Western KY was actually leading Washington at Seattle at half time and only scored 19 in the 2nd half while losing 73-55. The Hilltoppers were up by 9 at half, 36-27.
They play at Tennessee-Martin on 11/10/18 Saturday.
WKU 83
Valpo 62
We have a rebounding and offensive flow issue that will be exposed against our first D1 opponent.
Quote from: Chairback on November 07, 2018, 12:41:54 PM
WKU 83
Valpo 62
We have a rebounding and offensive flow issue that will be exposed against our first D1 opponent.
OOC record 7-6
MVC record 10-8
Overall record 17-14
1-1 in MVC tournament
CBI if that still exists...
20-wins are hard to find with our solid OOC and MVC schedule. A record like this in a year where we aren't fighting for a championship is actually a success IMO. This team will find it's way in December in time for a solid conference schedule.
Eventually we find a way to compete for a championship every 2/4 years and that starts next year for our team.
Still ecstatic to see these guys gel and play a strong MVC slate!!
Concordia, which was a very small team, had 11 offensive rebounds. We just don't crash the boards or swarm the ball. Other than Jay, it just doesn't seem to be in the DNA of our bigger players. Book it that we going to have big problems with aggressive front courts that crash the offensive glass. Upcoming opponents will be licking their chops when they see "film" of last night's game. Jay can be a big help in this area. I hope he's back soon.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1060010309115670534
2019 Rebounder recruit is crucial! Someone to go with Javon and Daniel.
Quote from: tiny707 on November 07, 2018, 04:05:20 PM
2019 Rebounder recruit is crucial! Someone to go with Javon and Daniel.
Keep your fingers crossed that we land Bediako. He's true center that has tools to be really well rounded defensively and he has a developing offensive game as well.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 07, 2018, 03:45:38 PM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1060010309115670534
I'm glad he tweeted this. I was listening to the postgame show on 95.1 on the way home, and just as Luke got mic'd up, the feed cut out and never came back before the end of the broadcast. Paul must have been sitting at the broadcast table.
Quote from: wh on November 07, 2018, 06:17:58 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 07, 2018, 03:45:38 PM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1060010309115670534
I'm glad he tweeted this. I was listening to the postgame show on 95.1 on the way home, and just as Luke got mic'd up, the feed cut out and never came back before the end of the broadcast. Paul must have been sitting at the broadcast table.
Are Paul and Michael going to be taking up residence at the scorers table again? Our media guys should be down on the court where they belong.
https://twitter.com/pjankValpo/status/1058148524846710784
Wow!
We have 20 seats on the courtside scorer's table/press row. The expansion of TV/video broadcasts requires 4 seats for all that equipment, plus 1 seat for the timeout coordinator. In addition, when we joined the MVC, we had to add replay equipment, which takes up another two spots, and it is also mandated that there is a spot for an event management staff member.
Long story short, there are a number of spots being taken up by personnel who wouldn't have taken up spots in the past. You add in the table crew (scoreboard/clock/official scorers), PA/marketing, sports info/stats, and seats for visiting team personnel, and you run out of available seats quickly. I can do a lot of things with numbers, but I can't make 26 people fit into 20 seats. It's why a few years ago, I started moving our writers up onto the track, and why last year, we moved both radio positions onto the track as well.
That photo was taken at our exhibition game, which we didn't have video for, hence no broadcasters/timeout coordinator/replay equipment. I made the decision to keep my seating setup like it would be for a normal regular season game, rather than move people downstairs for just one game and then move them right back to the track.
Thanks for the thorough explanation, Aaron. If/when the ARC get's rennovated, would this situation be factored into seating plans to bring those up on the track back down to courtside?
Who cares where they sit. The guy that tweeted that picture out needs to let it go already. You can see better from up high anyways.
Let's pay the Hilltoppers a few bucks to play us in "Hilltop Gym" this weekend. Then their team and ours can both do some sightseeing in Myrtle Beach on the day before their next game and be rested for day two. :)
Being in Valpo tonight I realize that the time I put in the subject line for this Western Kentucky game was 5:00 p.m. EASTERN. For those in the Central time zone the game time is 4:00 p.m. on a Thursday. Many of you will need to listen at the end of your work day or hurry home after work to see this game on ESPNU.
Edit: Fixed subject line
It does get better.
If we beat WKY then we play on Friday the 16th at 9:00 p.m. EST / 8:00 p.m. CST most likely against West Virginia. If we lose to WKY then we play at 6:30 p.m. EST / 5:30 p.m. CST most likely against Monmouth. If we lose we play on ESPN3, if we win we play on ESPNU.
