Just got word from twitter that Javon is transferring. Wow, not gonna lie my heart sank when I read that. What a huge blow. Don't even know what to say...loss for words
Apparently Bakari is leaving too. Wow, don't get me wrong he underperformed BUT WHAT IS GOING ON!!!?? LOTTICH NEEDS THE BOOT! Where is Trump when you need him!? ;)
Wow. Just wow.
Lottich crashed and burned this program in three years.
Not only does he leave, but this destroys your recruiting. Any top prospect will look at this and choose to go elsewhere.
This is devastating. The thing I find interesting is both Smits and Freeman essentially said that they felt they could not reach their full potential with Valpo and wanted to move on. It hurts even more as next year was setting up (at least talent-wise) to be our most successful year in the Valley.
If the fact that arguably our two best players are leaving now, doesn't scream that this coach is not able to take this program to the next level, I don't know what does.
I've given Lottich I feel as much of a chance as anyone, but his time as the Valpo coach needs to come to an end now!
MLB is fully justified in firing Lottich today. These transfers clearly mean next year will not be the year it could/should have been.
At that point Lottich would be fired anyway, so let's rip off the band aid and get it started.
The success of Drake and MOST this year show us how quick a turnaround can happen.
It's time for Mark to pop his fire-for-underperforming cherry.
He was a Dildy recruit. It was up to this staff to retain Freeman after Emmanuel left for Northwestern. I think he was given ample floor time, etc. I guess I go back to his mom's tweet from a few weeks / month ago where she basically put Lottich on blast being a precursor to this announcement. BIG TIME loss for the program but the cupboard isn't bare.
Fire Lottich Immediately. It's one thing to lose the grad transfers but losing Javon shows you what the team thinks of him and his leadership. He has to go for the good of the program.
Those of you who were still thinking that Matt needs another year.... I'm sorry. But, no. I said no before this disaster. And, I especially mean it now. It's time. It's time for a change. Anyone who disagrees - idk what you're talking about. Smits was one thing. Now, you lose your best player? Who's next?
"How to kill a program in two years" By Matt Lottich In stores now! Get your copy today!
I really wish those of us who expressed our concerns could've been proven wrong. But, at this point - it's worse than the doomsday predictors thought possible. Scary thing is ... I think it's only begun. More to come...?
How many players have to leave before ML is fired? One more? Two more?
This dude destroyed our program. Time to run him out on a rail.
All those who believed in the Lottich disaster should be banned from posting for a month. Or at least restricted. Can't believe some of you were buying the garbage he was selling.
Smits and Evelyn you could forgive as they are Grad transfers, Smits looking for greener pastures and Evelyn more of a potential numbers and potential PT thing next year BUT you're key recruit in the short time you've been here lasting only one year? And again, he saw a LOT of floor time so playing time was not the issue. Obviously through his commentary via twitter on his rationale it ran deeper than PT. Therein lies the rub and why I cannot blame anyone for having their doubts about ML. I like the guy from a personality aspect but this is D1 basketball and you know the saying about nice guys.
I feel numb right now. I need to take some time to process this.
Are we going to even have a team next year? What's the minimum roster requirement? John Kiser might have to start at all 5 positions he might be the only one left.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 19, 2019, 04:00:57 PMAll those who believed in the Lottich disaster should be banned from posting for a month.
:-X mmmmmh. :-X awghmnn :-X rrrghmmm
Trust the process. I really like where this program is headed. We need more guys with a team mentality - not a ME mentality.
Honestly, though - you settle for less than mediocrity and this is what you get. This is our investment into the program. Not even the brown unis can make up for this train wreck.
First it was the mascot rumored to change.
Then the ARC renovations ...
And, now ... will we have a team? Open Gyms may take on a whole new meaning lol. Come one. Come all. We've got scholarships to hand out!
I've gone back and read the message board seeking those who thought Matt was the right guy but needed time. Those people have lost all credibility.
Don't be an enabler. Enough damage already.
I'm not going to lie this is a Top 3 worst day in my time of being a Valpo fan. This one really hurts. :(
I thought the day we lost the large inflatable Crusader was a bad day....
Maybe Matt will be the high-character guy we know him to be. Maybe he steps down. He's a smart guy. Degree from Stanford. Made good money overseas more than likely. And made good money (you'd have to figure) while coaching at Valpo.
Step down. Be a man. Own up. It's not your time. Some day, you may very well look back at this and learn so much from it if you step away. Go learn under someone with some experience.
It's ok. He was set-up to do something 99% couldn't up and do as a first year coach. Literally - the guy hadn't ever been a head coach before.
He's what - like maybe 35? So young. Whole life ahead of him. Go back to Stanford. Maybe take the program over some day when Jerod Haase leaves. He's only a 500 win % head coach there.
Most coaches in their low 30's are coaching high school ball. Or maybe NAIA or DII or DIII.
You've already proven to be an exception to the norm. Or go to New Trier and coach. Get a consulting job or something. Make the same amount of money and be with your family.
It's a win-win for everyone involved. Need to hit the restart button.
We lost our best player. Our future. It doesn't matter anymore. Let the other cards fall as they may. And don't hire from within. Run a national search.
I can't say I was a defender of ML, but I know what a coach is supposed to do. Leave the dribbling, the passing, and the shooting to the players. When they fail, as our players did so many times this year, it's on them. But, the coach has a couple of primary responsibilities, things the players can't do, like recruiting, nurturing and developing players, and making sure the players see a direction and future with the program. Obviously, we have a problem. Javon was the future of this team. If he didn't see that future, or thought that his talents wouldn't develop, or that the team was headed nowhere, that's on the coach. As a Valpo fan, I'm sad, especially for Javon's transfer. But, as a basketball fan, I'm excited for him and hope to see him develop into a better, even more exciting player.
If there isn't a coaching change announced by this weekend, nobody should renew their season tickets. It's long past time for Valpo fans to put the pressure on the university to commit and invest in this program, or we will no longer continue to do so.
Then, go out and actually conduct a national coaching search. Despite our current sorry state, there are tons of experienced D1 head coaches and P5 assistants who would still leap at the chance to take over a program in the Valley with a long history of success as a program. No religious litmus tests, no garbage about "institutional fit," go hire the best available *coach*. And then give him the resources to succeed, and that includes announcing a plan for facilities improvements.
Lottich had one job to do once it became clear this season was going nowhere -- keep the talent in the program so we have a fighting chance at being an experienced and deep team next year. He failed at that, too. The most promising freshman we've had since Peters took a look at the program and said "nah." Along with two seniors. That's an across-the-board rejection of his leadership of the program and system.
For what it's worth.... in Javon' s statement he alluded too it was not until the last part of the year when he started to think about transferring.
I said at the start of the conference year I thought 11-7 in the MVC would limit transfers as we needed to see that progress to keep confidence. I think that may have been enough to keep JFL. We were never the same after the home games against Drake and Missouri State. We lost JFL after we failed to recover from that weekend.
Hope nothing but the best for Javon. He played hard and always represented the university well. Can't wait to see what the future brings him and most likely it will be better then VU/Lottich can offer him.
This sucks. Be curious to see how high he goes. Trying to be positive, the only good thing is that JFL and Sackey were too small to play together...guess we wont have to worry about that problem anymore.
Good Lord this is a damning statement
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1108091260110336001
I have a few contrarian thoughts.
Javon clearly has P6 starter ability next year. In that light I don't find his comment that damning of VU and ML He and his family know that even a great run by VU next year would not bring him the daily tests and growth he would get in the big 10 or other P6.
Smits is an enigma who doesn't fit easily into the flow. Maybe playing more bigs gives him a reality check to man up or just hang it up. But he did surprise me by leaving
Bakari had a really frustrating year and may not have been charmed by the message board either. So he and Javon were the ones I would have guessed might leave.
