Student attendance has noticeably been down the last few seasons and I'm taking suggestions and recommendations on how the student section leaders as well as the athletics department should go about resolving the problem. ANY outside the box thinking would be appreciated. Is there something students should do? Is there steps the Athletics Department should be taking the boost student attendance? Feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I have not been able to attend a game this year, but is the music selection during timeouts, etc still horrendous? I remember times where the opposing team would have to call a timeout due to us making a run and the first thing you hear is the slow intro to Sweet Caroline. Music was a buzzkill.
Also if students are still allowed in for free, they should be required to sit in the student section. If that gets full then they can overflow to another designated section. If a student wants to sit elsewhere make them buy a ticket for that seat. There are many times at games in the past where students and athletes would sit in section A or AA. Athletes at Valpo seem to rarely ever in the student section, it almost seems like they think they are too cool to cheer.
When I was a student there, only sat in student section once or twice. Preferred to stand around the outer edge. Agree, making them sit in the section is a good thought, but hard to control, especially with so many seats open in the upper section.
Moving the band from the student section may help too... Its really load sitting next to that for a whole game, and most students would prefer to have a conversation with friends during a time out rather than have music blasting in their ear.
And this is a generalization and assumption... but the typical college student at Valpo is not very interested in sports. So you need to get already set groups of students an incentive to go to the game (i.e frats/sororities, other sports teams, choir, robotics clubs, intermurals, etc.). "Force" them to go, get them involved and interested and start rebuilding the culture of Valpo sports pride in the student body that used to be there.
Lastly, better games earlier in the year at home and game on Friday/Saturday nights. Can't expect a Sunday afternoon game or a Wednesday night to have great attendance at Valpo.
To build on Vuny, Coordination with fraternities and sororities by maybe letting them do fundraising for their specific philantrophies at the game: for example a couple groups have literacy causes: maybe having people bring a book and those groups come to attend/participate in half time events.
Another thing that changed that happened before Bryce left: the team needs to be more engaged in student population. They used to rush into the student section after each game, they did promos around campus and just generally were well liked by the community. We are a small enough campus that this could pull people to feel more connected.
It will be a difficult task and the primary reason is that today's kids are not very social. They will text each other when someone is in the next room. Going to a game is social and primarily students would rather stay home and play games on their phones. If I had it to do all over again I would be much more involved in all the great stuff going on at a University like Valpo, not just sports, and my guess is that in 20 or 30 years today's students might wish they used their time differently.
Having said all that, I would think one thing that might help is for Coach Lottich, together with different players, could be seen regularly at the Union, promoting Valpo Basketball. Fans can think players as "untouchable" or too out of ones league to communicate with them. This inter-action can help bridge that gap.
Then again, free food is always a winner and Homer would regularly buy pizza for the students.
100% agree with vuny98. They need to revive Valpo Sports Pride and start rebuilding the culture.
A few ideas:
-Restore the VU CRU (student group that led the student section) and get funding from the student senate for T-Shirts, Food, Events Etc. Recruit people to this organization every year.
-Designate 1 person as the leader of each dorm to knock on dorms and rally that dorm to the ARC for games. Also have 1 leader from each fraternity/sorority. Have them bang on doors and tell RAs to get people down to the game.
-At the opening Convocation for Freshman take all the freshman down to the ARC and introduce them to the Team & Coaches. Teach them the cheers and explain to them the history of Valpo Basketball. And relay to them its an expectation to come to the games. Indoctrinate them to the culture. Other schools do this and there is no reason Valpo's Athletics Department could set this up. It wouldn't be hard that first day. UNI does this.
https://twitter.com/CoachJake_UNI/status/898215047754727426
https://twitter.com/CoachJake_UNI/status/898219162555863041
-Valpo Athletics should invested in enhancing the gameday experience.
-Valpo Athletics should reach out to the Music Department and ask them to help the pep band. Ask them to recruit students. Maybe offer a half credit for being in the pep band.
-Create a text alert. Example during Convocation have everyone text a number and it will send reminders to the students phone of when the games are. Also have them follow the Valpo Athletics & basketball social media accounts.
-Get the Coaches to hang out in the Student Union once a week during lunch and just connect with the students.
-Have the Athletics Department work with the Greek Life Department and strongly urge them to not allow Greek Recruitment events on the same day as games. All greek life recruitment have to be registered through the Greek Life department anyways. Work together to maximize results.
That approachable nature was a hallmark of past teams. Ryan Broekhoff Vashil Fernandez Jubril Adekoya Lexus Williams Bobby Capobianco etc. always seemed both from my own personal experience with them and from my friends who knew them better to have a smile and a moment to chat with their fellow students. Never once did I get the sense that they were too good or too cool to talk to people. They were just all around solid people. I'm sure there were and are many like them but those players stood out in particular. I'd love to see that tradition continue. Maybe stage some meet the team nights before the season starts or find other avenues for the athletes and other students to interact. (Maybe this is where my idea of seeing greater partnership between the Office of International Programs/Gandhi-King Center and the athletic department could work well (more on that later)
As for student engagement I would say making student attendance of all athletic events (not just basketball) a point of emphasis from orientation onwards and getting the RAs involved to make sure students are encouraged to attend events is a good idea. Maybe partner with the Office of International Programs/Gandhi-King center which is always doing international outreach events to stoke interest in Valpo Athletics by having an International Student Appreciation Day to teach about American sports and let them see their importance to our culture or even combining the international food/market days or culture nights with athletic events somehow.
Do the concessions stands accept the One card/Crusader Cash? If not they should.
I don't know maybe these ideas aren't feasible but I'm just spitballing.
I really like the Northern Iowa idea but...they have 10,000 undergrads and a city population of 41,500. Their average attendance is 4321 over four home games. That is 8.4% of the combined students and residents. Valpo has 3,300 undergrads and a city population of 33,000. Our average attendance has been 3039 over our first four so that is 8.4% of our combined number.
We have the exact same result when taking into account the stats I showed. Both suck and are due in part to bad play from both teams. We are 11-10 and they are 10-10.
I also want to say that for as critical as we may sound/be sometimes many of us I'm sure are plenty grateful for what we have in terms of the program leadership and Conference quality (especially now). Valpo has done very well for itself since the late 80s early 90s It's just that we believe as I'm sure everyone does that we can still be so much more. I'm glad to see threads like this that show that that commitment isn't limited to just us fans.
An organized student group could once again put together events like this. This was just 4 short years ago when the student section was much more organized. I really think the Athletics Department should encourage and give resources to boost enthusiasm and restore some pride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-STAL0aNko
Attendance for sporting events is decreasing everywhere. It's just too easy, and cheaper, to stay at home on your couch and watch it on HDTV.
I'm not sure you can emphasize sports, or basketball, without a potential negative reaction. If it's true that current students don't care about the athletic events, I can just imagine reactions if they are consistently reminded, texted, pound on doors, etc about the games. Also curious is the reactions of students involved in other university activities that would not get the full court press.
It comes down to 2 things. The first is a consistent winner. mbb is struggling this year. The second thing is you have to make "being there" worth the person's time and investment (which #1 helps). I feel this is where the gameday experience is falling short. Generally, there are more ways to incentivize the student population rather than the general surrounding population so I think that's where it needs to start. General population will bandwagon if/when a team is winning and getting publicity.
Like the VU CRU/t shirt thing...maybe the Ath. Dept help in cost...that alone helps create interest and enthusiasm when the rest of the crowd notices student section, especially when they are being active, having fun. We always notice more crowd involvement and good atmosphere when the student section is having fun and being active...theme nights? Love it when they get into crazy outfit thing...maybe student competition(frats, sororities, dorms) for new and unique cheers. Having the cheer leaders lead Student cheers in front of their section. Allow students to use their ID's for discounted food and drink . Oh yes, and a consistently winning team helps :).Let's face it we are bound to have a down year now and then. As the team grows and matures maybe they will appreciate more student involvement and react accordingly after the games by interacting with the students.
Personally I feel that it would be worth while to get the academic departments involved. What I mean would be this, Valpo has a Statistics department, maybe try to have a collaboration where the Stats students and Professors collect game statistics and maybe have the upper level Stats students run in depth analysis and try to find trends as to when the team is good or bad in some areas. Collaborate with the Marketing Students and Professors and have them do ad campaigning. If the right people are involved virtually every department on could find some way to collaborate
Quote from: valpo4life on January 24, 2018, 10:06:28 AM
I have not been able to attend a game this year, but is the music selection during timeouts, etc still horrendous? I remember times where the opposing team would have to call a timeout due to us making a run and the first thing you hear is the slow intro to Sweet Caroline. Music was a buzzkill.
Also if students are still allowed in for free, they should be required to sit in the student section. If that gets full then they can overflow to another designated section. If a student wants to sit elsewhere make them buy a ticket for that seat. There are many times at games in the past where students and athletes would sit in section A or AA. Athletes at Valpo seem to rarely ever in the student section, it almost seems like they think they are too cool to cheer.
I noticed a few students (girls as well as guys) sitting in Section D on Sunday. Maybe they like a 30 yard line view better than an end zone view, who knows? Part of me says they should have sat in the student section, yet another part says at least they made the effort to attend, unlike 95% (pick a number) of their peers.
The one thing I will say in defense of some students sitting elsewhere: those seats down low right behind the basket standard are *terrible* (as in your view of the lane is completely obstructed as well as a portion of the entire court). If it's a TV game, you'll see guys sitting there because it's easier to get on camera, but for other games, heck, I'd pick other seats if they were available.
Beer.
honestly beer would bring people in
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Quote from: a3uge on January 24, 2018, 10:42:14 PM
Beer.
Quote from: truth219 on January 25, 2018, 08:47:47 AM
honestly beer would bring people in
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I'm for this idea. It would boost general admission. It could be done if the University went through a 2nd party with a liquor license. I'm not optimistic the University would go for it.
Easy answer: have a beer or two before the game if you are 21.
Usually fan turnout goes down in relation to team performance. That's normal. But many of my posts last year (and the one prior) cited the same pathetic student turnout when the team was excellent and we had a popular future NBA player on the court.
Part of following the team as alumni is to share the excitement for the team with current students. I'm just not getting that vibe at all. I am honestly thinking I will just ignore this team until I hear the students are attending again. How many games do Heckler and top adminstrators attend? Any comment on that?
It pains me to say out, but I honestly think the student culture at Valpo has changed dramatically from kids who enjoy events to kids who hibernate more frequently than ever to read practice an instrument, or play around on their smartphones. For them, crowd noise just makes it harder to hear Netflix on your headphones. Why not just check scores or flip to ESPN3 every so often. The "event" buzz just doesn't move them.
Quote from: crusadermoe on January 25, 2018, 09:32:52 AM
Easy answer: have a beer or two before the game if you are 21.
Usually fan turnout goes down in relation to team performance. That's normal. But many of my posts last year (and the one prior) cited the same pathetic student turnout when the team was excellent and we had a popular future NBA player on the court.
Part of following the team as alumni is to share the excitement for the team with current students. I'm just not getting that vibe at all. I am honestly thinking I will just ignore this team until I hear the students are attending again. How many games do Heckler and top adminstrators attend? Any comment on that?
It pains me to say out, but I honestly think the student culture at Valpo has changed dramatically from kids who enjoy events to kids who hibernate more frequently than ever to read practice an instrument, or play around on their smartphones. For them, crowd noise just makes it harder to hear Netflix on your headphones. Why not just check scores or flip to ESPN3 every so often. The "event" buzz just doesn't move them.
the point was to have people come to the game to have a few beers. I am not an alcoholic but it would get people to come.
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I'll throw out props to the Phi Delts... they had a decent showing in the Student Section last night... too bad all of the seats around them were filled with air.
This is a very thoughtful and intelligent thread. Let me offer a few ideas that hopefully reach the level of some of the other suggestions.
-Move the MVC games that are in the last week in December to the first week in December. There is no rule that says you have to group all of the conference games together and at least one conference (Big Ten) is doing this. While I recognize this would need to be approved by the conference (and probably done by every school), this adds a meaningful conference game when school is in session for all teams.
-Eliminate non-D1 games at the beginning of the season. There is no fan excitement generated by starting the season with one or two non-D1 games.
-While I recognize that winning is a major cause of building a personal relationship with a team, I wonder if something might be lacking with this team right now. It might not be a fair example, but one thing that struck me about the Florida State, Saint Mary's and Rhode Island games was that the students really seemed to be connected to the team. My suggestion is that there probably needs to be some additional emphasis here and that token actions need to be avoided. What I am suggesting is more personal interaction between the players and the students (and maybe the community) by doing such things as: players having Twitter accounts that students can follow (would need to be monitored by the athletic department), players having meals together in places where students and fans go (i.e. Union, restaurants in town, etc.) and (as stated previously) having the coaches and players involved in orientation programs when Freshmen start classes.
Quote from: truth219 on January 25, 2018, 08:47:47 AM
honestly beer would bring people in
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While I am not against selling beer at Valpo games, I am not so sure this would do anything for student attendance and enthusiasm. I go to most games for a D1 team that does have beer sold at games and I seldom see students buying out holding a beer.
I've heard there is only one staff member in charge of gameday stuff. If that's true, they need some more help.
That's crazy. When I was working at the ticket office my senior year there were 3.
SIU's student section was impressive tonight. SIU is a much larger school but they were rowdy. Our students could take notes. Maybe our Athletics Department could ask their Athletics Department how they drive the turnout and build a culture as well. A big issue on our end as far as I'm concerned.
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/960021627198234624
According to Paul, they all show up a half hour before game time and PRACTICE their cheers.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 03, 2018, 11:36:53 PM
According to Paul, they all show up a half hour before game time and PRACTICE their cheers.
We could definitely benefit from that. Back when I was in school everyone sort of was led by a few individuals in the student section who were the unspoken leaders and led the cheers. Our student section could benefit from some sort of registered student group leading them. Nothing is going to change unless someone takes action, whether that be in the Athletics Department or individuals in the student body. Something needs to change.
One of the things I've been thinking has hurt student attendance, and I didn't think about it until today, Matt Lottich doesn't have the same winning tradition that Homer and Bryce did. A lot of today's VU students weren't there for the great years of Homer and Bryce coached Crusader teams. Until Matt builds His winning tradition with the Valpo basketball program, we're going to see a lot of empty bleachers that look like students.
SIU also handed out free t-shirts and free pizza. It was good to see their football team in mass also in the stands. Supporting each others teams needs to be stressed. Also didn't hurt that it was a Saturday night game. I'm sure they wouldn't have been out in force for a Wednesday game.
SIU is a bigger university by far, is located in a pretty lame community of Carbondale, IL, and has a strong tradition of reasonable success a few years back. So I won't compare us to them.
It seems to me that better comparisons are going to be Evansville, Drake, and Loyola. I can't recall seeing the student sections there at Evansville and Bradley. Does anyone else? And we have yet to play at Drake or Loyola.
They also had drawings for nice prizes for the students who were given raffle tickets as they walked in... all 1,500-2,000 of them!! They had them playing Xbox games on the jumbotron.
Sad tho; they had to explain a few things. We are giving you news papers to hold up when the other team players are introduced. When that's over, tear them up and we'll have confetti when the game is over. But don't make paper airplanes out of them. Thus one Team Bench warning against ISU for having one of the paper airplanes land on the court during play.
They had students in their time-out contests. Half-Court Shots... all you can shoot in 30 seconds for $100 visa card. The guy hits it on his third attempt. They had a progressive, Layup, FreeThrow and 3-pointer. where you risked the $25 to shoot the Free Throw for $50; and risked the $50 for the 3-pointer and $100. Kid hits all three. They were averaging 3-4 "items" during every timeout. Contests, GameBall presentations, Dance Team, CheerLeaders...Name That Tune... it was an atmosphere! 40-member pep band, including three tubas.
They did NOT have a sponsor the their 3-pointers.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 04, 2018, 11:57:48 AMI can't recall seeing the student sections there at Evansville
We play there this coming Wednesday night.
Look at the way Porter Moser interacts with his student section. He goes the extra mile to drive turnout and build a connection with the students.
To give full context Porter has been at Loyola for 7 years now and I think most of us on this board remember the Loyola in the Horizon League nobody showed up to their games and it was a very sparse student section. He's been working on building that goodwill with the students for years and I heard he really stepped up his efforts after the Gentile reno.
It's easier to do during the great winning seasons like this one for Loyola but I would love to some more engagement and outreach.
https://twitter.com/BigJoeRambler/status/959897590975344652
Really good interview on the new USH with one of the student leaders of the section. Seems like a bright, knowledgeable kid with a real passion for basketball. But when Paul pressed him a bit on reasons and ideas, he had nothing other than "The team isn't good." While true, and surely a factor, I was a little dismayed he seemed more ready to offer excuses than ideas. This year is what it is, but what do they intend on changing next year? Have they reached out to past leaders to gauge their ideas?
Being in charge of the student section is more than just running the twitter account.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 08, 2018, 02:34:27 PM
Really good interview on the new USH with one of the student leaders of the section. Seems like a bright, knowledgeable kid with a real passion for basketball. But when Paul pressed him a bit on reasons and ideas, he had nothing other than "The team isn't good." While true, and surely a factor, I was a little dismayed he seemed more ready to offer excuses than ideas. This year is what it is, but what do they intend on changing next year? Have they reached out to past leaders to gauge their ideas?
Being in charge of the student section is more than just running the twitter account.
I tweeted at the student section leaders & Mark LaBarbera with some ideas to bring back the official student section organization called VU CRU but I pretty much got the same response. I even sent them the paperwork they need to fill out to create a student section and haven't heard if there is any movement on that front. I invited them to join the conversation of the message boards to brain storm ideas with alumni and fans and I haven't noticed their presence on this thread. It's a little disheartening but so is the Athletics Departments efforts and sense of urgency. This is a big problem for this program and this school.
Running social media is easy. It doesn't take much effort to send tweets. I appreciate that someone is trying but the goals for the student section should be set much higher. More can be done and more should be done.
Now SIU is really good at outside the box thinking for promotion and getting the their students to come to the games lol.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/962057312247545857
https://twitter.com/5thYear/status/961999610431623170
You mean the athletic department can engage the students directly? Inconceivable!
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 09, 2018, 04:04:02 PM
You mean the athletic department can engage the students directly? Inconceivable!
I know, weird. I thought they could only hand out free foam fingers and t-shirts.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 09, 2018, 03:54:36 PM
Now SIU is really good at outside the box thinking for promotion and getting the their students to come to the games lol.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/962057312247545857
https://twitter.com/5thYear/status/961999610431623170
y'All did notice this is their Valentines' day game... for those who can't get a date otherwise...probably not a good game for the Kiss Kam.
I've been thinking a lot about this and I think a lot of this has to do with the student leadership. I don't get the sense that these guys are Valpo fans first and foremost, which isn't what I'd look for in a student section leader. I'm also not sure if they talk about Valpo enough in their radio show (I don't listen frequently so maybe someone can fill me in). If content mostly unrelated to Valpo hoops is going out to the campus community, they're sending a message that Valpo basketball isn't important since they are the student section leaders. If one glance at their twitter shows numerous tweets about which (non-Valpo) game they should attend, which (non-ARC) arena they should visit, GCU content, Loyola (MD) content, content about other schools most Valpo students don't give a crap about, bracketology for the CBI\CIT, etc. before they see any Valpo content, they are again sending the message to the students that Valpo basketball isn't important. When their pinned tweet, the first thing they see when they come to their Twitter, is their student section leader sitting in Chicago State's gym with GCU gear on,what message does that send to other students? Some of these trips I'm sure have even conflicted with Valpo games (correct me if I'm wrong). What's a student section without its leaders?
In the interest of fairness, let me say that I admire their passion for college hoops, respect their ambition to try to cover teams from around the country,consider their twitter page to be a must-view for information, and feel that the experience they are gaining and the contacts they are making will serve them very well in the future and make them potentially great assets to the Valpo community as alumni; the unfortunate trade-off is the thing that will make them the most marketable once they graduate serves as their greatest hindrance to their role as student section leaders. I would suggest trying to work more Valpo content into the show and Twitter page, or starting a second show and page devoted to Valpo and their role as student section leaders. Maybe have Paul on as a guest if he's willing and able. Interview people around the Valpo Athletics (but especially basketball). Help the student body connect with and get to know the athletes as people, as fellow students, as classmates. Giving the students a way to relate to the players is a great way to foster that connection and community that is so necessary in the building and maintenance of a strong student section. Again, Paul is really good at this and could really help if these guys would reach out to him.
Lastly, it's fine to like other teams (I do too) but while they're Valpo students and while they're the leaders of the student section, Valpo should be #1 in their hearts and that much should be made abundantly clear to their fellow students. They should be willing to listen to and tap into what the student body needs in order to make attending games attractive, and work within their power and to the best of their ability to provide these things. As has been mentioned before, pursue funding if possible. They should know and be able to articulate well the myriad reasons why basketball and athletics in general should and do matter to the university and the university community.
My nephew is a recent graduate of another mid-major school. His junior year, student attendance suddenly plunged despite the team having one of their best seasons in recent memory. As he tells it, the reason was that the two fraternities that were the largest drivers of student section participation were rarely around anymore. The reason? Two chapter presidents graduated, to be replaced by guys who didn't make attending sporting events a priority (in fact, he said one fraternity was basically led by a guy who actively dissed his own school's team in social media comments, choosing to skip home games to watch his favorite Big Ten team on TV and encouraged others to join him). The sororities that were paired with them followed suit, multiplying the issue.
At Big State U., this kinda thing wouldn't make much of a ripple. At a midmajor school where something like that can easily mean the difference between having a few hundred kids in the student section instead of 1,000 - 1,500, it's noticeable.
Obviously, this is not what's happened at VU this year. But to me, this shows the importance of having the effort for better attendance being focused across the entire student body instead of just letting the Greek organizations drive the car. If the Greek orgs are bringing people in the door, great, but when you get a couple chapter leaders who don't buy in, your student section can be empty real quick.
By the way the so called student leaders were NOT at the game today. I would not call that leadership. No Valpo Crusader either. Even giving away prizes and sandwiches today to students didn't get them out of their Dorms. This school does not show any spirit for their own sports team.
