We have a 1 game winning streak. Let's keep it going!
We played well against SIU at the ARC a few weeks ago. Sorolla and Max had a big game against them. I think the key to a win is to get the Twin Towers going early and establishing them in the post. SIU is some how tied for 2nd in the league but they seem beatable. Credit to Hinson and his players for over coming injuries this season. This is a winnable game.
Two 7 footers on the floor at the same time.....Don't know if it could be done. It would clog the lane and force our 3 and 2 to shoot..... :-\
I'm down with playing Marten as the 4 alongside one of the 7 footers. I think Marten could be a post 4 and grab some rebounds. :twocents:
Didn't get to watch a whole lot of the game we played against SIU a few weeks ago, but I think it's safe to say we will not shoot the 3 as well as we did at home. I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but SIU has gotten hot in the last few weeks and they are going to want to beat us after losing to us. I would be surprised to see us pull this one out.
That said, SIU doesn't turn over the ball as much as Indiana St, so we're definitely going to need to get our defensive rebounds and not allow 2nd chance points if we want to compete in this game. Also, we left a lot of points on the floor last game missing layups and free throws, we have got to clean that up to be more competitive in this league.
I hope the last game ends up being a turning point for the remainder of the season, but I think Valpo needs to play the best game they've played all season for us to win this one. #GoValpo
I like when Linssen is in the game...he just fouls so fast you better not blink while he is in there.
I doubt we will beat them the same way we did the first time around, but I'll say we adjust to their adjustment and come out on top.
72-68 road winners!
SIU fan's forum thread for this game: http://www.salukination.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4339&sid=1c5a11c4e580f051059108bff10984b0
We need rebounding. We are getting outrebounded by MVC opponents by more than 6 rpg. Someone, someone, please hit the boards.
Valpo 73
SIU 71
Valpo 74
SIUC 72
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/959497377836085248
AND they landed nice and safe at the "MDH" airport...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FRG116 took 'em 53 minutes to get there...
If you are into airports... here's their google aerial shots...
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88770fdbf632d13f%3A0xc44df2a9cf223e81!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.siairport.com%2F!5ssouthern%20illinois%20airport%20-%20Google%20Search&imagekey=!1e1!2shttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.siairport.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F03%2FTechPark_Sky-34.jpg&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7tLLbmYjZAhXm6IMKHTtKBOkQoioIeTAK
The amtrak station is only 1.2 miles from the Arena...
Amtrak Station in Carbondale
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7239425,-89.2165436,3a,75y,78.19h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYonkuBoYeTzDhhyZJn4vDg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DYonkuBoYeTzDhhyZJn4vDg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D75.194336%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Walk south on S. Illinois Ave. towards the Varsity Theater.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7237568,-89.2165199,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3JfNGZjR_EcOts0lqq_VFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Cross Mill Street.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.72014,-89.2160606,3a,75y,180h,99.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZkiRKPhitZl1qBJirQBB1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Go under this pedestrian walkway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7149975,-89.2152387,3a,75y,180h,99.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCsDyOAkdUobIxUI6_Fhv6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Go under a second pedestrian walkway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.712375,-89.2149021,3a,75y,180h,99.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHwwP0r4a3WLEeDiykmDDuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I would cut north of the tennis courts which are just outside the football stadium (where the big eclipse party was this summer) and through the parking lot to SIU Arena.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7100773,-89.2146473,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBaouHkwgXvDP8fhFphBT9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/SIU+Arena,+1400+Arena+Dr,+Carbondale,+IL+62901/Carbondale,+401+S+Illinois+Ave,+Carbondale,+IL+62901/@37.7091629,-89.2204188,275a,35y,90h,44.93t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8877123ac819aa99:0x427f1aa995e1276!2m2!1d-89.2187116!2d37.7083282!1m5!1m1!1s0x8877118648e01c51:0x10d428f72fc30caa!2m2!1d-89.2162822!2d37.7242382!3e0
It might be safer to walk through the campus instead of on S. Illinois Ave (Hwy 51) but there will be more buildings to go around.
Vu 77 SIU 69 the Best is yet to come!!!!!
Let's play spoiler.
https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/959802286250905603
Hinson stressing effort as he approaches win No. 300
TODD HEFFERMAN
The Southern
Feb 2, 2018
........
"We didn't play hard. This wasn't a fluke. They just absolutely whipped our butts," Hinson said. "Certainly they have size, they destroyed us on the interior, they destroyed us on the exterior. If we don't play better the same result will happen."
........
"We talk about executing your assignment, and it seems like every possession there is a guy that is not necessarily executing their assignment whether it be a box-out to clean out a possession, or a rotation," Lottich said. "I know we've been struggling to score, but for us, we're really more concerned of getting back to the defensive principles that we've kind of grown accustomed to."
.........