I an not excited about ML either but I am not sure the three are indictments of him. Either way this anger vs ML is over the top. MLB should talk to Lavender a vet who saw it and is freed to speak now.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 19, 2019, 08:16:10 PMI an not excited about ML either but I am not sure the three are indictments of him. Either way this anger vs ML is over the top. MLB should talk to Lavender a vet who saw it and is freed to speak now.
The Lavender family was important for landing Clay as a recruit. I would think that Deion would have positive things to say.
When I read the title to this thread, I honestly thought it was a joke at first. Then I clicked it to realize that it was actually serious and Lottich has turned this into a joke. He needs to go.
"He just wants to win games." Ouch.
"Anytime a player transfers you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what happened."
Since by the grace of our parsimony he's been given another year will he do the reflection necessary to make it count and turn things around? We'll see. For everyone's sake we can only hope.
Northwestern targeting Freeman
https://www.insidenu.com/2019/3/20/18274914/northwestern-targeting-freshman-transfer-javon-freeman-valparaiso-emanuel-dildy-chris-collins
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 20, 2019, 09:34:16 PM
Northwestern targeting Freeman
https://www.insidenu.com/2019/3/20/18274914/northwestern-targeting-freshman-transfer-javon-freeman-valparaiso-emanuel-dildy-chris-collins
"On Monday, Northwestern contacted Javon Freeman..."
Such a load of crap. In all likelihood, Dildy has been lurking in the shadows for some time, and it was he who first put a bug in Freeman's ear about transferring to Northwestern. The timing of both Freeman's and NW's announcement is too close together not to have been carefully orchestrated by NW.
As to Freeman, I liked him a lot as a Crusader, but he isn't a Crusader any more. Yes, he had a very good freshman campaign. At the same time he was given everything any freshman could ask for - starter status, ton of minutes, a ton of opps to showcase and develop his skills, recognition, accolades, honors, etc., yet he left anyway. We're in his rear view mirror. He's now in mine.
Article on tampering in college basketball
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8157631/ncaa-turns-attention-transfers-eye-penalties-tampering
I'm sure all the contact went through his uncle, keeps it all within the rules. All indications are Marcus is a very positive influence in JFLs life, and as a former blue chipper himself, he knows the ins and outs. But in these situations there is always an air of "reliving my glory days through my son/nephew/ grandson, etc."
If he wants to go to a program that wins and makes the tournament, Northwestern is probably a poor choice.
I would hope he plans to transfer somewhere better than northwestern. Northwestern was 13-19, last in the big 10, and it looks like they had their fair share of people jumping ship. Seems like he should be able to do better than that.
Quote from: a3uge on March 21, 2019, 05:58:25 AM
If he wants to go to a program that wins and makes the tournament, Northwestern is probably a poor choice.
Other than Dildy connection, I believe proximity to Chicago was a reason he chose Valpo. So I suspect Northwestern is in the game.
I truly think that a player of his caliber (so used to winning) is a tough guy to keep during a downturn.
For the first time I could be heard (amongst friends) calling for Lottich replacement. But I truly wonder if this is just the new norm within mid-majors.
I'm not saying I like it, but stability is a huge towards success for all mid major programs. I think this new "less consequences" transfer concept is going to pick us clean of home grown talent (Freeman) in favor of P6 transfers with attitude problems (Bakari).
Im concerned but I'll play the wait and see game because I've no other option...
Collins is an up and coming coach, Northwestern has first class academics and facilities. Perhaps this is a great opportunity and a step up for the young man.
An assistant coach who wants to remain relevant in the D-1 world has to build a reputation as an excellent recruiter. If (and I say if) Dildy has managed to lure Freeman to the Big 10's doormat program (4-16 conference record and headed south from there), he isn't looking out for Freeman's best interest, he's looking out for himself. What could be better than hitting 2 home runs in 2 years with the same player?
I make this point for only one reason. IF Freeman does in fact sign with NW, this is just another sleazy recruiting story where a Major program robs a Mid Major piggy bank to fill their recruiting gaps. It wouldn't have mattered if Valpo finished 9th or 3rd in the MVC, or who the coach is.
If Bakari's goal is to get to the dance. Maybe he should have stayed at Nebraska! Oh wait...Well, at least they put an end to Butler's season.
QuoteUnderwood & Co. have reached out to a couple other grad transfers as well, including William & Mary transfer wing Justin Pierce and Lehigh transfer forward Pat Andree. The Illini are expected to have interest in Valparaiso transfer wing Javon Freeman too.
https://247sports.com/college/illinois/Article/Former-Brad-Underwood-recruit-TJ-Holyfield-to-transfer-from-Stephen-F-Austin-130306096/
I think that there is something to say about our ability to hold on to these caliber players.
You think about who Javon was linked to: Bryce and Alec Peters.
Bryce obviously had some pretty strong ties to stay at the team.
Alec was notorious for having a chip on his shoulder about being overlooked and was extremely loyal.
I wonder if, as someone else said, we would have been able to keep Javon even if we did finish where we expected, middle of the pack. He did not seem to have a chip on his shoulder about being over-looked and his uncle is going to encourage him to look at the business side. In the interview it did seem, in Marcus' quote, that he did mention the idea of loyalty to him but it obviously wasn't going to beat out the opportunity to play higher. The reality is Mid-major, even if you do decent, don't often translate into the type of pro careers a player like Javon may have his eye on.
Also, for Bakari, he's been around, he's got one year left, if he'd rather play low minutes for the experience of getting to the tournament I mean, I get it.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 21, 2019, 07:44:28 AM
Collins is an up and coming coach, Northwestern has first class academics and facilities. Perhaps this is a great opportunity and a step up for the young man.
So Collins finishes 14th in the Big 10 (last)for two years in a row after having a winning record three years ago (sound familiar?) Has a record of 48-48 over the last three years, is playing in a brand new arena and has three guys transfer after the end of the year and he is an "up and coming coach" but Matt needs to go?
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 19, 2019, 06:48:19 PMLottich had one job to do once it became clear this season was going nowhere -- keep the talent in the program so we have a fighting chance at being an experienced and deep team next year. He failed at that, too. The most promising freshman we've had since Peters took a look at the program and said "nah." Along with two seniors. That's an across-the-board rejection of his leadership of the program and system.
I believe all 3 who transferred and especially Javon could learn to sincerely regret it. Maybe those three were part of why the unselfish team concept at Valpo was not working and those were the players that needed to leave to get that going within the program. You could see Lottich working that way. I do think Matt needs to take more ownership and learn from this experience. We will see that it was probably a bit of both.
Quote from: bbtds on March 21, 2019, 12:10:24 PMMaybe those three were part of why the unselfish team concept at Valpo was not working and those were the players that needed to leave to get that going within the program.
This is unbelievably petty. You're going to trash players reputations with unfounded rumors because they decide to leave? Come on.
You think the HL would have us back...? That's where we belong. And we wouldn't even be the big dog anymore in the HL. Probably middle of the pack.
Some of the comments being made here often sound like some of the disgruntled bunch of Southern Illinois fans following their season-ending loss in the MVC Tourney. It is not WHAT is being said but HOW it is said. While many of us are very disappointed in what has transpired over recent days, it is interesting to hear their talk about their concern for the long-term health of our program while their specific comments reflect a 180 degree turn from their comments a year or two ago. It amazes me what one transfer(J F) has done to this board and comments regarding Coach L and MLaB. Remember the pre-season polls and comments on this board about our predicted finish for this past season? We finished about where everyone predicted we would be. And that was in spite of all our injuries! From that standpoint, it would appear, at least on paper, that ML did an acceptable job. Boy, it sure didn't take long for that to change, did it. Remember the comments that some were surprised that Javon chose Valpo and congrats were headed in ML's direction for his recruiting prowess? It just hurts when our program gets hit when we lose a good player to transfer. After all we have been the recipients of transfers to our program so why are we so surprised when the shoe is on the other foot? It happens to many schools, from the Power 5's to the MVC. Should we do what North Dakota State does and recruit the unknown , small town players who often go un-touched by larger schools? Isn't it easy to be critical while it is so difficult to remember the positive side of people or situations?