FYI, Western KY knocked off Tennessee-Martin 86-71 on Saturday.
Hollingsworth 22 pts
Murray 18 pts
Savage 16 pts
Bassey 15 pts
Anderson 7 pts
Smith 6 pts
Horton 2 pts
The betting line opened with the Hilltoppers at -5, I'd be thrilled if it's that close. I got a feeling it will move to -6 or more tomorrow. Unfortunately I think WKU will cover with several points to spare. I watched Todd's weekly preview ,and in my opinion, Lottich didn't seem confident about his team. Hopefully I'm wrong!
Valpo-59
WKU-74
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on November 15, 2018, 01:58:36 AM
The betting line opened with the Hilltoppers at -5, I'd be thrilled if it's that close. I got a feeling it will move to -6 or more tomorrow. Unfortunately I think WKU will cover with several points to spare. I watched Todd's weekly preview ,and in my opinion, Lottich didn't seem confident about his team. Hopefully I'm wrong!
Valpo-59
WKU-74
Kenpom line is Valpo as a 3 point dog. Neither of their games did WKU play up to expectations, so it really depends on how you feel about this Valpo team since they haven't played anyone yet. Personally I think Valpo has the talent to compete with (and possibly beat) WKU, especially early on in the season given Valpo has more roster continuity from last year.
Thanks for the post upthread, Aaron. Disregard Tweeter Complainer.
We have yet to see our starting five on the floor. In the UW game we were missing our starting forward and our starting point guard. In the UT Martin game we were missing our starting point guard. We will still be missing our point guard until Dec. 16th. He thought he was going pro last year, so stopped going to classes last spring. Kids do dumb things. Also Bassey has been playing with a large knee brace. I am hoping he can get rid of that, it will help his mobility. The UT Martin game was not close. We were up by quite a bit, and played the bench. Looking forward to this tournament.
Quote from: mjg100 on November 15, 2018, 07:56:09 AM
We have yet to see our starting five on the floor. In the UW game we were missing our starting forward and our starting point guard. In the UT Martin game we were missing our starting point guard. We will still be missing our point guard until Dec. 16th. He thought he was going pro last year, so stopped going to classes last spring. Kids do dumb things. Also Bassey has been playing with a large knee brace. I am hoping he can get rid of that, it will help his mobility. The UT Martin game was not close. We were up by quite a bit, and played the bench. Looking forward to this tournament.
Thanks for the WKU team update and welcome to the board. I think you should feel comfortable watching this game because as was mentioned before this Valpo team has a huge problem in the rebounding dept and if your big man has skills in the offensive end he will kill us under the basket. Our bigs just have no tenacity.
My prediction is WKU 73 - VU 58. We won't completely roll over but we have a lot holes in our game.
If Josh Anderson or Dalano Banton learn the point guard role, we will do fine. If not, we will struggle some until Bearden gets back.
I'm surprised we can hire MVC refs for a practice. Seems like if you pay them enough calls can go your way once you are in a real game. I'm sure there are controls around this but just seems odd you can hire them
Line has moved to -6.5 for WKU, probably will be at -7 in a couple hours! I don't think we've had enough time to gel,I think we'll be above .500 in the MVC but NOV/DEC are gonna be rough!
Quote from: bbtds on November 15, 2018, 10:21:15 AMThanks for the WKU team update and welcome to the board. I think you should feel comfortable watching this game because as was mentioned before this Valpo team has a huge problem in the rebounding dept and if your big man has skills in the offensive end he will kill us under the basket. Our bigs just have no tenacity.
Our fanbase is very anxious to gauge the progress that our center trio of Sorolla, McMillan and Smits have made. All have had some struggles with defense and rebounding. The November level of play from our centers should reveal the limits of how good we might be by March. As an outsider you should be forewarned that the VU fans might get excited about only modest improvements in their play. That is because none has consistently lived up to our expectations. Thus a sudden leap up to adequacy would be viewed by me as a giant step forward! :thumbsup: WKU by 8????
Perhaps you will find this board to be well spoken and reasonably fair.
When I look at other messages boards at times I typically see a lot of name calling and profanity. That is just a general observation.
With the recruiting class plus returning players we have, I have been anxious for basketball season to start for six months. :) Our message board is also pretty civiil. Hope for a good clean game with no injuries. :)
We need to do better on the defensive boards.
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15 POINTS ON THE BOARD... 10 of them are second chance points... Yup... need our 7-footer to matchup with theirs
LOVING the shot selection.
