I probably read that book 50 years and I'm still waiting to see someone run that play.
Have a question. Was out of town over weekend. What happened to Tevonn. Saw the boxscore and saw he played 9 minutes. Is he hurt bad?
I think the seeds work well for us. Oakland is the most dangerous team because they can catch fire shooting and play so fast with so many possessions. They put up 108 vs. Detroit.
The good news is that if they get to the finals, they will be gassed from playing 3 games in 3 days at their pace.
Wright State is a slow-down half court nuisance. But they don't pose the fluke risk of coming out of the gate 20 to 5 on a string of bombs in front of a home crowd at the JLA.
Oops, my bad. I didn't know Oakland swept Wright State and gets the #2. Reverse my comments.
Quote from: RS on February 28, 2016, 06:11:22 PMHave a question. Was out of town over weekend. What happened to Tevonn. Saw the boxscore and saw he played 9 minutes. Is he hurt bad?
Rolled his ankle in the first half. Walked off on his own power and soon went to the locker room. Came back out after half, but spent the remainder of the game on the bench.
He's tough, so I hope he'll be alright.
If the seeds hold... we get the winner of the Green Bay / Milwaukee game on Monday night.
Green Bay beat the Panthers at home by 2
Milwaukee beat the Phoenix at home by 1
Frustrating for the players, coaches and the fans because we didn't rebound (probably what we do best). Rebounding, the thing we are really good at and dominating at, we failed to do this game. Still got the win and sweeping the Wisconsin trip is always an accomplishment no matter if we are rv.... The two teams we played this weekend, really wanted to beat Valpo and gave us their best game.
Valpo just beat one of the better teams in their conference and went 16-2...and all I hear is a bunch of whining about how poor they played, this guy didn't do that, etc. Holy crap, Valpo just won road games against tough opponents who are eyeing this game. Give them a little credit, they are 26-5!!
I don't get on the board and comment as much when I attend the game. Probably better....and I'm sure everyone here appreciates that. I thought we had several guys committed to go get the rebound. Several times the ball bounced around and was tipped this way and that way. We forgot to block out and instead threw numbers at "going after" the rebound.
Side note: When I played soccer at Valpo we had a road trip to Western Illinois and needed to win in order to advance to the conference tournament. We beat a very good Western Illinois team that ended up getting a player drafted in the MLS. After the long bus ride home from Macomb we had practice and class. 5 days later we had to go to Oakland for the conference tournament and play the same Western Illinois team we beat days ago. Only this time it was a much different outcome, they destroyed us. Point is, two weekends with back to back travel and important games takes a mental and physical toll. The team will get back to Valpo late tonight? Then have a week (not even) before they bus to the hotel in Detroit?
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2016, 08:43:24 PM
I don't get on the board and comment as much when I attend the game. Probably better....and I'm sure everyone here appreciates that. I thought we had several guys committed to go get the rebound. Several times the ball bounced around and was tipped this way and that way. We forgot to block out and instead threw numbers at "going after" the rebound.
Side note: When I played soccer at Valpo we had a road trip to Western Illinois and needed to win in order to advance to the conference tournament. We beat a very good Western Illinois team that ended up getting a player drafted in the MLS. After the long bus ride home from Macomb we had practice and class. 5 days later we had to go to Oakland for the conference tournament and play the same Western Illinois team we beat days ago. Only this time it was a much different outcome, they destroyed us. Point is, two weekends with back to back travel and important games takes a mental and physical toll. The team will get back to Valpo late tonight? Then have a week (not even) before they bus to the hotel in Detroit?
Valpo has spring break starting tomorrow - no classes this week, and Green Bay/Milwaukee will have a long drive Friday, play Saturday AND Sunday and then Valpo Monday. If Valpo is the tired team on Monday, it probably means they either got the flu, or they partied at Pepe's all week!
Quote from: a3uge on February 28, 2016, 09:16:07 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2016, 08:43:24 PMI don't get on the board and comment as much when I attend the game. Probably better....and I'm sure everyone here appreciates that. I thought we had several guys committed to go get the rebound. Several times the ball bounced around and was tipped this way and that way. We forgot to block out and instead threw numbers at "going after" the rebound. Side note: When I played soccer at Valpo we had a road trip to Western Illinois and needed to win in order to advance to the conference tournament. We beat a very good Western Illinois team that ended up getting a player drafted in the MLS. After the long bus ride home from Macomb we had practice and class. 5 days later we had to go to Oakland for the conference tournament and play the same Western Illinois team we beat days ago. Only this time it was a much different outcome, they destroyed us. Point is, two weekends with back to back travel and important games takes a mental and physical toll. The team will get back to Valpo late tonight? Then have a week (not even) before they bus to the hotel in Detroit?
