Is it time for this thread?
Is this game going to have tv or radio coverage as it is only an exhibition?
It is not a "secret scrimmage" and I suspect they will sell tickets to the game, so there should at least be radio and GameTracker stats, no? We spent >$600K on new video capability last year and this should be a tuneup run for the regular season opening on the 6th, right?
Valpo by 32 points.
Anybody from the region here might remember Tye Wilburn. I believe he was on the Lake Central team that played for the state title with the kid who went to Butler. He is on his 4th or 5th school and is now at U of Indy to wrap up his career.
Quote from: vu72 on October 29, 2018, 10:44:45 AM
Is this game going to have tv or radio coverage as it is only an exhibition?
This doesn't affect me since I'll be there. I would, however, post an answer in a heartbeat if I did know because I recognize how important it is to so many fellow posters. This seems to happen every year and finally someone chimes in, while there are people from the athletic dept., Todd, Paul and others who regularly follow the message board who almost certainly know the answer all along and never bother to post it.
Quote from: wh on October 29, 2018, 12:12:08 PMQuote from: vu72 on October 29, 2018, 10:44:45 AMIs this game going to have tv or radio coverage as it is only an exhibition?
This doesn't affect me since I'll be there. I would, however, post a answer in a heartbeat if I did know because I recognize how important it is to so many fellow posters. This seems to happen every year and finally someone chimes in, while there are people from the athletic dept., Todd, Paul and others who regularly follow the message board who almost certainly know the answer all along and never bother to post it.
It appears that the exhibition game will only have audio (radio) and it is a pay to get in game. For all the rest of the home games you will be able to live stream them on-line.
Of those, 2 will also be available on network TV.
Of those home games live streamed 7 will be on ESPN3 (free) and 7 will be on ESPN+ (subscribe/pay). The last game against Evansville hasn't been decided yet.
The away games are going to be: 6 on ESPN3, 3 on ESPN+ and the rest on various cable networks.
Only 5 returning players for the Greyhounds... Gone are their top 3 scorers...19-9 last year...we haven't played them in 40 years, our last year in the ICC, but we do have a 2-game winning streak against them.
3 MARCUS LATHAM GUARD 6'3" 175 LBS JUNIOR ALTON, IL ALTON PARKLAND CC
5 TYE WILBURN GUARD 6'0" 183 LBS REDSHIRT SENIOR GARY, IN LAKE CENTRAL WRIGHT STATE
10 JESSE KEMPSON FORWARD 6'7" 240 LBS SENIOR INDIANAPOLIS, IN HERITAGE CHRISTIAN 12.2 ppts 5.5 rbnds 19 blocks to lead team
11 JIMMY KING GUARD 6'4" 175 LBS REDSHIRT JUNIOR INDIANAPOLIS, IN RONCALLI
14 CJ HARDAWAY JR. GUARD 6'2" 175 LBS SENIOR INDIANAPOLIS, IN WARREN CENTRAL SAINT JOSEPH'S COLLEGE 8.7 ppts 59% FTs
20 JAYLIN CHINN GUARD 5'11" 170 LBS FRESHMAN EVANSVILLE, IN BOSSE
21 MILES WAYER GUARD 6'1" 170 LBS JUNIOR MCCORDSVILLE, IN MT. VERNON (FORTVILLE) HIGH SCHOOL 0.3 ppts 46 season minutes
22 JORDACHE MAVUNGA GUARD/FORWARD 6'4" 200 LBS JUNIOR BROWNSBURG, IN BROWNSBURG PARKLAND CC
24 RADWAN BAKKALI CENTER 6'11" 250 LBS SENIOR LONDON, ENGLAND BARKING ABBEY JACKSONVILLE
30 GUNNER WILDER GUARD 6'3" 180 LBS FRESHMAN CAMERON, WI CAMERON
31 TREVOR LAKES FORWARD 6'7" 230 LBS SOPHOMORE LEBANON, IN LEBANON HIGH SCHOOL 5.6 ppts 45% 3pts
32 JACOB POLAKOVICH FORWARD 6'9" 245 LBS FRESHMAN GRAND RAPIDS, MI GRAND RAPIDS CATHOLIC CENTRAL
33 KEEGAN NORTHERN FORWARD 6'8" 210 LBS REDSHIRT SOPHOMORE MARTINSVILLE, IN MARTINSVILLE HIGH SCHOOL
34 DEMARRE SIMS GUARD 5'11" 163 LBS JUNIOR JEFFERSONVILLE, IN JEFFERSONVILLE HIGH SCHOOL - played in 4 games, did not score
Having been UIndy's head coach for 10 seasons, Stan Gouard (pronounced juh-RARD) has lifted the Greyhound men's basketball program back to national prominence. That success has included six consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances from 2010-2016, multiple All-America honors, a No. 1 ranking from his Division II peers (2014-15 season) and 2013-14 GLVC Coach of the Year honors.
Gouard has now spent over 20 years in college basketball. The stint includes four years as a student-athlete at the University of Southern Indiana and John A. Logan College (1992-1996); seven as an assistant coach at Southern Indiana (2001-02), UIndy (2002-05) and Indiana State (2005-08); and nine as a head coach of the Greyhounds (2008-present).
Gouard led the Hounds to 19-9 in 2017-18, finishing tied for third in the GLVC with a 12-6 record. After defeating Maryville in the first round of the conference tournament, the Greyhounds dropped a semifinal contest to Bellarmine. Despite 19 in-region victories, including ones over NCAA tournament teams Bellarmine and Drury, UIndy missed the national tournament.
Quote from: talksalot on October 29, 2018, 01:07:42 PM
Only 5 returning players for the Greyhounds... Gone are their top 3 scorers...19-9 last year...we haven't played them in 40 years, our last year in the ICC, but we do have a 2-game winning streak against them.
Assume you're talking regular season play ... the teams met a few seasons ago in an exhibition game.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 29, 2018, 04:04:38 PM
Quote from: talksalot on October 29, 2018, 01:07:42 PM
Only 5 returning players for the Greyhounds... Gone are their top 3 scorers...19-9 last year...we haven't played them in 40 years, our last year in the ICC, but we do have a 2-game winning streak against them.
Assume you're talking regular season play ... the teams met a few seasons ago in an exhibition game.
... and, didn't they win that game, maybe even dominate? I'm also recalling (possibly incorrectly) that it was an exhibition game for us, but a regular season game for them.
and for the record, our game and the one @ Ball State the very next night are both listed as exhibitions on the UIndy schedule.
Quote from: wh on October 29, 2018, 04:28:23 PMand, didn't they win that game, maybe even dominate? I'm also recalling (possibly incorrectly) that it was an exhibition game for us, but a regular season game for them.
We played them in 2015-won by 8
We played them in 2009-lost by 5
Both were exhibitions
They lost 3 starters from last year, we should win by 15+
Paul Oren Tweets:
Valparaiso's projected starters for Thursday's exhibition: Bakari Evelyn, Deion Lavender, Javon Freeman, Ryan Fazekas, Mileek McMillan. #MVCHoops
12:46 PM - 30 Oct 2018
Valparaiso's Jaume Sorolla rolled an ankle in practice earlier this month and is expected to miss at least the next two weeks. #MVCHoops
12:45 PM - 30 Oct 2018
Valparaiso's Micah Bradford has been sidelined with a back injury. He has not been practicing during the preseason and will not play in Thursday's scrimmage. #MVCHoops
12:44 PM - 30 Oct 2018
Quote from: vu72 on October 30, 2018, 02:52:13 PMPaul Oren Tweets: Valparaiso's projected starters for Thursday's exhibition: Bakari Evelyn, Deion Lavender, Javon Freeman, Ryan Fazekas, Mileek McMillan. #MVCHoops 12:46 PM - 30 Oct 2018 Paul Oren Verified account @NWIOren Following Following @NWIOren More Valparaiso's Jaume Sorolla rolled an ankle in practice earlier this month and is expected to miss at least the next two weeks. #MVCHoops 12:45 PM - 30 Oct 2018 Valparaiso's Micah Bradford has been sidelined with a back injury. He has not been practicing during the preseason and will not play in Thursday's scrimmage. #MVCHoops 12:44 PM - 30 Oct 2018
I know its an exhibition and the start of a very long season, but some takeaways from that somewhat surprising starting line up...