However this game turns out I know one thing. We are ONE semi competent big away from being a really good team. WHY CANT YOU BE 6'11 KISER?
We also need to stop giving up the dribble with no plan to shoot or pass. Really hampers the offensive flow.
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I hate these officiating delays - either make the call or don't.
Western Kentucky is not a great passing team. I'd stay in the zone to hopefully limit their dribble drives. Valpo's getting beat badly on the glass anyway, so the zone isn't going to negatively impact that.
Kiser is killing this team
Edit: deficit ballooned to 9 before he's taken out. He gives nothing offensively and can't rebound.
This whole swing is due to the fact that we have to play two ends of the floor compensating for the fact that Derrik Smits hasn't gotten any better since he set foot on campus.
Just getting humiliated on the boards.
He's overmatched. Not his fault. Didn't he walk on?
What would be great is to have a tall guy with a big wing span to stay in the path of Bassey. Oh wait......
If this isn't the time to put in our big guy just to take up space, what is? But I can see why Matt opts not to do it.
Well, hanging with a good team was fun while it lasted.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 15, 2018, 04:47:01 PM
He's overmatched. Not his fault. Didn't he walk on?
What would be great is to have a tall guy with a big wing span to stay in the path of Bassey. Oh wait......
If this isn't the time to put in our big guy just to take up space, what is? But I can see why Matt opts not to do it.
I'm not blaming Kiser... I'm blaming the coach who has over played him the past two years.
How did western Kentucky get all these potential pros?
They hired the big guys guardian. Basically what Maravilla pulled with Skara but perfectly legal. Bet he ends up with a "film" job with whatever NBA team drafts him.
Good question. Bassey is just turning 18. Scary. They will probably be very good this year.
When it comes to MVC play and any game against length, I am afraid that Cheesehead's comment nails the issue. I so hate to personalize this.
I do really like Lavender. Very reliable with the ball and creates good angles that are pretty hard to find without a big in the middle.
Unfortunately, going about the way I was afraid it would. In it for a while, but giving up so many offensive rebounds and second chance points gets demoralizing. Forced to foul to try to keep WKU off the boards so they get 20 free throws to our 8.
It's more than just the big guy that is a 4 star recruit potential pro.
The stats show we each have 8 offensive rebounds - WKU has 16 second chance points to our 9. Still need to box out better.
We are getting good looks from 3 pt land, need to make a few more the second half. I don't see WKU hitting another 60% from 3 or land in second half.
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Well....only positive I'm taking from the first half is I had western Kentucky -3.....for a couple units. If I'm going to watch us lose at least I can make money doing it.
Good Grief! Charlie Brown hit six 3-pointers for St. Joseph to wipe out Wake Forest in game #1.
Oh I completely separate the personal and what's going on on the floor. I couldn't be more impressed with Derrik as a person and a student. He's incredibly bright and has always been very polite to my daughters who like him because he's so tall. But I am extremely disappointed in his lack of development and lack of defensive aggression. Granted, he's a Bryce Drew Horizon League recruit. But at some point you can't be anything other than disappointed by his strides, or lack there of, on the court.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 15, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
Good question. Bassey is just turning 18. Scary. They will probably be very good this year.
When it comes to MVC play and any game against length, I am afraid that Cheesehead's comment nails the issue. I so hate to personalize this.
I do really like Lavender. Very reliable with the ball and creates good angles that are pretty hard to find without a big in the middle.
Freeman looks promising as well.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 15, 2018, 05:06:23 PM
It's more than just the big guy that is a 4 star recruit potential pro.
Yeah, it's also having a 7-2 3-Star Red-shirt junior that can't do his job - 2 fouls, 0 points and 0 rebounds, 0 blocks in 2 minutes of playing time - leaving a mismatch for others to contend with.
The two transfers are a combined 4-17 from three.
Quote from: wh on November 15, 2018, 05:21:20 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 15, 2018, 05:06:23 PM
It's more than just the big guy that is a 4 star recruit potential pro.
Yeah, it's also having a 7-2 3-Star Red-shirt junior that can't do his job - 2 fouls, 0 points and 0 rebounds, 0 blocks in 2 minutes of playing time - leaving a mismatch for others to contend with.
This was a likely loss the minute our schedule was announced. But we've shown solid despite their length hurting the passing lanes and disrupting any flow offensively.
But boy FT attempts (disparity) was alarming. Guess last year they ranked #1 in free throw disparity sooo......that isn't changing this year.