Valpo has spring break starting tomorrow - no classes this week, and Green Bay/Milwaukee will have a long drive Friday, play Saturday AND Sunday and then Valpo Monday. If Valpo is the tired team on Monday, it probably means they either got the flu, or they partied at Pepe's all week!
Good deal on the spring break and not having to worry about class. That helps.
I look at it as the first road weekend of many ahead. The more they can get used to the hostile "neutral" environments they'll face the tougher they'll be. What doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger. Go Valpo :thumbsup:
My memory is now far from perfect so please correct me if I am wrong but.................
Didn't we zone Green Bay for significant stretches at the ARC? So we chose to man up with them while shorthanded 2 players at the Resch? We had foul trouble and injuries and we still played mainly man to man against an average 3 point shooting team? The method for this madness is?
Valpo is a man to man to man team. Bryce usually only goes zone when an opponent is in an offensive groove. That never happened today as Green Bay shot 34%. Valpo's man defense held one of the nation's best offenses in check. If not for 20 offensive rebounds, this game would not have been close.
So did the unavailability of T Walker and Skara make the difference on rebounding or was it fatigue. It seemed to me the team seemed a step slow tonight. At the same time their ability to stay close and hit the winning shot even though they weren't at their best was a real good sign. Something that other teams have done to us in past years. Getting T Walker and Skara healthy for Monday is the most important thing. I think a fresh and healthy Valpo team will be really tough in the tournament.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 28, 2016, 08:24:38 PM
Valpo just beat one of the better teams in their conference and went 16-2...and all I hear is a bunch of whining about how poor they played, this guy didn't do that, etc. Holy crap, Valpo just won road games against tough opponents who are eyeing this game. Give them a little credit, they are 26-5!!
Part of me feels griping is warranted. (Surprise.) Let's face it, this is supposed to be a team capable of national noise. The Horizon is a pretty bad conference, so "two of the better teams in the conference" doesn't change the fact that these are sucky teams with circa 150 RPIs that came within a hair's breath of providing TWO losses. The team might need to play better to fulfill expectations.
That said, avoiding losses on the road certainly deserves credit. I'm sure Belmont and Iowa would have killed for squeaker road victories today against TN St and OH St, respectively. Same for Xavier with the letdown at Seton Hall. And Duke at Pitt.
Here's to looking better in the conference tournament and taking care of business there, getting a favorable seeding to the dance, and doing something nationally relevant for the first time in a loooong time.
It's perfectly fair to say that we did not play well at all on Sunday. I am a big fundamental guy, and we played without fundamentals throughout much of the game. I cannot stand giving up 20 offensive rebounds. I cannot stand how many times our guys have been jumping before they know where they are throwing the ball, only to cough it up at the last minute. I cannot stand when we take extremely out of control shots (E Vic and Darien today). I cannot stand traveling when you just receive the ball. I love this team, but it is games like today where my wife has to take my son out of the room, because many four letter words seem to leak out :). I don't mind close games at all, or even close losses. Even if we won by 10+, I still would have been pissed based on the basic mistakes we were making.
I, too, thought our guys were leg weary and slow to the ball (see my post during the first half). But let's not forget that UWM took us to OT in a very physical game while GB was kinda cruising against UIC. Let's also not forget that we walked into two senior nights in a row. Lots of emotion to counteract.
Quote from: rink on February 28, 2016, 10:51:37 PM
Part of me feels griping is warranted. (Surprise.) Let's face it, this is supposed to be a team capable of national noise. The Horizon is a pretty bad conference, so "two of the better teams in the conference" doesn't change the fact that these are sucky teams with circa 150 RPIs that came within a hair's breath of providing TWO losses. The team might need to play better to fulfill expectations.
That said, avoiding losses on the road certainly deserves credit. I'm sure Belmont and Iowa would have killed for squeaker road victories today against TN St and OH St, respectively. Same for Xavier with the letdown at Seton Hall. And Duke at Pitt.
Here's to looking better in the conference tournament and taking care of business there, getting a favorable seeding to the dance, and doing something nationally relevant for the first time in a loooong time.