Golder not starting - I don't agree with it, but I suppose coming off the bench as 6th man is the way the want to use him... Even if he winds up with starter minutes, he should be starting IMO.
Freeman in starting lineup game 1 - Must have shown enough in practice to warrant this, which is a very good sign. I didn't expect him to start off the bat.
Neither big in the starting lineup, McMillian playing center - Obviously Sorolla is injured, but would have assumed Smitts would get the start. Bad sign for growth of the bigs AND great sign for the development of McMillian.
Lavendar in starting lineup - Hopefully his veteran leadership can be a positive role on the team. I didn't expect much of him this year, but hopefully that proves wrong.
Fazekas - no surprise here but we all said he needs to be a big contributor for the team to do well, him not being in starting lineup would have been a huge red flag.
Quote from: vuny98 on October 30, 2018, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: vu72 on October 30, 2018, 02:52:13 PMPaul Oren Tweets: Valparaiso's projected starters for Thursday's exhibition: Bakari Evelyn, Deion Lavender, Javon Freeman, Ryan Fazekas, Mileek McMillan. #MVCHoops 12:46 PM - 30 Oct 2018 Paul Oren Verified account @NWIOren Following Following @NWIOren More Valparaiso's Jaume Sorolla rolled an ankle in practice earlier this month and is expected to miss at least the next two weeks. #MVCHoops 12:45 PM - 30 Oct 2018 Valparaiso's Micah Bradford has been sidelined with a back injury. He has not been practicing during the preseason and will not play in Thursday's scrimmage. #MVCHoops 12:44 PM - 30 Oct 2018
I know its an exhibition and the start of a very long season, but some takeaways from that somewhat surprising starting line up...
Golder not starting - I don't agree with it, but I suppose coming off the bench as 6th man is the way the want to use him... Even if he winds up with starter minutes, he should be starting IMO.
Freeman in starting lineup game 1 - Must have shown enough in practice to warrant this, which is a very good sign. I didn't expect him to start off the bat.
Neither big in the starting lineup, McMillian playing center - Obviously Sorolla is injured, but would have assumed Smitts would get the start. Bad sign for growth of the bigs AND great sign for the development of McMillian.
Lavendar in starting lineup - Hopefully his veteran leadership can be a positive role on the team. I didn't expect much of him this year, but hopefully that proves wrong.
Fazekas - no surprise here but we all said he needs to be a big contributor for the team to do well, him not being in starting lineup would have been a huge red flag.
Valid points, I agree with most. One thing that I did expect was Lavender getting starters type minutes. Not saying all graduate transfers are thoughtful in the decision making process, but why transfer if you aren't likely to get key contributor minutes?
I have one concern about Matt's coaching approach last year and going into this 2018 season. For some reason, a freshman is promoted to starter before the first whistle is blown. Hasen suffered a lot of disappointment as a result and never recovered. Now Javonn gets the same treatment. The basic rule of thumb is to start an experienced lineup and let underclassmen, no matter how good, wait their time and work their way into a role and the lineup. Why rush this? We know Javonn will be a key in the long-term this season. But just because he is our prize 2018 recruit does not mean he must be rewarded before the season even begins. He has never played a D-I basketball game. I just believe it sends the wrong message at this very early point.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 07:54:17 PM
I have one concern about Matt's coaching approach last year and going into this 2018 season. For some reason, a freshman is promoted to starter before the first whistle is blown. Hasen suffered a lot of disappointment as a result and never recovered. Now Javonn gets the same treatment. The basic rule of thumb is to start an experienced lineup and let underclassmen, no matter how good, wait their time and work their way into a role and the lineup. Why rush this? We know Javonn will be a key in the long-term this season. But just because he is our prize 2018 recruit does not mean he must be rewarded before the season even begins. He has never played a D-I basketball game. I just believe it sends the wrong message at this very early point.
We never got an answer of why Parker started those first handful of games. I was thinking that he wanted to get him some confidence early on (never materialized) and maybe they were hoping he thought he'd be less of a liability with the starters lineup as opposed to the bench. I don't know what to make of that of situation. He looked completely over his head.
If he can play solid defense and contribute, why not start him? You don't need to play your best 5 player at the beginning of the game, hence Golder being the spark off the bench but playing starter minutes. Also something to consider is that these exhibitions and non-d1s allow coaches to experiment with different lineups.
I would be more concerned with Sackey starting out of the gates because playing PG comes with a lot more responsibilities. PGs need to be groomed more than SG, imo. Hopefully Javon isn't overwhelmed by being a starter and if he is, then at least we tested it out against lesser competition.
To me it is about establishing a solid, long lasting culture. When underclassmen know they have to work their way into the lineup as a rite of passage, it says something about the culture. And doing so is done in games, not practice. It doesn't have to be years or months, maybe just weeks, but the concept needs to be instilled from day one. In my mind no freshman, no matter how good, gets to feel entitled.
The other aspect of this is, if a freshman is that good, holding back the reins a bit only makes him hungrier to excel.
That's my philosophy, but every coach has their own approach.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 08:35:56 PM
To me it is about establishing a solid, long lasting culture. When underclassmen know they have to work their way into the lineup as a rite of passage, it says something about the culture. And doing so is done in games, not practice. It doesn't have to be years or months, maybe just weeks, but the concept needs to be instilled from day one. In my mind no freshman, no matter how good, gets to feel entitled.
The other aspect of this is, if a freshman is that good, holding back the reins a bit only makes him hungrier to excel.
That's my philosophy, but every coach has their own approach.
So does a 10/10 finish last year still mean no freshman start the following year? I'd say every single player from last years team has to prove something, as if they are ALL freshmen in pre-season camp.
While I understand the philosophy, I also understand we had our worst conference finish since _______?
With only 9 scholarship players dressing, there will be plenty of minutes to go around. It's always fun to watch new players for the first time and compare returning players to how they looked a year ago.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 30, 2018, 08:48:26 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 08:35:56 PM
To me it is about establishing a solid, long lasting culture. When underclassmen know they have to work their way into the lineup as a rite of passage, it says something about the culture. And doing so is done in games, not practice. It doesn't have to be years or months, maybe just weeks, but the concept needs to be instilled from day one. In my mind no freshman, no matter how good, gets to feel entitled.
The other aspect of this is, if a freshman is that good, holding back the reins a bit only makes him hungrier to excel.
That's my philosophy, but every coach has their own approach.
So does a 10/10 finish last year still mean no freshman start the following year? I'd say every single player from last years team has to prove something, as if they are ALL freshmen in pre-season camp.
While I understand the philosophy, I also understand we had our worst conference finish since _______?
