We're all thinking it so we might as well start a thread.
Uhhhh let me think about it real quick and get back to you.
no
NO! Go away Matt! And don't touch anything else on your way out lest you ruin it too! It might take a decade to recover from just two years of his "coaching." We have disgraced ourselves. We have disgraced the MVC and unlike Loyola we have no plan to get better. They could have had Murray State and been close to their goal of being a multibid league. I feel bad for the MVC. We only got in because we're private and we have done nothing but embarrass the conference. I am sorry on behalf of Valpo MVC.
Man .... what a day. And to think there could be more like it coming. We've gotta prove we care about this program. We have to. If he can't even win his own players back ... come on. MLB needs to do something quick.
I too feel for the mvc. We suck. Absolutely suck. At this rate, I'm out as a tenured season ticket holder. No thanks. Not going to support this disaster.
I'd hope that the AD is getting feedback from the players leaving to better understand the underlying cause. I'm not making any judgments until I see what the roster looks like next Fall.
Can't win games. Can't keep his players. Shouldn't keep his job.
Here's what I think:
While it's easy to state this today, after a bad year and an emotional day. (who would have thought the worst day of the season for VuMBB would be after they were done playing?)
It's time for a change.
You can't let him go into next year as a lame duck. It will kill the recruiting and a miss on this summer's class will cripple the program for years. And you think the crowds at the ARC are getting bad? What happens in Feb 2020 when we're 10-17? Might be able to go back to not opening the mezzanine.
I don't know MLB that well but I think he only has two options. Fire Lottich or give him a contract extension. I know the second is laughable right now but after three years you know what you have. If he still truly believes Lottich is the guy then back it up. Of course the downside of that is if he's wrong he likely isn't around to hire the next guy.
Otherwise you make the change. I doubt we have a Drake like turnaround in us, but maybe MoST? We still have some talent and a fiery young assistant getting out on the trail this summer could have us middle of the pack next year and poised to make the jump in 2021.
Make the wrong decision here and we'll be on this board in 2023 still wondering if we can become relevant in this league, still playing on Thursday night in St Louis, and still playing in the same s***ty high school caliber gym.
For better or worse, one way or another, it's time for decisive action.
I don't see why he would keep his job.
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Why would he keep his job? Because this same AD gave Tracy Dorow a contract extension.
Men's basketball program is progressing very nicely.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 19, 2019, 04:58:47 PMWhy would he keep his job? Because this same AD gave Tracy Dorow a contract extension.
If he extends Lottich he can go too. Indefensible. Lottich has shown nothing to indicate that he can lead our flagship sport.
I suspect more and possibly much more at work with the transfers which make replacing the coach only potentially solving a part of the problem and also potentially not solving anything.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 19, 2019, 03:51:04 PMNO! Go away Matt! And don't touch anything else on your way out lest you ruin it too! It might take a decade to recover from just two years of his "coaching."
Lets be clear about what just happened. Our players just delivered a "no confidence" vote for ML and the future of VU basketball. :'(
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 19, 2019, 04:02:33 PMYou can't let him go into next year as a lame duck. It will kill the recruiting and a miss on this summer's class will cripple the program for years.
I can't even begin to define success for the 19-20 season and Matt shouldn't define it either. We need a clean break with a clean start.
Losing sucks, but the way we did it....What was our style? Middle school's run more set plays. Lottich should be out and whoever he hired as well.
If and when Lottich loses his job Coach Gore and company have to go as well. I know every one likes Gore but he is a coach with lots of experience who is on this staff. That means he is partly responsible. No way he was not consulted on a daily basis on how to right the ship. If the program is in disarray your most experienced assistant needs to go too. Sorry guys.
Sanity - it's a fair comment. Sad to say but fair.
I just can't see VU firing him and having to pay 2 head coach salaries for the next year.
That's true. The people who would have to green light a 250k buyout are the same who won't spend any money to upgrade the sound system.
Unfortunately this will be the case. He'll be here at least another year. If he gets an extension I'm done.
Valpo could be at an all time low next season
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Gore is a great guy. Fans and players like him. However, Bryce's staff was good at hiding Gore.
Last time we hire a coach, it went like this.
1. 1st call to Powell, denied
2. 2nd call to Gore, he didn't want it either.
3. 3rd call to Lottich, absolutely. This is the only place I will get a head coaching job with only 3 years of 6th assistant on my resume.
This time we hire a coach.