Yes, the Horizon was a bad conference this year, but some of the teams have, as expected, improved in the latter half. Given the slight regression by Valpo (somewhat expected with the lack of conference competition in the early stages) the close games at this stage are not so surprising.
Quote from: frontrowfan on February 27, 2016, 03:35:04 PM
Beautiful weekend in WI by raveled from Milwaukee to Green Bay this morning. Stopped for lunch at Longhorn and our team was there having lunch too! Powering up for a win tomorrow
Sure glad Shane had that extra bite of protein so he could hit that trey at the end. ;D
Quote from: nkvu on February 28, 2016, 10:48:35 PMSo did the unavailability of T Walker and Skara make the difference on rebounding or was it fatigue.
They out rebounded us on the offensive glass 16-14 at the ARC as well so much of this is a result of their aggressive drive to the basket style of play. Tevonn and David would have helped some because both anticipate well and are quick enough to stay in front of the attacker. Any time the penetrator gets a step on his defender help has to rotate and rebounding box out chaos often ensues. The trick is to contain the penetration and Carter does this particularly well.
Quote from: justducky on February 28, 2016, 09:55:58 PMDidn't we zone Green Bay for significant stretches at the ARC?
Quote from: chef on February 28, 2016, 10:10:15 PMValpo is a man to man to man team. Bryce usually only goes zone when an opponent is in an offensive groove
Am I even correct on my memory of significant zone play at the ARC? If so and we won by 12 vs winning by 2 at the Resch then how should we defend them at Joe Louis Arena? Or should we worry about that when or if the time comes? ::)
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 28, 2016, 11:38:39 PM
I, too, thought our guys were leg weary and slow to the ball (see my post during the first half). But let's not forget that UWM took us to OT in a very physical game while GB was kinda cruising against UIC. Let's also not forget that we walked into two senior nights in a row. Lots of emotion to counteract.
Milwaukee had a senior night/day against UIC and not against Valpo.
http://mkepanthers.com/news/2016/2/28/mens-basketball-big-second-half-sends-panthers-to-senior-day-victory.aspx?path=mbball (http://mkepanthers.com/news/2016/2/28/mens-basketball-big-second-half-sends-panthers-to-senior-day-victory.aspx?path=mbball)
Quote from: bbtds on February 29, 2016, 12:42:50 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 28, 2016, 11:38:39 PM
I, too, thought our guys were leg weary and slow to the ball (see my post during the first half). But let's not forget that UWM took us to OT in a very physical game while GB was kinda cruising against UIC. Let's also not forget that we walked into two senior nights in a row. Lots of emotion to counteract.
Milwaukee had a senior night/day against UIC and not against Valpo.
http://mkepanthers.com/news/2016/2/28/mens-basketball-big-second-half-sends-panthers-to-senior-day-victory.aspx?path=mbball (http://mkepanthers.com/news/2016/2/28/mens-basketball-big-second-half-sends-panthers-to-senior-day-victory.aspx?path=mbball)
Yep. :-[
Rink, I see where you are going and I am certainly not a glass half full kind of person. But Valpo is conference leader, and for UWM and UWGB a win over Valpo can make their season or change their momentum going into the Horizon tournament.
Valpo has an excellent team and has had a great season, but their talent level is not top 25 and the Horizon is pretty weak. Damn, I wish Valpo had the opportunity to join the Valley a couple of years ago.
Now here is a topic for griping. Can't they find a better place for a steak than Longhorn? They like to overdose the salt on their meat.
Find a Texas Roadhouse for crying out loud or find a good German restaurant in Wisconsin!
Quote from: rink on February 28, 2016, 10:51:37 PMThat said, avoiding losses on the road certainly deserves credit. I'm sure Belmont and Iowa would have killed for squeaker road victories today against TN St and OH St, respectively. Same for Xavier with the letdown at Seton Hall. And Duke at Pitt.
Here's to looking better in the conference tournament and taking care of business there, getting a favorable seeding to the dance, and doing something nationally relevant for the first time in a loooong time.
Very well put! (Surprise--just kidding)
Valpo just finished conference play 16-2. It's road record 8-1. Without looking this up, what other team has 8 road victories in their conference? I don't care what conference? The Cheese Trip is the most difficult of the season and as others have said this was the game for UWM and UWGB. The UWM game was on national TV and went OT. We had clinched the title a week ago. Road wins are road wins. Congrats to the team on one of the best Valpo regular seasons...ever. Enjoy it for a day, get everyone healthy and a week of intense practices and be ready for ARC North.