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 11:50:49 AM
Let's play spoiler.
https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/959802286250905603
Hinson stressing effort as he approaches win No. 300
TODD HEFFERMAN
The Southern
Feb 2, 2018
........
"We didn't play hard. This wasn't a fluke. They just absolutely whipped our butts," Hinson said. "Certainly they have size, they destroyed us on the interior, they destroyed us on the exterior. If we don't play better the same result will happen."
........
"We talk about executing your assignment, and it seems like every possession there is a guy that is not necessarily executing their assignment whether it be a box-out to clean out a possession, or a rotation," Lottich said. "I know we've been struggling to score, but for us, we're really more concerned of getting back to the defensive principles that we've kind of grown accustomed to."
.........
I wonder if Barry still stomps his foot and glares at the refs when he thinks they made a bad call.
If Valpo is winning at half time I'm donating $5, if they win it'll be another $5 to the Storm Intercept Project (my 7 year olds pick) on the VU crowd funding page. Anyone else want to play along?
https://crowdfunding.valpo.edu/s/1347/17/cf-home.aspx
Quote from: M on February 03, 2018, 06:22:23 PM
If Valpo is winning at half time I'm donating $5, if they win it'll be another $5 to the Storm Intercept Project (my 7 year olds pick) on the VU crowd funding page. Anyone else want to play along?
https://crowdfunding.valpo.edu/s/1347/17/cf-home.aspx
I'm in!
That makes 3...got the ML on twitter!
No Micah
https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/959951201142964224
According to the SIU announcers we are the Loyola Crusaders. If we lose can they have it show up as a loss for Loyola?
2 quick fouls on Mileek. Needs to learn to not pick up those cheap fouls.
Was that last foul on Smits really a charge? ??? The SIU player didn't seem totally set...
Mileek seems to be pressing because of the pace of the start of this game. I see this looking like the start of an HL game, where both teams are running, and shots are falling, or fouls are being called because the pace leads to easy cheap fouls. Do want to see this game keep a solid tempo, and have Valpo take the air out of the SIU student section.
We seem to be rebounding pretty well so far. Lots of open looks for them though.
Marty with a foul within 5 seconds of being in the game...
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 07:33:05 PM
Marty with a foul within 5 seconds of being in the game...
and another one... slow footwork
30 seconds later he has another
Boy, Max has been bad the last game plus.
Nice looking crowd in Carbondale for this one
Do we get to shoot free throws???
Teams in mvc are better the refs are not
Stupid foul by Golder, why clearout with a straight arm there. Geesh
These refs are horrendous...
(https://i.giphy.com/media/26tP41fh76vmLO3iU/giphy.webp)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 06:57:32 PM
Quote from: M on February 03, 2018, 06:22:23 PM
If Valpo is winning at half time I'm donating $5, if they win it'll be another $5 to the Storm Intercept Project (my 7 year olds pick) on the VU crowd funding page. Anyone else want to play along?
https://crowdfunding.valpo.edu/s/1347/17/cf-home.aspx
I'm in!
Best $5 spent this week!
Evelyn & Joseph have been a turnover machine. Some of Evelyn's were like - what was he thinking? If they took just a little better care of the ball we might have a more comfortable lead.
Still, a six point lead at half? I'll take it.
Now bring it home in the second half.
Sucks to see Max play so poorly, he works so dang hard. Just not sure if he is quick enough for this level offensively.
0 pts 0 reb 2 stls 3 TO
We did some good things, but 14 TO's in 34 possessions? If that isn't some kind of record, it should be. Let's finish strong and get our first MVC sweep!
SIU was 1-10 from the arc. Valpo was 13-23 from the floor. Need to keep that trend going.
That's $5, let's make it an even $10 https://crowdfunding.valpo.edu/s/1347/17/cf-home.aspx
Big crowd at SIU tonight. Valpo - both the town and the campus - need to get off their butts, quit making excuses and show up.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 07:34:28 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 07:33:05 PM
Marty with a foul within 5 seconds of being in the game...
and another one... slow footwork
Footwork is key in the MVC! Rebounding, position on defense. This is a well coached conference.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TFW even the SIU announcer admits the call against Max was a phantom foul...
That foul call on Joseph was ridiculas!
Jeez Mileek and Marty are foul machines out there
The home cooking is getting silly.
Refs trying to keep SIU in the game.
God, now a phantom foul on Sorolla. MVC giving us the freshman hazing refs tonight.
Dude our interior defense is horrific
Abhorrent officiating.
"Horrendous" = called for three straight fouls playing clean defense. Ok, bro.
Well. Good to see that we're standing up for ourselves. I think.
That was an absolutely clean block by Sorolla. Ridiculous.
Ref called a foul on sorolla before any contact. 7-2 fouls
Anyone else's ESPN3 feed get really choppy in the 2nd half? I mean, it was fine in the first half.