1. Call Powell again, don't know the outcome
2. Call Ron Hunter, he loves dancing, in the tournament and on the sideline - very different and probably wouldn't fly with our "old" ways of doing things. I mean steady and reserve and don't reinvest in the product.
3. Call Diebler
Live look at the ADs office:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/NTur7XlVDUdqM/giphy.gif)
So we're going to pinch pennies instead of doing what's best for the program... That tells me everything I need to know... We are not committed to winning at the MVC level and we won't be for quite some times. Thanks for the past quarter century I'll try to remember how great it was when we're playing our 12th straight Thursday game in St Louis 10 years from now... Sigh... We could have been\could still be something if our leadership gave a rip about basketball but I guess that's too much to ask...
This situation cannot be ignored. Someone at Valpo needs to address this.
This doesn't sound like a coach that's going anywhere... A one year hiatus is looking good for me and for my mental health. I have other things I can be focusing on if Valpo doesn't care why should I?
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1108145076738375680
What a bullsh*t statement from Lottich.
Would have been fantastic had he ended by saying....im stepping down
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I think we all know MLB would never fire him. That would be another coaching hire failure on his part (of which the list is many.)
If you're sad about the transfers today then some of you will be even mad when you hear Lottich isn't going anywhere. Buckle up because he's athletics departments guy for better or worse.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 19, 2019, 06:42:22 PM
If you're sad about the transfers today then some of you will be even mad when you hear Lottich isn't going anywhere. Buckle up because he's athletics departments guy for better or worse.
I'm out. See you next year. You might still catch me on MVCFans from time to time. and I may still read but I'm not going to post as much. I'll miss you all but this is for the best. I can't take another season of Matt Lottich and this program isn't worth the time effort and energy I'm investing in it. Time to turn my focus inward and to other passions like studying languages to hopefully improve myself and become more marketable so that I can finally land a longterm career job. Go Valpo!
That's because our athletic dept. always does everything on the cheap and it's finally caught up to them. They're gonna circle the wagons rather than act as responsible stewards of the program.
I think it would've been better to stay radio silent for the next few days and really think of something more positive to deliver than respond to the fallout with that. Or heck just stay radio silent period. Not a good look (or read).
I just signed a petition to legalize medical marijuana in Indiana. All of us might need this prescription to stomach mens basketball for the 2019-20 season.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 19, 2019, 06:23:06 PM
Live look at the ADs office:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/NTur7XlVDUdqM/giphy.gif)
Maybe we can move, enlarge and update the AD's office into a sealed fireproof facility where we can legally address our medical marijuana issues. Properly planned and executed it could be our biggest ARC improvement in decades. :thumbsup: Think of it as a modern day bombed shelter. Brownies would be nice!
Next year can still be "alright." Sackey, gordon, fazekas, golder, and sorolla is still a solid foundation. Allegedly, Bradford is gone as well, but the bleeding has got to stop there. It'll be interesting to see who they can land this offseason. Life as a mid major sucks right now with the current transfer rules. I dont know if ML is the guy or not, but, if there were alot of "ego" and "me" going on, that's hella tough situation, even though I know it's his job to get through it. It's tough to remember that ML hasnt recruited a lot of these players, but he has been around them as HC for 2 years so that is concerning. I'm not too concerned about Bakari or smits, but Freeman really hurt. I thought he was the piece going forward. Grab a grad player or three this off season and roll out players who are team first and see what happens. If its more of the same, then see ya.
I have to get this out: I know nobody else would have done any better because our BOR\BOT are terrible for athletics but I think it's fair to ask what exactly MLB brings to the table... Yeah the conference moves but he didn't hire the people responsible for them. No sport consistently contends there's rarely any exciting athletics related fund raising (which may not be his fault). I know be careful what you wish for and I'm not calling for his job I just think it's fair to ask partly because I simply don't know. He's probably the greatest AD we've ever had or ever will have but given our history that isn't saying much. In moments of extreme turmoil like this nobody is above scrutiny.
Man, that statement is infuriating and I was prepared to be infuriated when I started reading it.
That was not a BS starement - what would you expect him to say?
I think MLBs legacy is on the line with the next couple of years. I don't necessarily hold the non success of the non revenue sports against him per say. (Although the hires there don't inspire much confidence.)