Basically, yes. The kids who have seniority, while maybe even of lesser talent deserve the respect of the initial starts until the rookies establish their creds coming off the bench in games. Don't get me wrong, the rite of passage I mentioned is not a year long ritual. It could be after game two or five. And it could be evident in game one in terms of minutes played despite not starting. But something bothers me about just handing a starting role to someone who has not played a DI game in his life. Again, what's the flippin rush this early in the season? It's an exhibition for goodness sake.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 09:59:12 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 30, 2018, 08:48:26 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 08:35:56 PM
To me it is about establishing a solid, long lasting culture. When underclassmen know they have to work their way into the lineup as a rite of passage, it says something about the culture. And doing so is done in games, not practice. It doesn't have to be years or months, maybe just weeks, but the concept needs to be instilled from day one. In my mind no freshman, no matter how good, gets to feel entitled.
The other aspect of this is, if a freshman is that good, holding back the reins a bit only makes him hungrier to excel.
That's my philosophy, but every coach has their own approach.
So does a 10/10 finish last year still mean no freshman start the following year? I'd say every single player from last years team has to prove something, as if they are ALL freshmen in pre-season camp.
While I understand the philosophy, I also understand we had our worst conference finish since _______?
Basically, yes. The kids who have seniority, while maybe even of lesser talent deserve the respect of the initial starts until the rookies establish their creds coming off the bench in games. Don't get me wrong, the rite of passage I mentioned is not a year long ritual. It could be after game two or five. And it could be evident in game one in terms of minutes played despite not starting. But something bothers me about just handing a starting role to someone who has not played a DI game in his life. Again, what's the flippin rush this early in the season? It's an exhibition for goodness sake.
You mentioned Parker Hazen as an example. Were you proposing John Kiser started since the other (3) options were freshmen too?
Javon is no Parker. I trust Coach is putting the best five out there regardless if they are a freshman, sophmore, junior, senior or grad transfer. Does anyone remember the Fab Five? Do you think Duke or Kentucky benches kids just because they are freshman? It sends the right message to top recruits that they will get playing time at Valpo right away if they prove themselves versus riding the bench at a P5 school and then having to transfer. AP and Bryce started all four years. I put Javon in same class as them.
Isn't Micah out with a back injury right now? He probably would be who started, correct? Unless you would start Kiser. It's pretty clear they want Golder as an off the bench guy.
Quote from: crusader05 on October 31, 2018, 08:53:54 AM
Isn't Micah out with a back injury right now? He probably would be who started, correct? Unless you would start Kiser. It's pretty clear they want Golder as an off the bench guy.
I get the feeling that Micah was not on track to start based on his tumultuous previous year. Albeit much much better than his freshmen year. But it's possible. Based on Todd Ickows comments about Deion Lavender, he was a pleasant surprise to the coaching staff at PG so I think he's been spotted at stating PG for weeks if not more.
I concur with starting Jevon if he is clearly the better player.
Or on the other hand..... it could be a false signal. It could keep Concordia off balance and helps us withstand their onslaught on November 6.
Micah is #3 point guard this year. Horizon League recruit...
Yeah I don't know if Micah would have deserved to start but more just pointing out that, like last year, with two people injured and Smits and Golder not being options Javon starting may be more due to logistics/numbers than a particular coaching choice/strategy.
Quote from: tiny707 on October 31, 2018, 08:43:08 AM
Javon is no Parker. I trust Coach is putting the best five out there regardless if they are a freshman, sophmore, junior, senior or grad transfer. Does anyone remember the Fab Five? Do you think Duke or Kentucky benches kids just because they are freshman? Have to start them cuz they were recruited as one-and-doners ;)
It sends the right message to top recruits that they will get playing time at Valpo right away if they prove themselves versus riding the bench at a P5 school and then having to transfer. My point precisely. Let's see Javonn prove himself in a game situation first. Ease him in. And no, John should not start, even in this exhibition, over a talent like Javonn appears to be, But there is no reason why, in this exhibition, that Marcus shouldn't start at the 3 (Assuming that Deion is at the 1, Bakari at the 2 and Ryan at the 4). Make Javonn the first off the bench in this instance, if that is necesary to fulfill the promises made during recruiting, and then settle into the rotation that will be the basic rotation for Concordia Chicago by the end of the game. And that may include Javonn as a starter.
AP and Bryce started all four years. I put Javon in same class as them. I'll certainly give in on AP, because I can't remember anyone on the roster at that time that had the physical size and tools for the 4 that he had, and Bryce, of course, was Indiana Mr. Basketball.
Just pointing out again that it is about coaching style and tone and that is a very subjective thing. As most, if not all, posters here agree on -- it's not who starts, it's who plays the most minutes and finishes the game that counts.
But no sense wasting any more time on this. there is more important information to be shared about tomorrow's exhibition.
Quote from: tiny707 on October 31, 2018, 08:43:08 AM
Javon is no Parker. I trust Coach is putting the best five out there regardless if they are a freshman, sophmore, junior, senior or grad transfer. Does anyone remember the Fab Five? Do you think Duke or Kentucky benches kids just because they are freshman? It sends the right message to top recruits that they will get playing time at Valpo right away if they prove themselves versus riding the bench at a P5 school and then having to transfer. AP and Bryce started all four years. I put Javon in same class as them.
I was just going to post the same thing. AP started every game he played in and that was under Bryce. Javon is a much better player than Hazen.
Article from Indy Star about VU Basketball
https://twitter.com/IndyStarSports/status/1057660970384875521
Guys, I'm just getting caught up. Now that the season is here, I'll try and check each day. As been correctly pointed out, radio only tomorrow. Espn3 and espn+ for pretty much every game going forward. Mileek has made huge strides, that's why he's starting. Javon is starting because he's an exceptional player. He does everything well. Honestly has no weaknesses. I think we're all expecting this to be a great season.
Quote from: chef on October 31, 2018, 02:10:44 PMMileek has made huge strides, that's why he's starting. Javon is starting because he's an exceptional player. He does everything well. Honestly has no weaknesses. I think we're all expecting this to be a great season.
Optimism is contagious and I am starting to get a bull market adrenalin rush. :thewave: Can I go back and change my November record prediction? Wait. I'm not sure I even took that poll. :-[
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 07:54:17 PM
I have one concern about Matt's coaching approach last year and going into this 2018 season. For some reason, a freshman is promoted to starter before the first whistle is blown. Hasen suffered a lot of disappointment as a result and never recovered. Now Javonn gets the same treatment. The basic rule of thumb is to start an experienced lineup and let underclassmen, no matter how good, wait their time and work their way into a role and the lineup. Why rush this? We know Javonn will be a key in the long-term this season. But just because he is our prize 2018 recruit does not mean he must be rewarded before the season even begins. He has never played a D-I basketball game. I just believe it sends the wrong message at this very early point.
I don't think any of us can make a decision about Javon until he plays in a game. I've been preaching caution with expecting too much from Javon but if Lottich feels he is ready to start then let's sit back and make some judgements after the game and also allow for Javon to make adjustments as he acclimates to Div I college ball. I think there was a terrible overvaluing of Hazen (and possibly some promises made to the player) that transferred over to the beginning of last year's season.
"I don't think any of us can make a decision about Javon until he plays in a game."
In other words, you don't know how someone's gonna play until they play. Hard to argue with that. That said, we're not "deciding" about Javon; we're "speculating" about Javon. Just like we speculate where we'll finish in the league, or predict our Nov. record, or pick over/unders, or post a guess on the final score for an upcoming game. IMO that's half the fun of being part of a passionate fan base.
While looking through the Greyhound roster... found a couple of things I thought were interesting...
One of their players suited up against VU 2 years ago while a walk-on at Wright State; He'll be wearing #5 tonight. Lake Central Grad... UI Indy is his 4th school in 5 years. Played at Wright state for 2 years, and played pretty well...