Oakland is also 8-1 on the road
Couldn't agree more
Quote from: Grizz on February 29, 2016, 08:20:01 AM
Oakland is also 8-1 on the road
Good point. Valpo is also 8-1 at home. How did Oakland do?? :crazy:
Quote from: valpo84 on February 29, 2016, 08:10:22 AMWithout looking this up, what other team has 8 road victories in their conference? I don't care what conference?
you KNOW I had to look it up....while 8-1 road is a great achievement... not totally rarified air up there...
A10 - St. Josephs is 7-1 with a road game at St. Bonaventure this weekend
BigEast - Nova is 8-1
Hawaii - 6-0 this weekend @ UCDavis and @LBState
Wichita State is 8-1
MtnWest - San Diego State is 7-1, @ Univ New Mexico this weekend
Southland - SFAustin is 6-0 with three road games left on their schedule
Ark Little Rock is 7-2, @ Appalachian State this weekend
Texas Southern is 6-2 with games @ Southern and @ Alcorn State coming up
Gonzaga is 8-1 on the road
Couple random thoughts:
* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.
Spot-on a3uge on all points :thumbsup:
Quote from: govalpogo on February 28, 2016, 04:08:45 PM
Watching the replay of Shane's shot, my favorite part is watching Todd, who is on the end of the scorer's table, jump up and pump his fists while obviously trying to remain somewhat contained for the broadcast.
I'll have to look for it. I loved the big grin on Shane's face. Very happy, relieved, maybe a little surprised?
I worry that we peaked too early - was it our experience showing early, and other teams have grown now than we have? But our ball movement's still been good, and Shane's growing into more serious minutes. After the early wins in Detroit these two games in Wiscinsin were already circled as the toughest left in the schedule, and we passed the test; maybe not an A, maybe not a B, but with injuries to two sometimes starters we passed the test.
Hopefully we can find another gear in rebounding, and can improve our awareness on box outs and of attacking players around the glass/boxing out, as certain other teams have stepped up.
I trust our defensive presence was felt - Green Bay killed us on the glass, but shot a vey low percentage.
Quote from: a3uge on February 29, 2016, 12:37:21 PM
Couple random thoughts:
* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.
Agreed other than you comment about never being in the at-large conversation. We certainly were prior to losing to Wright State on the road and recovered enough to be back on the bubble until we lost to them at home. Game over at that point. Still, depending on upsets in conference tourneys, I think there may still be a chance. This is a very weird year. As an example, assume we lose in the title game and Butler loses in the second round of their tourney. Butler would be 21-10 having finished
tied for 5th in the regular season. Would the committee take them over a 27-6 Valpo team? Probably but then again, it can be hard to predict these things. Just much better to go out and win the title. Much much better then the NIT.
Quote from: agibson on February 29, 2016, 04:33:36 PM
Quote from: govalpogo on February 28, 2016, 04:08:45 PM
Watching the replay of Shane's shot, my favorite part is watching Todd, who is on the end of the scorer's table, jump up and pump his fists while obviously trying to remain somewhat contained for the broadcast.
I'll have to look for it. I loved the big grin on Shane's face. Very happy, relieved, maybe a little surprised?
I worry that we peaked too early - was it our experience showing early, and other teams have grown now than we have? But our ball movement's still been good, and Shane's growing into more serious minutes. After the early wins in Detroit these two games in Wiscinsin were already circled as the toughest left in the schedule, and we passed the test; maybe not an A, maybe not a B, but with injuries to two sometimes starters we passed the test.
Hopefully we can find another gear in rebounding, and can improve our awareness on box outs and of attacking players around the glass/boxing out, as certain other teams have stepped up.
I trust our defensive presence was felt - Green Bay killed us on the glass, but shot a vey low percentage.
I seem to remember complaints about peaking too early last year. After beating UWGB at home, we struggled with UWM and Wright State before losing to Detroit. Then, we salvaged the regular season title by beating Cleveland State in another close game. We weren't firing on all cylinders either.
Momentum doesn't really exist... At least, not to the extent most people think. UWGB had a 5-game win streak by 8+ points going into their semi-finals loss in 2014. Butler had squeakers in 2010 to UWGB and Loyola at the end of the year.