Right the ship and you're taking your rightful place in the Hall of Fame next to your predecessor. (Assuming he makes the 20 year threshold) Otherwise you'll be known as the guy who pissed away the legacy of DI success.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 19, 2019, 07:19:31 PM
That was not a BS starement - what would you expect him to say?
How about one I or me or one ounce of ownership of this mess from our "head coach" It's always something else with this guy. The buck never stops with him. That's the problem.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 19, 2019, 06:28:55 PMThis doesn't sound like a coach that's going anywhere...
:censored: this guy. Seriously. He's a grown ass man, yet all he has are bs excuses. It doesn't surprise me that players are leaving.
We were tired. We were hurt. We had laundry to do. Now players are leaving because they want to achieve their personal goals?
Look in the mirror my dude. You're a :censored: coach. You are the problem.
This is the beginning of the end of Valpo Basketball as we know it. Sad but true.
I could have accepted this statement as being somewhat reasonable IF Freeman were not transferring. I cannot imagine a plan going forward in which Freeman would not be a key part. One of your primary jobs as a college coach is to attract and retain good talent. I don't think that they will fire him, but I would support it if they did.
I've been around VU basketball for a long time. Homer's consecutive years of 5-22 5-22 and 4-24 were bad. But there was hope for the future back then, with Redmon and Schmidt coming in and then Bryce. Plus at the time Tracy Gipson was an excellent player and very fun to watch, even with all the losing.
The last three years have produced more wins than those three years, but I haven't had much fun watching Matt Lottich teams. And after today, I have little hope for the future of VU basketball under the current regime.
Sad state of affairs going on with this program. If I were in charge, I'd clean house and hit the restart button. Usually the hardest thing to do is the right thing.
Or maybe we give Lottich one more year and then when he underperforms again we can replace him with Bryce after Vandy shows him the door. Who the hell knows at this point. What a mess. The AD has complete ownership of this current situation too because it's all happened on his watch/oversight
So the general consensus in the few hours since I started this thread is that while most of us agree we need to make a change, that change won't be made. Hard to argue with that.
So maybe the next question that should be asked is who should hire the next coach, whenever that may be?
Meanwhile Belmont wins its first ever tournament game. Murray State keeps humming along and we're in shambles... I look like a fool right now for supporting Valpo to the MVC.
In my defense though I overestimated Lottich we didn't know he was this bad at the time (gosh darn it this roster should have competed especially this year. It wasn't a talent problem.) And I undetestimated the degree of apathy and inertia from the administration\board. It was and remains absolutely the right move if we get off our_________________sses and fight to compete. Now is the time. Take action. Do something. These programs aren't just gonna lie down and let us beat them up like many in the HL did. We need to fight. We need to compete if we're going to survive in and be a credit to this league. If we don't we'll be a long-term perhaps permanent burden.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 19, 2019, 10:56:03 PMIt wasn't a talent problem.
It was a talent problem.
If you wish to say the coach is responsible for the talent level on the roster then the coach should be looked at as a contributor but my guess is that the issue(s) run beyond the coaching staff with the players. That is players who are recently on the roster, currently on the roster and may have passed up opportunity to ever be on the roster.
Let's start. You're a Division I basketball candidate. Likely not a P5 guy but at least a good player at a mid major or, EUREKA, a really good player at a mid major. Why you looking at Valpo or rather why should you listen to them? Facilities? Support for program? Conference? Campus life? Surrounding area? Academics? Coaching staff? Only Div I offer? What are you checking off?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 19, 2019, 10:34:40 PM
So the general consensus in the few hours since I started this thread is that while most of us agree we need to make a change, that change won't be made. Hard to argue with that.
So maybe the next question that should be asked is who should hire the next coach, whenever that may be?
Why should any of us care? We are now all Belmont, Murray and Bradley fans. :thewave:
Why are we rooting on the OVC teams that we want to go to the MVC again? We want them to have reasons to jump. winning as OVC members doesn't do that.
He's going to get a chance to finish out his contract. I firmly believe if next year goes poorly he will be fired. Everyone just needs to get themselves there emotionally because that is the way it isgoing to be.
Only question is what will it take next year for him....to....
1. Avoid being fired
2. Start to change fan base opinion of him.
I would actually love an xs and os guy which I don't think Lottich is. But that said I do think he has had a lot of bad luck in his 1st 3 years and saying he solely ruined the program Is hyperbolic. So many things have been outside of his control and to a certain extant transfers fit that bill as well although not all transfers are created equal. JFL and his family want him at a P6 school and in the big dance. That is the #1 reason he is leaving. Smits improved here despite being the epitome of a spoiled rich kid. Lavender was terrible every place he played until arriving here and literally filling the stat sheet. Bakari was much improved here compared to Nebraska before his latest surgery. Fazekas was starting to be a stud before injury. I dunno.