It's apparent the Greek Life support has fallen off a cliff the last 2 seasons, which is pretty disturbing because Smits & Jay are in two different fraternities and one of the basketball managers is the president of a fraternity. How can they not support their brothers? I've noticed a group of Phi Delts at a couple games (it may have been a recruitment event). Back when I was in school the Sig Eps and Phi Psi's were the two biggest fraternal groups at basketball games but they were also the two biggest fraternities. But even the Phi Sig's and Sig Pi's were big supporters too. The Sororities would come out in big groups sometimes. The Athletics Department needs to engage in meaningful dialogue with the Office of Greek Life, they should work with them.
We have big issues and it's not a simple fix. It's a culture problem that goes well beyond how many wins and losses this team has. These kids don't know the cheers. Fixing this problem needs to start with build backup the culture and tradition of students going to games.
I'm literally dumbfounded and incredibly disappointed with the student bodies support of THEIR Team! Seeing that type of lack of support on national television is an embarrassment to the University and all it's Alums. Most importantly this team deserves better.
We had more then Evansville so there's that. Fix the problem or ditch the student section. Nothing worse then a ugly empty section of seats right behind the hoop.
I watched the replay of the game and the network never even tried to show the student section, just the crusaderettes. I don't think they wanted to embarrass us.
Maybe they can make it an alumni section or a student\alumni section. We could teach the cheers to the students that way and then maybe the students would be able to carry on what they've learned and rebuild the culture.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 11, 2018, 09:03:18 PM
It's apparent the Greek Life support has fallen off a cliff the last 2 seasons, which is pretty disturbing because Smits & Jay are in two different fraternities and one of the basketball managers is the president of a fraternity. How can they not support their brothers? I've noticed a group of Phi Delts at a couple games (it may have been a recruitment event).
We have big issues and it's not a simple fix. It's a culture problem that goes well beyond how many wins and losses this team has. These kids don't know the cheers. Fixing this problem needs to start with build backup the culture and tradition of students going to games.
I'm literally dumbfounded and incredibly disappointed with the student bodies support of THEIR Team! Seeing that type of lack of support on national television is an embarrassment to the University and all it's Alums. Most importantly this team deserves better.
I completely agree.
Back in the day (yeah, the late 60s) Greeks drove the attendance in the student section — Fraternities, mainly, but also Sororities. It was expected. It was the Valpo culture at the time. How was that lost? ValpoPal posted a more recent Valparaizone photo. How did that also disappear so quickly? Answer: the failure to recognize that culture needs to be passed on. We, as a university, cannot assume it will just happen. Great effort must be put into it EVERY year. And, I'm sorry, but college students seldom know what the heck is going on. They may eventually get it later as maybe juniors or seniors, and some don't even get it until well after graduation and then regret that they didn't take advantage of the opportunity. So they cannot be expected to do the job.
Valpo culture must emminate from the top. Top of the Athletic Department. Top of the administration. They must be the keepers of the fame and lead the way year after year, class after class. Part of my memories of being a student at Valpo was the academic experience. It was eye-opening. But emotionally, my love of the school really came from the social atmosphere I experienced for 4 too short years. And both participating as well as supporting fellow athletes took that experience over the top. But I had tons of non-athlete friends who were right there with me. All of that was fostered by the Valpo administration, i.e., President O.P. Kretzman.
Our coaches have been super in attracting great D-I athletes to Valpo despite less than optimum budgets, scholarships and facilities. How have they done that? IMO, they have created a family atmosphere in just about all sports, and athletes gravitate to it. Is that the same atmosphere that is promoted to the general student body in not only marketing blurbs but practice and followthrough? Or is it in reality more sterile and, once on campus, the family aspect kind of disappears? Again IMO, the university has to do more to emphasize a family culture and family obligations within all students as a part of the campus experience, and that needs to include getting them to participate as fans in Valpo family events: athletics, obviously, but also in theater, music, worship, etc. I am not on campus so my thoughts are pure speculation based on limited data points, but it is a feeling I have. I hope I am mistaken.
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 11, 2018, 08:58:52 PMBy the way the so called student leaders were NOT at the game today. I would not call that leadership. No Valpo Crusader either. Even giving away prizes and sandwiches today to students didn't get them out of their Dorms. This school does not show any spirit for their own sports team.
I tried not to come down too hard on this point, thinking maybe there's a valid reason, but that concerned me as well. If there's no valid reason then shame on them for the poor example of leadership they are setting. As I wrote before, what's a student section without its leaders? This team has fought hard through a ton of adversity this year and it's just now starting to bear fruit. They deserve the support of their friends and classmates especially. As the fight song says: "Valpraiso, we're here to back you. Our cheers like thunder roar. "And let's fight for the brown and gold." Students especially section leaders need to live up to the ideals expressed in the school song.
One of them was at home in Maryland this weekend. It sounds like his flight got delayed and he couldn't make the game. I'm not sure about the other 2.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/962735931928334336
Great points brought up by many. As an alum and season ticket holder, it's truly a shame how much the culture has changed. We have talent and great recruits coming in next year, along with our transfers. We're in a much better conference. Can't just be us older fans. Just a few years ago, it was ELECTRIC! We need to push for the Athletic Department to host a gathering after the season where we can bring up these concerns but more importantly work together to brainstorm ways to make the gameday experience buzzing again. Please????
Quote from: VU2014 on February 11, 2018, 10:18:06 PMOne of them was at home in Maryland this weekend. It sounds like his flight got delayed and he couldn't make the game. I'm not sure about the other 2. https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/962735931928334336
Well then I apologize for my rant on them, but not for the students who were on campus.
IMO labeling the student situation as a "leader" problem is kind of a straw man argument.
Prior to Thanksgiving break, we had played only 2 home games, both of which were against non D-1 opponents. What followed was an 8-week, 2-day dry spell, during which we played only 1 home game when the students were on campus. Making matters worse, our W-L record fell off the table during the "dry spell."
Working through long holiday breaks in shutdown mode is nothing new, of course. What's different was going the entire month of December with 0 home games when the students were on campus. It prevented the students from connecting with the program during the early stages of the season while the team was playing exciting basketball and winning games. Now we're 2/3 of the way through the season and that ship has sailed.
Just add this to the ever popular failure with a good excuse file.
For what's worth and not much, I posted a complaint about the student attendance on Facebook and received a response saying that because of the school being closed on Friday and Saturday due to weather, many students went home for a long weekend and, many others were suffering from the flu that was going around campus.
My response: Horse Hockey >:( :censored: :banghead:
Quote from: vu72 on February 12, 2018, 06:47:52 AM
For what's worth and not much, I posted a complaint about the student attendance on Facebook and received a response saying that because of the school being closed on Friday and Saturday due to weather, many students went home for a long weekend and, many others were suffering from the flu that was going around campus.
My response: Horse Hockey >:( :censored: :banghead:
Back in 2001 they had Midnight Madness which was awesome. It was a huge success by acclimitizing freshmen to the b-ball team from early on.
Light shows, music, a scrimmage + a dunk contest. What can possibly do a better job introducing new students than a fun event in October like that. Was that outlawed by the NCAA?
None of us are on campus that I know, but where and how do freshmen get acclimatized to the b-ball team? Signs in the student union are worthless, if that's all that's done.
Was at the game with a buddy yesterday and everyone walking out was talking about the lack of student attendance. It's quite embarrassing I'd agree, but it gets old talking about. Does anyone know the facts pertaining to what the sports administration HAS done this year to market their brand with the students?
I think part of the problem is Matt's personality which, it appears, is soft spoken and unassuming. He needs to get out, or have other coaches and players out and mingle with the students or at least let his players go into the student crowd ( ???) and thank them for attending as did Vashil and others.
I sent a tweet to the Valpo Torch and the Sports Editor to do a investigative report on the declining student attendance the last 2 seasons. I'd be very interested to hear a students perspective on this and I'd like it to be in writing. I encourage others to encourage the Torch to write this piece. It's important and I know many on this board would read it.
Email: torch@valpo.edu
Office Phone: (219) 464-5426
http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/
https://twitter.com/Bill_C_Valpo/status/963072336932098049
Quote from: Billy Co on February 12, 2018, 09:35:26 AM
I sent a tweet to the Valpo Torch and the Sports Editor to do a investigative report on the declining student attendance the last 2 seasons. I'd be very interested to hear a students perspective on this and I'd like it to be in writing. I encourage others to encourage the Torch to write this piece. It's important and I know many on this board would read it.
Email: torch@valpo.edu
Office Phone: (219) 464-5426
http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/ (http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/)
[tweet]963072336932098049[/tweet]
The current issue of
The Torch has an article about yesterday's game by its sports editor. He doesn't mention anything about the lack of student attendance, but the piece is accompanied by a photo of Golder's dunk that unfortunately shows an almost empty student section in the background:
http://www.valpotorch.com/eedition/page_e7ef5792-e477-53c7-bdf5-dca0021e9d91.html#page_11 (http://www.valpotorch.com/eedition/page_e7ef5792-e477-53c7-bdf5-dca0021e9d91.html#page_11-s)
Quote from: wh on February 12, 2018, 06:20:10 AM
IMO labeling the student situation as a "leader" problem is kind of a straw man argument.
Prior to Thanksgiving break, we had played only 2 home games, both of which were against non D-1 opponents. What followed was an 8-week, 2-day dry spell, during which we played only 1 home game when the students were on campus. Making matters worse, our W-L record fell off the table during the "dry spell."
Working through long holiday breaks in shutdown mode is nothing new, of course. What's different was going the entire month of December with 0 home games when the students were on campus. It prevented the students from connecting with the program during the early stages of the season while the team was playing exciting basketball and winning games. Now we're 2/3 of the way through the season and that ship has sailed.
Just add this to the ever popular failure with a good excuse file.
I agree that the poor scheduling has likely had a significant effect on attendance and enthusiasm. As I mentioned in another post, I would recommend that the MVC schedule two conference games in early December for every team (one home and one away) and remove conference games from the week between Christmas and New Years.
Quote from: Billy Co on February 12, 2018, 09:35:26 AM
I sent a tweet to the Valpo Torch and the Sports Editor to do a investigative report on the declining student attendance the last 2 seasons. I'd be very interested to hear a students perspective on this and I'd like it to be in writing. I encourage others to encourage the Torch to write this piece. It's important and I know many on this board would read it.
Email: torch@valpo.edu
Office Phone: (219) 464-5426
http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/ (http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/)
I'd be all for this.
Having been heavily involved with the student section during one of the most "prosperous" times that we have seen, I would welcome any questions anyone has for those who have been the "leaders" in the past. I can assure you that running an organization such as the student section takes a lot of time and a lot of work. It is a large group, and by its very nature is transitive and inconsistent.
Our biggest problem was pushing the leadership forward. There was a significant lack of involvement from those who were in the younger classes, and things fell off for a couple of years. It since jumped back up, and then fell...much like a roller coaster.
There are many reasons for the lack of attendance. Significantly among them (and this is a very incomplete list): Lack of connection between team and students, lack of quality/consistent scheduling, lack of student section organization/promotions. There are myriad reasons, but these are some of the most significant ones we faced, and it seems as if they are still there today.
As I did several years ago, I will be posting a post-season reflection on the year (see the old one here: http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2533.msg72229#msg72229). One of the topics I have already written, re-written, deleted, re-written, etc. is on this topic. I think it is something that needs to be addressed at an administrative level. Its a huge undertaking for a student, or group of students. We shall see.
Could declining attendance also be contributed to a subpar season?
I read an article about SMU basketball enabled fan engagement which was interesting. I think Mark Cuban wrote the article.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 12, 2018, 11:03:09 AM
Our biggest problem was pushing the leadership forward. There was a significant lack of involvement from those who were in the younger classes, and things fell off for a couple of years. It since jumped back up, and then fell...much like a roller coaster.
This fall is more like...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsMEk3THsxo
or this.... (https://media1.tenor.com/images/bf4859cf2e99996de245149a77f9488d/tenor.gif)
[tweet]963232464826195969[/tweet]
Ok...a Torch story? . Fine. But the horse has almost left the 2017-2018 barn in terms of a news story. Why not do the story next November and feature a picture of the near-empty bleachers on national TV we saw yesterday. It might make more sense to do the story next November and show the bare empty bleachers in a photo.
One last chance to be TV (though not ESPN) is the Northern Iowa game. But with no real time to change, VU may need to just bite the bullet and close it down.
E-mail to students: For our national TV games, the student section will be closed off unless a full pep band plans to be there and at least 50 kids show up in Valpo wear agreeing to stand for half of the game,. (no requirement that they clap their hands or yell a few times. That will be a nice plus though.)
Can someone re-post those Northern Iowa student section photos again?
I think the pep band does a fine job with what they're given to work with...I do miss the the drummers during the introductions though.
Quote from: M on February 13, 2018, 08:49:32 AM
I think the pep band does a fine job with what they're given to work with...I do miss the the drummers during the introductions though.
That.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 13, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
Quote from: M on February 13, 2018, 08:49:32 AM
I think the pep band does a fine job with what they're given to work with...I do miss the the drummers during the introductions though.
That.
Agreed. I hope the Athletics Department reaches out to the music department this offseason and works something out. Someone mentioned the Music Department basically "sabotaged" the pep band in the past which is a shame. That's where I'd go to the higher ups to put the kibosh on their bs. I think the half-credit idea would get the job done as well as maybe getting a GA to become a instructor.
A lot of ideas have been thrown around here regarding the need to organize and coordinate the student body's participation and support as well as reinforce a positive culture (including the pep band). I have a question: Is there a position in the Athletic Department designated with that responsibility (and I mean beyond setting up Tee shirt giveaways and free pizza)? If there is, it might be good to reevaluate their charter and performance or give that position more resources. If there isn't, why not?
I forgot to ask where the President usually sits during games.
As chief spokesperson and fund-raiser for the University, how does he view national television exposure versus music performances which are never televised or shown in the news media?
That might enlighten us on the pep band and student attendance etc.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 13, 2018, 10:57:32 AM
I forgot to ask where the President usually sits during games.
As chief spokesperson and fund-raiser for the University, how does he view national television exposure versus music performances which are never televised or shown in the news media?
That might enlighten us on the pep band and student attendance etc.
Excellent question, he is chief amongst the public face of the university. If he delegates the majority of home games to the AD then that says much.
Missing a game due to important university events, board meetings etc will happen. I'd really like to hear from those plugged in on this subject.
Great point!
Quote from: VU2014 on February 13, 2018, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 13, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
Quote from: M on February 13, 2018, 08:49:32 AM
I think the pep band does a fine job with what they're given to work with...I do miss the the drummers during the introductions though.
That.
Agreed. I hope the Athletics Department reaches out to the music department this offseason and works something out. Someone mentioned the Music Department basically "sabotaged" the pep band in the past which is a shame. That's where I'd go to the higher ups to put the kibosh on their bs. I think the half-credit idea would get the job done as well as maybe getting a GA to become a instructor.
This situation has continued so long without a remedy that we now have a new generation of Crusader fans suggesting the same common sense solutions that older fans proposed 5, 10, 15 years ago. How sad is that?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 13, 2018, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 13, 2018, 10:57:32 AM
I forgot to ask where the President usually sits during games.
As chief spokesperson and fund-raiser for the University, how does he view national television exposure versus music performances which are never televised or shown in the news media?
That might enlighten us on the pep band and student attendance etc.
Excellent question, he is chief amongst the public face of the university. If he delegates the majority of home games to the AD then that says much.
Missing a game due to important university events, board meetings etc will happen. I'd really like to hear from those plugged in on this subject.
Great point!
This is brilliant! So at our next opportunity (hopefully Sat night vs Bradley) we surround them and implore, engage, poke, prod, needle and cajole until at half time we are "en masse" relocated by security into section D directly behind Brian Wardle where we can use our talents to annoy the opposition. :thumbsup: I'm in!
President Heckler was across the aisle from us in the chairback section at the IL St game. He was not in his seat the second half. Mayber the poor showing from the Student Body embarrassed him. :)
Quote from: valpo64 on February 13, 2018, 12:36:11 PM
President Heckler was across the aisle from us in the chairback section at the IL St game. He was not in his seat the second half. Mayber the poor showing from the Student Body embarrassed him. :)
I know he is often in the hospitality room entertaining guests and donors.
Let's the student section DID embarrass him.
You CAN'T say the bad team performance is key factor. We had very poor attendance and energy from students last year. That team featured a future NBA player and played a good early season schedule.
General apathy and no proactive work by staff. indeed the Greeks are disappointing. I am tempted to post my photo of Bakari shooting a free throw with score showing 70-54 fresh from our big 16-2 run. Behind him across the ARC to the west are about 20 students scattered across the bleachers. All are sitting or even reclining. None have fallen asleep though. Will probably post it soon.
Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2018, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on February 13, 2018, 12:36:11 PM
President Heckler was across the aisle from us in the chairback section at the IL St game. He was not in his seat the second half. Mayber the poor showing from the Student Body embarrassed him. :)
I know he is often in the hospitality room entertaining guests and donors.
Which, by the way, is a primary function for his job.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 12, 2018, 11:22:40 PMOk...a Torch story? . Fine. But the horse has almost left the 2017-2018 barn in terms of a news story. Why not do the story next November...
Do it now. We might find out something we aren't aware of or, even if we are, maybe some steps can be taken to rectify the situation.
Here is the problem: We aren't a very good team. I watched the UNI-Evansville game last night and UNI, which was tied with us for last, drew 3346 to the game which is 47% of capacity. I doubt there were that many at the game and there as no evidence of a student section at all. They have historically drawn very well as have we. I suspect that our fair weather fans may return (including the students) once we return to playing at a higher level.
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2018, 09:16:15 AM
Here is the problem: We aren't a very good team. I watched the UNI-Evansville game last night and UNI, which was tied with us for last, drew 3346 to the game which is 47% of capacity. I doubt there were that many at the game and there as no evidence of a student section at all. They have historically drawn very well as have we. I suspect that our fair weather fans may return (including the students) once we return to playing at a higher level.
This doesn't explain the lack of attendance last year when Valpo had a good team with an NBA player in his senior year. Last year the official home attendance average was 3086 and this year the average is down only to 2751. That team won 24 games and was 15-2 at home. Alec Peters' final home game, a senior night for Hamminck and Adekoya as well, only drew 3512 for a first-place team.
Quote from: valpopal on February 14, 2018, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2018, 09:16:15 AM
Here is the problem: We aren't a very good team. I watched the UNI-Evansville game last night and UNI, which was tied with us for last, drew 3346 to the game which is 47% of capacity. I doubt there were that many at the game and there as no evidence of a student section at all. They have historically drawn very well as have we. I suspect that our fair weather fans may return (including the students) once we return to playing at a higher level.
This doesn't explain the lack of attendance last year when Valpo had a good team with an NBA player in his senior year. Last year the official home attendance average was 3086 and this year the average is down only to 2751. That team won 24 games and was 15-2 at home. Alec Peters' final home game, a senior night for Hamminck and Adekoya as well, only drew 3512 for a first-place team.
You are talking about a pretty big gap, do you think that (on average) 300+ students attended games at any point in the last 20-years? The student section holds maybe 125-150 students.
I'm not going to blame a big gap like that only on students. Welcome to 2018! I only attended two games this year so far....2-hour drives have a lot to do with that but my point is ESPN3 is GLORIOUS!
That has to be a huge chunk of the 300+ declines. Again, contributing not all encompassing. And that is not going to change for the good, get ready for a net-net or decline in the future. DONT BUILD A 6,500 SEAT ARENA, IT WONT FILL.
JUST WIN, BABY!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 14, 2018, 12:49:07 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 14, 2018, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2018, 09:16:15 AM
Here is the problem: We aren't a very good team. I watched the UNI-Evansville game last night and UNI, which was tied with us for last, drew 3346 to the game which is 47% of capacity. I doubt there were that many at the game and there as no evidence of a student section at all. They have historically drawn very well as have we. I suspect that our fair weather fans may return (including the students) once we return to playing at a higher level.
This doesn't explain the lack of attendance last year when Valpo had a good team with an NBA player in his senior year. Last year the official home attendance average was 3086 and this year the average is down only to 2751. That team won 24 games and was 15-2 at home. Alec Peters' final home game, a senior night for Hamminck and Adekoya as well, only drew 3512 for a first-place team.
You are talking about a pretty big gap, do you think that (on average) 300+ students attended games at any point in the last 20-years? The student section holds maybe 125-150 students.
I'm not going to blame a big gap like that only on students. Welcome to 2018! I only attended two games this year so far....2-hour drives have a lot to do with that but my point is ESPN3 is GLORIOUS!
That has to be a huge chunk of the 300+ declines. Again, contributing not all encompassing. And that is not going to change for the good, get ready for a net-net or decline in the future. DONT BUILD A 6,500 SEAT ARENA, IT WONT FILL.
Actually, in 2008-2009, the student check in rate was about 500 per men's home game (students physically swiped their ID cards). I don't have the exact number, but it was high. That number was bolstered by 1600 (yes, one thousand, six hundred) who checked in for the Butler game.
The student section has 444 seats, if I remember the number correctly. It's in that ballpark.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 14, 2018, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 14, 2018, 12:49:07 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 14, 2018, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2018, 09:16:15 AM
Here is the problem: We aren't a very good team. I watched the UNI-Evansville game last night and UNI, which was tied with us for last, drew 3346 to the game which is 47% of capacity. I doubt there were that many at the game and there as no evidence of a student section at all. They have historically drawn very well as have we. I suspect that our fair weather fans may return (including the students) once we return to playing at a higher level.
This doesn't explain the lack of attendance last year when Valpo had a good team with an NBA player in his senior year. Last year the official home attendance average was 3086 and this year the average is down only to 2751. That team won 24 games and was 15-2 at home. Alec Peters' final home game, a senior night for Hamminck and Adekoya as well, only drew 3512 for a first-place team.
You are talking about a pretty big gap, do you think that (on average) 300+ students attended games at any point in the last 20-years? The student section holds maybe 125-150 students.
I'm not going to blame a big gap like that only on students. Welcome to 2018! I only attended two games this year so far....2-hour drives have a lot to do with that but my point is ESPN3 is GLORIOUS!
That has to be a huge chunk of the 300+ declines. Again, contributing not all encompassing. And that is not going to change for the good, get ready for a net-net or decline in the future. DONT BUILD A 6,500 SEAT ARENA, IT WONT FILL.
