Turning the page to the 2018-19 season.
If the MAAC's broadcast schedule is any future indication about the MVC broadcast schedule, then we're going to need to buy a subscription for 4 months out of the year to ESPN+...
https://twitter.com/MAACCommish/status/984883304997556224
They have to make money somehow. It is not a surprise that it eventually went this direction, with all of their layoffs.
I just looked at the watch.espn site... er uh.... nada...clicked on the espn+ logo... and there everything lives... with a 30+ day free trial offer...
As a cord cutter, ESPN+ will work out nicely for me. I should actually be able to watch the games next season. Kind of sucks for everyone already paying for cable or satellite though. :-\
Quote from: swiftmutiny on April 15, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
As a cord cutter, ESPN+ will work out nicely for me. I should actually be able to watch the games next season. Kind of sucks for everyone already paying for cable or satellite though. :-\
I've been thinking about cutting the cord for a while and this might push me in that direction if the ESPN+ content isn't included with my cable subscription. I might just move to Sling or YouTube TV with this ESPN+ plus thing for 4 months.
Some scheduling news:
Indiana State will play @TCU
Thinking about this ESPN+ stuff, maybe it will convince folks to come out to the games instead of paying to watch them. Maybe it'll have a positive effect on attendance.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 15, 2018, 02:00:10 PM
Thinking about this ESPN+ stuff, maybe it will convince folks to come out to the games instead of paying to watch them. Maybe it'll have a positive effect on attendance.
It could also have a negative affect for alums that don't live in the area. Maybe they'll be less likely to keep up with the team. A lot of alumni feel that connection to the University through the basketball team.
Good for Drake. Maybe they will be okay after all.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/985583237832544257
Some (potential) MVC transfer news.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/985646708947234816
Would be a great get for either the Ramblers or the Redbirds Led CSU in scoring last year.
Interesting to hear about all these great transfers going to other schools. Would be nice to hear that some grad transfers are coming to Valpo to fill in some senior leadership roles.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 15, 2018, 02:13:22 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 15, 2018, 02:00:10 PMThinking about this ESPN+ stuff, maybe it will convince folks to come out to the games instead of paying to watch them. Maybe it'll have a positive effect on attendance.
It could also have a negative affect for alums that don't live in the area. Maybe they'll be less likely to keep up with the team. A lot of alumni feel that connection to the University through the basketball team.
Here's a possible solution that I hope the MVC will try to broker: Increase the number of games on regional channels.
Drake picks up Iowa Grad transfer Brady Ellingson. Averaged 2.8PPG and 37% from 3 last year as he battled a concussion. The year before he averaged 4.7 ppg on 47% from 3. Looks like a great get for the Bulldogs.
Hey good for them. We better get someone who scored more then one or two buckets a game.
In case that was sarcasm, for comparison's sake, I'll just leave these here:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3147614/joe-burton
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3911894/bakari-evelyn
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3913218/ryan-fazekas
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 16, 2018, 08:11:09 PM
In case that was sarcasm, for comparison's sake, I'll just leave these here:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3147614/joe-burton
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3911894/bakari-evelyn
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3913218/ryan-fazekas
All talented players. Unfortunately Joe didn't work out. When they committed all saw the future availability of playing time and opportunity to play significant roles.
Let's hope we can land some talented immediately eligible transfers or another stud Red-shirt guy.
How many of those guys that came to valpo were grad transfers?
In fairness, none; however, I'm sure Drake will see more than 3-5ppg from him. I'm sure we can agree on that.
Another MVC Transfer nugget:
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/986001845096275970
Maybe, hard for me to quantify that a "great get". Time will tell, no biggie.
https://twitter.com/Standard_Sports/status/986259459998650370
In keeping with McCarty's promise to schedule tougher games at Evansville the Aces will be traveling to Champaign to take on the Illini sometime this year according to Jon Rothstein
Porter Moser re-ups.
Good!!
He might be the most Power-5 ready coach I have seen recently. Even if the MVC loses him eventually, every year is a help. Moser's presence nails down the Loyola interest in Chicago for a few years.
I'm not sure where everyone thought he was going. There haven't been any "bigger" jobs open for a few weeks now, so it's been pretty clear he was staying. I have no illusions that this is forever, but I'm sure the deal will still have a hefty buyout after next year which will help ward off all but the elite-level P5 openings. Prediction: Moser's in Rogers Park for at least two more seasons.
Quote from: JD24 on April 25, 2018, 05:25:20 PM
Porter Moser re-ups.
I'd like to know how much he's making. He was making $420k last season. They didn't disclose the contract details.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2018, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: JD24 on April 25, 2018, 05:25:20 PM
Porter Moser re-ups.
I'd like to know how much he's making. He was making $420k last season. They didn't disclose the contract details.
How about you announcing your salary details to everyone on here. We are very curious.
See. It's not always the easiest thing to discuss your personal salary.
I don't blame anyone who doesn't work for an institution that pays it's salaries through government monies not wanting to discuss their salary.
Quote from: bbtds on April 27, 2018, 06:31:08 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2018, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: JD24 on April 25, 2018, 05:25:20 PM
Porter Moser re-ups.
I'd like to know how much he's making. He was making $420k last season. They didn't disclose the contract details.
How about you announcing your salary details to everyone on here. We are very curious.
See. It's not always the easiest thing to discuss your personal salary.
I don't blame anyone who doesn't work for an institution that pays it's salaries through government monies not wanting to discuss their salary.
VU2014 I'd also be curious. We easily offend bbtds delicate sensibilities 😉
Quote from: bbtds on April 27, 2018, 06:31:08 AMSee. It's not always the easiest thing to discuss your personal salary.
I don't blame anyone who doesn't work for an institution that pays it's salaries through government monies not wanting to discuss their salary.
On this board we care nothing about your hand size or any of the other Republican debate measurements. But---- if you could provide us with your and Trumps recent tax returns it would be very helpful. OK you can redact your name and address but not your Adjusted Gross Income.
I'm mainly interested in Moser's salary because it may set a bench mark for coaching salaries in the conference. I believe we may eventually find out because of public tax filings and it may just leak regardless.
Let's let time be the judge on the coaching ability and consistent recruiting ability of Porter Moser. One hot season does not make a coach's career. A few years ago I believe there were people calling for his departure.
Quote from: justducky on April 27, 2018, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: bbtds on April 27, 2018, 06:31:08 AMSee. It's not always the easiest thing to discuss your personal salary.
I don't blame anyone who doesn't work for an institution that pays it's salaries through government monies not wanting to discuss their salary.
On this board we care nothing about your hand size or any of the other Republican debate measurements. But---- if you could provide us with your and Trumps recent tax returns it would be very helpful. OK you can redact your name and address but not your Adjusted Gross Income.
My Adjusted Gross Income has very little to do with the salary that actually goes into my bank account. Too many travel expenses.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 27, 2018, 10:05:21 AM
I'm mainly interested in Moser's salary because it may set a bench mark for coaching salaries in the conference. I believe we may eventually find out because of public tax filings and it may just leak regardless.
I have little doubt that it will be exposed much like the antics in Moscow of a businessman soon-to-be politician with "pros."
Let's keep on topic. Please and thank you.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/991059626325151749
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/991060227922460673
YES! There's that Valpo culture! We're in good hands going forward especially if Freeman-Liberty and Sackey pick up on these habits. Would love to hear what Smits and Sorolla (two men in perhaps the most desperate need of offseason workouts) are doing.
I've heard Sackey is absolute work horse. His twitter bio is
"Suffer to Gain". Some true words. Not sure how much stock we can put in a twitter bio but I've heard great things about his work ethic. JFL also seems to be a basketball junkie.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 30, 2018, 04:35:22 PM
Would love to hear what Smits and Sorolla (two men in perhaps the most desperate need of offseason workouts) are doing.
I hope these 2 gentleman hit the training table hard. Sorolla needs to learn to play with some aggression in his game. Hopefully both have great summers, because we need them two. Smits needs to work on that defense, so Coach can trust him late in close games. Smits offensive game was really coming into his own towards the end of the season.
Missouri State is really filling out their class well. Should be very talented. Need to get busy or we may be in for another tough year.
Per a post on MVCFans Loyola bought out of their previous tournament and will now play in the Suncoast Classic against Richmond and one of Boston College or Wyoming. That's a big improvement over what they were in
I was just looking at Blogging the Bracket and I can't help but wonder if maybe I've found our third opponent from last year's Sweet 16: Nevada. It shows that they're set to play a neutral site game in LA. Could that be us? Or are we going to try to get them to come to the ARC as part of their game @Loyola? Either way it'd be a great get. I also wonder if we're targeting Clemson since we'll be in South Carolina anyway.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 01, 2018, 03:19:48 PM
Per a post on MVCFans Loyola bought out of their previous tournament and will now play in the Suncoast Classic against Richmond and one of Boston College or Wyoming. That's a big improvement over what they were in
Would we buy out a tournament slot?
Certainly not the one we're in this year.
My point was do we even hsve the $$$$$?
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:06 PM
My point was do we even hsve the $$$$$?
I'm pretty sure there is plenty of money in the men's basketball budget. In the past we have bought in to post season tourneys. If it made economic sense Mark would go for it.
More from MVCFANS: Evansville will be playing @Xavier this year and also will be hosting Murray State. Coach McCarty was serious about scheduling better. Good for the Aces and their fans. I'm very happy for them!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
More from MVCFANS: Evansville will be playing @Xavier this year and also will be hosting Murray State. Coach McCarty was serious about scheduling better. Good for the Aces and their fans. I'm very happy for them!
Question: Scheduling UP is good. But scheduling blow out losses is bad, right ? (Refer to Oakland's insane OOC sacrificial buy games.) Is McCarty's scheduling really a positive, or might it come back to bite. RPI guys, what do you think?
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 03, 2018, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
More from MVCFANS: Evansville will be playing @Xavier this year and also will be hosting Murray State. Coach McCarty was serious about scheduling better. Good for the Aces and their fans. I'm very happy for them!
Question: Scheduling UP is good. But scheduling blow out losses is bad, right ? (Refer to Oakland's insane OOC sacrificial buy games.) Is McCarty's scheduling really a positive, or might it come back to bite. RPI guys, what do you think?
It'll help their RPI, but not ours. We want our conference opponents to have a decent OOC W/L percentage. Evansville isn't a top 50 calibar team next year, so them scheduling harder is not good for the conference.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 03, 2018, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
More from MVCFANS: Evansville will be playing @Xavier this year and also will be hosting Murray State. Coach McCarty was serious about scheduling better. Good for the Aces and their fans. I'm very happy for them!
Question: Scheduling UP is good. But scheduling blow out losses is bad, right ? (Refer to Oakland's insane OOC sacrificial buy games.) Is McCarty's scheduling really a positive, or might it come back to bite. RPI guys, what do you think?
Scheduling unwinnable games in droves is simply silly. Though we have quite a few tough games on the schedule so far with our unproven squad, so I'm not casting stones here.
I'm not entirely convinced the dip in attendance numbers (home) is as much to do with our opponents as it has to do with A) off peak hours/days and B) general lack of student engagement trending this way over time.
I still need convincing that the current NCAA wants any mid-major conference to get at large bids. So I say schedule D-1 teams at the ARC on convenient days/times to buoy the attendance and engagement.
Thanks guys. I kinda thought that was the case. Scheduling as a mid-major is not an art, it is a science (with a great deal of divine guidance playing a part).
I wouldn't even call it a science, because the NCAA tournament committee won't even follow the criteria they set for themselves to pick at-large teams. They keep changing the criteria. Now we have this Quadrant system that significantly disadvantages the mid-majors even more then before because mids don't have access to many quadrant 1 & 2 games. It's almost impossible to get a Q1 or Q2 team to play at your building. It really is a joke.
DJ Wilkins (Merrillville) committed to Drake
https://twitter.com/SteveHanlon3/status/992248969420881921
Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 04, 2018, 10:00:57 AM
I wouldn't even call it a science, because the NCAA tournament committee won't even follow the criteria they set for themselves to pick at-large teams. They keep changing the criteria. Now we have this Quadrant system that significantly disadvantages the mid-majors even more then before because mids don't have access to many quadrant 1 & 2 games. It's almost impossible to get a Q1 or Q2 team to play at your building. It really is a joke.
I don't know if I'd say the quadrant system disadvantages the mid-majors
more than the "top 50 wins" that they always used as qualifiers before, but it definitely doesn't benefit them any more like it was sold as going to do. I think the "most fair" model if the goal really is to pick the best at-large teams, regardless of schedule and league is to move to an analytical model, though Loyola again would have been borderline (and probably on the wrong side of the bubble based on the cutoff line) to get in that model too had they not won the MVC tourney based on their pre-tourney rating.
Teams that would have gotten in under a model using Kenpom:
Saint Mary's (28)
Penn State (29)
Notre Dame (31)
Louisville (33)
Baylor (34)
USC (40)
Maryland (46)
Teams that wouldn't have gotten in under a model using Kenpom:
Oklahoma (47)
UCLA (48)
Rhode Island (49)
Alabama (51)
Syracuse (54)
Providence (63)
St. Bonaventure (69)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 04, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.
Those schools were mentioned from the start as landing places. This is just Rothstein throwing crap against a wall to reignite clicks in a topic that hasn't had news in a week. He also mentioned Indiana - who doesn't have an open ride.
He took a visit to Oklahoma and it went poorly. He took a visit to UNI and it went so well he extended by by two days just to hang out with people more. As proof of this he was seen at a restaurant with players 2 days after his official visit. We signed one of his best friends from growing up in Shandon Goldman. He wants to go somewhere he feels welcomed.
Until he shows up in either one of those campuses for an official visit there's no reason to believe anything other than he's UNI bound based in everything I've been told. I was given a % from a connected source that would put him at a high A at landing at UNI.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hope it works out.
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 04, 2018, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 04, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.
Those schools were mentioned from the start as landing places. This is just Rothstein throwing crap against a wall to reignite clicks in a topic that hasn't had news in a week. He also mentioned Indiana - who doesn't have an open ride.
He took a visit to Oklahoma and it went poorly. He took a visit to UNI and it went so well he extended by by two days just to hang out with people more. As proof of this he was seen at a restaurant with players 2 days after his official visit. We signed one of his best friends from growing up in Shandon Goldman. He wants to go somewhere he feels welcomed.
Until he shows up in either one of those campuses for an official visit there's no reason to believe anything other than he's UNI bound based in everything I've been told. I was given a % from a connected source that would put him at a high A at landing at UNI.
Good luck! I feel you will most likely need it.
According to unconfirmed reports from Evansville's beat writer posted by a fan on MVCFans, Evansville will also be doing H and H series with Ball State and Miami(OH) and has a buy game with Kentucky planned in the future (not this year ) So great to see them building a serious legitimate respectable nonconference schedule.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2018, 11:43:15 AM
According to unconfirmed reports from Evansville's beat writer posted by a fan on MVCFans, Evansville will also be doing H and H series with Ball State and Miami(OH) and has a buy game with Kentucky planned in the future (not this year ) So great to see them building a serious legitimate respectable nonconference schedule.
I'm hoping Ball State continues it's annual game with Valpo. I enjoyed the series and I'd really like to beat "natty light bro" Tayler Persons next season. Heck of a player of player but he rubs me the wrong way. We need payback at our place.
I don't like these comments on scheduling going forward from coach Dan Muller of Illinois State. I was hoping we could count on him alongside Jacobsen at UNI and hopefully us as standard bearers for scheduling in the MVC,
http://www.videtteonline.com/sports/muller-turns-focus-to-summer-next-season/article_18817ec4-26f4-11e8-b401-0f67c4c6a61c.html
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 06, 2018, 11:47:09 PM
I don't like these comments on scheduling going forward from coach Dan Muller of Illinois State. I was hoping we could count on him alongside Jacobsen at UNI and hopefully us as standard bearers for scheduling in the MVC,
http://www.videtteonline.com/sports/muller-turns-focus-to-summer-next-season/article_18817ec4-26f4-11e8-b401-0f67c4c6a61c.html
I think Muller was just trying to show frustration with the whole NCAA process of scheduling and the fact that the selection committee says one thing but in the end it doesn't help much. He's been there and done that and been shafted by the committee.
I find it interesting that there is a newspaper out there that uses the name Vidette.
Quote from: bbtds on May 07, 2018, 11:07:59 AM
I think Muller was just trying to show frustration with the whole NCAA process of scheduling and the fact that the selection committee says one thing but in the end it doesn't help much. He's been there and done that and been shafted by the committee.
I find it interesting that there is a newspaper out there that uses the name Vidette.
The year they were snubbed, his OOC SOS was 173, and Illinois State's only quality win the entire year was at home against Wichita State. This year he scheduled harder (OOC SOS was 22), but their only quality win was a South Carolina team that was 7-11 in the SEC and barely over .500 overall, and they lost at home to Charleston Southern. I can understand him being frustrated because teams don't want to come to Normal for a game, but I'm a little skeptical that he's somehow angry about not getting at-large consideration this year when I don't really see a reason why they should have. They did play good teams last year, but they still need to win some of those games for them to help.
And yet it's not even an issue of teams not willing to come to Normal. Their home slate now includes BYU SDSU FGCU and Mississippi as well as Murray State and UIC on the road. They sweep through those and show well in the tournament that should be good for at large consideration. OOC SOS is something I wish we would see used against the P5/BE/AAC more. Some teams numbers are criminally terrible. Here's a few of my favorites:
Cincinnati 294
Michigan State 303
Michigan 301
Texas Tech 309
West Virginia 299
Houston 254
Florida State 330
Creighton 292
Virginia Tech 344
Miami(FL) 284
Kansas State 324
NC State 342
And there were several other sub 150 and sub 200 teams I could have added to this list but I think these 12 really illustrate the point well enough. Talk about gaming the system. My goodness. Play a bunch of crappy teams in the non con and count on the power of our conferences to put us on the right side of the bubble meanwhile deny the good mids games against us to keep them on the wrong side of the bubble. I think at large teams especially from powerful conferences need to be held to higher scheduling standards.
Rules for at large teams:
20 wins minimum
12 losses maximum
Top 60 RPI I'd even be willing to go higher say top 50 or so.
Over 500 conference record Not exactly 500 OVER
Absolutely no teams with a NCSOS lower than a predefined range (Say 250? I mean come on get out of the bottom 100 at least though I think even 150 or 200 could be fair numbers but I'd be willing to test it out at 250 first). will be considered for an at large NO EXCEPTIONS
.
Loyola just picked up a commitment from a SG from Queens. He's said to be a better version of Cameron Satterwhite.
Drake has pledged themselves to the Las Vegas Classic with Washington State New Mexico State and San Diego They will play nonbracketed games against at least one of Northern Colorado Northern Alabama Cal St-Northridge and SIU-Edwardsville. Not great but not bad for where the program is likely at right now.
Here's a good resource for keeping up with tournaments\MTEs
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/11/27/16671208/2018-19-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
QuoteI wouldn't even call it a science, because the NCAA tournament committee won't even follow the criteria they set for themselves to pick at-large teams.
This... they adhere to this when it benefits P5/Big East teams and put it aside when it would benefit a midmajor. It's a constant shifting of goal posts. The battle needs to be won on the PR/public pressure front moving forward. Loyola's run coupled with historic first-round blowout wins by 13 and 16 seeds has obliterated the "midmajors can't compete or don't deserve it" talking point forever, if ALL non-P5s (fans, players, coaches and ADs alike) pick up the mantle and speak loudly and unrelentingly with one voice.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 07, 2018, 03:21:54 PM
Rules for at large teams:
20 wins minimum
12 losses maximum
Top 60 RPI I'd even be willing to go higher say top 50 or so.
Over 500 conference record Not exactly 500 OVER
Absolutely no teams with a NCSOS lower than a predefined range (Say 250? I mean come on get out of the bottom 100 at least though I think even 150 or 200 could be fair numbers but I'd be willing to test it out at 250 first). will be considered for an at large NO EXCEPTIONS.
Those rules would free up several spots for non-P6 teams. I'd suggest even a few more things to make NCAA basketball more fair for the mid and low-majors:
- Limit the number of total bids to 4 per conference.
- Split the NCAA tourney money evenly between the 68 entrants (and their conferences); no additional shares for tournament wins as this unfairly benefits the P6 schools.
I'm tired of seeing 75% of the tourney payouts going to the P6 schools that don't really need the money. The NCAA could learn a thing or two from our Federal Government and design a system where the money is taken from the P6 schools and given to the mid and low-major teams to help them improve their programs and facilities.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 07, 2018, 03:21:54 PM
And yet it's not even an issue of teams not willing to come to Normal. Their home slate now includes BYU SDSU FGCU and Mississippi as well as Murray State and UIC on the road. They sweep through those and show well in the tournament that should be good for at large consideration. OOC SOS is something I wish we would see used against the P5/BE/AAC more. Some teams numbers are criminally terrible. Here's a few of my favorites:
Cincinnati 294, 87 (Buffalo, Xavier, Florida, Mississippi State, UCLA)
Michigan State 303, 62 (Duke, DePaul, UConn, North Carolina, Notre Dame)
Michigan 301, 18 (LSU, VCU, North Carolina, UCLA, Texas)
Texas Tech 309, 19 (Boston College, Northwestern, Seton Hall, Nevada, South Carolina)
West Virginia 299, 16 (Texas A&M, Missouri, Virginia, Pittsburgh, Kentucky)
Houston 254, 81 (Wake Forest, Arkansas, LSU, Providence)
Florida State 330, 36 (Florida, Oklahoma State, Rutgers)
Creighton 292, 33 (Northwestern, UCLA, Baylor, Gonzaga, Nebraska)
Virginia Tech 344, 53 (Washington, Iowa, Mississippi, Kentucky)
Miami(FL) 284, 52 (Minnesota, New Mexico State, Middle Tennessee State)
Kansas State 324, 34 (Arizona State, Vanderbilt, Washington State, Georgia)
NC State 342, 55 (Arizona, Tennessee, Penn State)
The reason their non-conference SOS is so low, is because of their buy games against teams in the 300s. The reason why the overall strength of the NCSOS doesn't matter is because the top level teams they play are better than Illinois State's best teams next year for the most part, and then they go and play a major conference schedule. The Redbirds essentially have to hope that some, if not all of those teams are going to be tourney level teams next season, which unfortunately is more the exception than the rule with the majority of those programs. I have added the list of the top teams the schools above played last year in the non-conference, and their overall SOS ranking.
Setting these higher standards for major conferences to clear is pretty much the fastest way for them to take their balls and leave. The money the TV rights pay out are that way because of the major programs, which is why the tourney shares are as big as they are. Those conferences may not need it, but they are the ones generating the majority of the interest (and I say this knowing Butler doesn't generate TV interest) after the first weekend. Telling them they can't have weak NCSOS is also the fastest way for the bottom 50 programs to dissolve, as the majority of their entire athletic department's funding is from playing buy games against the programs above.
Again, the most "fair" way (there isn't a true fair way, as major programs are going to have better players the majority of the time), is using a pure analytical approach. Sure, teams can try and game the system there too, but it's a lot harder than with the RPI and scheduling, as a win in which they run up the score is also somewhat hurt by the drop their opponent's ranking takes after that game.
Quote from: Eddie CabotThose rules would free up several spots for non-P6 teams. I'd suggest even a few more things to make NCAA basketball more fair for the mid and low-majors: - Limit the number of total bids to 4 per conference. - Split the NCAA tourney money evenly between the 68 entrants (and their conferences); no additional shares for tournament wins as this unfairly benefits the P6 schools.I'm tired of seeing 75% of the tourney payouts going to the P6 schools that don't really need the money. The NCAA could learn a thing or two from our Federal Government and design a system where the money is taken from the P6 schools and given to the mid and low-major teams to help them improve their programs and facilities.
I'd like to see the NCAA reflect more of China's government.
I think a good start would be forcing teams to be at least have .500 conference records to receive at-large bids. That would create a sensible bare minimum standard. Obviously the P6 would fight tooth and nail because they want to get their mid-tier conference teams in tourney.
At-Large that would be eliminated from the 2018 Tourney:
-Alabama (8-10)
-Arizona State (8-10)
-Oklahoma (8-10)
-Syracuse (8-10)
-Texas (8-10)
It would be good for the sport and would put a greater emphasis on the importance on Conference play, which would be make TV networks happy.
Quote from: may know on May 08, 2018, 09:31:58 AM
Quote from: Eddie CabotThose rules would free up several spots for non-P6 teams. I'd suggest even a few more things to make NCAA basketball more fair for the mid and low-majors: - Limit the number of total bids to 4 per conference. - Split the NCAA tourney money evenly between the 68 entrants (and their conferences); no additional shares for tournament wins as this unfairly benefits the P6 schools.I'm tired of seeing 75% of the tourney payouts going to the P6 schools that don't really need the money. The NCAA could learn a thing or two from our Federal Government and design a system where the money is taken from the P6 schools and given to the mid and low-major teams to help them improve their programs and facilities.
I'd like to see the NCAA reflect more of China's government.
h-e-double hockey sticks for you, comrade.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 08, 2018, 09:57:45 AM
I think a good start would be forcing teams to be at least have .500 conference records to receive at-large bids. That would create a sensible bare minimum standard. Obviously the P6 would fight tooth and nail because they want to get their mid-tier conference teams in tourney.
At-Large that would be eliminated from the 2018 Tourney:
-Alabama (8-10)/Mississippi State (9-9)
-Arizona State (8-10)/ There were 5 teams in the Pac 12 with above .500 records that didn't get in
-Oklahoma (8-10)/ Big 12 couldn't replace these, but it's by far the toughest basketball conference
-Syracuse (8-10)/ Louisville (9-9)
-Texas (8-10)
It would be good for the sport and would put a greater emphasis on the importance on Conference play, which would be make TV networks happy.
A lot of people on the TV networks have been advocating for this kind of change as well, so it's a reasonable bar to put up, but I think the challenge there is that the major conferences, in most of these cases could simply replace one school with another as I've shown above. That doesn't necessarily make for a better tournament, as most of the schools that are listed as "on the bubble" are high major programs, as the 1 and 2 seeds in the NIT this year that could have qualified under your qualifications above were USC, Louisville, Saint Mary's, Marquette and Utah.
Anyone who follows college sports knows that P-5 conferences run the NCAA. The last thing they're concerned about relative to at-large bids is being fair to all concerned. The only way to significantly elevate mid major presence in the NCAA Tournament is to add another round. That said, the powers-that-be will never approve it because it would benefit the mid major world disproportionately over P-5's.
Quote from: wh on May 08, 2018, 12:29:55 PM
Anyone who follows college sports knows that P-5 conferences run the NCAA. The last thing they're concerned about relative to at-large bids is being fair to all concerned. The only way to significantly elevate mid major presence in the NCAA Tournament is to add another round. That said, the powers-that-be will never approve it because it would benefit the mid major world disproportionately over P-5's.
Completely agree. I'd rather focus our attention at good competition OOC so we are ready for conference games. We simply should not be concerned with the "haves" giving us "have nots" a fair shot. It's a fools errand...
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 08, 2018, 11:48:55 AM
A lot of people on the TV networks have been advocating for this kind of change as well, so it's a reasonable bar to put up, but I think the challenge there is that the major conferences, in most of these cases could simply replace one school with another as I've shown above. That doesn't necessarily make for a better tournament, as most of the schools that are listed as "on the bubble" are high major programs, as the 1 and 2 seeds in the NIT this year that could have qualified under your qualifications above were USC, Louisville, Saint Mary's, Marquette and Utah.
Mid-Majors seem to be increasingly on the First 4 out bubble in recent years and lose out to mediocre P5 teams. Valpo itself got screwed in the first 4 out in the 15-16 season.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 08, 2018, 02:09:04 PMValpo itself got screwed in the first 4 out in the 15-16 season.
Valpo did get screwed ... left out despite being 26-6 on Selection Sunday with wins over Oregon State and Rhode Island. I don't know what more they could have done. If that team didn't get in, it leaves me pretty pessimistic about ever getting an at-large unless the process is changed.
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 08, 2018, 04:02:57 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 08, 2018, 02:09:04 PMValpo itself got screwed in the first 4 out in the 15-16 season.
Valpo did get screwed ... left out despite being 26-6 on Selection Sunday with wins over Oregon State and Rhode Island. I don't know what more they could have done. If that team didn't get in, it leaves me pretty pessimistic about ever getting an at-large unless the process is changed.
You should be pessimistic. The committee's about the number of quality wins that teams have, and mid-majors are always going to lag in that department because of scheduling issues. Schools that don't get many shots (like a Valpo) basically have to win all their games to get consideration. In the case of Valpo, had they won the Oregon game (beating a Rhode Island team that didn't make the NCAA or NIT isn't a quality win) and avoided the home loss to Wright State, I think they get in. As it were, the last 4 teams in that year (Tulsa, Vanderbilt, Michigan and Wichita State) all had better wins than Valpo's over Oregon State, and more of them.
Tulsa had a political connection with the selection chair that got them in. Something like 1-4 brackets on BracketMatrix had them in - a record since the site started.
Monmouth had wins over Notre Dame, UCLA, USC, Georgetown, & Rutgers and was left out for Tulsa.
Quote from: may know on May 08, 2018, 11:32:33 PM
Tulsa had a political connection with the selection chair that got them in. Something like 1-4 brackets on BracketMatrix had them in - a record since the site started.
Monmouth had wins over Notre Dame, UCLA, USC, Georgetown, & Rutgers and was left out for Tulsa.
Georgetown, Rutgers and UCLA didn't make the tournament or NIT that year, so while they were big name wins, they aren't necessarily wins that would get a team in the tournament. They also lost to Canisius, Army and Manhattan, which are all 230+ kenpom level teams. I actually think Valpo's resume was better than Monmouth's that year because their worst loss was a home loss to Wright State, which at least was a top 150ish team. They blew out teams at a similar level to Army, Canisius and Manhattan all year.
Tulsa's resume included wins over Wichita State, Temple, Cincinnati, UConn and Houston, all of which either made the tournament (4) or the NIT. Their worst loss was to Oral Roberts at home, which is really bad as Oral Roberts was around 175th on kenpom, but they didn't lose another game to another 100+ level team on kenpom all year.
Yarbrough is an all-conference caliber player.
https://twitter.com/pjstarsports/status/994343827988086784
Key word: "again"
Quote from: VU2014 on May 09, 2018, 05:54:43 PM
Yarbrough is an all-conference caliber player.
https://twitter.com/pjstarsports/status/994343827988086784
Wow, wow, wow!
Marco's Pizza in Pekin is closing! Will wonders never end.....................(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/excited-man-17140738.jpg)
oh yeah, Yarbrough got arrested again...........yawn..........
(http://www.digireado.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Yawning-Man.jpg)
as long as he is scoring 16-some a game Muller don't care that much.
Evansville's nonconference schedule is out Just one game missing from it. A big improvement over their previous scheduling practices.
https://gopurpleaces.com/images/2018/5/9/18_nonconfmbb_web.jpg?width=1416&height=797&mode=crop
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 09, 2018, 07:05:52 PM
Evansville's nonconference schedule is out Just one game missing from it. A big improvement over their previous scheduling practices.
https://gopurpleaces.com/images/2018/5/9/18_nonconfmbb_web.jpg?width=1416&height=797&mode=crop
Playing BSU twice in non-con ... interesting.
Good article.
If Valparaiso ever went on a Sweet 16 type run, would we be able to pay a Head Coach in the $900,000 range like UNI and Loyola?
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/994347324624252928
http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20180509/power-conferences-well-above-valley-pay-grade
Somewhere Greg Kampe is frantically refreshing his twitter feed to see if Malik becomes available.
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 04, 2018, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 04, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.
Those schools were mentioned from the start as landing places. This is just Rothstein throwing crap against a wall to reignite clicks in a topic that hasn't had news in a week. He also mentioned Indiana - who doesn't have an open ride.
He took a visit to Oklahoma and it went poorly. He took a visit to UNI and it went so well he extended by by two days just to hang out with people more. As proof of this he was seen at a restaurant with players 2 days after his official visit. We signed one of his best friends from growing up in Shandon Goldman. He wants to go somewhere he feels welcomed.
Until he shows up in either one of those campuses for an official visit there's no reason to believe anything other than he's UNI bound based in everything I've been told. I was given a % from a connected source that would put him at a high A at landing at UNI.
Austin Reaves commits to Oklahoma
Sounds like that UNI visit must have went really poorly ;)
Steve Helm was a part of the school record breaking 4x400-meter relay team.
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/995872496904802309
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/996188422363545600
Old news. Posted about it yesterday! ;)
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 04, 2018, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 04, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.
Those schools were mentioned from the start as landing places. This is just Rothstein throwing crap against a wall to reignite clicks in a topic that hasn't had news in a week. He also mentioned Indiana - who doesn't have an open ride.
He took a visit to Oklahoma and it went poorly. He took a visit to UNI and it went so well he extended by by two days just to hang out with people more. As proof of this he was seen at a restaurant with players 2 days after his official visit. We signed one of his best friends from growing up in Shandon Goldman. He wants to go somewhere he feels welcomed.
Until he shows up in either one of those campuses for an official visit there's no reason to believe anything other than he's UNI bound based in everything I've been told. I was given a % from a connected source that would put him at a high A at landing at UNI.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Time to get a new source dude.
According to a twitter post I saw Stull is also considering Butler and Xavier. Is that still true? Also it appears that he is seeking a significant role and a chance to make the tournament. Can we provide both? It's hard to say but if Burton comes back and keeps his eligibility we might be close enough to entice Stull. We certainly have the role to offer.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 15, 2018, 06:49:20 PM
According to a twitter post I saw Stull is also considering Butler and Xavier. Is that still true? Also it appears that he is seeking a significant role and a chance to make the tournament. Can we provide both? It's hard to say but if Burton comes back and keeps his eligibility we might be close enough to entice Stull. We certainly have the role to offer.
Stull should go to MN and see what it's like to compete in the B1G. Would love to have him play at Valpo, but I say go for it and push yourself.
At this point a pro career in North America does not exist so what does he have to lose?
Sorry to rain on your parade but we enter this season middle of the MVC. Even if we get lucky and Burton is eligible Top 3 is a stretch goal.
It's a lot of what ifs but I would darn sure take Evelyn\Stull\Burton\Fazekas\Smits\Golder\McMillan\Freeman-Liberty\Sorolla\Bradford\Sackey against anybody in this conference. That looks pretty safely a top 3-4 team in the MVC if not more.
FieldGoodie05, so pessimistic. If a couple whistles & breaks go our way in a couple games we'd be finish mid pack in the conference. Not to mention if we don't lose Joe we'd have a chance to win even more of those close games. It's not all doom and gloom as frustrating as last season was.
He'd have a significant role here, which he likely wouldn't at Minnesota but I'm sure the MN coaches will say otherwise. He'd be more then just depth at Valpo. I won't predict we'll win the league next year but if he came to Valpo I'd like our chances to finish Top 5 team, with upside to finish higher.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 15, 2018, 07:02:56 PM
It's a lot of what ifs but I would darn sure take Evelyn\Stull\Burton\Fazekas\Smits\Golder\McMillan\Freeman-Liberty\Sorolla\Bradford\Sackey against anybody in this conference. That looks pretty safely a top 3-4 team in the MVC if not more.
Even with Fazekas as our only serviceable size @ Forward? To be clear, Mileek would need to improve by the biggest margin year-over-year that any Valpo player has done in recent memory.
I'm excited for this upcoming season if the aforementioned additions are eligible (Stull and Burton) but I'm not pre-season MVC Top 3 voting excited.
Again, would be ecstatic if that lineup dresssed for the brown and gold this fall....just not head in the clouds expectations for me.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 15, 2018, 07:18:13 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on May 15, 2018, 07:02:56 PMIt's a lot of what ifs but I would darn sure take Evelyn\Stull\Burton\Fazekas\Smits\Golder\McMillan\Freeman-Liberty\Sorolla\Bradford\Sackey against anybody in this conference. That looks pretty safely a top 3-4 team in the MVC if not more.
Even with Fazekas as our only serviceable size @ Forward? To be clear, Mileek would need to improve by the biggest margin year-over-year that any Valpo player has done in recent memory. I'm excited for this upcoming season if the aforementioned additions are eligible (Stull and Burton) but I'm not pre-season MVC Top 3 voting excited. Again, would be ecstatic if that lineup dresssed for the brown and gold this fall....just not head in the clouds expectations for me.
Name the teams you think finish ahead of that team. That's honestly as deep and talented on paper as anything Loyola and Illinois State are putting together. I count 7 or 8 players (even upwards of 9 or 10) that are capable of taking over a game offensively and carrying the team for stretches. If you're concerned by whether that team can defend well enough maybe there could be some concerns there but nobody is outscoring that team. Nobody.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 15, 2018, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 15, 2018, 06:49:20 PM
According to a twitter post I saw Stull is also considering Butler and Xavier. Is that still true? Also it appears that he is seeking a significant role and a chance to make the tournament. Can we provide both? It's hard to say but if Burton comes back and keeps his eligibility we might be close enough to entice Stull. We certainly have the role to offer.
Stull should go to MN and see what it's like to compete in the B1G. Would love to have him play at Valpo, but I say go for it and push yourself.
At this point a pro career in North America does not exist so what does he have to lose?
Sorry to rain on your parade but we enter this season middle of the MVC. Even if we get lucky and Burton is eligible Top 3 is a stretch goal.
Alec Peters was was in a similar situation 2 years ago when he was considering whether to stay at Valpo or move up. The difference is Alec knew he could start for almost any program he chose. Even then, he decided to stay, had an outstanding senior season, and got drafted in the 2nd round. A great Cinderella story.
Stull is no Alec, or anywhere close. In fact, Tevonn Walker had better numbers than Stull in a much tougher league, and is a far better defender. Is anyone under the illusion that Tevonn would be better off "moving up" if he were in Stull's shoes?
Stull is being way over hyped. He needs to join the Crusaders and set his sights on helping to return a highly respected mid major to glory by winning a championship in a highly respected league. If he truly has NBA potential, NBA scouts from all over the league will show up at the ARC in droves, just like they did 2 years ago.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 15, 2018, 03:53:52 PM
Steve Helm was a part of the school record breaking 4x400-meter relay team.
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/995872496904802309
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/996188422363545600
Facial expressions from R-L:
Expressionless, Smile, Grin and:
Multiple Choice -
a. Intense
b. Fatigued
c. Irritated
d. Threatening
;)
Quote from: a3uge on May 15, 2018, 04:10:07 PM
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 04, 2018, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 04, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.
Those schools were mentioned from the start as landing places. This is just Rothstein throwing crap against a wall to reignite clicks in a topic that hasn't had news in a week. He also mentioned Indiana - who doesn't have an open ride.
He took a visit to Oklahoma and it went poorly. He took a visit to UNI and it went so well he extended by by two days just to hang out with people more. As proof of this he was seen at a restaurant with players 2 days after his official visit. We signed one of his best friends from growing up in Shandon Goldman. He wants to go somewhere he feels welcomed.
Until he shows up in either one of those campuses for an official visit there's no reason to believe anything other than he's UNI bound based in everything I've been told. I was given a % from a connected source that would put him at a high A at landing at UNI.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Time to get a new source dude.
Must of had a bad restaurant experience. Wow! Bad eggs?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 15, 2018, 07:02:56 PM
It's a lot of what ifs but I would darn sure take Evelyn\Stull\Burton\Fazekas\Smits\Golder\McMillan\Freeman-Liberty\Sorolla\Bradford\Sackey against anybody in this conference. That looks pretty safely a top 3-4 team in the MVC if not more.
Even without Stull, that could be the deepest and most talented group Valpo has seen for a while. Also, Oren hinted that more recruiting news could be coming soon!
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 16, 2018, 08:35:45 AMAlso, Oren hinted that more recruiting news could be coming soon!
(http://www.live-adventurously.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/anticipation.jpg)
Quote from: wh on May 15, 2018, 08:30:16 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 15, 2018, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 15, 2018, 06:49:20 PM
According to a twitter post I saw Stull is also considering Butler and Xavier. Is that still true? Also it appears that he is seeking a significant role and a chance to make the tournament. Can we provide both? It's hard to say but if Burton comes back and keeps his eligibility we might be close enough to entice Stull. We certainly have the role to offer.
Stull should go to MN and see what it's like to compete in the B1G. Would love to have him play at Valpo, but I say go for it and push yourself.
At this point a pro career in North America does not exist so what does he have to lose?
Sorry to rain on your parade but we enter this season middle of the MVC. Even if we get lucky and Burton is eligible Top 3 is a stretch goal.
Alec Peters was was in a similar situation 2 years ago when he was considering whether to stay at Valpo or move up. The difference is Alec knew he could start for almost any program he chose. Even then, he decided to stay, had an outstanding senior season, and got drafted in the 2nd round. A great Cinderella story.
Stull is no Alec, or anywhere close. In fact, Tevonn Walker had better numbers than Stull in a much tougher league, and is a far better defender. Is anyone under the illusion that Tevonn would be better off "moving up" if he were in Stull's shoes?
Stull is being way over hyped. He needs to join the Crusaders and set his sights on helping to return a highly respected mid major to glory by winning a championship in a highly respected league. If he truly has NBA potential, NBA scouts from all over the league will show up at the ARC in droves, just like they did 2 years ago.
I agree with your points, but Stull picking Minny tells me that he didn't see a guaranteed role at Valpo. The downside of having 10 talented underclassmen on your roster is that recruits seeking immediate playing time might be scared away. This is when you search for diamonds in the rough (like Vashil) who can develop into great players over a few years.
Captain Obvious here.