Hollingsworth and Savage were impressive. WKU has a solid season ahead of them as we all knew.
Valpo isn't out of this one yet - if they can keep the pace disjointed and ugly, they aren't far away from turning this one completely around.
Agreed smits is a great student and person. Wish he could contribute a little more on the court. I wonder if jay could have helped.
We are still in this one guys!!!
We need better post presence on offensive and defensive ends.
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 15, 2018, 05:49:58 PM
Valpo isn't out of this one yet - if they can keep the pace disjointed and ugly, they aren't far away from turning this one completely around.
Too many empty possessions down the stretch. Still love the team's fight, especially with this talent mismatch.
Terrible defense...I've never seen a team get so many offensive rebounds. Way too many second chance points.
That was a painful performance by Smits.
The positive is that it was at least close at times.
There is a definite mismatch here but you have stallions you run, yiou cannot hang with a team like this in the half court, you need to run.
We got very lackadaisical with the ball. Like we thought this game was over, when it wasn't. You see why we are needing our point guard back. We have not done a pick and roll once tonight.
We played them pretty even in the second half which impressed me a little. I half expected to just be blown out in the second half but we found ways to be more effective. If we had had Jay to sub in for Smits and at least be a larger presense in the middle then we might have been able to play a little tighter defense on the perimeter. Two or three more missed threes on their part and just a little better three point shooting on our part and we would have been right there.
They showed they could play with these guys for long stretches of the game and that at least is encouraging.
Assists 15
TO 12
Solid start, last years team would've turned it over 20+ against this length.
Lavender is a solid solid pickup.
I don't think that there was a scenario in my head in which Valpo won this game. Went pretty much how most of us expected. Thought the team did alright in the midst of the challenges of the way the game played out, from minute 1, the style of the game went how WKY wanted it to.
You can't run when your opponent makes that many easy shots off of rebounds, if the Hilltoppers missed more 3's with long rebounds, then it would have been a different story. At the same time, if Fazekas and Valpo made a few more threes then it would have been a different story...then again, that's not how the game played out.
Personally glad for the quick turnaround. Sounds like Monmouth should be a winnable game. We shall see. Disappointed, but not "embarrassed."
Quote from: valpolaw on November 15, 2018, 06:01:39 PM
Terrible defense...I've never seen a team get so many offensive rebounds. Way too many second chance points.
That was a painful performance by Smits.
The positive is that it was at least close at times.
Offensive Reb
WKU 14
Valpo 13
Total Reb
WKU 41
Valpo 31
It was our missed shots leading to rebound disparity I'd imagine. It was close on offensive rebounds. We also took (8) more shots because we ran very few offensive sets and Bakari/Fazekas have a penchant for quick 3 attempts...
I'm still excited for a solid season and strong MVC showing.
Oh, and can anybody tell what the crowd was yelling on the "BUM BUM BUM" part of Sweet Caroline after WKY made that dagger 3? It didn't sound friendly on TV.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 15, 2018, 05:54:22 PMI wonder if jay could have helped.
Yes. Against WKU we would have seen some of Jay or Derrik at the 5 with Mileek at the 4 and Fazekas playing some 3. Instead we played a lot of a 5 guard offense with Kiser defending the post. Mileek played better than I was expecting but no one else really stood out.
Playing with only 9 scholarship players, 2 being raw freshmen is not a formula for instant success. Overall I was reasonably pleased. A healthy Micah would also have helped as Sakey looked a little stage struck.
I think J is significantly better then Smits. J had a really good freshman year and a underperforming 2nd year. But his skill level is way above Smits. He will be starting by the start of Conf games if he comes back.
2 players beat us tonight.
Golder played well, but as much as their defensive rebounding hurt them, it's tough to win games when Fazekas goes 2-10 from 3. Fazekas really looked like he got in his own head there when the shots weren't falling. His end of the shot clock make showed he's better when he just pulls the trigger and doesn't think.
Solid effort and would have been much closer had Zeke been himself. Lavender is the real deal and kept us in the game. Had we had J, this would have been very tight. Good effort overall. Hope we get healthy. Only 9 dressed?
Good luck with your next game. Monmouth hanging tough with UWV.
Quote from: vu72 on November 15, 2018, 07:13:01 PMOnly 9 dressed?
If Stalling (our walk on) was dressed, I didn't notice him. Freeman also was sick yesterday according to the broadcast. I have no idea how close to full strength he was playing.
Quote from: mjg100 on November 15, 2018, 07:27:13 PMGood luck with your next game. Monmouth hanging tough with UWV.