Good to hear about the 500+, that's awesome. But there is zero chance the student section holds that many. Are they middle schoolers 😜
Actually, in 2008-2009, the student check in rate was about 500 per men's home game (students physically swiped their ID cards). I don't have the exact number, but it was high. That number was bolstered by 1600 (yes, one thousand, six hundred) who checked in for the Butler game.
The student section has 444 seats, if I remember the number correctly. It's in that ballpark.
As far as the pep band and Music departments relationship goes I never got the sense that the music department never tried to sabotage the pep band, they just never really promoted it in any way. I was in the top concert and the pep band at Valpo and Dr. Doebler (director of the concert band) never had anything against the pep, heck his son was in it for a few years, all he asked is that you show up to rehearsal. The issue is that all of the music groups only have 3 rehearsals a week and because there is no "music major only" ensemble they have to schedule rehearsals in the evening when all the other non music majors are out of class. During basketball season I would leave straight from band to get to the basketball games half an hour after call time for the pep band. This got rough especially in later years (when I was living off campus without a meal plan and spent my entire time on campus with out returning home until after my last campus event was finished) because I would spend 12+ hours a day on campus during basketball days with only eating breakfast before 10 and eating dinner after 9. So moral of the story is is that the time commitment of being in pep band and a music ensemble is not something that most students can commit to
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2018, 09:16:15 AM
Here is the problem: We aren't a very good team. I watched the UNI-Evansville game last night and UNI, which was tied with us for last, drew 3346 to the game which is 47% of capacity. I doubt there were that many at the game and there as no evidence of a student section at all. They have historically drawn very well as have we. I suspect that our fair weather fans may return (including the students) once we return to playing at a higher level.
God, I thank you that I am not like other people--especially those fair-weather fans.
I saw some videos of past games, and noticed how lively the student section, and then I realized why students don't come to games. It's because they're bored at the games. They're bored at the games because they themselves are boring people. Historically, for the students, the game itself is only half of the entertainment. The other half comes from their own antics and good times. Since these students don't know how to make their own fun, then the game experience is only half the fun that it was in years past. I cannot imagine this student crowd doing some of the things that the students did just a few years ago. I honestly don't think that they understand that no fun will come as a group if everyone in the group is texting.
So, my suggestion for the suggestion box in getting better student attendance is to either 1) get new students, or 2) show the students that the missing fun needs to come from themselves. Maybe ask them to put down the phones for a minute, and then show on the video board videos of past experiences - that it is possible to make one's own fun. Those videos are on Youtube.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/964626293835948033
Paul Oren: "Coach what do you think of the crowds this season?"
Coach Lottich: "I think the home games have been good this year."
My reaction: (https://media1.giphy.com/media/l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS/200w.gif)
Pretty telling when the Coach even comments on how piss poor the student section has. How hard is it not sit. Sit during half time.
Students are what students are. While some general criticism is warranted, I hate to fall into the trap of telling current students how they should act, because I didn't like it when I was a student and people complained about "Were gonna best the hell outta you."
Again, what is needed is a PROactive response to the issue, for student leadership to sit down with someone from the athletics staff and someone from the coaching staff and start to work on next year now.
Honestly beer and some tailgate parties before-hand would go a long way. It's understandable students don't want to watch their their team score only 50 some points or see 55 free throws between the two teams. The student section will come back with better play, but in the mean time, the athletics department should try to make it more worthwhile for students to come.
Until we play better the athletic department should offer them free tickets, free shirts, free sandwiches, free pizza, chance to win concert tickets.....oh right they already do that. 🤷♂️
Quote from: a3uge on February 16, 2018, 06:28:03 PM
Honestly beer and some tailgate parties before-hand would go a long way. It's understandable students don't want to watch their their team score only 50 some points or see 55 free throws between the two teams. The student section will come back with better play, but in the mean time, the athletics department should try to make it more worthwhile for students to come.
Not a awful idea. I wonder if the University would ever embrace pre-gaming party at a bar for fans and Junior and Senior students who are over the age of 21, then have a bus take fans/of age students to the arena. Make the it an event. I bet you that would boost attendance.
I had friends who went to Marquette who had this set up before weekend games. I tagged along one time and it was a good time.
Finally in the last game of the season, it looked like the students were having some fun in the stands
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 24, 2018, 11:20:07 PM
Finally in the last game of the season, it looked like the students were having some fun in the stands
It looked like a pretty solid turnout in the student section. But once again it sounds like there were students scattered around the ARC.
In ML's interview with Paul and Parker on Union Street Hoops he floated the idea of moving the students or maybe the band behind the opposing teams bench. Loyola just made that switch this year and they saw increased turnout. I'm sure the increased turnout probably has more to do with Loyola's success this season but they seem be pulling out all the stops to get their students to turnout.
I'm not sure if it makes good business sense to give those seat behind the benches to students, because I believe those seats could be sold for a higher price. I know they usually put the opposing fans behind their bench, maybe consider moving them somewhere else and be less accommodating. I kind of like the idea of putting the band right behind the opposing teams bench to make it loud and annoying. Make them as uncomfortable as possible.
After listening to Mark LeBarbara say he'd consider moving the student section to the middle of the court (Section C), I was rather offended. As a season ticket holder in section C myself, there are A LOT of season ticket holders around us. And, we are very involved. So, let's move our seats elsewhere, despite paying for them, to potentially have them not taken up by students who aren't attending games? Brilliant marketing move, said no one ever. Really hurts. Season ticket holder appreciation night, for instance, we received what? A generic thank you on the board. Best case scenario for his plan, students come to the games and fill up section C. Then, what? Spectators paying $12/game who are going to be competing to sit in sections B and D won't be able to see unless they too stand. Paul Oren recognized how many longtime season ticket holders sit in the chair backs, but what about those of us who would have our seats taken? Here's an idea: talk to us as well. We've proven our commitment to the program. Rather discouraging...
Sounds like it's just an idea he floated out there...like arming teachers. It's an idea that can be discussed but most definitely shouldn't be the solution.
Quote from: VU2010 on February 25, 2018, 08:47:12 AM
After listening to Mark LeBarbara say he'd consider moving the student section to the middle of the court (Section C), I was rather offended. As a season ticket holder in section C myself, there are A LOT of season ticket holders around us. And, we are very involved. So, let's move our seats elsewhere, despite paying for them, to potentially have them not taken up by students who aren't attending games? Brilliant marketing move, said no one ever. Really hurts. Season ticket holder appreciation night, for instance, we received what? A generic thank you on the board. Best case scenario for his plan, students come to the games and fill up section C. Then, what? Spectators paying $12/game who are going to be competing to sit in sections B and D won't be able to see unless they too stand. Paul Oren recognized how many longtime season ticket holders sit in the chair backs, but what about those of us who would have our seats taken? Here's an idea: talk to us as well. We've proven our commitment to the program. Rather discouraging...
I doubt they'll displace any season ticket holders or even make that switch. ML just said everything is on the table. There is no harm in discussing it but I think once they weigh the pros/cons it probably wouldn't be worth it.
Thoughts on putting the band in Section E? Yea or nay?
Ideally I'd love for sections: A, B, C, D, and E to get chairbacks in the near future and add chairbacks or maybe pullout bleachers where the concessions endzone is to make the ARC more aesthetically pleasing.
(http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/7A570B31-2B82-4B28-838B-7C0D4C72A0DF/b-ball%20court%20seating%20chart.png)
Quote from: VU2014 on February 25, 2018, 02:56:21 PM
Quote from: VU2010 on February 25, 2018, 08:47:12 AM
After listening to Mark LeBarbara say he'd consider moving the student section to the middle of the court (Section C), I was rather offended. As a season ticket holder in section C myself, there are A LOT of season ticket holders around us. And, we are very involved. So, let's move our seats elsewhere, despite paying for them, to potentially have them not taken up by students who aren't attending games? Brilliant marketing move, said no one ever. Really hurts. Season ticket holder appreciation night, for instance, we received what? A generic thank you on the board. Best case scenario for his plan, students come to the games and fill up section C. Then, what? Spectators paying $12/game who are going to be competing to sit in sections B and D won't be able to see unless they too stand. Paul Oren recognized how many longtime season ticket holders sit in the chair backs, but what about those of us who would have our seats taken? Here's an idea: talk to us as well. We've proven our commitment to the program. Rather discouraging...
I doubt they'll misplace any season ticket holders or even make that switch. ML just said everything is on the table. There is no harm in discussing it but I think once they weigh the pros/cons it probably wouldn't be worth it.
Thoughts on putting the band in Section E? Yea or nay?
Ideally I'd love for sections: A, B, C, D, and E to get chairbacks in the near future and add chairbacks or maybe pullout bleachers where the concessions endzone is to make the ARC more aesthetically pleasing.
Mark LaBarbera's paraphrased response from Summer, 2017 interview when asked about possible future ARC enhancements: "Heckler and I haven't even talked about it."
pipe dreamn a fanciful or impossible plan or hope
[alluding to dreams produced by smoking an opium pipe]
I don't recall ever seeing a pep band located behind the visitor's bench. So would the Crusaderettes then be in front of the visitor's bench? Of course not. I wonder if The Valley would even allow it?
IMHO, this is a nonworkable idea.
I agree...no way they put the band behind the either bench.
I do remember being entertained when the band would walk on the court and point their instruments right at the enemy huddle during a timeout.
Quote from: M on February 25, 2018, 05:20:59 PM
I agree...no way they put the band behind the either bench.
I do remember being entertained when the band would walk on the court and point their instruments right at the enemy huddle during a timeout.
As I recall the Horizon League made VU move the band from the East side of the student section to the west side, to get it away from the visitor's bench.
Quote from: valpospartan on February 25, 2018, 05:27:32 PM
Quote from: M on February 25, 2018, 05:20:59 PM
I agree...no way they put the band behind the either bench.
I do remember being entertained when the band would walk on the court and point their instruments right at the enemy huddle during a timeout.
As I recall the Horizon League made VU move the band from the East side of the student section to the west side, to get it away from the visitor's bench.
I wonder if the Athletics Department would consider moving it back to the east side again. If I'm the athletics department I'd try and make the opposing team as a uncomfortable as possible. Everything from swapping the cushioned chairs to metal, putting the band right next to them, even up to putting bad lighting in the opposing teams locker-room. Wage psychological warfare and make them despise visiting the ARC.
Let's applaud our AD for being open and coming on the podcast, I'm very glad he's engaged. I understand why you'd be upset if they stole your seating for a meager Valparaizone turnout. I doubt that will happen.
I think he was simply saying ideas are out there, nothing is off the table.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 25, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
Let's applaud our AD for being open and coming on the podcast, I'm very glad he's engaged.
Amen. It's nice to hear the AD see's the problem we've talked about on this board and is looking for new ways to solve the problems.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 25, 2018, 05:47:40 PM
Quote from: valpospartan on February 25, 2018, 05:27:32 PM
Quote from: M on February 25, 2018, 05:20:59 PM
I agree...no way they put the band behind the either bench.
I do remember being entertained when the band would walk on the court and point their instruments right at the enemy huddle during a timeout.
As I recall the Horizon League made VU move the band from the East side of the student section to the west side, to get it away from the visitor's bench.
I wonder if the Athletics Department would consider moving it back to the east side again. If I'm the athletics department I'd try and make the opposing team as a uncomfortable as possible. Everything from swapping the cushioned chairs to metal, putting the band right next to them, even up to putting bad lighting in the opposing teams locker-room. Wage psychological warfare and make them despise visiting the ARC.
I could see moving the band to the upper middle of the Zone. Logical. But now you're going off the reservation with the other ideas. But I understand the temptation.
This talk of moving the Student Section seems pretty dumb. As some have said, you need room to lead the group.
I have not taken specific note, but I think nearly all schools put the students behind one of the hoops. You see them waving and yelling at the FT shooters that way. Duke would be the only exception I have seen. And with their tradition, I suspect fans are still willing to pay very good money to sit elsewhere either above or outside the "Crazies" section.
Dumb idea. Shouldn't need to bribe students with better seats. Recruit kids who are proud of their school.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 25, 2018, 07:17:42 PM
I could see moving the band to the upper middle of the Zone. Logical. But now you're going off the reservation with the other ideas. But I understand the temptation.
Haha probably. Very Belichickian ;)
Aside from the Valparaizone sign behind the west basket, are there more things that can be done to enhance the physical zone environment for students to want to be there (IF they even come to a game, of course)?
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 25, 2018, 09:35:38 PM
This talk of moving the Student Section seems pretty dumb. As some have said, you need room to lead the group.
I have not taken specific note, but I think nearly all schools put the students behind one of the hoops. You see them waving and yelling at the FT shooters that way. Duke would be the only exception I have seen. And with their tradition, I suspect fans are still willing to pay very good money to sit elsewhere either above or outside the "Crazies" section.
Dumb idea. Shouldn't need to bribe students with better seats. Recruit kids who are proud of their school.
Loyola's students sit in the section opposite the team benches. They try to stand most of the game but sit during time outs.
Quote from: bbtds on February 26, 2018, 11:38:51 AM
Loyola's students sit in the section opposite the team benches. They try to stand most of the game but sit during time outs.
That's just a culture thing. If most students are standing the rest will end up standing. If most students are sitting it will make you feel weird to stand. It's a "peer-pressure" type thing.
have more quick events between timeouts. Drake does this and it was actually pretty cool.
One issue at Valpo is lack of pubs and restaurants near the ARC. Drake has several good ones since it is in the Des Moines city limits.
from December 2013...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGc0Q-7Vjh8
February 10, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFuw3v2ooQM
January 11, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPZxhmOLKGo
December 7, 2016... yes, it's a different atmosphere in the SEC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf64Nvzqwuc
November 12, 2014
Now this one ... we should arrange to do this type of presentation at every home game...it never gets old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMNd_gI6alw
Aren't these more half time stuff? I think the idea was to do more things in the 60 secs during time outs like tee shirt cannons and quick stunts.
UWM & UWGB rEally maxed that sort of thing at their venues. (Only away venues I was able to attend).
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 25, 2018, 09:35:38 PMI have not taken specific note, but I think nearly all schools put the students behind one of the hoops. You see them waving and yelling at the FT shooters that way. Duke would be the only exception I have seen.
I'm pretty sure at Illinois, and also I think at Cal-Berkeley, the students get something like an entire sideline.
Quote from: agibson on February 26, 2018, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 25, 2018, 09:35:38 PMI have not taken specific note, but I think nearly all schools put the students behind one of the hoops. You see them waving and yelling at the FT shooters that way. Duke would be the only exception I have seen.
I'm pretty sure at Illinois, and also I think at Cal-Berkeley, the students get something like an entire sideline.
Maryland's student section is first rows of nearly the entire lower bowl, and an entire endzone:
(https://i.imgur.com/w5StJmo.jpg)
Which leads to scenes like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtnE410-NBQ
So... if you have ever read the old TORCH articles (I mean OLD, like 1925-era)... the basketball team (and football) were on the front page of every edition. BUT about getting the crowd out... almost every home game was a double-header... game 1 was "Intramural"... where all of the scores were kept, rankings maintained and some real grudge matches appeared...These Intramural teams were college-based (Commerce vs. Engineers; Education vs. Preps)... and the Pharmics were a team with whom to be reckoned!
Now that might draw in a crowd...
In the early 60's there were some prelim games. They included freshman games(Frosh were not eligible for varsity play) vs. the same school the Varsity played, once a year the Intra-mural all-star team played the freshman team. What about a women's game as a prelim? Some years ago I recall our women's team played Indiana U(yes, the B-Town one) and we beat the daylights out of them. It was fun to watch and our gals probably reacted to a larger crowd than they were used to.
Don't think they can run women/men back to backs because of ESPN3.
But couldn't the Intramurals have a game in Hilltop before the regular scheduled game in the ARC? I was really surprised to see the 1925 The Gym Schedule had the intramural game starting at 7 and the 'varsity' game starting at 8... didn't leave a lot of time warm-ups. But Valpo High played their games in The Gym (VHS-Crown Point is on one of the schedules; and they got to practice just like the intramurals.
Can we get Coach Lottich do this mid-game but instead tell them to stand up and cheer? ;)
https://twitter.com/barstooltweetss/status/968307419410501633
Quote from: talksalot on February 27, 2018, 03:10:08 PM
But couldn't the Intramurals have a game in Hilltop before the regular scheduled game in the ARC? I was really surprised to see the 1925 The Gym Schedule had the intramural game starting at 7 and the 'varsity' game starting at 8... didn't leave a lot of time warm-ups. But Valpo High played their games in The Gym (VHS-Crown Point is on one of the schedules; and they got to practice just like the intramurals.
Boucher Gym at Ben Franklin Middle School was a shared facility with Valpo U in the 20's at one point so that is not unlikely.
Great stats and floor diagrams on Maryland etc. That is helpful to know. It certainly projects a better TV image to see lively students near the court.
Maybe put the students behind our own guys at the far end section 10 people wide near the cheerleaders. Then if you ever get the problem of an "overflow" open up the end sections again starting with the VU bench side.
What am I missing?
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 27, 2018, 04:53:05 PMIt certainly projects a better TV image to see lively students near the court.
And if the students are standing, then people behind them will need to stand!
In some arenas, don't some student sections have no way to sit — i.e. just standing platforms ?
Moving the students behind the benches would be a mistake. These are the seats that are clearly viewed by the cameras. With the poor showing of the students, it would appear no one comes out to the games and besides we have been playing like 3 or 4 games a year while students are on break meaning there would be no one there. These are the seats people are willing to pay for. Why leave them empty?
Interesting article about how Loyola's student section grew this season. It wasn't just success on the court that drew student turnout.
https://twitter.com/LUPhoenixSports/status/968908661887258624
Students Take Notice of Ramblers Success
By Kyle Brown
Published February 28, 2018 12:30 p.m. CT
As the final buzzer sounded in Loyola's 68-61 victory over Illinois State, Gentile Arena fans gave the Ramblers a standing ovation. The game further separated Loyola from the rest of the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) and marked the first time Gentile Arena has sold out since 2003.
The 4,963 people who showed up for the last home game of the year was a dramatic increase from the previous high of 3,592 earlier in the season against Missouri State University.
Loyola having its best season in 33 years played a large part in increased attendance, but another key factor is the growth of
The Pack, Loyola's official student section.
The Pack is led by Marty Breslin, a junior double-majoring in finance and sport management, who also interns in the athletics department.
"We thought this year The Pack's main objective would be to get people to the game," Breslin said. "But, we realized like half way through the year that people were going to come [and] we were going to get all of these students there and now
it was about keeping them engaged and making them as loud as possible."
With steady growing attendance, Breslin said The Pack was able to shift its focus from drawing fans into the stadium to
making more noise and energy during the game. One of the ways it went about this was the
creation of the "Rambler Rules," which are five "rules" for students to follow to keep them engaged all game while also creating a rowdy environment for the visiting team. The rules include being as loud as possible, not sitting down during the game and yelling "You let the whole team down," whenever an opponent misses a free throw.The combination of the Ramblers' success and the increased energy at the games has created a buzz around campus; this year has been special and students are taking notice.
Marisa Dickens, a sophomore dance and film major, said she's attended a few games this season.
"There has been a lot more participation in the game," Dickens said. "I performed a dance piece at halftime of one of the games and there were a lot of fans which was cool."
One way Loyola and The Pack have been able to build up student attendance and involvement is by creating unique opportunities for student participation within the game such as launching fake burritos for a Chipotle gift card, displaying unique talents such as the dance Dickens performed and shooting baskets in hopes of winning free books for a semester.Students are aware of the impact this season is having on Loyola as a whole.
"It says that we have a lot of diverse different groups that can perform well and are a good representation of Loyola, not just in academics but athletics as well," sophomore accounting major Paul Zougras said.
Breslin said he's excited about the future of The Pack. He's set for early graduation next fall, so he won't be as involved next season. However, he remains optimistic The Pack is in good hands and will continue to grow.
"Considering where we are setting the bar, I am so excited for where we can go from here," Breslin said. "We didn't know what we were going to end up with. We knew we were going to have a good team, people were going to show up, but we didn't know that they're going to show up in this many numbers and with this passion."
Huh....a student, or small group of students, can organize a successful student section....what a concept.
Wait, what? I thought Student Section "leaders" only had the ability to tweet from a phone and sit in their corner without leading cheers or asking their peers to stand... Weird.
How many student section leaders heap as much praise on a rival coach as these guys? :crazy: They love Moser but publicly bash their own coach on twitter. ???
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/969281645919522816
Simple question. Have the Valpo student leaders reached out to Matt to get him and the team involved with them? Granted, these are kids and they have a long way to go to develop the experience they need to navigate an adult world. And, I might add, the Athletic Department should be mentoring these guys. But still........
Quote from: Billy Co on March 01, 2018, 11:00:15 AM
Interesting article about how Loyola's student section grew this season. It wasn't just success on the court that drew student turnout.
Decades of indifference correlated with mediocrity at that school proves otherwise.
There ya go. Here is another perspective that might influence recruits and increase attendance: The crowd energy at every home game. Forget about the seat comfort, concessions or suites, players want to play before a rabid home crowd no matter how big or small every night. And even casual fans get off on the energy experience — that was fun! And it is proven that crazy students make the enviroonment. THAT should drive MLB and his staff in terms of investment.
Valpo has a great basketball program which is followed by many alumni friends and family. Fun to watch in the comfort of your home. Most would love to go to the ARC if they didn't live hundreds or thousands of miles away. Thanks to ESPN3 and others I was able to watch all but two games this year. Back in the Bartow years the old Hill Top Gym was packed with students because it was a major part of the college experience. The dorms emptied out, the fraternities and sororities attended, the pep band or whatever we called it made lots of noise. Students didn't have to be bribed with free pizza, tee shirts or gimmicks. Just tell today's students that the privilege of having student tickets will be taken away if they don't go to x% of the games. Three consecutive misses your tickets are given to some local high school student for the remainder of the season. :'( :'( :'(
Michigan State also has student seating along the sidelines, as well as the ends.
Random thought in regards to half times shows etc. We weren't eligible for any of the NCAA money from Wichita State's tourney runs, correct?