It is *really hard* to play decent interior defense when you are whistled for a foul while defending straight up and whenever you go for a block, contact or no.
17-3 free throw difference with 7 minutes to go
It is still 1988 in Carbondale if that local pizza joint ad is to be believed. Straight cheese.
Finally get to the line and our best player bricks them both. Yeeeesh.
Can we just hit an occasional free throw? We're not going to get many chances tonight and we're out of practice but jeez can we at least hit like one of two maybe?
I guess not.
Kiser is just so bad offensively it hurts.
It's one thing to have a defense/hustle specialist. But not on an offensively challenged team like this.
I think it's safe to say that whoever loses this game lost because the refs hosed them
We are lucky Tevonn got 2 fouls on Pippen (benched him) or else he'd be destroying Smits right now
Oh god, this is awful. She's not moving.
Turnovers + missed free throws = nail biter
Quote from: wh on February 03, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
We did some good things, but 14 TO's in 34 possessions? If that isn't some kind of record, it should be. Let's finish strong and get our first MVC sweep!
I remember a game, maybe the late Smith era, where we had 40 turnovers. 40. The TO per minute team.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What play was that out of the time out?
This team insists on beating themselves.
Smits
Is
A
Defensive
Liability Liability Liability
This is where Lottich is rightfully questioned if he is the guy for the future.
Two bad set plays out of the last 2 timeouts. Coach what did you design?
What a pathetic last 6 minutes for our guys. We end up 3/8 in clutch time FTs, Joseph misses a wide open layup, and Evelyn chucks up an ill-timed 3. Very stupid...
This one is definitely on Lottich. No plan...
This is the most mentally soft team we've had in 30 years, easily.
Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2018, 08:58:45 PM
What a pathetic last 6 minutes for our guys. We end up 3/8 in clutch time FTs, Joseph misses a wide open layup, and Evelyn chucks up an ill-timed 3. Very stupid...
This one is definitely on Lottich. No plan...
Seniors that don't execute are a big part of the problem.
This sucks. I dunno if it's growing pains or if the program is on fire. It's just very hard watching this team right now.
Well, we didn't deserve to win this. We had every opportunity even with the terrible home cooking, but we didn't perform when we had to.
Turnovers, missed free throws, bad decisions in crunch time.
Same old same old this year.
Too many turnovers and couldn't hit a free throw to save our lives.
Also, horrible plays or whatever you want to call those out of timeouts.
Make free throws and you win...played well for 35 minutes. I don't know how the guy who torched us for 30+ last time gets left wide open??
Our coaching staff refusing to prioritize good FT shooting cost us the game tonight. MAKE YOUR PLAYERS USE THE FREAKING VIRGIL SWEET METHOD. Dear god. This is malpractice.
This team has no pride, and I will say again that it is the worst Valpo team I have watched in my 20 years of fandom. You lead for 95% of the game, and you don't even make 50% of your FTs down the stretch, you foul on defensive rebounds when the guy you are blocking out has no chance at the ball, and you get a dumb technical in a key time. Such a crap team.
I'd like to stay positive with my comments, but this team really makes positive comments difficult to find. Evelyn is not a point guard. The players just stand around on offense. Smits is a defensive liability. There is no leader on the court.
Definition of "Bad Defense".
Being in a tie game with 1 minute left and triple teaming the ball 5 feet beyond the 3 point line in order to ensure that there are 2 guys wide open to beat you.
Lottich should have never had us in a zone with less than a minute to go. His fault. Fair Criticism.
The officiating and free throw shooting were our down fall tonight...
They had been leaving him wide open all of the second half on that same play, and he never took that shot, so he was bound to try one out. I agree that it was ridiculous that we ended up with a triple team on a guy that was not in any danger of taking a shot that far out.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 03, 2018, 09:06:20 PM
Our coaching staff refusing to prioritize good FT shooting cost us the game tonight. MAKE YOUR PLAYERS USE THE FREAKING VIRGIL SWEET METHOD. Dear god. This is malpractice.
FT aren't on coach, end of story.
Out of timeouts you want to set up an open look or create a miss match.
What was the strategy out of timeout?
Both times!
Whatever coach drew up didn't work to give our guys an opportunity at the basket. Whatever you wanted to do, practice a bit more.
And if it doesn't yeild anything, scratch it and steal a play from someone else
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/959985969188438017
Wow! talk about bandwagon fans! We lost on the road to a team in second place and the refs gave them 13 more free throws? Yes, we blew it to a team with four seniors and five juniors. Sure. they beat up on our freshman and sophomores. Yes, Tevonn is not playing well and Max is limited. Still, a very solid effort for the majority of the game. At least when watching, I don't expect a win. I really think we are making progress. It is flat out hard to win on the road in the Valley. Get used to it, this isn't the Horizon. When was the last time we played in front of a packed home crowd? Probably against Butler. Sure as heck wasn't against Cleveland State or Youngstown State!