Here's the WSU take on him...
https://www.wright.edu/retirees-association/news/article/archdeacon-wright-states-tye-wilburn-not-your-typical-college-basketball-player
He only played in the Vu game AT the Nutter center on 2/24/17... (against current-roster guys Sorolla, Kizer, Bradford and Smits). Played 7 minutes; 1 rebound, 1 assist and 1 missed
shot. Note about that game? It was our last conference win in the Horizon League.
and also from their Roster notes... their returning star #10 Jesse Kempson... youngest of 12 brothers and sisters....Played in 24 games as a junior, starting 22 ... averaged 12.2 points and 5.5 rebounds per game ... recorded a team-best 19 blocks, inching his way into the program's top-five in the category ... had 22 points and a season-high 14 boards in the win at Missouri-St. Louis (2/8) ... scored a season-best 26 points against Salem 12/16) ... grabbed six or more rebounds in 12 contests.
and #22 Jordache Mavunga, (JC Transfer from Parkland CC) ... brother, Julian, competed at Miami Ohio collegiately before playing professionally in Japan ... sister, Stephanie, was drafted by the Indiana Fever in April 2018 in the first round of the WNBA draft ... sister-in-law, Jeanette, currently plays for the Fever after competing at Stanford.
See you all tonight in the ARC...Rah Rah !!
Little news on Micah.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1058013413174140928
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 30, 2018, 08:35:56 PM
To me it is about establishing a solid, long lasting culture. When underclassmen know they have to work their way into the lineup as a rite of passage, it says something about the culture. And doing so is done in games, not practice. It doesn't have to be years or months, maybe just weeks, but the concept needs to be instilled from day one. In my mind no freshman, no matter how good, gets to feel entitled.
This really feels like an "Old Man Yells at Cloud" take. We might as well go back to making freshmen ineligible.
Quote from: valpo4life on November 01, 2018, 01:48:19 PM
This really feels like an "Old Man Yells at Cloud" take. We might as well go back to making freshmen ineligible.
A bit of an extreme analogy don't you think? I can't count the number of times I've read on this board how today's kids are given everything, they are sheltered by parents and rewarded for even meaningless things. Helicopter parents do everything for their kids these days. AAU coaches reinforce entitlement wherever you turn. And on and on and on.
From all reports and interviews, Javon is mature and has great character to go along with great talent. My point is that even great kids need to understand that eventually you get to a point where things aren't just handed to you -- you earn it. For all I know, Javon came off the bench in the "secret scrimmage" against UIC and showed he belongs in the starting lineup against UIndy (but that information has not been shared because....... it's secret). I have no beef at all if that's the case.
My point is that sports are one of the few places left where lessons in life can be taught in small but meaningful ways. Done right, of course. And I feel that, as the institution we proclaim ourselves to be, we can make a difference. If that is an old man yelling at clouds, guilty!
The UIndy game is also on Live Stats! Whew!
GO VALPO!
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 01, 2018, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: valpo4life on November 01, 2018, 01:48:19 PM
This really feels like an "Old Man Yells at Cloud" take. We might as well go back to making freshmen ineligible.
A bit of an extreme analogy don't you think? I can't count the number of times I've read on this board how today's kids are given everything, they are sheltered by parents and rewarded for even meaningless things. Helicopter parents do everything for their kids these days. AAU coaches reinforce entitlement wherever you turn. And on and on and on.
From all reports and interviews, Javon is mature and has great character to go along with great talent. My point is that even great kids need to understand that eventually you get to a point where things aren't just handed to you -- you earn it. For all I know, Javon came off the bench in the "secret scrimmage" against UIC and showed he belongs in the starting lineup against UIndy (but that information has not been shared because....... it's secret). I have no beef at all if that's the case.
My point is that sports are one of the few places left where lessons in life can be taught in small but meaningful ways. Done right, of course. And I feel that, as the institution we proclaim ourselves to be, we can make a difference. If that is an old man yelling at clouds, guilty!
I would disagree slightly that proving yourself in games/scrimmages is the only way to "earn" playing time or a starting spot. These guys have been practicing full-time for a month and been in organized workouts since arriving on campus in the summer. That's plenty of time for players to "earn" their place in the lineup.
Cool trick shot from Markus
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1058032714681585664
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 01, 2018, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: valpo4life on November 01, 2018, 01:48:19 PM
This really feels like an "Old Man Yells at Cloud" take. We might as well go back to making freshmen ineligible.
My point is that sports are one of the few places left where lessons in life can be taught in small but meaningful ways. Done right, of course. And I feel that, as the institution we proclaim ourselves to be, we can make a difference. If that is an old man yelling at clouds, guilty!
So, we shouldn't start a talented freshman because kids around the country are entitled and he needs to learn a lesson about those kid's entitlement. Got it.
I'm just concerned they might overlook the Jags. It has to be distracting to hear all the national buzz around their Nov. 6 opener with Concordia.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 03:44:26 PM
Cool trick shot from Markus
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1058032714681585664
Some how I doubt ML would be too happy if he knocked the shot clock off the top of the basket! :o
Quote from: valpo4life on November 01, 2018, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 01, 2018, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: valpo4life on November 01, 2018, 01:48:19 PM
This really feels like an "Old Man Yells at Cloud" take. We might as well go back to making freshmen ineligible.
My point is that sports are one of the few places left where lessons in life can be taught in small but meaningful ways. Done right, of course. And I feel that, as the institution we proclaim ourselves to be, we can make a difference. If that is an old man yelling at clouds, guilty!
So, we shouldn't start a talented freshman because kids around the country are entitled and he needs to learn a lesson about those kid's entitlement. Got it.
You conveniently chose to eliminate the previous contextual paragraph inserted below, which applied to Javon's case, to make your comment more caustic
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 01, 2018, 02:42:30 PM
From all reports and interviews, Javon is mature and has great character to go along with great talent. My point is that even great kids need to understand that eventually you get to a point where things aren't just handed to you -- you earn it. For all I know, Javon came off the bench in the "secret scrimmage" against UIC and showed he belongs in the starting lineup against UIndy (but that information has not been shared because....... it's secret). I have no beef at all if that's the case.
And EddieCabot makes a good point about the months of open gym and scheduled practices that preceded competition against someone other than teammates. And none of us are privy to the behind the scenes stuff that never makes it out of the gym. However, I would still ease him into that starter role after he had an outside experience or two under his belt. Ya know, it only starts to count on November 6th.
That being said, let's drop this difference of opinion, call it just that, and get on with following the progress of our boys tonight.
Got my game face on and heading out soon. The start of Valpo basketball - one of the best times of the year! :thumbsup:
Quote from: VUBBFan on November 01, 2018, 12:02:18 PM
Little news on Micah.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1058013413174140928
Tough news about Micah. Anyone know how long he's expected to be out? Jay's ankle is suppose to keep him out 2 weeks.
Interesting. Just trying to curtail speculation about the injury?
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1058149913480060929
It sounds like were giving up the majority of their points to the UIndy post players. Smits sounds good offensively but needs to be better on defense.
Valpo 28, UIndy 23 with about 3min till half time. Some positives and some negatives. Javon sounds strong.
Valpo needs to start making these open looks or point blanks at the basket. Defense is solid. This game shouldn't be close but we're only up by 3 at half...
24-15 Indy on the glass... ::) >:( :'(
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 01, 2018, 07:48:53 PM
24-15 Indy on the glass... ::) >:( :'(
AWFUL. This team is going to miss Jay
Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but what happened to the VU player from Georgia with the flat top haircut? He was playing in the open gyms in July/August.
I think Oren tweeted that he would not be walking on after all but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Didn't J have an underage drinking arrest last year? Could they just utilize his injury down time to serve his 2 game suspension by not being on the bench? It is just a team rule, after all...
Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
Quote from: wh on November 01, 2018, 11:18:10 AM
"I don't think any of us can make a decision about Javon until he plays in a game."
In other words, you don't know how someone's gonna play until they play. Hard to argue with that. That said, we're not "deciding" about Javon; we're "speculating" about Javon. Just like we speculate where we'll finish in the league, or predict our Nov. record, or pick over/unders, or post a guess on the final score for an upcoming game. IMO that's half the fun of being part of a passionate fan base.
Judgement was made about Javon starting. My
opinion is that you can't do that without seeing Javon play in a game. I like to do prognosticating as much as any other poster.
Brutal start to the 2nd half... :'(
Quote from: jsher3141 on November 01, 2018, 07:59:48 PM
Didn't J have an underage drinking arrest last year? Could they just utilize his injury down time to serve his 2 game suspension by not being on the bench? It is just a team rule, after all...
Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
Yes, I totally forgot about that. Would a suspension served count for a exhibition? I'm guessing it wouldn't but tbh I have no clue.
Quote from: jsher3141 on November 01, 2018, 07:59:48 PMDidn't J have an underage drinking arrest last year? Could they just utilize his injury down time to serve his 2 game suspension by not being on the bench? It is just a team rule, after all...
It was in January so I assume he didn't serve his suspension last season. So you may be correct and would make sense.
This game is way too close for comfort
McMillian fouls out. We're going to need him to keep out of foul trouble this season.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1058174665217187841
This showing will dash hopes for an increase in home attendance for the non conference portion of the schedule.
Paul
I'm going to be real honest. I'm really not happy right now. This is embarrassing. I don't care if it's a exhibition. We can not lose to this team.
I don't want anyone trying to spin this. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Well......that sucked.
Fazekus killed us. Hope he has it out of his system.
Swell
WAKE UP CALL CRUSADERS. This is a DII team with hardly any returning vets from a not so great 2017 -18 team. There are no excuses for this.
So the problem with the home schedule is actually that there's not enough NAIA teams in it.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 08:56:48 PM
I'm going to be real honest. I'm really not happy right now. This is embarrassing. I don't care if it's a exhibition. We can not lose to this team.
I don't want anyone trying to spin this. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Not unexpected. I think it was you that pointed out UIndy would be fired up to play in a D-I arena against a big-name opponent. It was their Super Bowl. They were ready to play and Valpo had a bunch of guys playing for the first time in a Valpo uniform, plus they were missing two veterans in J and Micah.
As Paul pointed out on twitter, this is an exhibition game that doesn't count for anything. On to the regular season and some real competition!
Sweet Jeebus am I tired of watching Derrik get out played and out worked, not box out, and whine like a child on every foul call. He had a couple of nice plays offensively in the first half, but his defense is simply offensive.
Excuses. This team was not (emotionally) prepared for everything you identify Eddie.
Who is having the tougher night, Lottich or Gruden?
Looks just like the team I saw at the season ticket holder event.
-Lacking a leader
-Our big is weak and Mileek is playing out of postion to compensate for it. He's not a center.
-No energy or aggression. No loose balls and poor rebounding
-Everyone looks lost in the offense. Just like last year.
-Some poor game play calls by Matt.
Also, the scoreboard is hard to read with the gold background.
Deon is going to lose his starting spot to the freshman.
Just terrible, luckily winning isn't the number one priority on a night like this.
Nerves. Fazekas admitted to being nervous in an article the other day. No way he shoots that poorly, although the sets to start each half for him were not good looks.
This team looked pretty good when it pushed the tempo whether that was off a rebound or a turnover. Loved Sackey with the ball in his hands, although his defense needs some work. Liked what Freeman did in the first half too. Thought he had a few nice drives and kicks and showed his athleticism.
On the half court our sets were unimaginative and stagnant (just like most of last year). 1 or 2 guys moving while everyone else just stood there. I'm hoping that was intentional to not put stuff on tape for future opponents.
Smits has a decent first half, he seems to always score when the other team is small, but his defense and rebounding was just as bad as ever.
Did Bakari, Lavender and Golder even play?
Mileek looks physically better and a little quicker (still just a tad slower then he needs to be though) but I think next year is when he will start to really shine.
It's embarrassing to be outrebounded and to give up more free throws to a lesser team. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the next couple of practices.
See ya Tuesday.
Sorry for wasting the time of people who were there or were on the radio feed, but only being on the GameTracker I need to know what was the level of Valpo intensity. This was our first public opportunity to show the "real" 2018-19 Valpo MBB team. Sitting 300 miles away and not having any visual clues, it sure appeared that we were outclassed by a middle of the road DII program in a rebuilding mode.
Matt said we had to be ready to perform EVERY night in the MVC. Does this mean that if it is not MVC we don't need to be ready?
Quote from: Chairback on November 01, 2018, 09:37:27 PM
Looks just like the team I saw at the season ticket holder event.
-Lacking a leader
-Our big is weak and Mileek is playing out of postion to compensate for it. He's not a center.
-No energy or aggression. No loose balls and poor rebounding
-Everyone looks lost in the offense. Just like last year.
-Some poor game play calls by Matt.
Also, the scoreboard is hard to read with the gold background.
Deon is going to lose his starting spot to the freshman.
I'll give a pass on the play calls tonight because it's an exhibition. Coaches are suppose experiment in these games. ex: Fazekas getting that final shot at the end of the game. If this was a meaningful game I doubt he gets that opportunity after this shooting performance. It sounds like Fazekas was really nervous and had no confidence. If he would have hit that shot that all would have went away.
I have concerns about Mileek at the 5. Maybe if your playing small ball we can get away with it. Smits may never be capable on defense.
Coach Lottich should have coached this game to win it. After the crap this fan-base had to watch last season he can not be experimenting in a close game vs a D2. This is a black eye on the program and ticks everyone off. They #*$*($ need to beat non-d1s at home. He didn't do himself any favor tonight with fans. If we exceed expectations this season then this will all be forgotten but the benefit of the doubt has not been earned.
With this type of talent on a team, we should be scoring more than 57 against a division 2 opponent, or really anybody for that matter. The coaching was not good today. Everybody was playing out of position. I know Fazekas is playing the 4, but he's supposedly our best 3 point shooter and he really only got one quality look from three out of his 5 triples taken. John Kiser on the other hand had more good looks from three. The half court offense is atrocious. No productive movement whatsoever, not getting the actual shooters open on the perimeter. But at the same time not opening lanes for our guards to get to the basket. Mine as well not even run a play. The only way we can score is out in transition and nobody ever seems to try to do that. Sackey did it a few times in the second half and that was really the only glimmer of hope. And even then, any good team is not going to allow us to get out in transition every possession, so we need to have something resembling a half court offense. As elementary as it sounds, somebody needs to be in Derrik's ear every time he doesn't box out or doesn't use his right hand on the right side of the basket. He would be such a good big if he could use his right hand and box out, he certainly has the talent for it. Unfortunately, in his 4th year of college basketball, I don't think he is going to magically grow a right hand or start boxing out. Sure he had 8 rebounds, but half of those, if not more, were him rebounding his own missed layups. I would say the rotation problems are likely due to the fact that this was an exhibition game and they wanted to get everybody in, but this has been a recurring problem the past couple of years. So has the half court offense. Maybe this was just because it was the first game in a Valpo uniform for a good amount of these players, but its hard to believe these rotation and half court issues are going to go away with the new players when they have been around for a couple of years now. As for the attendance, I am not surprised at all by the turnout for this exhibition. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD will the student section please STAND UP. Our high school student section stands up and chants the entire game except for halftime. You mine as well just put chair backs in VU's student section they are all lounge back and being quiet. The student section was actually larger than most of last years games, which is surprising since this was an exhibition. I just hope we didn't scare the few there were away with this performance.