Yes, good players are crucial, but regardless of who we have on the roster on November 1 (which might be where we are right now with no new xfer adds), our team has to come out of the chute as a legit MVC team in all respects. We did not do that in 17-18 in our first year. We were a very good HL team, retained a HL attitude going into the conference season and played like a HL team well into the conference season. Then some light bulbs turned on and, IMO, we got it. We finally began to understand the difference and started to play accordingly.
In 18-19, whoever is on the roster has got to START the MVC part of the schedule the way we finished 17-18 and then grow in those 18 games to be the team everybody expected us to be when they invited us. That puts a lot of pressure on the coaches and players to up their game.
It took Loyola 5 years to get there. Can we get there in 2 or 3?
I don't think last year's team played with a HL attitude. I think that team play like a brand new/inexperienced team that lost it's most talented scorer before conference play and Tevonn was dealing mono last season. Last year was frustrating for multiple reasons but those guys played hard pretty much all season long.
The 15-16 and 16-17 team wouldn't have problems competing in the MVC. I'm sure the juniors will take another step next season and we'll see how Mileek is progressing. The team (knock on wood) should be more competitive and should make fewer rookie mistakes.
I'm really looking for the team to be more efficient and make fewer mental mistakes. A lot of that comes with experience.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 17, 2018, 10:47:33 PMWe were a very good HL team, retained a HL attitude going into the conference season and played like a HL team well into the conference season. Then some light bulbs turned on and, IMO, we got it. We finally began to understand the difference and started to play accordingly.
It took Loyola 5 years to get there. Can we get there in 2 or 3?
Quote from: VU2014 on May 18, 2018, 08:35:15 AM
I'm sure the juniors will take another step next season and we'll see how Mileek is progressing. The team (knock on wood) should be more competitive and should make fewer rookie mistakes.
I'm really looking for the team to be more efficient and make fewer mental mistakes. A lot of that comes with experience.
I look at 17-18 as three seasons in one with two different Valpo teams taking the court. Season One was the OOC portion and was played with Team #1 that had Joe and a healthy Tevonn. It was impressive but this season was over before we started Season Two. Water under the bridge.
A new Season Two, a new Team #2 (we lost Joe for the entire MVC conference schedule and Tevonn needed to recuperate from mono). Team #2 was Valpo's
only entry in the MVC portion of the schedule. By characterizing this team as playing with the same approach that we had in competing in the HL, I meant this group was just not prepared to compete at the MVC level. Even Matt stated as much. BTW, other Valpo coaches have said the same thing -- "whoa, this is gonna be tougher than we thought" --- because our only frame of reference was years in the HL.
Season Three (~last third of the MVC schedule), still the same Team #2: The very same kids were on the floor as in season two, but at one point they collectively "got it" and the season transitioned into Season Three where they played up to the conference competition (
competition which, BTW, was also gaining incremental experience in parallel with Valpo). It is all relative. Yet, we closed the competitive gap in Season Three (again with the same kids we had in the first 2/3s of the MVC schedule.). So your "A lot of that comes with experience" statement is valid, but only to an extent, and I would argue that Valpo showed greater improvement relative to the whole conferrence. My point, as Captain Obvious, was that Valpo needs to pick up where they left off. We cannot afford to slip back even a bit. That is why I posed the question about comparing, over time, our future growth to that of Loyola's past 5 years. I am optimistic that our progress will be faster.
Zane Martin is transferring from Towson Averaged almost 20 ppg last year. Only reason I am mentioning him in this thread is because Loyola has registered interest in bringing him aboard. Despite their tremendous run this past year I don't see them landing him in the face of such intense competition from P5 schools. He also took a staggering 38% of Towson's shots last year which makes me question his efficiency as well as his fit in any offense that stresses a balanced attack such as Loyola's. That said it's always important to grab talent wherever and whenever possible so that could be a reason for the Ramblers' interest.
Loyola has yet to feel a F4 boost to their recruiting. Valpo's actually ahead of them in average stars (for whatever that's worth).
You'd think a grad transfer would see the appeal in being Clayton Custer's running mate.
Since we already added Eron Gordon I'm not sure adding another red-shirt guard is in the cards for us.
Quote from: may know on May 21, 2018, 03:26:12 PM
You'd think a grad transfer would see the appeal in being Clayton Custer's running mate.
Custer will be graduated by the time he gets on the court.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 21, 2018, 03:05:28 PM
Zane Martin is transferring from Towson Averaged almost 20 ppg last year. Only reason I am mentioning him in this thread is because Loyola has registered interest in bringing him aboard. Despite their tremendous run this past year I don't see them landing him in the face of such intense competition from P5 schools. He also took a staggering 38% of Towson's shots last year which makes me question his efficiency as well as his fit in any offense that stresses a balanced attack such as Loyola's. That said it's always important to grab talent wherever and whenever possible so that could be a reason for the Ramblers' interest.
Based on the other schools with interest, at least if it's serious (Louisville, Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Texas Tech, Auburn, Maryland, Kansas State), I'd be shocked if Loyola wound up getting him. This kid's an absolute stud considering he took nearly 27% Towson's total field goal attempts as a team last year, and had an efficiency rating of 109.4. He was also the team's best passer and had a solid defensive rebounding rate for his size, which for a guard is great (6'4, 205 lbs). This is the kind of player that P5 programs leave an open scholarship for.
Recruiting stars mean nothing really. See: Harris, Jay and Hazen, Parker Also I believe we were #1 last year in the MVC and we all know how last year turned out. I do find it a bit curious especially with middle and long term options beginning to dwindle that Loyola isn't going after players like Wiley and Jaylin Patterson who are immediately eligible and would likely boost their immediate competitiveness and allow them to build on last year's momentum and their window with Custer. They can always find a replacement in the 2019 class especially if they load up and make another deep run.
As for Martin I don't think he'd be coming our way regardless of Gordon's presence with all the P5 interest he is generating. He looks like a guy who is a near certainty to transfer up either to a P5 school or a top contender in a midmajor conference. That's not us yet I don't think. It should be us next year but it is not us this year. That's why I'm cool with loading up on transfers and giving 2019-2020 and perhaps 2020-2021 as well everything we have.
Quote from: may know on May 21, 2018, 03:26:12 PM
Loyola has yet to feel a F4 boost to their recruiting. Valpo's actually ahead of them in average stars (for whatever that's worth).
You'd think a grad transfer would see the appeal in being Clayton Custer's running mate.
Yet being involved in Custer's last stand has never been that beneficial in the past.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 21, 2018, 03:42:29 PMThat's why I'm cool with loading up on transfers and giving 2019-2020 and perhaps 2020-2021 as well everything we have.
The Vegas Golden Knights and Chicago Fire would be disappointed in that philosophy.
Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year). Hammink did play 3 more games in that year than Markus played this year. Personally, I think Hammink is a poor mans Golder!!! haha TBD really. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Golder play more PF because of our relative youth at that position (when compared to Shane playing more on ball or SG)?
Blk
Hammink (10)
Golder (16)
Assists
Hammink 61 (but 70 turns)
Golder 51 (but 50 turns)
MPG
Hammink (22.1)
Golder (22.6)
FGA
Hammink (224)
Golder (221)
FG%
Hammink (.500)
Golder (.493)
3-pt %
Hammink (.306)
Golder (.429)
FT%
Hammink (.786)
Golder (.831)
RPG
Hammink 3.1 rbg
Golder 4.3 rbg
Turn Overs
Hammink 70 or 2/game
Golder 50 or 1.56/game
Steals
Hammink 26
Golder 26
PPG
Hammink 8.9 ppg
Golder 9.5 ppg
Eye opening. Nice work.
When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.
Quote from: ml2 on May 23, 2018, 04:15:29 PM
When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.
Solid point. I think Golder is a better defender as well. Both players had chips on their shoulders, which serve them well if under control.
I like Golders upside for Valpo. He's as good or better of a "get" than any transfer I can remember in my 20-years as a fan.
Any competition outside of Shane?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 23, 2018, 04:28:07 PM
Quote from: ml2 on May 23, 2018, 04:15:29 PM
When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.
Solid point. I think Golder is a better defender as well. Both players had chips on their shoulders, which serve them well if under control.
I like Golders upside for Valpo. He's as good or better of a "get" than any transfer I can remember in my 20-years as a fan.
Any competition outside of Shane?
Keith Carter?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 22, 2018, 09:37:31 PM
Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year).
Quote from: ml2 on May 23, 2018, 04:15:29 PM
When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.
Small matter, but the numbers for Hammink appear to be from 15-16, Shane's junior year. However, that doesn't change the fact that Golder's future is bright.
Cory Johnson? I think Brandon Wood was a transfer as well?
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 23, 2018, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 22, 2018, 09:37:31 PM
Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year).
Quote from: ml2 on May 23, 2018, 04:15:29 PM
When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.
Small matter, but the numbers for Hammink appear to be from 15-16, Shane's junior year. However, that doesn't change the fact that Golder's future is bright.
Typo on my part, I meant (junior) to illustrate both first years in the program.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 23, 2018, 07:19:05 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 23, 2018, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 22, 2018, 09:37:31 PM
Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year).
Quote from: ml2 on May 23, 2018, 04:15:29 PM
When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.
Small matter, but the numbers for Hammink appear to be from 15-16, Shane's junior year. However, that doesn't change the fact that Golder's future is bright.
Typo on my part, I meant (junior) to illustrate both first years in the program.
No biggie ... I just knew Shane had bigger scoring numbers his senior year. Great comparison and illustrates Golder's upside! :thumbsup:
In past 25 years or so, Casey Schmidt and David Redmon were pretty good transfers....
Agree, Brandon, KC and Cory were among the best in past 20 years. Lavonte Dority and Ron Howard were pretty good transfers, too. Interesting is Golder is a JC transfer as opposed to D1 transfer, which Shane and Cory were. Darien Walker might be a good comparison, too, as he went to JC first before VU and was a finalist for top transfer. Likewise, one of my favorites from the JC route was Tarrance Price.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/2014-15/7383/darien-walker/ (http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/2014-15/7383/darien-walker/)
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/tarrance-price-joins-valpo-staff/article_fed83f67-e8f9-59e3-b82a-041f3b437ce0.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/tarrance-price-joins-valpo-staff/article_fed83f67-e8f9-59e3-b82a-041f3b437ce0.html)
Bradley will play in the Cancun Challenge against two of the following three teams: Wright State SMU Penn State This is a great scheduling get for the Braves and the MVC I think on the whole the conference chose their tournaments very well and created the potential for many quality matchups and hopefully several strong nonconference wins.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1000359631615680512
Six Talented Players Coming 'Home'
by Harry Schroeder
May 26, 2018
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/six-talented-players-coming-home/
Maybe the news came after the recording was done or maybe he wasn't mentioned because he won't be playing this year but I really feel like Eron Gordon deserved mention in this piece.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 26, 2018, 11:24:56 PM
Maybe the news came after the recording was done or maybe he wasn't mentioned because he won't be playing this year but I really feel like Eron Gordon deserved mention in this piece.
The article was probably only meant for players that will make an impact next season.
As a result of their performance in the NCAA basketball tournament, Loyola athletic donations have increasaed by 660 percent. I hope the Valpo suitors are aware of what this kind of success can bring to the school.
They(VU) certainly should be aware of that fact because they witnessed a large increase to the Ath. Dept and overall giving after "The Shot" season. To know and to do often are different things to some people. Let's hope our Administration learned it's lesson.
The University missed an opportunity with "The Shot". We're under different leadership these days with Heckler and ML. The board was also pretty conservative back in the 90's from what I hear. This University is still fairly fiscally conservative in terms of finances but they've clearly been more willing to spend under Heckler's leadership, so there is a chance if we went on another magical run that they'd capitalize on the moment.
TBH as much as want I want us to make significant investments in our facilities and our men's basketball program, I don't blame the University for not just shelling out a massive investments without a landmark moment as a catalyst for momentum. It's a sizable risk to just spend. I will lose all faith in the leadership of this University if we have another big run in the tourney and we don't capitalize on the moment. They better have blueprints or a plan incase it does happens though.
As for now it's sensible to be making smaller improvements to help the coaches in recruiting and things like improving the parking situation for fans. The most important thing in my mind is making sure we hire great coaches. It all starts and ends with having the right staff in place that can recruit, develop,
good x's & o's coaches and connect with the fanbase.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 27, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
The University missed an opportunity with "The Shot". We're under different leadership these days with Heckler and ML. The board was also pretty conservative back in the 90's from what I hear. This University is still fairly fiscally conservative in terms of finances but they've clearly been more willing to spend under Heckler's leadership, so there is a chance if we went on another magical run that they'd capitalize on the moment.
TBH as much as want I want us to make significant investments in our facilities and our men's basketball program, I don't blame the University for not just shelling out a massive investments without a landmark moment as a catalyst for momentum. It's a sizable risk to just spend. I will lose all faith in the leadership of this University if we have another big run in the tourney and we don't capitalize on the moment. They better have blueprints or a plan incase it does happens though.
As for now it's sensible to be making smaller improvements to help the coaches in recruiting and things like improving the parking situation for fans. The most important thing in my mind is making sure we hire great coaches. It all starts and ends with having the right staff in place that can recruit, develop,
good x's & o's coaches and connect with the fanbase.
Good points, but making plans on what to do when you have success seems somewhat backwards to me. Loyola didn't just sit on their hands waiting for success to magically happen ... they made investments in their program that created the opportunity for what happened this past season. That success has had financial benefits for them, but would that have happened without them first making the investments they made?
Investing in your program doesn't guarantee success (look at the bottom half of every P5 conference), but it's very difficult to compete for Sweet 16 appearances if you aren't committed to financially supporting your program. :twocents:
This is slightly off topic from the prior posts but somewhat of the same area related to marketing and the failure to capitalize. Why does the bookstore have such hideous gear???? Where can we find apparel that doesn't look like it's from the 1970s? I think that also goes to helping the image of the university. I live out of state now and when I watch all the games I see the players wearing cool warm ups and apparel. However, when I go to the bookstore or try to find it online all I can find are some shirts that are horrific and look like they were made decades ago. I specifically recall the players wear unique shirts during warm ups that I really liked but they were no where to be found when I tried to buy one. I assume I can't be the only person who thinks this. I will never understand the valpo marketing. There should be no reason I can't buy the same type of apparel of the quality and style the players are wearing. I have no marketing background but it seems like that would be common sense. When people see alumni and fans wearing cool apparel and it draws attention and helps the image of the university.
Should the MVC adopt something like this?
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/marshall_sports/chuck-landon-c-usa-making-big-moves-in-hoops/article_dad0483a-c987-5b60-9041-bfc87418accd.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 27, 2018, 07:48:32 PM
Should the MVC adopt something like this?
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/marshall_sports/chuck-landon-c-usa-making-big-moves-in-hoops/article_dad0483a-c987-5b60-9041-bfc87418accd.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share
To be fair, C-USA was raided heavily over the last few years via realignment. That said, this is either 1) an innovative and creative outside the box scheduling idea or 2) an indirect by-product of creating a bloated, watered down, fighting for multiple bid 14 team league that expanded in different "markets" for the sake of FBS football dollars without the P5 money or the P5 prestige.
Pick one.
In our case we can eliminate option 2 because we haven't watered the league down. Would it help a league that hasn't been watered down? Perhaps it would. I still think the best solution is to add Murray State and go to 20 games like the big conferences are considering but what do I know?
It wouldn't work in the MVC because of the round robin format already, but this is at least a creative way to try and create more bids, though I think for it to ultimately create more bids they would have to have at-large level teams in the league to begin conference play, which is where the challenge will remain. I think this plan can help their representative's seed line if one or 2 teams runs roughshod over the other 3 in that top-5 pod and doesn't suffer bad losses in their other 13 games. Unless teams are winning their big-time out of conference games though, I don't see it making an appreciable difference in seed lines or the league's number of bids.
MTSU's really only bad loss this year was in the conference tourney to Southern Miss, they had a decent, even if not spectacular non-conference win at Murray State and had the 6th toughest conference SOS already, went 16-2 in league play, and even they were just a 3 seed in the NIT, which suggests they were nowhere close to being an at-large school.
At this point though, a mid-major league can't simply give up trying new ideas, and this certainly isn't a bad one.
The only way something like this works in the Valley is if you go to 20 games, play your round robin then matchup based on standings for those last two games. Hopefully replace two of your lower-rated non-conference games with two better-RPI conference games. But then this all assumes that the Selection Committee won't simply move the goalposts again for midmajors, like they've done a dozen other times.
One league that would definitely benefit from this is the MAC. They always seem to have 3-4 really good teams weighed down by the hind end of that conference. Four less games against the basement could make a huge difference for those top MAC teams (who used to routinely be a multi-bid league prior to expanding to 12 teams).
Experiment might be short-lived for CUSA. That is a league overextended in geography (El Paso to Florida to West Virginia) with little income rolling in.
Leaves open possibility of 4 games against your travel partner (2+pod+tourney). Last time that was possible was when KSU/WVU completed a previous OOC contract the year WVU joined the BXII.
Bradley appears to have filled out the rest of their roster. Highly touted 2019 recruit Ari Boya a 7 footer from Cameroon who was ranked in the top 200 in his class has successfully reclassified to 2018. They have also added Jashon Henry from Canada who averaged 29ppg and is ranked as the #9 prospect in Canada. It's going to be very difficult to break into the top 4 of the MVC for any team not based in Illinois.
Missouri State appears to have added a 4 star transfer from South Florida Tulio Da Silva.
http://verbalcommits.com/players/tulio-da-silva
They are also hosting a grad transfer from Texas Tech. We'll see if they get him.
Bad news for the Iowa schools and for the MVC as a whole:
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa/bbmen-recruiting/2018/06/14/hy-vee-classic-end-after-2018-after-iowa-announces-pulling-out/702807002/
We need to focus on playing as many elite mids as possible as the P5 continues to tighten its grip. We also need to get as many quality games as we can in conference. I know you're tired of hearing me beat this drum but can we please add Murray State now?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 13, 2018, 09:57:10 PMMissouri State appears to have added a 4 star transfer from South Florida Tulio Da Silva. http://verbalcommits.com/players/tulio-da-silva They are also hosting a grad transfer from Texas Tech. We'll see if they get him.
Update:The Bears ended up getting both players and have no scholarships remaining this year.
Illinois State hires former Duke star and NBA player Chris Duhon who was most recently at Marshall which upset Wichita State in the NCAA Tournament. Are we getting closer to naming an assistant to replace coach Dildy?
https://twitter.com/redbird_mbb/status/1008746743230582784?s=21
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 18, 2018, 07:12:34 PM
Illinois State hires former Duke star and NBA player Chris Duhon who was most recently at Marshall which upset Wichita State in the NCAA Tournament. Are we getting closer to naming an assistant to replace coach Dildy?
https://twitter.com/redbird_mbb/status/1008746743230582784?s=21
Hopefully relatively soon. Judging from Coach Lottich's most recent comment's they may be looking for a Coach with Chicago connections.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 18, 2018, 07:12:34 PM
Illinois State hires former Duke star and NBA player Chris Duhon who was most recently at Marshall which upset Wichita State in the NCAA Tournament. Are we getting closer to naming an assistant to replace coach Dildy?
https://twitter.com/redbird_mbb/status/1008746743230582784?s=21
Sad to see he has several DUI's in recent years. Resigned from Marshall for his 2nd offense it seems
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Duhon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Duhon)
Anyone else looking forward to the next Union Street Hoops!?!?
Oren teases us about a big interview and then radio silence. Is this what they call building the suspense? Or maybe a much deserved summer vacation?
Either way, hope you continue USH even with your buddy Parker moving on.
It's quiet since this tweet https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1006240797963046913
Recruiting or coaching news forthcoming perhaps?
3 MVC Teams in midmadness's Way Too Early Mid-major Top 25:
Loyola checks in at #3
Illinois State is #16
and Bradley is in at #23
A bit surprised to see Southern Illinois absent from this list but this is still very positive for the conference.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/5/17429134/2018-19-mid-major-madness-power-rankings-nba-draft-transfer-nevada-cody-caleb-martin-gonzaga
I'm not buying the Bradley stock yet.....Maybe its the impression Wardle gave me at Green Bay, but it seems his teams never meet expectations.
Alize Johnson drafted 50th overall by the Pacers. I know the injury played a role in Peters case but the fact that a guy who didn't win MVC player of the year who didn't impress at the combine and who was on a mediocre team went higher than an honorable mention all American whose team received an at large bid to the NIT should tell you everything you need to know about how the HL and the MVC are perceived
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 21, 2018, 11:40:12 PM
Alize Johnson drafted 50th overall by the Pacers. I know the injury played a role in Peters case but the fact that a guy who didn't win MVC player of the year who didn't impress at the combine and who was on a mediocre team went higher than an honorable mention all American whose team received an at large bid to the NIT should tell you everything you need to know about how the HL and the MVC are perceived
Damn Bird, he couldn't pick a hooker on Meridian.
Alize Johnson............jeez!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 21, 2018, 11:40:12 PM
Alize Johnson drafted 50th overall by the Pacers. I know the injury played a role in Peters case but the fact that a guy who didn't win MVC player of the year who didn't impress at the combine and who was on a mediocre team went higher than an honorable mention all American whose team received an at large bid to the NIT should tell you everything you need to know about how the HL and the MVC are perceived
I haven't really been a Pacer fan since the old ABA days but if I was then I might not be too happy with the selection.
Quote from: bbtds on June 22, 2018, 12:10:22 AMDamn Bird, he couldn't pick a hooker on Meridian.
Alize Johnson............jeez!
And you would know this because ??? ::)
If he makes good on the Draymond Green comparisons I've seen some folks make for him (unlikely) he'll win the fans in Indy over for sure
Alize Johnson was 3 rebounds and 1 rebound from pulling 20/20's against VU. He looked like an NBA'er both games.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 21, 2018, 11:40:12 PM
Alize Johnson drafted 50th overall by the Pacers. I know the injury played a role in Peters case but the fact that a guy who didn't win MVC player of the year who didn't impress at the combine and who was on a mediocre team went higher than an honorable mention all American whose team received an at large bid to the NIT should tell you everything you need to know about how the HL and the MVC are perceived
Or it could tell you how much athleticism is still valued.
Quote from: may know on June 22, 2018, 04:10:23 AMAlize Johnson was 3 rebounds and 1 rebound from pulling 20/20's against VU. He looked like an NBA'er both games.
He actually pulled it off at least twice that I can remember.
Quote from: justducky on June 22, 2018, 12:40:52 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 21, 2018, 11:40:12 PM
Alize Johnson drafted 50th overall by the Pacers. I know the injury played a role in Peters case but the fact that a guy who didn't win MVC player of the year who didn't impress at the combine and who was on a mediocre team went higher than an honorable mention all American whose team received an at large bid to the NIT should tell you everything you need to know about how the HL and the MVC are perceived
I haven't really been a Pacer fan since the old ABA days but if I was then I might not be too happy with the selection.
Quote from: bbtds on June 22, 2018, 12:10:22 AMDamn Bird, he couldn't pick a hooker on Meridian.
Alize Johnson............jeez!
And you would know this because ??? ::)
Just an expression that Larry Bird doesn't know real professional talent when he sees it. Even radio host and colorperson, Dan Dakich, agrees with me on this one, and that's a miracle.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 21, 2018, 11:40:12 PM
Alize Johnson drafted 50th overall by the Pacers. I know the injury played a role in Peters case but the fact that a guy who didn't win MVC player of the year who didn't impress at the combine and who was on a mediocre team went higher than an honorable mention all American whose team received an at large bid to the NIT should tell you everything you need to know about how the HL and the MVC are perceived
If you're using that logic, then Elfrid Payton getting selected 10th overall in 2014, when he wasn't the conference player of the year, was on a team with a similar kenpom rating as Missouri State this year, his team didn't win the regular season conference title and yet he was selected higher than Alec Peters or Alize Johnson should tell you everything you need to know about how the Sun Belt, MVC and Horizon League are perceived.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2018/06/21/pacers-draft-picks-2018-alize-johnson-selected-50th-nba-draft/722839002/
Pritchard explains the pick.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2018/06/21/pacers-draft-picks-2018-alize-johnson-selected-50th-nba-draft/722839002/
Loyola has received a commitment from 2019 6'4 SG Paxson Wojcik from LaLumiere Had offers from DePaul and Indiana State among others and was attracting interest from ND Northwestern and Oklahoma State.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 24, 2018, 08:49:39 PM
Loyola has received a commitment from 2019 6'4 SG Paxson Wojcik from LaLumiere Had offers from DePaul and Indiana State among others and was attracting interest from ND Northwestern and Oklahoma State.
The Loyola staff has built a relationship with the LaLumiere coaches the last few years this is the second player they've landed from there within the last couple years. It's weird to think LaLumiere is just down the road in LaPorte but I feel like we never hear about them or tap into that prep school much. They quietly keep pumping out top end D1 talent there. The last guy that I remember us recruiting was Joesph Toye. Ironically he was offered by Bryce but chose Vandy over Valpo and Bryce eventually became his coach anyways.
Dino Jakolis went there. Pretty sure that was before they were a national powerhouse.
Commissioner Doug Elgin's MVC teleconference interview.
He addresseses:
-NCAA Tournament Selection Sunday reform
-It sounds like they will be phasing out RPI somewhat
-Talks about the NCAA adding a potential "Showcase Round"
-Potential future Conference expansion
-MVC/MWC Challenge ending
-He's asked about CUSA's scheduling format. He addresses the issue he has with it.
https://soundcloud.com/mvcsports/doug-elgin-mvc-commissioner
Interesting to hear the commish say that the league offices try and discourage taking 1 game guarantee games. I understand the logic but sometimes you need to take one or two give the schedule a boost if you have any hope of building at-large resume. In a perfect world we'd get H-&-H's but Power Conference schools tend to almost never agree to them these days. Most of the Mid-major/P5 series these days are when the P5 coach is friends with the mid-major coach and they are trying to help them out.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 29, 2018, 08:58:39 AM
Commissioner Doug Elgin's MVC teleconference interview.
He addresseses:
-NCAA Tournament Selection Sunday reform
-It sounds like they will be phasing out RPI somewhat
-Talks about the NCAA adding a potential "Showcase Round"
-Potential future Conference expansion
-MVC/MWC Challenge ending
-He's asked about CUSA's scheduling format. He addresses the issue he has with it.
https://soundcloud.com/mvcsports/doug-elgin-mvc-commissioner
Interesting to hear the commish say that the league offices try and discourage taking 1 game guarantee games. I understand the logic but sometimes you need to take one or two give the schedule a boost if you have any hope of building at-large resume. In a perfect world we'd get H-&-H's but Power Conference schools tend to almost never agree to them these days. Most of the Mid-major/P5 series these days are when the P5 coach is friends with the mid-major coach and they are trying to help them out.
Yeah he contradicted himself a bit when saying that they discourage guaranteed games, but that the best way to boost your tournament resume is going to be in the non-conference scheduling. There's always a balance there no matter what league you're in.
Do you want to play a slate of guarantee games? No. Do you want to play two or three? Yes. Return games are great, but they will be even fewer and more difficult to get moving forward with the advent of 20-game conference schedules. A slate full of "quality" games absent of wins over the P5 will NEVER get a midmajor an at-large bid. Gotta take those chances.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 24, 2018, 11:48:18 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 24, 2018, 08:49:39 PM
Loyola has received a commitment from 2019 6'4 SG Paxson Wojcik from LaLumiere Had offers from DePaul and Indiana State among others and was attracting interest from ND Northwestern and Oklahoma State.
The Loyola staff has built a relationship with the LaLumiere coaches the last few years this is the second player they've landed from there within the last couple years. It's weird to think LaLumiere is just down the road in LaPorte but I feel like we never hear about them or tap into that prep school much. They quietly keep pumping out top end D1 talent there. The last guy that I remember us recruiting was Joesph Toye. Ironically he was offered by Bryce but chose Vandy over Valpo and Bryce eventually became his coach anyways.
Not disputing your point, but I would just mention that De'Andre Haskins ('08-09) came from LaLumiere:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/2008-09/358/deandre-haskins/
As to Loyola, LaLumiere is Catholic, so there's that. LaLumiere also has a strong connection to DePaul. LaLumiere's highly successful former head coach is now a DePaul assistant.
Looks like Loyola will play a neutral site game against Maryland in Baltimore! Big scheduling get for them and for the MVC!
https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2018/7/2/17521196/penn-state-nittany-lions-maryland-terrapins-rutgers-scarlet-knights-ncaa-basketball-big-ten-recruit
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 03, 2018, 03:27:43 PM
Looks like Loyola will play a neutral site game against Maryland in Baltimore! Big scheduling get for them and for the MVC!
https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2018/7/2/17521196/penn-state-nittany-lions-maryland-terrapins-rutgers-scarlet-knights-ncaa-basketball-big-ten-recruit
Never forget.
Why you gotta go and throw salt into that wound?
Informal Poll: Most stinging lingering memory of the past 25 years:
1. No tourney in 95
2. The BC loss
3. The Maryland loss
4, The great snub of 2016
5. Other (please specify)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 03, 2018, 04:24:48 PM
Why you gotta go and throw salt into that wound?
Informal Poll: Most stinging lingering memory of the past 25 years:
1. No tourney in 95
2. The BC loss
3. The Maryland loss
4, The great snub of 2016
5. Other (please specify)
I can only speak to 3 and 4. Both hurt but I'd go with 3 because it was a robbery from the ref.
https://twitter.com/courierpress/status/1014191183856390145
After Loyola's run, where does Missouri Valley Conference basketball go from here?
By: Pat Hickey
Evansville Courier & Press
July 3, 2018
https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2018/07/03/missouri-valley-conference-basketball-one-bid-again-early-favorite/753954002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Quote from: VU2014 on July 03, 2018, 07:24:40 PM
https://twitter.com/courierpress/status/1014191183856390145
After Loyola's run, where does Missouri Valley Conference basketball go from here?
By: Pat Hickey
Evansville Courier & Press
July 3, 2018
https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2018/07/03/missouri-valley-conference-basketball-one-bid-again-early-favorite/753954002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
8th? There is some serious bulletin board material! We are going to surprise some folks.
Quote from: vu72 on July 03, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on July 03, 2018, 07:24:40 PM
https://twitter.com/courierpress/status/1014191183856390145
After Loyola's run, where does Missouri Valley Conference basketball go from here?
By: Pat Hickey
Evansville Courier & Press
July 3, 2018
https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2018/07/03/missouri-valley-conference-basketball-one-bid-again-early-favorite/753954002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
8th? There is some serious bulletin board material! We are going to surprise some folks.
I think we are lucky to get 8/10 pre-season. We were a hot mess last year from our league compatriots pov. Only we know the strides made despite the loss of Burton and the mono from Tevonn.
Quote from: vu72 on July 03, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on July 03, 2018, 07:24:40 PM
https://twitter.com/courierpress/status/1014191183856390145
After Loyola's run, where does Missouri Valley Conference basketball go from here?
By: Pat Hickey
Evansville Courier & Press
July 3, 2018
https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2018/07/03/missouri-valley-conference-basketball-one-bid-again-early-favorite/753954002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
8th? There is some serious bulletin board material! We are going to surprise some folks.
I agree, but I also understand if we're a little underranked in the preseason. We've got to learn to finish and win the close ones that we didn't last year if we want respect from the prognosticators. It's a tough league and the games are battles throughout the conference slate. I think anywhere from 5-8 is a reasonable place to slot Valpo given what we know right now. If we're competitive and finish toward the higher end of that range, we will surely be looked upon as a prime contender in 19-20 as we all expect. But we've got some things to prove first and I believe we will prove them. I'm excited for next season. Go Valpo!
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1016133396974665729
Quote from: VU2014 on July 08, 2018, 11:10:54 PM
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1016133396974665729
Some thoughts I posted on this tweet on MVC Fans:
I like his selection of Golder for Valpo, especially if you consider Evelyn as already having broken out. He looks like a player who has the complete package. He's athletic he can shoot and defend. I think Mileek McMillan and Derrik Smits could also be also poised for big years. Smits really seemed to be putting it together on the offensive end at the end of the year and McMillan--who showed many flashes of high-end potential--is working very hard this offseason.
Micah Bradford is the wildcard on the team. The offense fares a lot better when he plays on-ball as a distributor and can use his speed to create for others. I hope he is the starting PG with Evelyn playing off the ball. Unless of course Javon Freeman-Liberty busts down the door as a freshman and takes the starting job at SG, which is certainly possible. The coaching staff and fanbase are very high on him. In that case, Evelyn is the starting PG.
Another player to watch out for is the now eligible transfer form Providence Ryan Fazekas. We're not entirely sure how he'll be used but his size and shooting ability will ensure that he sees significant minutes. This far out, I'm not sure what the lineup will be, after all, we still have an open scholarship, but I expect a very competitive team this year.
Something perhaps for Micah, Bakari, and Daniel to strive for:
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/morant-custer-invited-by-cp3/
Congratulations to Clayton Custer and Ja Morant for making it this year.
I know I keep beating this drum but can we PLEASE get Murray State to the MVC soon? I really want to see Morant play at the ARC. He's a really special talent.
Hoping for similar games in the near future.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1016361514255699968
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 05:22:22 AM
Hoping for similar games in the near future.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1016361514255699968
My guess is the Ill State and UCF series was a benefit to the Redbirds hiring Chris Duhon, who Dawkins coached while he was at Duke.
UCF's not a bad team under Dawkins, but why would you want a home and home with them? It's generally not the kind of game that helps or hurts a team come selection Sunday, and probably doesn't get home fans excited for the matchup either, though it'd probably be better than Santa Clara.
Vermont's in a terrible league, but generally fields a similar level team to UCF (if not better), and they recruit Indiana, so I'm sure they'd like the prospect of a home and home with Valpo.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 10, 2018, 06:43:22 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 05:22:22 AM
Hoping for similar games in the near future.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1016361514255699968
My guess is the Ill State and UCF series was a benefit to the Redbirds hiring Chris Duhon, who Dawkins coached while he was at Duke.
UCF's not a bad team under Dawkins, but why would you want a home and home with them? It's generally not the kind of game that helps or hurts a team come selection Sunday, and probably doesn't get home fans excited for the matchup either, though it'd probably be better than Santa Clara.
Vermont's in a terrible league, but generally fields a similar level team to UCF (if not better), and they recruit Indiana, so I'm sure they'd like the prospect of a home and home with Valpo.
I would LOVE a home and home with Vermont. Belmont too as another often good program that recruits Indiana. Anyway you're probably right that the Duke connections probably made this happen. My desire isn't for UCF per se--even though it would be a solid series--but for a game against the kind of program UCF is expected to be this year (at or near the top of a strong multibid non-P5 league, strong at-large caliber team that isn't unbeatable).
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 06:59:38 AM
I would LOVE a home and home with Vermont. Belmont too as another often good program that recruits Indiana. Anyway you're probably right that the Duke connections probably made this happen. My desire isn't for UCF per se--even though it would be a solid series--but for a game against the kind of program UCF is expected to be this year (at or near the top of a strong multibid non-P5 league, strong at-large caliber team that isn't unbeatable).
That's the challenge of scheduling for Valpo's coaching staff. You want to get teams on the schedule that are going to be good enough to maybe be a quality win come selection Sunday (UCF is a good candidate, as they have a lot coming back), but also trying to time it up with when the Crusaders are going to be poised for a potential bid. Not an easy task, and it's made harder because all programs are getting smarter in terms of knowing which mid-majors might be strong enough to knock them off.
Valpo, assuming no one significant transfers out, is maybe a year away from being a really good team. I can't imagine it's going to be easy to get power conference teams to want to schedule you when you could have 10 Juniors and Seniors on the team.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 10, 2018, 09:37:39 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 06:59:38 AM
I would LOVE a home and home with Vermont. Belmont too as another often good program that recruits Indiana. Anyway you're probably right that the Duke connections probably made this happen. My desire isn't for UCF per se--even though it would be a solid series--but for a game against the kind of program UCF is expected to be this year (at or near the top of a strong multibid non-P5 league, strong at-large caliber team that isn't unbeatable).
That's the challenge of scheduling for Valpo's coaching staff. You want to get teams on the schedule that are going to be good enough to maybe be a quality win come selection Sunday (UCF is a good candidate, as they have a lot coming back), but also trying to time it up with when the Crusaders are going to be poised for a potential bid. Not an easy task, and it's made harder because all programs are getting smarter in terms of knowing which mid-majors might be strong enough to knock them off.
Valpo, assuming no one significant transfers out, is maybe a year away from being a really good team. I can't imagine it's going to be easy to get power conference teams to want to schedule you when you could have 10 Juniors and Seniors on the team.
Playing other elite mids may be our best bet for most of the schedule.
UNI makes college basketball madness Top 144 at #129. The first of what I hope will be many MVC teams on this list.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16379
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 13, 2018, 05:18:08 AM
UNI makes college basketball madness Top 144 at #129. The first of what I hope will be many MVC teams on this list.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16379
I think at least 5 other MVC teams will make the list.
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 13, 2018, 09:55:02 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 13, 2018, 05:18:08 AM
UNI makes college basketball madness Top 144 at #129. The first of what I hope will be many MVC teams on this list.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16379
I think at least 5 other MVC teams will make the list.
I doubt we make the list. No one will be giving us the benefit of the doubt after a rough season. Bradley, SIU, Illinois State, and Loyola will all be on there.
Rumor has it (can't find a link to a concrete source but there's lots of speculation) that Illinois State has added a Home and Home series with VCU. Their schedule already includes a good MTE, Ole Miss,BYU, SDSU,UCF,FGCU. THIS is the very definition of what I mean ehen I say I want to see Valpo schedule tough and smart. ALL of these games are tough but winnable, and this from a team that hasn't made the tournament in 20 years. Don't tell me it can't be done when there's an example right here. Get it done.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 13, 2018, 10:03:47 AMQuote from: EddieCabot on July 13, 2018, 09:55:02 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 13, 2018, 05:18:08 AMUNI makes college basketball madness Top 144 at #129. The first of what I hope will be many MVC teams on this list. http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16379
I think at least 5 other MVC teams will make the list.
I doubt we make the list. No one will be giving us the benefit of the doubt after a rough season. Bradley, SIU, Illinois State, and Loyola will all be on there.
According to those rankings, UNI is projected to finish sixth in the MVC. That means, assuming four of those positions go to the Illinois schools (Loyola Illinois State SIU and Bradley) one is left. That means one of Valpo, Missouri State and Indiana State is likely to make it. If it's not VU I think it'll probably be Missouri State.
New tournament metric coming soon that will de-emphasize RPI. Will it help us mids?
https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_dc5f6c43-ccec-5051-b6f0-159d98df87d8.html
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 14, 2018, 01:50:20 AM
New tournament metric coming soon that will de-emphasize RPI. Will it help us mids?
https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_dc5f6c43-ccec-5051-b6f0-159d98df87d8.html
They don't emphasize RPI at all as it stands, so I doubt there's much impact.
Elijah Clarance could be set for a big year for ISUr. He was probably the most hyped up freshman in the MVC coming into last season and had a disappointing year but you can see the potential.
https://twitter.com/Asier_SG/status/1018470326290862081
Quote from: VU2014 on July 15, 2018, 10:24:31 AM
Elijah Clarance could be set for a big year for ISUr. He was probably the most hyped up freshman in the MVC coming into last season and had a disappointing year but you can see the potential.
https://twitter.com/Asier_SG/status/1018470326290862081
When he played @ VU last year I kept flashing back to Shane Hammink. He has better handles than Shane but is explosive. I like his intensity. Think he played @ VU because their starter had a knee contusion or something. That was a critical game for our young teams confidence after getting rail roared on the road by them weeks before. It was the first time I felt we had leadership and a really competitive spirit.
Another solid scheduling get for Loyola.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1017133780547620865
Sounds like a great opportunity for Markus
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1019029046380978176
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1018996933237641217
Wasn't sure where to put this one, as it could go either here or in the expansion thread, but the NCAA released their attendance figures for 2017-18: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf
MVC was 10th in attendance at an average of 4,021 per game, and the conference tourney average attendance was 12th at an average of 6,962 per game (WCC and Summit jumped them in the tourney attendance averages).
Average attendance rankings by MVC school (and capacity % to their arena)
1. Bradley - 5,699 (52%)
2. Illinois St. - 5,142 (50%)
3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%)
4. UNI - 4,090 (56%)
5. SIU - 3,966 (48%)
6. Evansville - 3,782 (42%)
7. Indiana St. - 3,675 (36%)
8. Drake - 3,195 (45%)
9. Valpo - 2,722 (54%)
10. Loyola - 2,404 (54%)
Other notables (per potential expansion efforts)
NKU - 4,135 (44%)
Murray St. - 3,800 (44%)
Belmont - 2,408 (48%)
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 17, 2018, 12:34:29 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this one, as it could go either here or in the expansion thread, but the NCAA released their attendance figures for 2017-18: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf)
MVC was 10th in attendance at an average of 4,021 per game, and the conference tourney average attendance was 12th at an average of 6,962 per game (WCC and Summit jumped them in the tourney attendance averages).
Average attendance rankings by MVC school (and capacity % to their arena)
1. Bradley - 5,699 (52%)
2. Illinois St. - 5,142 (50%)
3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%)
4. UNI - 4,090 (56%)
5. SIU - 3,966 (48%)
6. Evansville - 3,782 (42%)
7. Indiana St. - 3,675 (36%)
8. Drake - 3,195 (45%)
9. Valpo - 2,722 (54%)
10. Loyola - 2,404 (54%)
Other notables (per potential expansion efforts)
NKU - 4,135 (44%)
Murray St. - 3,800 (44%)
Belmont - 2,408 (48%)
Those attendance numbers should be disappointing, to say the least, for both Loyola (a Final Four quality team) and Valparaiso (with expected excitement about joining a new conference). Valpo had envisioned a boost in attendance by joining a top-10 conference and bringing in more attractive and stronger teams. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League, overall home attendance was 3666. In that first year in the Horizon League Valpo was only 5-4 at home, same as this year (so success and winning at home isn't the difference), yet attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to the home conference average this year of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus of this off-season for the Athletics administration.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 17, 2018, 12:34:29 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this one, as it could go either here or in the expansion thread, but the NCAA released their attendance figures for 2017-18: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf
MVC was 10th in attendance at an average of 4,021 per game, and the conference tourney average attendance was 12th at an average of 6,962 per game (WCC and Summit jumped them in the tourney attendance averages).