We've said it before, any team with the name VALPARAISO on its jerseys should be able to shoot free throws, and Steven Helm should be the unofficial free-throw coach. (Still, I can't blame Smits too much for the free throws he missed after standing around in a stunned arena for 15 minutes while the health staff attended to the injured cheerleader.) Having said that, the free throw disparity (24-11) was disgraceful, especially since there were so many phantom fouls called against Valpo. Also, I blame Sorolla's technical foul on Lottich, who has not earned the respect of the MVC officials. Sorolla, Smits, Evelyn, Walker, and others were complaining to the refs after bad calls because Lottich doesn't seem to have their backs and is not getting in the face of the officials enough. (Stop being Mister Nice Guy!) I don't like to make comparisons with Bryce, but he would have had a couple of technical fouls this conference season already. Hell, even Homer would have at least one!
PS: I have to acknowledge the student fan base at the other conference schools are putting ours to shame.
Refs may have been bad but I can't blame them when we played like garbage.
I love watching golder dunk but he needs to be careful hanging on the rim. He's going to get an unnecessary tech for it soon. I think he did it in a recent game and again tonight. He got lucky and both weren't called.
It drives me crazy when the other team goes small (like when SLU's tallest player was 6'5") and we have our 7 footer setting picks 18 to 20 feet from the basket.
Also if we hit just half of our missed FT's we win.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 09:19:00 PM
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/959985969188438017
Agree with 2014. :thumbsup:
Quote from: valpolaw on February 03, 2018, 09:28:14 PM
Refs may have been bad but I can't blame them when we played like garbage.
I don't think Valpo "played like garbage." Both teams shot exactly the same field goal percent (24-49 49%), rebounding was almost equal (30-29 SIU, 22-22 on defense), Valpo shot better from the three-point line (6-19 32% vs. 3-15 20%), Valpo led in points off turnovers (13-11) and tied in 2nd chance points (7-7). The Crusaders only played poorly in turnovers (17-11) and had 13 fewer free throws (24-11), which I blame on the refs. Those are pretty good stats overall against a second-place team on the road in front of a packed arena.
The support for my comment about playing like garbage is: missing a ton of free throws. I didn't look at the percentage but it had to be well under 50%. Smits played 21 minutes and doesn't get 1 rebound. How is that possible when you're 7 foot?
Marty plays 1 min and gets two fouls. Kiser plays 21 minutes and no points. I don't remember the last time he scored. I love his hustle but he brings nothing on the offensive side.
Turnovers killed us. We had to have 20 or more.
Poor play calling out of timeouts is on Lottich.
QuoteFT aren't on coach, end of story.
They absolutely are, when this happens over and over again with zero improvement and has now cost us at least three games this season. This is the problem with AAU ball replacing h.s. basketball as the preferred method for evaluating talent -- there is only priority put on athleticism and scoring, less on other skills, and FT shooting is barely evaluated or valued at all.
It is absolutely INSANE that a college coach in this day and age, with all of the reams of data and advanced metrics available to them, cannot figure out the critical importance that FTs play in increasing win percentage/likelihood, and somehow do not absolutely insist that their players shoot 70 percent or better in order to see the floor (which is perfectly reasonable ask for any h.s. player, much less a guy playing D-1 ball).
Quote from: valpolaw on February 03, 2018, 09:56:22 PM
The support for my comment about playing like garbage is: missing a ton of free throws. I didn't look at the percentage but it had to be well under 50%. Smits played 21 minutes and doesn't get 1 rebound. How is that possible when you're 7 foot?
Marty plays 1 min and gets two fouls. Kiser plays 21 minutes and no points. I don't remember the last time he scored. I love his hustle but he brings nothing on the offensive side.
Turnovers killed us. We had to have 20 or more.
Poor play calling out of timeouts is on Lottich.
We should shoot better on free throws but we didn't "miss a ton of free throws." You can't miss a ton when you only get 11! We were 5-11, and I already suggested that Smits was iced by the 15 minute wait while everyone was stunned by the injured cheerleader. It wasn't how many free throws we missed, it was how few we got to take (11 versus 24). Even if we shot a good 73% (8-11), that would be only 3 more points. Also, it is hard to be aggressive and get rebounds when you have four fouls and the officials can't be trusted. Finally, you obviously did not read my post to which you are responding: I noted we had 17 turnovers not "20 or more."
QuoteEven if we shot a good 73% (8-11), that would be only 3 more points.
Um, that means we would have basically been able to hold for a near-last shot in a tie game, increasing our chances to win significantly. Get crazy and go 9 of 11 and we have the lead and the ball with 40 seconds left if everything played out exactly the same.