Quote from: vu72 on February 29, 2016, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: a3uge on February 29, 2016, 12:37:21 PM
Couple random thoughts:
* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.
Agreed other than you comment about never being in the at-large conversation. We certainly were prior to losing to Wright State on the road and recovered enough to be back on the bubble until we lost to them at home. Game over at that point. Still, depending on upsets in conference tourneys, I think there may still be a chance. This is a very weird year. As an example, assume we lose in the title game and Butler loses in the second round of their tourney. Butler would be 21-10 having finished
tied for 5th in the regular season. Would the committee take them over a 27-6 Valpo team? Probably but then again, it can be hard to predict these things. Just much better to go out and win the title. Much much better then the NIT.
This is literally an at-large conversation. We're being mentioned and discussed by multiple media pundits about a potential at-large bid. It doesn't mean we're getting an at-large, but we're certainly, for the first time, at least in the conversation.
Valpo will not get an at large bid based on their strength of schedule.
This thread contains so many salient points and well-supported arguments. Our forum is small (far too small, in my opinion), but I cannot imagine a fan forum with a more reasoned or respectful group of posters. Sorry for the sappiness. :-[
Quote from: a3uge on February 29, 2016, 12:37:21 PM
Couple random thoughts:
* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.
Sure we all would have loved to win these games comfortably, but it is SO difficult to win in-conference on the road playing for the second time. I just don't think many of you realize that fact.
I couldn't have said the rest any better myself.
Some great points have already been said on this thread, especially several by a3uge that I wholeheartedly agree with!
For those that think we have regressed in the last four games, I think that the close nature of the games and the increase in opponents' offensive production (all 4 had more than one point per possession) is simply that the 2nd matchup is always tougher than the first, the team is seriously tired after giving it their all for 31 regular season games, and the final 3 games were more "tune up" games rather than "must-wins" (and getting all three wins was just icing on the cake.) Sitting right behind the Valpo bench in Green Bay, our team just seemed so gassed. Green Bay was giving us their everything and our lack of depth for the game just wore us out, the heavy breathing by KC and AP was just something I hadn't seen in a long while from our guys.
I think that the Wisconsin road trip is exactly what our team needed. Two close games, including our first OT game, that gave our team practice on the close game scenario and gave us the late game "catch up" scenario. Our HL schedule made for 13 double digit wins and that doesn't help when we need the grind out games that come with March. These two Wisconsin games were a huge confidence builder IMO. The goosebumps and "March Feeling" that came with the end of the Green Bay game I really think will rejuvenate the team going forward, as they now feel and realize what is at stake with each game going forward (as if they really needed a reminder?). I still have the butterflies several days after Hammink making that shot with 2.2 seconds left. Plus, seeing as a Wisconsin school rematch is likely for the semis, these closes games will be fresh in our minds and push us to do better from the tip to the final buzzer.
Also, a win at the Resch Center is huge, regardless if it was by 2 or 20. We have not done well in Green Bay historically, so just winning in Green Bay should be plenty of a boost for our mentality going into the HL Tourney. It is the first win at GB for most of the team (sans Vashil?)
Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 01, 2016, 11:52:51 PMIt is the first win at GB for most of the team (sans Vashil?)
Yep. And Vashil only played 4 minutes in that first game.
I suppose he may well have been there for the loss in 2012 as well. Has seen four losses, two wins there, perhaps.
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 28, 2016, 03:59:23 PM
Why did Bryce not put a tall guy on the in-bound pass? I know Ole Miss had a player on the in bound pass and got beat but I would think you want to make the passer throw the ball over a guy rather than leaving his vision wide open.
Um, the Kampe trick play, maybe?
Quote from: Chairback on February 28, 2016, 05:30:44 PM
I'm most frustrated with the Horizon League and screwing us out of hosting the tourney. This is the worst mistake you could have made by not rewarding your regular season champs.
Actually, it can be argued that they rewarded us even more than last year by making the other teams in our brackets play Saturday and Sunday before playing us on Monday instead of playing on Tuesday, then resting for 2 days, then playing on Friday.
What they took away was the advantage our fans had gotten used to (myself included).
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 02, 2016, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: Chairback on February 28, 2016, 05:30:44 PM
I'm most frustrated with the Horizon League and screwing us out of hosting the tourney. This is the worst mistake you could have made by not rewarding your regular season champs.