Average attendance rankings by MVC school (and capacity % to their arena)
1. Bradley - 5,699 (52%)
2. Illinois St. - 5,142 (50%)
3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%)
4. UNI - 4,090 (56%)
5. SIU - 3,966 (48%)
6. Evansville - 3,782 (42%)
7. Indiana St. - 3,675 (36%)
8. Drake - 3,195 (45%)
9. Valpo - 2,722 (54%)
10. Loyola - 2,404 (54%)
Other notables (per potential expansion efforts)
NKU - 4,135 (44%)
Murray St. - 3,800 (44%)
Belmont - 2,408 (48%)
So that renovated arena at Loyola really did boost attendance! :rotfl:
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 17, 2018, 12:34:29 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this one, as it could go either here or in the expansion thread, but the NCAA released their attendance figures for 2017-18: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf
MVC was 10th in attendance at an average of 4,021 per game, and the conference tourney average attendance was 12th at an average of 6,962 per game (WCC and Summit jumped them in the tourney attendance averages).
Average attendance rankings by MVC school (and capacity % to their arena)
1. Bradley - 5,699 (52%) What else is there to do in town?
2. Illinois St. - 5,142 (50%). What else is there to do in town?
3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%). There is nothing else to do in town.
4. UNI - 4,090 (56%). There is nothing else to do in town.
5. SIU - 3,966 (48%). Best student section.
6. Evansville - 3,782 (42%). City owns arena and shares with semi-pro teams.
7. Indiana St. - 3,675 (36%) Their track is a blue smurf track.
8. Drake - 3,195 (45%). What else is there to do in town?
9. Valpo - 2,722 (54%). What else is there to do in town?
10. Loyola - 2,404 (54%). Students were loud and proud, fun to watch their games.
Other notables (per potential expansion efforts)
NKU - 4,135 (44%)
Murray St. - 3,800 (44%)
Belmont - 2,408 (48%)
Thanks Irish, that is very interesting. Both in regards to where we sit in the attendance scheme nationally/MVC/prospective members. Wonder how difficult it would be to chart the same with
"Arena Year Built and Cost in todays dollars". To get perspective on how much money MVC teams sunk into their arenas and what it looks like years later. (If you build it they will come?)
We should NEVER have a goal of topping this list as a private institution of our size, but the % of seats filled at game time is intriguing. We are tied for 2nd as % of seats filled in a year which we were 10/10 in standings for pretty much the whole conference season.
Loyola is only 54% filled in a year where they made the Final Four. Maybe we don't have the attendance problem that some of us think we have? Although if memory serves, we are down in attendance when compared to the last 10-years averages this past season. So maybe we should only judge based on our history when it comes to attendance and sell outs.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 17, 2018, 12:34:29 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this one, as it could go either here or in the expansion thread, but the NCAA released their attendance figures for 2017-18: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf
MVC was 10th in attendance at an average of 4,021 per game, and the conference tourney average attendance was 12th at an average of 6,962 per game (WCC and Summit jumped them in the tourney attendance averages).
Average attendance rankings by MVC school (and capacity % to their arena)
1. Bradley - 5,699 (52%)
2. Illinois St. - 5,142 (50%)
3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%)
4. UNI - 4,090 (56%)
5. SIU - 3,966 (48%)
6. Evansville - 3,782 (42%)
7. Indiana St. - 3,675 (36%)
8. Drake - 3,195 (45%)
9. Valpo - 2,722 (54%)
10. Loyola - 2,404 (54%)
Other notables (per potential expansion efforts)
NKU - 4,135 (44%)
Murray St. - 3,800 (44%)
Belmont - 2,408 (48%)
Last years attendance average of 2722 was the lowest in the past 25 seasons (2640 in '92-93).
Free Fallin' by the late great Tom Petty
[Verse 3]
I wanna glide down over Mulholland
I wanna write her name in the sky
I'm gonna free fall out into nothin'
Gonna leave this world for awhile
[Chorus]
And I'm free, free fallin'
(Free fallin', I'm-a free fallin')
Yeah I'm free, free fallin'
(Free fallin', I'm-a free fallin')
And I'm free, free fallin'
(Free fallin', I'm-a free fallin')
Oh!
Free fallin'
(Free fallin', I'm-a free fallin')
And I'm free, oh! free fallin'
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on July 17, 2018, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 17, 2018, 12:34:29 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this one, as it could go either here or in the expansion thread, but the NCAA released their attendance figures for 2017-18: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf
MVC was 10th in attendance at an average of 4,021 per game, and the conference tourney average attendance was 12th at an average of 6,962 per game (WCC and Summit jumped them in the tourney attendance averages).
Average attendance rankings by MVC school (and capacity % to their arena)
1. Bradley - 5,699 (52%) What else is there to do in town?
2. Illinois St. - 5,142 (50%). What else is there to do in town?
3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%). There is nothing else to do in town.
4. UNI - 4,090 (56%). There is nothing else to do in town.
5. SIU - 3,966 (48%). Best student section.
6. Evansville - 3,782 (42%). City owns arena and shares with semi-pro teams.
7. Indiana St. - 3,675 (36%) Their track is a blue smurf track.
8. Drake - 3,195 (45%). What else is there to do in town?
9. Valpo - 2,722 (54%). What else is there to do in town?
10. Loyola - 2,404 (54%). Students were loud and proud, fun to watch their games.
Other notables (per potential expansion efforts)
NKU - 4,135 (44%)
Murray St. - 3,800 (44%)
Belmont - 2,408 (48%)
Thanks Irish, that is very interesting. Both in regards to where we sit in the attendance scheme nationally/MVC/prospective members. Wonder how difficult it would be to chart the same with "Arena Year Built and Cost in todays dollars". To get perspective on how much money MVC teams sunk into their arenas and what it looks like years later. (If you build it they will come?)
We should NEVER have a goal of topping this list as a private institution of our size, but the % of seats filled at game time is intriguing. We are tied for 2nd as % of seats filled in a year which we were 10/10 in standings for pretty much the whole conference season.
Loyola is only 54% filled in a year where they made the Final Four. Maybe we don't have the attendance problem that some of us think we have? Although if memory serves, we are down in attendance when compared to the last 10-years averages this past season. So maybe we should only judge based on our history when it comes to attendance and sell outs.
Not taking into account the size of the surrounding communities, here is a comparison of support from the undergraduate student bodies:
Average attendance as a percent of undergrad enrollment:
Evansville 161%
Bradley 127%
Drake 97.8%
Valpo 82.6%
UNI 40.9%
In St. 33.4%
SIU 33.1%
IL St. 27.6%
MSU 26.6%
Loyola 21.9%
Interesting how the private schools top the list except our final four team. :( If you think Valpo has an attendance issue think of Loyola with 11000 undergrads.
Missouri State declared a winner of transfer season by Mid-Major Madness. Honestly, I think the entire conference could be considered winners. There's been a major inflow of transfer talent throughout the conference.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/16/17574052/lets-declare-some-winners-and-losers-from-transfer-season-albany-missouri-state-south-alabama
Illinois State's Elijah Clarance is kicking some major backside in this U20 tournament. Could be one of many players to watch for the Redbirds next year. Those averages are impressive.
https://goredbirds.com/news/2018/7/21/mens-basketball-clarances-double-double-paces-sweden-past-romania.aspx?path=mbball
Quote from: vu72 on July 17, 2018, 02:36:24 PMMSU 26.6%
Quote from: vu72 on July 17, 2018, 02:36:24 PM3. Missouri St. - 4,517 (41%). There is nothing else to do in town.
I hear the duck boats at Table Rock Lake near Branson which are normally very popular have a lot of empty seats. Too soon?
Boy, that Indy lady who works in the Marion County prosecutors office and lost 9 members of her family in the duck boat accident, including her husband and 3 children, that is a hard interview to watch. So sad!
Quote from: bbtds on July 22, 2018, 11:37:16 AM
I hear the duck boats at Table Rock Lake near Branson which are normally very popular have a lot of empty seats. Too soon?
10 years from now would be too soon, IMO.
Loyola's Clayton Custer listed as the #5 mid-major PG in the nation. Jordan Barnes (Indiana State) and Keyshawn Evans (Illinois State) receive honorable mention.
https://cbbcentral.com/2018/07/23/top-ten-mid-major-players-by-position-point-guard/
Good article from Father Harry on Drake, Missouri State, and Evansville
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/3-coaches-rebuilding-rosters/
Per MVC Fans:
UNI will play South Dakota State and Drake will play North Dakota State. Both games will be in Minneapolis on December 1. UNI will also be hosting Stony Brook on December 29.
A mini MVC/SL challenge. MSP is a cool city and probably has a lot of Dakota school's alumni. Whats the venue?
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 24, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
A mini MVC/SL challenge. MSP is a cool city and probably has a lot of Dakota school's alumni. Whats the venue?
US Bank Stadium, site of the Final 4
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2018, 05:16:27 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 24, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
A mini MVC/SL challenge. MSP is a cool city and probably has a lot of Dakota school's alumni. Whats the venue?
US Bank Stadium, site of the Final 4
Isn't that a bit of overkill for a regular season matchup? Even if they get 10,000 in there it'll be empty.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 25, 2018, 08:56:36 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2018, 05:16:27 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 24, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
A mini MVC/SL challenge. MSP is a cool city and probably has a lot of Dakota school's alumni. Whats the venue?
US Bank Stadium, site of the Final 4
Isn't that a bit of overkill for a regular season matchup? Even if they get 10,000 in there it'll be empty.
They want to host a handful of games to prepare for the Final 4. Minnesota will also be playing Oklahoma State there this season.
Valpo is getting a lot of love on the SIU board. I hope they're right. Multiple posters there think we'll be top 3 this year and are pointing to the team's growth and maturity down the stretch as well as their sheer size as major reasons why.
https://saluki-insider.com/index.php/community/mbb-mbb/mvc-predictions/paged/2/#post-2576
Also it appears that Illinois State will release its nonconference schedule tomorrow and it promises to be a doozy. But it appears that they won't be playing VCU although I saw some rumors that they were.
Redbird Guard Elijah Clarence is foregoing his final three years of eligibility to turn pro following his strong showing for Sweden in the U20 Championships. This will be a blow to their second unit and long-term.
https://goredbirds.com/news/2018/7/30/mens-basketball-elijah-clarance-to-turn-professional.aspx
Mid-Major Madness weighs in on Illinois State's schedule. Take a look:
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/30/17630426/illinois-state-redbirds-missouri-valley-non-conference-schedule-2018-release-fgcu-byu
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 30, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Redbird Guard Elijah Clarence is foregoing his final three years of eligibility to turn pro following his strong showing for Sweden in the U20 Championships. This will be a blow to their second unit and long-term.
https://goredbirds.com/news/2018/7/30/mens-basketball-elijah-clarance-to-turn-professional.aspx
He was an outstanding talent and that is a big blow immediately. Because I'd rather see a strong MVC across the board, this is a gut punch. Seems like many European players are more interested in pay days than college degrees. Fair or not, that is my observation from our experience having nearly zero domestic players go pro early but numerous European / internationals do that. Samuel Haanpaa is one that comes to mind but I feel like there were more.
Throw in our transfer we bid for last year (New Zealand) who went out west and then turned pro. Just seems like there is more enthusiasm for non-NBA pro ball with internationals? Maybe it's because most domestic players think it's NBA or bust?
I don't think you can discount the role of homesickness as a factor either.
Option A: Go home and get paid right now and work my way up to better leagues while I develop against professionals Option B: Stay in America play for free and maybe get a better offer later while playing against people my own age which means I may not develop as fast.
Can't blame them for leaving. They can get the degree later.
I have no doubt that your statement on the thought processes of international players vs Americans Internationals have seen these leagues they've grown up in these leagues. They have a knowledge and a perspective on these leagues that most Americans don't. If it weren't for me being a Valpo fan I wouldn't even know that some of these countries even have professional leagues and I have family in Europe and have been there multiple times. Of course an American is more likely to think NBA or bust because that's the league we know and we're constantly told it's the best so joining any other league is a bit of a failure if you always dreamed of the NBA. Not only are the other leagues a chance for these guys to go home and get paid it's also a chance for them to be a star and a hero to their countrymen. They can build a brand and reach people in ways that wouldn't be possible playing on an American college team or even in the NBA.
Wow that is a crushing loss for the redbirds. He was really looking good in that u20 tournament. I'm sure some agents were in his ear on this decision. ISUr should still be strong this upcoming season but really hurts. He was going to be a big part of their future. ISUr has had some extremely tough luck with transfers and then now this. Muller has a eye for talent but he may not be taking into account commitment to the program in his recruitment of kids.
ISUr's schedule is very good on paper and also they are good mid-major matchups. The issue with RPI and NCAA review is that if that (looking at the schedule) results in 8-5, 7-6 or at best 9-4 coupled with a 10-8 or 11-7 conference record, then you are still on the outside looking in. They will get no credit for playing a tough pre-season schedule unless they bring home 10 preconference wins plus 12 or more conference wins. Unfair, yes; but reality.
I figured if healthy they could win 10 or 11 nonconference games but there are some big strikes against that now:
Abdou N'Diaye one of their prized freshman recruits may not be academically eligible
Elijah Clarance turned pro
And (I just read on MVC Fans) Tinsley Chastain and Fayne have all undergone knee surgery this offseason. Hopefully they'll all be able to start the year healthy; otherwise, their at-large chances will have taken a massive hit before the season even begins.
What an atmospheric change on this board from two years ago. Back then, the mood was darkness, frustration and disgust towards our league. There was, in particular, specific shade thown at individual conference teams, coaches , players and league related personalities. There was no esprit de corp (sp?) by HL teams and that included Valpo (maybe even less of it due to perceived slights). There wasn't even a viable HL board for goodness sakes. Nobody cared about each other.
Compare that to just the last few posts here. I see genuine concern for an opposing program because we all realize we (Valpo) are part of a larger whole and as our MVC comrades go, so do we. I'm kinda proud of how far we have progressed in so short a time. :thumbsup:
I'm reminded of the movie Ice Age: "It's what you do in a herd." (Cue someone good with Videos or pics to throw in one here). ;D
SIU gets in-season home and home with Buffalo. Sweet get. Barry might finally be understanding the virtues of better scheduling. This is a good year for them to go for it.
http://www.ubbulls.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule
Rumor has it that UNI is working to finalize a home and home with Missouri starting in Columbia. In the MVC things like this are possible it seems. Now it's up to Valpo to get stuff like this done.
Is there such a thing as a reverse buy game? By that I mean, to encourage a H&H series with a P5, we go there first and get the visitors cut of the gate (nothing great in terms of a payoff). Then the PF opponent comes to Valpo and they take home Valpo's home share of the gate (or even the entire gate after expenses). I know it's pocket change to these guys, but $$$$ is $$$$.
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 01, 2018, 06:40:56 PM
Is there such a thing as a reverse buy game? By that I mean, to encourage a H&H series with a P5, we go there first and get the visitors cut of the gate (nothing great in terms of a payoff). Then the PF opponent comes to Valpo and they take home Valpo's home share of the gate (or even the entire gate after expenses). I know it's pocket change to these guys, but $$$$ is $$$$.
Creative idea, but in this dollars and cents world I don't see how the mid-major would ever give up the gate revenue even if the environment it would create through increased attendance might lead to a valuable win.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2018, 07:00:35 PMWhat an atmospheric change on this board from two years ago. Back then, the mood was darkness, frustration and disgust towards our league. There was, in particular, specific shade thown at individual conference teams, coaches , players and league related personalities. There was no esprit de corp (sp?) by HL teams and that included Valpo (maybe even less of it due to perceived slights). There wasn't even a viable HL board for goodness sakes. Nobody cared about each other. Compare that to just the last few posts here. I see genuine concern for an opposing program because we all realize we (Valpo) are part of a larger whole and as our MVC comrades go, so do we. I'm kinda proud of how far we have progressed in so short a time. :thumbsup: I'm reminded of the movie Ice Age: "It's what you do in a herd." (Cue someone good with Videos or pics to throw in one here). ;D
I can answer that: I think there are several reasons why this is true: First, when a team dominates a league to the extent that Butler (9 regular season titles in 12 years from 2000-2011 or Valpo (5 titles in 6 years 2012-2017) dominated the Horizon League or Wichita State (5 titles in 6 years from 2012-2017) dominated the MVC it can create resentment on both sides between the dominant team and the rest of the league which can lead to fracturing. With no new dominant team established yet, it stands to reason that group cohesion will reign until such a program emerges. Another reason is that the fanbase is excited to be in a new, more prestigious conference with several schools we haven't played consistently or even at all in years--even decades. We haven't developed a rival yet. That should and will change. We are also now in a conference full of schools more similar to ours both on and off the court who are committed to excellence in both arenas. I think there's more respect for the pedigree and traditions of the MVC members as well there should be. Also, we haven't proven anything in the MVC yet. Plus, I think MVC membership has given our program new energy and life not only by giving us a chance to theoretically snag an at-large bid but also by showing us what is possible with Loyola's stunning transition from HL afterthought and also-ran to MVC top dog and tournament giant-killer. That also showed the strength and resiliency of the conference.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 01, 2018, 08:12:12 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2018, 07:00:35 PMWhat an atmospheric change on this board from two years ago. Back then, the mood was darkness, frustration and disgust towards our league. There was, in particular, specific shade thown at individual conference teams, coaches , players and league related personalities. There was no esprit de corp (sp?) by HL teams and that included Valpo (maybe even less of it due to perceived slights). There wasn't even a viable HL board for goodness sakes. Nobody cared about each other. Compare that to just the last few posts here. I see genuine concern for an opposing program because we all realize we (Valpo) are part of a larger whole and as our MVC comrades go, so do we. I'm kinda proud of how far we have progressed in so short a time. :thumbsup: I'm reminded of the movie Ice Age: "It's what you do in a herd." (Cue someone good with Videos or pics to throw in one here). ;D
I can answer that: I think there are several reasons why this is true: First, when a team dominates a league to the extent that Butler (9 regular season titles in 12 years from 2000-2011 or Valpo (5 titles in 6 years 2012-2017) dominated the Horizon League or Wichita State (5 titles in 6 years from 2012-2017) dominated the MVC it can create resentment on both sides between the dominant team and the rest of the league which can lead to fracturing. With no new dominant team established yet, it stands to reason that group cohesion will reign until such a program emerges. Another reason is that the fanbase is excited to be in a new, more prestigious conference with several schools we haven't played consistently or even at all in years--even decades. We haven't developed a rival yet. That should and will change. We are also now in a conference full of schools more similar to ours both on and off the court who are committed to excellence in both arenas. I think there's more respect for the pedigree and traditions of the MVC members as well there should be. Also, we haven't proven anything in the MVC yet. Plus, I think MVC membership has given our program new energy and life not only by giving us a chance to theoretically snag an at-large bid but also by showing us what is possible with Loyola's stunning transition from HL afterthought and also-ran to MVC top dog and tournament giant-killer. That also showed the strength and resiliency of the conference.
Well said, and I would add....give it time!!! If there's one thing humans excel at it's complaining! We just have to study out intended targets better for several years yet.
I should also add that MVC has begun to precipitate and hopefully will continue to precipitate many of the changes we fans have wanted for a long time to hopefully help move the program forward and keep it competitive and relevant. The league and its members are demanding and hopefully will continue to demand more and the administration appears to be rising to the challenge because they want to be competitive and keep the standard that has been set over the past 25 years alive. This only adds to our joy and optimism. I hope it all continues. Now it's up to us as fans to demand more of ourselves and keep it going. We need to show up stand up and get fired up during events. When we can we need to donate to important causes within the department, and just show our support for our teams and programs in whatever ways we can.
Loyola will be hosting Niagara as part of their tournament.
Mavericks sign Donte Ingram to exhibit 10 contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250901/Mavericks-Sign-Donte-Ingram-To-Exhibit-10-Contract
A primer on Exhibit 10 Contracts:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/07/hoops-rumors-glossary-exhibit-10-contract.html
Barry Hinson on his team's Cuba trip, Thik Bol's prospects for playing this year, and the in-season Buffalo home and home
https://siusalukis.com/watch/?Archive=3015&type=Live
His report on Thik Bol did not sound encouraging at all. I hope he plays because he's one of the players I was most excited about seeing Valpo go up against when we first joined the MVC.
Per MVCFans: Missouri State will travel to Corvallis to take on Oregon State this year and are supposedly working on a 2:1 with another P5 school.
Good article here. Pretty shameful dirty stuff by ESPN here.
http://www.tribstar.com/sports/todd-aaron-golden-isu-mvc-and-fans-lose-with-espn/article_b4bea5d7-99d0-55c2-9e36-097f8bf3eb5d.html
I know how we fans that are local can pay the school back for its investment... Attend more events... I already plan on attending more this year. I might get ESPN+ for road games but I'm undecided on that. It's really a shame because that money could have gone to the AC the PA system the rec center new dorms etc... I wonder if the MVC and other leagues will pull out of their agreements with ESPN in favor of more traditional partnerships or a different network\ app and possibly even sue ESPN over this.
Evansville is on KU transfer Sam Cunliffe's list. If they somehow landed him it would be huge for them!
https://twitter.com/GaryBedore/status/1 ... 7004528640
SIU beat the Cuban National Team 79-78. This is significant because Louisiana-Lafayette and Coastal Carolina recently went down there and went a combined 1-5. This could be a sign of how good the Salukis could be this coming year. I hope they do well. That school could use some good news and the Valley needs a strong SIU.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 02:40:51 PM
SIU beat the Cuban National Team 79-78. This is significant because Louisiana-Lafayette and Coastal Carolina recently went down there and went a combined 1-5. This could be a sign of how good the Salukis could be this coming year. I hope they do well. That school could use some good news and the Valley needs a strong SIU.
I don't think the victory merits significance, at least in comparison to Coastal Carolina and ULL, considering neither went down there this year. It's good that they won, because it does show that SIU should be a solid team, but to put things into context, last season when ULL went to Cuba and won their final game 70-64, Cuba had the 31st ranked team in the world. Currently they're ranked 62nd.
Evansville is getting a visit from Cunliffe this weekend. Would be a huge get from the Aces.
https://twitter.com/RyanJamesMN/status/1026554898316443649
In-depth local article on Missouri State's roster:
https://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2018/08/04/missouri-state-mens-basketball-roster-bears-head-coach-dana-ford/854719002/
UNI will play @Old Dominion as their non-bracketed game from the Paradise Jam.
http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31100&ATCLID=211767159
Bradley checks in at #91 on this year's list. I think they have a chance to be even better than that.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16482
Some interesting data to see laid out about Kenpom rankings. The MVC really beat the crap out of each other in conference play last season and it showed in the data and it ended up keeping everyone in that 120-155 range (other then LU). I strongly disagree that the MVC only had one Top 100 team. Kenpom is a useful data point but it definitely has it's flaws in it's formula.
https://twitter.com/peteybuckets/status/1027385178157731840
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
Evansville is getting a visit from Cunliffe this weekend. Would be a huge get from the Aces.
https://twitter.com/RyanJamesMN/status/1026554898316443649
Cunliffe is a major talent. Great athlete, potentially a very good shooter, and a good work ethic. He would be an outstanding get for Evansville, but I see him going to a program in a more high profile conference. The only reason he left Kansas is because of the overwhelming depth that they now have with their transfers becoming eligible and the recruiting class.
A good podcast with Illinois State coach Dan Muller. Some good Valley talk in here.
Podcast: Illinois State head coach Dan Muller previews the Redbirds and talks about the challenges of being a mid-major
The Redbirds could be the preseason favorite in the Missouri Valley
By Russell Steinberg@Russ_Steinberg
Aug 9, 2018, 8:48am PDT
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/8/9/17670458/mid-major-madness-podcast-illinois-state-dan-muller-season-preview-recruiting-missouri-valley
I like how he said this schedule was made with this year in mind and that it was a two year process. I love the foresight and planning. I think it will serve them well this year even though he admits that he overscheduled last year. This could be an example of his team losing some battles last year to win the war this year. More schools need to do this.
Just FYI: Belmont comes in at #89 on collegesportsmadness Top 144
Illinois State and Loyola are battling with Wichita State for Marquise Kennedy. Interestingly, two of his AAU teammates have already committed to Loyola.
https://twitter.com/scottybscout/status/1027986430981824513
Connor Hope's MVC Rankings:
https://twitter.com/CondorianFM/status/1027994791919771648
Pretty solid. Points of possible debate are 1-2 5-8 and 9-10.
Kennedy is a strong lean at this point for Loyola. Plays for Illinois Wolves run by Dan Mullins and his son Bryan is Moser's right hand. #UpperHand
I kinda figured as much with two of his AAU teammates already on board. Would be another strong get by Loyola. I see that Missouri State is trying to pull off a similar recruiting trifecta with another AAU team (Mokan I think). They have two commits from that team and a good shot at a third. Nice to see the MVC stocking up with plenty of talent going forward.
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on August 11, 2018, 10:27:55 PM
Kennedy is a strong lean at this point for Loyola. Plays for Illinois Wolves run by Dan Mullins and his son Bryan is Moser's right hand. #UpperHand
Nailed it.
I can't remember the last Illinois Wolves recruit we went after (Trevian Bell took a visit a few years ago and Ericke Locke was offered by VU back in 2012). I feel like we've been going after Meanstreet, Mokan, and George Hill Rising Stars guys in recent years. I've been wondering if having Eron Gordon part of the program might open some doors for Valpo to get noticed and get looks from kids down in Indy that normally wouldn't give VU a look. https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2014/02/24/gordons-develop-into-first-family-of-indianapolis-basketball/5776515/
Quote from: VU2014 on August 12, 2018, 12:10:52 AM
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on August 11, 2018, 10:27:55 PM
Kennedy is a strong lean at this point for Loyola. Plays for Illinois Wolves run by Dan Mullins and his son Bryan is Moser's right hand. #UpperHand
Nailed it.
I can't remember the last Illinois Wolves recruit we went after (Trevian Bell took a visit a few years ago and Ericke Locke was offered by VU back in 2012). I feel like we've been going after Meanstreet, Mokan, and George Hill Rising Stars guys in recent years. I've been wondering if having Eron Gordon part of the program might open some doors for Valpo to get noticed and get looks from kids down in Indy that normally wouldn't give VU a look. https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2014/02/24/gordons-develop-into-first-family-of-indianapolis-basketball/5776515/
Tried to learn more but only saw the Illinois Wolves est 1999. Fill the rest of us in, how do the IL Wolves compare to other IL AAU teams?
What's the pecking order?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 12, 2018, 06:34:02 AM
Tried to learn more but only saw the Illinois Wolves est 1999. Fill the rest of us in, how do the IL Wolves compare to other IL AAU teams?
What's the pecking order?
The Illinois Wolves are one of the better AAU programs in Illinois. They attract a lot of more rural/suburban kids and they are less high profile than Meanstreets and MacIrvin Fire, which attract more urban kids. MeanStreets & MIF consistently send kids to Power Conference schools. For the elite kids things can get political in recruitment of kids (ex: Talen Horton-Tucker & Ayo Dosunmu recruitment) and also shoe companies play a HUGE role in where elite kids play their college ball (ex: Romeo Langford to IU. If Vandy was an Adidas school they might have landed him).
The Top AAU programs in the state are: Meanstreets (JFL played for them), MacIrvin Fire, Illinois Wolves, All-In, Young & Reckless (we've recruited them pretty consistently and I know the coaches like one kid in particular from their 2020 class), Illinois Irish (AP played for them), Team Rose, etc.
It's important to have coaches that are respected and who can navigate the CPL circuit and Chicago AAU scene to successfully recruit Chicago. Coach Powell was very important to our programs success during Bryce's era and Coach Dildy was big for us last year. I'm not sure we'd land JFL without Coach Dildy. Hopefully with Coach Lottich, Coach Holloway and Coach Townsend we'll still be able to tap into the strong talent in Chicago.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 12, 2018, 11:01:34 AM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 12, 2018, 06:34:02 AM
Tried to learn more but only saw the Illinois Wolves est 1999. Fill the rest of us in, how do the IL Wolves compare to other IL AAU teams?
What's the pecking order?
The Illinois Wolves are one of the better AAU programs in Illinois. They attract a lot of more rural/suburban kids and they are less high profile than Meanstreets and MacIrvin Fire, which attract more urban kids. MeanStreets & MIF consistently send kids to Power Conference schools. For the elite kids things can get political in recruitment of kids (ex: Talen Horton-Tucker & Ayo Dosunmu recruitment) and also shoe companies play a HUGE role in where elite kids play their college ball (ex: Romeo Langford to IU. If Vandy was an Adidas school they might have landed him).
The Top AAU programs in the state are: Meanstreets (JFL played for them), MacIrvin Fire, Illinois Wolves, All-In, Young & Reckless (we've recruited them pretty consistently and I know the coaches like one kid in particular from their 2020 class), Illinois Irish (AP played for them), Team Rose, etc.
It's important to have coaches that are respected and who can navigate the CPL circuit and Chicago AAU scene to successfully recruit Chicago. Coach Powell was very important to our programs success during Bryce's era and Coach Dildy was big for us last year. I'm not sure we'd land JFL without Coach Dildy. Hopefully with Coach Lottich, Coach Holloway and Coach Townsend we'll still be able to tap into the strong talent in Chicago.
Thanks for clarifying the big picture of ILL recruiting/AAU.
FG05, the 3 Elite AAU / EYBL teams around Chicago are obviously Illinois Wolves, Meanstreets and Mac Irvin Fire. Meanstreets and The Fire focus on the CPL as well as top regional and downstate talent. The Wolves focus, it seems, is the Catholic schools, suburban and downstate kids. There are always exceptions but roster makeup is somewhat consistent to this approach.
I'd say as of recent it is Mac Irvin Fire getting some of the more elite recruits going forward. Started by the patriarch of the Irvin clan, Mac, they've been around since the late '90's. They are tied in tight with Morgan Park (obviously as Lance was most recent HC there), Simeon and more of the Southside CPL teams. While they always got top local and regional talent, it seems their scope is going nationally a bit more. They just had Khalil Whitney out of NJ sign with Kentucky. Saw his ranking skyrocket over the summer. He's a top 20 kid. Jabari Parker (Simeon), Jahlil Okafor (Whitney Young),Hardaway Jr. (HS in FL)
Meanstreets was the home for Javon Freeman Liberty and Xavier Castanedas (Whitney Young) to name a few. They have and some serious players come through like Derrick Rose (Simeon) and Anthony Davis (Perspectives Chicago). Webster Slaughter HC of Whitney Young has close ties to the program. I believe Tai Streets who played for the 49'ers and Michigan was an all-State basketball and football player at Thornton HS started the program in the early 2000's while still playing in the NFL.
Dan Mullins ran some successful summer camps before AAU took of and started his program in 1999like you said. His focus was primarily on suburban and Catholic kids and gets some quality downstate Is kids as well. As we've seen he has Tom Welch (Naperville North),Marquise Kennedy (Brother Rice) and Frank Jakubisec (Cary Grove) as current members. Some notable alumni I can recall are Bobby Fraser (Brother Rice), Frank kaminsky (Benet Academy), Evan Turner (St. Joe's Westchester) and Keita Bates Diop (University HS Normal, IL).
As far as local schools of interest / P6 schools. Obviously Loyola has a direct line to the Wolves. I think Mullins has a decent relationship with both Illinois and NU as well. I know JORDAN Ash and Barret Benson played under Mullins and are at NU. NU has had some success with Meanstreets getting Vic Law and I think Scottie Lindsey from them in recent years. Illinois is hit or miss with Meanstreets and the Fire. It all depends on who is hired as HC and even asssitants. Moreso with the Fire but if they don't like an Illinois hire within the coaching staff they will try and blacklist them with their kids. It works on some I must say. Seems Underwood may be making some inroads with both. DePaul has a BAD relationship with all but most with the Fire and the Wolves. Meanstreets kids will at least glance at them. The rest of the smaller local school staff get fair shakes at the remaining kids that don't garner major or high interest.
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on August 12, 2018, 11:40:34 AM
FG05, the 3 Elite AAU / EYBL teams around Chicago are obviously Illinois Wolves, Meanstreets and Mac Irvin Fire. Meanstreets and The Fire focus on the CPL as well as top regional and downstate talent. The Wolves focus, it seems, is the Catholic schools, suburban and downstate kids. There are always exceptions but roster makeup is somewhat consistent to this approach.
I'd say as of recent it is Mac Irvin Fire getting some of the more elite recruits going forward. Started by the patriarch of the Irvin clan, Mac, they've been around since the late '90's. They are tied in tight with Morgan Park (obviously as Lance was most recent HC there), Simeon and more of the Southside CPL teams. While they always got top local and regional talent, it seems their scope is going nationally a bit more. They just had Khalil Whitney out of NJ sign with Kentucky. Saw his ranking skyrocket over the summer. He's a top 20 kid. Jabari Parker (Simeon), Jahlil Okafor (Whitney Young),Hardaway Jr. (HS in FL)
Meanstreets was the home for Javon Freeman Liberty and Xavier Castanedas (Whitney Young) to name a few. They have and some serious players come through like Derrick Rose (Simeon) and Anthony Davis (Perspectives Chicago). Webster Slaughter HC of Whitney Young has close ties to the program. I believe Tai Streets who played for the 49'ers and Michigan was an all-State basketball and football player at Thornton HS started the program in the early 2000's while still playing in the NFL.
Dan Mullins ran some successful summer camps before AAU took of and started his program in 1999like you said. His focus was primarily on suburban and Catholic kids and gets some quality downstate Is kids as well. As we've seen he has Tom Welch (Naperville North),Marquise Kennedy (Brother Rice) and Frank Jakubisec (Cary Grove) as current members. Some notable alumni I can recall are Bobby Fraser (Brother Rice), Frank kaminsky (Benet Academy), Evan Turner (St. Joe's Westchester) and Keita Bates Diop (University HS Normal, IL).
As far as local schools of interest / P6 schools. Obviously Loyola has a direct line to the Wolves. I think Mullins has a decent relationship with both Illinois and NU as well. I know JORDAN Ash and Barret Benson played under Mullins and are at NU. NU has had some success with Meanstreets getting Vic Law and I think Scottie Lindsey from them in recent years. Illinois is hit or miss with Meanstreets and the Fire. It all depends on who is hired as HC and even asssitants. Moreso with the Fire but if they don't like an Illinois hire within the coaching staff they will try and blacklist them with their kids. It works on some I must say. Seems Underwood may be making some inroads with both. DePaul has a BAD relationship with all but most with the Fire and the Wolves. Meanstreets kids will at least glance at them. The rest of the smaller local school staff get fair shakes at the remaining kids that don't garner major or high interest.
Oddly enough, DePaul got a commitment today from 2019 Mac Irvin Fire Top 100 Terrance Shannon.
Per a Drake fan on MVCFans Drake has secured a 2019 commitment from Issa Samake a 6-7 forward from Mali who went to high school in Des Moines. He has a 7-5 wingspan and is developing good touch from 3 point range. Looks like a solid get for the Bulldogs. He was rumored to have an offer from Iowa State and also had an offer from Tulsa.
A piece on Aher Uguak of Loyola who may well play a big role for the Ramblers starting this coming season.
https://www.portersjacket.com/single-post/2018/07/08/Aher-Uguak-The-Ramblers-Best-Kept-Secret
I am amazed at how down SIU fans seem to be on their team which should be very good and finish in the top 3. Even more amazing is how bullish they appear to be on Valpo. I don't think many of us have them rated as highly as many Saluki fans do. I guess in the current hyper competitive MVC few fanbases want to step out on a limb and pronounce their team too highly for fear of being wrong.
https://saluki-insider.com/index.php/community/mbb-mbb/mvc-predictions/paged/2/#post-2855
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 11:30:23 PM
I am amazed at how down SIU fans seem to be on their team which should be very good and finish in the top 3. Even more amazing is how bullish they appear to be on Valpo. I don't think many of us have them rated as highly as many Saluki fans do. I guess in the current hyper competitive MVC few fanbases want to step out on a limb and pronounce their team too highly for fear of being wrong.
https://saluki-insider.com/index.php/community/mbb-mbb/mvc-predictions/paged/2/#post-2855
Need to take a macro view point of where they are coming from. SIU just 10 years was seen as a mid-major powerhouse and they have went through some considerable rough times since their peak. A lot of SIU fans have been down on the program for a while. Something also to consider is that SIU's enrollment has taken a hit the last few years, which might have their overall morale down about the University.
SIU enrollment 1991: 24,869
SIU enrollment 2014: 17,989
SIU enrollment 2016: 15,987
SIU enrollment 2017: 14,636
SIU Spring 2018: 13,350
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/siu/siu-s-spring-enrollment-mirrors-fall-decline-student-population-drops/article_e1d5691f-c404-5a2b-bfc5-500d2e14e221.html
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/communities/carbondale/siu-enrollment-drop-leads-to-m-loss/article_9bf0ace9-fe20-5aeb-ab0f-15ef9de0d308.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/illinois/articles/2018-02-02/southern-illinois-university-sees-drop-in-spring-enrollment
I thought Hinson did a heck of a job last season with all the injury and they should be pretty good this season as well. I think the x-factor for them will be Bol's health.
Nice analysis. Bol is definitely the key to their season. Agreed on Hinson's good work last year as well.
Wow. They actually landed Cunliffe. Huge get for UE. This could be a catalyst type player for them in this new era. He'll have to sit one but will have two years of eligibility remaining.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1029448344287019008
Quote from: VU2014 on August 14, 2018, 03:11:46 PM
Wow. They actually landed Cunliffe. Huge get for UE. This could be a catalyst type player for them in this new era. He'll have to sit one but will have two years of eligibility remaining.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1029448344287019008
Getting a talented player from Seattle Washington to come to Evansville is a huge get. If they keep this up (and McCarty shows himself a good in-game coach), Evansville is going to be scary good in a couple years.
Amazing. This is huge for McCarty and his staff and for Evansville's immediate and mid-term future. Never would have thought that they would land him over Lorenzo Romar at Pepperdine and also Xavier. So, the Aces score a big recruiting victory over the Musketeers. Now, let's see if they can do the same on the court this year.
Here's more good transfer news for UE:
https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2018/07/29/evansville-basketball-picks-up-guard-transfer-coastal-carolina/861280002/
Article on Indiana State: Their backcourt should be really good, the frontcourt is a question.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/sycamores-growing-toughness/
Quote from: VU2014 on August 14, 2018, 03:11:46 PM
Wow. They actually landed Cunliffe. Huge get for UE. This could be a catalyst type player for them in this new era. He'll have to sit one but will have two years of eligibility remaining.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1029448344287019008
Seems like he's a classic example of an indecisive young 20-something...3-colleges (Arizona State, Kansas and UE). That being said, I'm hoping he finds UE is a good landing spot.
Seems odd that he quickky transferred from ASU saying he was home sick and then lands at Kansas. Is that not similar distance from home or maybe worse?
Possibly a snap decision to transfer and when he (potentially) finds out that there is no good option out west then he goes to Kansas?
Some may know better, but can a "potential" transfer use any form of communication within the rules to see if a potential school he likes is open to his transfer (before declaring a transfer)? Or is this process so screwed up that this poor kid makes a judgment that ASU isn't to his liking and had to actual declare transferring before testing the waters? Thereby getting sorta screwed over by being a mid-season transfer?
SIU's nonconference schedule is pretty good provided all of the opponents play as expected.
Home:
Winthrop
Murray State
SLU
Buffalo
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Howard
Road:
SEMO
SIUE
Colorado State
Buffalo
Neutral:
UMASS
Nevada\Tulsa
One more game TBD
https://thesouthern.com/sports/college/ ... 6e537.html
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 02:08:28 AM
SIU's nonconference schedule is pretty good provided all of the opponents play as expected.
Home:
Winthrop
Murray State
SLU
Buffalo
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Howard
Road:
SEMO
SIUE
Colorado State
Buffalo
Neutral:
UMASS
Nevada\Tulsa
One more game TBD
https://thesouthern.com/sports/college/ ... 6e537.html
So this is their entire OOC schedule, meaning no non D-1 opponents (unless it's the TBD game)?
College basketballs Top 144 is now up to #84--St. Mary's who was 30-6 and went to NIT
Quote from: wh on August 15, 2018, 06:09:10 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 02:08:28 AMSIU's nonconference schedule is pretty good provided all of the opponents play as expected. Home: Winthrop Murray State SLU Buffalo Arkansas-Pine Bluff Howard Road: SEMO SIUE Colorado State Buffalo Neutral: UMASS Nevada\Tulsa One more game TBD https://thesouthern.com/sports/college/ ... 6e537.html
So this is their entire OOC schedule, meaning no non D-1 opponents (unless it's the TBD game)?
Yes. There are 4 easy games but I see 4-5 potential Q1s as well if everyone plays to their potential.