I wonder if there has been a budget crunch as money from Butler dried up in the HL and then not being eligible for the MVC this year? I'm not quite sure how it all worked but thought that might be a factor.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Random thought in regards to half times shows etc. We weren't eligible for any of the NCAA money from Wichita State's tourney runs, correct?
I wonder if there has been a budget crunch as money from Butler dried up in the HL and then not being eligible for the MVC this year? I'm not quite sure how it all worked but thought that might be a factor.
Why can't some halftime shows be supplied by internal talent? The university has a terrific jazz band that performs regularly in town at Duffy's. There are other groups of musicians in different genres. The campus dance ensemble could be contacted for a possible performance. The different cultural organizations on campus often have various forms of entertainment, such as a great step-dancing exhibition by members of the Black Student Organization I remember attending. In fact, a brief halftime performance would be a good way for these groups to generate interest for their full-scale shows on campus. How about fraternity and sorority participation with something similar to Songfest performances? In addition, I wonder about seeking talent from the Valparaiso community that would be willing to perform for publicity and promotion.
While we're taking about internal talent: I wonder why the university is able to put on a number of music concerts that have excellent volume and balanced sound, yet for years the pa system can't be tweaked to create better sound.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Random thought in regards to half times shows etc. We weren't eligible for any of the NCAA money from Wichita State's tourney runs, correct?
I wonder if there has been a budget crunch as money from Butler dried up in the HL and then not being eligible for the MVC this year? I'm not quite sure how it all worked but thought that might be a factor.
That may be the case but someone on the board mentioned that Mark LaBarbera is not big on spending for halftime shows and is of the thinking that the game is the real entertainment value. To be completely honest I share that view. I could careless about 10-15 minutes of a subpar halftime show. All I care about is winning. If I leave the ARC with Valpo getting a win against a QUALITY opponent, I'm a happy man. Emphasis on the QUALITY. Please bring quality opponents into the ARC and not Non-D1s... if we have to play 1 for strategic reason, so be it but I likely won't show up to that game. Maybe that's just me. I know others feel differently about the need for halftime shows.
Maybe funds were redirected to give coaches raises when when made the switch to the MVC. It's extremely important to pay coaches/assistants competitive salaries to their peers in the same conference. I have no clue what Coach Lottich's salary is but I'd guess it's less then the salary Bryce made on his extensions (new buyout insurance).
I heard from a pretty good source that Porter Moser is making a little over $400,000 at Loyola and is likely going to be getting a raise after this season because of how well they performed and they know they're likely to lose him in the near future. Is Lottich making anything close to that?? I thought Bryce's contract extension paid him in the $200k range. Wright State is paying Scott Nagy $500,000 in the Horizon League! I hope the Athletics Department has a plan to stay competitive with coaches salaries at this level. Coaching and recruiting is literally the life blood of a program.
VU14 - You're right on target. Dump the non D1 games. Forget about the 1/2 Time gigs and focus on QUALITY Valpo basketball. That's what fans want. :cheers:
Quote from: VU2014 on March 08, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Random thought in regards to half times shows etc. We weren't eligible for any of the NCAA money from Wichita State's tourney runs, correct?
I wonder if there has been a budget crunch as money from Butler dried up in the HL and then not being eligible for the MVC this year? I'm not quite sure how it all worked but thought that might be a factor.
That may be the case but someone on the board mentioned that Mark LaBarbera is not big on spending for halftime shows and is of the thinking that the game is the real entertainment value. To be completely honest I share that view. I could careless about 10-15 minutes of a subpar halftime show. All I care about is winning. If I leave the ARC with Valpo getting a win against a QUALITY opponent, I'm a happy man. Emphasis on the QUALITY. Please bring quality opponents into the ARC and not Non-D1s... if we have to play 1 for strategic reason, so be it but I likely won't show up to that game. Maybe that's just me. I know others feel differently about the need for halftime shows.
Maybe funds were redirected to give coaches raises when when made the switch to the MVC. It's extremely important to pay coaches/assistants competitive salaries to their peers in the same conference. I have no clue what Coach Lottich's salary is but I'd guess it's less then the salary Bryce made on his extensions (new buyout insurance).
I heard from a pretty good source that Porter Moser is making a little over $400,000 at Loyola and is likely going to be getting a raise after this season because of how well they performed and they know they're likely to lose him in the near future. Is Lottich making anything close to that?? I thought Bryce's contract extension paid him in the $200k range. Wright State is paying Scott Nagy $500,000 in the Horizon League! I hope the Athletics Department has a plan to stay competitive with coaches salaries at this level. Coaching and recruiting is literally the life blood of a program.
Drew's contract was $377,464 in 2016. That was top few in the Horizon at the time. I think only Jeter was making more.
Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2018, 07:55:08 PM
Drew's contract was $377,464 in 2016. That was top few in the Horizon at the time. I think only Jeter was making more.
Maybe the $200k was his initial contract was around that amount. Everything is a blur. It feels like such a long time ago since Bryce was the HC. So much has happened the last 2 years.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 08, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Random thought in regards to half times shows etc. We weren't eligible for any of the NCAA money from Wichita State's tourney runs, correct?
I wonder if there has been a budget crunch as money from Butler dried up in the HL and then not being eligible for the MVC this year? I'm not quite sure how it all worked but thought that might be a factor.
That may be the case but someone on the board mentioned that Mark LaBarbera is not big on spending for halftime shows and is of the thinking that the game is the real entertainment value. To be completely honest I share that view. I could careless about 10-15 minutes of a subpar halftime show. All I care about is winning. If I leave the ARC with Valpo getting a win against a QUALITY opponent, I'm a happy man. Emphasis on the QUALITY. Please bring quality opponents into the ARC and not Non-D1s... if we have to play 1 for strategic reason, so be it but I likely won't show up to that game. Maybe that's just me. I know others feel differently about the need for halftime shows.
(new buyout insurance).
2014, you are contradicting yourself in agreeing that it is all about the game on the court. If you look back at your previous posts you have continually championed the TOTAL game experience over and over again. Valpopal has hit on a great concept — use the halftime period to expose fans to all the great dynamics of the university. It wil add variety and, ...........PROVIDED it is framed properly (i.e., within the spirit of an intense athletic event, i.e., no string ensamble unless they kick butt) it would add greatly to the game experience.
In that light, I work at Lambeau Field, and one of the greatest spirit generators there is something called the Tundra Line. It's a drum line that is incredibly good and it jazzes people up like crazy. If we could expand the Pep Band to include, say, ten more percussionists this could work wonders for getting people jacked and adding to the game experince. Here is a YouTube of a "drumoff" between them and the UW Badger drumline at the LSU/UW FB game. I believe no one else in the MVC has a drum line. That would make us unique. And it gets people absolutely jacked!
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVsd9RMJcxg
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 08, 2018, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 08, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Random thought in regards to half times shows etc. We weren't eligible for any of the NCAA money from Wichita State's tourney runs, correct?
I wonder if there has been a budget crunch as money from Butler dried up in the HL and then not being eligible for the MVC this year? I'm not quite sure how it all worked but thought that might be a factor.
That may be the case but someone on the board mentioned that Mark LaBarbera is not big on spending for halftime shows and is of the thinking that the game is the real entertainment value. To be completely honest I share that view. I could careless about 10-15 minutes of a subpar halftime show. All I care about is winning. If I leave the ARC with Valpo getting a win against a QUALITY opponent, I'm a happy man. Emphasis on the QUALITY. Please bring quality opponents into the ARC and not Non-D1s... if we have to play 1 for strategic reason, so be it but I likely won't show up to that game. Maybe that's just me. I know others feel differently about the need for halftime shows.
(new buyout insurance).
2014, you are contradicting yourself in agreeing that it is all about the game on the court. If you look back at your previous posts you have continually championed the TOTAL game experience over and over again. Valpopal has hit on a great concept — use the halftime period to expose fans to all the great dynamics of the university. It wil add variety and, ...........PROVIDED it is framed properly (i.e., within the spirit of an intense athletic event, i.e., no string ensamble unless they kick butt) it would add greatly to the game experience.
In that light, I work at Lambeau Field, and one of the greatest spirit generators there is something called the Tundra Line. It's a drum line that is incredibly good and it jazzes people up like crazy. If we could expand the Pep Band to include, say, ten more percussionists this could work wonders for getting people jacked and adding to the game experince. Here is a YouTube of a "drumoff" between them and the UW Badger drumline at the LSU/UW FB game. I believe no one else in the MVC has a drum line. That would make us unique. And it gets people absolutely jacked!
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVsd9RMJcxg
Opinions change
VULB#62, I may have been for halftime shows at one point, I don't know. To be clear, I'm not against them. I just think when we have a finite budget, it's not the most important thing. I've always been for improving the gameday experience but I'm not sure a costly 10-15 minute half time show makes a world of difference, unless we're bringing in a cultural sensation like 'Red Panda' that is likely out of our budget for a halftime performance.
Everything is on table, imo. If great halftime shows are a deal breaker for most people then I'm all for it. Whatever it takes to improve the gameday experience and improve the attendance. But I do agree the kids playing at halftime is beyond getting old now. Maybe cut that down to a once per season and make it against a non-d1, when you're not going to draw much attendance anyways. I think there are obvious things that need to be fixed like the parking, helping the pep band, improving student attendance/enthusiasm and teaching the cheers, fixing the speaker system, improving the music choice, & improving the concessions. I think we could also pull from OU on their new cheerleading/spirit squad during the games. I'm not sure if anyone has been to an Oakland game but they really make the cheerleading/spirit squad a key feature of the entertainment during timeouts to hold the fans attention. They did really well performed dance routines and acrobatic flips and stuff. I just think a lot of the little things could be improved to enhance the gameday experience that would add up. Obviously a ARC renovation is needed and would significantly at enhance the gameday experience but we all know where that stands.
Ultimately winning and bringing in quality opponents are the most important thing and always will be.
I love the idea of gettng student groups in to do that halftime shows. It's a great way to connect Athletics to other parts of student life and to maybe get students who haven't experienced a game in the student section.
I think as much as we demand the students come and support their team there is something about the teams moving through other parts of campus AND them inviting others to their game experience.
I'm not a fan of spending for halftime entertainment. If groups want to perform for free great. I don't mind the youth basketball either, just make sure you don't get teams who have the same colors are our opponents. I like the relative quiet at halftime and the opportunity to visit with the people who are at the game with me.
I'm okay with the Athletics Department filling most games with cheap halftime entertainment. They should just get more creative and also start addressing more pressing issues with the gameday experience.
Ideas:
-dedicate a halftime show to introducing the incoming signed recruiting classes for all sports and honor them at halftime. Introduce them to the fan-base and play their highlights on the jumbrotron. It would also bring their friends and family to game and would fill extra seats.
-Jazz Band (free)
-Songfest is in the Spring but it would be awesome if the could get the Top 2 songfest winners to perform at halftime because those were always fun. Not to mention you'd get all of Greek Life to attend. Maybe they could move up Songfest to February?
-invest in creating a drum line? That would be pretty cool. Only mandate they perform during Men's Basketball games and football games.
-Play new games during the halftime
-A crowd-pleaser is always getting the football players to do a silly dance routine with the cheerleaders
-Start taking the cheerleading and crusaderettes more seriously. I don't want to be critical but our school doesn't even come close to other schools in terms of competitive cheerleading/dance squads. If you go to other schools games it's more of a big part of the games and it's actually pretty entertaining.
Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEBJLJqPxQ
Speaking of football players..
I remember a halftime back in the 60's: Coach Reiner put members of the football team on the court to play basketball while wearing 16 oz boxing gloves. As I recall, they were only allowed to punch the person with the ball.
I certainly enjoyed watching it.
I don't think it was ever repeated.
Cheap entertainment.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 09, 2018, 01:28:58 PM
Speaking of football players..
I remember a halftime back in the 60's: Coach Reiner put members of the football team on the court to play basketball while wearing 16 oz boxing gloves. As I recall, they were only allowed to punch the person with the ball.
I certainly enjoyed watching it.
I don't think it was ever repeated.
Cheap entertainment.
Hahaha really? I'm not going to lie that would entertaining to watch. Couldn't do that these days.
The people in charge of halftime entertainment need to contact Merrillville High School.
During the game against Valpo High this year, Merrillville's drum line performed an awesome routine.
Need to get them in here while Mileek is still on the team.
Illinois State has a drum line but they also have a Marching Band that they bring out for the football games. Having a marching band at a school as small as Valparaiso might not make financial sense, because I'm guessing it requires scholarships. If they could figure out a way to bring back the marching band here without having to give out many scholarships, would be cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0irxrHJ89M
All great ideas. The drum line is awesome at my daughter's high school! Anything to create noise in the mausoleum. (credit to Chris Berman.)
However, the game atmosphere is most influenced by the student enthusiasm. That was the thread topic. Simply put, the kids have to give a s&#t about the games at some point. Can we (VU staff) force that?
The only chance seems to be coordinated Greek effort. Apparently at VU a system that ostensibly fosters leadership has none among its fraternities.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 09, 2018, 01:50:35 PM
All great ideas. The drum line is awesome at my daughter's high school! Anything to create noise in the mausoleum. (credit to Chris Berman.)
However, the game atmosphere is most influenced by the student enthusiasm. That was the thread topic. Simply put, the kids have to give a s&#t about the games at some point. Can we (VU staff) force that?
The only chance seems to be coordinated Greek effort. Apparently at VU a system that ostensibly fosters leadership has none among its fraternities.
Everything that happens with Greek Life starts and ends with the Dean of Students for Greek Life, Carrrie Whittier. Some would call her more of a dictator then a Dean... If the athletics department wants to coordinate with Greek Life it's going to have to go through her.
I'm not sure what the hell happened to Greek Life participation the last 2 years. It literally fell off a cliff and the ironic thing is 2 of the guys on the team are members of 2 different fraternities. Noticeably the Phi Psi's and Sig Eps are less active then they use to be. Somewhere along the way the culture of going to games was lost in Greek Life.
Since when would a single fraternity or two need to clear a plan to go to a game together? Where are the cohones?....and an IFC? What the ????
And yes......now that you say it.....the student enthusiasm did dive off last year as well as this one.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the lousy student turnout last year shows that the student problem has NOTHING to do with the team performance! Yes, the loyal town fans were probably down due to the team record. But the students deserted Alec last year.
Attitude reflects leadership.
We should invite Bill Walton to do a game at the ARC, where he can discuss the brilliance of Chapel architecture, the genius of Ginger Zee in her weather analysis and where Raoul Duke had an herbal gathering at the old TKE house.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 09, 2018, 01:49:43 PM
Illinois State has a drum line but they also have a Marching Band that they bring out for the football games. Having a marching band at a school as small as Valparaiso might not make financial sense, because I'm guessing it requires scholarships. If they could figure out a way to bring back the marching band here without having to give out many scholarships, would be cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0irxrHJ89M
Butler has a marching band that plays at all home football games. Valpo used to have a full marching band in the 60s. As I recall they were pretty good too.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 10, 2018, 10:37:44 AM
Butler has a marching band that plays at all home football games. Valpo used to have a full marching band in the 60s. As I recall they were pretty good too.
I became curious and started looking into it. Butler offers a "Credit & Tuition Reduction" for all members of the pep band. I think Valpo could benefit from something similar: "Marching Band counts as a core Physical Well Being (PWB) requirement and comes with a $100 tuition remission for each semester of participation. The band rehearses 6 hours per week and is a welcome break from the academic day for students of nearly every academic discipline."
https://www.butler.edu/bands/ensembles
The students seemed to enjoy the 3-point shooting contest for the "Championship" at the senior night... why didn't we have all of the preliminary rounds leading up to that championship? Put up the "Bracket" ... follow your fraternity / Sorority / ResHall friend going through the bracket...
just a suggestion
Quote from: talksalot on March 10, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
The students seemed to enjoy the 3-point shooting contest for the "Championship" at the senior night... why didn't we have all of the preliminary rounds leading up to that championship? Put up the "Bracket" ... follow your fraternity / Sorority / ResHall friend going through the bracket...
just a suggestion
Love that idea.
I remember the Butler Band in the early 80s. They were fun to watch- sort of like Stanford but not vulgar.
I saw this posted on Facebook by Larry Mowry, ABC weather anchor in Chicago. I thought it really tells a story about how Valpo basketball was embraced at the THE SHOT. Could it come back via winning again? A great post by Larry.
Larry Mowry ABC7 shared CBS Sports's video.
47 mins ·
It was 20 years ago today that I saw a "miracle" ... according to the announcer!
I was a Sophomore at Valparaiso University. Eight of us piled into our friends mini-van and road tripped to Oklahoma City to watch Valpo in the first round of the NCAA tournament.
We were sitting about 10 rows up from the court on the other side of the key from where Bryce made "The Shot". I remember when the ball was in the air. It was almost like slow motion with everyone in the building holding their breath. Then the ball went thru the net and it was pure joy. We were sitting with the small contingent from Valpo that made the trip. I remember looking around our section as everyone was hugging anyone that was within reach and jumping non-stop. Many people were crying, pure emotional joy. It was Valpo's first win in the NCAA tournament after coming very close in the previous years.
Valpo is such a special place because of its size and sense of community. I can name pretty much every player and cheerleader who jumped on that pile at the end of the game. They were friends and classmates.
The story got even better because two days later we beat Florida State and made it to the Sweet 16.
For our group that piled in our friends minivan, we had no place to stay after that first win. So we drove from Oklahoma City to Dallas to crash on the floor of a friends house. Then we drove back to Oklahoma City for the second round game against Florida State. After we won that game, we drove all the way back to Valparaiso so we could make it to class the next day. Truth be told, there wasn't much learning going on that week at Valpo with the excitement of the basketball team.
This was a time when mid-major schools didn't beat the big guys like they do now. So this was huge. Media from around the country and world were setting up on campus to tell the story. And what a story it was.
And the momentum described in this account.......
All I can think is if only we had the current AD and administration during the time of "the shot." For whatever shortcomings many on here think they have, I have no doubt they would have done a better job capitalizing on that momentum than the folks in charge back then. Oh, to be given another chance to have a moment and opportunity like that.
I think that's a very unfair characterization of the former administration, both AD and Prez. I won't argue the point that we should have done more after the sweet sixteen run. We absolutely should have. But it was Bill Steinbrecher who hired Homer Drew. Without that hire where would the program be? ML has done a great job, but without his predecessor there might not have been a DI program to take over.
And sure, Harre wasn't big on athletics, but at least you know where he stood. And let's not forget the money to build all of Heckler's projects was there because Harre was a tremendous fundraiser. Go look at the endowment before and after his tenure. And Heckler can talk all he wants about athletics, and yet the ARC looks pretty much the same.
Don't get me wrong. All four of these men have been great leaders for this university, but let's be very careful on making broad characterizations of what people will or would have done outside of the context of their time.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/retiring-vu-athletic-director-william-steinbrecher-leaves-a-legacy-of/article_856030f4-d7c1-57dc-877f-23def15e82a3.html
Wasn't William Steinbrecher the AD that kept us in the old Mid-Con because his son was the commissioner of the Mid-Con? I remember someone mentioning that there was a potential case of nepotism from someone in the VU administration. I heard we had the chance to leave for the Horizon League earlier but someone was trying to keep us in the Mid-Con because their son was the commissioner. That is a pretty serious claim and could have set the athletics department back for years.
It looks like a Dr. Jon Steinbrecher (Valparaiso University graduate) was the commissioner of the Mid-Con and resigned from his position back in 2003 and became the commissioner of the Ohio Valley Conference. Now Jon Steinbrecher is the longtime commissioner of the MAC, which is a big step up because it has FBS football.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/steinbrecher-resigns-from-mid-con-post/article_4ad228af-4d42-507c-9b57-d66cabeccb9d.html
2014 - I am sure there was some level of nepotism for Valpo to stay in the Mid Con. However, from a discussion I had with Rod Moore back in mid 90s, there was serious animosity when UWM, UIC, Wright St., and UWGB moved from the Mid Con to the Horizon in a rapid and "unethical" manner and pretty much left Valpo and the Mid Con dry of teams. I believe Valpo wanted nothing to do with the Horizon league for awhile. also, I think Valpo came to realize the business and direction that is NCAA basketball.
He absolutely had a lot to do with Valpo staying in the Mid-Con, as he felt slighted by the move that you reference (since he was a founder of the Mid-Con), but his son also played into it, regardless of what anyone else might tell you. He set his son up well, as who knows what would have happened to that conference if we also left.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 14, 2018, 09:04:59 AM
Wasn't William Steinbrecher the AD that kept us in the old Mid-Con because his son was the commissioner of the Mid-Con? I remember someone mentioning that there was a potential case of nepotism from someone in the VU administration. I heard we had the chance to leave for the Horizon League earlier but someone was trying to keep us in the Mid-Con because their son was the commissioner. That is a pretty serious claim and could have set the athletics department back for years.
It looks like a Dr. Jon Steinbrecher (Valparaiso University graduate) was the commissioner of the Mid-Con and resigned from his position back in 2003 and became the commissioner of the Ohio Valley Conference. Now Jon Steinbrecher is the longtime commissioner of the MAC, which is a big step up because it has FBS football.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/steinbrecher-resigns-from-mid-con-post/article_4ad228af-4d42-507c-9b57-d66cabeccb9d.html
Yes to much of what you have said, others not so much. Valpo was just emerging to the upper third of the Mid-Con when the conference looked like it was going to implode because of the enmasse exodus of Cleveland State, UIC, NIU, Green Bay, Milwaukee and Wright State to the Horizon, leaving Valpo behind and new commissioner Jon Steinbrecher with the huge task of trying to keep their NCAA eligibility. This was a tough pill for the Steinbrecher's to swallow and now that it appeared we could dominate in basketball the administration was not all that eager to leave. I believe that the father son relationship played some role in us staying in the Mid-Con, but that its influence was overblown. Of maybe more importance was the relationships between Valpo and the 5 remaining schools that bolted in "94". The administration finally conceded that the travel costs in both time and money were too high and then the much talked about "special" membership agreement was put together with the Horizon. This is completely my "take" on the situation from conversations I had with President Harre and others when I was on the Alumni Board.