Actually, it can be argued that they rewarded us even more than last year by making the other teams in our brackets play Saturday and Sunday before playing us on Monday instead of playing on Tuesday, then resting for 2 days, then playing on Friday.
What they took away was the advantage our fans had gotten used to (myself included).
And the advantage over the two seed...
Not that much of one for the team, moreso for the fans
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Quote from: StlVUFan on March 02, 2016, 10:15:11 PM
Not that much of one for the team, moreso for the fans
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I think playing at home vs Green Bay last year was a huge advantage to the team... The advantage over the 4,5,7,etc seeds is probably better now, but there's no advantage at all over the 2 seed, other than playing a theoretically easier team.
That's more an emotional opinion than a rational one. I'm sure the team would wholeheartedly agree with you, but I don't know how you would measure how much of an advantage it was for the team. I can measure how much of an advantage it was for our fans, however.
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Quote from: StlVUFan on March 02, 2016, 10:29:50 PM
That's more an emotional opinion than a rational one. I'm sure the team would wholeheartedly agree with you, but I don't know how you would measure how much of an advantage it was for the team. I can measure how much of an advantage it was for our fans, however.
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The advantage a home team has over a road team is hardly an emotional opinion - statistically teams do better at home than on the road.
How much better? I didn't say there was no advantage, I said I don't see how you quantity it. You said huge.
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Historically, home teams win 70% of games. This is obviously skewed by "guarantee" games, but it's the reason that the NCAA change their RPI calculations.
Road wins are worth 1.4, losses worth 0.6
Home wins are worth 0.6, losses worth 1.4
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 02, 2016, 10:43:20 PM
How much better? I didn't say there was no advantage, I said I don't see how you quantity it. You said huge.
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There were only 15 arenas that have losing records at home through 2015. The median arena has a 67% winning percentage. The ARC is at 71%. There's clearly an advantage to playing at home vs playing on a neutral court - this is well documented and even included in RPI calculations.
One more time: never said there's *no* advantage. Said it's *not that much* of an advantage. I meant in any one game. Admittedly I have no more basis for that quantification than I see with your word "huge". In other words, take our semifinal game at the Joe and move it to the ARC. Say it's Milwaukee. How much of a point swing would it be?
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Quote from: govalpogo on February 28, 2016, 04:08:45 PM
Watching the replay of Shane's shot, my favorite part is watching Todd, who is on the end of the scorer's table, jump up and pump his fists while obviously trying to remain somewhat contained for the broadcast.
A little low-res, but here's the clip. Todd's a little fuzzy, but definitely there at the end of the scorer's table, by Bryce, standing, fist pumping, etc. Nice!
[tweet]705422006200631296[/tweet]
By comparison, Bryce has no visible (low-res) reaction. Apparently calmly preparing for the next play.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 02, 2016, 11:17:57 PMIn other words, take our semifinal game at the Joe and move it to the ARC. Say it's Milwaukee. How much of a point swing would it be?
We hashed home-court advantage out in a certain amount of detail a few months ago, maybe on a soccer thread (in soccer there's an interesting trend across time and leagues of the advantage decreasing over time).
I don't remember all the details, or if there was one killer study. But, in league play with everybody playing home-and-home it should be pretty easy to do the study (avoiding guarantee games, etc.). I do remember concluding that NCAA basketball had one of the clearer home advantages in all of sports.
Google suggests "about four points" with an average of 3.7 in one recent study (not sure if that was done carefully, or not) with the ARC a bit higher, #50 in one study at 5.8 points. But, again, I don't vouch for that particular study.
Just to say, I think that this is one case where things are pretty quantifiable. And that there's a definite home court advantage.
3.7, okay. I vaguely remember the discussion you refer to.
Isn't 3.7 consistent with "not that much"? How does that compare to playing with fresh legs against a team that has played at least 80 minutes in the previous 48 hours vs. the previous 96?
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Quote from: StlVUFan on March 03, 2016, 11:16:26 AM
3.7, okay. I vaguely remember the discussion you refer to.
Isn't 3.7 consistent with "not that much"? How does that compare to playing with fresh legs against a team that has played at least 80 minutes in the previous 48 hours vs. the previous 96?