I agree with these interesting post-game comments from Lottich:
"I thought we played hard enough to win that game."
"Our bigs weren't allowed to be very aggressive and that allowed Pippen to get into deep spots."
"The game came down to SIU getting so many free throws. They went to the line 24 times, we went only 11 times."
Our FTs are absolutely the reason we lost, regardless of the disparity. We went 3/8 down the stretch, and if we would have made 2 of those, it is a completely different finish, since we still would have been leading until the last minute.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 03, 2018, 10:04:58 PM
QuoteFT aren't on coach, end of story.
They absolutely are, when this happens over and over again with zero improvement and has now cost us at least three games this season. This is the problem with AAU ball replacing h.s. basketball as the preferred method for evaluating talent -- there is only priority put on athleticism and scoring, less on other skills, and FT shooting is barely evaluated or valued at all.
It is absolutely INSANE that a college coach in this day and age, with all of the reams of data and advanced metrics available to them, cannot figure out the critical importance that FTs play in increasing win percentage/likelihood, and somehow do not absolutely insist that their players shoot 70 percent or better in order to see the floor (which is perfectly reasonable ask for any h.s. player, much less a guy playing D-1 ball).
Thanks, but no thanks.
Quote from: valpopal on February 03, 2018, 10:13:14 PM
I agree with these interesting post-game comments from Lottich:
"I thought we played hard enough to win that game."
"Our bigs weren't allowed to be very aggressive and that allowed Pippen to get into deep spots."
"The game came down to SIU getting so many free throws. They went to the line 24 times, we went only 11 times."
I'm curious about something. Do coaches keep a book on referees or scout them? Certainly referees have tendencies as to what they are more likely to call or let go. Would a coach ever consider that in game planning? For example, if coach new that these referees wouldn't let bigs play aggressively on defense, would he have planned to double Pippen more instead of making our bigs try to defend him one on one and pretty much fail? Or is this year just getting to know refs we've never seen before and we just have to get some experience with them.
I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable would enlighten me.
QuoteThanks, but no thanks.
So, you don't want our coaches actually coaching FTs? Or you don't see the importance of them, or what? Data don't lie.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 03, 2018, 10:40:49 PM
QuoteThanks, but no thanks.
So, you don't want our coaches actually coaching FTs? Or you don't see the importance of them, or what? Data don't lie.
I think you are looking for a singular reason we are losing. Coaches are only a portion of the equation. I'd suggest we stop projecting EVERYTHING on our coaches as the sole reason we lose. My buddy Oklahomamick tells me everyday our coaches are rotten for not having 100% success on post timeout offensive sets 🤔
Anyone know why Bradford didn't play any tonight?
Home sick
Quote from: M on February 03, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Home sick
That's a shame. He'd been playing better the last couple of games.
Quote from: M on February 03, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Home sick
Wait really? Coach Gore said he was sick and was with his parents but I thought it was the flu or something. Not a good sign if he's getting home sick.
Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Our FTs are absolutely the reason we lost, regardless of the disparity. We went 3/8 down the stretch, and if we would have made 2 of those, it is a completely different finish, since we still would have been leading until the last minute.
Yes, and SIU was bad at the free throw line as well, missing 10 of them, but they got a hell of a lot more chances (more than twice as many)! In addition, the number of fouls called against our big guys made them more tentative inside. Therefore, I agree with Lottich that the disparity was the main difference.
Micah was back in Valpo battling an illness. If Mom and Dad were there to nurse him back to health, fine, but I'm thinking "home sick" was a bad choice of word usage to say why Micah wasn't in Carbondale tonight.
I'm thinking that the athletic department should conduct a class on avoiding communicable diseases. Maybe they could issue liter bottles of hand sanitizer and make use of surgical masks by scholarship athletes mandatory.
Even with a major free throw disparity it is extremely difficult to pin a loss on the officials when the team doesn't execute. When you turn it over 17 times and shoot less than 50% from the line you should expect to lose, especially on the road. Playing four on five on offense with Kiser in doesn't help. Playing four on five on defense with Smits in the game against a big like Pippen who can take advantage of the matchup doesn't help, especially when he doesn't rebound. The timeout plays where we got nothing didn't help. Missed layups, silly fouls, and blown defensive assignments, all of which happened in crunch time, don't help. Some of that is coaching, some of that is lack of on-court leadership, some of that is growing pains, but to blame any single factor is asinine.
It's clear that inexperience and unfamiliarity are our biggest hindrances right now. The good news is that both of those are fixable in 1-2 years' time or so. We have talent but it's too specialized, resulting in capable but flawed and limited players (Smits Sorolla Kiser and to an extent Joseph and Golder) and players who were miscast in their given roles (Walker Joseph Bradford Evelyn Hazen at the start of the year). You can get away with that in the HL, but not in the Valley.