For 38 mins it was a 1 on a 10 scale.
We can spin this 100 ways and call it an exhibition that means nothing but you saw the character of this team tonight.
To be a little fair though there was probably a reason the defense let Kiser get more open looks then Fazekas did.
Quote from: M on November 01, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
To be a little fair though there was probably a reason the defense let Kiser get more open looks then Fazekas did.
That's fair. But we need to be able to get him open more. He took 11 shots, but most of them were awful shots. No point in having a good shooter if we can't get him open.
MLB and Matt are you reading your reviews?
The one player that pleasantly surprised me was sackey. He plays with intensity.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1058197588485292032
I agree...need a more creative offense to get the shooters better looks. I hope he has that offense tucked away for upcoming games.
So how many points do we get from Concordia in Vegas?
Ok..seriously..I only saw the stats.
Didn't the Sweet 16 team actually lose a D2 game in its regular season. That probably is uniquely done by any Sweet 16 team in history.
Scary is that West Virginia is not many days away
We already know Lottich can recruit. This really will be the season where we find out if he can coach.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 01, 2018, 10:50:34 PM
So how many points do we get from Concordia in Vegas?
Ok..seriously..I only saw the stats.
Didn't the Sweet 16 team actually lose a D2 game in its regular season. That probably is uniquely done by any Sweet 16 team in history.
Scary is that West Virginia is not many days away
Pray for Smits :(
Embarrassing... I'm just sick over this... The rest of the MVC is laughing at us. This was not the team I saw last year from Indiana State onwards. Sadly it will never change until these soft Horizon League 7 footers finally graduate and we get players that can actually rebound and defend. How far the on-court product has fallen in just over two years is just mindboggling. We got outrebounded by a non-D1. Sit Smits until he learns to play some defense. Already ready to see more Sackey and less Lavender. Just disgusted.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 01, 2018, 10:51:27 PM
We already know Lottich can recruit. This really will be the season where we find out if he can coach.
Certainly has proved he can recruit. Now that the roster is composed of his recruits, it's time to see if he uses them properly. Hopefully tonight, as an exhibition, was just him trying different things out and seeing where everybody fits in. This exhibition was a lot more productive than last years 48 points blowout in terms of getting feedback and locating weaknesses.
The first words that should have been spoken was, "This is not acceptable."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdeOqEZnzM
I agree. He spent way too much time trying to defend the quality of the opponent and stressing that the game didn't count. To a large extent players and fans do not care about these things. It's simple logic: D1s beat D2s. When D2s beat D1s the narrative isn't "Wow that D2 is really good," it's "Whats wrong with the D1?" We can argue about whether that's fair or not but it doesn't change the reality. This was many folks first impression of this season's team and indeed of the Matt Lottich era and it was not a good one. The game may not have counted but the impression that it made on the casual fan sure does. That is going to stay in the minds of folks now when they're deciding whether or not to come out to a game. Students who have been told what a great team we have just saw them get punked by a non-D1 in their own gym. You can't call out students like Lottich has in the past and then show up unprepared to beat a non-D1. Nobody cares that UINDY beat Tennessee a few years ago. How many players from that team are even still on the roster? Nobody cares what South Carolina or UCF did. We care about what Valpo did, and what Valpo did was get outclassed by a team it should have beaten. If they go out and get off to a good start and beat WKU all will be well and forgiven, but until then this score and this stat sheet should be on the bulletin board for the next time someone fails to box out misses a rotation fails to get back on D or turns the ball over. Because this is what happens when you don't execute.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 08:09:21 PMQuote from: jsher3141 on November 01, 2018, 07:59:48 PMDidn't J have an underage drinking arrest last year? Could they just utilize his injury down time to serve his 2 game suspension by not being on the bench? It is just a team rule, after all... Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
Yes, I totally forgot about that. Would a suspension served count for a exhibition? I'm guessing it wouldn't but tbh I have no clue.
Unless there was another incident. That was two years ago and he was suspended for two games at the beginning of last year along with Burton.
I feel like fans can have the it doesn't matter, it doesn't count mind set. I have a real problem if a coach or player makes that a focal point in public statements.
If that was the teams mindset going in to that exhibition game then they shouldn't charge admission.
I was unable to watch the game. However, if our offensive sets were as bad as others have mentioned, that is the real takeaway here. The biggest criticism for the last 2 years has been an inept and stagnant half court offense. You can't have that in college basketball. I will give Lottich the benefit of the doubt for the remainder of the season only. He needs to get that fixed.
The offense needs a floor leader and at least one consistent person to run the offense through. There's no structure right now and we can't spend another year waiting to see if someone steps up.
Valpo is a punch line this morning. Everyone in this program should feel embarrassed by that pathetic performance.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
I'll give a pass on the play calls tonight because it's an exhibition. Coaches are suppose experiment in these games.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 09:59:02 PMCoach Lottich should have coached this game to win it. After the crap this fan-base had to watch last season he can not be experimenting in a close game vs a D2.
Both of these posters make valid points.
This stuff happens. I'd be far more concerned if UIndy shot the ball really well from inside the arc (11-31 last night) than thinking that Fazekas is going to go 1-11. Teams grow and develop. Now, getting beaten on the glass the way that Valpo did is a concern, but I wouldn't be overly concerned by the game yesterday. Now, if the poor shooting becomes a trend, then yes, it's probably not going to be a good year, but based on previous seasons, I'd be surprised if Evelyn and Fazekas continued to play as poorly as they did on the offensive end.
Some thoughts after letting this digest overnight:
- Losing to a DII in your gym is unacceptable. I also was a little peeved hearing Lottich try to justify it, HOWEVER, we have no idea what was said in that locker room. Lottich follows 3 Drews who would NEVER throw their players under the bus, and I can respect that. But as I said above, we will know in the next couple of months if this guy can actually coach. There are REASONS we lost this game, there are no EXCUSES for losing.
-I think the new comers will be ok. Sackey was great, Javon struggled a bit but looked like he belonged out there, and while I've never been as high on Fazekas as some but his shooting motion is fine. Have to keep in mind he has played little in the past two years and is being asked to play a bigger role here than he was out east.
-As I said above, I appreciate Smits being a little more aggressive on offense, but baring a personality change there's no way to describe him as anything other than a disappointment. I have to remind myself he redshirted a year, and is a Bryce Horizon League recruit, rather than a Lottich MVC recruit. I'm just simply tired of watching guards out rebound him.
-Most of us have said all summer that we understand our record this year isn't all that important. The talent, the coaching, heck even the home schedule, is all built for a program defining 19-20 season. That being said, you still want to win, and improve. The stagnant offense is still stagnant, the set plays still don't work, and our out of bound plays are only designed to get the ball in and not score.
-We're primed to go to SC and get our teeth kicked in. So how do we come out of that? Come home and handle the lesser competition and get ready for conference. Aim to be the team no one wants to play in St Louis. However this year ends it needs to be in a manner that leaves the team and fan base counting the hours until 19-20.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 02, 2018, 08:07:39 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
I'll give a pass on the play calls tonight because it's an exhibition. Coaches are suppose experiment in these games.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 01, 2018, 09:59:02 PMCoach Lottich should have coached this game to win it. After the crap this fan-base had to watch last season he can not be experimenting in a close game vs a D2.
Both of these posters make valid points.
It's fine to experiment in the first half but in the second half when you are in a neck and neck game that goes out the window. When we were struggling to pull away he should be coaching to win the game at all costs.