Quote from: valpo64 on March 21, 2019, 02:21:37 PM
Some of the comments being made here often sound like some of the disgruntled bunch of Southern Illinois fans following their season-ending loss in the MVC Tourney. It is not WHAT is being said but HOW it is said. While many of us are very disappointed in what has transpired over recent days, it is interesting to hear their talk about their concern for the long-term health of our program while their specific comments reflect a 180 degree turn from their comments a year or two ago. It amazes me what one transfer(J F) has done to this board and comments regarding Coach L and MLaB. Remember the pre-season polls and comments on this board about our predicted finish for this past season? We finished about where everyone predicted we would be. And that was in spite of all our injuries! From that standpoint, it would appear, at least on paper, that ML did an acceptable job. Boy, it sure didn't take long for that to change, did it. Remember the comments that some were surprised that Javon chose Valpo and congrats were headed in ML's direction for his recruiting prowess? It just hurts when our program gets hit when we lose a good player to transfer. After all we have been the recipients of transfers to our program so why are we so surprised when the shoe is on the other foot? It happens to many schools, from the Power 5's to the MVC. Should we do what North Dakota State does and recruit the unknown , small town players who often go un-touched by larger schools? Isn't it easy to be critical while it is so difficult to remember the positive side of people or situations?
Well said indeed. It is shocking to see transfers because we haven't had a starter transfer in recent memory. Guys like Bakari and possibly Golder, want to find a spot where they are THE guy and given their talent level, they won't find it. This may sound like sour grapes, and it probably is, but Golder hit me as a selfish player, looking for the highlite reel and actually hurt his ankle going for the dunk when he should have passed it. If this makes anybody feel better, we have lost .289, .298 and ,306 shooting from the 3.
64, you are correct, players transfer all the time. However, name a program that had 4 transfer out immediately after the season.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 21, 2019, 02:43:31 PM
64, you are correct, players transfer all the time. However, name a program that had 4 transfer out immediately after the season.
UMKC lost eight yesterday.
Let's be honest. Smits, Golder and Evelyn all had shortcomings that plagued them the entire time they were at Valpo, including wild inconsistency, serious flaws, and attitude issues. We were never going to win consistently so long as they continued to have serious roles here. That's the way I see it.
While I agree that it's not fair to portray these 3 as problem children, it's equally not fair to portray Matt Lottich as a coaching buffoon just because they all decided to leave. No one on this board has the slightest clue what the story behind the story is. And no, it's not as simple as blaming the leader for not using the right motivational techniques to mold a group of individuals into a cohesive group. Group motivation is a shared responsibility that begins with a willingness by everyone involved to surrender their individual rights, humble themselves, and be open to constructive criticism. A breakdown can occur anywhere along the chain at any time.
Bradley loses. Golder transfers. Valpo's cheap administration won't do anything about anything. Now all we need is for Murray State Belmont and NKU to keep winning. I hate everything right now...
UMKC lost 8? I didn't know they still had a team after leaving the Mid-con.
How is that program? We don't want to be like that.
We're heading that way. And apparently many on campus wouldn't care if we made it to that point. Luckily our conference affiliation will make certain that we never quite fall THAT far but still... The ship is sinking fast.
I wouldn't say the ship is sinking but there sure are some who are jumping overboard anyway.
Well what on Earth do you call four of our top five scorers LEAVUNG Not graduating LEAVING including a FRESHMAN if not a sinking ship?
Quote from: mj on March 21, 2019, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 21, 2019, 12:10:24 PMMaybe those three were part of why the unselfish team concept at Valpo was not working and those were the players that needed to leave to get that going within the program.
This is unbelievably petty. You're going to trash players reputations with unfounded rumors because they decide to leave? Come on.
Why are three players who couldn't find cohesiveness with their other very talented teammates be better judges of what's wrong with the team than a Stanford grad who had to deal with multiple injuries, individual players who didn't seem to trust their teammates in the way Loyola did in their Final 4 run, and has witnessed much more winning basketball, who himself can still shoot better than all the members of the team except maybe Fazekas. I've never said I was sure of this just that it is a possibility. I could be totally wrong but the nature of the players has led me to believe this. As far as Javon I think he may have judged too quickly. I think it's awful that we lost Freeman and he MIGHT regret his decision. Not for sure. I think Javon should have given it more time. Maybe Lottich will get terminated after next season and then the process begins from there. Maybe he should be fired now but I'm not inclined to make that call now. I want to see if the transfers, except for Javon's transfer, help the team become more cohesive.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 21, 2019, 05:05:35 PM
Well what on Earth do you call four of our top five scorers LEAVING Not graduating LEAVING including a FRESHMAN if not a sinking ship?
Could be a nice house cleaning of the team. But I think you are judging too early. I hate to see anyone transferring but that doesn't mean it always hurts if other players that find a cohesiveness with each other are found.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 21, 2019, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 21, 2019, 02:43:31 PM
64, you are correct, players transfer all the time. However, name a program that had 4 transfer out immediately after the season.
UMKC lost eight yesterday.
UMKC Transfers - Season Avg-Points
Rob Whitfield 11pts
Will Mangum Not shown as playing any games
Brandon Suggs 2.6pts
Kenny Strawbridge Not shown as playing any games
Marco Smith Not shown as playing any games
Jamel Allen 7pts
Steve Dulley 2pts, 5 games played
Jordan Giles 8.4pts
Team Avg Pts Total 69.4
Transfers' % of Total 44.6%
Valpo Transfers - Season Avg. - PointsSmits 12.2pts
Freeman 11pts.
Evelyn 8.4pts
Golder 9.2pts
Team Avg Pts Total 66.8
Transfers' % of Total 61.1%
Edit:
UMKC will fire men's basketball coach Kareem RIchardson
https://www.kshb.com/sports/umkc-will-fire-mens-basketball-coach-kareem-richardson
Quote from: mj on March 21, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: wh on March 21, 2019, 04:04:58 PMand attitude issues.
Citation please
It's called believing my lying eyes after watching every second of 30 home games in person over the past 2 seasons, including timeouts, warmups, looks, glares and headshakes when taken out of the game, openly motioning to another player they were trying to pass to that resulted in a TO so everyone will think it's the other player's fault, coasting on defense, constantly bitching at the refs on nearly every foul called on themselves which continued unceasingly even after Matt said he was going to put a stop to it, Derrik constantly bending the refs ear on the way off the court during TO's, not rushing over to help pickup a fellow player who takes a charge Derrik, not joining in when the team huddles up on the court when the action is stopped for foul shots, not diving for loose balls, on and on. These all apply to Smits and Evelyn, not so much Golder until later in this year's conf. season when he clearly just quit on the team. This nonsense went on repeatedly. There's no way you could miss it if you're there live and paying close attention.
But would it really matter under this coach?
Quote from: wh on February 11, 2019, 12:05:22 AM
I'm all about effort. Guys played their hearts out today (and other games recently). That tells me that they have bought into the system, are highly competitive, and are deeply committed to improving. The wins will follow in due time. I really believe that.
It's funny. You didn't seem to mention all of these supposed issues with the team back in February.
The timing of these types of criticism stinks to high heaven. When they wear the brown and gold everything is ok. But suddenly, when they leave, they've always had attitude problems?