Something important to keep in mind here. Maybe we have been guilty of this; and if we have been, I pray it's not too late to fix it.
https://twitter.com/EricPMusselman/status/977610964525707265
But not exactly serving as the best student section leaders we've ever seen... It almost sounds like he's taking credit for Loyola's accomplishment just because their coach granted him an interview.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/977727463840276480
Apparently it's hard to create your own media brand AND come up with fresh ideas to get your fellow students to games.
Yeah when the students show up and are engaged... Right section leaders?
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/978311316342493184
The ARC was an above average environment maybe twice last year.
Back to the topic. Who the hell is Carrie Whittier in the bigger scheme of Greek Life interaction with focusing on the dates of basketball games.
Again, leadership starts at the top. She is only as powerful as the enabling she gets from those above her. Bureaucrats really annoy me.
We need to hear on this board from a couple of leaders of the fraternities. How will things be different next year? And if not, why not?
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 07, 2018, 02:41:02 PM
We need to hear on this board from a couple of leaders of the fraternities. How will things be different next year? And if not, why not?
I'm not to sure how many college kids hang around the Valpo Message Boards. I read the message board while I was in college but never made an account till after I graduated because I missed talking Valpo hoops with people.
I feel like it's going to take a few quality and outgoing student leaders to get the Student Section rowdy again. It seems to be cyclical. The Happening Hoops kids seem to be good kids and passionate fans but maybe they aren't the outgoing types that like to actually lead and go the extra mile like banging dorm doors or setting up tables in the student union. Natural leadership isn't within everyone.
I really think attendance starts and ends with the greek life though and other athletes like football players. If we get a charismatic student leaders of a greek life and other student groups it could get the students coming again. It will also take some coordination from the Athletics Department and Greek Life office to make sure no events overlap with games. Other things could probably be done to make the student section more fun again. The Athletics Department should try and make going to the games an event and "party" atmosphere.
Quote from: vufan75 on May 07, 2018, 10:39:01 AM
I noticed there have been focus type group meetings students were invited to this semester to see what ideas can be discussed or implemented to better encourage and develop student involvement and support for athletics. If I recall right I saw the post somewhere on Twitter last week. Might be a good starting point. Sorry I don't have a tweet link.
Very interesting. Would love to hear the results from these focus group meetings.
Paul Oren, any way you could get the person in the Athletics Department leading these efforts on the Podcast? That could be a very interesting offseason podcast guest. Student attendance the last 2 seasons has been a sizable concern on the forums. Would be a pretty interesting to hear the results and reasoning from students.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 07, 2018, 11:22:07 AMQuote from: vufan75 on May 07, 2018, 10:39:01 AMI noticed there have been focus type group meetings students were invited to this semester to see what ideas can be discussed or implemented to better encourage and develop student involvement and support for athletics. If I recall right I saw the post somewhere on Twitter last week. Might be a good starting point. Sorry I don't have a tweet link.
Very interesting. Would love to hear the results from these focus group meetings. Paul Oren, any way you could get the person in the Athletics Department leading these efforts on the Podcast? That could be a very interesting offseason podcast guest. Student attendance the last 2 seasons has been a sizable concern on the forums. Would be a pretty interesting to hear the results and reasoning from students.
I was part of one of those focus groups back in November. It was for season basketball ticket holders and concentrated on the game day experience and atmosphere.
The meeting started out by stating the reason for the focus group, which was initiated by Pres. Heckler, was to address certain requirements by the MVC for us as a new member school. There were to be several different and varied groups, people involved and not involved with the University some within the community some that were even out of state. It seemed they were also trying to find out people's perception or knowledge of VU itself.
I have no idea how many focus group there were or what they were focused on. Mine was mainly concentrated on game day experience and "facilities", asking how we felt about them and to a little extent how to improve them.
The meeting was conducted by a professor of marketing and the school's assistant director of marketing. After the meeting I e-mailed several suggestions and concerns. They were met with a thank you and keep sending in more ideas. So it seems the university is gathering input trying to decide on a plan of what to do, I just don't know what they will do with the information.
Probably just a coincident but one of my suggestions was to survey students and the Frats about their attendance or lack there of, and what would it take to increase their interest and attend the games.
They did focus groups of the students at the end of this semester as well. I know they sat down with fraternities and sororities as well as other students which focused on game day atmosphere and attendance.
I'm not sure fully what was discussed but I know some feelings that athletes maybe need to be more engaged in overall campus life a little more was brought up.
Quote from: crusader05 on May 08, 2018, 08:46:58 AM
They did focus groups of the students at the end of this semester as well. I know they sat down with fraternities and sororities as well as other students which focused on game day atmosphere and attendance.
I'm not sure fully what was discussed but I know some feelings that athletes maybe need to be more engaged in overall campus life a little more was brought up.
I'm glad to hear the outreach happened. Getting Greek Life back on board and restoring the culture is key.
Interesting to hear that athletes (& coaches) may need to get more engaged with student body. It makes sense. Vashil was such a blessing to the University in his time here because he was a great ambassador for the team and everyone loved Vashil because it felt like he was friends with everyone on campus. Those Broekhoff teams were also pretty popular on campus because the players on those teams were always eating lunch at Founders and were pretty noticeable faces all around campus. Maybe we've missed that the last couple years?
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to hear what was said in these focus group meetings.
Me Too.
I definitely think on smaller campuses with pretty extensive programming and student involvement you need to have a different kind of sales pitch to students. I do think there are a lot of things they can do to sell the games as fun and exciting and just work to cultivate a culture of going to the games. Especially with Freshman. That welcome week the events are crawling with upperclass members of fraternity and sorority both attending and hosting events. I don't know how much the athletes themselves are doing out there meeting people and pumping up the new students to be fans.
Two suggestions:
1) Frats could choose to require pledges to go the games and also consider rotating a number of actives on a voluntary basis. Frats require pledges to do plenty of trivial things (as I know). So why not require a commitment that enhances your degree through better perception of your school. And it's even fun!
2) Recruit more kids who are "joiners" not loners. My perception (and only that) is that the fine arts are growing in influence on the campus and steadily have been since the VUCA built in the mid-90s. Now we have a theatre President and several music people in leadership roles. That is a critical part of a great university. However, has the culture shifted too far in that direction? It's just a theory, but I think business majors tend to be most networked and interested in joint activity.
How do the basketball players interact with the other athletes? A couple of years some of the bball guys came across as a bit stuffy around the training room--the dynamic is interesting since the bball program is fully funded whereas most of the other sports are not. Other years, there would be approachable guys who came out to some of the football games even though we weren't very good. You kind of reap what you sow to some degree. If you want a good environment at the games, you have to be (a) approachable, (b) somewhat friendly and (c) winners.
I think the thing really needs to be organic. The instinct to push people to say Include sports in their programming turns attendance into an obligation or responsibility. It should first and foremost be enjoyable. There are ways you can woo them by either partnering in regards to events or half-time shows. But expecting them to force members isn't going to work unless athletes start going to Greek Life events as well.
Honestly, I feel like Athletics needs the PR BUT most of it has to be on their shoulders, and that includes Athletes. If we are having buses to away games, maybe, if we're only half filling them, give members of the teams free tickets that they can give away to friends. have members of the football team or cheer team or something out and about the Friday before Game Day signing people up fort he fan zone or just promoting the game. One on One interaction is what's gonna make the difference here.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves"
Has anyone heard any news on this front? Is the Athletics Dept going to come up with a new strategy to increase student turnout for the basketball games?
It would be a positive step to see the Athletics Department do something like this during freshman orientation. https://twitter.com/CoachJake_UNI/status/898213496999075840
In my opinion, if attendance is down or students have a lack of interest for the basketball team, then the players and coaches actually need to go to the dorms, frats, football team, etc. and create relationships outside of the team. If they act like they are not a part of the school community (because they are on full rides and are better than everyone) then the school community probably won't be tripping over themselves to get to the ARC for a basketball game. Pretty sure Matt Lottich understands this as he was at Stanford during the Mike Montgomery era--his teams were known for making a grassroots efforts to get students interested.
Here is the schedule with all events available for new students during "Welcome Week" (although it actually covers about two weeks): https://www.valpo.edu/admission/files/2018/07/Freshman-Welcome-Booklet-2018-Final.pdf (https://www.valpo.edu/admission/files/2018/07/Freshman-Welcome-Booklet-2018-Final.pdf)
Quote from: valpopal on July 18, 2018, 06:13:46 PM
Here is the schedule with all events available for new students during "Welcome Week" (although it actually covers about two weeks): https://www.valpo.edu/admission/files/2018/07/Freshman-Welcome-Booklet-2018-Final.pdf (https://www.valpo.edu/admission/files/2018/07/Freshman-Welcome-Booklet-2018-Final.pdf)
QuoteFriday, Aug. 31, 2018
5 p.m.
Fall Sports Kickoff Tailgate
Brown Field
Throw on your Valpo gear and tailgate at Brown Field before women's soccer takes on Bowling Green (game time 7:30 p.m.). There will be free food, inflatables, an obstacle course, and a pep rally to learn Valpo's chants and cheers! Sponsored by Valpo Athletics, Recreational Sports, Counseling Center, and UPC.
Hopefully they get a strong turnout for this and hopefully the coaches and team make an appearance at this event.
The plan is to have teams involved and it's being paired with organizations who are good at getting students to events, especially that early in the year. For about the first 2 weeks the new students will basically go wherever they are told. I believe there is also something in the works specifically for the football season and hopefully some coordination with the basketball teams.
Finally getting serious about athletics! This is good to see!
Some promotional partnership ideas I came up with in the " change the mascot?" thread when the conversation turned to pretzels and the ides of partnering with Ben's Pretzels:
Ben's Pretzels:
If the Crusaders' point total has an 8 in it win or lose: 2 for 1 pretzels
If the Crusaders score at least 80 points and win: free pretzels
If they score exactly 88 and win: 2 free pretzels
Or something along those lines
Valid for Home Games Only Redeemable only with ticket stub prior to the next Crusader home game This might boost attendance.
Culver's:
Or how about a promotion with Culver's that promises a free scoop of ice cream with every Crusader home win? Excludes Flavor of the Day\Concretes\Sundaes Redeemable only with ticket stub prior to the next Crusader home game. If both this and my Ben's idea are in play, maybe let the patrons choose the one they'd rather have or come up with a system (hole punch for one stamp for the other, or a mark with a marker)
McDonald's:
Another idea I have is if the Crusaders score a double number like 66 77 88, patrons can bring their ticket stubs to McDonald's for a free McDouble win or lose. Again valid with ticket stub prior to next home game.
If we want to expand our reach throughout the region, we should call out to see if restaurants in local towns\cities to see if they would like to participate. This would give us an excuse to advertise and market the team somehow in their store by putting up signage about the promotion, having the restaurants list themselves as a proud partner of the Valparaiso Crusaders, and would allow us to put out pocket schedules in these places for interested parties\to drum up interest in the program.
Albanese:
We could also potentially partner with Albanese if we want to try to expand our reach beyond Valparaiso\Porter County. Gummis are fairly cheap there, like $3-4\pound so maybe a partnership where fans could bring their ticket stubs to Albanese for a free pound of gummis after every Crusader win. Valid with ticket stub only prior to the next home game.
If they don't want to commit to a full pound promotion we could make it a half pound promotion for every time the Crusaders go into the locker room with a halftime lead. Bring in your ticket stub and correctly mention the halftime score for a free half pound of Albanese gummis. Valid with ticket stub only prior to the next home game.
Just some ideas bouncing around my brain that may boost attendance and interest in the program and allign with our stated interests of deepening our ties with the community and increasing our visibility throughout the region. I'm not sure how many of these have been tried or are even feasible. I'm just spitballing.
Students might be able to access these promotions with their ID cards or we can give them a sheet that certifies that they went to the game and can access these promotions.
How about making attendance of athletic events available for CORE 5th hour credit or giving students a punch card every month where attendance at athletic events leads to rewards like free food or bookstore discounts or partner with businesses in the community on this venture so that students on a budget can still patronize and support community businesses while supporting their fellow students. Rewards can escalate in value with the number of events they attend. Or you can do this on a point system. Each event a student attends is worth a certain amount of points (same value for every sport--extra points can be awarded throughout the game for students who dress up\make signs and cheer loudly. The points are then redeemed for prizes at least once per semester. Prizes can simply be bought with points or they can be given away in a raffle (attend more events win more points have better chance to win but everyone has a chance at the best prizes) or they can be auctioned off. Students may also have the option to save their points for later if they choose under the buying\redemption or auction format to go for bigger prizes later. Additionally a special set of prizes could be given out for those recognized for their spirit (cheering signmaking wearing Valpo gear). Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are but at least it's a suggestion for whatever that's worth.
Some great ideas, '1314. You should forward them to ml.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 30, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
How about making attendance of athletic events available for CORE 5th hour credit or giving students a punch card every month where attendance at athletic events leads to rewards like free food or bookstore discounts or partner with businesses in the community on this venture so that students on a budget can still patronize and support community businesses while supporting their fellow students. Rewards can escalate in value with the number of events they attend. Or you can do this on a point system. Each event a student attends is worth a certain amount of points (same value for every sport--extra points can be awarded throughout the game for students who dress up\make signs and cheer loudly. The points are then redeemed for prizes at least once per semester. Prizes can simply be bought with points or they can be given away in a raffle (attend more events win more points have better chance to win but everyone has a chance at the best prizes) or they can be auctioned off. Students may also have the option to save their points for later if they choose under the buying\redemption or auction format to go for bigger prizes later. Additionally a special set of prizes could be given out for those recognized for their spirit (cheering signmaking wearing Valpo gear). Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are but at least it's a suggestion for whatever that's worth.
This would be more palatable if it included other events (concerts, lectures, plays) which are also underattended. The argument would be to encourage students to be involved in the college community and experience outside of class.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 30, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
How about making attendance of athletic events available for CORE 5th hour credit or giving students a punch card every month where attendance at athletic events leads to rewards like free food or bookstore discounts or partner with businesses in the community on this venture so that students on a budget can still patronize and support community businesses while supporting their fellow students. Rewards can escalate in value with the number of events they attend. Or you can do this on a point system. Each event a student attends is worth a certain amount of points (same value for every sport--extra points can be awarded throughout the game for students who dress up\make signs and cheer loudly. The points are then redeemed for prizes at least once per semester. Prizes can simply be bought with points or they can be given away in a raffle (attend more events win more points have better chance to win but everyone has a chance at the best prizes) or they can be auctioned off. Students may also have the option to save their points for later if they choose under the buying\redemption or auction format to go for bigger prizes later. Additionally a special set of prizes could be given out for those recognized for their spirit (cheering signmaking wearing Valpo gear). Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are but at least it's a suggestion for whatever that's worth.
There was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
How about fresh energetic leadership at the top of the Student Services department? I think the VP has been in that job since the early 90s. Perhaps that is 20-25 years ago? Maybe I am wrong.
People tend to seek out similar people to fill the roles they supervise. So...bland process-oriented people have multiplied and change is fought.
Quote from: ml2 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:37 AM
There was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
I think the underlying problem is the lack of student leaders that organize and energize their peers to get others involved in the basketball culture at VU. At small schools like VU, finding those student leaders probably is cyclical, but there are things the athletics department could do to nurture and help a student organization that would be tasked with things like this. The creation of a student organization could prep one generation after the next to be student section leaders and try and have some sustainability.
I like the idea of making it 5th hour core approved, but maybe make it mandatory that student have to attend 1 non-educational 5th hour event (basketball games) and also at 1 more traditional educational 5th hour core event. I seem to remember that freshman were required to attend multiple 5th hour core approved events throughout the semester.
Quote from: ml2 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:37 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 30, 2018, 09:24:27 PMHow about making attendance of athletic events available for CORE 5th hour credit or giving students a punch card every month where attendance at athletic events leads to rewards like free food or bookstore discounts or partner with businesses in the community on this venture so that students on a budget can still patronize and support community businesses while supporting their fellow students. Rewards can escalate in value with the number of events they attend. Or you can do this on a point system. Each event a student attends is worth a certain amount of points (same value for every sport--extra points can be awarded throughout the game for students who dress up\make signs and cheer loudly. The points are then redeemed for prizes at least once per semester. Prizes can simply be bought with points or they can be given away in a raffle (attend more events win more points have better chance to win but everyone has a chance at the best prizes) or they can be auctioned off. Students may also have the option to save their points for later if they choose under the buying\redemption or auction format to go for bigger prizes later. Additionally a special set of prizes could be given out for those recognized for their spirit (cheering signmaking wearing Valpo gear). Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are but at least it's a suggestion for whatever that's worth.
There was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
That is a little before my time but I assume the program was successful? If so can it be reinstated and how would the university go about doing so? I agree with the poster that said lectures and performances should also be an option. Hopefully we would still get plenty of students into the ARC for events.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 31, 2018, 11:14:07 AMQuote from: ml2 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:37 AMThere was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
I think the underlying problem is the lack of student leaders that organize and energize their peers to get others involved in the basketball culture at VU. At small schools like VU, finding those student leaders probably is cyclical, but there are things the athletics department could do to nurture and help a student organization that would be tasked with things like this. The creation of a student organization could prep one generation after the next to be student section leaders and try and have some sustainability. I like the idea of making it 5th hour core approved, but maybe make it mandatory that student have to attend 1 non-educational 5th hour event (basketball games) and also at 1 more traditional educational 5th hour core event. I seem to remember that freshman were required to attend multiple 5th hour core approved events throughout the semester.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 31, 2018, 11:14:07 AMQuote from: ml2 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:37 AMThere was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
I think the underlying problem is the lack of student leaders that organize and energize their peers to get others involved in the basketball culture at VU. At small schools like VU, finding those student leaders probably is cyclical, but there are things the athletics department could do to nurture and help a student organization that would be tasked with things like this. The creation of a student organization could prep one generation after the next to be student section leaders and try and have some sustainability. I like the idea of making it 5th hour core approved, but maybe make it mandatory that student have to attend 1 non-educational 5th hour event (basketball games) and also at 1 more traditional educational 5th hour core event. I seem to remember that freshman were required to attend multiple 5th hour core approved events throughout the semester.
I think we had to do three while I was there. Maybe expand the number or make it more well-rounded: Your fifth hour events must include: 1 Athletic event (I don't think it's fair to restrict it to just basketball because other sports are also fun to watch and those athletes deserve support too. Nevertheless, I think most people will end up at basketball games because it's our flagship sport) 1 lecture and 1 artistic event (artist talk, gallery viewing, play, or music performance). I would even advocate increasing it to 6 or 9 or 12 events at the same ratio. One campus event per week doesn't seem like a terribly unreasonable ask. After all, students get in free. I like your idea of a student organization to create sustainability but the key is going to be marketing. The coaches and players throughout the department need to build a presence among the students and get the word out. Having the team hand out free gear or food vouchers or something (if it is okay to do so) could also help. While you have the students attention, tell them about the upcoming schedule.
Quote from: ml2 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:37 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 30, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
How about making attendance of athletic events available for CORE 5th hour credit or giving students a punch card every month where attendance at athletic events leads to rewards like free food or bookstore discounts or partner with businesses in the community on this venture so that students on a budget can still patronize and support community businesses while supporting their fellow students. Rewards can escalate in value with the number of events they attend. Or you can do this on a point system. Each event a student attends is worth a certain amount of points (same value for every sport--extra points can be awarded throughout the game for students who dress up\make signs and cheer loudly. The points are then redeemed for prizes at least once per semester. Prizes can simply be bought with points or they can be given away in a raffle (attend more events win more points have better chance to win but everyone has a chance at the best prizes) or they can be auctioned off. Students may also have the option to save their points for later if they choose under the buying\redemption or auction format to go for bigger prizes later. Additionally a special set of prizes could be given out for those recognized for their spirit (cheering signmaking wearing Valpo gear). Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are but at least it's a suggestion for whatever that's worth.
There was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
The success of these efforts seem to come and go according to who the student leaders are and little more. Kind of like an upstart mega church that stays on top only as long as its charismatic founder survives. I'm all for student leadership, but where is the athletic department ownership of these student-led initiatives? Whose responsibility is it to work with work with these students? To coordinate and facilitate their efforts? Lobby for necessary funding? Develop a student leadership succession plan to sustain success year over year? If that "someone" exists, let me suggest it's time to find a new "someone." If that person doesn't exist, why not? It would be like leaving the student cheerleaders in charge of themselves every year. What a fiasco that would be. Even assuming students are always well intended, they're still kids - kids with very little life experience, a million conflicting priorities and short shelf lives to boot. They need adult leadership, guidance and support. If the answer is "there is no one" or "that was assigned to someone and they do the best they can with the time they have," we now know where the problem resides.
Quote from: wh on July 31, 2018, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: ml2 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:37 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 30, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
How about making attendance of athletic events available for CORE 5th hour credit or giving students a punch card every month where attendance at athletic events leads to rewards like free food or bookstore discounts or partner with businesses in the community on this venture so that students on a budget can still patronize and support community businesses while supporting their fellow students. Rewards can escalate in value with the number of events they attend. Or you can do this on a point system. Each event a student attends is worth a certain amount of points (same value for every sport--extra points can be awarded throughout the game for students who dress up\make signs and cheer loudly. The points are then redeemed for prizes at least once per semester. Prizes can simply be bought with points or they can be given away in a raffle (attend more events win more points have better chance to win but everyone has a chance at the best prizes) or they can be auctioned off. Students may also have the option to save their points for later if they choose under the buying\redemption or auction format to go for bigger prizes later. Additionally a special set of prizes could be given out for those recognized for their spirit (cheering signmaking wearing Valpo gear). Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are but at least it's a suggestion for whatever that's worth.
There was a program just like this in place and operating in the 2007-2009 range. Several of the student leaders from that program are still occasional posters on this board.
The success of these efforts seem to come and go according to who the student leaders are and little more. Kind of like an upstart mega church that stays on top only as long as its charismatic founder survives. I'm all for student leadership, but where is the athletic department ownership of these student-led initiatives? Whose responsibility is it to work with work with these students? To coordinate and facilitate their efforts? Lobby for necessary funding? Develop a student leadership succession plan to sustain success year over year? If that "someone" exists, let me suggest it's time to find a new "someone." If that person doesn't exist, why not? It would be like leaving the student cheerleaders in charge of themselves every year. What a fiasco that would be. Even assuming students are always well intended, they're still kids - kids with very little life experience, a million conflicting priorities and short shelf lives to boot. They need adult leadership, guidance and support. If the answer is "there is no one" or "that was assigned to someone and they do the best they can with the time they have," we now know where the problem resides.