Indiana State has back to back in-state recruits in two days. Both are pretty good recruits. Barnes was getting high major interest last year but it tailed off. He sounds like a he a under radar prospect.
https://twitter.com/INPrep/status/1029763908746260482
Love it. Just makes for better games and a better league. Hopefully better results out of conference too. That will make all the in-conference cannibalization matter less.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 15, 2018, 11:36:56 AM
Indiana State has back to back in-state recruits in two days. Both are pretty good recruits. Barnes was getting high major interest last year but it tailed off. He sounds like a he a under radar prospect.
https://twitter.com/INPrep/status/1029763908746260482
I think Barnes could be a solid player for them, but I think to be under the radar, you have to have been off of the high major program's radar (like Hankins), which Barnes really wasn't, even though none of them offered him. Especially in a state like Indiana that is so ridiculously over-recruited by every league, if you play AAU, it's really hard to go unnoticed.
Personally I think this is more of the same in terms of the level of recruits for Indiana State, but it's really hard for the coaching staff to have a ton of success given their tiny budget (IUPUI and IPFW aren't far behind them), but I would be more than happy to be wrong.
ISUb has by far the lowest MBB budget in the MVC. It's actually more in-line with the OVC. They've increased their FB budget considerably in recent years which is bizarre. AD has things backwards over there.
Quote from: may know on August 15, 2018, 03:39:00 PM
ISUb has by far the lowest MBB budget in the MVC. It's actually more in-line with the OVC. They've increased their FB budget considerably in recent years which is bizarre. AD has things backwards over there.
I remember reading that their AD didn't pick up Lansing's option last season, so they aren't fully committed to the HC going forward.
I think ISUb is considerably underrated. They may not be a Top 5 contender this season because some of their key players will be young but they have recruited some nice under the radar players the last two years. Cooper Neese is going to be a stud and their PG already is. They also beat out VU for Deavion Washington's commitment. He was initially recruited by Coach Ragland while he was at ISUb way back. He's going to be a offensive stud in the MVC.
Really weird that ISUb would invest more $ in football. The MVC is a obviously basketball conference.
Yeah why invest in a sport where a school like ISU has no hope whatsoever of finishing higher than sixth let alone beating out NDSU. They should pivot toward basketball before the new dominant powers of the MVC (whoever they are) emerge. That would be their best path forward for them by far. Besides, Lansing has shown that he is a decent coach that can get wins. I think he'd do very well if he were properly supported.
Mid-major madness likes Evansville's direction.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/8/16/17693414/walter-mccarty-sam-cunliffe-evansville-aces-college-basketball-missouri-valley-recruiting-transfer
Big days coming up for SIU.
https://dailyegyptian.com/85546/showcase/illinois-house-higher-education-committee-to-hold-hearings-at-carbondale-edwardsville-regarding-siu-system/
QuoteOddly enough, DePaul got a commitment today from 2019 Mac Irvin Fire Top 100 Terrance Shannon.
That didn't take long. Can't say I'm surprised.
https://twitter.com/CBBToday/status/1031235746076786688
Wonder who's in play for him. Does this bode well for Loyola?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 19, 2018, 01:30:32 PM
Wonder who's in play for him. Does this bode well for Loyola?
The highest bidder.
You mean the NCAAhas once again fixed absolutely nothing? Imagine my surprise.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 19, 2018, 12:55:38 PM
QuoteOddly enough, DePaul got a commitment today from 2019 Mac Irvin Fire Top 100 Terrance Shannon.
That didn't take long. Can't say I'm surprised.
https://twitter.com/CBBToday/status/1031235746076786688
Me neither - we'll see if this winds up being another Tyger Campbell situation for DePaul.
Below is a list of players that committed to DePaul but ending up decommitting or transferring-out under Leitao's second run. This is under a three-year period (starting in March of 2015).
Austin Grandstaff - Transfer - 8/11/18
Brandon Cyrus - Transfer - 3/26/18
Oumar Barry - Transfer - 3/30/16
Tommy Hamilton - Transfer - 6/22/16
Develle Phillips - Transfer - 3/30/16
Frederick Scott - Transfer - 3/30/16
Al Eichelberger - Transfer - 6/2/17
Justin Roberts - Transfer - 6/1/18
Erten Gazi - Transfer - 4/10/17
Levi Cook - Transfer - 9/15/17
Tyger Campbell - DeCommits - 9/2/17
Terrence Shannon - DeCommits - 8/19/18
Tough to bring a program back when you can't establish a culture with your players. I get when there's a coaching change that players might feel a commitment to the old guard, but everyone except Tommy Hamilton committed at some point to play for Leitao.
Missouri State's nonconference slate is weak at home and strong on the road just like ours appears to be.
Evangel (Exhibition)
Oral Roberts
Robert Morris (CBE Classic)
Stetson (CBE Classic)
Nebraska (CBE Classic -Kansas City)
USC/Texas Tech (CBE Classic - Kansas City)
at Murray State
at Oregon State
Western Kentucky
at North Dakota State
at Arkansas State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
William Woods
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 20, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
Missouri State's nonconference slate is weak at home and strong on the road just like ours appears to be.
Evangel (Exhibition)
Oral Roberts
Robert Morris (CBE Classic)
Stetson (CBE Classic)
Nebraska (CBE Classic -Kansas City)
USC/Texas Tech (CBE Classic - Kansas City)
at Murray State
at Oregon State
Western Kentucky
at North Dakota State
at Arkansas State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
William Woods
We don't have a team of WKU's caliber coming to the ARC this season. Their home schedule could be stronger than ours...
Prepare yourselves for a very disappointing home schedule.
That is pathetic.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 20, 2018, 10:40:38 AM
Below is a list of players that committed to DePaul but ending up decommitting or transferring-out under Leitao's second run. This is under a three-year period (starting in March of 2015).
Austin Grandstaff - Transfer - 8/11/18
Brandon Cyrus - Transfer - 3/26/18
Oumar Barry - Transfer - 3/30/16
Tommy Hamilton - Transfer - 6/22/16
Develle Phillips - Transfer - 3/30/16
Frederick Scott - Transfer - 3/30/16
Al Eichelberger - Transfer - 6/2/17
Justin Roberts - Transfer - 6/1/18
Erten Gazi - Transfer - 4/10/17
Levi Cook - Transfer - 9/15/17
Tyger Campbell - DeCommits - 9/2/17
Terrence Shannon - DeCommits - 8/19/18
Tough to bring a program back when you can't establish a culture with your players. I get when there's a coaching change that players might feel a commitment to the old guard, but everyone except Tommy Hamilton committed at some point to play for Leitao.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 20, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
Missouri State's nonconference slate is weak at home and strong on the road just like ours appears to be.
Evangel (Exhibition)
Oral Roberts
Robert Morris (CBE Classic)
Stetson (CBE Classic)
Nebraska (CBE Classic -Kansas City)
USC/Texas Tech (CBE Classic - Kansas City)
at Murray State
at Oregon State
Western Kentucky
at North Dakota State
at Arkansas State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
William Woods
But...I'm guessing the North Dakota State, Arkansas State and Murray State games are the front end of a home and home.
I'm pretty sure Murray State is and I suspect that Arkansas State is. Not sure about North Dakota State
Quote from: VU2014 on August 20, 2018, 06:32:11 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 20, 2018, 05:36:35 PMMissouri State's nonconference slate is weak at home and strong on the road just like ours appears to be. Evangel (Exhibition) Oral Roberts Robert Morris (CBE Classic) Stetson (CBE Classic) Nebraska (CBE Classic -Kansas City) USC/Texas Tech (CBE Classic - Kansas City) at Murray State at Oregon State Western Kentucky at North Dakota State at Arkansas State Arkansas-Pine Bluff William Woods
We don't have a team of WKU's caliber coming to the ARC this season. Their home schedule could be stronger than ours... Prepare yourselves for a very disappointing home schedule.
Just how bad is bad? Like worse than last year (which was also awful)?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 20, 2018, 07:06:23 PMJust how bad is bad? Like worse than last year (which was also awful)?
I would say probably. :'( Ball St might be the only home non conference game I attend and watch them schedule it for a day and time where I can not go. :'( :'(
Starting in 2019 they REALLY need to take advantage of their MVC membership and make improving their nonconference home schedule a priority.
Wow. Look at all the talent flowing into the conference. Check out this tweet from the Evansville beat writer.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1031648978541137925
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 21, 2018, 02:13:07 AM
Wow. Look at all the talent flowing into the conference. Check out this tweet from the Evansville beat writer.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1031648978541137925
I'm not discounting that at least some of the guys on this list are going to play big roles at their respective MVC schools, but what makes the players on this list "talent"? The major conference transfers had good high school pedigrees but haven't necessarily produced at a high level, while the transfers from lesser leagues have likely produced, but in lesser leagues. The MVC also had 18 players transfer out during the year as well, and while it's a net positive if you look at high school rankings as the verbal commits listing does, I think if you re-ranked these prospects with the rest of the guys in their class in college basketball, guys with higher ratings like Silva (who was an extremely inefficient player for South Florida), and Gordon (who was a decent minimal bench piece for Seton Hall, but definitely didn't live up to his high school ranking, IMO) would take a hit.
Again, not questioning that the MVC is bringing in more talent through the transfer market than what is exiting through that same market (Ryan Taylor and Dru Smith were pretty good for Evansville), but I think for the majority of these guys (Josh Hall and Nick Robinson are exceptions to this, IMO), it's just a wait-and-see scenario that we won't know about until next year.
I also thought Cooper Neese was eligible this year for Indiana State once the first semester was over. I do wish the transfer rules were a little different in his case since he never suited up for Butler in a game that he didn't have to wait that long.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 21, 2018, 02:13:07 AMWow. Look at all the talent flowing into the conference. Check out this tweet from the Evansville beat writer. https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1031648978541137925
Does this mean with 5 players not eligible until 19-20, that Missouri State will only have 8 scholarship players available to play this year?
Regarding the Mo State schedule:
They will play P5 schools in a tournament in KANSAS CITY. Distance-wise that is like Valpo playing the same level tournament in MILWAUKEE.
The Myrtle Beach tourney is a nice move for Valpo. No complaints. But the Bears will be playing two big non-conf. games within 3 hours of their campus.
Quote from: VUBBFan on August 21, 2018, 12:13:16 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 21, 2018, 02:13:07 AMWow. Look at all the talent flowing into the conference. Check out this tweet from the Evansville beat writer. https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/1031648978541137925
Does this mean with 5 players not eligible until 19-20, that Missouri State will only have 8 scholarship players available to play this year?
You make a solid point, this can be seen as future investment in the league. If even 50% of these guys flash their high school brilliance that got them a P6 scholarship then I'd invest for that dividend! I don't recall seeing a list anything alike to this in the Horizon League or Summit/Mid-Con? Other than Oakland who had a stream of them, who else had the chops to consistently get P6 transfers? Sure Milwaukee and some other major city schools had some kids returning home for various reasons, but not more than a drip in a bucket.
Butler strikes me as a team that had the chops to get P6 transfers. Thoughts?
Jared Ridder & Josh Webster will be eligible for Missouri State this season.
letsgobears!
Quote from: letsgobears on August 21, 2018, 09:32:38 PMJared Ridder & Josh Webster will be eligible for Missouri State this season. letsgobears!
That makes more sense than having 5 guys sitting all at once for a year.
Article on Loyola's post-final four recruiting
https://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2018/08/21/chicago-high-school-basketball-recruiting/
https://twitter.com/hoopsnut351/status/1032642591240663041
SIU checks in at #76 in the Top 144 rankings.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16530
Salukis have just now released schedule: We play KENTUCKY on November 9 (Friday)--gulp! also play Buffalo twice and perhaps top ten Nevada--but some SIu fans will still b#tch, I'm afraid
SIU's schedule will be solid if their opponents play to their potential.
Here's the rub 13-14, IF they play to their potential. The same thing befalls Valpo, we need our OOC to hold serve to what we expect or do better. The new metric assumes close losses on the road equate to points gained. We have to make a good showing and we definitely need to beat Ball St. at home. Basically at worst we need to win all Home OOC games.
Loyola's run is being made into a documentary. It's simply amazing the amount of publicity a run like this can generate.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/four-sides-of-loyolas-run/
We got great exposure just making the Sweet 16 back in the day. Imagine if we had beaten URI and made the elite 8! Loyola (and Butler) show us what would have happened if we had gone even farther. Congratulations Loyola. You deserve all this.
A nice commitment for SIU. It was rumored that the Valpo Coaching Staff had some interest last year. He's a 2019 commit. The have 5 more scholarships available for that class. Both SIU and Valpo are recruiting Chris Payton, who is VU's priority recruit.
https://twitter.com/LanceBuckets/status/1033136452601880581
Article on Loyola's future.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/whats-next-for-loyola/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 25, 2018, 02:38:51 AMArticle on Loyola's future. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/whats-next-for-loyola/
Good article--but just one caveat for all teams--never really know how you will play till you see how new guys mix with vets and how other teams improved--just remember in 2016-17 the same Custer and Loyola team lost three games in a row to SIU--a lot of that had to do with Bol guarding the rim-- I can't wait to see Krutwig vs Bol
I do think that the absence of Bol played a big role in our performance against Southern Illinois. I am interested to see how the games go with him healthy and in action. I suspect they will be much tougher.
Buffalo comes in at #74 in the rankings.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16536
Drake had a big recruit day. They landed 2 recruits today and now have 3 commits for the class of 2019.
http://verbalcommits.com/schools/drake
Glad to see Drake picking up the pieces and recruiting well.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 27, 2018, 12:03:36 AM
Glad to see Drake picking up the pieces and recruiting well.
They put out offers to 13 2-star players and 2 3-Star players. 1 of the 2 3-stars and 2 of the 13 2-stars have committed. I'm not sure how much we can glean from that.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 26, 2018, 10:15:22 PM
Drake had a big recruit day. They landed 2 recruits today and now have 3 commits for the class of 2019.
http://verbalcommits.com/schools/drake
Holy cow - 5'11, 215 lbs point guard (Joseph Yesufu)? Kid is built like a tank. Drake still has 2 spots open for the 2019 class, and this is starting to get into the time of year where a bunch of guys are going to start coming off the board. Based on their ratings, not an abnormal haul for Drake, so we'll see what happens.
Quote from: wh on August 27, 2018, 12:46:18 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 27, 2018, 12:03:36 AMGlad to see Drake picking up the pieces and recruiting well.
They put out offers to 13 2-star players and 2 3-Star players. 1 of the 2 3-stars and 2 of the 13 2-stars have committed. I'm not sure how much we can glean from that.
Both players are top 20 in the state of Illinois apparently.
Maybe some are sleeping on Illinois State in the national media, but nobody within the conference is sleeping on them. They will be a force in the MVC this season.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1034091503348604928
Loyola will start a home and home with Ball State this year. At this point I think Ball State should just become an MVC member. They're the fourth MVC team they'll play this year I think.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1034098885608841217
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 27, 2018, 10:43:47 AM
Loyola will start a home and home with Ball State this year. At this point I think Ball State should just become an MVC member. They're the fourth MVC team they'll play this year I think.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1034098885608841217
As long as it doesn't come at the expense of our series with them then good for them. Let's see if the LU and BSU coaches can manage to schedule those games when students are on campus...
SIU may pick up late frontliner for 2018---6-8 230 pound Sekou Dembele of Birmingham, Alabama's Central Park Christian School is enrolled at SIU now--no official announcement yet--probably will take Jimmy Beane's 2018 scholie. Jimmy is enrolled on his own dime now and will get a 2019 scholie (Darius Beane, the SIU Assistant coaches' son is on the roster already--Jimmy is his cousin)
Quote from: VU2014 on August 27, 2018, 11:34:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 27, 2018, 10:43:47 AMLoyola will start a home and home with Ball State this year. At this point I think Ball State should just become an MVC member. They're the fourth MVC team they'll play this year I think. https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1034098885608841217
As long as it doesn't come at the expense of our series with them then good for them. Let's see if the LU and BSU coaches can manage to schedule those games when students are on campus...
If it comes out that the Loyola and Valpo games are on the same trip then I see no good reason why we can't have St Joseph's who will be in Chicagoin 19-20 on our schedule. Teams like connecting games on road trips to make them worthwhile. Therefore every time Loyola gets an interesting series we should be on the phone gauging their interest in starting something with Valpo.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 27, 2018, 07:51:31 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 27, 2018, 11:34:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 27, 2018, 10:43:47 AMLoyola will start a home and home with Ball State this year. At this point I think Ball State should just become an MVC member. They're the fourth MVC team they'll play this year I think. https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1034098885608841217
As long as it doesn't come at the expense of our series with them then good for them. Let's see if the LU and BSU coaches can manage to schedule those games when students are on campus...
If it comes out that the Loyola and Valpo games are on the same trip then I see no good reason why we can't have St Joseph's who will be in Chicagoin 19-20 on our schedule. Teams like connecting games on road trips to make them worthwhile. Therefore every time Loyola gets an interesting series we should be on the phone gauging their interest in starting something with Valpo.
That would be a good series. Having Nick Robinson on the active roster would make for a interesting storyline if they could make it work out.
Loyola's schedule is a lot like Valpo's. A pretty solid road\neutral slate with an underwhelming home slate outside of Nevada. To be honest, this schedule makes me feel much better about our own. They're going to need to win pretty much all of their big games to be in the at-large conversation.
https://loyolaramblers.com/news/2018/8/27/loyola-mens-basketball-reveals-challenging-2018-19-non-conference-schedule.aspx?path=mbball
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 28, 2018, 01:38:25 AM
Loyola's schedule is a lot like Valpo's. A pretty solid road\neutral slate with an underwhelming home slate outside of Nevada. To be honest, this schedule makes me feel much better about our own. They're going to need to win pretty much all of their big games to be in the at-large conversation.
https://loyolaramblers.com/news/2018/8/27/loyola-mens-basketball-reveals-challenging-2018-19-non-conference-schedule.aspx?path=mbball
I don't think Loyola's is that similar to Valpo's. Their hard games (at least using last year as a judgement) aren't nearly as difficult, especially given that they get Nevada at home. Other than Nevada and possibly Maryland, there isn't an at-large team on their schedule. Valpo's got West Virginia (possibly twice), WKU and Texas A&M either at a neutral site or on the road, and maybe even UCF depending on how the bracket falls. Loyola's schedule is very similar to last year's when they had Boise State and Florida and they had to win the MVC tournament in order to get into the tournament.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 28, 2018, 07:16:01 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 28, 2018, 01:38:25 AM
Loyola's schedule is a lot like Valpo's. A pretty solid road\neutral slate with an underwhelming home slate outside of Nevada. To be honest, this schedule makes me feel much better about our own. They're going to need to win pretty much all of their big games to be in the at-large conversation.
https://loyolaramblers.com/news/2018/8/27/loyola-mens-basketball-reveals-challenging-2018-19-non-conference-schedule.aspx?path=mbball
I don't think Loyola's is that similar to Valpo's. Their hard games (at least using last year as a judgement) aren't nearly as difficult, especially given that they get Nevada at home. Other than Nevada and possibly Maryland, there isn't an at-large team on their schedule. Valpo's got West Virginia (possibly twice), WKU and Texas A&M either at a neutral site or on the road, and maybe even UCF depending on how the bracket falls. Loyola's schedule is very similar to last year's when they had Boise State and Florida and they had to win the MVC tournament in order to get into the tournament.
I tried going through pre-season rankings and RPI and others and it's just a mess. Suffice it to say that neither team is killing it with their scheduling. Undoubtedly Loyola had some Home-and-Homes already scheduled pre-Final Four so they were locked into some of those contracts. Has anyone been on the Loyola fan forums and heard their feelings about their schedule? I am guessing there is a lot of gripping and complaining as this board does most years.
Actually no they say it's better than they've had in years (and it probably is). I'm just not sure if it's at large wprthy which is disappointing given where their program is now.
http://www.ramblermania.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2377&start=140
And I would also 2nd the idea that we have more high-end competition on our schedule than Loyola in this particular year. Their home games are sizably better but our neutral court / road games are a good deal tougher.
One thing I cannot help but consider is how does the "next generation" of Valpo fan gets hooked. The way I see it there are only a couple sources of "next generation" fans:
A) Students / Alumni
B) Townies
In category (A) the home game slate (OOC) is important to getting them excited for the team but the MVC home games will do that alone. So I would argue that the home OOC is not as important for category (A). This category wants Thursday, Friday and Saturday night games exclusively. Heck include me here too!
Now in category (B) I think the home (OOC) slate is of sizable importance. And I am starting to come around to some POV of posters on this forum. What other reasons should category (B) "next generation" fans have to come to Valpo home OCC games others other than quality competition with name brands they recognize?
And if I were to assign % of fans at home games, I would say category (A) is probably 35% and category (B) is closer 65% of ticket holders at most home games. So to 65% of our fan base name brand OOC home games are paramount to engagement.
Note: I am not including road team fans in these "highly scientific" numbers.
Yeah there's no way the gaudy attendance numbers for Florida State St Mary's Rhode Island Butler and other big HL games in the past and Loyola last year were student\alumni driven. The program NEEDS the local community to be excited and engaged and that requires 1. A slate of goodwell-respected recognizable opponents and\or 2. A Valpo team in contention for a league title and\or an at-large bid. This schedule doesn't pack the gear not only in terms of opponents but the dates as well. People will come out mid-week for Utah State Belmont Rhode Island St Mary's or Florida State, but teams like we've got on our homes schedule this year need FRI-SUN dates to have a prayer of reaching 3000. If we stub our toe in one of these games or get off to a slow start in conference play, Heaven help us. We need 1-2 big non-con wins badly.
I'd argue that the quality of the Home OOC is becoming increasingly important to category A. Students aren't dumb and they see who on schedule and non-d1 is a somewhat tough sell even though it's their team who playing them and they can get into the games for free. When you are trying to get the student body to develop a habit to attending games, you don't want to lead D3 school that nobody has ever heard of and is such a blowout (or at least should be) that it doesn't create much in game excitement.
The athletics department really should be aiming to make the attendance of the MBB games a habit by the time the Conference season comes around. For die-hard fans we will come support the team no matter what, but for potential new fans (students) the passion hasn't been built yet. There are so many entertainment options that both the students and surrounding community have access to these days.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2018, 10:16:50 AM
I'd argue that the quality of the Home OOC is becoming increasingly important to category A. Students aren't dumb and they see who on schedule and non-d1 is a somewhat tough sell even though it's their team who playing them and they can get into the games for free. When you are trying to get the student body to develop a habit to attending games, you don't want to lead D3 school that nobody has ever heard of and is such a blowout (or at least should be) that it doesn't create much in game excitement.
The athletics department really should be aiming to make the attendance of the MBB games a habit by the time the Conference season comes around. For die-hard fans we will come support the team no matter what, but for potential new fans (students) the passion hasn't been built yet. There are so many entertainment options that both the students and surrounding community have access to these days.
As I noted in a previous post, the only D-1 games on the nonconference schedule while students are in town don't occur until the end of the semester, Dec. 2 & Dec. 4, within a 3-day period during the busiest week when papers are due and just before final exams. Therefore, during the whole Fall semester, students have only a 3-day window to watch a D-1 nonconference game at the ARC. Difficult, and maybe impossible, to build momentum of fan support with this schedule.
Quote from: valpopal on August 28, 2018, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2018, 10:16:50 AM
I'd argue that the quality of the Home OOC is becoming increasingly important to category A. Students aren't dumb and they see who on schedule and non-d1 is a somewhat tough sell even though it's their team who playing them and they can get into the games for free. When you are trying to get the student body to develop a habit to attending games, you don't want to lead D3 school that nobody has ever heard of and is such a blowout (or at least should be) that it doesn't create much in game excitement.
The athletics department really should be aiming to make the attendance of the MBB games a habit by the time the Conference season comes around. For die-hard fans we will come support the team no matter what, but for potential new fans (students) the passion hasn't been built yet. There are so many entertainment options that both the students and surrounding community have access to these days.
As I noted in a previous post, the only D-1 games on the nonconference schedule while students are in town don't occur until the end of the semester, Dec. 2 & Dec. 4, within a 3-day period during the busiest week when papers are due and just before final exams. Therefore, during the whole Fall semester, students have only a 3-day window to watch a D-1 nonconference game at the ARC. Difficult, and maybe impossible, to build momentum of fan support with this schedule.
THIS IS MIND BLOWING TO ME. >:( >:( >:(
It's literally setting ourselves up for failure/disappointment when it comes to student turnout. How does this athletics department expect to create the next generation of fans and passionate alumni when you serve them a crap home schedule? When these students who haven't seen a single quality opponent at the ARC during the Fall semester a come back from Winter Break the majority of them will be active in Fraternity/Sorority rushing that first month back.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/1ce06eaa1d692b3783a5e32451459d2d/tenor.gif?itemid=9985552)
I'd say it would apply to the general surrounding area/ "townie" population as well. After the holidays, major conference teams start their conference schedule too. I'd venture to say the "average college basketball fan" would travel an hour to notre dame to see them play duke/unc or to Purdue to see them play Michigan state or Wisconsin before driving 30ish minutes to Valpo to see them play Illinois state/indiana state.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 28, 2018, 09:20:23 AM
Actually no they say it's better than they've had in years (and it probably is). I'm just not sure if it's at large wprthy which is disappointing given where their program is now.
http://www.ramblermania.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2377&start=140
Which is where, exactly? They averaged 2400 fans at their home games last year, a year in which they were really good. They averaged 1860 fans the year before. They wouldn't have been an at-large team last year and hadn't made the tournament in 33 years before last season. Even with the F4 run, things aren't going to change overnight. They'll sell more tickets this year for sure, and may resonate with more recruits (doesn't mean they'll get them, but they'll at least have heard of them) but they aren't going to go from 2400 attendance to standing room only at every home game. Their program got a ton of exposure, but they still play in a small (albeit nice) arena in a city that hasn't cared about college basketball in decades. They aren't going to grab major conference opponents from one great run, and really if it weren't for the MVC/MWC challenge, they may not have even gotten a game with Nevada.
They can get there, but like I continue to say, it's going to take time and consistency in making the tournament and winning games in the tournament. We'll see if they can get there.
Drake's non-con is out and it's not too bad for their rebuilding situation.
https://godrakebulldogs.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
Another gut punch for the Redbirds.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/1034968575574986754
Great interview with Porter Moser by Jon Rothstein
https://soundcloud.com/compass-media/college-hoops-today-with-jon-rothstein-loyola-chicagos-porter-moser
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 30, 2018, 01:53:41 PM
Another gut punch for the Redbirds.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/1034968575574986754
Not too much of a gut punch because most people thought he was going to be red-shirted. It's not like when the NCAA made an @$$ of themselves by not giving Keith Carter his 4th year. That was a real gut punch because there was quite a bit of optimism that he'd get a approval from the NCAA. Keith got a really raw deal.
I meant from the standpoint of their at-large hopes. This certainly won't help.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 30, 2018, 03:13:50 PM
I meant from the standpoint of their at-large hopes. This certainly won't help.
If they need to rely on freshman to push them over the top it probably wasn't going to happen anyways. But it probably would have been nice to have that extra depth. I've heard Matt Chastain (Loyola transfer to ISUr) is still not totally healthy, which could be a cause for concern. It really will come down to the Top 3 guys for them and getting the most out of the rest of the roster. I'll be curious how Taylor Bruninga looks this season. He flirted with Valpo and took a unofficial while AP was still here. We never ended up offering.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 30, 2018, 11:59:10 AM
Drake's non-con is out and it's not too bad for their rebuilding situation.
https://godrakebulldogs.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
Better than not bad.
What can the NCAA do about this? How are they going to address this? It's ridiculous.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/loyola-chicagos-non-con-schedule-is-lacking-because-other-coaches-were-wrongly-afraid-to-schedule-the-ramblers/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 01, 2018, 05:00:29 AM
What can the NCAA do about this? How are they going to address this? It's ridiculous.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/loyola-chicagos-non-con-schedule-is-lacking-because-other-coaches-were-wrongly-afraid-to-schedule-the-ramblers/
That's two years in a row a MVC coach put P6 on notice for scheduling like whimps (Illinois State last year). Both years the national media gave us a platform.
TBD if national media coverage changes hearts and minds but it's good we are getting the coverage I suppose.
Problem is where is the voting stock? It's in the puppet NCAA's hands run by P6 and it's a monopoly. It would take a miracle or poor NCAA March Madness revenues for a change to occur. It would seem no number of media "hit pieces" can dent the P5 resolve to maintain revenue control.
Sadly I think this is woe-is-me that won't be heard. If MVC keeps slamming scheduling then they will get a bad name for what few games we can schedule that remain.
P6 steal our grad transfers and especially our coaches and you'd think we'd infiltrate their ranks to where coaches would schedule the mid majors where they cut their teeth. But it's clear that a combination of P6 conference commissioners / ADs and their new found elite position wipe out any good will.
Let's settle in for neutral site / tournaments as our only P6 games for years to come.
Unsurprisingly Valpo is flying under the radar going into this season.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1035890026226298880
That's just fine. Our time will come. I'm actually really rooting for those three to tear it up this year and establish the conference on solid footing going into our expected contention window. If we can avoid being a Thursday team this year I'll be very happy. Anything in the top 8 and I'm not upset. This conference is tough and we need to understand respect and be prepared for that fact.Expectations can shift wildly year to year though.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 01, 2018, 09:47:07 AM
That's just fine. Our time will come. I'm actually really rooting for those three to tear it up this year and establish the conference on solid footing going into our expected contention window. If we can avoid being a Thursday team this year I'll be very happy. Anything in the top 8 and I'm not upset. This conference is tough and we need to understand respect and be prepared for that fact.Expectations can shift wildly year to year though.
I'm hoping and expecting we finish no lower than 6th in the conference.
Illinois State claims the #66 ranking in the Top 144 Projected NIT team.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16556
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 28, 2018, 09:01:08 AMHas anyone been on the Loyola fan forums and heard their feelings about their schedule? I am guessing there is a lot of gripping and complaining as this board does most years.
In the past Loyola only had about 5 posters on their board during their time in the HL. I assume that has changed or another board has sprung up as the board with the most traffic. I haven't checked in a long, long time.
EDIT: same Ramblermania message board with swellafelon posting the most but now he has been joined by a large group of other posters. I wonder how many are brand new............ hmmmmmm?
Quote from: bbtds on September 04, 2018, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 28, 2018, 09:01:08 AMHas anyone been on the Loyola fan forums and heard their feelings about their schedule? I am guessing there is a lot of gripping and complaining as this board does most years.
In the past Loyola only had about 5 posters on their board during their time in the HL. I assume that has changed or another board has sprung up as the board with the most traffic. I haven't checked in a long, long time.
EDIT: same Ramblermania message board with swellafelon posting the most but now he has been joined by a large group of other posters. I wonder how many are brand new............ hmmmmmm?
It appears a lot of them are new but have been lurking around for a while. I know we have quite a few people who have accounts that login in to read the board but never comment. Would love to hear everyones thoughts & opinions about the team! No need to be shy. We value everyones opinions around here.
SIU enrollment continues in free fall
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/siu/despite-biggest-enrollment-dip-yet-siuc-chancellor-predicts-rebound/article_42dcccf9-f1a4-531b-9e12-10ae15b0ec5f.html#comments
Clearly, there is an over abundance of traditional universities in the United States. If SIU were a for-profit business, they would have closed their doors by now. The same for Chicago State. Instead, IL taxpayers continue to be forced to fund what has become an irreversible boondoggle. The day is coming when tax rates will reach the tipping point, the public will say no more, banks will stop loaning, bonds won't be purchased, and everything will come crashing down.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 01, 2018, 05:00:29 AM
What can the NCAA do about this? How are they going to address this? It's ridiculous.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/loyola-chicagos-non-con-schedule-is-lacking-because-other-coaches-were-wrongly-afraid-to-schedule-the-ramblers/
CBS podcast addresses the Loyola scheduling situation this week (along with other stuff). Available on iTunes and wherever else you may get your podcasts. I usually listen here https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/e/56113490?autoplay=true (https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/e/56113490?autoplay=true)
Quote from: wh on September 05, 2018, 01:26:16 PM
SIU enrollment continues in free fall
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/siu/despite-biggest-enrollment-dip-yet-siuc-chancellor-predicts-rebound/article_42dcccf9-f1a4-531b-9e12-10ae15b0ec5f.html#comments
Clearly, there is an over abundance of traditional universities in the United States. If SIU were a for-profit business, they would have closed their doors by now. The same for Chicago State. Instead, IL taxpayers continue to be forced to fund what has become an irreversible boondoggle. The day is coming when tax rates will reach the tipping point, the public will say no more, banks will stop loaning, bonds won't be purchased, and everything will come crashing down.
This is alarming for the future of the MVC The conference is much better when SIU is good and even Murray State our leading on deck school is having issues with enrollment. The way forward for the conference may be to simply continue to play the Loyola lottery and take a chance on a big enrollment big endowment school
Quote from: wh on September 05, 2018, 01:26:16 PM
SIU enrollment continues in free fall
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/siu/despite-biggest-enrollment-dip-yet-siuc-chancellor-predicts-rebound/article_42dcccf9-f1a4-531b-9e12-10ae15b0ec5f.html#comments
Clearly, there is an over abundance of traditional universities in the United States. If SIU were a for-profit business, they would have closed their doors by now. The same for Chicago State. Instead, IL taxpayers continue to be forced to fund what has become an irreversible boondoggle. The day is coming when tax rates will reach the tipping point, the public will say no more, banks will stop loaning, bonds won't be purchased, and everything will come crashing down.
It's actually not the banks that are dishing out most of the loans. It's the Federal government that is possibly creating a bubble. There is a direct correlation between the increased student loans back by the government and rapid rise in tuition prices. College isn't for everyone but it's become common place to pressure 17-18 year old kids to take out this massive student loans to pursue a education. I think the trade schools and community colleges are under utilized in this country.
Quote from: wh on September 05, 2018, 01:26:16 PM
SIU enrollment continues in free fall
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/siu/despite-biggest-enrollment-dip-yet-siuc-chancellor-predicts-rebound/article_42dcccf9-f1a4-531b-9e12-10ae15b0ec5f.html#comments
Clearly, there is an over abundance of traditional universities in the United States. If SIU were a for-profit business, they would have closed their doors by now. The same for Chicago State. Instead, IL taxpayers continue to be forced to fund what has become an irreversible boondoggle. The day is coming when tax rates will reach the tipping point, the public will say no more, banks will stop loaning, bonds won't be purchased, and everything will come crashing down.
1133 incoming Freshmen undergraduates? I don't know what is more alarming, that number or the response of SIU's chancellor that "we're on the right track and things will right themselves soon."
I am not sure that I agree with the degree of there being an overabundance of traditional universities as you seem to argue. Some schools are reporting record numbers of incoming Freshmen (e.g., Marquette) while others seem to ride the growth opportunities afforded to them by poorly run adjacent states (i.e. Iowa and Iowa State seem to thrive at the expense of Illinois public universities). Thus, I would argue that it is more of a competitive environment in which strong players work to increase market share and, thus, weaker players decline or die. Illinois' poorly run state government has resulted in fewer resources that allow its state universities to compete.
A few other notes on the weak Illinois state university system (other than the beyond awful Chicago State):
-Eastern Illinois reported a 24.5% increase in year-over-year new Freshmen enrollment. Wow! That sounds great - but it is highly misleading. 24.5% represents a 155 student year-over-year increase - meaning that EIU's total new Freshmen population is 775 students out of an undergraduate student population of about 6000. That looks like a university in serious decline.
-Western Illinois has not reported Fall 2018 enrollment, but they projected a 14% drop in total enrollment versus Fall 2017 after a 9% drop in total enrollment from Fall 2016 to Fall 2017.
Quote from: vu84v2 on September 05, 2018, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: wh on September 05, 2018, 01:26:16 PM
SIU enrollment continues in free fall
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/siu/despite-biggest-enrollment-dip-yet-siuc-chancellor-predicts-rebound/article_42dcccf9-f1a4-531b-9e12-10ae15b0ec5f.html#comments
Clearly, there is an over abundance of traditional universities in the United States. If SIU were a for-profit business, they would have closed their doors by now. The same for Chicago State. Instead, IL taxpayers continue to be forced to fund what has become an irreversible boondoggle. The day is coming when tax rates will reach the tipping point, the public will say no more, banks will stop loaning, bonds won't be purchased, and everything will come crashing down.
1133 incoming Freshmen undergraduates? I don't know what is more alarming, that number or the response of SIU's chancellor that "we're on the right track and things will right themselves soon."
I am not sure that I agree with the degree of there being an overabundance of traditional universities as you seem to argue. Some schools are reporting record numbers of incoming Freshmen (e.g., Marquette) while others seem to ride the growth opportunities afforded to them by poorly run adjacent states (i.e. Iowa and Iowa State seem to thrive at the expense of Illinois public universities). Thus, I would argue that it is more of a competitive environment in which strong players work to increase market share and, thus, weaker players decline or die. Illinois' poorly run state government has resulted in fewer resources that allow its state universities to compete.
A few other notes on the weak Illinois state university system (other than the beyond awful Chicago State):
-Eastern Illinois reported a 24.5% increase in year-over-year new Freshmen enrollment. Wow! That sounds great - but it is highly misleading. 24.5% represents a 155 student year-over-year increase - meaning that EIU's total new Freshmen population is 775 students out of an undergraduate student population of about 6000. That looks like a university in serious decline.
-Western Illinois has not reported Fall 2018 enrollment, but they projected a 14% drop in total enrollment versus Fall 2017 after a 9% drop in total enrollment from Fall 2016 to Fall 2017.
It's more than simply a game of musical chairs, although that's a part:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-colleges-are-facing-a-demographic-and-existential_us_59511619e4b0326c0a8d09e9
This is off topic but I think Illinois's bloated state system in similar to Indiana's massive amount of small private colleges al la Trine or St. Joes. Only sustainable with stable input. It's said to see any school systems close but like anything they grow to meet demand and when demand shrinks they will most likely shrink. To say that it's related to specifically Illinois' governance is missing that it's happening elsewhere There is going to be a lot of realignment for colleges in the next 5-10 years (unless another recession pops up, in which case watch graduate enrollments soar again) and although individual and state differences matter at the margins. I think this is a behemoth that will not be easily avoided.
There are rumors Ivy Tech in Indiana is in deep trouble and even Purdue is having trouble maintaining all of it's satellite campus but have also invested so much money in them over the years there is no easy answer.
Quote from: vu84v2 on September 05, 2018, 02:24:24 PM
1133 incoming Freshmen undergraduates? I don't know what is more alarming, that number or the response of SIU's chancellor that "we're on the right track and things will right themselves soon."
Or, how about this one:
The enrollment decline at the Carbondale campus was expected, Chancellor Carlo Montemagno said in a Tuesday news release, as the graduating senior class was replaced by a much smaller group of freshmen.That's kind of like my wife asking me why we received an overdraft notice on our checking account, and I say it's because we withdrew more than we deposited. ;)
Porter Moser interview with Doug Gottlieb
https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2018-09-05-porter-moser-will-sing-take-me-out-to-the-ballgame-at-wrigley/
Illinois State and Loyola figure very prominently among key mid-major matchups.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/9/6/17827774/ncaa-tournament-2019-at-large-mid-major-loyola-chicago-nevada-byu-gonzaga
Another redbird in trouble with the law.
https://twitter.com/WZND/status/1039873190238060544
There's a whole string already posted on this in the MVC category - Around the Valley
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3235.0
You might want to post the Twitter link there and delete it here.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 13, 2018, 08:38:31 AM
Another redbird in trouble with the law.
https://twitter.com/WZND/status/1039873190238060544
This is one of the few benefits of being in a mid-major league and being able to operate in relative obscurity. Other than those in the MVC, few, if anyone will know about these several incidents that he's been involved in and allowed to continue to play. I can't imagine Dan Muller actually kicking his best player off the team, because that would basically destroy his chances of making the NCAA tournament.
Glad that Valpo, if anything, swings too far the other way on off-the-court player issues.
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 13, 2018, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 13, 2018, 08:38:31 AM
Another redbird in trouble with the law.
https://twitter.com/WZND/status/1039873190238060544
This is one of the few benefits of being in a mid-major league and being able to operate in relative obscurity. Other than those in the MVC, few, if anyone will know about these several incidents that he's been involved in and allowed to continue to play. I can't imagine Dan Muller actually kicking his best player off the team, because that would basically destroy his chances of making the NCAA tournament.
Glad that Valpo, if anything, swings too far the other way on off-the-court player issues.
Good points. If memory serves, you are a Butler fan? Has there been instances with Butler (post HL days) in where they had to discipline a player because it became too big of a news story?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 13, 2018, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 13, 2018, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 13, 2018, 08:38:31 AM
Another redbird in trouble with the law.
https://twitter.com/WZND/status/1039873190238060544
This is one of the few benefits of being in a mid-major league and being able to operate in relative obscurity. Other than those in the MVC, few, if anyone will know about these several incidents that he's been involved in and allowed to continue to play. I can't imagine Dan Muller actually kicking his best player off the team, because that would basically destroy his chances of making the NCAA tournament.
Glad that Valpo, if anything, swings too far the other way on off-the-court player issues.
Good points. If memory serves, you are a Butler fan? Has there been instances with Butler (post HL days) in where they had to discipline a player because it became too big of a news story?
Correct, I am a Butler fan. The only instance of significant discipline post HL days is when they kicked Chrishawn Hopkins (who was assumed to at least play major minutes that year) off the team before the 2012-13 season when they were in the A-10. He shot someone in the neck with a pellet gun from his dorm room. The story didn't come out until after they'd already kicked him out of school, so doesn't really fit the criteria given. Butler's suspended players for having a water balloon fight in the hotel since they've been in the Big East, so while I know Butler's not perfect by any means, there definitely hasn't been a player approaching Yarbrough's continued transgressions.