Is this the "Valpo way" now?
Quote from: mj on March 21, 2019, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: wh on February 11, 2019, 12:05:22 AM
I'm all about effort. Guys played their hearts out today (and other games recently). That tells me that they have bought into the system, are highly competitive, and are deeply committed to improving. The wins will follow in due time. I really believe that.
It's funny. You didn't seem to mention all of these supposed issues with the team back in February.
The timing of these types of criticism stinks to high heaven. When they wear the brown and gold everything is ok. But suddenly, when they leave, they've always had attitude problems?
Is this the "Valpo way" now?
Come on! Very unfair! wh was making a comment about one game and you're using it to quote him about the whole season. Really?!
Quote from: mj on March 21, 2019, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: wh on February 11, 2019, 12:05:22 AM
I'm all about effort. Guys played their hearts out today (and other games recently). That tells me that they have bought into the system, are highly competitive, and are deeply committed to improving. The wins will follow in due time. I really believe that.
It's funny. You didn't seem to mention all of these supposed issues with the team back in February.
The timing of these types of criticism stinks to high heaven. When they wear the brown and gold everything is ok. But suddenly, when they leave, they've always had attitude problems?
Is this the "Valpo way" now?
I don't know about the Valpo Way, but apparently "your way" is to cherry pick one of hundreds of comments I made during the season to paint a false narrative because you disagree with my position. Intellectually lazy. You can do better.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 21, 2019, 02:21:37 PMAfter all we have been the recipients of transfers to our program so why are we so surprised when the shoe is on the other foot?
I was about to post something along the same lines.
It's not THAT there are transfers it's WHO is transferring. This is not normal. This is not a good look. Four of our top five scorers just peaced out. That doesn't happen to steady successful programs. If the three grad transfers believed in this coach this team and its future they would have stayed. If Freeman believed in Lottich he would have stayed. The team doesn't believe in Lottich why should we?
Freeman going to Northwestern would not be a bad decision for him in the long run. Their basketball program, despite at the bottom of the cellar, is in better shape than Valpo, and academics at NU are truly outstanding.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 21, 2019, 09:30:44 PM
It's not THAT there are transfers it's WHO is transferring. This is not normal. This is not a good look. Four of our top five scorers just peaced out. That doesn't happen to steady successful programs. If the three grad transfers believed in this coach this team and its future they would have stayed. If Freeman believed in Lottich he would have stayed. The team doesn't believe in Lottich why should we?
First, the team doesn't believe in him, or 3 disgruntled players don't? I'm not including Freeman because his leaving may very well have nothing to do with Matt. Secondly, all we've heard are some innuendos from the disgruntleds. I would guess that Matt would have a much different story to tell, wouldn't you agree?
Maybe... I'd love to hear him try to spin this positively in a way that doesn't further enrage the fanbase...
These transfers can hang their hat on the fact that they were a big reason that this was the second worst Valpo team in the last 25 years. Good luck to them, but the lack of success is their fault.
It's always telling to see where the players end up. I think Javon is likely to go higher, but a team is going to have to be willing to have him sit one to play 2, maybe 3, which could limit him.
Derrick may have some interest, hes tall and almost all reward little risk since he'll be one and done. I think he'll go to the biggest team possible but play very little.
I think evelyn will find a program that will give him comparable minutes as Valpo, if he can prove to be healthy.
Golder is interesting. I always thought he could be a baller. I think he will go somewhere with similar opportunities as to Valpo and tear it up. Hes *exploring* grad transfer...is he for sure gone?
But in the end, Valpo is in their rear view mirror so they should be in ours. One, maybe 2, is hurtful but I'm hoping ML can add 1, or 2, helpful pieces for next year. Time for him to get it done.
First, Javon could care less about academics at Northwestern. He intends to go pro, period. I really will be surprised if he ends up being a starter at a high major with a quality team (that would not include Northwestern (14th in the Big 10).
Second, we didn't lose Alec Peters or Bryce Drew, we lost Javon Freeman. I just looked back at the record (scary sometimes) and found that playing against just D1 opponents, Javon averaged 10.5 ppg and shot 27% from the 3. That is not high major stuff folks.
I really think us fans got caught up with some highlight plays and thought we had a stud. Maybe a stud in a few years but he was a bright spot on a bad team that couldn't shoot straight ex-Ryan Fazekas. With any luck in the transfer lottery we could be a much better team next year. Even with just guys who need to sit a year we won't be worse particularly if Micah stays or we pickup a grad transfer like Deion. Just my :twocents:
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2019, 09:33:15 AM
First, Javon could care less about academics at Northwestern. He intends to go pro, period. I really will be surprised if he ends up being a starter at a high major with a quality team (that would not include Northwestern (14th in the Big 10).
Second, we didn't lose Alec Peters or Bryce Drew, we lost Javon Freeman. I just looked back at the record (scary sometimes) and found that playing against just D1 opponents, Javon averaged 10.5 ppg and shot 27% from the 3. That is not high major stuff folks.
I really think us fans got caught up with some highlight plays and thought we had a stud. Maybe a stud in a few years but he was a bright spot on a bad team that couldn't shoot straight ex-Ryan Fazekas. With any luck in the transfer lottery we could be a much better team next year. Even with just guys who need to sit a year we won't be worse particularly if Micah stays or we pickup a grad transfer like Deion. Just my :twocents:
Couldn't disagree with you more. Javon is a stud. Valpo blew it.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on March 22, 2019, 07:23:11 AM
Golder is interesting. I always thought he could be a baller. I think he will go somewhere with similar opportunities as to Valpo and tear it up. Hes *exploring* grad transfer...is he for sure gone?
This is definitely a baller move on his part. It encouraged me to tell my wife I was *exploring* divorce if I could find someone I liked better, but I'll have no further comment until I've checked out all my options.
Now this is a story worth following :lol:
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 22, 2019, 09:37:33 AMCouldn't disagree with you more. Javon is a stud. Valpo blew it.
Perhaps. Just how could we have done something different? Given him more playing time? Nope, led the team in minutes played. Given him a starting position? Nope. Started every game in a Valpo uniform. Ha da air-conditioned practice facility? Nope, have one. Had padded chairbacks for his uncle? I doubt it. Gotten to the NCAAs? Maybe, but then his "star" would have blinded all of us and for sure he would have left.
Either way the best part of this program's future as things stand right now just walked out the door and all we get for being upset that the coach has clearly lost the team and calls for substantive action to address clear issues with the program is accusations that we're trying to sabotage the program. We're not the one who took a shot at JFL on the way out the door. How does that look to recruits: be blindly loyal or we'll take pot shots at you when you leave. So many of you forget that I was actually a SUPPORTER of Lottich until last month. What changed my mind? Facts and evidence. As for our financial/commitment/facility issues it's easy to ignore or overlook them and not let them bother you when you're winning in spite of that but when you're not it just magnifies everything that much more. Winning and culture was all we could sell to recruits We're losing and players are leaving so we don't have a lot to sell them on If you don't think potential recruits notice what's going on here and what a bad look it is for us you're kidding yourself. Sorry I was raised in an era and on a culture of excellence in Valpo athletics and expect--demand--nothing less. Sorry I have expectations. Sorry I'm not an old guard graduate from back when athletics were a punchline and our teams were punching bags. Sorry I'm not willing to see the team go down that path again and smile and be content about it like some of you seem to be.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 22, 2019, 10:38:15 AMSorry I'm not willing to see the team go down that path again and smile and be content about it like some of you seem to be.
If you really think we are in any way content with Valpo having a record like we did in Homer's early years you are really not paying attention. I don't know if Matt Lottich is a winning coach and he very well could be gone after next season. I believe we all won't be satisfied until Valpo gets to the Big Dance on a regular basis of once in about every 4 to 6 years.