Maybe creating a position for someone whose sole job is to be a link between the students and the department\administration would really help. Great suggestion!
When you are the self proclaimed "student section leader" this isn't the best look. If you are trying drum up attendance and enthusiasm to attend the basketball games it's probably not wise to insult the football team. When I was a student at VU the football team was dreadful and had some character issues, but from all accounts and results on the field Coach Cecchini has really turned around the program culture. The student section is rocking when the football team shows up (which unfortunately has been less and less the last few years from what I can tell).
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1025481822036271106
Yeah, given the absolute yeoman's work Coach Cecchini has done and is doing to change the culture and the fortunes of the football team, this shot seems ill-timed and out of place. As a growing twitter presence with a recurring show on campus radio, they are a very public and prominent voice both within and outside the university community. I don't know why they use that platform to constantly take shots at other accounts and stir the pot--especially when they don't have much of an argument. It's a really bad look. I know they're young, but somebody needs to talk to them about professional conduct as members of the media. They have much to learn. If you're going to be a divisive presence, then don't be shocked or complain when the student body doesn't unite behind you.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 04, 2018, 12:48:46 PMThey have much to learn. If you're going to be a divisive presence, then don't be shocked or complain when the student body voters doesn't don't unite behind you.
Hmmmm. In what other area does this sentence ring very true?
There are plenty of places for political discussion on this site and in life in general Can we please keep that stuff off the sports portions of this forum?
I've had it with this guy. Garbage "Hot Take" so called journalism. Trying to be the next Skip Bayless. Hope he ends up with a linebacker for a roommate.
Is this "Rock the ARC" some sort of event to get students involved??
All Valpo students! Head on down to Rock the Arc! Our coaches and players will be there if you're looking for some good competition!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlAM50IW4AEjLwN.jpg
It's a late night event to get students down to the ARC and having fun. They have basketball tournaments, yoga classes, open swim and other stuff. Teams are often there engaging with the students as well. They had the basketball team there playing bags. The basketball team also came to some other sessions and led the students in chants, some games and encouraged them to come out in November
If you follow Valparaiso University on SnapChat that post some videos of the event. It looked fairly successful. Lot's of freshman looked to be hooping on the court. The videos are still on the University's story.
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/1031338522811219969
[tweet]1031632928877551621[/tweet]
Quote from: crusader05 on August 20, 2018, 02:37:36 PM
It's a late night event to get students down to the ARC and having fun. They have basketball tournaments, yoga classes, open swim and other stuff. Teams are often there engaging with the students as well. They had the basketball team there playing bags. The basketball team also came to some other sessions and led the students in chants, some games and encouraged them to come out in November
This sounds like a great idea! Fun, personal, everyone welcome. A big part of building enthusiasm is making personal connections and you need events that create opportunities for those connections. Kudos to the people who thought of this and made it happen!
If you haven't I really encourage you to look over teh welcome week events page. https://www.valpo.edu/admission/files/2018/07/Freshman-Welcome-Booklet-2018-Final.pdf
It used to be that there was not a lot going on during move-in but over the last 8 years or so the University really has created a pretty awesome few weeks of events that even upperclassmen look forward too every year. It's constantly evolving with Athletics getting way more involved this year and that, combined with the efficiency of freshman move-in has been a great way for many students to get their footing on campus.
Quote from: crusader05 on August 20, 2018, 03:34:41 PM
If you haven't I really encourage you to look over teh welcome week events page. https://www.valpo.edu/admission/files/2018/07/Freshman-Welcome-Booklet-2018-Final.pdf
It used to be that there was not a lot going on during move-in but over the last 8 years or so the University really has created a pretty awesome few weeks of events that even upperclassmen look forward too every year. It's constantly evolving with Athletics getting way more involved this year and that, combined with the efficiency of freshman move-in has been a great way for many students to get their footing on campus.
Hmmm. When did President Heckler take office? ;)
Quote from: valpopal on August 20, 2018, 03:14:01 PM
[tweet]1031632928877551621[/tweet]
Love seeing this! Next year we need to get the Pep Band, Crusaderettes and Cheerleaders involved in this to take it to the next level.
That's right. Make it a big-time event like many colleges do. Still progress is progress and should be celebrated.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 20, 2018, 06:47:44 PM
That's right. Make it a big-time event like many colleges do. Still progress is progress and should be celebrated.
Agreed. It should really become a big must go to event. This was held in the big lecture hall in the Neils Science Center. How many seats does that room hold? Maybe 200-250? ??? So maybe it could hold at most 1/3 of the freshman class. I had a psychology class in there.
Anyone know how many students showed up? We only can see that the first 7 rows were filled.
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/nwitimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/4f/04f10eab-0252-5088-8d2d-a7a7b5faa3a6/589288e6ea9b0.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800)
[tweet]1031639023046086661[/tweet]
There were 3 separate sessions and he came for all 3 and the entire freshman and transfer class were required to come so probably close to 800+ students saw it give or take some people who ditched out. The session was about safety and fun socializing at Valpo so the basketball team was invited to encourage school spirit and game attendance.
It wasn't just Matt!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmuABI0HDpE/
The school year is getting off to an exciting and eventful start. Quite the promotion around the men's and women's doubleheader soccer matches on Friday.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/msoccer/news/2018-19/18347/futbol-at-brown-field-set-for-friday/
[tweet]1032003721251704832[/tweet]
Matt and Mark at the Opening Convocation. Clearly there is an enhanced effort by the Athletic Department to be part of the Student Community.
https://www.facebook.com/valparaiso.university/photos/ms.c.eJxlzMENACAIBMGODHAKR~;~_NGX~;m~_G4m6~_Ynd5EdJ5mI5V~_pUQgpvbXkMGWz6LkhBkYx8Bimn7mOHSgx.bps.a.10156472917948632/10156478892933632/?type=3&theater
VU Football was a visible presence across campus on Move-in Day as well. They've done this annually but this year it seems to jell better with other athletic department efforts (some addressed in posts below) to "recruit" new students as fans.
[tweet]1030814341505933313[/tweet]
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What will the student section do without it's faithful leader? :crazy: I agree it's a crap opponent but there is no way I'd miss MY team's home opener if I were a student. Disappointing to hear this.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1032321756122566656
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 01:17:48 PMWhat will the student section do without it's faithful leader? :crazy: I agree it's a crap opponent but there is no way I'd miss MY team's home opener if I were a student. Disappointing to hear this. https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1032321756122566656
This guy is a self absorbed want to be sports analyst. Trying to make a career as a big shot nationally. Give him credit as a sports fan, he definitely is, but a Valpo fan I think not. His Valpo fandom seems to be of convenience that he goes to school here. Which is perfectly alright but don't try to come off as a staunch Crusader fan to the true bleed 'em brown and gold.
Cant disagree. Even with free tickets, the only out of conference game I'm even thinking about going to is ball state and with that being Christmas time is tbd. Brutal home schedule.
Ball State and MAYBE High Point but ONLY because of their coach. We need to do better than this going forward. We're in a good mid major conference now. Leverage that. USE that. Please. Ever since the MVC move I have been begging for the Athletic Department to give me a reason to become a season ticket holder. I WANT them to take my money but I can't do that when the home slate prior to conference play is complete crap. I KNOW I can't be the only alum/fan/local resident that feels this way. Please find a way to do better.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 01:17:48 PM
What will the student section do without it's faithful leader? :crazy: I agree it's a crap opponent but there is no way I'd miss MY team's home opener if I were a student. Disappointing to hear this.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1032321756122566656
He's a typical self indulgent twit (aka teenager). But understand where you are coming from, we are just cut from different cloth than the young man OR he too will find the way . . . as we did.
Clearly the Athletic Administration is trying new methods for student involvement. Now it is "Crusader Tailgate". Sounds like a great effort and sure hope it works!
https://www.facebook.com/valpoathletics/videos/vb.113914928664233/260159481277639/?type=2&theater
The Fall Sports Tailgate is TODAY! Kick off the fall @ValpoAthletics season at 5 p.m. at Brown Field with free food, inflatables, a pep rally, and more!
Plus, cheer @ValpoWSO to a victory against Bowling Green! 📣🙌 #GoValpo
Quote from: vu72 on August 31, 2018, 10:59:25 AM
The Fall Sports Tailgate is TODAY! Kick off the fall @ValpoAthletics season at 5 p.m. at Brown Field with free food, inflatables, a pep rally, and more!
Plus, cheer @ValpoWSO to a victory against Bowling Green! 📣🙌 #GoValpo
Hopefully they get a strong turn out! It looks like they'll have awesome weather tonight.
Was yesterday a rain out?
https://twitter.com/ValpoU/status/1035545883419598850
I'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 08:41:26 AM
Quote from: vu72 on September 05, 2018, 08:37:14 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Yes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial to study what they did in turning theirs around.
Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on. It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.
Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full. But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year? Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.
I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep...
Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 09:30:48 AM
I'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 08:41:26 AM
Quote from: vu72 on September 05, 2018, 08:37:14 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Yes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial to study what they did in turning theirs around.
Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on. It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.
Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full. But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year? Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.
I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep...
Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!
So by that logic that means that the only "current" students that remember the true quality of the student section would have to be Juniors / Seniors by now. So it's safe to say that some of the leaders from the student section graduated in the 2015/16 season and some were not replaced. This means the coaching staff has to engage all levels of students from student body leaders to casual fans. Uphill battle but at least some of the upperclassmen know what it should look like.
Either way, all I am asking for is 3/4 full and some perks provided to Pep Band members for volunteering their time. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 09:30:48 AMI'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here. Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 08:41:26 AMQuote from: vu72 on September 05, 2018, 08:37:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on September 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AMYes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial to study what they did in turning theirs around.
Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on. It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.
Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full. But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year? Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.
I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep... Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!
Some of me wants to blame falling attendance on the ease of seeing every game broadcast free on ESPN3. It's very convenient to stay home, do a little work be with friends and still see the game. Reminds me back in the 70's/80's when the Blackhawks owner wouldn't allow home games to be on TV because he wanted to have the fans in the stadium.
I wonder if having to pay for ESPN3+ will bring a few of them back inside the ARC? Would love to see some more involvement and butts in the stands.
Quote from: VUBBFan on September 05, 2018, 10:20:33 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 09:30:48 AMI'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here. Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 08:41:26 AMQuote from: vu72 on September 05, 2018, 08:37:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on September 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AMYes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial to study what they did in turning theirs around.
Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on. It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.
Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full. But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year? Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.
I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep... Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!
Some of me wants to blame falling attendance on the ease of seeing every game broadcast free on ESPN3. It's very convenient to stay home, do a little work be with friends and still see the game. Reminds me back in the 70's/80's when the Blackhawks owner wouldn't allow home games to be on TV because he wanted to have the fans in the stadium.
I wonder if having to pay for ESPN3+ will bring a few of them back inside the ARC? Would love to see some more involvement and butts in the stands.
Great point. Maybe it will draw more students to the ARC. It might even draw a few more locals. ESPN3 definitely was a game changer that had a big impact on attendance across CBB the last 6-8 years or so.
I'm wondering how much of it is the ability to watch games from the dorms/library and how much is not being indoctrinated into the Valpo Basketball culture? It might be a case of the University admissions attracting a different type of student who isn't into sports as much as past generations. To be honest I don't know what the deal is. It's just concerning.
If you're a University administrator or if you work in the donations office they better be concerned because many alums have kept there connection to the University via the Men's Basketball program through the years. The stronger an alum's bond to the University, the more generous those alums tend to be when it comes to willingness to donate in the future. I know for a fact that many of my friends feel that connection via the MBB team. When they do well it makes alums feel proud. The University and Athletics Dept better not squander the opportunity to build and nurture the generation.
VU2014,
I think you are my brother by another mother! Keep after it. I agree with every single point about our student section and you make it well.
If the current crop of students isn't into hoops, maybe they are into resumes and job searches. Their 40-something bosses may like basketball. If they see a lame atmosphere on the ARC as they channel surf a couple of times it makes a statement about the university's culture and student socialization.
Is the smartphone "in my own world" generation coming into bloom? The self-absorbed crowd? It brings to mind a YouTube I saw a camera catch a big group of sorority girls who were "watching" an MLB game (or at least sitting in a stadium). They were all staring at phones and taking selfies of themselves and each other. The announcers laughed at how they never even glanced toward the game. How funny is it ultimately if people are either too vane, immature, or socially isolated to communicate well and enjoy each other's company?
Dont blame smartphones, there are kids in every school looking for social interaction without their phones. If you get the right student leaders and a good product, students will attend. I have been to games all over the country in schools big and small. Good product and good leaders = great atmosphere.
Non-con schedule excluded there's nothing wrong with the product... Hmmm...
Unfortunately, attendance woes is a problem that is widespread. Which means that the difficulties in reversing the trend at the ARC are not simply issues under University control that it can fix. Seems that the problem is generational. That is not meant to be critical of the younger generation, it is simply that tastes change over time. My generation did not do things that college-aged kids of previous generations liked to do, and current students don't like to do what my generation liked to do, which was to go to games. The two links below discuss attendance issues at other schools, including student attendance, which is down. It's a universal problem.
2014 makes an excellent point, that I had not thought of before - down student attendance now translates to fewer donations later. If it were not for that point, I would simply suggest that the University forget about trying to get someone to come to a game that they clearly don't want to come to, and move on to solving other problems that can actually be solved. Use the space in the student section for something else.
If the University wants to increase student attendance, then they have to look at the solution as convincing a generation of people to do what they wouldn't ordinarily want to do, i.e., change behavioral patterns. Universities are reluctant to do that. Rather, they tend to like to react to student trends, and go with the flow of that trend.
I don't have any suggestions, but I will say that offering free stuff at the games, and having better opponents and a better team on the floor will not move the needle. To increase student attendance, the University is trying to lift a single boat in a lowering tide, and traditional attractions won't work.
https://www.athleticbusiness.com/college/men-s-college-basketball-programs-facing-attendance-declines.html#!
https://www.seccountry.com/kentucky/kentucky-basketball-rupp-arena-attendance-numbers-down-john-calipari-reacts
Team performance and (perceived opponent quality are huge factors at games. The fact that Butler Purdue Missouri State the year they won the MVC New Mexico Murray State Rhode Island SLU Florida State and St Mary's represent our largest recent home gates recently is no accident.
Quote from: valpowbb1 on September 06, 2018, 05:44:59 AM
Dont blame smartphones, there are kids in every school looking for social interaction without their phones. If you get the right student leaders and a good product, students will attend. I have been to games all over the country in schools big and small. Good product and good leaders = great atmosphere.
I'd like to see the athletics department sponsor a student organization that is tasked with building/teaching the next generation of student section leaders. Fraternities, sororities and other organizations do this well. Why couldn't a student section organization do the same but also have the financial support of the student senate and athletics dept.
We need some students to step up. The current group of guys just aren't motivated and don't want to put in the work of organizing anything. If I were the athletics depart I'd reach out to some outgoing student-athletes that are in their offseason and approach them with the proposition.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 06, 2018, 01:30:19 PM
We need some students to step up. The current group of guys just aren't motivated and don't want to put in the work of organizing anything. If I were the athletics depart I'd reach out to some outgoing student-athletes that are in their offseason and approach them with the proposition.
Well, you see, it takes a lot of work to manage a burgeoning national media brand. After all, GCU might be playing in Chicago and no self-respecting Valpo fan in their right mind would ever want to miss covering that.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2018, 01:39:58 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 06, 2018, 01:30:19 PM
We need some students to step up. The current group of guys just aren't motivated and don't want to put in the work of organizing anything. If I were the athletics depart I'd reach out to some outgoing student-athletes that are in their offseason and approach them with the proposition.
Well, you see, it takes a lot of work to manage a burgeoning national media brand. After all, GCU might be playing in Chicago and no self-respecting Valpo fan in their right mind would ever want to miss covering that.
Multiple people have reached out to them over social media asking them to join the forum and engage in productive discussions on how to improve the student section. I think a lot of us have some solid ideas. We want them to succeed.
So far they have been unwilling to engage in conversation. Hopefully that changes this year.
We all want them to succeed. I truly do despite how tough I've been on them, the question is--and given their unwillingness to engage with those who have reached out to them and offered help, I fear we may already have our answer--do they want to succeed in anything besides building their own twitter and podcast presence?
Sorry, I'm not technically savvy, and don't know how to copy in quotes from other posters, but 1314 posted this in response to my comment that the University has to do more than improve the team and opponent scheduling:
Team performance and (perceived opponent quality are huge factors at games. The fact that Butler Purdue Missouri State the year they won the MVC New Mexico Murray State Rhode Island SLU Florida State and St Mary's represent our largest recent home gates recently is no accident.
1314's point is that team quality and opponent quality both matter. I wish that were the case, but the numbers suggest otherwise.
In 15-16, VU went 30-7, had 3 NIT games (one was an all-time attendance record), and a top 25 opponent (RI), and averaged 3573 per home game. Not bad.
In 03-04, VU was in the Summit/Mid-Con (not nearly the quality of opponent of today) and went 18-13. I.e., 12 fewer victories and 6 more losses. The average home attendance was 3944. For the UMKC game on Valentine's Day (not a big night for guys wanting to attend sporting events, nor a Div. I powerhouse), the home crowd was 4214.
In 04-05, VU was in the Summit/Mid-Con and went 15-16, and averaged home attendance of 4174.
So, in two seasons with far less quality on the floor, and far less quality in opponent, VU drew an average of more than 500 more per home game. Yes, it is true that a good team may draw a decent crowd for the occasional opponent, but on average attendance will be down. When I went to those games in those years, I don't ever remember seeing a completely vacant student section when school was in session. That is common now.
Attendance is down. Student attendance is abysmal, and to think that today's student will come to a game simply because it will likely be a good game simply ignores the statistical facts. I wish that were not the case, but it is. It is generational, and it is not the fault of the guys at Happening Hoops.
My only point is that free T-shirts and other trinkets won't change that. Better teams and better opponents will only slow the bleeding, but that's all. I wish that I had an answer.
We can both be right here, and we are. Yes it's generational but the best way to counteract that is to give the fans home games that are worth attending. There are simply too many entertainment options and ways to access the games these days that weren't available back then. This youth culture likes to be seen. Games need to be an event. Or on TV which many MVC games are, thankfully. The quality of opponent is a big part of that. You can't trot out two non-D1s 2 low major also-rans and 2 decent games and then throw up your hands and say "oh well what can you do ? kids just don't like basketball I guess." Rhode Island brought in almost 5000 on a Tuesday. Belmont brought in almost 3400 on a Thursday. If that were a Saturday game we'd have probably had 4000+. The NIT games were on a Thursday and a Tuesday and drew 4991 and 5444 respectively. And these examples come from the two years right before our home nonconference scheduling took a massive nose dive. Don't tell me quality of opponent doesn't matter.
Of course the UMKC game drew well back then. That was an important battle for positioning in the conference in a year where we were contending. Those games always draw well. Imagine this scenario: It's February 20,2019. A Wednesday. Valpo is having a great year and sits in third with a chance to still win the title with a few breaks. They're playing SIU who is in 2nd place. If Valpo wins, the teams flip-flop in the standings. How full do you suppose the ARC is? My guess, 3800 or more and that's in the age of the smart phone. For a midweek game not the Saturday game in your example. Team performance matters. With Valpo at 2-5 in MVC play the Loyola game on a Sunday drew 4040 Illinois State two Sundays later drew 3330 Valpo was 3-10 Bradley on Saturday drew over 3000 with Valpo at 4-11. Imagine if those games had more weight for Valpo in the conference race.
Valpo needs to win and\or the opponents need to be good to maximize home attendance. The winning has to come against good opponents. Step 1. Play a quality opponent Step 2. Beat the quality opponents consistently. As I have said before, with so much more to compete against than in the past the product must be improved, and the quality of the opponent is a big part of that but performance must rise to meet that product for the reason to attend to reach optimal strength for those who aren't diehard sports fans or who haven't been indoctrinated into Valpo's basketball culture. As long as Valpo doesn't stub their toe with any bad losses early and scores a few solid road\neutral wins, I expect the MVC opener against Illinois State and the third game against Bradley to beat their respective numbers from last year despite being midweek games. I believe that the students and town are ready to support this team and the MVC move they just need the right motivation\incentive\reason. A contending team will provide that and the elevated conference slate will take care of the rest.
1314, we may both be right, but I truly hope that things happen that strongly show that your are right, and that I'm dreadfully wrong.
Quote from: 4throwfan on September 06, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
1314, we may both be right, but I truly hope that things happen that strongly show that your are right, and that I'm dreadfully wrong.
National attendance wouldn't be down if it weren't a generational thing. Sadly I'm leaning towards 4throwfan on this concept and it's only because that means the slow decay of college athletics as we knew it.
I'd emphasize that much of what VU1314 says is valid regarding approaches that slow the bleeding. All these things need to take place to engage the region and to a degree the students.
It would be great to hear from a Residence Assistant as to if the dorms are packed on a game night. And if so, what's an average student doing in lieu of going to a b-ball game?
As a track athlete we'd often times finish practice around 5:30'ish, go to the student union for training table (food) and walk back over to the weekday volleyball and basketball games since we had been training at the ARC that afternoon already.
I think the Crusader could handle a T-Shirt cannon. Wouldn't mind seeing the Athletics Dept add that to the Gameday experience during timeouts. It could entertain the crowd.
https://twitter.com/SomeonesAnIdiot/status/1042458694091460608
Quote from: VU2014 on September 19, 2018, 08:39:52 PM
I think the Crusader could handle a T-Shirt cannon. Wouldn't mind seeing the Athletics Dept add that to the Gameday experience during timeouts. It could entertain the crowd.
That would be a serious blast to the attendance that could move the needle towards a ball busting record of ghastly proportions.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 19, 2018, 08:39:52 PMI think the Crusader could handle a T-Shirt cannon. Wouldn't mind seeing the Athletics Dept add that to the Gameday experience during timeouts. It could entertain the crowd.
Did they stop using the t-shirt cannon? I remember it being used commonly to send Centier or Family Express Shirts into the banners while aiming for the upper bleachers.