Monmouth looks good! I had been hoping to play West Virginia but not in the losers bracket. :o
They spell his name Rick $tansbury for a reason. It's one of the worst kept secrets in CBB that he's a dirty recruiter. He's dirty but he's also a good coach. But that's not the discussion to be had here right now. I thought WKU was a great test for our guys and this game will pay dividends for later in the season.
What clearly was the biggest issue in this game was rebounding. We had no player on our roster who could match up with their bigs. Jay Sorolla was sorely missed today, but to be honest I think Jay would still wouldn't be a great match for WKU (still much better than Smits/McMillan). Games like today makes me hope we land a guy like Bediako. I'm not sure of Skogman's defensive abilities, but he'd be a great and versatile offensive big man.
We saw 'good Sackey' in the exhibition and game 1 but today we saw 'bad Sackey'. He was erratic in his limited minutes today and I have no problem with Coach not playing him extended minutes in a game like this. Bakari needs to take care of the ball better. He's not a natural PG, which is totally fine, but he needs to limit those TOs. I thought Lavender was solid for the most part. He's not a playmaker but he's a calming presence at the point. Fazekas going 2-10 was an issue but he still contributed today even on a tough shooting night.
The offense is still a work in progress but it looks better than last years offense. You could tell they're still working some things out. I'll remain patient with the offense. As for our defense, I thought defending the paint was a blatant weakness but that's a personnel issue with Jay out and McMillan still learning on the job. Smits just isn't a good defender against quicker/more athletic big men but team defense can work around his deficiencies.
As much as the team as a whole struggled rebounding, Golder had a really nice game with 15 and 8. He seemed to be the only one who could match the athletic ability of WKU.
Also really liked seeing Deion step up in the middle of the 2nd half to keep us in the game. Hopefully he can be the key ball handler this year while Sackey develops.
A really respectable first D1 game from Javon. 10 points and he looks really calm out there for a freshman. He'll certainly be a force come conference time.
Center vs centers -------Smits- McMillan played 33 minutes with 9 fouls, 5 rebounds, 11 points, 0 blocks and 0 turnovers. Bassey played 26 minutes with 3 fouls, 6 rebounds, 8 points, 3 blocks and 4 turnovers. With Jay in the mix our interior play would have been stronger, Bassey might have fouled out and our inside out game would have given us some better looks from the perimeter. No sense worrying much about our being shorthanded because they were short their starting point guard. Net-net they still would have likely won but it would have been closer.
Hilltoppers were good. They'll make some noise.
Hard to beat good teams without toughness down low. Gotta get meaner down there, fast.
That is BS. Do you really think WKU has the money to compete against the P5 teams if players are taking money? Bassey would have ended up at a school like KU. We got Bassey, because one, Rick is a good recruiter. He usually outworks the other coaches. Also he was on Bassey shortly after coming to the US. Back when no one knew who he was. Then to seal the deal, he gave a job to Bassey's legal guardian.
Quote from: mjg100 on November 15, 2018, 11:03:18 PM
That is BS. Do you really think WKU has the money to compete against the P5 teams if players are taking money? Bassey would have ended up at a school like KU. We got Bassey, because one, Rick is a good recruiter. He usually outworks the other coaches. Also he was on Bassey shortly after coming to the US. Back when no one knew who he was. Then to seal the deal, he gave a job to Bassey's legal guardian.
All he said was that Stansbury had a reputation as a cheater.
[Goodman] Just got this text from a high major coach: "Other than Calipari and K, no one scares me more on recruiting trail than Rick $tansbury."It's sort of weird that in 15+ years as a college head coach, nobody's ever proven that Stansbury breaks the rules and yet it's universally assumed.There are a lot of good recruiters who aren't known by the media and other coaches as being cheaters. If coaches and the media think he's cheating and are willing to say so publicly or otherwise, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they would know better than you or I.This is it exactly. For whatever reason people on this sub seem to love to bury their head in the sand in terms of what really happens on the AAU circuit and how you get elite players. Stansbury just happens to be the most shameless about itI think everyone probably bends the rules, but Stansbury is probably bending them more than others. Otherwise coaches wouldnt be "scared" of him on the recruiting trail more so than anyone else.These weren't hard to find. It took about 2 minutes and there are plenty more. A lot of those quotes came from other major head coaches.