I think Matt deserves a chance to get new players that will buy into his system. These players that are transferring obviously did not buy in and there were key injuries. Boot him after next year if it still doesn't work to make a big improvement on the record. 4 to 6 games better. 18 to 20 wins. 5th place or better in the Valley and 2 wins or better in Arch Madness.
So, these guys all committed to Valpo, played basketball and took some classes and then jetted when the institution didn't suit their immediate needs anymore. Did they spend any time developing relationships at Valpo? How much of the team's poor culture was due to the departing players and how much was due to the coach? I have no idea but usually in separations like this the fault you fail to assess is your own. I will be curious to see how it works out for the transfers. I hope they are successful (since they are young men with their professional lives ahead of them) but typically when you start chasing success, you end up with something less. Maybe if these guys weren't fully bought in to the University, they are right to leave and open up spots for guys who want to take advantage of a Christian education while representing the institution on the basketball court.
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2019, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 22, 2019, 09:37:33 AMCouldn't disagree with you more. Javon is a stud. Valpo blew it.
Perhaps. Just how could we have done something different? Given him more playing time? Nope, led the team in minutes played. Given him a starting position? Nope. Started every game in a Valpo uniform. Ha da air-conditioned practice facility? Nope, have one. Had padded chairbacks for his uncle? I doubt it. Gotten to the NCAAs? Maybe, but then his "star" would have blinded all of us and for sure he would have left.
Give him a good coach in whom he has confidence to help him develop and become the best player possible.
As Javon said:
Quote"I just wanted to reach my full potential and give myself an opportunity to better myself,"
He obviously did not think Valpo was the place or Lottich was the coach to give him that opportunity.
And when asked about Lottich's response, he said:
QuoteI told Coach (Matt) Lottich a couple days ago and he was shocked. It's a chance for me to better myself."
Lottich didn't have a clue Freeman felt this way. Why not? Case closed.
Lets wait for the smoke to clear before passing final judgement. Lets face it, both D S and B E had attitude problems as was evidenced many times over this past season. Any surprise those 2 left? I don't think so. While the Freeman thing may have come as a surprise, please do not compare his attitude/commitment/coachability/dedication to VU and the program/ and focus to better one's self with those same traits in Bryce and Alec. While both Javon and Alec had pro careers in mind when they first set their feet on campus, their approaches were very different togofor their goals. Don't forget that when AP explored the pro draft, he was told to stay at Valpo and not to transfer. Lets face it, we were spoiled watching B and A lead and carry our program for the years they were at VU. They don't get any better than Bryce and Alec. That comment is not a criticism of Javon but it is made to show the differences in these student athletes. So let's move on...we lost one very good player in Javon and 2 others who may or may not have had some negative effect on the "team" concept. Hopefully next season the holes will be filled with quality young men who are good athletes and those who will become eligible next season will also be quality additions to the squad and make significant contributions to our success in 2019-20.
Short answer is nobody has any idea why these guys transferred. It could be all for the same reason or it could be for individual reasons which have nothing to do with each other.
Transferring has become a "thing". It's like high schoolers putting on the hat on signing day. It makes them feel better about themselves while others may have a different opinion about how it looks after the 500th time we see it. Kids transfer because of sometimes minor issues. Kids transfer because other kids are transferring and they don't want to miss out even if they aren't transferring to the same school.
So I wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions about what the why's on what is happening.
UMKC Athletics 3-17-2019
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – The University of Missouri-Kansas City has decided to part ways with men's basketball head coach Kareem Richardson.
Director of Athletics Brandon E. Martin, Ph.D., made the announcement Sunday.
"We have decided to move in a different direction with our men's basketball program consistent with our overall goal of comprehensive excellence," Martin said. "I am thankful for Coach Richardson's service to the UMKC men's basketball program for the past six seasons."
Richardson was hired in March 2013 after serving as an assistant coach on Louisville's national championship team that year. He had previously worked as an assistant coach at Drake, Evansville, Indiana State and Xavier, as well as a previous stint as an assistant at UMKC. He compiled an overall won-lost record of 75-118 as UMKC's head coach.
"We will be expeditious but thorough in our search for the next leader of our men's basketball program," Martin said.
and since that release...UMKC Departures...
3/20/2019 - JUCO SG Rob Whitfield (6-3, 175, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2018 PF Will Mangum (6-7, 195, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2016 SF Brandon Suggs (6-8, 220, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2018 SG Kenny Strawbridge (6-4, 190, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2017 PG Marco Smith (6-2, 165, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - JUCO PF Jamel Allen (6-7, 210, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2017 PG Steve Dulley (6-3, 200, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2016 SF Jordan Giles (6-7, 225, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/19/2019 - 2016 PG Xavier Bishop (5-8, 150, 2★) will be transferring.
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3404.msg113730#msg113730
Two completely different circumstances. Not even close to being comparable.
Comparing our program to UMKC isn't the best defense.
Quote from: JD24 on March 22, 2019, 03:31:57 PMShort answer is nobody has any idea why these guys transferred. It could be all for the same reason or it could be for individual reasons which have nothing to do with each other.
I think your later case is highly unlikely. Most kids still have enough group respect, institutional respect and coaching respect that you can mold them towards common goals. Individual thinking that undermines long standing relationships is never an easy decision to make. There is a great chance that a hushed debate has been ongoing for weeks or longer.
Can individual, me-first thinking also be selfish? Absolutely and I don't mind pointing out the obvious.
Quote from: talksalot on March 22, 2019, 03:36:08 PM
UMKC Athletics 3-17-2019
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – The University of Missouri-Kansas City has decided to part ways with men's basketball head coach Kareem Richardson.
Director of Athletics Brandon E. Martin, Ph.D., made the announcement Sunday.
"We have decided to move in a different direction with our men's basketball program consistent with our overall goal of comprehensive excellence," Martin said. "I am thankful for Coach Richardson's service to the UMKC men's basketball program for the past six seasons."
Richardson was hired in March 2013 after serving as an assistant coach on Louisville's national championship team that year. He had previously worked as an assistant coach at Drake, Evansville, Indiana State and Xavier, as well as a previous stint as an assistant at UMKC. He compiled an overall won-lost record of 75-118 as UMKC's head coach.
"We will be expeditious but thorough in our search for the next leader of our men's basketball program," Martin said.
and since that release...UMKC Departures...
3/20/2019 - JUCO SG Rob Whitfield (6-3, 175, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2018 PF Will Mangum (6-7, 195, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2016 SF Brandon Suggs (6-8, 220, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2018 SG Kenny Strawbridge (6-4, 190, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2017 PG Marco Smith (6-2, 165, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - JUCO PF Jamel Allen (6-7, 210, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2017 PG Steve Dulley (6-3, 200, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/20/2019 - 2016 SF Jordan Giles (6-7, 225, 2★) will be transferring. - Per Jeff Goodman, Stadium
3/19/2019 - 2016 PG Xavier Bishop (5-8, 150, 2★) will be transferring.
UMKC is like a store manager who makes a bunch of hiring mistakes. The store performs badly, the manager gets fired, and for whatever reason the slugs he hired decide to take their services elsewhere.
UNCW is up to 5 transfers at this point as well I just saw.
Why are we comparing our situation in which all these players are leaving BEFORE OR WITHOUT the coach being fired
Vs
Their situation where the coach WAS FIRED and THEN the players transferred????????
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 22, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Why are we comparing our situation in which all these players are leaving BEFORE OR WITHOUT the coach being fired
Vs
Their situation where the coach WAS FIRED and THEN the players transferred????????