So maybe we should fire him after next year. Maybe not. I wouldn't be opposed to giving up and starting over but part of me is curious what the guy can do with 2-3 years of relatively healthy players and no academic issues in which success isn't constantly interrupted forcing confidence to wane and more kids to transfer due to poor moral.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 19, 2019, 10:11:17 PMOr maybe we give Lottich one more year and then when he underperforms again we can replace him with Bryce after Vandy shows him the door.
Never, ever, going to happen.
Why do you say it will never happen? Do you have inside insight or just saying that based on what you know?
I know it's a pipe dream, but at this point, Lottich and Bryce have the odds against them for lasting after next year.
If Belmont and Murray State join the MVC they'll make us play on Wednesday night in St Louis.
Be careful or Paul will do a podcast on your post.
Lottich should have hired the Donny Bosco Coach former almuni. Would have kept Skara and had a good coach and recruiter on staff. I bet Lottich was intimidated by him. I promise we would be in a better situation than we are now.
I woke up feeling hungover this morning and I didn't even drink last night.
The reason why the public is aware of Valpo is due to their basketball program. The reputation of that program was one of the few assets the university had that could sell on nationwide level. And now we're in danger of throwing that all away.
This goes beyond the W-L record of the past few years. There something wrong with this program. And there's a danger that things will become toxic.
On paper, Valpo was set to compete next year. Barring injuries (and other unforeseen events), I think we could have made a splash. It seemed like the guys on our team got along well. This team wasn't made up of selfish, prima donnas.
Yet 3 players, so far, have decided to leave. Leave the place they know for some unknown destination. Leave their friends and teammates and start over again. In a choice of Valpo versus something else, it appears that anything else is better.
That doesn't happen when you have a healthy program. Maybe the turnover in assistant coaches should have been a warning sign. Maybe the fall off in student attendance should have tipped us off that all was not well.
There's only one person responsible for this program. Matt Lottich. He has not been a good steward of the program. He needs to be held accountable.
[/quote]
Why should any of us care? We are now all Belmont, Murray and Bradley fans. :thewave:
[/quote]
Not ALL of us.
Quote from: mj on March 20, 2019, 08:10:24 AM
The reason why the public is aware of Valpo is due to their basketball program. The reputation of that program was one of the few assets the university had that could sell on nationwide level. And now we're in danger of throwing that all away.
This goes beyond the W-L record of the past few years. There something wrong with this program. And there's a danger that things will become toxic.
On paper, Valpo was set to compete next year. Barring injuries (and other unforeseen events), I think we could have made a splash. It seemed like the guys on our team got along well. This team wasn't made up of selfish, prima donnas.
Yet 3 players, so far, have decided to leave. Leave the place they know for some unknown destination. Leave their friends and teammates and start over again. In a choice of Valpo versus something else, it appears that anything else is better.
That doesn't happen when you have a healthy program. Maybe the turnover in assistant coaches should have been a warning sign. Maybe the fall off in student attendance should have tipped us off that all was not well.
There's only one person responsible for this program. Matt Lottich. He has not been a good steward of the program. He needs to be held accountable.
Matt Lottich is not a good coach. Expecting him to do much more than he was unable to do for three years is the definition of insanity. It's time to cut bait, take your losses and right the ship - without Matt. Keeping him only to find out that he will perform no differently from his performance thus far will damage the Valpo brand, which is hanging in the balance now. What will the AD do when next year's team has a horrible, losing season (very likely)? And if VU is lucky enough to get good recruits who, after a terrible season of confusion and losing come to the same conclusion about the coach and the program as the three who just left us did, the permanent damage to the program will have been done. Game over. Valpo back to mediocrity for a long time. Valpo will become the Chicago State of the MVC.
But heck, "with how many players seek new teams each year, no transfers surprise me."
Basketball is certainly the flagship sport at Valpo, and this situation needs to be handled with urgency. Valpo has been very conservative and overly patient in making decisions. They kept Carlson for 4 years when 3 was more than enough. They kept Dorow longer than they should. Also, the university needs to quit believing the Bryce Drew shot will keep them alive. I am very concerned as this program may revert to the Tom Smith era, and that is not good.