Quote from: bbtds on September 20, 2018, 02:09:41 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 19, 2018, 08:39:52 PM
I think the Crusader could handle a T-Shirt cannon. Wouldn't mind seeing the Athletics Dept add that to the Gameday experience during timeouts. It could entertain the crowd.
That would be a serious blast to the attendance that could move the needle towards a ball busting record of ghastly proportions.
If the resources aren't currently there to achieve the big projects (AC, parking, giving the ARC a MUCH needed facelift, etc.) then doing the little things to improve the gameday experience could add up. Ultimately winning and getting quality opponents to the ARC are the most important keys to attendance.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 20, 2018, 08:38:36 AM
If the resources aren't currently there to achieve the big projects (AC, parking, giving the ARC a MUCH needed facelift, etc.) then doing the little things to improve the gameday experience could add up. Ultimately winning and getting quality opponents to the ARC are the most important keys to attendance.
Background -- living in NY and then Massachusetts from 1967 to 2013 and just south of Green Bay since then, I don't get to the ARC for MBB games, but I managed to get to all the UWM and UWGB games that I could since 2013. That all ended with the change to the MVC, of course.
Now my comment -- At both UWM (Panther Arena) and UWGB (Resch Center) it seemed like every break in the action involved some sort of activity like T-shirt cannons, ticket-related drawings for prizes, games of "skill," or other such stuff. During half-time there was either organized entertainment or more eleborate contest for fans to both participate in or just watch or both. The key to me was that any type of participatory activity always seemed to draw its participants from the student section (it might have been 100% of the time, but pretty close) and prizes were pretty attractive as i recall.
My question -- You pretty much don't see much on TV during the breaks. Does Valpo do what I described above in the ARC? If so, what is the response? If not, why not? As 2014 noted, lots of little things can add up to a better overall game experience which may entice return visits.
This kid really doesn't understand what it means to be a student body leader... :crazy: Hopefully some other students step up and push these guys to the side. He'd rather mock the football team than embrace them and bring them into the fold. This is a bad look...
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1043609292165861377
This got me thinking what Valpo could (should?) do with our Pep Band. Why don't we strategically put our band close to opposing teams bench to make it as loud, annoying, and chaotic for the opposing teams bench? The goal should be to make the opposing team as uncomfortable as possible.
Remember when the band use to go on the court at halftime and play music right next to the opposing team during timeouts? Why don't we do that again? It was always entertaining for the fans and it got the student section a little bit more rowdy (which we need more of these days). I think I remember someone mentioning that the Horizon League HQ putting the kibosh on it but we're not in that conference anymore so who cares. I'd like to see that come back. If anyone from Athletics Dept is listening, any chance we can bring that back? Please. I see other schools doing it. Why not us?
https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1043579127503224834
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 20, 2018, 09:45:05 AMQuote from: VU2014 on September 20, 2018, 08:38:36 AMIf the resources aren't currently there to achieve the big projects (AC, parking, giving the ARC a MUCH needed facelift, etc.) then doing the little things to improve the gameday experience could add up. Ultimately winning and getting quality opponents to the ARC are the most important keys to attendance.
Background -- living in NY and then Massachusetts from 1967 to 2013 and just south of Green Bay since then, I don't get to the ARC for MBB games, but I managed to get to all the UWM and UWGB games that I could since 2013. That all ended with the change to the MVC, of course. Now my comment -- At both UWM (Panther Arena) and UWGB (Resch Center) it seemed like every break in the action involved some sort of activity like T-shirt cannons, ticket-related drawings for prizes, games of "skill," or other such stuff. During half-time there was either organized entertainment or more eleborate contest for fans to both participate in or just watch or both. The key to me was that any type of participatory activity always seemed to draw its participants from the student section (it might have been 100% of the time, but pretty close) and prizes were pretty attractive as i recall. My question -- You pretty much don't see much on TV during the breaks. Does Valpo do what I described above in the ARC? If so, what is the response? If not, why not? As 2014 noted, lots of little things can add up to a better overall game experience which may entice return visits.
They used to I think even up to the early HL days but certainly throughout the mid con days but they've stopped in recent years. I think the goal was to sell the game as a standalone event.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 22, 2018, 04:24:23 PMThis kid really doesn't understand what it means to be a student body leader... :crazy: Hopefully some other students step up and push these guys to the side. He'd rather mock the football team than embrace them and bring them into the fold. This is a bad look... https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1043609292165861377
Taking shots at the athletic programs of the school that provides space for you to do a radio show probably isn't the smartest idea in the world for your career prospects and you CERTAINLY won't win students over to support the sports you support by insulting them and calling for the outright elimination of entire programs. How about instead of sitting in your dorm watching and tweeting you go to Brown Field and show some freaking leadership and support them by cheering them on? You'll probably get more people at basketball games that way. No wonder student attendance is down the student leadership stinks. It's one thing to make a joke about the football program or to express your opinion that it should be cut privately with your friends but doing so publicly especially in the capacity of a student leader is so utterly and unfathomably stupid I don't know where to begin. I think I know why they love GCU so much: they already have good student leadership so there's no need for these guys to put in the work they're so unwilling to put in to create the raucous environment they want AND they don't have football which these guys seem to hate.
He's getting soundly and rightly called out for this in the comments. Good. I hope he learns from this (but he probably won't).
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1043609292165861377
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 05:47:30 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 20, 2018, 09:45:05 AMQuote from: VU2014 on September 20, 2018, 08:38:36 AMIf the resources aren't currently there to achieve the big projects (AC, parking, giving the ARC a MUCH needed facelift, etc.) then doing the little things to improve the gameday experience could add up. Ultimately winning and getting quality opponents to the ARC are the most important keys to attendance.
Background -- living in NY and then Massachusetts from 1967 to 2013 and just south of Green Bay since then, I don't get to the ARC for MBB games, but I managed to get to all the UWM and UWGB games that I could since 2013. That all ended with the change to the MVC, of course. Now my comment -- At both UWM (Panther Arena) and UWGB (Resch Center) it seemed like every break in the action involved some sort of activity like T-shirt cannons, ticket-related drawings for prizes, games of "skill," or other such stuff. During half-time there was either organized entertainment or more eleborate contest for fans to both participate in or just watch or both. The key to me was that any type of participatory activity always seemed to draw its participants from the student section (it might have been 100% of the time, but pretty close) and prizes were pretty attractive as i recall. My question -- You pretty much don't see much on TV during the breaks. Does Valpo do what I described above in the ARC? If so, what is the response? If not, why not? As 2014 noted, lots of little things can add up to a better overall game experience which may entice return visits.
They used to I think even up to the early HL days but certainly throughout the mid con days but they've stopped in recent years. I think the goal was to sell the game as a standalone event.
For me personally I could care less about the halftime entertainment and things like that. Ultimately the budget should go towards hiring the best coaches possible, gear/equipment for the team and recruiting budget. Winning by far means the most to me and getting quality opponents to the ARC. But I know the little things matter to others. We should be doing whatever we can (within financial responsibility) to get casuals to be repeat customers and ultimately become reliable fans.
I think having a fun atmosphere goes a long way into improving the fan experience. Investing in improving the pep band is an example. It wouldn't even require a huge investment to improve the band. They could make the pep band a 1/4 or 1/2 credit. Have the music dept supply them with the equipment/guidance they need. A quality band goes a long way at College athletics events.
Apparently he's not the leader anymore and hasn't been for some time. Wonder what the reasons are for this decision. Regardless, hopefully someone more engaged who is less divisive and more of a unifying force will step forward and take on leadership duties. This seems like the best move for both sides: He gets to focus on his radio show working on his media skills and being a fan while the student section gets a new and hopefully better leader. I wish both sides well. Good luck to Happening Hoops and to the Valparaizone and as always Go Valpo!
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1043656326755377153
I'm not sure that we should lay too much at the feet of the person from Happening Hoops. It seems to me that the two main reasons for student lack of attendance are 1) the students just aren't interested, and 2) schedule conflicts with Greek activities. (Just note, as for No. 2, I'm completely uninformed on this. I simply got this from other postings on this board.) It seems that if the Greek leaders/society wanted students at the games, then they could conform their activities to coincide with the basketball games. Since they don't, it seems like they, like the other students, just aren't interested. So, we're back at No. 1.
I'm asking this because I simply don't know, so don't read too much into it. But, the HH guy says that he's no longer a student section leader. What does that mean? Are there section leaders that are supposed to do something? How do they get that position?
It seems that the leadership should really develop from the Greek crowd. Is that right? If so, that ain't happening, because they're not interested.
If anyone knows how all of that works, I'd like to hear. Like I said, I truly don't know. The only thing that I know about student life is what I learn from this board, and from going to basketball games.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 22, 2018, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 05:47:30 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 20, 2018, 09:45:05 AMQuote from: VU2014 on September 20, 2018, 08:38:36 AMIf the resources aren't currently there to achieve the big projects (AC, parking, giving the ARC a MUCH needed facelift, etc.) then doing the little things to improve the gameday experience could add up. Ultimately winning and getting quality opponents to the ARC are the most important keys to attendance.
Background -- living in NY and then Massachusetts from 1967 to 2013 and just south of Green Bay since then, I don't get to the ARC for MBB games, but I managed to get to all the UWM and UWGB games that I could since 2013. That all ended with the change to the MVC, of course. Now my comment -- At both UWM (Panther Arena) and UWGB (Resch Center) it seemed like every break in the action involved some sort of activity like T-shirt cannons, ticket-related drawings for prizes, games of "skill," or other such stuff. During half-time there was either organized entertainment or more eleborate contest for fans to both participate in or just watch or both. The key to me was that any type of participatory activity always seemed to draw its participants from the student section (it might have been 100% of the time, but pretty close) and prizes were pretty attractive as i recall. My question -- You pretty much don't see much on TV during the breaks. Does Valpo do what I described above in the ARC? If so, what is the response? If not, why not? As 2014 noted, lots of little things can add up to a better overall game experience which may entice return visits.
They used to I think even up to the early HL days but certainly throughout the mid con days but they've stopped in recent years. I think the goal was to sell the game as a standalone event.
For me personally I could care less about the halftime entertainment and things like that. Ultimately the budget should go towards hiring the best coaches possible, gear/equipment for the team and recruiting budget. Winning by far means the most to me and getting quality opponents to the ARC. But I know the little things matter to others. We should be doing whatever we can (within financial responsibility) to get casuals to be repeat customers and ultimately become reliable fans.
I think having a fun atmosphere goes a long way into improving the fan experience. Investing in improving the pep band is an example. It wouldn't even require a huge investment to improve the band. They could make the pep band a 1/4 or 1/2 credit. Have the music dept supply them with the equipment/guidance they need. A quality band goes a long way at College athletics events.
I think if we go back to the % of fans who are locals, then halftime entertainment and engagement is important. We have a FAR FAR greater likelihood of getting locals to attend in the numbers required than we do getting alumni to drive many hours OR students to get their heads out of their _____.
While I agree with your personal opinion, I do think that drawing bigger region crowds is option 1A and growing student involvement is option 1AB . . . then option 9 is entice alumni do travel 3+ hours to a game.
And when the Crown Point girls 6th grade team sells 50 tickets to concession-buyers in attendance....
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 06:13:14 PM
He's getting soundly and rightly called out for this in the comments. Good. I hope he learns from this (but he probably won't).
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1043609292165861377
What a moron. They get like 50 non scholarship students to come - kids that wouldn't have chosen Valpo in the first place, and kids that will donate and be engaged as alumni in the future. Sure the team is historically putrid, but cutting it is a stupid idea.
The kid is also obtuce to the fact that football brings in over 100 male students to the campus annually which is a university desire in maintaining a 50-50 enrollment split.
No VU student leader of an athletics support group should be unsupportive and highly critical voice of Valpo sports teams. If he/she fits tha negative profile, they should be asked to do so privately as an individual and not the voice of Valparsizone.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 27, 2018, 08:21:33 PM
If he/she fits tha negative profile, they should be asked to do so privately as an individual and not the voice of Valparsizone.
It sounds like that may have already happened. He stepped down as the self proclaim leader of the student section. By my estimation there wasn't much leadership or work being done. Being a leader requires taking initiative and not just running a twitter account.
Not sure why Valpo stopped having the Midnight Madness. It was a fun tradition and it kicked off the season.
https://twitter.com/jon_sherrick/status/1048784487843352576
We need the Valpo Student Section to get it's edge back lol
https://twitter.com/VoxSlug/status/1049481037963640832
This doesn't have to do with student attendance but does have to do with crowd participation and drawing fans to the ARC. A great idea!
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/18499/valpo-basketball-teams-to-hold-open-practice-at-hammond-civic-center/
Great idea! Looked at some of the HCC images in Google and it looks like a great place to showcase our teams. Would love to levitate the arena and plunk it down on the Porter property. It has the old fashioned look and confines that make it a real pit and a terrible place for visiting teams. Hope there is a good turnout and that between Valpo and the City of Hammond the promotion is really heavy.
As a later afterthought -- might this be a toe in the water to see if one or two OOC games might wind up being played there in the future? Students come on buses and regular season ticket holders have a little longer drive, but it might generate some increased local interest and widen the fan base.
Great idea to hold practice....hope they never play a "home" game anywhere besides on campus.
Not a bad idea to raise our recruiting profile in Lake County as well.
I think it's a great idea. A good way to raise your profile with local athletes and students at a younger age, plus a good way to remind the region we are here. I also wonder what will Happen with Purdue Northwest's recent diploma change? Valpo is already seeing an increase in commuter students. I wonder if this would help drive even more people to us instead of their now that they don't get a plain "purdue university" diploma
I would think that high on the promotion list would be personal invitation letters to every HS HBB coach (boys & girls) in Lake county as well as Porter county to attend along with their players. The program could also double as a coaching clinic, with both Matt and Mary describing drills to the audience and explaining desired outcomes, etc.
This is a really good idea. I think they used to do a coaches clinic, but thats been at least a few (handful) of years.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 10, 2018, 09:20:55 AM
I would think that high on the promotion list would be personal invitation letters to every HS HBB coach (boys & girls) in Lake county as well as Porter county to attend along with their players. The program could also double as a coaching clinic, with both Matt and Mary describing drills to the audience and explaining desired outcomes, etc.
Love this idea. Could be huge for building connections and getting on the radar of local recruits.
Clearly the Athletic Department is trying to expand our reach and also to bring more excitement to the game day experience. Today they announced on Facebook that the Jan 26 Drake game will be "Boy Band Night" (whatever that might be!) ???
Ran across this on twitter. Good idea!
Posted by Valpo Basketball this afternoon.
"Hey Valpo Students!! Come hang out with our players at 6 in Brandt Hall!! Free pizza and giveaways provided!!"
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
If only Valpo Basketball had something like this. It would be awesome.
https://twitter.com/espn/status/1071196033860988928
Went to Bloomington and took in my first IU game in person yesterday. What a great experience even without any students being there. Place was packed and there was something happening nonstop during timeouts. If you've never been to Assembly Hall it's a must see.
Would love to see Valpo Swim Tean do this again lol. The swim team use to do this every season. They were some of the most passionate fans in the Valparaizone.
The student section was awesome on Saturday. I hope we can keep that going.
https://twitter.com/SIU_Basketball/status/1087110232948510720
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/1087111947991072768
We will always struggle with numbers.
1. We have 4,000 undergrad. 40% (being generous) of the student body shows up and we are at 1600
2. Not very many alumni living within 30 minute drive of campus.
3. Small town
Do whatever marketing we can but we will always be limited due to the factors stated above.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 20, 2019, 04:22:22 PM
Would love to see Valpo Swim Tean do this again lol. The swim team use to do this every season. They were some of the most passionate fans in the Valparaizone.
The student section was awesome on Saturday. I hope we can keep that going.
https://twitter.com/SIU_Basketball/status/1087110232948510720
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/1087111947991072768
Interesting response. So they won't support the BBall team unless they show up to the Swim meets.
I don't think she realizes that the Swim Team use to do the same thing the SIU team did pretty much every single year.
https://twitter.com/reddanielleow/status/1087128453911064576?s=21
https://twitter.com/valposwim/status/788128081865220096?s=21
I do think it's important to support as many sports as possible. I try to make a football, softball and baseball game at least once a year. But I'm not sitting through a four hour swim meet in 80 degree pool air. Swimming is one of the most physically tough sports out there. A spectator sport it is not. (Olympics are different. I'm on my couch and can change channels between races.)
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 20, 2019, 06:16:05 PM
I do think it's important to support as many sports as possible. I try to make a football, softball and baseball game at least once a year. But I'm not sitting through a four hour swim meet in 80 degree pool air. Swimming is one of the most physically tough sports out there. A spectator sport it is not. (Olympics are different. I'm on my couch and can change channels between races.)
Yeah swimming is a pretty grueling sport and the training is intense, but probably not a big spectator sport.
Her response kind of surprised me. It comes off as a bit bitter that swimming doesn't get a great amount of fan support. It comes across as, "Well they don't support us so why should we support them?" That's not a healthy attitude, imo.
The swim team use to be BIG supporters of the men's basketball team. I know the swim team went through a coaching change recently, so maybe there was a culture change as well?
I think she thinks you want to see them in their swim suits 👀...vs just see them be rowdy behind the hoop.
Quote from: M on January 20, 2019, 07:30:22 PM
I think she thinks you want to see them in their swim suits 👀...vs just see them be rowdy behind the hoop.
Haha well that was a giant miscommunication. They could show up in pajamas for all I care. Although I did find it absolutely hilarious when the Valpo Swim Team would show up in speedo to distract the free throw shooters.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 20, 2019, 06:43:23 PMQuote from: NativeCheesehead on January 20, 2019, 06:16:05 PMI do think it's important to support as many sports as possible. I try to make a football, softball and baseball game at least once a year. But I'm not sitting through a four hour swim meet in 80 degree pool air. Swimming is one of the most physically tough sports out there. A spectator sport it is not. (Olympics are different. I'm on my couch and can change channels between races.)
Yeah swimming is a pretty grueling sport and the training is intense, but probably not a big spectator sport. Her response kind of surprised me. It comes off as a bit bitter that swimming doesn't get a great amount of fan support. It comes across as, "Well they don't support us so why should we support them?" That's not a healthy attitude, imo. The swim team use to be BIG supporters of the men's basketball team. I know the swim team went through a coaching change recently, so maybe there was a culture change as well?
I took her response as just trying to be a little funny. Looked at some of her other posts and they seem light hearted and humorous. My opinion is the comment was not condescending or mean spirted.
How about the offensive line show up in speedos to distract the opposing team?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 20, 2019, 08:14:01 PM
How about the offensive line show up in speedos to distract the opposing team?
haha that'll work :rotfl:
*free throw shooters be like*
(https://media.giphy.com/media/cJL1Y7MY1akc8/giphy.gif)
Turn back the clock event - see previous topic. I really think this would be a great event.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 21, 2019, 10:38:07 AM
Turn back the clock event - see previous topic. I really think this would be a great event.
Yes, but not at a marquee game. Lower conference opponent or decent non-conference opponent would be ideal. Indiana State recognized the 40 year anniversary of Larry Bird and the Championship runner-up team at the same game in which they played Loyola - which makes no sense. Use your promotional ideas to generate attendance at games in which you are not already going to get strong attendance.
I dunno about that. I think ISU played that perfectly. For something like that 1979 reunion and Larry Bird appearance, you definitely want to make sure you have a full building. One way to do that is to make sure you have a game that's already going to draw well. A sellout of 10,000+ isn't probably going to happen for the Loyola game on its own or the '79 day on its own.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 21, 2019, 07:41:24 PM
I dunno about that. I think ISU played that perfectly. For something like that 1979 reunion and Larry Bird appearance, you definitely want to make sure you have a full building. One way to do that is to make sure you have a game that's already going to draw well. A sellout of 10,000+ isn't probably going to happen for the Loyola game on its own or the '79 day on its own.
Well we'll get Bryce back at the ARC next season and that better be a sell out.
10% chance Bryce comes back to the ARC
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 21, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
10% chance Bryce comes back to the ARC
Not from what I've heard. I think fans will be much happier about next seasons non-conference schedule.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 21, 2019, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 21, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
10% chance Bryce comes back to the ARC
Not from what I've heard. I think fans will be much happier about next seasons non-conference schedule.
And the timing couldn't be better when we have a legit chance to be a Sweet Sixteen team.
Quote from: vu72 on January 21, 2019, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 21, 2019, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 21, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
10% chance Bryce comes back to the ARC
Not from what I've heard. I think fans will be much happier about next seasons non-conference schedule.
And the timing couldn't be better when we have a legit chance to be a Sweet Sixteen team.
Is it more than just Vanderbilt (possibly) and GW?
Side bet. Vandy not coming to the ARC. Hope I'm Wrong though
Sweet Sixteen?
Slow down pal
Let's try to get in the top half of the league first
I remember the AD saying somewhere that there will be a home and home with Vandy starting next year at the ARC. So unless the buy it out, if that is an option, then they will be here next year.
Quote from: Valpo2013 on January 22, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
Sweet Sixteen?
Slow down pal
Let's try to get in the top half of the league first
https://mvc-sports.com/standings.aspx?path=mbball (https://mvc-sports.com/standings.aspx?path=mbball)
Like Valpo, other MVC programs are using free food to incentivize students to attend:
ISU's Muller joins in trend to draw students to games
https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/professional/football/kindred-isu-s-muller-joins-in-trend-to-draw-students/article_7744c82f-4537-5551-8102-2d07eeab9324.html
I need to give a huge shout out to the student section the last handful of games! They have been getting better and better as the semester has went on! Love seeing kind of support!
Need to recognize Danny Dalenberg (on twitter: @dannyd_53 ) who is the President of the PIKE fraternity and he calls the radio broadcasts when Todd is doing TV. He has really been a driving force for the student sections resurgence lately. He has been rallying the students and Greek Life. Maybe a future guest on USH, Paul? He needs to be recognized and commended. I know fans and Alums have been happy.
https://twitter.com/ValpoAdmission/status/1094712962776993792
https://twitter.com/valposwim/status/1094766514669002752
https://twitter.com/ward_mrw/status/1094814304417865728
Been nice seeing more and more students...next step is to get them on the same page with some cheers and chants. Awesome turnout today by students and community alike. We'll get um next time.