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 13, 2018, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 13, 2018, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 13, 2018, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 13, 2018, 08:38:31 AM
Another redbird in trouble with the law.
https://twitter.com/WZND/status/1039873190238060544
This is one of the few benefits of being in a mid-major league and being able to operate in relative obscurity. Other than those in the MVC, few, if anyone will know about these several incidents that he's been involved in and allowed to continue to play. I can't imagine Dan Muller actually kicking his best player off the team, because that would basically destroy his chances of making the NCAA tournament.
Glad that Valpo, if anything, swings too far the other way on off-the-court player issues.
Good points. If memory serves, you are a Butler fan? Has there been instances with Butler (post HL days) in where they had to discipline a player because it became too big of a news story?
Correct, I am a Butler fan. The only instance of significant discipline post HL days is when they kicked Chrishawn Hopkins (who was assumed to at least play major minutes that year) off the team before the 2012-13 season when they were in the A-10. He shot someone in the neck with a pellet gun from his dorm room. The story didn't come out until after they'd already kicked him out of school, so doesn't really fit the criteria given. Butler's suspended players for having a water balloon fight in the hotel since they've been in the Big East, so while I know Butler's not perfect by any means, there definitely hasn't been a player approaching Yarbrough's continued transgressions.
I feel strongly that Butler would remain true to it's standards for student athlete behavior, irrespective of conference affiliation or external pressures.
It's a bummer to hear Yarbrough news. I don't know how they can't suspend him for a good chunk of games. We all should want our conference-mates to kill in OOC.
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1040315893262086145
That's a great chart, VU2014. It really shows how teams 2 through 10 were essentially equal ... and also illustrates that it won't take a huge improvement for Valpo to move up the MVC rankings.
Missouri State has gotten a commitment from the #35 overall PG in the nation for the 2019 class. They are going to be really good really soon.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 13, 2018, 04:36:38 PM
Missouri State has gotten a commitment from the #35 overall PG in the nation for the 2019 class. They are going to be really good really soon.
Might take them out of the running for Phillip Russell (Missouri 2020 PG recruit). They have been involved in his recruitment. He's one of the 2020 PGs that we offered.
If it does then that's only good news for us right? I don't fault Missouri State at all for potentially jumping on this opportunity even if it comes at the expense of a potential impact recruit at the same position later. Get your good players where you can when you can. If we can get Russell so much the better for us and for the MVC as a whole.
A few big commitments for Bradley and Loyola today. Let's hope we land our top 2019 target.
Yarborough is practicing with the team. It could be a sign he's going to play this season.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/1044299220893802501
Quote from: VU2014 on September 24, 2018, 04:34:54 PM
Yarborough is practicing with the team. It could be a sign he's going to play this season.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/1044299220893802501
Of course he is. He will sit out a limited number of meaningless OOC games despite all the crap he pulled, then return a more contrite, wiser soul, grateful for the second chance. My 1st grade grandson could have predicted it. That compares to Jubril being suspended for the last 25 games 2 years ago for allowing a no good bum to write a paper for him, and combined with AP's season-ending injury killed our chances of going to the Dance. I also recall after it was announced that we were joining the MVC reading message board after board and feeling positive vibes from everywhere, except, Illinois State, whose idiot fans attributed all of our success to a lucky get named Alec Peters. F that entire program and their fan base. May the total hypocrisy of what they are about to do with their big f'in star blow up in their f'in face.
I can't believe I'm saying this with how vocal I've been about Valpo's home schedule: maybe we should cut our schedule makers a bit of slack. UNI's schedule is out and the home slate is TERRIBLE. Like barely better than ours if at all.
http://unipanthers.com/news/2018/10/2/mens-basketball-releases-non-conference-schedule.aspx
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 03, 2018, 08:26:03 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this with how vocal I've been about Valpo's home schedule: maybe we should cut our schedule makers a bit of slack. UNI's schedule is out and the home slate is TERRIBLE. Like barely better than ours if at all.
http://unipanthers.com/news/2018/10/2/mens-basketball-releases-non-conference-schedule.aspx
Not great but they've had some awesome home games in the past like getting Xavier last year. Their HC has built up some connections over the years. Unfortunately we don't have a GCU coming here this season. Ball State is out best home game. A good opponent but not a great one. either way I'll be making my way to the ARC for that game.
I get the hype for GCU, I really do; but until they can prove themselves at the nonconference level and by consistently beating New Mexico Statethat home game is about in the same class as Ball State to me.
ISUb is appealing to the NCAA to get Cooper Neese a whole season of eligibility.
https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/1047692554823598080
I hope it happens but I doubt it will. This would give them a much better chance to pick up some important nonconference wins which would be good for the conference
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 03, 2018, 11:10:36 PM
I hope it happens but I doubt it will. This would give them a much better chance to pick up some important nonconference wins which would be good for the conference
Indiana State's Semester ends the week of December 9th. The only game of real consequence if they were trying to build an at-large resume prior to that on their schedule is against Western Kentucky. Their game against TCU and the Diamond Head Classic all take place after that, so he'll be eligible for their bigger games regardless.
I do agree that I'd like to see him eligible for the full season. Things didn't work out at Butler and he never suited up for a game there, so seems silly to act like he did.
Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.
But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.
Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live
MSU just landed a espn 4 star 2019 PG recruit. He's unranked by rivals and scout. He only had two offers. I have no clue about this kid but it makes me wonder if he's worthy of his star ranking. If I remember correctly Jay Harris was a 4 star espn PG as well and he ended up being one of/if not the biggest bust in Valpo Basketball history.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 04, 2018, 09:11:21 PM
MSU just landed a espn 4 star 2019 PG recruit. He's unranked by rivals and scout. He only had two offers. I have no clue about this kid but it makes me wonder if he's worthy of his star ranking. If I remember correctly Jay Harris was a 4 star espn PG as well and he ended up being one of/if not the biggest bust in Valpo Basketball history.
This isn't always the case, but most of the time if the kid is a legit 4 star recruit, given that we're about a month out from signing day, they'll have more offers than from Missouri State and Loyola Marymount. The star rating system is handled differently with each outlet, but normally 247 will have a more accurate depiction of a recruit because they have a composite of theirs and other ratings. FWIW, they don't have any kind of number assigned to Brinson, which is rare this late in the game.
Doesn't mean he'll be a bust, but moreso his offer list than anything else indicates that he probably isn't going to be a consistent star for the Bears, though he does look like he's a solid athlete from his highlight videos. Slow (and kind of low, IMO) release on his jumper that he'll probably need to work on.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1050431125636542465
I'm probably known as the #1 Barry Hinson antagonizer on this board, but damn that was awesome. Well done, coach.
Haha - the Valley's still a great league, but losing Creighton and Wichita State have hurt things tremendously from an attendance standpoint. Last year's title game had 8,056 in attendance. In 2013 (Creighton's last year) that same game had 16,659, and in 2017 (Wichita State's last year) it was 11,744. Loyola sold out their 4,486 seat arena 1 time last season (Final home game vs. Illinois State). Missouri State sold out their 11,000 seat arena 0 times last year (biggest game for attendance was 6724 against Hinson's SIU team though).
That doesn't mean that people should ignore the league because it does have some good teams in it, but Hinson's a little off even while delivering a fun sound bite.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 12, 2018, 07:06:56 AM
Haha - the Valley's still a great league, but losing Creighton and Wichita State have hurt things tremendously from an attendance standpoint. Last year's title game had 8,056 in attendance. In 2013 (Creighton's last year) that same game had 16,659, and in 2017 (Wichita State's last year) it was 11,744. Loyola sold out their 4,486 seat arena 1 time last season (Final home game vs. Illinois State). Missouri State sold out their 11,000 seat arena 0 times last year (biggest game for attendance was 6724 against Hinson's SIU team though).
That doesn't mean that people should ignore the league because it does have some good teams in it, but Hinson's a little off even while delivering a fun sound bite.
Hard to argue with facts, but the bit was enjoyable.
Sustained success is going to be difficult with the current MVC make-up (NCAA Tournament wins). It was impressive to see just how many games MVC teams have won in the tourney (40). However, according to this article our tournament success ranks us 11th (MVC). Even worse is that the Horizon league is tied for best conference winning percentage, haha!! (Butler really?)
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/bracketiq/2018-03-03/how-every-conference-has-fared-march-madness-1985 (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/bracketiq/2018-03-03/how-every-conference-has-fared-march-madness-1985)
There are 1,000 arguments to be had, so I am not saying this is definitive, but is it better to have parity in the conference (now) -vs- having (3) teams that have the ability to make runs every tournament (Creighton + Wichita State + UNI)? Attendance is clearly what Barry Hinson drives home (incorrectly in his bit) but what really excites me about his conference is that Valpo really has a chance in this current makeup to make tournament appearances.
I am not sure I'd be so excited if Valpo had joined The Valley that included Creighton, Wichita State and UNI. Since 1999 those three schools have won the automatic bid 15/20 cycles or 75%. I can only assume that is how the HL feels now with Butler and Valpo gone, maybe they like the HL better now too!
WTF
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1050736966856269825
So the MWC backs out of a challenge with the Valley that has been completely evenly matched the past three years (the Challenge literally finished in a tie the past two seasons), citing travel costs, and immediately re-ups a challenge with another midmajor league that's even further away?
I mean, fine, do what ya gotta do, but spare us the b.s. excuse, please.
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 04, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.
But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.
Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live
There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.
Grand Canyon moved to non-profit status this summer.
Quote from: vusupporter on October 12, 2018, 12:34:08 PM
Grand Canyon moved to non-profit status this summer.
Good point and I appreciate you correcting me. However, it is not quite that simple:
From the article in Inside Higher Ed on Grand Canyon going 'non-profit':
The publicly traded company on Monday closed on the deal to sell its campus and academic operations for $853 million -- with an expected future adjustment to $875 million -- to a new nonprofit that is taking the name Grand Canyon University. Under a 15-year contract, the remaining corporate entity, Grand Canyon Education, will provide a wide range of outsourced support services to the university in exchange for 60 percent of its tuition and revenue, according to a corporate filing.
and later in the article
HLC rejected Grand Canyon's earlier bid to go nonprofit, saying too much of the operation, including both academic and service functions, would be housed in the for-profit division. But the accreditor subsequently revised its criteria on service agreements, which Grand Canyon said made the difference this time around. HLC also backed the deal between Kaplan University and Purdue University.So, in other words, they did not like the stigma associated with being a for-profit so they created a model in which the new non-profit portion buys a wide range of services from the remaining for-profit portion (and while I cannot verify it, I would bet they are required to buy only from Grand Canyon Education).
Go on their website sometime and scroll through their faculty roster. Nearly everyone is an adjunct. And of the few full-time faculty, very few have PhDs. Now that is not to say that having some adjuncts is a bad thing - they can bring valuable practical experience into the classroom. But having nearly all of your faculty be adjuncts is clearly managing cost over quality.
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 04, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.
But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.
Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live
Is that decision not to play GCU a moral decision? I won't argue morals, because I can respect that opinion. I would just add that playing them (if they are a worthy opponent) is fine with me. But I would not support adding them to the MVC because stability is the name of the game.
There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 12, 2018, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 04, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.
But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.
Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live
There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.
Oops, lets try this again. Now that my reply isn't buried within the quote of your earlier statement. Please see belowIs that decision not to play GCU a moral decision? I won't argue morals, because I can respect that opinion. I would just add that playing them (if they are a worthy opponent) is fine with me. But I would not support adding them to the MVC because stability is the name of the game.
You can almost argue that Higher Education in this country is a profit seeking operations. They just don't pay any shareholders. Instead they stash/invest their profits in tax free endowments.
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 04, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.
But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.
Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live
There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.
This sounds eerily similar to arguments teachers unions make against charter schools. Traditional education systems are scared to death of any attempt to commoditize education.
For profit education is a joke. The minute students become a commodity it stops being a school.
Let's not get too into the weeds about this topic on the basketball forum. I think GCU's some what strange situation with it's non-for-profit status might make it difficult for them to get into a better conference than the WAC. GCU definitely sinks a boat load of $ into their basketball program for a mid-major programs. Their HC is making multi-millions if I remember correctly and have built an impressive gameday atmosphere at their home arena. I personally wouldn't be opposed to playing them if they helped us achieving our goals of putting together a at-large resume.
I honestly foresee them as a future member of the WCC if they become a consistent top 100 team and Gonzaga starts making noise about leaving again unless the conference gets better. Or perhaps in the MWC during or after the next big realignment. I can see the MWC finally understanding the importance of basketball and become a western version of the pre 2013 Big East. An easily attainable but significant upgrade to their basketball profile (adding some combination of the likes of Gonzaga St Mary's BYU GCU and possibly Wichita State Tulsa Tulane and SMU if they are left looking for a new conference due to other realignment events) would be a significant boon to their negotiation position in a new media deal.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 12, 2018, 08:41:21 AMWTF https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1050736966856269825
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on October 12, 2018, 09:38:26 AMSo the MWC backs out of a challenge with the Valley that has been completely evenly matched the past three years (the Challenge literally finished in a tie the past two seasons), citing travel costs, and immediately re-ups a challenge with another midmajor league that's even further away? I mean, fine, do what ya gotta do, but spare us the b.s. excuse, please.
I still think it would be a great benefit to all if all 3 conferences entered into challenge agreements with each other--1 home 1 away every year-- sadly, I believe that the MVC is (wrongly) perceived as a half or full step below both leagues so it probably won't ever happen.
Interesting insight into the style of play/coaching/reffing in the MVC. I copy pasted this from the MVCFan board.
QuoteRe: Official 2018-19 MVCfans.com Prediction - 7th Place
Postby Drakey » October 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
Fortunately the style of play in the Valley over the last several yeas has improved to the point of being watchable. I was fearful at one point that UNI's success was going to doom the Valley to a future of 52-49 games. We had literally become the most unwatchable basketball conference in the country. Fortunately we got some new coaches who didn't believe in the grab, stop and flop philosophy and we started to see some entertaining basketball again. This along with some officiating changes has helped make Valley Basketball enjoyable again. Fortunately for the league and unfortunately for UNI, as other schools have hired coaches who quit letting UNI dictate the tempo of the game, and the officials quit allowing defenders to maul offensive players, UNI's effectiveness has decreased. So for me it is not fear or jealousy, just hopefulness.
Last edited by Drakey on October 15th, 2018, 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Drakey
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Posts: 394
Joined: August 6th, 2010, 9:21 am
Quote from: VU2014 on October 15, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
Interesting insight into the style of play/coaching/reffing in the MVC. I copy pasted this from the MVCFan board.
QuoteRe: Official 2018-19 MVCfans.com Prediction - 7th Place
Postby Drakey » October 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
Fortunately the style of play in the Valley over the last several yeas has improved to the point of being watchable. I was fearful at one point that UNI's success was going to doom the Valley to a future of 52-49 games. We had literally become the most unwatchable basketball conference in the country. Fortunately we got some new coaches who didn't believe in the grab, stop and flop philosophy and we started to see some entertaining basketball again. This along with some officiating changes has helped make Valley Basketball enjoyable again. Fortunately for the league and unfortunately for UNI, as other schools have hired coaches who quit letting UNI dictate the tempo of the game, and the officials quit allowing defenders to maul offensive players, UNI's effectiveness has decreased. So for me it is not fear or jealousy, just hopefulness.
Last edited by Drakey on October 15th, 2018, 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Drakey
MVC starter
MVC starter
Posts: 394
Joined: August 6th, 2010, 9:21 am
I think the "watchability" of the league's games had more to do with the competitive nature of the games and league standings (and maybe more specifically with Drake last year itself) outside of Loyola than the actual tempo of the games. The MVC was ranked 28/32 conferences in the number of possessions during conference games. But if you look at the history of the league, it's always been a slog in conference play. In the history of kenpom, the league has never been ranked in the top 20 in pace, and the last few years in terms of league play, has ranked at or near the bottom in offensive efficiency (30/32 last year, 27th the year before and 32nd the year before that and hasn't ranked in the top 10 in offensive efficiency since the 12-13 season) the last few years.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as despite the NBA being a far more highly paced and highly skilled league I still prefer the collegiate game, but the numbers don't agree with the poster from the MVC board.
Last 10 years of pace of play in the MVC and its NCAA rank:
2018: 66.6 possessions per conference game (28th)
2017: 66.7 (30th)
2016: 66.7 (29th) - NCAA reduced shot clock to 30 seconds
2015: 60.0 (32nd)
2014: 63.4 (30th)
2013: 64.3 (25th)
2012: 65.2 (21st)
2011: 63.2 (30th)
2010: 63.3 (31st)
2009: 62.9 (29th)
Yeah the Valley always seems to be League where every opposing team really grinds each other out and turns into a half court game. The way Horizon League teams play compared to Valley teams is pretty striking. And so is the officiating... but I'll bite my tongue about that. I felt like Valpo was one of the only programs in the HL that played a Valley style of defense which always benefited us because we could get stops. I also thought we had the best coach for a while in that league. We'd kill to have Vashil type big man in the MVC right now. I feel like Jay & Smits would be more effective in the HL than they will be in the Valley. Smits can definitely put points on the board but he'll give up his fair share. It's not enough to just have size on defense.
It's almost a must to have great guard play in the MVC to have any success.
They are no easy wins in this league. Every night the staff needs to prepare and the players need to bring it. The coaching is top notch in this league for a mid major conference.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 03, 2018, 11:05:50 PM
ISUb is appealing to the NCAA to get Cooper Neese a whole season of eligibility.
https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/1047692554823598080
Saw on Twitter today that the NCAA denied this appeal. Not surprising.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 15, 2018, 01:09:05 PMQuote from: VU2014 on October 15, 2018, 12:35:14 PMInteresting insight into the style of play/coaching/reffing in the MVC. I copy pasted this from the MVCFan board. QuoteRe: Official 2018-19 MVCfans.com Prediction - 7th Place Postby Drakey » October 15th, 2018, 8:07 am Fortunately the style of play in the Valley over the last several yeas has improved to the point of being watchable. I was fearful at one point that UNI's success was going to doom the Valley to a future of 52-49 games. We had literally become the most unwatchable basketball conference in the country. Fortunately we got some new coaches who didn't believe in the grab, stop and flop philosophy and we started to see some entertaining basketball again. This along with some officiating changes has helped make Valley Basketball enjoyable again. Fortunately for the league and unfortunately for UNI, as other schools have hired coaches who quit letting UNI dictate the tempo of the game, and the officials quit allowing defenders to maul offensive players, UNI's effectiveness has decreased. So for me it is not fear or jealousy, just hopefulness. Last edited by Drakey on October 15th, 2018, 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total. Drakey MVC starter MVC starter Posts: 394 Joined: August 6th, 2010, 9:21 am
I think the "watchability" of the league's games had more to do with the competitive nature of the games and league standings (and maybe more specifically with Drake last year itself) outside of Loyola than the actual tempo of the games. The MVC was ranked 28/32 conferences in the number of possessions during conference games. But if you look at the history of the league, it's always been a slog in conference play. In the history of kenpom, the league has never been ranked in the top 20 in pace, and the last few years in terms of league play, has ranked at or near the bottom in offensive efficiency (30/32 last year, 27th the year before and 32nd the year before that and hasn't ranked in the top 10 in offensive efficiency since the 12-13 season) the last few years. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as despite the NBA being a far more highly paced and highly skilled league I still prefer the collegiate game, but the numbers don't agree with the poster from the MVC board. Last 10 years of pace of play in the MVC and its NCAA rank: 2018: 66.6 possessions per conference game (28th) 2017: 66.7 (30th) 2016: 66.7 (29th) - NCAA reduced shot clock to 30 seconds 2015: 60.0 (32nd) 2014: 63.4 (30th) 2013: 64.3 (25th) 2012: 65.2 (21st) 2011: 63.2 (30th) 2010: 63.3 (31st) 2009: 62.9 (29th)
Anyone decrying MVC basketball as "unwatchable" needs to be careful what they wish for. It is that slow sloggy grind it out defense first few possessions control the clock style that makes this such a fun competitive and entertaining league and is in my opinion the most salient reason why the MVC is so successful in March. As Virginia Wisconsin St Mary's the MVC in general and our NIT Quarterfinal victory over St Mary's have shown a slow-paced game that is well-played can be downright exhilarating. And the teams that excel playing that style are generally highly successful.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 17, 2018, 10:55:07 AM
Anyone decrying MVC basketball as "unwatchable" needs to be careful what they wish for. It is that slow sloggy grind it out defense first few possessions control the clock style that makes this such a fun competitive and entertaining league and is in my opinion the most salient reason why the MVC is so successful in March. As Virginia Wisconsin St Mary's the MVC in general and our NIT Quarterfinal victory over St Mary's have shown a slow-paced game that is well-played can be downright exhilarating. And the teams that excel playing that style are generally highly successful.
I do think if the MVC was interested in bringing in the casual fan, then yes, a faster pace would draw more eyes to the TV, but I think the cost/benefit of doing so if it were to affect tourney shares that the league would win, then it likely wouldn't be worth it.
It also depends on what you term as being "well played". The Valpo-St. Mary's game was well played on defense by Valpo, but offensively, it was an average game in terms of efficiency by Valpo, and a horrible game by St. Mary's. As a Valpo fan, absolutely it's exciting as they got to then go play at MSG and get a win at home, but in terms of a casual fan, watching St. Mary's put up 13 points in the 2nd half as they steadily fall further and further behind, that's not a well played game nor is it exhilarating to watch. I'm not saying that Valpo or its fans should feel bad about it, because the objective is to win the game, but if you're not a fan of Valpo that night or a basketball junkie who's going to watch the game anyway, that's not a fun watch.
Looks like the MWC-A10 challenge is happening. When will the MVC get the respect it so richly deserves? I just don't understand why we can't make this a tripartite agreement with us involved and every school guaranteed one home game on an alternating basis.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-ssdsu-basketball-atlantic-10-challenge-20181016-story.html
Case of MMs cutting off their noses to spite their faces. 1314, this would have been a great chance for 3 great conferences to do a trifecta and show what MM basketball is all about PLUS give all three conference participants two good RPI games to add to their OOC resumes.
This is what i was alluding to when i stated that MMs had to conspire to tip the scale in their direction. Why weren't they listening to me? Oh, right. I forgot where my brilliant theorys are posted ;D
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 18, 2018, 10:16:42 PM
Case of MMs cutting off their noses to spite their faces. 1314, this would have been a great chance for 3 great conferences to do a trifecta and show what MM basketball is all about PLUS give all three conference participants two good RPI games to add to their OOC resumes.
I really think the answer for the Valley is to partner with the AAC. Higher profile teams and still looking for recognition.
But would the AAC think along the same lines?
Why not make it a 4-way? Three great RPI games in the OOC.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 18, 2018, 10:26:56 PM
But would the AAC think along the same lines?
Why not make it a 4-way? Three great RPI games in the OOC.
Doubtful - even though this is a football story, the AAC doesn't consider itself a mid-major league: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/aac-power-six-push-ucf-title-claim-irritate-at-least-some-group-of-five-brethren/
Because it's really not. It's a hybrid league in its own class. There are too many major programs in that conference for it to be called "mid-major" but too many mids for it to rightly be called a power league. That's why the P5 won't do challenges with them, and they won't enter into agreements with the MVC\MWC\A10 because that would only reinforce the perception that they are beneath the P5.
Loyola just misses the AP Top 25... Such disrespect...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25053949/kansas-leads-kentucky-ap-preseason-college-hoops-poll
Loyola at #26 got 162 points - just 3 behind #25 Washington at 165. And Wichita State didn't even get one (1) point while Butler got six (6).
It just feels like the MVC doesn't matter to national pundits until we make ourselves matter. Guess it's back to work again this year to surprise more folks who simply aren't paying attention. It does feel good to be in a conference where we might play ranked teams at some point during the conference season again.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 22, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
Loyola just misses the AP Top 25... Such disrespect...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25053949/kansas-leads-kentucky-ap-preseason-college-hoops-poll
They don't deserve Top 25 voting because of 1-season in which they lose a good chunk of productivity (graduation). I don't even think they can earn Top 35 by the time the season is over. But I welcome them earning it because that is good for all. I also don't think the MVC deserves anything until they get a pecking order established. Why would a voting system take a shot on a team that has exactly 1-year of winning under their belt in decades????? The MVC is wide wide wide open for the #1 spot and until there is a clear #1/#2 every year no outside voting will give us the benefit of the doubt. No one likes forecasting into conferences with even level competition #1 thru #4 IMO. So why would they stick their neck out on Loyola the 1 timers?
I have to agree, Goodie. LUC was lucky to receive the votes they got losing 3 contributors going into 18-19.
The entire Top 25 was P-5+BE. After that, besides #26 Loyola, the only MM on the entire list were #37 Buffalo, #51 Marshall and #52 Davidson. Over 50 teams received votes but only 4 were MM. the rest were P5+BE.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 22, 2018, 08:27:00 PM
I have to agree, Goodie. LUC was lucky to receive the votes they got losing 3 contributors going into 18-19.
The entire Top 25 was P-5+BE. After that, besides #26 Loyola, the only MM on the entire list were #37 Buffalo, #51 Marshall and #52 Davidson. Over 50 teams received votes but only 4 were MM. the rest were P5+BE.
#3 Gonzaga, #7 Nevada and #41 San Diego State. Also a couple AAC schools included.
Strangest ranking to me is Notre Dame at #33. They were an NIT team last season and lose Bonzie Colson, Matt Ferrell and Martinas Geben to graduation.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 23, 2018, 08:49:52 AM
#3 Gonzaga, #7 Nevada and #41 San Diego State. Also a couple AAC schools included.
Strangest ranking to me is Notre Dame at #33. They were an NIT team last season and lose Bonzie Colson, Matt Ferrell and Martinas Geben to graduation.
Kenpom agrees with you (#59), but you combine Mike Brey with a top 15 recruiting class, and some decent guys coming back (Pflueger, Gibbs, Harvey, Mooney), voters go for who they know.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 22, 2018, 04:46:03 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 22, 2018, 01:30:03 PMLoyola just misses the AP Top 25... Such disrespect... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25053949/kansas-leads-kentucky-ap-preseason-college-hoops-poll (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25053949/kansas-leads-kentucky-ap-preseason-college-hoops-poll)
They don't deserve Top 25 voting because of 1-season in which they lose a good chunk of productivity (graduation). I don't even think they can earn Top 35 by the time the season is over. But I welcome them earning it because that is good for all. I also don't think the MVC deserves anything until they get a pecking order established. Why would a voting system take a shot on a team that has exactly 1-year of winning under their belt in decades? ??? ? The MVC is wide wide wide open for the #1 spot and until there is a clear #1/#2 every year no outside voting will give us the benefit of the doubt. No one likes forecasting into conferences with even level competition #1 thru #4 IMO. So why would they stick their neck out on Loyola the 1 timers?
They haven't lost all that much. They return 3 of their top 5 players and have a ready replacement for Richardson in Williamson an impact transfer becoming eligible in Uguak and a ton of freshman talent. Meanwhile 3 teams Loyola beat last year are in the top 12 including a Nevada team that hadn't won a tournament game since 2007 prior to last year. Returning talent or not they're likely to struggle to live up to that lofty ranking. But I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking why Loyola can't have the nod over LSU (last appearance 2015 Last win 2009) or Washington (last appearance 2011) as a token of respect for what they've done and are building especially since they return the majority of their production.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
They haven't lost all that much.
And to think our crappy team lost to them late in the season by 9 and we were within 3 with 4 minutes to go! First game Nov 1!! ;D
Quote from: vu72 on October 23, 2018, 11:12:24 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 10:09:18 AMThey haven't lost all that much.
And to think our crappy team lost to them late in the season by 9 and we were within 3 with 4 minutes to go! First game Nov 1!! ;D
Excellent point. Last year's team was the worst Valpo team in years and yet they found themselves in the thick of many MVC matchups last year. With what should be a better roster, maybe those of us making more conservative prognostications (myself included) could stand to be more optimistic. The trouble is, this league is so deep and good that it's hard to be overly aggressive. I believe strongly that seven teams in the MVC are more talented than they were last year. Two others (Missouri State and Evansville) lost a lot of talent but I believe they've gained significantly in the coaching department. The only team I'm not sure what to make of is Drake but I believe they're on very good footing.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 23, 2018, 08:49:52 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 22, 2018, 08:27:00 PM
The entire Top 25 was P-5+BE. After that, besides #26 Loyola, the only MM on the entire list were #37 Buffalo, #51 Marshall and #52 Davidson. Over 50 teams received votes but only 4 were MM. the rest were P5+BE.
#3 Gonzaga, #7 Nevada and #41 San Diego State. Also a couple AAC schools included.
Yeah, you're right. I skimmed really quickly and missed SDSU and Nevada from the MWC. But judging from past concensus on this board, Gonzaga is really a de facto Non--MM. And I also have seen comments on our board that kinda lumped the AAC schools in with P5+BE. So in terms of what we can consider "true MMs," there is still a significant under representation in this particular poll. And alluding to 1314's lack of respect for the MVC comment below, in my mind, that is squarely reflected in Nevada being at #7 while LUC is placed way down at #26.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
They haven't lost all that much. They return 3 of their top 5 players and have a ready replacement for Richardson in Williamson an impact transfer becoming eligible in Uguak and a ton of freshman talent. Meanwhile 3 teams Loyola beat last year are in the top 12 including a Nevada team that hadn't won a tournament game since 2007 prior to last year. Returning talent or not they're likely to struggle to live up to that lofty ranking. But I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking why Loyola can't have the nod over LSU (last appearance 2015 Last win 2009) or Washington (last appearance 2011) as a token of respect for what they've done and are building especially since they return the majority of their production.
What Loyola did last year, making it to the F4 was great, but it really shouldn't have any bearing on the rankings the following year. If they play well enough this year, they'll get ranked, and that's because of the respect they earned last season. Preseason polls really don't mean anything anyways. They're all projecting, and 99% of the time they're wrong one way or the other. The only ranking that really matters is the seed line earned at the end of the year.
Michigan wasn't ranked at the beginning of last year and wound up in the National Championship. Northwestern was ranked 19th (and for good reason as they were an NCAA tournament team bringing back basically everyone) and fell off the face of the earth. Arizona was ranked #3 and lost in the first round to Buffalo. Louisville, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Northwestern, Saint Mary's and Baylor were all ranked at the beginning of last year and didn't make the tournament for one reason or another.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 23, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
They haven't lost all that much. They return 3 of their top 5 players and have a ready replacement for Richardson in Williamson an impact transfer becoming eligible in Uguak and a ton of freshman talent. Meanwhile 3 teams Loyola beat last year are in the top 12 including a Nevada team that hadn't won a tournament game since 2007 prior to last year. Returning talent or not they're likely to struggle to live up to that lofty ranking. But I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking why Loyola can't have the nod over LSU (last appearance 2015 Last win 2009) or Washington (last appearance 2011) as a token of respect for what they've done and are building especially since they return the majority of their production.
What Loyola did last year, making it to the F4 was great, but it really shouldn't have any bearing on the rankings the following year. If they play well enough this year, they'll get ranked, and that's because of the respect they earned last season. Preseason polls really don't mean anything anyways. They're all projecting, and 99% of the time they're wrong one way or the other. The only ranking that really matters is the seed line earned at the end of the year.
Michigan wasn't ranked at the beginning of last year and wound up in the National Championship. Northwestern was ranked 19th (and for good reason as they were an NCAA tournament team bringing back basically everyone) and fell off the face of the earth. Arizona was ranked #3 and lost in the first round to Buffalo. Louisville, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Northwestern, Saint Mary's and Baylor were all ranked at the beginning of last year and didn't make the tournament for one reason or another.
Preseason polls may have little predictive value, but a good analyst could probably quantify the publicity value in monetary terms. The media talks about the teams in the polls and it would be a good boost for mid-major schools who get little coverage. Unfortunately, the media also likes a large audience so it has an interest in seeing P5 schools on top.
Quote from: Valpower on October 23, 2018, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 23, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
They haven't lost all that much. They return 3 of their top 5 players and have a ready replacement for Richardson in Williamson an impact transfer becoming eligible in Uguak and a ton of freshman talent. Meanwhile 3 teams Loyola beat last year are in the top 12 including a Nevada team that hadn't won a tournament game since 2007 prior to last year. Returning talent or not they're likely to struggle to live up to that lofty ranking. But I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking why Loyola can't have the nod over LSU (last appearance 2015 Last win 2009) or Washington (last appearance 2011) as a token of respect for what they've done and are building especially since they return the majority of their production.
What Loyola did last year, making it to the F4 was great, but it really shouldn't have any bearing on the rankings the following year. If they play well enough this year, they'll get ranked, and that's because of the respect they earned last season. Preseason polls really don't mean anything anyways. They're all projecting, and 99% of the time they're wrong one way or the other. The only ranking that really matters is the seed line earned at the end of the year.
Michigan wasn't ranked at the beginning of last year and wound up in the National Championship. Northwestern was ranked 19th (and for good reason as they were an NCAA tournament team bringing back basically everyone) and fell off the face of the earth. Arizona was ranked #3 and lost in the first round to Buffalo. Louisville, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Northwestern, Saint Mary's and Baylor were all ranked at the beginning of last year and didn't make the tournament for one reason or another.
Preseason polls may have little predictive value, but a good analyst could probably quantify the publicity value in monetary terms. The media talks about the teams in the polls and it would be a good boost for mid-major schools who get little coverage. Unfortunately, the media also likes a large audience so it has an interest in seeing P5 schools on top.
This data is from 2010, but it shows the #1 team in the pre-season AP poll performed better in the NCAA tournament than the #1 team in the final poll. Again, data is old, but still an interesting read if you're into statistics.
https://kenpom.com/blog/the-preseason-ap-poll-is-great/ (https://kenpom.com/blog/the-preseason-ap-poll-is-great/)
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 23, 2018, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Valpower on October 23, 2018, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 23, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
They haven't lost all that much. They return 3 of their top 5 players and have a ready replacement for Richardson in Williamson an impact transfer becoming eligible in Uguak and a ton of freshman talent. Meanwhile 3 teams Loyola beat last year are in the top 12 including a Nevada team that hadn't won a tournament game since 2007 prior to last year. Returning talent or not they're likely to struggle to live up to that lofty ranking. But I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking why Loyola can't have the nod over LSU (last appearance 2015 Last win 2009) or Washington (last appearance 2011) as a token of respect for what they've done and are building especially since they return the majority of their production.
What Loyola did last year, making it to the F4 was great, but it really shouldn't have any bearing on the rankings the following year. If they play well enough this year, they'll get ranked, and that's because of the respect they earned last season. Preseason polls really don't mean anything anyways. They're all projecting, and 99% of the time they're wrong one way or the other. The only ranking that really matters is the seed line earned at the end of the year.
Michigan wasn't ranked at the beginning of last year and wound up in the National Championship. Northwestern was ranked 19th (and for good reason as they were an NCAA tournament team bringing back basically everyone) and fell off the face of the earth. Arizona was ranked #3 and lost in the first round to Buffalo. Louisville, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Northwestern, Saint Mary's and Baylor were all ranked at the beginning of last year and didn't make the tournament for one reason or another.
Preseason polls may have little predictive value, but a good analyst could probably quantify the publicity value in monetary terms. The media talks about the teams in the polls and it would be a good boost for mid-major schools who get little coverage. Unfortunately, the media also likes a large audience so it has an interest in seeing P5 schools on top.
This data is from 2010, but it shows the #1 team in the pre-season AP poll performed better in the NCAA tournament than the #1 team in the final poll. Again, data is old, but still an interesting read if you're into statistics.
https://kenpom.com/blog/the-preseason-ap-poll-is-great/ (https://kenpom.com/blog/the-preseason-ap-poll-is-great/)
40% of me likes statistics, but 70% of me doesn't.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 22, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
Loyola just misses the AP Top 25... Such disrespect...
Here's how teams making a Final Four from a "mid-major" conference were rated to start the following season:
Loyola '18 - NR
Gonzaga '17 - 18th (merited, as they finished the year at 8th)
Wichita '13 - 16 (ended ranked #2)
VCU '11 - NR
Butler '11 - NR
Butler '10 - 17th
George Mason - NR
Of the three teams not-ranked to start the following season, only VCU's '12 team made it back to the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: Valpower on October 23, 2018, 02:20:41 PM
Preseason polls may have little predictive value, but a good analyst could probably quantify the publicity value in monetary terms. The media talks about the teams in the polls and it would be a good boost for mid-major schools who get little coverage. Unfortunately, the media also likes a large audience so it has an interest in seeing P5 schools on top.
The thing is, the real money and publicity is made during the tournament when casual fans are paying attention. There is value in having a team ranked, I won't deny that. They're on the Top 25 ticker, they get an AP writer covering the game, and have a better chance of having their highlights shown. But due to the NBA's popularity which takes up the majority of highlight time now, if you aren't Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas, top 25 or not, the coverage during the regular season is going to be lacking. Villanova's won 2 of the last 3 National titles and they get less national coverage than those 4 teams and the Michigan States, Indianas and UCLAs of the world.
Quote from: Valpower on October 23, 2018, 04:39:05 PM40% of me likes statistics, but 70% of me doesn't
It's good to hear you are giving it the proverbial 110%. ;)
You're one of the three types of people. Those who like math and those who don't.
Apparently Ben Jacobson is changing up UNI's offense. Their teams are notorious for slow pace, half court, grind down the shot clock and play strong defense. Sounds like that is changing. They have been recruiting some more athletic guys then in the past. I'm curious what the trade off will be on defense with their quicker pace of play on offense. even if it's just an exhibition against a non-D1, 74 points in one half is still 74 points in one half. Something to look out for this season. AJ Green is the real deal.
https://twitter.com/UNImbb/status/1056649267903979522
Loyola lost in secret scrimmage to IU at Banker's Life in Indy. Nothing official, but rumors had the score as 70-48.
If they can improve their offense without sacrificing much on defense it will be very good for the MVC. That said I think their previous style of play lends itself better to upsets. I hope it works out for them.
Much like the question asked in the MBB thread about the roster and pictures not being updated.... What the heck is going on with the MVC website??? Where is all the basketball Media Day info??? There are now 3 or 4 articles up about specific teams, but way before this time last year there was all kinds of Multi-Media stuff including videos from the teams and coaches. I asked this question before and was told that they most likely were waiting for the cable broadcasting to happen first. Well.... exhibition games are starting and still nothing on the MVC site. Would have thought that the MVC would have wanted to take advantage of the Loyola buzz and be a little more proactive in getting as much stuff out there as early as possible!!
Quote from: FWalum on October 29, 2018, 10:58:52 AM
Much like the question asked in the MBB thread about the roster and pictures not being updated.... What the heck is going on with the MVC website??? Where is all the basketball Media Day info??? There are now 3 or 4 articles up about specific teams, but way before this time last year there was all kinds of Multi-Media stuff including videos from the teams and coaches. I asked this question before and was told that they most likely were waiting for the cable broadcasting to happen first. Well.... exhibition games are starting and still nothing on the MVC site. Would have thought that the MVC would have wanted to take advantage of the Loyola buzz and be a little more proactive in getting as much stuff out there as early as possible!!
Yeah, it feels like we moved back to the Horizon League. As to no roster pictures or updated player bios, that's business as usual. Bad optics all around.
Quote from: wh on October 29, 2018, 01:30:40 PM
Quote from: FWalum on October 29, 2018, 10:58:52 AM
Much like the question asked in the MBB thread about the roster and pictures not being updated.... What the heck is going on with the MVC website??? Where is all the basketball Media Day info??? There are now 3 or 4 articles up about specific teams, but way before this time last year there was all kinds of Multi-Media stuff including videos from the teams and coaches. I asked this question before and was told that they most likely were waiting for the cable broadcasting to happen first. Well.... exhibition games are starting and still nothing on the MVC site. Would have thought that the MVC would have wanted to take advantage of the Loyola buzz and be a little more proactive in getting as much stuff out there as early as possible!!
Yeah, it feels like we moved back to the Horizon League. As to no roster pictures or updated player bios, that's business as usual. Bad optics all around.
Not making excuses but my guess(and that is all it is) is the Media Relation folks are just overworked. I presume these are the people responsible for doing background stuff/player bios etc. There are two people, Aaron Leavitt who covers WSO, VB and MBB and Brandon Vickrey, who covers MSO, FB and WBB. So both have two fall sports leading into Basketball season. That is tough duty. The pictures are a different problem.
Quote from: vu72 on October 29, 2018, 02:27:42 PM
Quote from: wh on October 29, 2018, 01:30:40 PM
Quote from: FWalum on October 29, 2018, 10:58:52 AM
Much like the question asked in the MBB thread about the roster and pictures not being updated.... What the heck is going on with the MVC website??? Where is all the basketball Media Day info??? There are now 3 or 4 articles up about specific teams, but way before this time last year there was all kinds of Multi-Media stuff including videos from the teams and coaches. I asked this question before and was told that they most likely were waiting for the cable broadcasting to happen first. Well.... exhibition games are starting and still nothing on the MVC site. Would have thought that the MVC would have wanted to take advantage of the Loyola buzz and be a little more proactive in getting as much stuff out there as early as possible!!
Yeah, it feels like we moved back to the Horizon League. As to no roster pictures or updated player bios, that's business as usual. Bad optics all around.
Not making excuses but my guess(and that is all it is) is the Media Relation folks are just overworked. I presume these are the people responsible for doing background stuff/player bios etc. There are two people, Aaron Leavitt who covers WSO, VB and MBB and Brandon Vickrey, who covers MSO, FB and WBB. So both have two fall sports leading into Basketball season. That is tough duty. The pictures are a different problem.
FWIW, it looks like bios and stats have been updated for returning players and transfers, so it's just the freshmen that need to be updated. Understandable, since they have been on campus long and the staff have lots of areas to cover.
Lots of schools utilize students (interns?) to compile a lot of this information to relieve some of the workload. Does Valpo do this or do Adam and Brandon have to complete all of this work?