Fortunately, we are working on the problem: Fazekas can be our go-to scorer and create driving lanes as defenses have to respect his jumpshot, Evelyn, Freeman-Liberty, Golder, McMillan, and the bigs will all benefit from this as they will get better looks inside and out. Sackey looks like the point guard we need to put the ball where it needs to go, generating better looks in more comfortable spots for everyone. It could also lead to moving Evelyn off the ball where I think he can do some special things. I think he's even more offensively gifted than Walker.
Natural growth from everyone and better personnel who fit well with our players' strengths should lead to better days ahead. I'm not saying we're going to definitely win the Valley we may not even avoid the Play-in games but we'll be better than we are now, we'll win more conference games, and we'll finish higher than 10th that's for sure. Go Valpo!
I'm as bullish as most on Mileek's long term future. But, bad refs or not, if you can't stay on the floor, you can't help your team.
Quote from: valpopal on February 03, 2018, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: valpolaw on February 03, 2018, 09:56:22 PM
The support for my comment about playing like garbage is: missing a ton of free throws. I didn't look at the percentage but it had to be well under 50%. Smits played 21 minutes and doesn't get 1 rebound. How is that possible when you're 7 foot?
Marty plays 1 min and gets two fouls. Kiser plays 21 minutes and no points. I don't remember the last time he scored. I love his hustle but he brings nothing on the offensive side.
Turnovers killed us. We had to have 20 or more.
Poor play calling out of timeouts is on Lottich.
We should shoot better on free throws but we didn't "miss a ton of free throws." You can't miss a ton when you only get 11! We were 5-11, and I already suggested that Smits was iced by the 15 minute wait while everyone was stunned by the injured cheerleader. It wasn't how many free throws we missed, it was how few we got to take (11 versus 24). Even if we shot a good 73% (8-11), that would be only 3 more points. Also, it is hard to be aggressive and get rebounds when you have four fouls and the officials can't be trusted. Finally, you obviously did not read my post to which you are responding: I noted we had 17 turnovers not "20 or more."
I was going to make the same comment. People go off with not even considering the facts or the reality of the situation.
Home sick and homesick are two different things. Before you goofballs tell me to reconsider my words maybe try reading them. 🤷♂️
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 03, 2018, 10:04:58 PM
QuoteFT aren't on coach, end of story.
They absolutely are, when this happens over and over again with zero improvement and has now cost us at least three games this season. This is the problem with AAU ball replacing h.s. basketball as the preferred method for evaluating talent -- there is only priority put on athleticism and scoring, less on other skills, and FT shooting is barely evaluated or valued at all.
It is absolutely INSANE that a college coach in this day and age, with all of the reams of data and advanced metrics available to them, cannot figure out the critical importance that FTs play in increasing win percentage/likelihood, and somehow do not absolutely insist that their players shoot 70 percent or better in order to see the floor (which is perfectly reasonable ask for any h.s. player, much less a guy playing D-1 ball).
So let's not let the facts get in the way. Sure, we are bad at free throw shooting but it goes with the territory of college basketball. So would the great Homer Drew or Bryce Drew do better? Let's travel back in time but before remember that as of right now we are shooting 68.4% from the line. Ex Micah Bradford we are shooting 70.6% but let's stick with 68.4%
So let's look at a few Homer Drew teams:
08-09 61.2%
10-11 66.5%
How about Bryce Drew teams:
14-15 67.5%
On to Matt Lottich (one complete season)
16-17 77.5%
Reality gets in the way of rants all to frequently for some of us!
So since we've been bad at free throws in the past we should be content with our current poor performances at the line?
Seems the same could probably said about our turnovers (don't have numbers, just going off memory).
Improve turnovers (will come with experience, I hope) and improve shooting (ft and 3pt) and that'll improve the winning percentage! Easy peasy
Quote from: M on February 04, 2018, 08:51:36 AM
So since we've been bad at free throws in the past we should be content with our current poor performances at the line?
Seems the same could probably said about our turnovers (don't have numbers, just going off memory).
Improve turnovers (will come with experience, I hope) and improve shooting (ft and 3pt) and that'll improve the winning percentage! Easy peasy
Didn't say that. Some were blaming Coach Lottich like he was the one shooting. Obviously his team percentage last year was better then any Bryce team. Different players, different skills. Can they do better? Let's hope so and experience playing in front of rabid fans will also help as they mature.
We got beat by a veteran team playing at home against one of the youngest teams in the Country. Our youthfulness and inexperience and inability to close out a close game on the road really showed last night.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2018, 01:21:01 AM
Even with a major free throw disparity it is extremely difficult to pin a loss on the officials when the team doesn't execute. When you turn it over 17 times and shoot less than 50% from the line you should expect to lose, especially on the road.