Quote from: mjg100 on November 15, 2018, 11:03:18 PM
That is BS. Do you really think WKU has the money to compete against the P5 teams if players are taking money? Bassey would have ended up at a school like KU. We got Bassey, because one, Rick is a good recruiter. He usually outworks the other coaches. Also he was on Bassey shortly after coming to the US. Back when no one knew who he was. Then to seal the deal, he gave a job to Bassey's legal guardian.
It would have been helpful if you had referenced what someone said that got you amped up because it's not readily apparent at a glance. In any event, fans of other programs are always going to question the ethics of hiring a "basketball factory legal guardian" in order to land a high profile recruit. In fact, former high profile Valpo player David Skara transferred to Clemson because we refused to hire one of his handlers to fill an assistant coaching vacancy that opened up when Bryce Drew accepted the Vanderbilt coaching position. The handler in question was a former Valpo player with assistant coaching experience, but he was not the most qualified candidate by a long shot, so Valpo took a pass, and wisely so IMO. That probably cost us 1 or maybe even 2 NCAA appearances, but that's the price you sometimes pay when you set high standards and live up to them. While there's nothing illegal about what your program did, and had you not offered the handler a job another program probably would have, it is engaging in the sleazy underbelly of D-1 recruiting where a lot of unscrupulous characters hang out.
That aside, I enjoyed watching your team. You have a ton of talent which could translate into 27-30 wins and an NCAA appearance. Good luck.
Was unable to watch the game, but from the stats it would seem that our continued inability to shoot 3's, combined with them shooting over 50% from 3, was the real difference in this game. Everyone is talking about the mismatch at center and that we sucked at rebounding, but that is not what the stats said at all. We had 10 fewer rebounds, but we took 7 more shots than they did and we shot a way lower percentage from the field.
So in all reality rebounding was NOT the biggest problem as it would have been fairly even with a better shooting performance. So either....
A.) We need to shoot less 3's and drive the ball
B.) Those shots will eventually start falling and we need to keep shooting until they start falling
C.) they had great perimeter defense
D.) our ball movement still sucks and we take hard to make 3's.
E.) Some combination of multiple factors
Although I will say if we are going to shoot a low percentage from the field we do need to be more aggressive on the boards. So if that is everyone's complaint I get it. When you don't shoot well you need to be that much more aggressive on the boards. So I get that argument.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 15, 2018, 05:09:37 PM
Well....only positive I'm taking from the first half is I had western Kentucky -3.....for a couple units. If I'm going to watch us lose at least I can make money doing it.
Hedging your feelings. Heady play.
I recorded the game to watch and decided to sleep on it before commenting. Lack of rebounding and a poor perimeter defense killed us. Javon is going to be exciting for as long as we are able to watch him!
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 16, 2018, 07:34:24 AM
Although I will say if we are going to shoot a low percentage from the field we do need to be more aggressive on the boards. So if that is everyone's complaint I get it. When you don't shoot well you need to be that much more aggressive on the boards. So I get that argument.
Questions: If you need to hit threes to open up the middle, but your offensive alignment places most of your offensive players on the perimeter, isn't it logical that a missed 3 point shot will not present an opportunity for an offensive rebound because we are outnumbered inside the arc and it will invariably end up being a defensive rebound for the opponent? I was given to understand that an effective use of the 3 was to work the ball in and then kick it out for the good look while still having players down low to rebound misses. Reading some posts over the past week or so, I'm getting the feeling that our offensive sets aren't doing that. Is that anywhere near accurate?
I hit quote selected, but it did not show the quote. My point, if a player is out there looking for money, a school like WKU can't compete against the P5 schools. KU was definitely interested in Bassey. So was UL. WKU could not come close to competing against those schools, if money is in play. As for hiring Bassey's legal guardian, it is not against the rules. You may not like it or agree with it, but perfectly legal.
As an assistant coach his best asset may be recruiting, since he has good connections with several good players. If we are able to land some of those players, then his hiring brings us a lot more than just one good player and makes sense.
Anyway, good luck with the rest of the tournament and your season. Cleanly played game and nobody got hurt. :) .
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 16, 2018, 07:23:31 AM
Was unable to watch the game, but from the stats it would seem that our continued inability to shoot 3's, combined with them shooting over 50% from 3, was the real difference in this game. Everyone is talking about the mismatch at center and that we sucked at rebounding, but that is not what the stats said at all. We had 10 fewer rebounds, but we took 7 more shots than they did and we shot a way lower percentage from the field.
So in all reality rebounding was NOT the biggest problem as it would have been fairly even with a better shooting performance. So either....