Last night proved a lot of folks - like me -
wrong. Despite the crappy facilities, people WILL come out in masses to support this team IF you give them a reason to do so and we play against a good rival. Loyola can be THAT rival. Just like Butler. And, I'll give you 5,000 reasons why that's the case. People showed up in masses. A visiting student section. Wow. What a night. And, for the first half - we got a show! We're halfway there. But, alas, the true issues underlying this program popped up in the second half. Yes, ML it was an amazing atmosphere. That is or should be the standard. But, he's gotta coach up to that standard. We got worked by Porter and Co. in the second half. No adjustments on our end. Plain and simple. Stop blaming it on Ryan being hurt and needing another shooter. No duh - every team would want their best shooter on the court! That aside, there's red flags we continue to ignore.
Interesting take here. Garret does a great job with Danny calling the students broadcasts. I just happen to flat out disagree with him here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with students chanting BS after a horrendous call. Things like that make college basketball really entertaining and chants help build the college atmosphere. Loyola students were doing same thing at their game and I loved it. They're doing their jobs in the student section. As long as it doesn't get vulgar (which I've never heard ever from VU students, I have absolutely for it) and remains light hearted.
Someone needs to teach the students some of the fun old school chants lol.
https://twitter.com/GarrettWillis19/status/1094720415749074945
Quote from: VU2010 on February 11, 2019, 07:37:07 AM
Last night proved a lot of folks - like me -
wrong. Despite the crappy facilities, people WILL come out in masses to support this team IF you give them a reason to do so and we play against a good rival. Loyola can be THAT rival. Just like Butler. And, I'll give you 5,000 reasons why that's the case. People showed up in masses. A visiting student section. Wow. What a night. And, for the first half - we got a show! We're halfway there. But, alas, the true issues underlying this program popped up in the second half. Yes, ML it was an amazing atmosphere. That is or should be the standard. But, he's gotta coach up to that standard. We got worked by Porter and Co. in the second half. No adjustments on our end. Plain and simple. Stop blaming it on Ryan being hurt and needing another shooter. No duh - every team would want their best shooter on the court! That aside, there's red flags we continue to ignore.
Were you saying Matt blamed it on Ryan not being on the court? I didn't hear that. At the same time, it IS a way different team with him on the floor. For the most part, the zones go away. And a bigger reason yesterday was not Ryan it was Markus. When was the last time he went scoreless? The flu has a way of changing your shot or driving to the basket. Maybe the thought of crapping your pants or throwing up has a way of slightly altering ones effort. I know, excuses, excuses.
Still, I wonder if we can't win the whole thing when and if we finally get the entire team (other than Micah ???) on the floor at the same time.
Anyone with the ADs ear needs to tell him the speedos were fun. One of my former classmates from the chair backs told me MLB was very upset when they came out.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 11, 2019, 08:50:52 AM
Anyone with the ADs ear needs to tell him the speedos were fun. One of my former classmates from the chair backs told me MLB was very upset when they came out.
What lol? It was hilarious. Keep it going!!
I don't want to be critical of MLB because he's done some nice things but I think he needs some help or to get a different perspective on what makes the gameday experience fun for the fans (customers!!!!). I (and I know many other alums) absolutely loved the swim team yesterday and student section. Seriously a rabid student section makes the games WAY more fun to attend and be apart of.
https://twitter.com/kyle321n/status/1094716940097150976
These are another pair of enlightening tweets that I found very important to point out to MLB and Aaron's attention.
Please don't just shrug this comment off. In Paul's end of the season Podcast I hope he drives this point home. We need to figure out a way to not kill the vibe and crowd with these ads. If other schools can seamlessly blend them into the arena without killing the crowd energy than so can we!
I got no issue with a good BS chant....our students gave it a go once, then the next call they did it again with a little less enthusiasm, then the third call in a row there it was again. Only one of those three was at all questionable. Use some discretion.
Quote from: M on February 11, 2019, 09:22:24 AM
I got no issue with a good BS chant....our students gave it a go once, then the next call they did it again with a little less enthusiasm, then the third call in a row there it was again. Only one of those three was at all questionable. Use some discretion.
Haha yeah I sort of think our student section is learning "on the fly". It feels like we're rebuilding the student section culture in real time. It's a process. I'm just grateful things seem to be headed in a positive direction. They have been great the last few games. Need to teach these kids the cheers.
Might say they are progressing nicely.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 11, 2019, 08:50:52 AM
Anyone with the ADs ear needs to tell him the speedos were fun. One of my former classmates from the chair backs told me MLB was very upset when they came out.
The AD does read these posts from time to time and will respond on occassion. I'm glad he doesn't read every post because he has a football coach to hire. As far as the swimmers in the speedos I think it was not too risque but MLB has many people in his ear who might find that offensive with their kids at the game.
I was personally offended by the guys in Speedos. Made me feel ridiculously out of shape.
One thing I noticed the last time and felt was also noticeable this time is they do not take time to get the audience's attedance. They just start the stuff immediately and people are still talking and not paying attention. This is also a problem even when the team is coming in. They basically announce it right as the flag runs in and so by the time you realize what's happening the entrance has occurred. They should allow for some pump up time. I think of the Chicago Bulls pre game music and such as the epitome (since I'm local) and obviously that's excessive but they definitely could do a bit more "get hype" for entrance of our players. I mean even a little "GET ON YOUR FEET AND GET READY" yell.
Let's remember that you cannot please everyone. Reading here that some might have been offended by the Speedo section and others objected to the BS chant reminds me of the time I convinced a faculty member to attend the game with me. Although at the university for years, she had never been to a VU basketball game. When the opposing team was introduced, she seriously turned to me and said that it was not proper for the students to boo the announcement of the other team's names. Then, when the student section chanted insults at an official after a bad call, she labeled that as disgracefully rude behavior that should never be exhibited by Valpo students. Needless to say, she never attended another game. ::)
Why don't we do the spotlight thing for player introductions? Also , Mr. LaBarbara, we need great improvement in our game atmosphere. About 35 minutes before the start of the game the One and only all-encompassing concession stand on the "second level" was still NOT OPEN!! AND, only one-half of the floor stand was open! Are you kidding me? I have never seen such long lines waiting for concessions, both upstairs and downstairs. Those kind of bad situations almost made me forget the Disaster Sound System we have in the ARC. Just ask Paul Oren as he was standing downstairs and saw the floor level fiasco.
We are not in the Summit League anymore...or are we? Some things we do , or don't do, just invite justly deserved criticism. Is anyone listening?
At least the great crowd and Student Section made it alot of fun to watch a hard fought game.
64, these are all very valid criticisms and the only thing I can tell you is these have been problems for years and if the AD / Admin considered these priorities they would have been fixed long ago.
As for the lighting, new LED lighting (Like Loyola has in their gym), would allow us to resume the lights out intros.
I think the spotlight thing got removed for tv reasons or the lights not coming back on quick enough...that was much cooler.
Quote from: valpopal on February 11, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Let's remember that you cannot please everyone. Reading here that some might have been offended by the Speedo section and others objected to the BS chant reminds me of the time I convinced a faculty member to attend the game with me. Although at the university for years, she had never been to a VU basketball game. When the opposing team was introduced, she seriously turned to me and said that it was not proper for the students to boo the announcement of the other team's names. Then, when the student section chanted insults at an official after a bad call, she labeled that as disgracefully rude behavior that should never be exhibited by Valpo students. Needless to say, she never attended another game. ::)
Her and others like the student radio kid
"Lighten up Francis"
Quote from: valpo64 on February 11, 2019, 10:57:18 AM
Why don't we do the spotlight thing for player introductions? Also , Mr. LaBarbara, we need great improvement in our game atmosphere. About 35 minutes before the start of the game the One and only all-encompassing concession stand on the "second level" was still NOT OPEN!! AND, only one-half of the floor stand was open! Are you kidding me? I have never seen such long lines waiting for concessions, both upstairs and downstairs. Those kind of bad situations almost made me forget the Disaster Sound System we have in the ARC. Just ask Paul Oren as he was standing downstairs and saw the floor level fiasco.
We are not in the Summit League anymore...or are we? Some things we do , or don't do, just invite justly deserved criticism. Is anyone listening?
At least the great crowd and Student Section made it alot of fun to watch a hard fought game.
This is a good post
Thank You
Quote from: valpopal on February 11, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Let's remember that you cannot please everyone. Reading here that some might have been offended by the Speedo section and others objected to the BS chant reminds me of the time I convinced a faculty member to attend the game with me. Although at the university for years, she had never been to a VU basketball game. When the opposing team was introduced, she seriously turned to me and said that it was not proper for the students to boo the announcement of the other team's names. Then, when the student section chanted insults at an official after a bad call, she labeled that as disgracefully rude behavior that should never be exhibited by Valpo students. Needless to say, she never attended another game. ::)
She doesn't sound like a sports fan. Probably not the target market that would ever be a repeat customer and that's fine.
I loved the student section yesterday and I hope the student sections continues to be rowdy because that makes the atmosphere fun and collegiate.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 11, 2019, 10:57:18 AM
Why don't we do the spotlight thing for player introductions? Also , Mr. LaBarbara, we need great improvement in our game atmosphere. About 35 minutes before the start of the game the One and only all-encompassing concession stand on the "second level" was still NOT OPEN!! AND, only one-half of the floor stand was open! Are you kidding me? I have never seen such long lines waiting for concessions, both upstairs and downstairs. Those kind of bad situations almost made me forget the Disaster Sound System we have in the ARC. Just ask Paul Oren as he was standing downstairs and saw the floor level fiasco.
We are not in the Summit League anymore...or are we? Some things we do , or don't do, just invite justly deserved criticism. Is anyone listening?
At least the great crowd and Student Section made it alot of fun to watch a hard fought game.
64, brings up great points. These are basic things that need to be addressed. Would love to see the spotlights come back for player intros. Made it fun and grabbed everyone's attention.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 11, 2019, 02:35:29 PMWould love to see the spotlights come back for player intros. Made it fun and grabbed everyone's attention.
I also miss the drum line. It added excitement and as far as I know it was something unique to the ARC. Of course, I've always preferred live performance over recorded.
Quote from: humbleopinion on February 11, 2019, 02:48:26 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 11, 2019, 02:35:29 PMWould love to see the spotlights come back for player intros. Made it fun and grabbed everyone's attention.
I also miss the drum line. It added excitement and as far as I know it was something unique to the ARC. Of course, I've always preferred live performance over recorded.
I know Paul mentioned possibly taking "call-ins" to the podcasts or at least jokingly mentioned getting fan reactions post-game to get the raw emotions of fans. If there is anyway we could create mp3 audio file and email it to him to input into the podcast that would a cool idea. If we could directly create a mp3 audio file to ask questions and have MLB answer/respond to our questions that would be interesting.
I think there are some great (inexpensive) ideas on this board but it's going to take execution on the other end. If we can't do it. Why? If there is an obstacle, why can we find a work around to the problem?
I believe that the spotlight thing was stopped by the Horizon League office after complaints from other HL schools. That is when we were dominating the League and the "Commish" was doing everything in his power to slow us down and keep the other members happy. As I recall it had nothing to do with our lighting system. Ooops, sorry I brought it up as that is another thing MLaB and others should make a note of and correct....the lighting. Altho I'm sure some like the "gold hue" of the game lighting. It reminds me of the old Hilltop lighting which, in fact, is better now than the ARC. Figure that one out! Please, Crusader Administrators, let's show the program a little love. Less we forget, we are now in the MVC, not the old ICC.
Positives to take away ....
A lot of the things Paul talked about in last week's USH were addressed. Not all but some. Kudos to the folks in charge for making some easy changes. No fan votes on which song to play, right? That's a win.
The AD was upset about the concession stands opening late, he was excited to see our student-athletes supporting each other.
Quote from: VU2010 on February 11, 2019, 06:04:00 PM
Positives to take away ....
A lot of the things Paul talked about in last week's USH were addressed. Not all but some. Kudos to the folks in charge for making some easy changes. No fan votes on which song to play, right? That's a win.
I like the fan votes on which song to play. After all, I thought we want to appeal to the larger number of fans, plus the better choice always wins!
Since the Ball State game (includes those numbers):
Avg attendance for MVC games:3359
Avg attendance from Ball State onwards: 3214
Sub 2500 crowds: 2 (PNW Missouri State really cold day)
3500+ Crowds: 4 (Ball State Illinois State Drake Loyola)
Kudos to the athletic department for putting on great events for the games that are drawing these numbers up. (opposing fans traveling has helped some as well we must admit) Once again though it comes down to team performance and real or perceived opponent quality. Valpo is competitive and exciting and performing okay against an MVC slate, and attendance numbers are solid. Let's hope I'm wrong about in-state opponents and that Indiana State and Evansville can produce solid crowds. Go Valpo!
ml, it's great that the AD was upset about the concession stands opening late. I'm more concerned about the lack of a plan to avoid it in the future. This happened multiple times over winter break and yet still happened at arguably the biggest game of the year.
The off the court game day experience seems to mirror the on the court product. Strong core, solid foundation, reason for optimism.......complete lack of attention to detail.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 11, 2019, 08:50:52 AM
Anyone with the ADs ear needs to tell him the speedos were fun. One of my former classmates from the chair backs told me MLB was very upset when they came out.
Did anyone notice that Mark LaBarbera re-tweeted the following? Well played MLB! :thumbsup:
[tweet]1094766514669002752[/tweet]
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 21, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
10% chance Bryce comes back to the ARC
Might go up a little in %. All it would take is an invite to Bryce and Homer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Saw this article this morning regarding sporting event attendance. As has already been discussed on this board, this attendance problem is widespread, and not limited to VU.
The Athletics Department is swimming upstream in order to get fans in the stands. If the Athletics Department wants more fans in attendance (which might be a big IF), then understanding the challenge means that the department must be more aggressive than it would be on a typical task. And, they will need to take an 'all hands on deck' or 'all of the above' type approach, meaning that there will need to be quality opponents, better parking, better concessions, better down-time/half time entertainment, engagement by the team, better marketing, etc.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-teams-running-out-of-fans/ss-AAE5Abe?li=BBnb7Kz
"Each year, tens of millions of Americans pour into arenas, parks, rinks, and stadiums to see a professional sporting event in one of the four major American sports leagues -- the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB.
But fans are now less inclined to go to games in person. Each league saw a decline in total attendance from 2008 to 2018. Fans are often unwilling to pay high ticket prices, and teams don't seem to care, as an increasing amount and share of their revenues come from lucrative TV contracts as opposed to ticket sales. But not all teams are losing fans at an equal rate. Some have seen average attendance declines of more than a third over the last decade.
To determine the sports teams running out of fans, 24/7 Wall St. used sports attendance data from ESPN to find the pro sports franchises that had an attendance decline of at least 10% from the 2008 season to the 2018 season. Teams that switched venues or made significant changes to their existing venue were not considered.
While it is tough to know exactly what is stopping fans from coming to games, losing is likely a top cause. Fans are simply not willing to pay top dollar to see a game that will probably end in disappointment for them. In fact, 10 of the 12 teams running out of fans played worse in 2018 than they did a decade earlier. Every team can have losing seasons, but franchises that always seem to come up short can lose the attention of their fans. Those squads are the hardest teams to root for.
Not all teams have attendance slumps for the same reason. Some teams, like the Philadelphia Phillies, usually have a packed stadium, but recent struggles seem to have impacted attendance. Other teams, like the Tampa Bay Rays, have never had strong attendance, and the one-time surge they experienced after their franchise-best 2008 season has long since dissipated. This is each MLB team's best season in franchise history."
I know Valpo Students run this Twitter Account. They are left asking questions.
https://twitter.com/barstool_valpo/status/1484164000191549444?s=21
I will say both giveaway's and theme nights as well as some half time acts are improving. Plus Beer.
Outside of winning more I think the students themselves that are invested in this need to figure out what motivates and works on campus NOW.
Like a lot of things like this. Students create, feed and encourage the hype around things and hopefully the university encourages it or gets out of the way.
Quote from: crusader05 on January 20, 2022, 10:47:20 AM
I will say both giveaway's and theme nights as well as some half time acts are improving. Plus Beer.
Outside of winning more I think the students themselves that are invested in this need to figure out what motivates and works on campus NOW.
Like a lot of things like this. Students create, feed and encourage the hype around things and hopefully the university encourages it or gets out of the way.
Part of it is the pandemic. People are still cautious about not wanting to get sick.
1) is the product on the court. It's just not on par with what has been expected by this program. It's not just W-L. The standard of quality court play has slip considerably in the Lottich era. The AD and President to need to address that.
2) atmosphere is dead and that starts with the students and VU band. They need to bring in the students to enhance the atmosphere.
3) the ARC looks like a time capsule to 1987. The University needs to address this badly. Plan to create a new facility or get the funding together for giving the ARC a massive face lift.
All of this is easier said than done, but they've had multiple years to address some of these issues. With the facilities (decades...).
If the University plans to finance the renovations with debt and not donors, GET MOVING because debt is going to start getting much more expensive over the course of the next few years because the US Federal Reserve is going to raise interest rates to combat the large spikes of inflation we've seen over the last year. 7% year over year inflation (highest in 40+ Years).
The time for action was years ago. Don't rush into things but realize time is not on their side.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 20, 2022, 11:26:19 AMThe time for action was years ago. Don't rush into things but realize time is not on their side.
President Padilla has stated that addressing the problems with the ARC is a priority. He said that the board of directors will determine whether to build a new facility or extensively remodel the current building to create an arena. We should expect the plan prior to next school year.
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 20, 2022, 12:57:15 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 20, 2022, 11:26:19 AMThe time for action was years ago. Don't rush into things but realize time is not on their side.
President Padilla has stated that addressing the problems with the ARC is a priority. He said that the board of directors will determine whether to build a new facility or extensively remodel the current building to create an arena. We should expect the plan prior to next school year.
I'm hoping they get the ball moving on this.
The arena is not the reason that students don't go to the games. It is apathy tied to the results, and wanting to sit indoors with the least movement possible. Yes, pgmado, come after me. Gen Z sucks :)
Tx - absolutely, obesity levels continue to rise in the US.
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2022, 02:31:01 PM
The arena is not the reason that students don't go to the games. It is apathy tied to the results, and wanting to sit indoors with the least movement possible. Yes, pgmado, come after me. Gen Z sucks :)
There was those times as a student where making that walk across the Valpo Frozen Tundra from dorms, fraternity house or bars to the ARC sucked in the winter but well worth it because going to games and being in student section was fun and you knew you'd see a good game on the court.
Now I don't understand this generation and I say this as a millennial. Maybe Valpo is attracting a different type of student?
If I had to pin point when the decline in student participation started to happen, was Alec Peters' senior year. Something about that season is when I noticed a consistent decline and you'd think that would be a peak year for student turn out, but it was a slow decline in the culture of going to games. Also the Teams really haven't been good after AP era.
I honestly would like to get Mark LaBarbera's candid thoughts on the state of the program. I don't want the guy who is the public face talking to Paul Oren Union Street Hoops and giving the PR tested answers. I want to know the how feels at fan level. It's really sad to see the decline from the Bryce Drew Coached era to Matt Lottich era. Mark has to know Matt is nowhere on Bryce's level as a Coach. If you want to give the growing pains argument the first few year argument, I'll hear you out but this is year 6(!). You know he isn't the guy. If you have any sort of out on that contract that isn't a large financial burden you need to take it.
VU2014 - I really hope Padilla is a leader that is more proactive in decision making than reactive like past presidents. As a Valpo alum, this been frustrating for me to see for decades, not just in the athletics situation but how they handles matters in several critical areas.
Exactly. I've seen some folks making excuses for current students tied to the weather. Are you kidding me? I have been in TX/hot weather for 30 of my 40 years, and Coach Twenge was having us wake up at 4 am for morning workouts at VU, walking/traveling to the ARC and Emory G Bauer Field in freezing temperatures, and sometimes running outside. What kind of pampered/wuss generation do we have now, where getting outside to walk to a game, is too much? Wimps :)
Please consider that student sections at many other programs are quite full. Thus, you are wrongly attributing apathy instead of higher expectations for the team.
I spend quite a bit of time with students in this generation. They are not lazy and they are not wimps. They want to get involved, but won't do so unless they feel it is worth their time and energy (relative to other options) AND they feel that they are part of a larger group. The way that you get them to attend games and be involved is to (a) win, (b) have good opponents (MVC is fine for that), and (c) make it cool for them to be involved. Remember, the same school with the same students filled the student section and beyond for volleyball. Why? They won and it became cool.
You do know literally everything you say about today's students was being said about all of us when we were students by our elders.
Gotta admit the past 2 posts were correct. The Valpo hoop experience needs to be improved. I go to Drake games and they do a lot of fun things and their fan base is pretty loyal. Nice, not overly extravagant facility but ideal for their school. Very good enthusiastic pep band. Serve beer at games and under control. Fun things going on during time outs.
Look for video of the fans at Bryce's Grand Canyon games. The students are crazy. It's awesome.
Of course, it's a lot bigger school in a warm climate. But the kids there care.
My 17 year old son is a soccer player. He barely cares about any of the other sports at his school. He has a job. He doesn't care about going to other sporting events.
So I can only imagine a college kid, who doesn't care about sports and has no connection to the players, isn't going to make an extra effort to go to a VU basketball game to see a struggling team. Even with the incentive of free pizza and a floppy cowboy hat.
Quote from: vu84v2 on January 21, 2022, 01:27:08 AM
Please consider that student sections at many other programs are quite full. Thus, you are wrongly attributing apathy instead of higher expectations for the team.
I spend quite a bit of time with students in this generation. They are not lazy and they are not wimps. They want to get involved, but won't do so unless they feel it is worth their time and energy (relative to other options) AND they feel that they are part of a larger group. The way that you get them to attend games and be involved is to (a) win, (b) have good opponents (MVC is fine for that), and (c) make it cool for them to be involved. Remember, the same school with the same students filled the student section and beyond for volleyball. Why? They won and it became cool.
Wimps and crybabies = Generation Z ;)
Perhaps expand alcoholic selection by adding quality wine....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUGKJ13RQq8
How to boost attendance engagement and enthusiasm:
1. Win games Lots of them
End of list
Is there a sense of community on campus or are all non sport gatherings the same with no student participation?