Looks like Today was the Media photo shoot for VU basketball. I would think the roster pics will be updated soon.
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/1057017951612743682
Reached out to The Valley about the MVC BBall Media Day and season preview and quickly received an answer... I mean really quickly, like 15 minutes quick. Here is their reply and the schedule:
QuoteWe haven't released the air dates for the Preseason Basketball Special, but below is a schedule of when it will air on FOX Sports Midwest-Indiana-Kansas City and NBC Sports Chicago.
Have a great day. Go Valpo!
November 5 (4:30 p.m., 7 p.m. and 11 p.m. Central) – FOX Sports Midwest-Indiana-Kansas City
November 6 (1:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. Central) – NBC Sports Chicago (Main)
November 6 (4 p.m. Central) – NBC Sports Chicago (Plus)
November 7 (5:30 p.m. Central) – FOX Sports Midwest-Indiana
November 7 (7 p.m. Central) – NBC Sports Chicago (Plus)
November 8 (6 p.m. Central) – FOX Sports Midwest-Indiana-Kansas City
November 9 (5 p.m. Central) – FOX Sports Midwest-Indiana-Kansas City
They did not extrapolate on WHY they had not released the schedule as of this time... I mean, you are six days away from the first showing of the special and you still have not released the schedule??? Many of the teams have already had exhibition games and you still haven't released the schedule of the preseason preview??? I mean, doesn't the word "preseason" indicate that it should air "before the season"??? All that aside, I want to thank them for being so very responsive! Next time I won't hesitate in sending off an email if I have a question.
Missouri State transfers Tyrik Dixon from Middle Tennessee and Tulio Da Silva from South Florida have been granted waivers and are immediately eligible. Rumor also has it that Illinois State is expecting good news on some players' eligibility as well. Great news for the conference as these teams will (and might) get needed depth early in the season.
Opening night attendance comparison.
https://twitter.com/WyattWheeler_NL/status/1060308324942573568
Loyola's team is such a well oiled machine. It pays to have experience and continuity amongst your roster. Good players and well coached. I'm not expecting us to have a Final 4 team next season but I expect us to have a similar fluidity. Something comparable to the 15-16 Valpo team. We'll see if this core has what it takes.
https://twitter.com/TimDoyle00/status/1060001508664795137
They play such smooth beautiful basketball. It really is a joy to watch. I would love to see VU get that good. A return to 15-16 level would be awesome. A team like that in the MVC gets in I think. I'm sure I've said this before but I believe that that snub is the main reason why we're in the MVC. If we had gotten an at-large out of the HL I'm not sure enough people in power would be convinced of the necessity of the move.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 08, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
They play such smooth beautiful basketball. It really is a joy to watch. I would love to see VU get that good. A return to 15-16 level would be awesome. A team like that in the MVC gets in I think. I'm sure I've said this before but I believe that that snub is the main reason why we're in the MVC. If we had gotten an at-large out of the HL I'm not sure enough people in power would be convinced of the necessity of the move.
That 15-16 Valpo team had a similar resume to the 16-17 Illinois State team, only Illinois State had a better win in beating Wichita State, and a better league record in a better league. Neither received at-large berths.
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 08, 2018, 06:23:53 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 08, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
They play such smooth beautiful basketball. It really is a joy to watch. I would love to see VU get that good. A return to 15-16 level would be awesome. A team like that in the MVC gets in I think. I'm sure I've said this before but I believe that that snub is the main reason why we're in the MVC. If we had gotten an at-large out of the HL I'm not sure enough people in power would be convinced of the necessity of the move.
That 15-16 Valpo team had a similar resume to the 16-17 Illinois State team, only Illinois State had a better win in beating Wichita State, and a better league record in a better league. Neither received at-large berths.
How did the NIT go though? Valpo was the real deal that year.
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 08, 2018, 06:23:53 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 08, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
They play such smooth beautiful basketball. It really is a joy to watch. I would love to see VU get that good. A return to 15-16 level would be awesome. A team like that in the MVC gets in I think. I'm sure I've said this before but I believe that that snub is the main reason why we're in the MVC. If we had gotten an at-large out of the HL I'm not sure enough people in power would be convinced of the necessity of the move.
That 15-16 Valpo team had a similar resume to the 16-17 Illinois State team, only Illinois State had a better win in beating Wichita State, and a better league record in a better league. Neither received at-large berths.
That was a down year for the Valley and they got boatraced by the Shockers twice I mean absolutely obliterated. I would have loved to have seen what would have happened had that final game been closer and\or if the MVC had been stronger. In a year like last year a team with Illinois State's resume probably gets in. (I think 15-16 Valpo may have gotten in too if the MVC had strong metrics like lads st year. Sure last year's MVC only got one bid but last year's SIU and ISUr weren't as good as 16-17 ISUr or 15-16 Valpo.
Preseason polls are crapola. If Loyola succeeds in a similar manner to last year, they will be in the top 25.
It is even worse for college football. I knew at the beginning of the season that USC had a green team and not even close to being a top 25 team.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 08, 2018, 06:47:03 AM
That was a down year for the Valley and they got boatraced by the Shockers twice I mean absolutely obliterated. I would have loved to have seen what would have happened had that final game been closer and\or if the MVC had been stronger. In a year like last year a team with Illinois State's resume probably gets in. (I think 15-16 Valpo may have gotten in too if the MVC had strong metrics like lads st year. Sure last year's MVC only got one bid but last year's SIU and ISUr weren't as good as 16-17 ISUr or 15-16 Valpo.
I'm not going to disagree with them getting beaten badly twice could have been a factor, but the only thing that mad last year's MVC stronger was the middle and the bottom of the league, and you aren't building an at-large resume by beating teams in the 100-150 range.
Loyola would likely not have gotten in last year had they not won the MVC championship game based on their seed line. Their resume is similar to the 16 Valpo team as well, except again their best OOC was better, and Valpo beating Loyola wouldn't have gotten them in the tournament either, as they would be beating a team that wouldn't get an at-large berth on their own.
I'm not saying it's fair or right, but in order for the MVC to get multiple bids, it will take a team like Illinois State running roughshod over their OOC schedule AND hope that the teams like UCF, BYU and SDSU wind up being really strong, because they all look to be borderline type of wins to build an at-large resume. Similarly, Valpo would need to with only 1 or 2 losses in their OOC schedule, need to beat WVU in one of those matchups and hope that some of the other teams they play outside of the MVC like WKU or even Ball State also turn into good wins.
Again, the 2016 Valpo team and the 2017 Illinois State teams were both good enough that they could have competed in the NCAA tournament. The problem is still with the OOC wins that teams need to pick up gives them so little room for error it's really hard to build a resume that the tournament committee couldn't resist putting in on selection Sunday.
The MVC's multibid hopes just took a big hit with Loyola's loss to Furman. They're a good program to be sure but a loss like that on your home floor is exactly the kind of loss the committee looks for as justification to keep a team like Loyola out if the Ramblers need any help on Selection Sunday. Hopefully this galvanizes them going forward and they roll through the rest of OOC play but make no mistake this is not a good night for the conference.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 09, 2018, 09:16:55 PM
The MVC's multibid hopes just took a big hit with Loyola's loss to Furman. They're a good program to be sure but a loss like that on your home floor is exactly the kind of loss the committee looks for as justification to keep a team like Loyola out if the Ramblers need any help on Selection Sunday. Hopefully this galvanizes them going forward and they roll through the rest of OOC play but make no mistake this is not a good night for the conference.
Let's face it ... after going to the Final Four, Loyola will be the opponent's "Super Bowl" in almost every game this year. I'm not writing off their at-large chances yet, but it doesn't look good because they'll certainly take on several losses in a stacked MVC this year.
WKU is stacked with size and athleticism in size. Smits and McMillan are going to be abused terribly...
Watching their game tonight UT Martin @ WKU. Even though UTM has (5) players at 6'8" or bigger and most are upper classmen they are still getting abused at halftime.
So even if their 5* lottery pick (Bassey) has foul trouble we still have an uphill battle.
Ill State avoids disaster, rallies from down 6 and beats Chicago State by 4 in Normal. The Redbirds really flexed their muscles down the stretch and outscored CSU by 10 over the last 4:00.
CSU was down 10 at half and as much as 13 but rallied in the second half outscoring ISU 10-2 late in the game then the Redbirds went on their final run.
P.T. Barnum once said, "There's no such thing as bad publicity". On that theme, here's an article from Gary Parrish at CBS.com.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/poll-attacks-would-a-second-loss-to-a-sub-100-team-at-home-get-loyola-chicago-off-your-ap-top-25-ballot/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/poll-attacks-would-a-second-loss-to-a-sub-100-team-at-home-get-loyola-chicago-off-your-ap-top-25-ballot/)
Ha, love the losers who put more stock into computer rankings than a Final 4 run on the court.
Here's a tip: if you have to rely exclusively on computer rankings, it's to compensate for a lack of knowledge watching the game.
Quote from: may know on November 15, 2018, 07:29:32 AM
Ha, love the losers who put more stock into computer rankings than a Final 4 run on the court.
Here's a tip: if you have to rely exclusively on computer rankings, it's to compensate for a lack of knowledge watching the game.
Final 4 run took place last year. Has little to do with the results on the court so far this year. Top 25 teams don't lose to Furman (who is a solid, but certainly not a top 25 team) at home.
Those computer rankings are from the results of an entire season, and also don't have anything to do with whether or not a team plays their best basketball at the right time. Butler went to the National championship game in 2011. Now, do I think it's more likely that they were the 2nd best team in the country, or the 36th (kenpom ranking) best team if you looked at all of their results over the course of that season? I'd have to go with the latter. Computer rankings don't tell the entire story or always predict an accurate conclusion, but they are much more reliable (especially at the end of a season) than any person or group of people watching games over the course of a season at ranking teams.
Quote from: may know on November 15, 2018, 07:29:32 AM
Ha, love the losers who put more stock into computer rankings than a Final 4 run on the court.
Here's a tip: if you have to rely exclusively on computer rankings, it's to compensate for a lack of knowledge watching the game.
Computer rankings are dumb because who doesn't have time to watch every game of all 351 D1 teams.
Northern Iowa losing by 7 to Dubuque in the 2nd half.
Some UNItard posted on MVCFans that every team has a shot at finishing top 4 but Valpo. Would love to bump that if I had an account.
Quote from: may know on December 08, 2018, 02:13:28 PM
Northern Iowa losing by 7 to Dubuque in the 2nd half.
Some UNItard posted on MVCFans that every team has a shot at finishing top 4 but Valpo. Would love to bump that if I had an account.
Is he wrong? We have a lot to proove.
Stones. Glass houses. I still think we do alright in conference, but considering our record last year and play thus far this year, a case could easily be made for us finishing last again.
Father Harry says some good things about our Crusaders here. He clearly approves of our victory over GW.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/break-out-weekend/
Here is a late comment. The Valley is really getting some mixed results in pre-conference.
in the week we beat UNLV:
Missouri State beat Western Kentucky
Another team won a big game I can't recall
But we had two horrific losses I also can't recall. Not worth my time to look up. But I remember that weekend observation.
Ok.
Horrific losses
Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC.
North Texas beating Indiana State
The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 11, 2018, 10:27:30 AM
Ok.
Horrific losses
Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC.
North Texas beating Indiana State
The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another
Went to this last year and had a really good time. It is well organized and entertaining. Traveling about is easy and cheap with a trolley pass and the Arch is just a walk away from the Hotels. Even if you only like seeing Basketball games played, this is a great event to go to.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1072522525236695042
Quote from: Valpo2013 on December 11, 2018, 11:04:54 AMQuote from: crusadermoe on December 11, 2018, 10:27:30 AMOk. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another
Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2018, 03:26:07 PM
Quote from: Valpo2013 on December 11, 2018, 11:04:54 AMQuote from: crusadermoe on December 11, 2018, 10:27:30 AMOk. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another
Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!
Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!
This is the internet, we are under no obligation to act rationally.
Quote from: FWalum on December 11, 2018, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2018, 03:26:07 PM
Quote from: Valpo2013 on December 11, 2018, 11:04:54 AMQuote from: crusadermoe on December 11, 2018, 10:27:30 AMOk. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another
Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!
Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!
FWIW the only part of VU1314's post that has proven true to date is money coming from Loyola Final Four run + institutional fit (which means what in regards to tangible benefits?)
I'm not a naysayer, I'm a "let's see" sayer. It's great that you all are ecstatic, but root it in reality sometimes 🤪😳🤷🏻♂️
Presently we have QUITE the MVC hill to climb. I'm excited for the journey but I'm going to wait and see on all the other proclamations by VU1314.
"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another"
Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one
Still surprising people have complaints about the move. The horizon league is a square peg meant for a square hole. The Missouri valley.....opportunities are endless. Look at Creighton and Witchita State, people still remember the southern Illinois teams of the late 00s, and certainly Loyola now. Will VU take advantage of them? Only time will tell.
Quote from: may know on December 11, 2018, 06:43:53 PM
"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another"
Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one
True. As I stated before, the Horizon League as constructed in 2017 was never going to win an opening round game, much less make it to the 2nd weekend or beyond. Good move by Valpo to get out when they did.
Quote from: FWalum on December 11, 2018, 06:11:43 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2018, 03:26:07 PMQuote from: Valpo2013 on December 11, 2018, 11:04:54 AMQuote from: crusadermoe on December 11, 2018, 10:27:30 AMOk. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another
Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!
Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!
Thank you FWAlum I should add that the reality is that we can't control what other conferences do to try to freeze us out but what we can control is how we better ourselves as a program and as an institution, how we prepare ourselves for the opportunities against the big boys when they do come, and what steps we enact to take control of whatever sphere of influence we have. Whether that's one town, one county, or a group of counties--an entire region--is irrelevant. Our goal and our plan should remain the same. This move has made and will make a world of difference on all these fronts.
The main reason P5 teams stopped playing HL and MVC schools in home and homes wasn't because they thought they were too good for it-- They'll have you believe that that's the reason but it's a convenient cover label--the reality is that they're scared. This is about fragile P5 egos, greed, and money. They have most of it, they want more of it because they're afraid of what we'd be able to accomplish if we had a larger share. Go look up an MVC or even an HL team's schedule back when the P5 scheduled more equitably. Notice how many times the little guy whipped their behinds. That's why they don't come back. They know full well we're good enough to beat them especially if they cede us homecourt advantage. Come into an MVC gym leave with a loss.
Look at the tournament runs. Look what we can do when we're given so much as a neutral floor to play on. The MVC crashed their RPI party in the mid-late 2000's and they were so unnerved by that that they spent a decade+ trying to find a new system to ensure that that never happened again. We may not crack the code again but you can be absolutely certain that the team(s) we do send are well-prepared and will make opponents work for every basket and every victory. MVC teams can and will beat you and if they can't they go down swinging. Look at Bradley Look at UNI Look at SIU Look at Loyola Look at Wichita State. You think all those deep runs and the fact that we have as many Final 4 appearances as the Big 12 and more than the PAC 12 since 2013 is an accident?
Finally, look at our own history. Ask Florida State about their trip to the ARC. Ask Alabama whether playing Valpo on a neutral floor was fun. Ask Oregon what it was like to play Valpo. Ask Maryland Boston College Ole Miss FSU and others how it feels to play Valpo in the tournament. The fact is Valpo and the MVC are a natural fit for reasons beyond geography and institutional makeup. Ever since the Drews came to town we've been the same kind of program. Now it's on the players coaches athletic department and fans to prove this correct.
So show up stand up be loud and be proud. We can't control whether we're given respect but we can control how hard we fight to earn it. So far everyone who has decision-making power seems to be fighting very hard and they deserve our support and commendation. Yes, it's a big hill to climb and yes it will take time and patience because there's a lot to do. That patience will be tested and frustration will be a factor as it has been already but trust me when we get there I promise it'll all be worth it. You'll see. Go Valpo!
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 11, 2018, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: may know on December 11, 2018, 06:43:53 PM
"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another"
Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one
True. As I stated before, the Horizon League as constructed in 2017 was never going to win an opening round game, much less make it to the 2nd weekend or beyond. Good move by Valpo to get out when they did.
Agreed, no argument from me on the state of the HL 2017. But we cannot ignore the windfall the HL received from Butler 2010 and 2011. It was as unlikely as Loyola in the Final Four if not less likely considering back-to-back.
I'm just not going to agree the MVC move was a slam dunk move based on a feat (Loyola 2018) that an HL team previously did better at. IF Loyola drew more competition early in the NCAA we wouldn't be sitting her praising them. But that's hardly the point.....give me 5-years to compare the leagues and our perceived pecking order and I'll write glowing "beat writer" esque posts like VU1314!!!
Note: MVC move re-made Loyola, so I have high hopes for Valpo too!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 11, 2018, 06:23:49 PMQuote from: FWalum on December 11, 2018, 06:11:43 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2018, 03:26:07 PMQuote from: Valpo2013 on December 11, 2018, 11:04:54 AMQuote from: crusadermoe on December 11, 2018, 10:27:30 AMOk. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.
Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another
Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!
Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!
FWIW the only part of VU1314's post that has proven true to date is money coming from Loyola Final Four run + institutional fit (which means what in regards to tangible benefits?) I'm not a naysayer, I'm a "let's see" sayer. It's great that you all are ecstatic, but root it in reality sometimes 🤪😳🤷🏻♂️ Presently we have QUITE the MVC hill to climb. I'm excited for the journey but I'm going to wait and see on all the other proclamations by VU1314.
Let's see... Higher ceiling\floor not yet fully established after 1 year but it'll get there.
HL: Nearly all heavy lifting done by Butler and Bruce Pearl at Milwaukee. Both are gone.
Populated by commuter schools so difficult to build fanbase Has at least one school (Youngstown State) that does not give a rip about basketball leading to a permanent RPI dragMVC: Loyola had a higher seed than post-Butler HL teams and took full advantage Much heavy lifting done by Creighton and Wichita State BUT with strong assists from programs like Bradley SIU UNI and Loyola. Strong group of schools still intact with position to add.
HL: Milwaukee and Cleveland State recently hire new coaches No one cares
MVC: Evansville hires a new coach season ticket sales spike Fan interest increases dramatically
Recruiting: I can't prove this yet but getting Gordon and Robinson coming off a last place league finish and sub .500 record has to be a pretty positive indication. Also not sure if Freeman commits\sticks around if we had had a major hiccup in the HL.
Scheduling upgrade: MVC schedule> HL schedule. Even if they do nothing else that's a win but you know they'll work to improve this. MVC teams have access to better series. Look at UNI Illinois State and SIU for proof of this. I feel confident in saying that the last time an HL team got an in-season home and home the caliber of SIU-Buffalo was when we played Belmont twice a few years ago Illinois State got a P5 home and home with Ole Miss Indiana State recently had Butler UNI recently had Xavier Valpo should start to occasionally see those games too especially as they improve.
Rivalry potential: You don't think having two in-state teams with tradition, three more basketball focused tournament minded schools within 2.5 hours and four more great historic programs with pedigree who all play tough hard nosed physical basketball will create friction and rivalries when forced to play us twice?
Increased effort: New equipment dedicated funding drives (for AC and such) hiring a marketing firm the Lake County practice the WJOB Interview new promotions like 219 night are all great early examples and this should evolve and grow over time. I'd say a lot has been accomplished in just under 18 months since the move
Increased TV Exposure: We were on TV multiple times in Chicago last year and will be again this year That didn't happen in the HL Our conference preview aired throughout the midwest. That never happened in the HL. We had a game on CBSSN and we had at least as many ESPN 2\ESPNU games as we ever had in any HL regular season if not more. It's all already happening. Just because you haven't seen it for whatever reason doesn't mean it's not.
And yes if we can get 4000-5000 in for a big game against Wright State or Green Bay when we're contending as we did in the recent past we can darn certainly draw those numbers for an MVC team when we're in the hunt. We just need to win and keep up the good work that is already being done behind the scenes and they will come. Then you'll see it all start to fall into place and come to fruition. Keep the faith and go Valpo!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 11, 2018, 08:26:28 PMQuote from: EddieCabot on December 11, 2018, 07:06:56 PMQuote from: may know on December 11, 2018, 06:43:53 PM"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another" Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one
True. As I stated before, the Horizon League as constructed in 2017 was never going to win an opening round game, much less make it to the 2nd weekend or beyond. Good move by Valpo to get out when they did.
Agreed, no argument from me on the state of the HL 2017. But we cannot ignore the windfall the HL received from Butler 2010 and 2011. It was as unlikely as Loyola in the Final Four if not less likely considering back-to-back. I'm just not going to agree the MVC move was a slam dunk move based on a feat (Loyola 2018) that an HL team previously did better at. IF Loyola drew more competition early in the NCAA we wouldn't be sitting her praising them. But that's hardly the point.....give me 5-years to compare the leagues and our perceived pecking order and I'll write glowing "beat writer" esque posts like VU1314!!! Note: MVC move re-made Loyola, so I have high hopes for Valpo too!
Nobody's ignoring what Butler or even Milwaukee did back then and the money it generated but it seems to me that you're neglecting the contributions of Bradley SIU and UNI in your assessment of the MVC and its value. Also the fact that Loyola went on this run after Wichita State left is significant. Meanwhile the Horizon League did nothing in the tournament after Butler
Furthermore the MVC WITHOUT Wichita State has been as strong or stronger than the Horizon League WITH Butler. The metrics don't compare nowadays. Add these facts to all the benefits I've outlined in previous posts that are already being realized and Valpo's position in the league isn't as relevant when calculating the overall benefits of MVC membership especially at this early juncture.
Of course we'll have to keep winning in order to keep the momentum going and move the program forward. I've been on record saying that I will not tolerate mediocrity forever and neither will any self-respecting fan, but if we suck it won't be the MVC's fault that we suck.
The point is we'll probably never dominate like we used to but that's fine. I'm fine with sharing the load as long as we still win our share which we should. Put succinctly, the HL is a good place to be if you're the dominant power which no program is forever but the MVC is good for its members regardless of their position in the conference
Some insight into Indiana State as we head toward conference play.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/indiana-state-has-reinforcements-on-the-way/
CBS Sports will air its Four Sides of the Story Documentary on Loyola's run December 17 at 6 PM CT Too bad most of us will be busy with other matters like watching the Crusaders take on Ball State. I guess we'll just have to record it and watch later.
There will be a follow up interview with Porter Moser on December 22 at 8 PM CT on CBS Sports Network for those interested.
All the information can be found here:
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/loyola-back-in-the-national-spotlight/
Here's an article that was re-tweeted by Paul O.
https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20181213/one-and-done-missouri-valley-basketball-once-again-looks-like-one-bid-league (https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20181213/one-and-done-missouri-valley-basketball-once-again-looks-like-one-bid-league)
Head on over to MVCFans if you want to see an anti-Valpo post get totally eviscerated (I helped too).
That's why I was cheering Saturday when UNI trailed Dubuque by 10 late in their own building.
UNI Delusion is a real thing.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 14, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
Head on over to MVCFans if you want to see an anti-Valpo post get totally eviscerated (I helped too).
Link to the Topic/Posts?
Start from the top of the page.
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4857&start=620
A solid scheduling get for Bradley. That's a team I'd love to see Valpo play (hopefully in a H and H). Start it @Valpo next year then try to get a game against Nova on the return in PHI or start a series on the road vs Penn or perhaps LaSalle\Drexel.
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1073629859883159553
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 14, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
Head on over to MVCFans if you want to see an anti-Valpo post get totally eviscerated (I helped too).
Can't believe some idiot is complaining about the ARC not being air-conditioned, in the middle of December! Wonder if he understands that even mighty Butler's arena isn't air-conditioned!
UNI shouldn't really care that Valpo was added over Murray State. They've been nowhere close to a tournament team for 3 years now, so it doesn't even affect them. If anything, they would have been below .500 with Murray State in the conference last year.
Valpo going 7-4 out of conference vs Murray State going 6-3 is hardly any difference. Murray State would not have won 18 conference games last year. This year Murray State is better than Valpo, but they're not playing a schedule that could get them an at-large, so it's not like this swap would do anything meaningful for the rest of the league.
Quote from: a3uge on December 15, 2018, 09:39:58 AMThis year Murray State is better than Valpo, but they're not playing a schedule that could get them an at-large, so it's not like this swap would do anything meaningful for the rest of the league.
Their only loss was close at #66 Alabama. If they could somehow win at #16 Auburn plus lose only to now #22 Belmont then a 4 loss Murray St could make a great argument for an at-large bid.
Will that happen? Probably not, but if a healthy Murray team was now in the MVC I'm having trouble finding 5 losses for them and a 17-3 record (11 team double round robin) is easier to imagine. So if we can picture Murray losing in St.Louis and having only 5 losses on selection Sunday then they would have to be in. They might even get in with 6 losses. :thumbsup:
Peeked at the UNI board and noticed the same idiot preaching how Iowa's Bohannon was the worst defender in the B1G and AJ Green would be licking his chops.
He then held AJ Green to 2 points. :thumbsup:
Also noticed he believes UNI has a "realistic option" of receiving a MWC invite in conjunction with Gonzaga, BYU, & Wichita - and that UNI needs to escape the Valley.
The SDSU bloodbath and Dubuque squeaker does not appear to have humbled him. I'm sure he'll be right back griping about Valpo.
And the factual smackdown I laid (except for the one about when they finished above.500 in conference. I misread because my eyes were tired from all the research and typing I had done He pretty much dropped the matter after that.
0-6 so far. Brutally bad day with some really bad losses. EVERYBODY including us needs to pick it up. The multibid dream is almost completely dead this year after this slew of bad losses but I can't help but think that we have a chance to be much better than last year. I'm not saying we'll win but we should do a lot better. Go Valpo!
But before anyone overreacts to tonight's debacle just remember that our first conference only has one team above .500 (SDSU) and our second conference only has 2 and no top 100 RPI teams The MVC has 3 top 100 teams 2 top 100 NET teams and 4 teams rated higher than even the first NET team in the HL or SL.
Tonight was terrible no question but nights like this seem to be a far more frequent occurrence elsewhere. We should all still be very glad to be where we are.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 15, 2018, 11:55:00 PM
And the factual smackdown I laid (except for the one about when they finished above.500 in conference. I misread because my eyes were tired from all the research and typing I had done He pretty much dropped the matter after that.
0-6 so far. Brutally bad day with some really bad losses. EVERYBODY including us needs to pick it up. The multibid dream is almost completely dead this year after this slew of bad losses but I can't help but think that we have a chance to be much better than last year. I'm not saying we'll win but we should do a lot better. Go Valpo!
The multi bid dream this year is without a doubt dead. No one has close to the number of qualities wins to build an at-large case considering their losses.
Valpo should be better, if not because the team is actually better, then because the league is worse than last season. Currently Valpo is ranked in about the same spot in Kenpom as they were at the end of last season (157 this year vs. 150 last year). Doesn't mean this is the new norm for the MVC, but currently this is the lowest ranking (in overall score, not the conference rank) since the 2001-02 season for the MVC on Kenpom. The bottom of the league still isn't bad, but the teams at the top just haven't been as good as expected.
I'm not sure what is wrong with Illinois State this season. I'm not sure if it's health or a lack of focus but they have been very disappointing when it comes to preseason expectations.
https://twitter.com/pg_benson/status/1074413025958989825?s=21
Father Harry is NOT HAPPY with the P5.
I agree with the idea of taking 2 for 1s if it means getting the P5 teams to at least travel every once in awhile. Buy games too. Let's take them and beat them. The strategy is working for the SOCON WCC MAC and OVC this year so why shouldn't we try to beat them at their own game?
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/money-conference-teams-need-more-home-games/
Great article on Drake. It seems like they're everything we wish we were right now.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/bullish-on-the-bulldogs/
The problem with Illinois State is their defensive guru assistant coach left and went to Michigan. Look at all the success Michigan had last year and are now having this year.
And Muller recommended him to Beilein... A wonderfully selfless act on his part but certainly damaging to his program.
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1076900980493615104
Quote from: VU2014 on December 23, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1076900980493615104
Those numbers are only current as of December 21. Expect a significant change in them when they are updated. SIU will drop while Drake and Indiana State will rise significantly especially if both schools can win today.
The KenPom preseason rankings for the MVC had Indiana State 7th and Drake 10th in the conference (valpo was picked 6th). With this weekend's wins by Indiana State over Colorado and UNLV, they are currently 8-3, and with yesterday's win over New Mexico State, Drake is 9-2. Nice to see some teams are exceeding expectations!
That's why putting so much stock into preseason and early season KenPom rankings is so laughable.
Analytics are important...when they're used correctly.
Quote from: valpopal on December 23, 2018, 06:08:25 PM
The KenPom preseason rankings for the MVC had Indiana State 7th and Drake 10th in the conference (valpo was picked 6th). With this weekend's wins by Indiana State over Colorado and UNLV, they are currently 8-3, and with yesterday's win over New Mexico State, Drake is 9-2. Nice to see some teams are exceeding expectations!
Indiana State was preseason #150 on Kenpom. They're now at #131. Drake is definitely exceeding expectations (started at #222 and are now at #143), but Indiana State is still in the same relative area they were prior to the season starting. Evansville is the other MVC team that is outperforming their preseason Kenpom rating. Every other team is down unfortunately.
Indiana State is playing well in their tourney...should win it
Quote from: valpo64 on December 24, 2018, 01:54:13 PM
Indiana State is playing well in their tourney...should win it
They're a 10 pointish underdog to TCU. Granted, there's the motivation factor which is clearly in Indiana State's favor, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a major upset if they won this tournament.
Quote from: IrishDawg on December 24, 2018, 02:10:21 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on December 24, 2018, 01:54:13 PM
Indiana State is playing well in their tourney...should win it
They're a 10 pointish underdog to TCU. Granted, there's the motivation factor which is clearly in Indiana State's favor, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a major upset if they won this tournament.
ISUb lost, as expected, but they did put up a fight after going down big in the 2nd half.
On a positive note, Drake won their tournament, beating San Diego to 2OT. First time I've seen them play ... was impressed by their shooting, but more importantly, their toughness and togetherness. Drake isn't overly talented, but they seem to be cohesive and willing to battle to the end. Those qualities alone put them near the top of the MVC.
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
The Drake AD made two back-to-back homerun coaching hires. Medved was a top notch coach and it's even more impressive what DeVries has done with this cobbled together roster. Something to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search. DeVries was McDermott's right hand man at Creighton and had 17 years of experience as an assistant coach there (20 years total).
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
The Drake AD made two back-to-back homerun coaching hires. Medved was a top notch coach and it's even more impressive what DeVries has done with this cobbled together roster. Something to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search. DeVries was McDermott's right hand man at Creighton and had 17 years of experience as an assistant coach there (20 years total).
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PMSomething to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search
A rather unveiled attack on Mark's decision that has yet to be proven right or wrong. We do know that this approach has worked very well at a school located to our South. Why not be a little patient?
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
The Drake AD made two back-to-back homerun coaching hires. Medved was a top notch coach and it's even more impressive what DeVries has done with this cobbled together roster. Something to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search. DeVries was McDermott's right hand man at Creighton and had 17 years of experience as an assistant coach there (20 years total).
Yeah I would cool it with the whole "home run hire" thing until Drake appears in the tournament, or at least finishes above .500 for the fist time in 8 years.
Quote from: vu72 on December 28, 2018, 06:53:15 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
The Drake AD made two back-to-back homerun coaching hires. Medved was a top notch coach and it's even more impressive what DeVries has done with this cobbled together roster. Something to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search. DeVries was McDermott's right hand man at Creighton and had 17 years of experience as an assistant coach there (20 years total).
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PMSomething to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search
A rather unveiled attack on Mark's decision that has yet to be proven right or wrong. We do know that this approach has worked very well at a school located to our South. Why not be a little patient?
I actually didn't mean to take a shot at ML there, but in hindsight it definitely came off that way. I think the hire from within model is actually a good one if you think you have a HC material on staff already. I guess you don't really know till you hand the keys to the ship over and let them captain the ship for a while. Butler struck gold with Holtzman, who had his fair share of doubters when he took the Head job at Butler but proved many wrong.
With that particular 2015-16 season we probably would have seen a significant amount of transfers and the chances of AP leaving probably would have been greater if they hired someone from the outside.
I hope ML is taking in knowledgable opinions/evaluations from the outside on Coach Lottich's body of work here. He has a big decision coming up in the near future about this programs future if the deal was a 4 year deal. I don't expect him or want him to listen to a message board about this topic but I hope he's reaching out to some credible basketball minds about evaluating the head coach.
Quote from: a3uge on December 28, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
Yeah I would cool it with the whole "home run hire" thing until Drake appears in the tournament, or at least finishes above .500 for the fist time in 8 years.
That's fair. All I meant was that both guys have impressed in their short amount of time there and given the circumstances of the rosters.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
The Drake AD made two back-to-back homerun coaching hires. Medved was a top notch coach and it's even more impressive what DeVries has done with this cobbled together roster. Something to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search. DeVries was McDermott's right hand man at Creighton and had 17 years of experience as an assistant coach there (20 years total).
Drake had 2 winning seasons in 10 years prior to hiring Medved and DeVries. The last 4 of those 10 years were led by Ray Giacoletti, who had a combined 38-86 W/L record, including back-to-back 7-24 seasons before he was fired. Prior to being named Drake's head coach, Giacoletti was an assistant at Gonzaga from 2007-2013. Prior to that he was Utah's head coach from 2004-2007, where he won conference coach of the year honors in 2004 and 2005.
2 points here.
1. Giacoletti was a "dream" outside hire, yet he was a complete bust at Drake. While the newest "outside" guy appears to be off to a good start, it's way too early to determine whether he will be able to turn the program around.
2. Drake has looked outside for their coaches because their program has been a bust for the past decade. Their only choice has been to clean house and start over.
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2018, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on December 28, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Some well-deserved praise for Drake.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/12/27/18156731/drake-missouri-valley-college-basketball-mcglynn-devries-norton-ellingson-illinois-chicago-loyola
They might just be the MVC's best chance at tournament success this year. They aren't the most talented outfit in the conference but they play the way MVC teams that have been successful in the tournament historically have played.
The Drake AD made two back-to-back homerun coaching hires. Medved was a top notch coach and it's even more impressive what DeVries has done with this cobbled together roster. Something to note: the Drake AD didn't limit the coaching search to former assistants in their coaching search. DeVries was McDermott's right hand man at Creighton and had 17 years of experience as an assistant coach there (20 years total).
Drake had 2 winning seasons in 10 years prior to hiring Medved and DeVries. The last 4 of those 10 years were led by Ray Giacoletti, who had a combined 38-86 W/L record, including back-to-back 7-24 seasons before he was fired. Prior to being named Drake's head coach, Giacoletti was an assistant at Gonzaga from 2007-2013. Prior to that he was Utah's head coach from 2004-2007, where he won conference coach of the year honors in 2004 and 2005.
2 points here.
1. Giacoletti was a "dream" outside hire, yet he was a complete bust at Drake. While the newest "outside" guy appears to be off to a good start, it's way too early to determine whether he will be able to turn the program around.
2. Drake has looked outside for their coaches because their program has been a bust for the past decade. Their only choice has been to clean house and start over.
Hopefully we won't need to do the same thing. Fingers crossed, Coach Lottich can figure things out.
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2018, 08:59:44 PM
2. Drake has looked outside for their coaches because their program has been a bust for the past decade. Their only choice has been to clean house and start over.
Yes, it only makes sense to hire from within when you lose your head coach to a larger program because of his success. Valpo was able to do that when Homer retired (both times) and when Bryce was lured away due to his success in the NIT.
Coach Lottich inherited a senior-laden and talented team, but he also was handed a roster that was extremely unbalanced class-wise, a step up in conference and facilities that are not top notch. I think he deserves some time.
Lastly, for all of the people stating Lottich should go, provide me a list of candidates lining up to take a job that's bottom/near bottom in the MVC in terms of salary and facilities. I think this is the reason that Coach Lottich will get a few more years to show he's the right guy at Valpo.
These are very good points. Tomorrow begins the turn around me hopes.
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 28, 2018, 09:39:26 PM
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2018, 08:59:44 PM
2. Drake has looked outside for their coaches because their program has been a bust for the past decade. Their only choice has been to clean house and start over.
Yes, it only makes sense to hire from within when you lose your head coach to a larger program because of his success. Valpo was able to do that when Homer retired (both times) and when Bryce was lured away due to his success in the NIT.
Coach Lottich inherited a senior-laden and talented team, but he also was handed a roster that was extremely unbalanced class-wise, a step up in conference and facilities that are not top notch. I think he deserves some time.
Lastly, for all of the people stating Lottich should go, provide me a list of candidates lining up to take a job that's bottom/near bottom in the MVC in terms of salary and facilities. I think this is the reason that Coach Lottich will get a few more years to show he's the right guy at Valpo.
EddieCabot is our board's enigma. Most of the time, he is chiding us for our ridiculous overreactions and Valpo homerism, but every now and then, he posts something that actually seems genuine. Well done, my friend, as you continue to confound me :thumbsup:.
Turn around?
Cmon
We are playing a team of commuter kids
Salary isn't as big an issue as you expect. Coaches come to mid majors as stepping stone to a high six or seven figure contract at a P5, or to resurrect a career after being fired from a P5 where they've already made money. From why we've seen on past salary we're competitive enough that that in and of itself wouldn't cost us a candidate.
Now (insert facility rant here) could. And the fact that we're the fourth most popular college team in our own town.
All the talk about schedules is fine. I understand according to our Athletic Director the difficulty
But
To play teams like
Riverside
SIU Edwardsville
Monmouth (although part of a tournament )
These are some of the worst in the nation
We have to be able to schedule better than that
I guess some might have said Valpo made a home run hire after we started 10-0 last year. Things can change quickly with an occasional illness or key player being ruled ineligible. Looking forward to seeing some basketball today.
Quote from: vu72 on December 29, 2018, 10:44:34 AM
I guess some might have said Valpo made a home run hire after we started 10-0 last year. Things can change quickly with an occasional illness or key player being ruled ineligible. Looking forward to seeing some basketball today.
I'll admit I wanted to drink the kool aid after that 10-0 start, but that was a very soft 10 games. Last season was a mess with Tevonn's mono, Burton's exit.
I'm excited basketball is back but we need to start to see this team compete more consistently.
Wow
You really drink the kool aid
A large part of the current scheduling issues come from coaches scheduling based on the algorithm/formula of the RPI. Now that were in the NET formula, coaches are having to learn that concept and schedule within the indicators of how it will set them up for at-large or conference outcomes for getting into the NCAA tournament in coming years. We're just so caught up in the fact that our program isn't living up to statistical expectations.
Valpo's biggest issues aren't in the stats, I see the problems more in who on this roster has bought into the philosophy. Most of the guys are this roster are new to Valpo, maybe not college basketball, but VALPO. We have ZERO 4-year Crusaders, ZERO leaders who have bought into the philosophy that this team has a direction that is going forward, and ZERO players stepping up to make the season look salvageable. It would help Matt Lottich if he had anyone on this roster that wasn't just here for the betterment of their individual stats or playing time. The only starters on our roster that were recruited to Valpo out of high school are Javon Freeman and Derrik Smits. After this, we have Sorolla, McMillan, Kiser, and a bunch of fill-ins from other schools, who have to sit the season as a transfer requirement. Lavender is only on the roster because he's a senior with a year to kill. Fazekas is still getting into his basketball groove. Evelyn thinks he's the man, but his shot just isn't falling like the confident shooter's shot should. This team is a mess because NO ONE is defined as the go-getter/go-to.
Monmouth is having a very abnormal year for their program. There is no way that anyone saw an 0-12 start coming for them.
Also, I see a lot of people knocking Fazekas. If being off is shooting over 40% from 3, we could use a lot more shooters who are off :).
Quote from: valpotx on December 30, 2018, 01:51:46 PM
Also, I see a lot of people knocking Fazekas. If being off is shooting over 40% from 3, we could use a lot more shooters who are off :) .
Speaking of 3-point percentage, I just checked Alec Peters, and he is shooting a terrific 56.6% from the 3-point line in Euroleague play. :thumbsup:
"Welcome to the Missouri Valley Conference!" Now where did he got that title? Anyone on this board know?
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/welcome-to-the-missouri-valley-conference/
One of Drake's top players is done for the year with a knee injury.
Yep. Here's a quote from Valleyhoopsinsider.com:
Drake went to Evansville looking to build on their 11-2 record, but early in the first half, star guard Nick Norton went down with a knee injury. The Bulldogs hung tough and took the Purple Aces into double overtime before losing 82-77. The biggest story of the night is Norton's injury.
And, more recently, from the Drake site:
Drake University senior Nick Norton's knee injury suffered in Wednesday night's game at Evansville will force the guard to miss the remainder of the 2018-19 season, head men's basketball coach Darian DeVries announced Friday, Jan. 4. Norton suffered an injury to his left knee late in the first half of the Drake men's basketball team's double-overtime loss at Evansville while driving to the basket. Norton's injury was evaluated Thursday and following an MRI, team physicians determined Norton tore the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee. Surgery to repair the ligament will be performed at a date to be determined.
Norton was a transfer from UAB (teammate of our own Deion Lavender). He had a previous knee injury in 2016-17. That's a real shame. Drake's OOC start showed real promise in lifting the overall rating of the conference nationally.
That's very unfortunate. They were the best MVC story of the noncomference. Hope they can rally and salvage at least a decent season.
Very unfortunate for Drake fans!
We beat Drake twice last year and we return just about everybody. They graduated just about everybody and now lost their stud transfer.
If we are progressing the way we should and Lottich is who we need him to be this is a series we should sweep this year.