I'll be honest. Sucking next year doesn't scare me, that's probably where we're headed.
What really scares me is a .500 or slightly above .500 season. I think that would earn ML an extension and that would truly torpedo the program.
QuoteLottich should have hired the Donny Bosco Coach former almuni. Would have kept Skara and had a good coach and recruiter on staff. I bet Lottich was intimidated by him. I promise we would be in a better situation than we are now.
No. A million times no. You don't let h.s. "coaches," player's relatives, or slimy street agents dictate your university's coaching hires. You can't. Once you've opened that pandora's box, it's over. Although Skara leaving hurt, you simply don't outsource hiring decisions like this to people not involved with the program and who are only looking out for their personal gain. Not now, not ever. This is one of the few decisions Lottich made that I back 100%. That would have been a shortcut that would have led to MAJOR problems for us somewhere down the road.
Quote from: mj on March 20, 2019, 08:10:24 AMThere something wrong with this program. And there's a danger that things will become toxic.
Absolutely true.
Quote
There's only one person responsible for this program. Matt Lottich.
Absolute nonsense.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 20, 2019, 10:27:07 AM
QuoteLottich should have hired the Donny Bosco Coach former almuni. Would have kept Skara and had a good coach and recruiter on staff. I bet Lottich was intimidated by him. I promise we would be in a better situation than we are now.
No. A million times no. You don't let h.s. "coaches," player's relatives, or slimy street agents dictate your university's coaching hires. You can't. Once you've opened that pandora's box, it's over. Although Skara leaving hurt, you simply don't outsource hiring decisions like this to people not involved with the program and who are only looking out for their personal gain. Not now, not ever. This is one of the few decisions Lottich made that I back 100%. That would have been a shortcut that would have led to MAJOR problems for us somewhere down the road.
How did Skara even end up at Valpo to begin with? ???
Lottich has issues but the situation is bigger than him. Valpo needs to open the checkbook for our flagship program.
You hear of private (sometimes public) donors at schools who pay off existing contracts or negotiate the deals in situations just like we're in. Make it easier on the university to make the right decision. He needs fired. Plain and simple. Not next year. THIS year. But, we don't have the donors to make that decision easier for the university to justify. If I had the finances, I'd pick up the phone and call MLB. I'd say: "Who do I write the check to and what's today's date?"
But, alas, I don't. So, I'm just another fan who can only express my concern through a message board and hope to commiserate with you all. Misery loves company.
MLB - to my knowledge - doesn't read any of this or care what we think. And Matt has made it very clear he doesn't look at any of this. The man must live in a cave. Idk what else to say. A cave built in a way designed to separate him from reality.
The only reason existing players are staying - I'd assume - is because of the reasons mentioned: not wanting to lose their scholarships, relationships, significant others, degree pathways, etc. understandable.
With the general , very negative comments some of you are making regarding our program, staff, A D , suggesting that some of our current players and potential recruits perhaps should re- think their commitment to VU, etc. you sure are not helping Valparaiso University, it's MBB program, Athletic Dept leadership and University Administration to meet future challenges and problems that currently exist, especially in light of our move to the MVC. While we may not all agree, some of us better realize that MLaB, ML and other University officials carefully watch what they say in public realizing that damaging, poorly worded statements can be very damaging to the School and it's programs. It is about time some of the comments from people posting on this board should do the same so those few don't become part of the problem. The road to hell is paved with good intentions!
Understand what you're saying 64, but this is a fan message board for fans to blow off some steam. I'm as guilty as anyone at getting worked up but most schools would kill for the level of passion MVC fans show for their schools, even if it's not always expressed as well as it could be.
This is one of the downsides of having a smaller school whose fans come from everywhere to attend Valpo, then go back to everywhere to continue our lives, leaving Valpo itself with a small number of alums and this message board as one of the few places to come together.
If we were Illinois State grads we could just call off our night shifts at Chipotle and meet down at the bar.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 20, 2019, 12:43:41 PMWith the general , very negative comments some of you are making regarding our program, staff, A D , suggesting that some of our current players and potential recruits perhaps should re- think their commitment to VU, etc. you sure are not helping Valparaiso University, it's MBB program, Athletic Dept leadership and University Administration to meet future challenges and problems that currently exist, especially in light of our move to the MVC. While we may not all agree, some of us better realize that MLaB, ML and other University officials carefully watch what they say in public realizing that damaging, poorly worded statements can be very damaging to the School and it's programs. It is about time some of the comments from people posting on this board should do the same so those few don't become part of the problem. The road to hell is paved with good intentions!