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The 2 seed also gets a double bye. That's the point. The 1 seed no longer has an advantage over the 2 seed (other than playing the 4-5 seed in the 1st game vs the 3 seed). There was an advantage in the past: home court. Home court advantage is well documented. Yes, I would call a 70% winning percentage at home for the median team a huge advantage. I think the majority of people who watch college basketball realize that playing at home is a huge advantage over playing on a neutral court or playing on the road. Take last year's game in Columbus and play it in the ARC. I would definitely consider that a "huge" advantage, and I'm sure Maryland fans would say the same.
absolutely, well said.
Oh I do get all that, and I have no doubt that is what everyone would say. I'm just questioning the magnitude of it. The adjective feels like a conclusion without rigorous data behind it ("huge", not "advantage" -- I recognize there is rigorous data behind that).
And I will acknowledge the advantage over the 2 seed is pretty much gone.
I guess where I'm coming from is that I think it's a mixed bag - some good and some bad. We lost something but we also gained something, and I wonder if the sum of the two is negligible.
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Quote from: StlVUFan on March 03, 2016, 02:59:37 PM
And I will acknowledge the advantage over the 2 seed is pretty much gone.
I think that the advantage actually shifts to the 2 seed when either OU or UDM earns that seed.
Quote from: webbvufan on March 03, 2016, 04:15:06 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 03, 2016, 02:59:37 PM
And I will acknowledge the advantage over the 2 seed is pretty much gone.
I think that the advantage actually shifts to the 2 seed when either OU or UDM earns that seed.
That too, yeah.
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Quote from: webbvufan on March 03, 2016, 04:15:06 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 03, 2016, 02:59:37 PM
And I will acknowledge the advantage over the 2 seed is pretty much gone.
I think that the advantage actually shifts to the 2 seed when either OU or UDM earns that seed.
I had to laugh when reading an earlier post from an Oakland fan about the woes of having to play the late evening semi-final game on Monday and how that might keep some Oakland fans from attending. We have some fans who are going to drive 5 hours home after Monday's game, get 2 or 3 hours sleep, and get up and go to work. This guy's complaining about how a 40-min. drive home after the game might not allow enough sleep before going to work on Tues., so some fans might opt to stay home and watch it on TV.
I guess everyone has their cross to bare. Lol
Quote from: a3uge on March 03, 2016, 01:37:30 PMTake last year's game in Columbus and play it in the ARC. I would definitely consider that a "huge" advantage, and I'm sure Maryland fans would say the same.
At the same time the Terrapin Fever in Valparaiso would have really sparked an economic upturn for the Region city. So much so that it wold have been reported by Gerry Dick on Inside INdiana Business. ;)
Quote from: bbtds on March 04, 2016, 04:18:27 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 03, 2016, 01:37:30 PMTake last year's game in Columbus and play it in the ARC. I would definitely consider that a "huge" advantage, and I'm sure Maryland fans would say the same.
At the same time the Terrapin Fever in Valparaiso would have really sparked an economic upturn for the Region city. So much so that it wold have been reported by Gerry Dick on Inside INdiana Business. ;)
I'm hoping there will be great economic impact on the city of Valparaiso when VU wins 3 games in the NCAA tournament and people get curious about what's in the water in Valpo. Of course not like "what's in the water in Flint?"
Quote from: wh on March 03, 2016, 06:14:03 PMI had to laugh when reading an earlier post from an Oakland fan about the woes of having to play the late evening semi-final game on Monday and how that might keep some Oakland fans from attending. We have some fans who are going to drive 5 hours home after Monday's game, get 2 or 3 hours sleep, and get up and go to work. This guy's complaining about how a 40-min. drive home after the game might not allow enough sleep before going to work on Tues., so some fans might opt to stay home and watch it on TV. I guess everyone has their cross to bare. Lol
Where in my post did I complain or claim that the Monday night late tip was anyone's cross to bear? I was just being honest, realistic, and objective with the poster who asked last week what I thought the crowd could be like and what the buzz was in the Detroit area. I didn't complain at all, and I didn't make any comparison to other fan bases and their respective drives or try to speak for other fan bases other than to speculate a little bit about UDM. Didn't realize you'd take my comment as a pissing contest over hardships. The fact is, for whatever reasons, some Oakland fans who live within an hour or so of Joe Louis Arena won't be going to the game and will watch on TV instead, so don't expect the attendance to double tonight. Just like there weren't 8,000-10,000 when UDM played Saturday or Sunday. Plenty of local fans showed up, and plenty didn't. It is what it is, and kudos to all of the fans of all of the teams who made/will be making the trip to the Joe.