Valpo matched or did better than SIU on just about every category: field goal percentage, 3-point shooting, rebounds, points off turnovers, 2nd chance points, etc. If I told you before the game this would be the case, you'd probably take it and like our chances. They executed, not perfectly, but well enough to win. Valpo did have 17 turnovers, but they still out-scored SIU on points off turnovers 13-11 and they had the same amount of shots taken (both were 24-49). So, the turnovers didn't hurt as much as you would expect.
Also, yes, Valpo shot poorly from the free throw line, but so did SIU (they missed 10). The only disparity in the stats is the number of free throws (SIU 24, Valpo 11), and we all saw the phantom fouls on replays that even the SIU broadcasters couldn't believe were called. I usually don't like pointing to poor officiating as an excuse for a loss, but there are times when it cannot be denied that the disparity in calls was the difference in the game. SIU was playing a home game in front of a packed and energetic arena against a new team in the conference, whose coach hasn't yet earned the respect of the officials, while their coach was going for his 300th win, and I believe the refs certainly were influenced subconsciously by the situation. As Lottich said: "The game came down to SIU getting so many free throws. They went to the line 24 times, we went only 11 times."
Micah's Dad.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/960168387824570371
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/960173540090826752
I wonder if the impact of having six more turnovers isn't so much that we still scored more off theirs than they did off ours, but rather that we missed six more opportunities to score. For a somewhat offensively challenged team, it hurts to lose scoring opportunities. Had we converted half of them, the game would have been tighter at the end and we wouldn't have had to foul thereby reducing the free throw disparity. Point is that turnovers not only give the other team more chances to score, they also reduce the number of chances we get.
Just a thought.
Turnovers were 14 in 1st half, only 3 in 2d.
Some of you act like they don't know or haven't done anything about FT shooting. They know. Would you like the coaching staff to print out their practice plans and individual workout plans for you.
Frankly, they had their chances and didn't win. They did not execute. Joseph had a good lay up look and missed. But there was bemoaning on here for two weeks that they weren't competing, well they competed against the 2d place team in a packed, big house. This is what we wanted by moving up. I'm proud of their effort last night in the face of 8 on 5. Some cheered Matt for going zone at the end of the game Wednesday, now we complain he didn't go man.
And as to Smits rebounding, he was guarding Pippen, what was he supposed to rebound? Pippin was like 9 of 10 at one point. I like Pippen. He is a player unlike any we have seen in HL during past years.
Last night was the improvement we have been asking for. and, Mark LaBarbera was at last night's game and hopefully he has a letter heading to MVC HQ today about the officiating.
Finally, hope the cheerleader is doing ok this morning, any word.
Valpo84 makes a solid point, we knew after losing Joe this was going to be a bigger rebuilding year than planned.
Lost in our frustration (I still contend that Smits is maddeningly bad at defense/rebounds) is the improvement. Was this the first MVC road game we led for substantial minutes? Heck, probably the only one we were really in. UNI was NOT a game. Bradley was tight in the first half.
I'm just hoping we improve...
Oh they played a really good game, worked their hearts out, played fundamental team basketball. Give these guys a break. Too bad they lost.
Not a bandwagon fan here.
Indiana State we led at half and even into the second half fairly late until Barnes went off Bradley we actually outscored after spotting them 11 points and Missouri State we led most of the way and were right there until Alize Johnson took over.
Ugly game for both teams led to even game through 38 plus minutes--big difference besides FTs was your Bigs not being able to stop Pippen the whole game (9-11 from field)--just the opposite of what happened in your win at Valpo--you'll knock someone out in the tourney--hope it's not us
When we won against this team Bradford had six assists vs one turnover and was two of four shooting three pointers. His ability to dribble penetrate and dish to Sorolla for easy scores was a big reason we won. I recall several times we had turnovers last night trying to get the ball to our bigs. This may be due to SIU adjustments in defending, but we may have missed Bradford in this game more than we realized at the time.
Having a point that can penetrate and dish seems to make a big difference to our offense. Bakari still hasn't shown that consistent ability to me as a point, though he has other strengths that make me think that he may be better as a 2 rather than a 1. Next year if Bradford can correct his shooting problems he and the new kid might give us the kind of point play that would open up some things both for our shooters and our bigs, with Bakari and the other new kid giving us scoring punch from the 2.
Just a thought.
I frankly didn't see the game. Looking at the score on the road I don't get the meanness and griping.
SIU is 7-4. We beat them at home by a bunch. They beat us on the road in the last two minutes while playing against a huge crowd and apparently a big foul discrepancy.
I agree with VU72 that this board is full of bandwagoners. Stop kicking them and their coach when they are down. They are trending up.
Valpopal and others, since when do coaches have to "earn the respect of the officials" and what does that mean? Also, just how does the "respect" thing make a difference in a game?