If not it shows the power of coaching and will show that Drake has found not just a good coach but a GREAT coach if he can take a cobbled together roster in his 1st year and win with it through in spite of major injury.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 04, 2019, 10:36:05 AMNorton was a transfer from UAB (teammate of our own Deion Lavender). He had a previous knee injury in 2016-17.
From all accounts he was a candidate for MVC Player of the Year! Terrible for him, for Drake and for the Valley. Norton must have been the reason Deion was only the backup point (shifted over from the #2) at UAB.
I hope he recover and moves on with his future endeavors. What a bummer
Could be a major pickup for Evansville
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1083770489972146176
When will he be eligible? Good to see that program on the move!
Mid-December. Should have 1.5 years but Evansville is going to try to get a waiver to allow him to play at the start of next year.
https://amp.courierpress.com/amp/2475447002?__twitter_impression=true
Saw this on MVCFans and had to share.
A winter weather advisory hasn't stopped UE from selling out the lower bowl for ISU tomorrow. UE says they're 200 tix from #MovingTheCurtain as of yesterday.
ISU@Loyola is sold out. Loyola's 3rd sellout (Furman, Nevada). Last year's ISU/Loyola game had secondary ticket prices so high it eclipsed the Blackhawks, Bulls, & Blue Demons combined.
Valpo fans (present company excluded) need to step up The weekend games especially better be packed.
Indiana State and Evansville should sell out every time they play as they are only a little over 100 miles apart. That has been a big rivalry for years.
Does anyone see this Valpo team as a decent tourney team right now? I don't. We've looked better the last few games but it's WAY to early to be talking about potentially winning the Valley. This team would need to elevate their game to another level and get hot going into Arch Madness.
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1083811957331894282?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on January 11, 2019, 04:16:38 PM
Does anyone see this Valpo team as a decent tourney team right now? I don't. We've looked better the last few games but it's WAY to early to be talking about potentially winning the Valley. This team would need to elevate their game to another level and get hot going into Arch Madness.
Valpo once again has a characteristically good mix of talented players without a dominant star. These kinds of teams always have to get all the pieces working together to really shine and tend to struggle as they work out the communication challenges and develop their strengths. I happen to think that the reintegration of J into the lineup, after a dominant start with Smits as the offensive linchpin may have may have introduced just enough disruption in the latter portion of the OOC schedule to cause an offensive stumble (along with the confidence-sapping perimeter inconsistencies). Teams with a dominant scorer sometimes start out quicker, but may have limited upside.
I like our puzzle pieces and they're starting to fit together nicely to where we could challenge consistently toward the end, but there are still a few areas to shore up as far as performance. As for needing to reach another level, I ask, "how high and to surpass whom?"
A lot of bracket predictions, especially this early in the year, places the 1st place team in. Really nothing to see or take out of this ar this point in time
I will say this about the MVC. I genuinely look forward to watching the other games around the league. Really looking forward to ISUr and Loyola as an appetizer to the Valpo game. Might even catch the nightcap before the NFL game. I can count on on hand the number of Horizon games I watched over the years that didn't involve Valpo.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 12, 2019, 11:16:59 AM
I will say this about the MVC. I genuinely look forward to watching the other games around the league. Really looking forward to ISUr and Loyola as an appetizer to the Valpo game. Might even catch the nightcap before the NFL game. I can count on on hand the number of Horizon games I watched over the years that didn't involve Valpo.
Agreed. It's genuinely fun to follow the league. We didn't have that same experience in the Horizon when we were there.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 12, 2019, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 12, 2019, 11:16:59 AM
I will say this about the MVC. I genuinely look forward to watching the other games around the league. Really looking forward to ISUr and Loyola as an appetizer to the Valpo game. Might even catch the nightcap before the NFL game. I can count on on hand the number of Horizon games I watched over the years that didn't involve Valpo.
Agreed. It's genuinely fun to follow the league. We didn't have that same experience in the Horizon when we were there.
Here Here I say!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 11, 2019, 12:48:32 PM
Saw this on MVCFans and had to share.
A winter weather advisory hasn't stopped UE from selling out the lower bowl for ISU tomorrow. UE says they're 200 tix from #MovingTheCurtain as of yesterday.
ISU@Loyola is sold out. Loyola's 3rd sellout (Furman, Nevada). Last year's ISU/Loyola game had secondary ticket prices so high it eclipsed the Blackhawks, Bulls, & Blue Demons combined.
Valpo fans (present company excluded) need to step up The weekend games especially better be packed.
It may be a sellout but not a packed house. Maybe it's the weather.
https://twitter.com/JCTSports/status/1084167074581282817
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 12, 2019, 12:14:14 PMQuote from: VU2014 on January 12, 2019, 11:38:23 AMQuote from: NativeCheesehead on January 12, 2019, 11:16:59 AMI will say this about the MVC. I genuinely look forward to watching the other games around the league. Really looking forward to ISUr and Loyola as an appetizer to the Valpo game. Might even catch the nightcap before the NFL game. I can count on on hand the number of Horizon games I watched over the years that didn't involve Valpo.
Agreed. It's genuinely fun to follow the league. We didn't have that same experience in the Horizon when we were there.
Here Here I say!
I find the league very entertaining and competitive. I went to the Arch Madness tourney last year and was not disappointed. Most games were decided in the last 2 minutes and the fans were all highly engaged.
The Valley is a lot more fun than the HL. You can tell there are some rivalries going on. To anyone on the fence about going to Arch Madness this year, I don't think you would regret giving it a try.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 12, 2019, 01:20:32 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 11, 2019, 12:48:32 PMSaw this on MVCFans and had to share. A winter weather advisory hasn't stopped UE from selling out the lower bowl for ISU tomorrow. UE says they're 200 tix from #MovingTheCurtain as of yesterday. ISU@Loyola is sold out. Loyola's 3rd sellout (Furman, Nevada). Last year's ISU/Loyola game had secondary ticket prices so high it eclipsed the Blackhawks, Bulls, & Blue Demons combined. Valpo fans (present company excluded) need to step up The weekend games especially better be packed.
It may be a sellout but not a packed house. Maybe it's the weather. https://twitter.com/JCTSports/status/1084167074581282817
Woof.
The crowd for ISUr vs Loyola filled in very nicely. And Evansville drew 6100 fresh off a Winter Storm in a rebuilding year and are 3rd in the MVC in attendance in a rebuilding year. Fans better come out and support this team at the next home game.
Agreed about the league switch. Actually went to ILST/Loyola and had to buy off stubhub because it was sold out. Packed house except student section.
Went home and watched the tape of our game. VERY happy. Gotta hand it to ML.
More UNI fan fun.
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5180&p=118260#p118260
That UNItard is a moron who keeps breaking his own record for self-unawareness.
I highly encourage any Valpo fan with an account to eviscerate him.
His prediction of "every MVC team but Valpo can finish top 4" is looking real solid.
The Illinois State and UNI fans have been the roughest on Valpo entering the MVC, so every win over their programs gives me great satisfaction :)
Quote from: may know on January 13, 2019, 02:02:15 AMThat UNItard is a moron who keeps breaking his own record for self-unawareness. I highly encourage any Valpo fan with an account to eviscerate him. His prediction of "every MVC team but Valpo can finish top 4" is looking real solid.
I do my best to do so fairly factually and nicely and I think I do a decent job of accomplishing those goals. But they seem really entitled for some reason and I can't understand why some of them are so consistently hard on us.
Through 4 games in the valley we are are keeping our opponents to an average of 59.5 points. That stat is why we are winning. Golders half court heave doesn't account for this change of team attitude as we kept illst to 56 points.
I would have given a 0% chance of this team having the best defense in the league through 4 games. We literally were scored on at will in the non-con.
Good stats SanityLost. I can't believe the drastic change.
https://twitter.com/d1coachcorner/status/1084564608051015680
Couldn't help but notice former MVC member Wichita St. has yet to win a conference game this year.
Interesting data:
https://twitter.com/redbirdrecon/status/1087411443325169664?s=21
NCAA NET Rankings as of yesterday:
97 Loyola
133 Drake
156 Southern Illinois
161 Evansville
170 Valpo
180 Indiana State
187 Illinois State
192 Missouri State
197 UNI
227 Bradley
8 Schools between 133-197 with a couple outliers. Valpo right in the middle. If we had a time machine and played with our current intensity/confidence in the non-con I think we would be in the 140 range of the NET because realistically you are only looking at 2 or 3 more wins (High Point / Wake Forest / Ball State (maybe only because it was a home game).
I wonder what our RPI would be? Which one favors us, RPI or NET? Seems like NET has only hurt the mid-majors
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 22, 2019, 09:28:41 AM
I wonder what our RPI would be? Which one favors us, RPI or NET? Seems like NET has only hurt the mid-majors
Per Warren Nolan, Valpo's RPI would also be 170. The results are really all over the map. The NET is bad for Drake (-55), ISUb (-40) and UNI (-35), but good for UE (+49), MSU (+46) and Bradley (+26).
The NET ratings are much more in line with Ken Pom rankings, which makes sense since the NET is now incorporating team efficiency in its formula.
Quote from: EddieCabot on January 22, 2019, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 22, 2019, 09:28:41 AM
I wonder what our RPI would be? Which one favors us, RPI or NET? Seems like NET has only hurt the mid-majors
Per Warren Nolan, Valpo's RPI would also be 170. The results are really all over the map. The NET is bad for Drake (-55), ISUb (-40) and UNI (-35), but good for UE (+49), MSU (+46) and Bradley (+26).
The NET ratings are much more in line with Ken Pom rankings, which makes sense since the NET is now incorporating team efficiency in its formula.
It's a little disingenuous to criticize "the system" at this point. Clearly, our Crusaders dug their own NET/RPI grave by their lackluster effort prior to the PNW game. They lost games they should have won and performed inefficiently more often than not. They still have an excellent opportunity to turn a dismal beginning into a successful conclusion, but they will never shake the rating effects of a dismal OOC effort against a very weak lineup.
I don't think we can emphasize enough how much a strong finish, win or two in STL, and participation in one of the post season tourneys will benefit this program going into next year. One thing we have lacked recently is playing in games with both real stakes and real expectations, and that showed last week in Chicago. The more used to that we get, the less it will feel like the lights are too bright in big games.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 22, 2019, 11:41:41 AM
I don't think we can emphasize enough how much a strong finish, win or two in STL, and participation in one of the post season tourneys will benefit this program going into next year. One thing we have lacked recently is playing in games with both real stakes and real expectations, and that showed last week in Chicago. The more used to that we get, the less it will feel like the lights are too bright in big games.
I'd say the biggest game this squad has ever played in the MVC was that Loyola game, where we had any sense of expectations. The Thursday Arch Madness game was big but not many felt we'd make any noise so expectations were low.
MVC Coaches on Home Court Advantage\Winning on the Road
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/mvc-theres-no-place-like-home/
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1087871787063480321
What a crazy and fun conference! Loyola gets spanked by MO State by 35, and SIU comes back from being down by 21 with 1:35 left in the first half against UNI, and wins by 8.
Quote from: valpotx on January 24, 2019, 02:48:01 AM
What a crazy and fun conference! Loyola gets spanked by MO State by 35, and SIU comes back from being down by 21 with 1:35 left in the first half against UNI, and wins by 8.
The Loyola game might be the single biggest change in rankings for 2 teams on kenpom this year. Loyola went from #83 before the game to #129 now and Missouri State went from ranked #205 before the game to #162 after.
While going through the Horizon League with a high and reasonable expectation of winning the championship each year was nice, the broad parity of quality teams in the MVC is fun in a different way. Gives us VU fans a different type of excitement. I hope there are more years like this. As we sit here, the only team in the conference not tied with someone else is Bradley.
I think the grind and continuous coping with pressure will have our tournament champion much better prepared for the Dance. However, that parity, even in good years (if it continues), will likely mean a single bid each year.
I still think Loyola is the team to beat at the end of the season. They are champions unless proven otherwise. Valpo has a chance to knock them off the throne, but no more games like yesterday can happen.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 24, 2019, 02:08:50 PM
I still think Loyola is the team to beat at the end of the season. They are champions unless proven otherwise. Valpo has a chance to knock them off the throne, but no more games like yesterday can happen.
We just may end up tied for 1st with Loyola because they have as many let downs as Valpo, including a less than stellar performance at the ARC. One thing I recall is that in our game at the Gentile Center we were stiffled by Loyola's defense and they hit outside shot after outside shot. Krutwig's inside game was not particularly overwhelming as their shooting and defense was. If the Ramblers shooting is cold they can be vulnerable. I've not checked but Loyola's shooting couldn't have been good in that 11 point 2nd half at Missouri State.
From a story on the Loyola at MSU game in the Springfield News-Leader:
Missouri State ended the game by allowing just 11 second-half points and a total of nine rebounds. Nine rebounds are the fewest amount a team has grabbed all season in Division I basketball.
This win shows the Bears are onto something. Sure, they have room to grow this year but when Missouri State is knocking down shots, it can play with anyone.
Team Statistics
Game Stats LUC MSU
FG% .343 .634
3FG% .200 .522
FT% .818 .750
RB 9 28
TO 14 14
STL 7 6
Looking at KenPom predictions today, he has Valpo finishing at 9-9, tied with ISUr for 4th. That would keep them out of the Thursday games for teams 7 - 10.
However, KenPom has 7 teams (places 3 through 9) projected at 10-8, 9-9 or 8-10, so it's a fine line between being the 3 seed or playing on Thursday.
The MVC has also fallen to #16 in the KenPom conference rankings, which would be the lowest ranking in the KenPom archives that go back to 2002. The MVC trails the Ivy, WAC, Sun Belt and is just barely ahead of #17 CUSA. The Horizon is at #18.
What all this shows is that the MVC has no dominate teams and we've already seen some crazy results. Arch Madness will be wide open and if Valpo can get healthy, they'll have a great chance to make some noise.
Quote from: EddieCabot on January 30, 2019, 01:28:21 PMWhat all this shows is that the MVC has no dominate teams and we've already seen some crazy results. Arch Madness will be wide open and if Valpo can get healthy, they'll have a great chance to make some noise.
Due to our slower than expected start and multiple injuries it is too late to worry about NCAA seeding and too early to worry about strategizing for a win at St Louis. When healthy I still like us as a team that could be firing on all cylinders in March. Most team members are already meeting or exceeding my pre season expectations (maybe yours too?).
Any 8 man rotation has to be innovative to improve and create new looks. I would be tempted to start Mileek and have him set screen after screen after screen after screen until he either gets it right or fouls out. He either has to learn or watch from the end of the bench. Anything in between is a waste of everybody's time. You would think he could be a great threat with the pick and pop but ok, I know, its one step at a time. Given the 4 guard lineup reality we might also look for opportunities to show a brief double post look. It didn't work last year but both are now much improved both on offense and defense. Experiments now might give us an expanded playbook later.
Big loss for the Ramblers
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1090726368843829249
This new NET measure is really shaking things up. By losing 4 of our last 5 Valley games we have plummeted to 190 from our high of 171. Thats almost breathtaking! If we had won 4 of the last 5 we might be edging ever so close to 160. :o
Two really good articles came out over night about Sackey (NWI Times) and Lavender (The Telegraph) can someone please post!
I know the Sackey article is posted in another thread so here is the Lavender article. Deion has found the right fit (https://www.thetelegraph.com/sports/article/PETE-HAYES-Deion-has-found-the-right-fit-at-Valpo-13576349.php)
In a previous post on this thread, I remarked on the parity in this conference. I really enjoy it.
I did a little bit of comparing the different conference standings on the CBS Sports page on conference standings with a view toward parity. Here's my very unscientific conclusion: The MVC has the best parity in the country.
Here's how I get to that:
All of my stats below are based on conference play.
Only two teams are not tied. Three teams are tied for 3rd through 5th place. Two teams are tied for 6th through 7th place. Three teams are tied for 8th through 10th place.
The highest winning percentage of the last place team is .364. Only the MVC has a team with that high of a winning percentage for its last place team, and the MVC has three teams tied with that percentage. Only two other conferences have a last place team with a win percentage at .300 or more (.300 and .333). Seven of the other conferences has a last place team with a .000 winning percentage. The average winning percentage for the last place team for the country is .137, which is well less than half of that of the MVC. Which means that the average last place team in the country has won less than half the number of games that the last place team(s) in the MVC have won.
The MVC is tied for second place for the top team having the lowest winning percentage, which is .727. Two other conferences have their top team with a winning percentage of .700.
And finally, ...
The differential in winning percentage between the first place team and the last place team in the MVC is .363. That's the lowest differential in the country. Only two other conferences have a differential below .500 (one at .367, and one at .478). The average differential is .741. The average W/L differential for the country is more than twice that of the MVC. Three conferences have a differential of 1.000. In other words, in those three conferences, the top team is undefeated (1.000), and the last place team is winless (.000).
And parity kills..........
Quote from: 4throwfan on February 07, 2019, 05:42:36 PM
In a previous post on this thread, I remarked on the parity in this conference. I really enjoy it.
I did a little bit of comparing the different conference standings on the CBS Sports page on conference standings with a view toward parity. Here's my very unscientific conclusion: The MVC has the best parity in the country.
Here's how I get to that:
All of my stats below are based on conference play.
Only two teams are not tied. Three teams are tied for 3rd through 5th place. Two teams are tied for 6th through 7th place. Three teams are tied for 8th through 10th place.
The highest winning percentage of the last place team is .364. Only the MVC has a team with that high of a winning percentage for its last place team, and the MVC has three teams tied with that percentage. Only two other conferences have a last place team with a win percentage at .300 or more (.300 and .333). Seven of the other conferences has a last place team with a .000 winning percentage. The average winning percentage for the last place team for the country is .137, which is well less than half of that of the MVC. Which means that the average last place team in the country has won less than half the number of games that the last place team(s) in the MVC have won.
The MVC is tied for second place for the top team having the lowest winning percentage, which is .727. Two other conferences have their top team with a winning percentage of .700.
And finally, ...
The differential in winning percentage between the first place team and the last place team in the MVC is .363. That's the lowest differential in the country. Only two other conferences have a differential below .500 (one at .367, and one at .478). The average differential is .741. The average W/L differential for the country is more than twice that of the MVC. Three conferences have a differential of 1.000. In other words, in those three conferences, the top team is undefeated (1.000), and the last place team is winless (.000).
Nice post. Interesting and informative. :thumbsup:
Quote from: wh on February 07, 2019, 08:04:02 PM
Quote from: 4throwfan on February 07, 2019, 05:42:36 PM
In a previous post on this thread, I remarked on the parity in this conference. I really enjoy it.
I did a little bit of comparing the different conference standings on the CBS Sports page on conference standings with a view toward parity. Here's my very unscientific conclusion: The MVC has the best parity in the country.
Here's how I get to that:
All of my stats below are based on conference play.
Only two teams are not tied. Three teams are tied for 3rd through 5th place. Two teams are tied for 6th through 7th place. Three teams are tied for 8th through 10th place.
The highest winning percentage of the last place team is .364. Only the MVC has a team with that high of a winning percentage for its last place team, and the MVC has three teams tied with that percentage. Only two other conferences have a last place team with a win percentage at .300 or more (.300 and .333). Seven of the other conferences has a last place team with a .000 winning percentage. The average winning percentage for the last place team for the country is .137, which is well less than half of that of the MVC. Which means that the average last place team in the country has won less than half the number of games that the last place team(s) in the MVC have won.
The MVC is tied for second place for the top team having the lowest winning percentage, which is .727. Two other conferences have their top team with a winning percentage of .700.
And finally, ...
The differential in winning percentage between the first place team and the last place team in the MVC is .363. That's the lowest differential in the country. Only two other conferences have a differential below .500 (one at .367, and one at .478). The average differential is .741. The average W/L differential for the country is more than twice that of the MVC. Three conferences have a differential of 1.000. In other words, in those three conferences, the top team is undefeated (1.000), and the last place team is winless (.000).
Nice post. Interesting and informative. :thumbsup:
Thanks for taking the time to gather and present. I suppose the next question is....what does this parity mean for the MVC champion in the seeding?
Is it safe to say this level of parity actually hurts our auto-qualifier ??
My view is that it will be terrible for our tournament champion. Their reward for the grind will be a terrible seed.
The good news is that it makes every game at the ARC pretty fun. Can't say that about some nights while in the HL.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 07, 2019, 08:35:03 PM
Is it safe to say this level of parity actually hurts our auto-qualifier ??
Losses, no mater to whom, always does. Parity kills. Unless the MVC winner comes through virtually unscathed at the end of the regular season and tourney, we (the MVC) will be dumped on. And right now, even though we are quality teams that would destroy other mid-major leaders, we are killing each other every week. Not good for NCAA seeding, but it's a hell of a ride.
It doesn't help that the conference, as a whole, did not perform consistently well in the OOC part of the schedule. From NCAA's eyes, no team from the conference did well enough to separate itself. If the champ performed just well enough to get to the Dance, and comes from a conference that didn't do particularly well in pre-conference play, then there is no reason to award a high seed.
So, we should forget about the champ having a good seed, and simply enjoy the games until then.
Right now, the MVC rep could be playing in the First Four or whatever they call the nonsense in Dayton.
:crazy:
There has never been a 14th rated league with its rep in the play-in game.
Quote from: may know on February 07, 2019, 11:26:51 PM
:crazy:
There has never been a 14th rated league with its rep in the play-in game.
Agreed - other than the 16 seeds, league champs do not play in the First Four, so whoever wins the MVC won't have to worry about that.
But...the HL has to worry about it.
Quote from: may know on February 07, 2019, 11:26:51 PM:crazy: There has never been a 14th rated league with its rep in the play-in game.
So you're saying there's a chance.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 08, 2019, 12:11:53 PM
But...the HL has to worry about it.
Assuming the auto-bid comes from the top-5 teams, there's not a big difference between the conferences. Here is the KenPom/NET rankings for the top-5 in each (KenPom has MVC ranked 16th and the Horizon 18th):
1. 123/124
2. 135/141
3. 162/162
4. 167/159
5. 180/181
1. 87/108
2. 149/149
3. 176/189
4. 197/206
5. 202/207
Yikes. Hopefully Loyola is the #87 and we are the second group. Yes, the out-of-conference records were very poor! Missouri State beat Western Kentucky at home. Otherwise the MVC gagged.
Actually no I think that 87 is NKU
https://twitter.com/stlhensley/status/1093963603638669313?s=21
If Loyola wins Arch Madness, they'll get bumped up a seed line or two by virtue of the "returning Final Four team" thing, which the committee almost always does, even if subconsciously. Otherwise, the MVC rep's seeding will be somewhere between "uhhhh" and "NOT GREAT, BOB."
BTW, Illinois State lost to Mo State on a halfcourt buzzer-beater this weekend. Not sure what the odds are against losing that way after being ahead by 2 points twice in a span of five weeks, but it has to be astronomical. The MSU shot was from the same spot on the floor and in the same direction as Golder's shot, as well.
There have been highs and lows to being a valpo fan this year and obviously verdict is still out based on how they end the season/Arch Madness, but I do not envy any ISUr fans this year. They've been put through the ringer.
Reason to have hope for Arch Madness:
Look at our minutes distribution compared to Loyola: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401089312
Until Loyola gets Williamson back they are racking up a lot of minutes to get the job done. I am critical about Lottich's overall offensive game plan but I will say he has done a pretty good job dividing up minutes all MVC season long. Even losing Fazekas he still keeps minutes in check. A few exceptions but those were injury related necessities. Not exactly sure how other teams are distributing minutes but Lottich is trying to keep legs fresh for the home stretch. He could have really tightened the lineup for close games like Loyola but he really hasn't done so. Seeds 3-6 are fairly meaningless in many ways and if you have to kill all your best guys to get to 2 seed thats not worth it so yeah. Method to the madness.
My Current Hopes for Arch Madness:
1. We avoid Thursday
2. We avoid Illinois State all together. I could see that team with that chemistry laying an egg but I think they will be mad at us and they won't lay any sort of egg against us.
Anything else I don't care about. Whatever happens happens. If Fazekas can get into game shape over the last 4-6 games (or whatever he can play in) we will have 10 guys with game experience to roll with at Arch Madness. Sub early and sub often and go full defensive intensity and pray 3 of the 10 guys on any given night are hot from the field. Maybe with each passing game we become the team that owns the last 10 minutes.
Really inspiring story about a former Loyola walk-on Nick DiNardi.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/2/11/18220406/loyola-chicago-ramblers-walk-on-nick-dinardi-btb-foundation-ibd
As Oren points out all we need to have a good chance to avoid Thursday is to hold serve at home. 4-2 should get us out of the woods entirely but you never know in the MVC.
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5194&start=50
Next 7 days will be fun in the Valley...
Drake 10-6 NET 134 H- Ind State @ Mo St Lost twice to Loyola, Beat Mo State once
Loyola 10-6 NET 127 @ No Iowa H- Bradley Lost twice to Missouri State
Mo St 10-6 NET 159 @ Ill State H- Drake
No Iowa 9-7 NET 163 H- Loyola @ Ind State
Bradley 8-8 NET 178 H- Valpo @ Loyola
So Ill 8-8 NET 147 @ Evansville H-Ill State
Ill State 8-8 NET 202 H-Mo St @ So Ill
Valpo 7-9 NET 180 @ Bradley H-Evansville
Ind State 6-10 NET 196 @Drake H-No Iowa
Evansville 4-12 NET 206 H-So Ill @ Valpo
Tie Breaker:
Head-to-Head
If Still Tied. All tie breakers are the NET next Sunday morning.
Valpo's Road to Friday appears to be:
Win Twice, end at 9-9
Bradley loses twice falling to 8-10 If we beat Bradley and they beat Loyola, they will have a better NET than Valpo and Bradley will take the tie breaker.
If Northern Iowa loses twice to also end up at 9-9, we lose that Head-to-head tie breaker.
Either Illinois State or Southern Illinois loses twice 8-10. Only one can lose twice, since they play each other. We hold the tie breaker over the ISU-SIU winner if we tie either of them.
If Valpo loses on Wednesday, the best they can do is 7-seed if either SIU or ISUr lose twice.
So... Let's go to Carver Arena at the Peoria Civic Center and come out with a smile!
Other than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
Yep. Let's not forget what happened the first time this year's team took the floor.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 PMOther than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
There's nothing. Take away that 5-1 start and there's nothing to point to.
We are an 11 games under under .500 basketball team since last year's Utah State win. That cannot be allowed to stand much longer
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 PM
Other than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
The Illinois State road win for sure!!!!
Loyola at home was a high because of the game atmosphere and close win I would think.
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 24, 2019, 06:39:23 PMQuote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 PMOther than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
The Illinois State road win for sure!!!! Loyola at home was a high because of the game atmosphere and close win I would think.
Illinois State was part of that win streak.
That Loyola loss was far from a high. I don't do "good try." In fact that loss more than any other has shattered my hope for the future right now. Give me SOMETHING Matt! I'm begging you. I want to believe but I just can't.
Be patient my little grass hopper the season is still not over.... If, and that is a BIG IF we win the next 2 I am sure we will be singing a different tune.....until we lose in the conference tourney.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 PMOther than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
There's nothing. Take away that 5-1 start and there's nothing to point to.
We are an 11 games under under .500 basketball team since last year's Utah State win. That cannot be allowed to stand much longer
Wait, why are we taking away wins and using a start date of some random time last year?
Quote from: a3uge on February 24, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 PMOther than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
There's nothing. Take away that 5-1 start and there's nothing to point to.
We are an 11 games under under .500 basketball team since last year's Utah State win. That cannot be allowed to stand much longer
Wait, why are we taking away wins and using a start date of some random time last year?
Would you prefer that I add those 8 wins back in? Here are the numbers then:
29-32 (25-32 vs D1 competition) 13-21 in conference Any way you look at those numbers that's unsatisfactory.
This also includes losses to UCR and High Point and an 0 fer so far against in state schools Ball State Indiana State and Evansville.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 07:05:13 PM
Quote from: a3uge on February 24, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 PMOther than the 5 game win streak to open up league play, what's a high of the Valpo season? Honestly asking.
There's nothing. Take away that 5-1 start and there's nothing to point to.
We are an 11 games under under .500 basketball team since last year's Utah State win. That cannot be allowed to stand much longer
Wait, why are we taking away wins and using a start date of some random time last year?
Would you prefer that I add those 8 wins back in? Here are the numbers then:
29-32 (25-32 vs D1 competition) 13-21 in conference Any way you look at those numbers that's unsatisfactory.
This also includes losses to UCR and High Point and an 0 fer so far against in state schools Ball State Indiana State and Evansville.
Obviously still unsatisfactory, but those games happened. They were winning before getting a few injuries, which was a surprise considering how bad they did in conference last year. Im going to let these last few games play out before making a two-year assessment of the program.
Quote from: talksalot on February 24, 2019, 05:43:13 PM
Next 7 days will be fun in the Valley...
Drake 10-6 NET 134 H- Ind State @ Mo St Lost twice to Loyola, Beat Mo State once
Loyola 10-6 NET 127 @ No Iowa H- Bradley Lost twice to Missouri State
Mo St 10-6 NET 159 @ Ill State H- Drake
No Iowa 9-7 NET 163 H- Loyola @ Ind State
Bradley 8-8 NET 178 H- Valpo @ Loyola
So Ill 8-8 NET 147 @ Evansville H-Ill State
Ill State 8-8 NET 202 H-Mo St @ So Ill
Valpo 7-9 NET 180 @ Bradley H-Evansville
Ind State 6-10 NET 196 @Drake H-No Iowa
Evansville 4-12 NET 206 H-So Ill @ Valpo
Tie Breaker:
Head-to-Head
If Still Tied. All tie breakers are the NET next Sunday morning.
Valpo's Road to Friday appears to be:
Win Twice, end at 9-9
Bradley loses twice falling to 8-10 If we beat Bradley and they beat Loyola, they will have a better NET than Valpo and Bradley will take the tie breaker.
If Northern Iowa loses twice to also end up at 9-9, we lose that Head-to-head tie breaker.
Either Illinois State or Southern Illinois loses twice 8-10. Only one can lose twice, since they play each other. We hold the tie breaker over the ISU-SIU winner if we tie either of them.
If Valpo loses on Wednesday, the best they can do is 7-seed if either SIU or ISUr lose twice.
So... Let's go to Carver Arena at the Peoria Civic Center and come out with a smile!
Wardle is a lot like Hinson. Those are the two coaches that we have faced in previous conferences and they continuously lose at Valpo. Too bad the game is in Peoria.
This game is for everything. Lose and we're for sure a Thursday team. Win and we still have hope of a top 6 finish. Go Valpo! Play like your season depends on it!
I refuse to celebrate a BLOWN loss at home to Loyola as a high point of the season! If your expectation is that we can draw 5,000 fans once a season that's full of hopefuls who WANT this to be a rivalry and potentially even WANT Valpo to be The Region's Team only to have their dreams CRUSHED with a blown loss at home due to being out-coached and out-schemed and out-performed down the stretch and down 2,000 + fans per game since then - THEN WE HAVE VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS ON SUCCESS. Sorry.
And if we want to celebrate the 8 wins to start off last season, my oh what conclusions we could draw or at least what questions we could ask.
What was going right then that's since largely gone wrong? Loss of players who opted to leave or who we couldn't figure out how to coach? Or keep eligible? What did they see in Parker to start him 8 games and then never play him again? Mileek? Why'd Linssen (sp?) leave? Idk. Just asking. Why have we yet to have a stretch like that again? Have players regressed? We didn't have LeBron then. Are we really going to chalk it up to injuries? Or have players been forced to play ML's style of basketball and since regressed? Were those 8 games indicative of guys playing more of a fast-paced game? Maybe they don't do as well when they're forced to run set plays all the time. Maybe it's hard for Golder to have been forced to leave behind his natural tenacity. If you recall, Matt didn't put up with it. Maybe it's hard for a guy like Daniel to be benched and not be coached up. Maybe it's hard for Mileek to find his identity when he's afraid of screwing up and knowing one mistake and he's OUT. That's what I see. I see tentative players afraid of making a mistake. Hence why Kiser gets playing time. He doesn't "make mistakes" ... he's the "glue guy" ... ok, great. But, who is he sticking together? A bunch of guys who are afraid to make mistakes? Bakari isn't afraid. Gotta give him credit. Down the stretch vs Southern Illinois you got to see what Lavender will do IF given the chance - he can be a game changer. But instead we have player regression because they don't fit his scheme. Sorry for the rant. Disagree. It's all good. But that's how I feel.
Despite the loss to UNI, nothing has changed. We needed to steal 1 game on the road and beat Evansville at home to avoid Thursday. We still have the opportunity to do that.
As the great philosopher, Lebowski once said, "Nothing is F*&*ed here, Dude." Although, things are getting much closer. :(
Does it really matter if they have to play on Thursday? Even if they don't, a Friday loss is bound to happen either way.
Quote from: Valpo89 on February 25, 2019, 08:35:30 AM
Does it really matter if they have to play on Thursday? Even if they don't, a Friday loss is bound to happen either way.
I dunno about that...
1. We matchup well with MoSt if we somehow get them.
2. UNI beats us by 11 at their place and we beat them by 11 at our place. Neutral floor about even.
3. Swept IllSt and SIU if we somehow get one of them.
All is not lost until it is actually lost. You don't have to be happy but you don't have to give up YET either.
I like your optimism, but I gave up a while ago. My attention is now on VHS making a run in the state tournament, which can happen if they get past a mediocre Merrillville in the sectional on Wednesday night. Other than that, I'm looking forward to getting out of town at the end of March. :)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 10:05:13 PMThis game is for everything. Lose and we're for sure a Thursday team. Win and we still have hope of a top 6 finish. Go Valpo! Play like your season depends on it!
We really need to win both of our last two games to avoid Thursday. Lose to Bradley and mathematically the best we finish is 7th. Win both and we are guaranteed 6th place because of tie breakers. Beat Bradley lose to Evansville, the stars have to exactly align with fingers crossed to have a shot at 6th. So basically any loss we say hello to Thursday.
Everyone does realize we're going to beat Bradley by 25 then lose at home to EVille, right?
Jerry Palm tweet regarding Valpo and Arch Madness chances based on Paul Oren tweet about what ML said today about team health.
https://twitter.com/jppalmCBS/status/1100076277401305089?s=19
Love Valpo MBB and hope I'm proven wrong but just not ready to believe again based on up/down performances. Thoughts?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
It is sometimes very hard to understand the criticism on this board regarding Matt L, his staff and players. Sure Matt had made some mistakes, but... Have any of you dissenters paid any attention to the overall MVC results this year? And for the most part, teams that have struggled have "veteran" coaches and some veteran players, particularly in the back court. And we start freshman guards, sprinkled with guys playing only because of injuries to players who would normally start in front of them, a head coach only in his 3rd year. I believe cooler heads should prevail. If you were a Loyola fan I can't imagine what you would be saying about Moser, probably the most overrated coach in the MVC . Or how about the coaching situations at Bradley, Southern Illinois, and Illinois State, etc. It is time for cooler heads to prevail regarding Matt and this team. For the most part, this whole season has gone south because of injuries, inexperienced players and perhaps inexperienced coaches. Matt really started from scratch, inheriting a veteran team but with a not so hot incoming class recruited by Bryce. Then we jump into the MVC. Then he had to re-build a coaching staff. Give the man a chance. Even some of the first year MVC coaches had head coaching experience prior to coming into the MVC. And for some of you who are members of the "Drew Crew" gang, I wonder how they would have done under the situations Matt has had to face. I too have been disappointed in the season, especially after the great start to the MVC season, but let's show some support to Matt and the team for these last 2 games and MVC tourney. It could be fun. Then next year lets have a good year, We're due...GO VALPO!
Agree 64. Basically, the MVC is just a bunch of mediocre/bad teams this year. Whoever emerges from Arch Madness most likely will be a one-and-done in the NCAA Tournament.
Well said Valpo64!
64 - who wouldn't want to support what you said? But, that's a sugar coated depiction of what's actually a much more grim reality. Talking about other coaches in the MVC doesn't mean anything in regards to concerns we've posted here about his lack of owning the losses and such. I'd go so far as to say your points about the other teams actually make matters worse because the league is WIDE OPEN. And yet we're not taking advantage. But sure, I'll jump on the bandwagon and ignore the flashing red lights that clearly portray a much different story.
Valpo64, Lottich Chance should be 4 years. If team doesn't make noice next year, you have what everyone already knows, a lame duck. We will just wait for more facts on something we already know....
And I will apologize if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Valpo89 on February 25, 2019, 09:21:19 AM
I like your optimism, but I gave up a while ago. My attention is now on VHS making a run in the state tournament, which can happen if they get past a mediocre Merrillville in the sectional on Wednesday night. Other than that, I'm looking forward to getting out of town at the end of March. :)
I feel sad for you, my friend.
For a non-valpo related post....Or at least an only semi-valpo related post.
I really hope Drake wins the conference title. I don't want Loyola to get too much momentum from their final 4 run. I want them to be really good going forward but don't want them to completely take over and lets face it that sorta thing is possible with the attention garnered from a final 4 run.
Loyola was not good at all in the MVC until last year. Drake hasn't been good since 2008 and were not good before that for a few decades.
2 private schools winning 2 years in a row coming from relative obscurity over the past 20 years would show teams can go from lackluster to really good in short order and should remind us that Valpo can turn the corner at any moment and that fans should not let short term anger effect long term success.
https://twitter.com/MVCsports/status/1100802743843774467
I understand you're position on Loyola. However the more success and power they gain the more success and power the MVC gains. If they were to get to Butler level (minus the BE) that will only help the league. Yes it will make me jealous but ultimately the league needs a household name.
We should hope Loyola does well.
The league as a whole is really struggling and the conference champ may end up a 15 seed
Geez
Horizon League champ will be higher
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/1100847559956930562?s=21
Sorry, if Valpo can't win Arch Madness, then we should be rooting for Loyola to win it. Why? Because they'll get a seed line bump or two because of returning from the Final Four last year. Which gives them a better chance to win a first round game and bring more tourney units to the conference.
Which will make it more likely for ESPN to pick up more Valley games nationally next year.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 27, 2019, 07:16:19 PM
Sorry, if Valpo can't win Arch Madness, then we should be rooting for Loyola to win it. Why? Because they'll get a seed line bump or two because of returning from the Final Four last year. Which gives them a better chance to win a first round game and bring more tourney units to the conference.
Which will make it more likely for ESPN to pick up more Valley games nationally next year.
I actually think Missouri State could have a chance to win the 1st round if they got the right matchup and the refs allowed for a more physical game.
MO ST either has lost tonight or is losing vs IL ST
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697
"A MVC moderator should cancel the posting privileges of VUGradXXXX"
???
Quote from: may know on March 03, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
"A MVC moderator should cancel the posting privileges of VUGradXXXX"
???
What's that all about?
He apparently doesn't like that I post news about other conferences in appropriate relevant threads for people to read if they wish, and also that I post about realignment in the expansion and realignment threads because I find it interesting. Just a small-minded insular MVC fan who refuses to dream big and challenge the one bid status quo. Did you not see my rebuttal? If not I'll post it here:
I should be banned because I enjoy posting about realignment and college sports news in general? Power trip much? I know plenty about the MVC and do tons of research on its teams but I don't have to prove my bona fides to you or anybody. Don't like it? Don't read it. I post to inform and share my thoughts and defend my school when needed. I would cut out the backseat moderating especially since I've done nothing wrong and hardly ever post anything remotely controversial or tearing down other teams unnecessarily. I'm very supportive and encouraging of the MVC and I want to see it get better but I also follow the college sports landscape in general so I share that news when I think it might be interesting to the discussion. Enjoy the fact that you have a good team and that your school picked a good coach while mine didn't. I wish your team and the MVC nothing but continued success although all it seems like you and most who interact with me want to do is bash and attack me just because I find realignment interesting.
Well we have a long history of pissing off the fans at the other schools in our conference. We just usually do it by winning.
He probably never wanted Valpo to be in the MVC anyway so he's just using my posts to vent that frustration. Whatever. I'm used to it.
Some of that group are a little over sensitive. But not like we've done much to prove our detractors wrong.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 01, 2019, 11:51:45 PM
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697
For some comparison, because we've (the rest of is us in the Valley) all read about how hard Valpo has it had this year.
Here is UNIs season
2 year starting PG transfers out
Main back up PG for 2 last 2 years graduated.
2 3 year starters in the front court graduate. They were the top 2 scorers, both top 3 in rebounds, one was second in assists, both top 4 in assists, first and 4th in minutes played.
So before the season starts we are out 3 starters from the year before and a top 7 player.
Then
Starting 2 guard (all freshman team last year) lost for the entire OOC with ankle surgery and shoulder issues. He has also missed more than a couple MVC games with health/injury issues. He was a shell of who he was as an all freshman team player the year before.
So basically down 4 starters from the year before
Then
Starting center lost for the season before the season starts due to a heart issue
So we have our back up center (McDonnell) playing almost all of the minutes at the 5 this year even though he's more a swing 4 and we are left playing without a 4 because the guy brought in to be his back up has been lost for 80% of the season with stress fracture issues. Meaning we've played the entire season without a true post player and the guy brought in to give depth was lost due to injuries.
We lost our primary gaurd back up to a torn acl half way through the season this year.
Our 6th man has been playing well lately but had back surgery over the off season and wasn't sure he'd ever be able to play again. Took him 70% of the season to feel comfortable on the court. Still some rumors he may have to hang it up after this season for long term health considerations.
Our starting 3, a 3 year starter, is now missing time thanks to taking a shot to the face and testing on that.
A JUCO PG that was recruited to be a key piece for scoring was deemed ineligible by the NCAA because he went to a very poor HS in Alabama that screwed up his transcripts when he went JUCO and no one at the JUCO caught it until UNI stepped in and was going through clearing house certification.