This is an outstanding point if UMKC transfer-gate was from a firing. My concern lies with why Golder and Freeman left despite no coach turnover.
Lottich has two whopping black eyes if this number stays at 4 or grows. Drake and Evansville recruited (reloaded) with recruits who bought into a new HC vision, they didn't have to defend 1/3 of their team transferring out from their established tenure. This is a minor concern of mine as it pertains to attracting immediate talent for the next two years only.
As long as the media cycle has time to pack google news on Valpo MBB with other positive stories in that time, most prospective recruits won't click on page 17 of Valpo MBB news.
Quote from: justducky on March 22, 2019, 06:33:13 PMQuote from: JD24 on March 22, 2019, 03:31:57 PMShort answer is nobody has any idea why these guys transferred. It could be all for the same reason or it could be for individual reasons which have nothing to do with each other.
I think your later case is highly unlikely. Most kids still have enough group respect, institutional respect and coaching respect that you can mold them towards common goals. Individual thinking that undermines long standing relationships is never an easy decision to make. There is a great chance that a hushed debate has been ongoing for weeks or longer. Can individual, me-first thinking also be selfish? Absolutely and I don't mind pointing out the obvious.
It's not at all far fetched, to me at least, that Smits is leaving because he feels he can get more exposure at a bigger program on what he feels is a path to the NBA, Freeman leaving because he doesn't feel the program is providing him the proper path to his NBA career and I suspect he has an overinflated opinion of his abilities. Bakari is leaving because of the coach and Golder is leaving because Bakari is leaving and if he's tranferrin' I'm transferrin'.
This is going to read like sour grapes, but here it goes. Javon was a fine player. I don't think he was a program changer as some on here think. I just looked at Tevonn's freshman year and found similar results.
Javon: Minutes played 31.2 FG %: 45.2 3 pt %: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 4.3 Scoring: 11.0 66 assts, 53 tos and 60 steals
Tevonn: Minutes played 27.1 FG%: 44.4 3 pt %: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 3.4 Scoring: 10.3 60 assts, 56 tos and 26 steals.
Very similar. The difference? Tevonn played on a team loaded with good players. Javon was relied on to make thing happen so he had the ball in his hands much more. Will we miss him? Certainly. Can he be replaced? Yes.
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 08:36:17 AM
This is going to read like sour grapes, but here it goes. Javon was a fine player. I don't think he was a program changer as some on here think. I just looked at Tevonn's freshman year and found similar results.
Javon: Minutes played 31.2 FG %: 45.2 3 pt %: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 4.3 Scoring: 11.0 66 assts, 53 tos and 60 steals
Tevonn: Minutes played 27.1 FG%: 44.4 3 pt %: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 3.4 Scoring: 10.3 60 assts, 56 tos and 26 steals.
Very similar. The difference? Tevonn played on a team loaded with good players. Javon was relied on to make thing happen so he had the ball in his hands much more. Will we miss him? Certainly. Can he be replaced? Yes.
Javon's defense is outstanding, but I don't think he has the ability to take over a game on offense in the half court. Valpo was bad in conference because nobody on the team could shoot. Javon was part of this problem. His defense and transition offense will be missed, but like I've said all year, he was never going to be a program altering player.
Will the coaching staff be able to replace him with a similar caliber recruit with the empty scholarships? That's the big question.
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 08:36:17 AM
This is going to read like sour grapes, but here it goes. Javon was a fine player. I don't think he was a program changer as some on here think. I just looked at Tevonn's freshman year and found similar results.
Javon: Minutes played 31.2 FG %: 45.2 3 pt %: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 4.3 Scoring: 11.0 66 assts, 53 tos and 60 steals
Tevonn: Minutes played 27.1 FG%: 44.4 3 pt %: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 3.4 Scoring: 10.3 60 assts, 56 tos and 26 steals.
Very similar. The difference? Tevonn played on a team loaded with good players. Javon was relied on to make thing happen so he had the ball in his hands much more. Will we miss him? Certainly. Can he be replaced? Yes.
Keep comparing Tevonn to Javon. Get back to us in about six years. Compare their career paths. I suspect that it is Tevonn who "has an overinflated (sic) opinion of his abilities."
Quote from: JD24 on March 23, 2019, 08:02:58 AMif he's tranferrin' I'm transferrin'.
This doesn't come across well.
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2019, 09:02:55 AMWill the coaching staff be able to replace him with a similar caliber recruit with the empty scholarships? That's the big question.
Let's hope that Donovan Clay keeps his verbal. My guess is he will make us all (except Just Sayin ;)) forget Javon. The kid is a great defender, can shoot it, play several spots and is 4 or 5 inches taller. Just sayin...
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2019, 09:02:55 AMWill the coaching staff be able to replace him with a similar caliber recruit with the empty scholarships? That's the big question.
Let's hope that Donovan Clay keeps his verbal. My guess is he will make us all (except Just Sayin ;)) forget Javon. The kid is a great defender, can shoot it, play several spots and is 4 or 5 inches taller. Just sayin...
This doesn't come across well ;)
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2019, 09:02:55 AMWill the coaching staff be able to replace him with a similar caliber recruit with the empty scholarships? That's the big question.
Let's hope that Donovan Clay keeps his verbal. My guess is he will make us all (except Just Sayin ;)) forget Javon. The kid is a great defender, can shoot it, play several spots and is 4 or 5 inches taller. Just sayin...
Hopefully Lottich is watching the tournament and starts prioritizing offense. Belmont, Wofford, and Murray State are top 10 in fg% and all shoot the 3 really well. Buffalo is also a top 5 offense.
It's really difficult to win tournament games without shooting well. It also makes for a more exciting product. The team last year was incredibly boring.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 23, 2019, 09:18:29 AMQuote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 08:36:17 AMThis is going to read like sour grapes, but here it goes. Javon was a fine player. I don't think he was a program changer as some on here think. I just looked at Tevonn's freshman year and found similar results. Javon: Minutes played 31.2 FG %: 45.2 3 pt %: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 4.3 Scoring: 11.0 66 assts, 53 tos and 60 steals Tevonn: Minutes played 27.1 FG%: 44.4 3 pt %: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 3.4 Scoring: 10.3 60 assts, 56 tos and 26 steals. Very similar. The difference? Tevonn played on a team loaded with good players. Javon was relied on to make thing happen so he had the ball in his hands much more. Will we miss him? Certainly. Can he be replaced? Yes.
Keep comparing Tevonn to Javon. Get back to us in about six years. Compare their career paths. I suspect that it is Tevonn who "has an overinflated (sic) opinion of his abilities."
Come on man. Give credit where it is due. VU72 laid out his opinion with statistics. I fired off the quote you used.
Freeman's a good player. Long way to go offensively. Above average defensively. He'll have to improve his shot in a major way to be what he and you believe he is.
Think about what you wrote, how you wrote it, and regarding who you wrote it about. As I said before, it doesn't come across well.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 23, 2019, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 08:36:17 AM
This is going to read like sour grapes, but here it goes. Javon was a fine player. I don't think he was a program changer as some on here think. I just looked at Tevonn's freshman year and found similar results.
Javon: Minutes played 31.2 FG %: 45.2 3 pt %: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 4.3 Scoring: 11.0 66 assts, 53 tos and 60 steals
Tevonn: Minutes played 27.1 FG%: 44.4 3 pt %: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 3.4 Scoring: 10.3 60 assts, 56 tos and 26 steals.
Very similar. The difference? Tevonn played on a team loaded with good players. Javon was relied on to make thing happen so he had the ball in his hands much more. Will we miss him? Certainly. Can he be replaced? Yes.
Keep comparing Tevonn to Javon. Get back to us in about six years. Compare their career paths. I suspect that it is Tevonn who "has an overinflated (sic) opinion of his abilities."