Come on. This is ridiculous. I'm not going to pretend that all is well with dear old Valpo, when the evidence suggests otherwise.
I'd like to hear the case for keeping Lottich around. The accusations against him have been said many times. Let's get the rebuttal.
There are some really reasonable and reasoned people on this forum. It just seems that these days the whack-jobs are drowning them out.
64.......Get in touch with reality... Lottich is not the guy. The quicker we move the better and quicker the recovery. Thank goodness you are not charge. Lottich and the AD would be around until 2040 with one winning season.
When there are problems, come up with solutions and move forward. Don't make excuses and don't be slow. That's how Valpo got into this mess.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 20, 2019, 12:28:40 PM
MLB - to my knowledge - doesn't read any of this or care what we think. And Matt has made it very clear he doesn't look at any of this. The man must live in a cave. Idk what else to say. A cave built in a way designed to separate him from reality.
Don't be so sure. He does, as do many of the administration E.g., Brandon's posts in football and numerous informative posts by ml2 while he was on staff and even now while working at Ohio State. But MLB will hardly ever get involved in a board arguement. Believe me, he knows exactly what is happening in these strings. Just don't expect him to get into a pissing contest with fans and alums.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 20, 2019, 12:28:40 PMMLB - to my knowledge - doesn't read any of this or care what we think.
I believe he an occasional poster on this board. I recall the discussion on how to improve things on campus a few years ago(?).
Quote from: mj on March 20, 2019, 01:48:30 PMI'd like to hear the case for keeping Lottich around. The accusations against him have been said many times. Let's get the rebuttal.
OK, I'll give it a go. I haven't seen so many physical (Alec, Tevonn, Fazekas etc.)issues affecting results for prior coaches, Bryce or Homer. I don't recall an academic scandal/issues for either Bryce or Homer (Jubril, Burton) but issues aside, look at the results from the last three seasons: 24-9. 15-17 and 15-18. That's a three year record of 54-44. Did such a streak of two years in a row of a losing record ever befall Homer? No, I'm not talking about his first few years. I'm talking about well after the '98 run to the Sweet Sixteen. Let's look at his final SEVEN years as head coach: 04-05: 15-16, 05-06: 17-12 06-07: 16-15 07-08: 22-14 08-09: 9-22 09-10:15-17 10-11:23-12 So, from 04-05 to 06-07, his record was 48-43. From 08-09 to 10-11, his record was 47-51 and for the entire seven year period,his record was 117-108. The stuff legends are made of.
Is Matt a good coach? I will rely on former coaches like fwalum for such assessments. Does his record over a three year period equate to a firing? If so Mark should have wrung up Homer, or was he relying on success from 10 years earlier when he went 9-22 in 08-09? I certainly don't recall any of the stuff happening that has happened to Matt nor was Homer operating in an environment where a 1000 D1 kids are transferring every year. Instant gratification sometimes takes time and Matt certainly deserves to have another year or to complete his contract before we hang him in effigy. I rest my case.
Just watch the games and the answer to your question will appear. It doesn't take an ex coach to see it either
Quote from: JD24 on March 20, 2019, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 20, 2019, 12:28:40 PMMLB - to my knowledge - doesn't read any of this or care what we think.
I believe he an occasional poster on this board. I recall the discussion on how to improve things on campus a few years ago(?).
Yes ... AD and Son of AD are both occasional posters.
Quote from: vu72 on March 20, 2019, 04:18:00 PMInstant gratification sometimes takes time
And just like that, I think we have a new mantra for the program. I'll get the t-shirts printed ... any volunteers to work on posters?
The T-Shirts cracked me up. ;D But I agree with JD24 and "Sanity Kept" and 64. Let's admit we are mad about the transfers because we all saw the massive potential and the defensive work we got from Javon. Derrik and Bakari departures would not have sent us into a rage at Lottich. As said, Javon has the ability to move up and excel. Our roster suggests a re-build would happen in his junior year. So, Javon's move is understandable even though it hurts.