Last nights game really disgusted me. I've been a person to preach patience when it comes to Coach Lottich but nights like last night slowly builds up and you start to erode goodwill with the fan-base. I'm not suggesting he be fired because of a exhibition loss but these things start to accumulate and the fans start to begin to lose trust in the head coach. This was no way to properly start the season.
Coach Lottich has as much to prove this season as any player on that roster. The jury is still out. I won't lose faith in him because of last night but that game did him no favors.
Quote from: AranJacobs on November 01, 2018, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 01, 2018, 10:51:27 PM
We already know Lottich can recruit. This really will be the season where we find out if he can coach.
Certainly has proved he can recruit. Now that the roster is composed of his recruits, it's time to see if he uses them properly. Hopefully tonight, as an exhibition, was just him trying different things out and seeing where everybody fits in. This exhibition was a lot more productive than last years 48 points blowout in terms of getting feedback and locating weaknesses.
Quote from: AranJacobs on November 01, 2018, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 01, 2018, 10:51:27 PM
We already know Lottich can recruit. This really will be the season where we find out if he can coach.
Certainly has proved he can recruit. Now that the roster is composed of his recruits, it's time to see if he uses them properly. Hopefully tonight, as an exhibition, was just him trying different things out and seeing where everybody fits in. This exhibition was a lot more productive than last years 48 points blowout in terms of getting feedback and locating weaknesses.
Has he shown an ability to recruit? There's 1 player on the roster whose ceiling is All-MVC 2nd team.
I see the over reactors are out in full force.
Yesterday before game - This team is stacked, we should be able to compete
Today - This team is horrible and we are going to be embarrassed all season
I agree, it was not a good performance on many fronts, BUT its Game 0 (not even game 1).
Fazekas hasn't played in two years and he shot like it.
McMillan first game played at center
2 Freshman's first game
Lavendar first game with the team
I wish Golder and Evelyn would have shown up but this game was less about them
Smitts showed some good aggression on offense shooting, but yes, he is a liability on defense (we already knew that)
Kiser was Kiser
Sometimes games like this are exactly what a team needs. Lights a fire, shows what needs to be corrected, and work out the kinks. Remember, last year we were undefeated for a long time, and we know how that ended.
I don't think being mad equates to overreacting.
Yes it's game 0 and didn't count but that team should be embarrassed and they deserve to be called out for it. I could swallow the poor performances better if it it didn't come to a loss to a local D2 team. I think D2s don't get enough credit for the quality of basketball they play but this Valpo team is much more talented then that UIndy team.
I definitely think this team is better than what they showed last night but that doesn't excuse that horrendous loss. I hope this lights a fire under their @$$, because if it doesn't then they don't deserve to wear the name on the front of the jersey.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 02, 2018, 09:35:13 AMI don't think being mad equates to overreacting. Yes it's game 0 and didn't count but that team should be embarrassed and they deserve to be called out for it. I could swallow the poor performances better if it it didn't come to a loss to a local D2 team. I think D2s don't get enough credit for the quality of basketball they play but this Valpo team is much more talented then that UIndy team. I definitely think this team is better than what they showed last night but that doesn't excuse that horrendous loss. I hope this lights a fire under their @$$, because if it doesn't then they don't deserve to wear the name on the front of the jersey.
Don't get me wrong, they should feel embarrassed and should be called out for poor play, but beyond that lets take the loss with a grain of salt... time will tell what this team really is, this game will not define them.
Rebounding is the issue that I have the most problem with. It was an issue last year and it appears to be the same this year. No excuse to get out rebounded by that team. Rebounding goes to effort and positioning along with the style of offense. Todd said that he thought we would run a lot of 4 out 1 in offense and this can contribute to the low board numbers if everyone is standing on the perimeter and the "in" player is not a dominate rebounder. I can live with the poor shooting and the fact that Matt was obviously trying out different players and combinations under game conditions. He was obviously trying very hard to establish Fazekas as the go to player in key situations. This style of offense requires an awareness from the off side players when it comes to rebounding that happens naturally in other offenses because of your relationship to the basket.
I have seen Ryan shoot in person at practice and feel that 1-11 is an anomaly we won't see happen too often in his VU career. Once again (as an outsider I don't really like to put pressure on the kid) he needs to rebound at a higher rate if he is going to be playing 25-30 minutes a game. 2 rebounds in 26 minutes is disappointing for a 6'8" front court player.
It was an exhibition that actually gave the coaches more to work on under game conditions then you would normally see in this type of game. Let's hope we learn from this experience.
Yes this was a disappointing loss. I thought for most of the time the team lacked enthusiasm. The only time I saw excitement was when Sackey came in and lit a spark for a little while. Fazekas going 1-11 and Evelyn 3-10 really is an anomaly and if only one more shot went in we would be singing a slightly better song. Hopefully this will be a good wake up call and learning experience.
Right now I'm trying to keep up my own positive enthusiasm. Trying not to throw in the towel on one bad game.
On the bright side, we now have basketball back!
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1058213686123421696
Quote from: a3uge on November 02, 2018, 09:14:54 AMHas he shown an ability to recruit? There's 1 player on the roster whose ceiling is All-MVC 2nd team.
If you are trying to stir the pot, I am sure you have succeeded. I personally think your statement is highly unlikely.
I agree with FWalum's comment on rebounding. A person can understand the other excuses, feeble as they are, but I don't get being out-rebounded. To me, that simply means that the team got beat.
Others have guessed that Matt was experimenting with lineups, etc. I have no insight other than what I saw at the game, but to me it looked like he was coaching to win. Which, again, is troubling because it means that the team simply got beat.
I guess that the upshot is that this game will be a better learning experience than a 30 point blow-out.
I've cooled down a bit from this morning. I had to endure a coworker's (Butler alum) rath this morning about the loss and mocking. I vented on the board.
Still really disappointed about the loss. Thankfully it was just a exhibition but the optics are probably what bothers me the most.
Gotta get tougher and meaner down low. Quick.
What is with the four, who were not taking the shot, running to the defensive basket as soon as the ball left the shooter's hands, instead of looking for an offensive rebound? This happened many times. Turns out, with our pathetic shooting, there were offensive rebounds to be had.
I don't understand how Valpo was out-rebounded (and by so much) last night. The Crusaders had a definite size advantage inside. Offensive rebounding was pathetic. The team missed 41 shots. Nevertheless, if you don't count Smits rebounding his own misses, the only other players to get an offensive rebound were Fazekas with 1 and Kiser with 2, for a total of 3!
Besides Sackey's energy, the only other positive for the night was the change to the overhead scoreboard. I liked the new format, even the gold color someone else felt hard to read.
I figured our warm up to Indy would be our scrimmage vs UIC. This team has been on the court together in a game situation.
It's hard to come to work and have non Valpo fans take the program serious when you lose a game like this. Hard day listening to Butler, IU, Purdue fans questioning the level of play at Valpo.
I wonder if Fazekas going down hard at the beginning of the game affected his performance. He stayed down for a while and he looked to be in a little pain on the bench. Don't know if he just got the wind knocked out of him or not. He did look OK when he came back. Just wondering if that threw him off some what for the rest of the game.
Let's get an upset win vs the Concordia Golden Gobblers in game #1 and we can re-start the season.
Not sure why people are upset with the offensive (pun intended!) rebounding. If we are playing 4 out and 1 in on offense, I'd rather have the 4 go back and get set on defense rather than having them crash the boards where a) the shot may go in or b) offensive rebounding averages/percentages are low.
Still a horrible loss whatever way you wanna slice it.