It is a coaching art to "work the refs" for calls and longtime coaches like Ben Jacobson or Barry Hinson can get the benefit of the doubt and have some pull, particularly at home. There were a TON of "hometown" calls on Saturday. The refs tried to make a few makeup calls but the damage was done when they put our bigs in foul trouble in the 2nd half with ticky-tac BS foul calls. Jay and Smits couldn't be aggressive on the boards.
I understand all of that, the "homer" thing and all.... but respect for a coach I don't buy when it comes to getting a call or not
We need someone else start the Evansville game thread to hopefully change our luck. I was only good for 1 game. ;)
Quote from: valpo64 on February 05, 2018, 09:34:45 AM
Valpopal and others, since when do coaches have to "earn the respect of the officials" and what does that mean? Also, just how does the "respect" thing make a difference in a game?
Refs are human. In the business world it's often said the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It's a relief when the squeak stops and you can get back to your job at hand.
This conceivably happens in all facets of life, including the referee in a basketball game. There's a ton of room to insert emotions into calls, so I suspect that's his point. I'm not convinced that any ref can ignore properly asserted discontent from a coach. But you never get what you don't ask for...or plead!!!
64, it's kind of like what happens when a rookie hitter enters the MLB. He needs to show he knows the strike zone, and not show up the umps when calls go against him for a certain amount of time. If he shows that, then the 50/50 calls start going his way. Same with pitchers. Maddux' zone got larger as the years went on. Rizzo gets calls, Votto gets calls. Hoop coaches are always working the refs. The long-tenured coaches, through cajoling, yelling (Huggy), glaring (Coach K), pleading, bullying (Knight) or whining (Boeheim), earn a reputation and after years of success are able to "manipulate" the refs when things need to be adjusted. There were Jordan Rules and there are rookie rules. Coach Matt needs to learn when it is the right time to work the refs, or get the T, and that it will be effective. As some one said it's an art form. Example A, 1987 Midwest Regional in Cincy--IU is struggling, calls are not in IU's favor, Knight hammers the courtside phone, calls magically start going IU's way vs LSU. Game, set, National Title.
Bandwagon fans are those that stop watching or caring about their team when they struggle. I am definitely not a bandwagon fan, as I continue to watch, and am extremely frustrated/annoyed to see my team suck so badly ;).
Quote from: valpotx on February 05, 2018, 05:37:43 PMBandwagon fans are those that stop watching or caring about their team when they struggle.
By this definition I jumped off the Dorrow bandwagon years ago and even their glimmers of slight progress give me no inclination to ever return. As for Lottich and this team and their futures, I am still fully onboard for the long haul. That said, Matt still has a LOT to learn.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 05, 2018, 10:00:55 AMIt is a coaching art to "work the refs" for calls and longtime coaches like Ben Jacobson or Barry Hinson can get the benefit of the doubt and have some pull, particularly at home. There were a TON of "hometown" calls on Saturday. The refs tried to make a few makeup calls but the damage was done when they put our bigs in foul trouble in the 2nd half with ticky-tac BS foul calls. Jay and Smits couldn't be aggressive on the boards.
It's actually a technique---more so than just B8tching all the time, vet coaches like Hinson usually just explain their view on a call to a ref--calmly and with some logic> A lot of calls by refs are 50-50 ones which could be called either way, I suspect so if a ref feels that he has leaned too much from being fair he might subconsciously try to even things up by calling a 50-50 situation the opposite way next time--that's just my theory
dawg, it's also finding a point of emphasis for that ref to call the foul. If a moving pick isn't being a called, a discussion with the ref about moving picks may lead to a call later. It's, shall we say, getting that ref to be inclined to find the infraction.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 06, 2018, 09:50:12 AMdawg, it's also finding a point of emphasis for that ref to call the foul. If a moving pick isn't being a called, a discussion with the ref about moving picks may lead to a call later. It's, shall we say, getting that ref to be inclined to find the infraction.
Speaking of moving picks, that must be a point of emphasis this year--seems like they have called a bunch. Maybe because lots of teams are using that high screen offense all the time
It will be interesting to see how Coach Lottich conducts himself towards the refs this season. Will his philosophy change, and if any, will it change only slightly towards the refs?
Quote from: bbtds on August 18, 2018, 01:57:17 PM
It will be interesting to see how Coach Lottich conducts himself towards the refs this season. Will his philosophy change, and if any, will it change only slightly towards the refs?
This is a interesting question. That was one of the biggest topics of conversation about last season. As much as our UNI friend gets annoyed by the suggestion but the officiating was different from the HL's officiating. Let me be very clear. The reason we were losing games last season was not because of the refs, but they certainly impacted a few of our games (the SIU away game comes to mind). I'm hoping our guys can adjust to the way the MVC refs officiate and I'm hoping we can get a little more respect from the refs.
It may have been the refs, but probably also could have partially been Kavion Pippen hitting 9 of 11 shots ;)