A.) We need to shoot less 3's and drive the ball
B.) Those shots will eventually start falling and we need to keep shooting until they start falling
C.) they had great perimeter defense
D.) our ball movement still sucks and we take hard to make 3's.
E.) Some combination of multiple factors
What the rebounding numbers don't tell is the alarming number of easy put backs they got off of their own missed shots - especially in the 1st half. Just guessing, I would guess they had 6 or 7 easy put backs to our 1 or 2.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2018, 09:06:52 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 16, 2018, 07:34:24 AM
Although I will say if we are going to shoot a low percentage from the field we do need to be more aggressive on the boards. So if that is everyone's complaint I get it. When you don't shoot well you need to be that much more aggressive on the boards. So I get that argument.
Questions: If you need to hit threes to open up the middle, but your offensive alignment places most of your offensive players on the perimeter, isn't it logical that a missed 3 point shot will not present an opportunity for an offensive rebound because we are outnumbered inside the arc and it will invariably end up being a defensve rebound for the opponent? I was given to understand that an effective use of the 3 was to work the ball in and then kick it out for the good look while still having players down low to rebound misses. Reading some posts over the past week or so, I'm getting the feeling that our offensive sets aren't doing that. Is that anywhere near accurate?
We only got 8 minutes from Smits prior to his reaching 5 fouls. Thus McMillan had no chance to move out to the 4 position and Ryan to the 3. Against a competent and lengthy defensive team us having a 7 footer inside with one outside big crashing glass on missed shots would have been tried. My point is that Ryan is a trained experienced 3 who had no chance to play the 3 because we were short one of our 7 footers (Jay). We will play many opponents where Fazekas as a 3 will give us no advantage but against WKU (without their starting point guard) it was an unavoidable but lost opportunity.
Quote from: wh on November 16, 2018, 09:28:49 AM
What the rebounding numbers don't tell is the alarming number of easy put backs they got off of their own missed shots - especially in the 1st half. Just guessing, I would guess they had 6 or 7 easy put backs to our 1 or 2.
Why can't we box out effectively? Especially while playing a man2man defensivive scheme. We were all taught that in 5th grade at Trinity Lutheran School, Hicksville, NY 63 years ago. It was (1) defensive positioning always between your man and the basket, (2) knees bent stance with hands in front, and at the shot all players (3)
box out with bent legs and arms spread to control your assigned opponent. Those were the three commandments of defense in 5th grade. What's changed?
One of the pleasures of watching AP play for 4 years, besides his great shooting, was that was how he played defense. He wasn't always the quickest or the best leaper, but those fundamentals made him a very good rebounder. I've watched our kids last season and just a little this season, and it seems that when the shot goes up, fundamental #3 is not consistently followed --- especially by our bigs.
Clearly part of the problem was our foul situation. We were 9 deep to start with two of those guys being guards. Derrik fouled out having played 8 whole minutes. If Maleek pushes hard to box out and fouls out then we play with no ability to stop their star center. We need J back big time.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2018, 09:52:55 AM
Quote from: wh on November 16, 2018, 09:28:49 AM
What the rebounding numbers don't tell is the alarming number of easy put backs they got off of their own missed shots - especially in the 1st half. Just guessing, I would guess they had 6 or 7 easy put backs to our 1 or 2.
Why can't we box out effectively? Especially while playing a man2man defensivive scheme. We were all taught that in 5th grade at Trinity Lutheran School, Hicksville, NY 63 years ago. It was (1) defensive positioning always between your man and the basket, (2) knees bent stance with hands in front, and at the shot all players (3) box out with bent legs and arms spread to control your assigned opponent. Those were the three commandments of defense in 5th grade. What's changed?
One of the pleasures of watching AP play for 4 years, besides his great shooting, was that was how he played defense. He wasn't always the quickest or the best leaper, but those fundamentals made him a very good rebounder. I've watched our kids last season and just a little this season, and it seems that when the shot goes up, fundamental #3 is not consistently followed --- especially by our bigs.
Good point about boxing out. And it's not just our bigs. In the second half one of their guards drove the lane on the right side of the basket, missed the shot and then followed it for an easy put back while our our guard just stood there and watched. No attempt to box out. Seems like too often we contested a shot but then never put a body on the shooter to box him out.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 16, 2018, 07:23:31 AM
Was unable to watch the game, but from the stats it would seem that our continued inability to shoot 3's, combined with them shooting over 50% from 3, was the real difference in this game. Everyone is talking about the mismatch at center and that we sucked at rebounding, but that is not what the stats said at all. We had 10 fewer rebounds, but we took 7 more shots than they did and we shot a way lower percentage from the field.