Really?? You are going to say that about Tevonn Walker?? When did Tevonn Walker EVER talk about himself, blow his own horn, complain to a ref or do anything other than work his ass off. VU72 is making the comparison not Tevonn. Tevonn could easily be placed in the top 25 players to ever play at VU. VU72 is correct when comparing the two from a statistical perspective, which looks even better for Tevonn when extrapolated out to 40 minutes.
Tevonn: FG%: 44.4 3 pt%: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 5.0 Scoring: 15.5 2.5 AST 2.3 TO and 1.6 STL
Javon: FG%: 45.2 3 pt%: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 5.5 Scoring: 14.1 2.6 AST 2.1 TO and 2.3 STL
I would go to war with both of these players. Javon better at getting the steal because of his length and the way he played the passing lanes, but Tevonn was a better on ball defender IMO. We definitely will miss Javon and I wish that he would have stayed. It would have been a pleasure to have watched him play.
Quote from: FWalum on March 23, 2019, 01:58:47 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 23, 2019, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 08:36:17 AM
This is going to read like sour grapes, but here it goes. Javon was a fine player. I don't think he was a program changer as some on here think. I just looked at Tevonn's freshman year and found similar results.
Javon: Minutes played 31.2 FG %: 45.2 3 pt %: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 4.3 Scoring: 11.0 66 assts, 53 tos and 60 steals
Tevonn: Minutes played 27.1 FG%: 44.4 3 pt %: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 3.4 Scoring: 10.3 60 assts, 56 tos and 26 steals.
Very similar. The difference? Tevonn played on a team loaded with good players. Javon was relied on to make thing happen so he had the ball in his hands much more. Will we miss him? Certainly. Can he be replaced? Yes.
Keep comparing Tevonn to Javon. Get back to us in about six years. Compare their career paths. I suspect that it is Tevonn who "has an overinflated (sic) opinion of his abilities."
Really?? You are going to say that about Tevonn Walker?? When did Tevonn Walker EVER talk about himself, blow his own horn, complain to a ref or do anything other than work his ass off. VU72 is making the comparison not Tevonn. Tevonn could easily be placed in the top 25 players to ever play at VU. VU72 is correct when comparing the two from a statistical perspective, which looks even better for Tevonn when extrapolated out to 40 minutes.
Tevonn: FG%: 44.4 3 pt%: 34.2 FT%: 71.8 Rebounds: 5.0 Scoring: 15.5 2.5 AST 2.3 TO and 1.6 STL
Javon: FG%: 45.2 3 pt%: 28.9 FT%: 69.3 Rebounds: 5.5 Scoring: 14.1 2.6 AST 2.1 TO and 2.3 STL
I would go to war with both of these players. Javon better at getting the steal because of his length and the way he played the passing lanes, but Tevonn was a better on ball defender IMO. We definitely will miss Javon and I wish that he would have stayed. It would have been a pleasure to have watched him play.
Tevonn thought he was ready for the NBA. Really? lol
We will see how Javon will do in the next few years. Comparing only one freshman season of statistics is hardly a representative basis on which to make the argument you are attempting to make about Tevon being the better player. We simply haven't seen enough of Javon. I think from what I've seen in Javon that this young diamond in the rough is going to be and would have been if he had stayed at Valpo, a dominant force in college hoops, something Tevonn never lived up to. But we must wait to find out. Time will tell.
Right now neither of us have enough facts and evidence to know who is better. So we are left with opinion and speculation. Which I am happy to do.
Quote from: mj on March 23, 2019, 11:47:23 AMThink about what you wrote, how you wrote it, and regarding who you wrote it about. As I said before, it doesn't come across well.
I guess you'll either have to spell it out or we'll just move on.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 23, 2019, 02:14:49 PMTevonn thought he was ready for the NBA. Really? lol
We will see how Javon will do in the next few years. Comparing only one freshman season of statistics is hardly a representative basis on which to make the argument you are attempting to make about Tevon being the better player. We simply haven't seen enough of Javon. I think from what I've seen in Javon that this young diamond in the rough is going to be and would have been if he had stayed at Valpo, a dominant force in college hoops, something Tevonn never lived up to. But we must wait to find out. Time will tell.
Right now neither of us have enough facts and evidence to know who is better. So we are left with opinion and speculation. Which I am happy to do.
Once again you either read things into what is being said or you have a thought stuck in your head and you don't really evaluate the post. NO ONE IS SAYING that Javon might not be a better player than Tevonn. Who said anything about the NBA?? Tevonn did declare for the draft LIKE JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER half way decent player out there... but NO ONE said that he was going to the NBA. Tevonn never walked around saying he was going to be drafted yet your language makes it sound like he was an arrogant player touting his abilities. Tevonn Walker was a hell of a player for VU and the fact that he is starting and averaging double figures while still probably drawing a tough defensive assignment in the German ProA league is proof of his abilities.
Javon in Evanston today.
So the question is always: Do you commit to a school or to a coach? In this case JF committed to an assistant. Twice. I'm all for players rights but this doesn't feel much different than the Skara situation.
Gotta wonder.
Quote2019 LEFTY DRIESELL DEFENSIVE ALL-AMERICA TEAM
Barry Brown Jr. 6-3 Sr. Kansas State
Shaq Buchanan 6-3 Sr. Murray State
Desure Buie 6-0 Sr. Hofstra
Brandon Clarke 6-9 Jr. Gonzaga
Mamadi Diakite 6-9 Jr. Virginia
Tacko Fall 7-6 Sr. UCF
Bruno Fernando 6-10 So. Maryland
Javon Freeman 6-3 Fr. Valparaiso
Daniel Gafford 6-11 So. Arkansas
Jonathan Galloway 6-10 Sr. UC Irvine
JaKeenan Gant 6-8 Sr. Louisiana
Ashton Hagans 6-6 Fr. Kentucky
De'Andre Hunter 6-8 So. Virginia
Tre Jones 6-3 Fr. Duke
Javon Levi 5-10 So. UT Rio Grande Valley
Tariq Owens 6-10 Sr. Texas Tech
Osun Osunniyi 6-10 Fr. St. Bonaventure
Laquincy Rideau 6-1 Jr. USF
Galen Robinson Jr. 6-1 Sr. Houston
Chris Silva 6-9 Sr. South Carolina
Justin Simon 6-5 Jr. St. John's
Zavier Simpson 6-0 Jr. Michigan
Matisse Thybulle 6-5 Sr. Washington
Kenny Williams 6-4 Sr. North Carolina
Zion Williamson 6-7 Fr. Duke
https://kadn.com/gant-named-to-lefty-driesell-defensive-all-america-team/
Man, Javon, that was really funny but oklahoma really wanted to fire Matt. I was truly sweating it out.
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*hZ_U3FBOiQGdTQfZsigxJg.gif)
https://giphy.com/gifs/touch-kiefer-sutherland-maria-bello-aWiTXJAGEnIGs
https://giphy.com/gifs/tvland-mom-wine-best-26FPst2UjefrkhcvS
See, Skara, you can make decisions for yourself!
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Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 19, 2019, 03:50:40 PM
I really wish those of us who expressed our concerns could've been proven wrong. But, at this point - it's worse than the doomsday predictors thought possible. Scary thing is ... I think it's only begun. More to come...?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/AckmGL4e1i7M4/giphy.gif)
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 19, 2019, 06:06:08 PMMaybe Matt will be the high-character guy we know him to be. Maybe he steps down. He's a smart guy. Degree from Stanford. Made good money overseas more than likely. And made good money (you'd have to figure) while coaching at Valpo.
My God! Could you imagine if Matt had actually resigned.
Whew!!!!