Losing to a middle of the road D2 team is never a good look. Hopefully it's a big wake up call for all and they get it together. I'm beginning to worry about Myrtle beach tourney
Quote from: VUBBFan on November 02, 2018, 11:23:10 AMYes this was a disappointing loss. I thought for most of the time the team lacked enthusiasm.
In any sport, particularly on offense, if a team isn't going well it appears to lack energy and enthusiasm.
Valpo took 12 free throws which indicates there weren't a lot of trips towards the basket. The outside game was awful. Thus the lack of energy.
The team is young and some are/were probably overstating the provable talent level of the roster. Until the roster matures and or the talent level becomes demonstrable, I think tempered enthusiasm would be appropriate. There's nothing that the team does particularly well and there isn't a player on the roster who is a defined go to guy when things aren't working or a big basket is needed.
How much longer does the youth excuse have as a viable explanation? We certainly shouldn't be able to go to that all season. At most I give it until conference play. If we haven't figured things out by then it will be past time to look for more valid explanations than youth.
The Lottich teams do not move the ball around as much as the previous crusader teams. Too much dribbling not enough movement makes it very easy to defend against us.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 02, 2018, 11:38:16 PMHow much longer does the youth excuse have as a viable explanation? We certainly shouldn't be able to go to that all season. At most I give it until conference play. If we haven't figured things out by then it will be past time to look for more valid explanations than youth.
Sure...if you want to "break down" a post and take one portion of a complete comment you'd come up with this conclusion. Read it in its entirety and maybe you have a more complete understanding of what was actually posted.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 03, 2018, 08:13:12 AMThe Lottich teams do not move the ball around as much as the previous crusader teams. Too much dribbling not enough movement makes it very easy to defend against us.
Coach K: "To play effectively you must be able spot up and take clean looks at the basket and make those shots along with your free throws. If you can't do that you can't play".
While that applies to the Duke program specifically, Valpo doesn't appear to have much in the way of spot up shooters and without players effective in penetration to score rather than dish, I'm not sure how they are expected to run an offense. That may change as some of the younger players....oops...don't want to offend anyone with a youth comment....let me say "newer" players show what they can do.
Let's just say I'm not confident that Valpo finds those effective enough to be the difference makers we want them to be at this point.
UIndy and Ball State were tied 51-51 at half last night before BSU pulled away for a 16 point win. UIndy probably ran out of gas playing on back-to-back nights.
Obviously UIndy has talent, but ball state is projected around 3rd in the mac west. I hope we have higher expectations for us in the MVC.
Did anyone look at the minutes played for the UIndy game? Indy had 3 or 4 guys over 30 minutes. Our minutes were very spread out, and I think we had one at the 30 level. To me that shows that Indy was really after it and we were experimenting with many and varied lineups. For all of those harshly criticizing the way our staff ran the game, remember Bethel? That was the year of our Sweet Sixteen run.
I know the outcome was horrendous for some but I look at some things that transpired and don't see it nearly as bad.
Shooting and rebounding were the areas that stood out to everyone as being not so good. And they were. But if you look inside those numbers, you see some of it goes hand in hand. Valpo shot 35% from the field and 16% from 3. I don't know the last time, if ever, I saw Valpo only make 16% of its 3's. The team shot 63 times and only made 22. That gave Indy 41 opportunities for a defensive rebound which is A LOT of opportunity and a good way to pad the rebounding stats. Out of those 63 shots Evelyn and Fazekas shot 21 which is a Third of them And only made a combined 4 of those attempts. I don't think that happens again or even comes close. If so, maybe a temperance of expectations is in order. On the flip side, Indy only had 55 attempts which is 8 less. Valpo was outrebounded by 9. All Valpo had to do was make 2 more of those extra 8and they win. Also, it sounded as if the effort and desire were somewhat lacking. Rebounding is about positioning, size and height to a large degree but it's also about tenacity and desire. Improve that and increase motivation, which is easier than teaching size, and you should see the rebounding improve. They're going to have to because if McMillan is starting st Center and playing significant 5 minutes you are going to be outsized most nights.
For me the good from the box score was Indy only scored 4 points off of 9 Valpo turnovers while VU scored 15 off of 14 for Indy. TO's and point disparity between VU and their opponents was one the biggest things that hurt them last year so that was nice to see. Defense seemed to be on par what we'd expect holding Indy to 34.5% from the field. And Free Throw shooting was at around 83% which is damn good.
I'm a glass half full guy. I still believe in the potential of the team and think shots will start falling, chemistry and rotations will tighten up and effort will improve. The last one is what I'll pay most attention to after the Concordia game. If it doesn't, after a lackluster performance out of the gate, will disappoint me more than anything.
Quote from: valpo64 on November 03, 2018, 10:27:45 AMremember Bethel
I figured this would pop up sooner or later. Our team is no way even close to a sweet 16 team. Plus if I remember correctly Bryce didn't even play in this game.
We are rationalizing the seriousness of this loss. It easy for us as we all love the program. But from the outside this team is very flawed.
Quote from: Chairback on November 03, 2018, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on November 03, 2018, 10:27:45 AMremember Bethel
I figured this would pop up sooner or later. Our team is no way even close to a sweet 16 team. Plus if I remember correctly Bryce didn't even play in this game.
We are rationalizing the seriousness of this loss. It easy for us as we all love the program. But from the outside this team is very flawed.
And, let me add this was not a situation of an overmatched team that played the game of their life. They shot a horrendous percentage from the field and a horrendous percentage from the FT line and still won. If anything, they walked away feeling like they should won by more. At the same time, I agree that we shouldn't make too much of any exhibition game, regardless of the outcome. But, make no mistake. There is no way to describe just how badly the team performed or minimize how much improvement they need to make.
Quote from: JD24 on November 03, 2018, 09:02:23 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on November 02, 2018, 11:38:16 PMHow much longer does the youth excuse have as a viable explanation? We certainly shouldn't be able to go to that all season. At most I give it until conference play. If we haven't figured things out by then it will be past time to look for more valid explanations than youth.
Sure...if you want to "break down" a post and take one portion of a complete comment you'd come up with this conclusion. Read it in its entirety and maybe you have a more complete understanding of what was actually posted.
I read it and agree with much of what you said (a fact I admittedly should have explicitly stated in my previous post) the small part I chose to address was chosen because I think it is a major disservice to a team with seven juniors and a senior on it to allow them to get by with the youth excuse. That's all.
To be clear, there is nothing "young" about this team. The team has four red-shirt juniors (fourth year of college) and one grad student (fifth year of college, plus three legit juniors. That is a LOT of experience.
The issue which hopefully will work itself out is the lack of experience playing together in game situations. Ryan hasn't played in a game for over a year let alone playing in a game with the others. Same for Levander and Javon. So, three starters haven't played together other than in practice. I'm a bout a three handicap on the range and about a fifteen on the course.
I expect to see a great deal of improvement against a team WAY lower in talent and size and continued improvement going into conference play. The non-con could get ugly. I hope not.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1058761830959583232
Granted we played very poorly and it was a crappy game for an "opener". On the other hand, other than the Bethel game, remember another "strange" exibition game a year or 2 ago when Michigan State got beat. Now that this terrible performance is over, lets get the ball rolling against Concordia and forget the Indy disaster. GO VALPO!
Quote from: vu72 on November 03, 2018, 02:49:35 PMTo be clear, there is nothing "young" about this team.
Well then whoever is young or new better get better real quick because what came back ain't all that great.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1059561232213164032
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1059561686330499079
"They're a little embarrassed."
Good. They should be. So is the fanbase. They'd better show significant improvement tomorrow. They need to go out and level Concordia by 30+ points.
I guess it's not all bad. We could be UT-San Antonio right now.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401090313
This one counted.