So in all reality rebounding was NOT the biggest problem as it would have been fairly even with a better shooting performance. So either....
A.) We need to shoot less 3's and drive the ball
B.) Those shots will eventually start falling and we need to keep shooting until they start falling
C.) they had great perimeter defense
D.) our ball movement still sucks and we take hard to make 3's.
E.) Some combination of multiple factors
I think you have a good point, but this game didn't just come down to shooting. They shot 33 free throws, which is a hint that we were completely outmatched. Valpo took many threes because they were playing small ball most the game (due to Smits inability to stay out of foul trouble), and their center was having a block party at the hoop.
Still waiting for McMillan to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself. Perhaps the right combination /compliments on the floor with him could help?? Kiser is way over his head against the bigger inside guys...too bad he isn't 3 or 4 inches taller. Even though we need to improve in the rebounding area, I thought we did alright against a very good, aggressive and big front line of WKU. Fazekas is overdue to start hitting 3's more consistently.
Quote from: valpo64 on November 16, 2018, 03:39:03 PM
Still waiting for McMillan to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself. Perhaps the right combination /compliments on the floor with him could help?? Kiser is way over his head against the bigger inside guys...too bad he isn't 3 or 4 inches taller. Even though we need to improve in the rebounding area, I thought we did alright against a very good, aggressive and big front line of WKU. Fazekas is overdue to start hitting 3's more consistently.
I thought Kiser actually played pretty well. He was just playing against guys who were physically more talented than him. I kind of had a laugh when I saw Kiser defending Bassey in the post. One guy was a walk-on and the other is a project Top 10 lottery pick lol.
He made some good screens and played fundamentally sound basketball. But I hear what your saying that he was no match for the competition he was playing against. He was scrapping out there. He'd be much more valuable to this squad if he could become a 80% FT shooter and started hitting open 3s from a respectable clip.
We need to get McMillan going. I think he looks more confident out there which is a positive but we need to him to stop picking up fouls.
Quote from: valpo64 on November 16, 2018, 03:39:03 PMStill waiting for McMillan to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself.
He is playing a new position and he played it against a top notch opponent while scoring 7 points, not turning the ball over, and lasting 25 minutes without fouling out. If Smits had shown equal improvement we could be facing West Virginia tonight. While maybe my short term expectations for Mileek are more modest than yours my sense is that long term he can be good both at the 4 or the 5.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 16, 2018, 04:06:15 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on November 16, 2018, 03:39:03 PM
Still waiting for McMillan to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself. Perhaps the right combination /compliments on the floor with him could help?? Kiser is way over his head against the bigger inside guys...too bad he isn't 3 or 4 inches taller. Even though we need to improve in the rebounding area, I thought we did alright against a very good, aggressive and big front line of WKU. Fazekas is overdue to start hitting 3's more consistently.
I thought Kiser actually played pretty well. He was just playing against guys who were physically more talented than him. I kind of had a laugh when I saw Kiser defending Bassey in the post. One guy was a walk-on and the other is a project Top 10 lottery pick lol.
He made some good screens and played fundamentally sound basketball. But I hear what your saying that he was no match for the competition he was playing against. He was scrapping out there. He'd be much more valuable to this squad if he could become a 80% FT shooter and started hitting open 3s from a respectable clip.
We need to get McMillan going. I think he looks more confident out there which is a positive but we need to him to stop picking up fouls.
Kiser plays the defensive 5 according to the book. I watched him nose up and the pivot to block out a guy 5" taller and he did get a couple RBs despite the handicap. Yes, if we could find a 4-5" taller Kiser, we'd be golden.
Well crap, Indiana State won at home against WKU today.
That's a good thing for the MVC but something of an indictment of where this team is competitively.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 24, 2018, 06:53:12 PM
That's a good thing for the MVC but something of an indictment of where this team is competitively.
I would say
was competitively. The Valpo team that played West Virginia today was much improved in almost every aspect over the one that showed up against Western Kentucky. Let's hope the progress continues.
It's definitely good to hear Indiana state played well but it's slightly disheartening having this Team come up short while teams we're competing against get the big win this program sorely needs. There are encouraging signs but I just want to see this program land some signature wins again.
You could probably argue the last great win our program had was against a ranked Rhode Island in Coach Lottich rookie head coaching season. I don't expect us to be world beaters every year but I hope we can start winning some of these P5 games on neutral courts.
Let's not forget Missouri State beat Western Kentucky....