Im glad Javon decided to stay but still question whether Lottich should be our guy. Regardless we will see how he does next year and I hope he does very well
Quote from: bbtds on March 21, 2019, 12:10:24 PMI believe all 3 who transferred and especially Javon could learn to sincerely regret it.
I will honestly say I didn't think he would regret it before he actually went through with the transfer.
And the Javon Freeman spot at Northwestern goes to Chase Audige. How good is it to see that name instead of Javon's in the following?
[tweet]1126641428292079616[/tweet]
Story on Iowa website about Evelyn making a visit to Iowa City.
https://amp.hawkcentral.com/amp/1274080001
Valparaiso guard Bakari Evelyn will take an official visit to Iowa from June 7-9, he confirmed to the Register on Wednesday. Iowa assistant coach Sherman Dillard offered him a scholarship during a phone call a couple weeks ago, before the dead period started May 16.
Evelyn said he could "possibly" visit Rhode Island, in part depending on how his Iowa visit goes. He holds offers from Iowa, Rhode Island, NMSU and Portland State.
What are the Hawkeyes thinking?
I have no problem with Javon Freeman exploring the possibilities and coming back to roost. it would be interesting to understand his specific reasoning to come back as I think Valpo can get some lessons learned on what they could do to improve.
College basketball is going through significant changes recently and Valpo needs to keep up.
Quote from: bbtds on May 30, 2019, 01:04:17 AMStory on Iowa website about Evelyn making a visit to Iowa City. https://amp.hawkcentral.com/amp/1274080001 Valparaiso guard Bakari Evelyn will take an official visit to Iowa from June 7-9, he confirmed to the Register on Wednesday. Iowa assistant coach Sherman Dillard offered him a scholarship during a phone call a couple weeks ago, before the dead period started May 16. Evelyn said he could "possibly" visit Rhode Island, in part depending on how his Iowa visit goes. He holds offers from Iowa, Rhode Island, NMSU and Portland State. What are the Hawkeyes thinking?
So the only explanation I have here is that a guy that has experience and only takes a scholarship up for 1 year is a nice thing to have on a team that has a space open. You need to fill that space with a warm body, so might as well take someone that you can throw in the game if needed. Bakari had a good year the season before last, last year was rough on several levels, but he has likely shown enough to know he can hold his own on the court. Just like we took Lavendar for a year (and he played a bigger role than we would have expected/hoped he would). Bakari, Markus, Sorolla. They are all looking at bigger schools and will likely land with one, not because they have dominated the lower competition, but because they are serviceable and a known quantity and at only a 1 year scholarship, low "cost"/risk.
Thought you wanted to put this post here as I believe it refers to Bakari.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 29, 2019, 07:47:53 PMSomeone should message his future coach about his prolific end of half/game last shot abilities. To be fair, it's on Lottich after the first 7 tries so this is just being snarky.
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 30, 2019, 06:35:37 AM
I have no problem with Javon Freeman exploring the possibilities and coming back to roost. it would be interesting to understand his specific reasoning to come back as I think Valpo can get some lessons learned on what they could do to improve.
College basketball is going through significant changes recently and Valpo needs to keep up.
My sentiments as well. If there were a like button on the mobile site I'd click it!
Quote from: vuny98 on May 30, 2019, 09:15:04 AMSo the only explanation I have here is that a guy that has experience and only takes a scholarship up for 1 year is a nice thing to have on a team that has a space open. You need to fill that space with a warm body, so might as well take someone that you can throw in the game if needed. Bakari had a good year the season before last, last year was rough on several levels, but he has likely shown enough to know he can hold his own on the court
It will be interesting to see if Bakari can turn things around and have a much better year at a place like Iowa, New Mexico State, Rhode Island or Portland State. It might tell us something about our coach and his staff.
Quote from: vuny98 on May 30, 2019, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: bbtds on May 30, 2019, 01:04:17 AMStory on Iowa website about Evelyn making a visit to Iowa City. https://amp.hawkcentral.com/amp/1274080001 Valparaiso guard Bakari Evelyn will take an official visit to Iowa from June 7-9, he confirmed to the Register on Wednesday. Iowa assistant coach Sherman Dillard offered him a scholarship during a phone call a couple weeks ago, before the dead period started May 16. Evelyn said he could "possibly" visit Rhode Island, in part depending on how his Iowa visit goes. He holds offers from Iowa, Rhode Island, NMSU and Portland State. What are the Hawkeyes thinking?
So the only explanation I have here is that a guy that has experience and only takes a scholarship up for 1 year is a nice thing to have on a team that has a space open. You need to fill that space with a warm body, so might as well take someone that you can throw in the game if needed. Bakari had a good year the season before last, last year was rough on several levels, but he has likely shown enough to know he can hold his own on the court. Just like we took Lavendar for a year (and he played a bigger role than we would have expected/hoped he would). Bakari, Markus, Sorolla. They are all looking at bigger schools and will likely land with one, not because they have dominated the lower competition, but because they are serviceable and a known quantity and at only a 1 year scholarship, low "cost"/risk.
Do we think that the coaching staff was somewhat happy to see any of these transfers leave? Since many of them were truly mediocre in the MVC, don't some of us think that it's a win to see them depart rather than suffer them an additional year?
I think the part that hurts more is that it happened in bulk because of the way the recruiting classes came together. If we had just lost Bakari and Sorolla for example, would that have been a net loss? I suppose the major failure would have been if our coaching staff stopped recruiting because they expected a large returning class.
On the surface they were prepared, but the quality has yet to prove itself. We could be returning to the same level of skill or worse for all that we know. But as some have said, maybe we can build around players that want to be here as opposed to players that feel entitled and are whiny. (see Smits and Bakari)
Quote from: bbtds on May 30, 2019, 11:50:52 AM
Thought you wanted to put this post here as I believe it refers to Bakari.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 29, 2019, 07:47:53 PMSomeone should message his future coach about his prolific end of half/game last shot abilities. To be fair, it's on Lottich after the first 7 tries so this is just being snarky.
Yes, thank you. Sometimes posting in a hurry doesn't pan out!
Quote from: bbtds on May 30, 2019, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: vuny98 on May 30, 2019, 09:15:04 AMSo the only explanation I have here is that a guy that has experience and only takes a scholarship up for 1 year is a nice thing to have on a team that has a space open. You need to fill that space with a warm body, so might as well take someone that you can throw in the game if needed. Bakari had a good year the season before last, last year was rough on several levels, but he has likely shown enough to know he can hold his own on the court
It will be interesting to see if Bakari can turn things around and have a much better year at a place like Iowa, New Mexico State, Rhode Island or Portland State. It might tell us something about our coach and his staff.
What is your gut feeling on Bakari as a player? Do you think last year was mostly the results of injury and off season surgery? I don't recall, how was his defense two years back when he was healthy? I think his complaining overshadowed EVERYTHING for me, I had my blinders on with him and Smits and really disliked how they carried themselves on the court.
What are your thoughts on Bakari bbtds?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 30, 2019, 12:16:52 PMWhat is your gut feeling on Bakari as a player? Do you think last year was mostly the results of injury and off season surgery? I don't recall, how was his defense two years back when he was healthy? I think his complaining overshadowed EVERYTHING for me, I had my blinders on with him and Smits and really disliked how they carried themselves on the court.
What are your thoughts on Bakari bbtds?
It's starting to sink in that maybe we might have missed something with Bakari. But then again maybe not. He wouldn't be the only pick up by a B1G team, if he ends up at Iowa, to go totally bust. I am intrigued by the possibility of Bakari totally turning things around but if I had to make a prediction it would be that Iowa is making a mistake and Bakari will we even worse than last year.
As far as Bakari's personality I think his conflicts with his teammates irritated me to a great deal.