Started a true freshman at PG. Ended up playing a kid at the 2 that was a first year hardship transfer.
So if you're keeping track at home UNI has started it's "best 5" zero times this year. Taking the starting center out if it UNI has started it's "best 5 available" about half the time this season. UNI has had it's full roster available pretty much not at all this season. There was a period UNI has 7 healthy scholarship guys.
Just some food for thought to compare to the rest of the conference
The constant " WOE IS US. WE ARE THE ONLY ONE WITH INJURIES. NO ONE HAS IT AS BAD AS US" gas certainly been noticed by other fan bases. It's left a mark, to say the least. In 2 years your fan base has climbed near WSU and Creighton levels with 1/10000000000 the success.
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Lol you haven't been reading this board enough have you. People are constantly getting annoyed by the HC bringing up injuries as an excuse. Many on this board and in the fan-base think the problem goes deeper than just injuries and have been very willing to verbalize it.
My Lord, some of you UNI fans are a different breed.
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I'm not sure we'd reach 12 wins but maybe we win a few more of the close ones at home. Our problems go beyond just losing Ryan. People seem to be more disgruntled with our coaching than the injuries because even with all the injuries we still should have performed better in some of these games. We struggle to finish games and we go inexplicable scoring droughts. I do think we'd be a much better team if the team was healthy but I don't think many are saying we'd win the conference.
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Feels like you are trying to dig at VU fans and that's unappreciated. That being said, whoever thought that is smoking the high THC weed from out west...
There's no winning this league with a single shooter, despite the down year.
The constant "WOE IS US. WE ARE THE ONLY ONE WITH INJURIES. NO ONE HAS IT AS BAD AS US" gas certainly been noticed by other fan bases. It's left a mark, to say the least. In 2 years your fan base has climbed near WSU and Creighton levels with 1/10000000000 the success.
Now time for a reality check on the impression you've left on other fan bases. I searched your name on other Valley boards and here's what came up:
""Anyone recall the two UNI posters who go on 18 paragraph rants about the greatness of almighty Northern Iowa and how terrible the privates are?
They're rebounding from an 82-50 nailbiter to S Dakota St with trailing Dubuque 50-40 midway thru 2nd."
"There is only one UNI poster that is a real tool, something like uniftw. Epic rants. I remember one such one where he was going on and on about the pool at UNI and how it proved how superior they were. I also noticed he has been hanging on the Valpo board of all places, telling them how sucky the private schools are......either he doesn't realize they are private, or he just wants to fill their heads with how great UNI is."
"LOL...at the uniftw posts...that guy is something else...
Him and the wSU baller guy have always been the worst posters."
"Both are clueless."
"For some reason he appears to be picking on the Valpo board alone. It's like he feels he must pound to the newbies that UNI is the greatest program in the league, and beyond approach from all."
"He did the same thing last year after Valpo was brought into the league. Once UNI lost all the conference games in December and January this past season, he quit posting on MVCfans until after the NCAA tournament. He ranks right up there with the worst of WSU posters."
"My favorite is when uniftl thumps his chest thinking he won an argument because he posted 16 paragraphs no one read."
"Yep, looks like he has added more epic novels to their board, luckily, I could stop after the first sentence, when he claims UNI has always been Iowa's real State University. Sure Skippy...I am sure the other 18 paragraphs involve a lengthy analysis of the pools of the MVC. Probably some formula comparing the water temperatures of the pools, divided by the ph factor, added to the chlorine percentage, which shows UNI will be in the ACC within the next 5 years."
"uniftw is totally deranged and has traveled around Valley boards in the past to randomly take shots at UE. When UE isn't living in his head, he's posting 12 paragraph fantasies about Mountain West alignments with UNI in them."
"I went back and didn't fully realize the depth of the rants the UNI rage monkey was posting on there. I still didn't read all of it, it would take some vacation time. I did see at some point he was comparing pools...For some reason he appears to be picking on the Valpo board alone. It's like he feels he must pound to the newbies that UNI is the greatest program in the league, and beyond approach from all. He doesn't bring that garbage to the other league boards because we all know better. He takes plenty of shots at us, but it appears his main fixation is the public/private split. He bags on Loyola just as hard. The irony is he goes to a private schools board, and berates them with how superior UNI and the other publics are, with long drawn out posts about pools and track teams. Deranged and delusional. Everyone in the country knows Loyola and Sister Jean. Most people outside of the Valley still can't differentiate between Northern Iowa and Northern Illinois. Funny, it looks like he doesn't even post on the UNI board...probably got banned."
"Yes, uniftw is now #1 douche on MVCFans now that the WSU rabid fans have stopped posting."
Quote from: VU2014 on March 01, 2019, 11:51:45 PMI've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
When we started 5-1 I was one who posted that if Fazekas healed quickly a full strength team would hit 10-8, might get to 11-7 and had an outside chance for 12 wins. I said that both here and on the Valley board. Fazekas did return for a few 70% performances but I'm not certain Golder ever has returned. Some guy is out there wearing his number that struggles to defend, can't get lift in shooting, won't attack the basket and finds fewer rebounds. Something has happened since his ankle injury which I fail to understand. I personally suspect that Golder might be the bigger problem with the team funk and epic collapse. If you can explain it to us give it a shot.
I've seen a lot of HS teams fall completely apart after facing misfortunes. It is far less common in the college game. I'm still trying to figure all of this out so that it doesn't happen again.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 01, 2019, 11:51:45 PM
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697
Going back to our initial acceptance into the conference, as I recall, UNIFTW was one of our MVC supporters. He is very opinionated and reacts protectively to UNI criticism - sometimes without activating his filter mechanism. But he also is a keen observer of the scene.
What I got from his initial response to the Osipoff Twitter poll results is actually a bit of a mirror of our fan base (and just about every MVC fan base when you think about it). 55% of responants in NW Indiana (or electronically tied into NW Indiana) stated we faced the most adversity in the MVC. 32% said "no." And 13% didn't know. I believe his real point was how could all the respondants really know what all the other teams have gone through when most of us, myself included, only casually monitor MVCFANS, and seldom follow other teams' fan forums (1314 and 2014 being two rather obvious exceptions, and I'm sure there are a couple of others). IMO, that's what prompted the woe is me comment. In that respect, he's got a point. No need to get our knickers in a bunch about it and certainly no need to counter attack. 2014 put our frustration into perspective — part of our adversity is frustration over coaching, not just injuries or player issues.
Quote from: justducky on March 03, 2019, 06:27:38 PMI've seen a lot of HS teams fall completely apart after facing misfortunes. It is far less common in the college game. I'm still trying to figure all of this out so that it doesn't happen again.
If you thought we were going to win conference games by 20, then I see your point. But if not, consider that we lost 2 games in overtime, one by 2, one by 4 and one by 5. I think the problem was with overall depth. We started with 10 scholarship players (with Micah being a no show). With Ryan down Matt was practicing running the opponent's offense. With Ryan, Markus and Kiser down or not at full strength, well, you can see the issues.
Next year is the bellwether year. Depth should be there, one way or another. If we keep losing close games then you have to point to the coach.
Well said VU72. Hoping a starting five of Fazekas, Liberty, Smitts, Gordon, and Robison changes things next year. Should be much deeper also.
That lineup could be fun. A lot of fun.
Word of caution. The last two posts come close to pulling us back into the brown & gold colored glasses view that puts transfers on a bit of a pedestal and looks to them as guys who will immediately turn us around. Let's wait on this until at least the first exhibition game next Fall. And let's not believe any reports coming out of off season or preseason. Been there, done that, and we know how that has worked out these past two seasons.
Smits made good progress. Now he needs to use his right hand.
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Or nah.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 03, 2019, 08:58:33 PM
Word of caution. The last two posts come close to pulling us back into the brown & gold colored glasses view that puts transfers on a bit of a pedestal and looks to them as guys who will immediately turn us around. Let's wait on this until at least the first exhibition game next Fall. And let's not believe any reports coming out of off season or preseason. Been there, done that, and we know how that has worked out these past two seasons.
Valid points. Given his history of injury it might also be dangerous to count on Fazekas for a high level of season long production. So I now promise to spend this offseason understating every positive player rumor and observation. I will dampen expectation. I will pick them 0-18. I will react with shock to every positive development. Maybe I'll even change my name to setshot 2 and call for us to drop back to Div III? Also in the future I will only listen to chef when he is broadcasting and even then I will listen with a closed mind. Scouts honor :thumbsup:
There are a few UNI and ISUr fans that are just complete turds. Ever since we were admitted to the MVC, those few fans from those schools have been the most vocal about why we shouldn't be in the league. F em, I say :). Other than those most vocal fans from UNI and ISUr, it has been a pleasant experience reading posts from other fan bases.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 03, 2019, 07:41:31 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 01, 2019, 11:51:45 PM
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697
Going back to our initial acceptance into the conference, as I recall, UNIFTW was one of our MVC supporters. He is very opinionated and reacts protectively to UNI criticism - sometimes without activating his filter mechanism. But he also is a keen observer of the scene.
What I got from his initial response to the Osipoff Twitter poll results is actually a bit of a mirror of our fan base (and just about every MVC fan base when you think about it). 55% of responants in NW Indiana (or electronically tied into NW Indiana) stated we faced the most adversity in the MVC. 32% said "no." And 13% didn't know. I believe his real point was how could all the respondants really know what all the other teams have gone through when most of us, myself included, only casually monitor MVCFANS, and seldom follow other teams' fan forums (1314 and 2014 being two rather obvious exceptions, and I'm sure there are a couple of others). IMO, that's what prompted the woe is me comment. In that respect, he's got a point. No need to get our knickers in a bunch about it and certainly no need to counter attack. 2014 put our frustration into perspective — part of our adversity is frustration over coaching, not just injuries or player issues.
This here. I had/have little issue with Valpo I'm the conference in general. It isn't a secret I wanted Murray, for a few reason Ms, but as a stand alone 10th option that was present for the Valley, Valpo was/is the best option.
I've never posted here to flame. I came here initially to welcome. The issues the Valpo base with me stem from basically 1 thing and has expanded as everything I say as a slam from there: my take on your facilities. Which I see, because I have been reading, has shifted to almost entirely agreeing with me - even at one or two points specifically mentioning that maybe I wasn't wrong.
As to some reasons why my opinion is somehow invalid based on those other posts pulled
1. I read, and have posted, on many teams conference boards over the years. The only one I still read is this one. The exception I've never posted on is Evansville and maybe Bradley (?).
2. Maybe the issues people have is because they don't read posts that are longer than a couple sentences. I can tell, from experience across a number of forums and topics, that is generally the issue. I can be long winded, I generally don't hold punches. However, it's not out of a hate for a program it's out of an outside observation willing to have a deeper discussion than can be had in short, always friendly, posts. I haven't been on MVCFans, or any other MVC board other than passively reading this, since about October. My father has been going through some extreme health issues which has pulled me away from most boards as priorities have shifted.
3. Having said that the schools that I genuinely have repeatedly gone after are Drake and Evansville. Drake is an instate rivalry and I won't go into it here but they are fan base I genuinely don't like for their sense of entitlement vs what they've actually achieved over the last 50 years since their 1969 final four team (which required one win in a very different college athletic landscape). Even this year they share the title, but the reality is UNI had a shot at being the 1 seed going into the final week. That's a sign it was a bad conference this year. Not to take away from the job DD has done with them this year and what he took over though.
Evansville is the one program I genuinely don't like as a program. I've covered why at length many places. My thoughts, and many others, can be summed up in the statement of "why public's don't like adding small private schools making a significant jump in competition and what happens when it goes wrong". I have nothing against their fans, per se. My issue is they have been the epitome of private school issues when it comes to competing, yet railing against public schools joining.
On this topic, I, largely, have no idea what other schools have gone through with injuries. I know what UNI fans have sat through with injuries and health issues. I also haven't seen another fan base, coach, or beat writers spend as much time talking about their injuries. Maybe no one else has had them and it's genuinely only UNI and Valpo that have dealt with them. For some reason I doubt that though. Maybe it seems worse than it is out of your camp as your users tend to be much more active than others.
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I can't speak to how many injuries other teams have had but I think part of what is happening with us is this feeling of frustration that has been building over 3 years in relation to injuries and other issues and that the amount of injuries and the way they have happened is atypical of what we are used to. We generally have had the one or two injuries where someone is taken out of the year and we know it and there is no question in the air of when they are going to return. However that hasn't been the case over the last year.
We had injuries happen mid season with amorphous timelines and little chance to fully heal and get back into shape before they are back in the line up. Jay is the only one that had a more usual track where he was out at the beginning and came back when healed. Instead we have had Smits out randomly, Golder out then back although I'd argue we would have been better off just sitting him and then the "progressing nicely" with Fazekas before the broken hand where he is definitely out. Add that Bakari's coming off his third surgery and we had an issue where people are back on the court but it feels like they maybe shouldn't be or aren't ready to be but because of our 3 red shirts (2 transfers and Micah i'm assuming) there was no wiggle room and two of our injured players have already taken red shirts and I don't think the Coach really wanted to completely deny them another season.
Add to that the Burton, Jubril, and Alec issues as well as Tevonn's mono last year and it's been feeling like to be a Valpo fan is to constantly have the rug yanked out from under you over and over again. One person being out can effect a line up, but multiple people going out at random times like whack a mole really really messes you up. I think that also partially has to do with issues related to plays as I don't think we don't have an offensive scheme as much as I think the team lacks the confidence to implement it fully. Some of that is coaching, some of that is situational, and some of that is probably on the players themselves who seem to both like each other a lot but struggle to gel on the court.
I don't lay it all on the injuries but I also don't lay it all on the coaching. I think it's a perfect storm of crap. A new coach, trying to get his own identity, confronted with a challenging situation that is demanding he learn on the fly while also working to support his team which is beat to all get out right now. I don't think we need an injury free season. I just think we need a less chaotic one for the smoke to really clear and us to see what this coach and these players can do.
I agree. Everyone should just stop back and take a breath. Valpo has a collection of good players with a gap in their game and one complete but young player, Javon. I think it's reasonable that an athletic 6'6" player like Nick could fill some of that with his versatility. I simply hope Javon sees that potential for next year and stays.
I will say that Drake lost their star point guard and expected leader for the season. Yet they have been impressive this year without him. And I think Mo State played without DeSilva for a while and they started terribly in the MVC. Apart from that I have not followed other teams much.
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Certainly not a consensus. Is there really ever a consensus on any fans message board?
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PMI've been reading. I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
This is what you've been reading? Really? There may have been a poster or two...keeping in mind there are a number of posters on this board who will chant the same message over and over again no matter how incorrect they may be....who did so but there's certainly no consensus on Fazekus being out hurting the team to anywhere near the degree you mention even if you are exaggerating to make a point.
Evansville is the one program I genuinely don't like as a program. I've covered why at length many places. My thoughts, and many others, can be summed up in the statement of "why public's don't like adding small private schools making a significant jump in competition and what happens when it goes wrong". I have nothing against their fans, per se. My issue is they have been the epitome of private school issues when it comes to competing, yet railing against public schools joining.
Since UNI is my least favorite league program, I guess we are even.
I realize this is the Valpo board, but the ignorance in this comment deserves some clarification.
1. We actually downgraded in competition a tad when we moved from the MCC to the MVC. The MCC overall was a stronger conference. It was the implosion, and impending infusion of the public commuter schools which resulted in us taking the MVC invite. A small, but necessary step backwards. Those MCC championship teams would do very well in the MVC. Our problems have been internal leadership, not the league.
2. There is no railing here against a public, and I assume you mean Murray joining the league. For a fact, I am pretty sure our AD is the only one who has publicly spoken in favor of Murray joining. He has been quite adamant about them joining, even with it resulting in an odd 11. There is a large number of Murray alums living in the Evansville area, and we play them regularly in just about every sport. From a purely selfish angle, there is no school UE would rather have in the league than Murray. The only people around here who would be against them in the MVC is the CVB, since they will bring thousands here this weekend for the OVC tournament.
While it has yet to be proven on the court, it appears we have addressed our deficiencies, certainly with resources and commitment to the basketball program. Meanwhile, your attendance is bad, and your high dollar veteran coach nearly ended up on Thursday night for the second consecutive year. Sorry, but there just isn't anything at a teachers college in the boondocks of Iowa that should intimidate Valpo, UE or anyone else in the conference.
Again, my apologies to the Valpo fans, but the irony of an obnoxious poster going to the Valpo board to call you obnoxious was just too much to pass up.
Not sure Javon is a complete player. He shot barely, if you round up, 70% from the line and was pretty bad from the beyond the arc at 28% (again rounded up). I believe he will become a complete player, but he isn't there yet.
Quote from: bbtds on March 04, 2019, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Certainly not a consensus. Is there really ever a consensus on any fans message board?
A consensus of 1 possibly. I'm still stupefied as to why non-VU fans would ever post on this 50 person forum.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 04, 2019, 01:45:02 PMI'm still stupefied as to why non-VU fans would ever post on this 50 person forum.
Lots of reasons to reach out. Maybe 5 or 6 of us were occasional posters on the Oakland board with some interesting exchanges. Also can post with Iona, and believe the Valley board to be an excellent place to exchange ideas, observations and expectations. Even those I've clashed with would probably become my friends given enough opportunity for personal interaction.
I've also registered on boards that either deliberately or not never got around to giving me approval. Loyola did approve me but it took about 12 days before I could get in. I'm guessing they needed a background check, credit history and security clearance before they e-mailed our moderators to see if I was too hot to handle.
Mark Adams
@EnthusiAdams
Following Following @EnthusiAdams
MVC Average Budget $3.08M
1 . Loyola $6,194,444
2. Bradley $3,555,837
3. Evansville $3,231,007
4. Missouri St $3,070,453
5. UNI $3,024,333
6. Drake $2,696,222
7. Valpo $2,693,562
8. Illinois St $2,209,131
9. SIU $2,127,894
10. Indiana St $2,055,794
Budgets as per US Dept of Ed
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 04, 2019, 01:45:02 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 04, 2019, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: UNIFTW on March 03, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
I've been reading.
I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at least 12 conference wins.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Certainly not a consensus. Is there really ever a consensus on any fans message board?
A consensus of 1 possibly. I'm still stupefied as to why non-VU fans would ever post on this 50 person forum.
How about this... If every single MVC team was fully healthy for every game of the season, with everyone starting and finishing the season at 100%....
I think Valpo is most definitely between 10-8 and 12-6 in conference play. All other teams can make their own determination on how injuries derailed their season. For us, I think it cost us 3-5 wins even if everyone else was fully healthy too.
Just my opinion. --- That said... Injuries are part of the game. Gotta overcome through great coaching and good depth. Although I still think Lottich can be a good coach, not sure he was ready to adapt on the fly to missing pieces and I don't think our depth was good enough to overcome like it was on other teams with injuries. So yes, injuries happened and they happen to everyone and we were not able to overcome. So although I think it is valuable to play the "what if" game. The reality is we were not able to overcome and that is on us.
It'll be a few years and a few more deep runs, but Loyola is clearly gunning to be the next to leave.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 03, 2019, 01:32:59 PMQuote from: may know on March 03, 2019, 01:11:33 PM"A MVC moderator should cancel the posting privileges of VUGradXXXX" ???
What's that all about?
The guy that posted that just got called out by a member of his own fanbase for starting stupid threads.... LOL you can't make this stuff up... I thought about saying something in response to needle him about it but decided against it... What has already transpired is satisfying enough for me...
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5261&start=10
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 10, 2019, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 03, 2019, 01:32:59 PMQuote from: may know on March 03, 2019, 01:11:33 PM"A MVC moderator should cancel the posting privileges of VUGradXXXX" ???
What's that all about?
The guy that posted that just got called out by a member of his own fanbase for starting stupid threads.... LOL you can't make this stuff up... I thought about saying something in response to needle him about it but decided against it... What has already transpired is satisfying enough for me...
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5261&start=10
I have a love/hate relationship reading the MVCFan forum. There are some really smart and great fans on there but it also has it's fair share of idiots.
FWIW, Here are the seed lines for where Bradley finished up in Kenpom right around where Bradley is (167)
2018: Cal-State Fullerton (15), Lipscomb (15), Radford (16)
2017: Jacksonville St (15), North Carolina Central (16), North Dakota (15)
2016: Florida Gulf Coast (16)
2015: Manhattan (16)
2014: Milwaukee (15)
At this point, all of the teams in the following conferences have teams that are ranked lower that Bradley:
Metro Atlantic
Mid-Eastern
Northeast
Southland
Southwestern
Even if the favorites win all of the tournaments, Bradley will avoid being one of the play-in games. Beyond that, we'll have to wait for the tourney results hoping for upsets.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 11, 2019, 08:11:57 AM
At this point, all of the teams in the following conferences have teams that are ranked lower that Bradley:
Metro Atlantic
Mid-Eastern
Northeast
Southland
Southwestern
Even if the favorites win all of the tournaments, Bradley will avoid being one of the play-in games. Beyond that, we'll have to wait for the tourney results hoping for upsets.
I certainly don't think that Bradley will be in one of the first 4 games in Dayton, but between the 15 and 16 seeds there are going to be 10 teams that get picked there, so there will have to be a large number of upsets in several other leagues by teams ranked lower than Bradley to push them much past even a 14 seed, IMO. Will be interesting to see the seed lines and how closely they resemble the NET rankings or how much they deviate from those.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 07, 2019, 12:42:57 PM
It'll be a few years and a few more deep runs, but Loyola is clearly gunning to be the next to leave.
And go where? Perhaps the A10, but they have a problem with having too many teams. Definitely not the Big East (DePaul will never allow it plus they are a long way from the minimum stadium size expected in the Big East).
A more interesting question is "what are they spending it on?" Their spending is a huge outlier versus the rest of the conference, though it is pretty clear that they are not head and shoulders above the rest of the conference (like Gonzaga is in the WCC).
While a budget size twice the next biggest may not equate to year over year supremacy, my guess is if that remains the case over a decade or more you'd see some serious separation. If nothing else it puts their coaches in front of more recruits each and every year.
And really it's less about the $$$ as it is about the commitment. Loyola's administration has backed up their verbal commitment to athletics with tangible action.
QuoteA more interesting question is "what are they spending it on?" Their spending is a huge outlier versus the rest of the conference, though it is pretty clear that they are not head and shoulders above the rest of the conference (like Gonzaga is in the WCC).
A chunk of it is on Moser's new contract, but most of the rest just started this year. If they continue to spend like that above the rest of the league year after year, they absolutely will eventually dominate the Valley like that. The correlation on this point is pretty clear at the mid-major level.
Interesting article online at the Cleveland Plain Dealer about University of Akron's athletic budget and how much has to be subsidized by students and the institution. For what one might ask. Does spending $34 million help Akron's rankings, curb appeal or name recognition? They do have a nationally successful soccer team, though.
BTW, Chris "Spuds" Sabo was recently hired to help return a baseball team. Spuds played with Barry Larkin at Michigan for Bud Middaugh (that's for TX).
https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2019/03/how-university-of-akron-raised-and-spent-money-on-sports-in-2017-2018.html?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190312&utm_content=article10-readmore (https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2019/03/how-university-of-akron-raised-and-spent-money-on-sports-in-2017-2018.html?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190312&utm_content=article10-readmore)
Precisely why SLU should get smart and accept an MVC invite.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 12, 2019, 03:52:22 PM
Precisely why SLU should get smart and accept an MVC invite.
They're holding out for that Big east invite. If the be starts poaching other A10 programs and weakens that league the MVC might become more attractive for them. Another reason SLU values the A10 is because it's considered a more "national" conference that raises their profile and helps them attract students from the east coast. How much it truly does is up for debate.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 12, 2019, 03:52:22 PM
Precisely why SLU should get smart and accept an MVC invite.
It's interesting. I ate lunch at a BBQ place near the SLU campus on Friday and the talk among the SLU fans at the restaurant after they saw from the Valpo apparel I was wearing and some of the other MVC fans gear that we were attending Arch Madness was that with teams like Valpo, Indiana State, Evansville and without Wichita State that the MVC is down this year and may stay that way with the A10 holding serve and the Big East on an up swing. To each their own point of view. I don't think you will see SLU joining the MVC anytime soon.
I think the general consensus among college bball fans is that the MVC is down and this season confirms that in their mind. That's why it's important that this year is an anomaly and not the new norm. I would agree the A10 is holding steady (but down year in college basketball overall)...be interesting to see how they increase/decrease over the next few years. Big East also had a down year but remaining relevant. I think theyll at least keep their status over the next few years, if not increase it.
With the Big East having a down year and Butler finishing tied for last, I suppose it is time to get rid of coach LaValle at BU. Some of you are brutal on ML. Every word he speaks is analyzed, scrutinized, and with some reading between the lines, the guy doesn't stand a chance to be successful in your minds. Maybe we should focus our efforts on getting rid of B. Drew at Vandy. After all he left our program in less than desirable circumstances and now he finishes 0 for 2019, losing his last 19 games of this season. Some of us almost appear to be heading toward a So. Illinois fans vs, B. Hinson situation. Or maybe we should campaign for P.Moser's departure. After all, he gets to the Final Four and was supposed to win the MVC again and then gets beat in the Conference semi finals and most likely will not get in the Tourney. Enough is enough because as good of a coach as he is it has been 6 or 7 years and Loyola is still not a National power. If some of you want that immediate success and conference domination like we used to have in the HL and Summit, why don't you campaign to return to that type of competitive conference affiliation. One more thought, Mark Few should be fired at Gonzaga. After all he beats a team(St. Mary's) by 48 points a few weeks ago then gets beat in their Conference Championship game. Time to chill folks.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 13, 2019, 01:56:39 PM
With the Big East having a down year and Butler finishing tied for last, I suppose it is time to get rid of coach LaValle at BU. Some of you are brutal on ML. Every word he speaks is analyzed, scrutinized, and with some reading between the lines, the guy doesn't stand a chance to be successful in your minds. Maybe we should focus our efforts on getting rid of B. Drew at Vandy. After all he left our program in less than desirable circumstances and now he finishes 0 for 2019, losing his last 19 games of this season. Some of us almost appear to be heading toward a So. Illinois fans vs, B. Hinson situation. Or maybe we should campaign for P.Moser's departure. After all, he gets to the Final Four and was supposed to win the MVC again and then gets beat in the Conference semi finals and most likely will not get in the Tourney. Enough is enough because as good of a coach as he is it has been 6 or 7 years and Loyola is still not a National power. If some of you want that immediate success and conference domination like we used to have in the HL and Summit, why don't you campaign to return to that type of competitive conference affiliation. One more thought, Mark Few should be fired at Gonzaga. After all he beats a team(St. Mary's) by 48 points a few weeks ago then gets beat in their Conference Championship game. Time to chill folks.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
There's a difference between having a down year (Butler Loyola) Having a bad game (Gonzaga) and being terrible on offense without a guy who left three years ago. Bryce MIGHT get fired. And those of us who want to see the team compete ASAP in the MVC would NEVER campaign for a return to a lesser conference That's insane. Been there done that. Now it's time to put the infrastructure in place (and it will take more than the Drews this time) to compete at this level. Nobody's looking for 6 titles in a row That's insane at this level unless you're spending $6million a year like Wichita State was. We just want our team to contend not be a drag and a bottom feeder and to not piss away home games. That's not that much to ask.
Missouri State
Drake
Loyola
Indiana State
Evansville
All home games we could hav/should have won. I'd say by subjecting us to losses each time Matt was brutal on us first.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2019, 03:29:31 PMAnd those of us who want to see the team compete ASAP in the MVC would NEVER campaign for a return to a lesser conference That's insane.
And yet that is what we are asking Saint Louis to do join a lesser conference just because they fit the footprint of the league. Valpo is right in the middle of the HL footprint and if IUPUI wanted us back in the HL we should go back to the HL?
To me, the A14 is essentially the East Coast version of the MVC with a few programs (Fordham, Umass and Lasalle) that have seen their better days. (BTW, this is the conference to restart a challenge with.) Plus, as to other sports, is the A14 better than MVC? SLU from a cost, geographic base and other factors/sports would be better off in the MVC. But, that's from a certain perspective. SLU has affinity with the Catholics and privates in the A14, and the A14 programs (like the MVC) have had some great NCAA tourney teams and players. I like the A10, but if I was SLU the MVC provides a number of more natural/geographic rivalries, reduces my athletic budget costs, and probably (if I think we should be better) improved chances of going to the Dance. Frankly, bring Dayton and SLU to the MVC and suddenly the MVC becomes a really fun conference. SLU fans should appreciate a SLU/SIUC or SLU/MoST game better than going to SLU-Fordham. Dayton-Valpo is an better draw than Dayton-Lasalle in mid-Feb. SLU-EVille and SLU-Loyola revive the old MCC rivalries. Dayton and SLU improve the quality of the baseball in the MVC, too (for TX)
I asked on the SLU message board Billikens.com the reasoning why SLU would not accept an invite to the Valley. Mostly what I got was unintelligent answers and irritation at the same topic being discussed over and over. Here are two of the best answers once some of the more intelligent ones saw the thread.
Missouri Valley is a one bid league. It's the only solid reasoning I need. Don't come to our message board, ask us a question we've been asked a million times, and then get mad at us for being annoyed with you. You aren't new to this board, you know all of this.
Yea it is pretty simple as 05 said, the goal for SLU every year should be to get into the tournament. The tournament means more money and more exposure for the school and the program. The path to get to the tournament is better in the A10 that has gotten at least 3 teams in for years compared to the MVC that only gets one team in. SLU should only look at conference moves that improve their chances at getting in the tournament or at least keeps them the same, not decreasing them which a move to the MVC would do.
I'm sure there will be more.
EDIT: One more comment that isn't from a doofus.
MVC has had a lot of turnover and the turnover was good teams like Wichita State, and Creighton leaving the MVC so why did those teams move on because they moved to better conferences. The A10 > MVC can anyone in that part of Indiana understand that?
In the non conference I wish the Billikens would schedule more MVC teams like Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Bradley, Indiana State, Valpo, Loyola I am not interested in anyone else and more importantly I am not interested in playing in a conference with them.
The A10 gets multiple tournament bids why go to the MVC where there is not chance at an at large bid. SLU has gotten at large bids in the A10 so I do not understand the why they don't understand.
The best fit for SLU is the big east, that is a conference with the same type of schools. Next for SLU would be the AAC where I think SLU will end up one day.
I will look for your post at the end of next season.
He's not entirely wrong, though there is a chance the A-10 could end up being a one-bid league, as well. But 3 bids in a 14 team league is significantly better than being in a one-bid, 10, 11 or 12 team league. Let's even say that SLU was one of the ten. Well, that basically takes your odds of being a tourney team from 10% to 21.5% in any given year. That's huge.
Good article on Loyola with some food for thought for all of us. Maybe Lottich is on to something.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/3/11/18250780/missouri-valley-conference-tournament-loyola-chicago-mid-major-blueprint-porter-moser
Say what you will about Wardle but he's doing it the right way.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/3/13/18262038/brian-wardle-heather-moles-bradley-braves-scholar-athlete-mvc-arch-madness-ncaa-tournament
Quote from: bbtds on March 12, 2019, 11:27:10 PM
I ate lunch at a BBQ place near the SLU campus on Friday
Mmmm, Pappy's
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on March 15, 2019, 07:14:53 AM
Quote from: bbtds on March 12, 2019, 11:27:10 PM
I ate lunch at a BBQ place near the SLU campus on Friday
Mmmm, Pappy's
Yes, it was Pappy's. An excellent place for St Louis style bbq on Olive just east of the SLU campus.
Positively shameful and embarrassing stuff from Bradley... Wardle really might be the thin skinned douche so many on here believe him to be.
https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20190315/cleve-in-eve-bu-disgraces-itself-telling-longtime-pjs-beat-writer-you-dont-promote-bradley-brand
I propose that "Free Dave Reynolds" and "First Amendment" chants rain down from the fans at the ARC the next time Bradley comes to the ARC.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 15, 2019, 11:06:51 PM
Positively shameful and embarrassing stuff from Bradley... Wardle really might be the thin skinned douche so many on here believe him to be.
https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20190315/cleve-in-eve-bu-disgraces-itself-telling-longtime-pjs-beat-writer-you-dont-promote-bradley-brand
I guess that this type of stuff happens at other (and probably larger) schools, with coverage by individuals in the media not allowed to cover a team if they are perceived as negative. Still, I agree that Wardle and the Bradley athletic department are complete thin-skinned jerks for restricting access of any reporter from an established media source.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2019, 11:45:37 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on March 15, 2019, 11:06:51 PMPositively shameful and embarrassing stuff from Bradley... Wardle really might be the thin skinned douche so many on here believe him to be. https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20190315/cleve-in-eve-bu-disgraces-itself-telling-longtime-pjs-beat-writer-you-dont-promote-bradley-brand
I guess that this type of stuff happens at other (and probably larger) schools, with coverage by individuals in the media not allowed to cover a team if they are perceived as negative. Still, I agree that Wardle and the Bradley athletic department are complete thin-skinned jerks for restricting access of any reporter from an established media source.
Especially a reporter of Reynolds caliber Total abuse of power. Though (allegedly) Wardle knows a thing or two about abuse.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/horizon/2013/04/30/wisconsin-green-bay-brian-wardle-abuse-allegations-ryan-bross/2123569/
Wardle gonna Wardle.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2019, 11:45:37 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 15, 2019, 11:06:51 PM
Positively shameful and embarrassing stuff from Bradley... Wardle really might be the thin skinned douche so many on here believe him to be.
https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20190315/cleve-in-eve-bu-disgraces-itself-telling-longtime-pjs-beat-writer-you-dont-promote-bradley-brand
I guess that this type of stuff happens at other (and probably larger) schools, with coverage by individuals in the media not allowed to cover a team if they are perceived as negative. Still, I agree that Wardle and the Bradley athletic department are complete thin-skinned jerks for restricting access of any reporter from an established media source.
It's a product and reflction of our current times. :(
As a former sports writer, I'm outraged but not surprised.
I've said it before here, Wardle is an ass. That is now confirmed.
If I was still writing, and wrote the truth about this year's Valpo team, I'd probably be banned too. :)
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 16, 2019, 09:44:42 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2019, 11:45:37 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 15, 2019, 11:06:51 PM
Positively shameful and embarrassing stuff from Bradley... Wardle really might be the thin skinned douche so many on here believe him to be.
https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20190315/cleve-in-eve-bu-disgraces-itself-telling-longtime-pjs-beat-writer-you-dont-promote-bradley-brand (https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20190315/cleve-in-eve-bu-disgraces-itself-telling-longtime-pjs-beat-writer-you-dont-promote-bradley-brand)
I guess that this type of stuff happens at other (and probably larger) schools, with coverage by individuals in the media not allowed to cover a team if they are perceived as negative. Still, I agree that Wardle and the Bradley athletic department are complete thin-skinned jerks for restricting access of any reporter from an established media source.
It's a product and reflection of our current times. :(
I don't have a problem with Bradley objecting about a journalist if they could present persuasive evidence of a clear pattern with news stories that are false, inaccurate, misleading, or uniformly negative. Journalists should be held accountable. However, even then, the timing is not particularly smart. The closing of the editorial sums up the situation for me:
"What a disgrace. There is Bradley, in what should be a glorious time, coming off as oh-so-fragile and petty. Hype is the media relations job at BU, not the media's.
Safe spaces are the rage on campus around the country. It seems Bradley is trying to create one for itself in the media, too."
Wardle has been and will always be a d-bag
I would like to announce I'm banning Paul Oren from covering my fantasy football league next season.
I'm a crime junkie, and there's something about Wardle's insatiable need for total control, insecurity, paranoia, and narcissism that reminds me of...ah, I won't say it.
Let's not forget who really started this. Who is really to blame for the divide amongst us on the board?
Brian F&$@ing Wardle.
Let's keep the anger where it belongs.
The team throwing up back to back stinkers after an unsatisfying close to Peters tenure hasn't helped either.
Looks like Utah State just won the MW Tournament for the first time in program history. Bradley first time since '88? Time and place for everything I suppose...
Wardle is getting it with both barrels from all over. It's brutal. I feel bad for Bradley's players having to deal with this.
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1 ... 6721700864
https://twitter.com/boblutz/status/1107000106858020866
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/sta ... 6295275520
https://twitter.com/StlVUFan/status/1106936059915575296
https://twitter.com/MJJCollins/status/1 ... 4721038341
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status ... 9175086083
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1106803443585482752
I'm rooting for Bradley but Wardle just made himself very hard to root for.
And Shannon Ryan from Tribune with the line of March so far: "when you're trying to be Cinderella, don't behave like an evil step-Sister."
http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?pubid=3e7227b1-e3b7-4fac-aa07-5f943e58b4c5 (http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?pubid=3e7227b1-e3b7-4fac-aa07-5f943e58b4c5)
Going into Selection Sunday bracket projections abound. I looked at the one in USAToday. Bradley was a #15 facing #2 Michigan. But what got me was that both the OVC and WCC were cited as two bid leagues. Both are conferences with two good top teams and then a big drop off to a woeful supporting cast of lesser teams. It's all about wins baby. A deep mid-major conference that beats up on itself like the MVC may have some great teams but will not get that elusive at-large bid.
I also noticed that, unlike previous years, the A-10 is projected to have only 2 bids not the customary 3.
WCC only has 2 because SMC won the auto bid. OVC won't get 2. Belmont's resume has serious holes. Don't worry.
This might be the best response to Wardle's tyrannical power play I've ever seen:
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1107299575063298048
Brian Wardle: The anti-Sister Jean.
Mullins top target for SIU
https://twitter.com/kfvsnews/status/1107116744706064384
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 17, 2019, 10:06:03 AMWCC only has 2 because SMC won the auto bid. OVC won't get 2. Belmont's resume has serious holes. Don't worry.
Great take here... Wouldn't have seen an OVC at large if we had only been smart and added Murray State when they were literally begging to join...
Between their recruiting:
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5278
And the transfer market:
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1112439809023320069
Missouri State is setting up to be a real problem next year. Them Bradley Evansville Loyola and UNI will be pretty good next year I think.
https://twitter.com/Andrew__Slater/status/1117990679735672832
If Moser takes the Johnnie gig, yes it hurts the MVC brand but to be expected. With Mullins taking SIU Loyola is hurt immensely. I saw Mullins being the heir apparent and had he known I wonder if he takes SIU. I know that's where he went but he's a Chicago guy and his dad runs a very successful AAU program locally.
Emmanuel Dildy come on down?
So it looks like Moser took that offer back to Loyola and got yet another new deal. Good on him and good on the school for being willing to pony up.
That being said, how the hell do we, with our unwillingness to truly commit to athletics, expect to compete in a conference that now has two coaches at or near a million dollars a year?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 16, 2019, 05:00:42 PM
So it looks like Moser took that offer back to Loyola and got yet another new deal. Good on him and good on the school for being willing to pony up.
That being said, how the hell do we, with our unwillingness to truly commit to athletics, expect to compete in a conference that now has two coaches at or near a million dollars a year?
Citation on new post St. John's offer deal?
Wasn't confirmed but they did a segment on it in ESPN 1000 as I was driving. Mentioned Moser and his agent came back to Chicago and met with Loyola after meeting with St Johns. Soon afterward he announced he was staying.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 16, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Wasn't confirmed but they did a segment on it in ESPN 1000 as I was driving. Mentioned Moser and his agent came back to Chicago and met with Loyola after meeting with St Johns. Soon afterward he announced he was staying.
I like the guy, glad he's in the MVC for another year.
Moser turns down St. John's
https://www.newsday.com/amp/sports/college/st-johns/porter-moser-st-johns-coaching-search-1.29883354
NY Post reported that Moser went back to Loyola and told them he was staying. There is no reworked deal although there is an agreement to look at it in the future. Again, all according to the NYPost.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 16, 2019, 05:00:42 PM
So it looks like Moser took that offer back to Loyola and got yet another new deal. Good on him and good on the school for being willing to pony up.
That being said, how the hell do we, with our unwillingness to truly commit to athletics, expect to compete in a conference that now has two coaches at or near a million dollars a year?
Another reminder that other programs aren't sitting idly by, waiting for us to catch up. It starts to feel a little overwhelming when you think about where the program is right now and the challenges that lie ahead. That said, the situation seems more manageable if you break it down into bite-sized chunks, beginning with assembling a group of players that can win consistently beginning next year. I think it's possible that we're in the process of doing that. I'm especially encouraged that we have assembled a legitimate freshman recruiting class instead of going for the quick fix.
So tomorrow marks the start of NLI, seems a good chance at least one guy signs on the dotted line this week?
Yeah I don't know. We'll see on the freshmen. I will always root for my Crusaders. My fandom is secure.
My optimism you have to earn.
https://twitter.com/TDavisDMR/status/1172167910825037824?s=20
You should read the way Drake fans are trying to explain this away as though it's totally nothing on MVC Fans. The mental gymnastics they're using is absolutely insane.
Son of a b...a kid from my HS just signed a NLI to play basketball at Loyola. I am so disappointed in Baylor Hebb... :)
3-0 SMU at Evansville tonight on ESPN+. Starts shortly at 6:00 CST. Should be a game worth watching!
Quote from: justducky on November 18, 2019, 05:56:43 PM
3-0 SMU at Evansville tonight on ESPN+. Starts shortly at 6:00 CST. Should be a game worth watching!
UE loses by 2 ... great game. The real question is how does UE get a home game against SMU?
Nice, spacious venue + a few $$$$ (graciously obtained from UK). ????
:deadhorse: we have neither.
Third straight loss for Evansville. First SMU, then East Carolina, now a 78-70 defeat from George Washington. :o. :'(
SMU beat them three times. That's embarrassing. Two of those losses are inexcusable injuries or not.