I really hate to see the venom we are firing at Lottich. I don't know the guy or live in Valpo. But if I am in a jury, I don't see the evidence to convict him or MLB. Meanwhile JD24 brings up good points that VU itself does not feature a whole lot of pluses for recruiting. As we understandably sense and fear, program's momentum is all that halts a descent to the rank of the ARC, VU's financial health, and its student life environment. MLB and ML are both swimming upstream.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 20, 2019, 04:24:42 PM
Just watch the games and the answer to your question will appear. It doesn't take an ex coach to see it either
Jeez, I watch the games and it seems clear as mud to me and I even have a little bit of experience with this stuff. There are a ton of reasons why things have not gone well for Matt in the past 2 years. I have outlined them in other threads, some of them he needs to own and many others are out of his control. How soon we forget that this was the coaching staff it seemed the 2017 seniors wanted after Bryce and Roger left, and they played very well for him (24-9) considering he had no Carter, Skara, Williams and Adekoya. 4 of those loses where without Alec. Do you really think the Bryce led 2016 team wins 30 games without those four guys? Go back and look at some of the threads where we talked about his end game management being better than Bryce because at least now we had timeouts to use at the end of games instead of Bryce burning them all in the first half.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2019, 05:20:47 PMThe T-Shirts cracked me up. ;D But I agree with JD24 and "Sanity Kept" and 64. Let's admit we are mad about the transfers because we all saw the massive potential and the defensive work we got from Javon. Derrik and Bakari departures would not have sent us into a rage at Lottich. As said, Javon has the ability to move up and excel. Our roster suggests a re-build would happen in his junior year. So, Javon's move is understandable even though it hurts. I really hate to see the venom we are firing at Lottich. I don't know the guy or live in Valpo. But if I am in a jury, I don't see the evidence to convict him or MLB. Meanwhile JD24 brings up good points that VU itself does not feature a whole lot of pluses for recruiting. As we understandably sense and fear, program's momentum is all that halts a descent to the rank of the ARC, VU's financial health, and its student life environment. MLB and ML are both swimming upstream.
I've got to agree. The transfer of our potential star player Javon is what is so unsettling. Plus we're not used to losing so many transfers at once ( although each year someone leaves ). As of right now there are 32 teams that have 3 or more players transferring, and I'm sure that number will grow much larger. Are ALL of those because of coaching? Some probably are but not all.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 20, 2019, 06:26:21 AM
Why do you say it will never happen? Do you have inside insight or just saying that based on what you know?
I know it's a pipe dream, but at this point, Lottich and Bryce have the odds against them for lasting after next year.
Bryce won't come back to Valpo. Maybe a step down to a mid-major but not back to Valpo until maybe his late 40's or 50's when his coaching career is heading towards it's latter stages. That is a good time to help the alma mater and feel less of a need to aspire to greater heights in coaching.
I also feel that I need to reserve judgement on Lottich until next year. There were comments earlier about Loyola during their Final 4 run as being a team without the selfishness that has invaded college MBB in so many areas and college sports in general. I'm not saying that it has happened but maybe, just maybe, Lottich has fumbled away some of the selfishness that had seeped into the program by accident and the players that remain may see it and find a way to buy into what Lottich is trying to do for the program. I think Javon bailed on Valpo too early. Just because they gave the Valpo coach a vote of no confidence doesn't mean they made a good decision. Maybe Lottich can find some shooters find a team cohesiveness and finish much stronger. I'll wait to see if this can happen.
I think the university's lack of commitment to the basketball program and their frugality is a bigger issue than ML.
Agree with USC.
I'm not an insider, and I don't see enough games to know whether ML should stay or go. I do believe that given the scarce resources and the lack of commitment from Board/Admin to make Men's B-Ball a bigger priority, any new coach would be faced with a lot of the same obstacles.
Well at least no one transferred today.
Quoteany new coach would be faced with a lot of the same obstacles.
Yes, they would if the change occurred in a vacuum. The assumption is that a coaching change would be accompanied by other investments and/or fundraising that recognize we're in a grown-up league with other grown-up programs now.
That's a good point about the board/admin not doing much to help ML. It's the one program that gets the school national exposure, and they seem to not do much to help the school's flagship program. That leaves ML less to work with and more pressure. But not sure one should expect much from the board that also oversaw the law school while it went under.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 20, 2019, 09:21:15 PMQuoteany new coach would be faced with a lot of the same obstacles.
Yes, they would if the change occurred in a vacuum. The assumption is that a coaching change would be accompanied by other investments and/or fundraising that recognize we're in a grown-up league with other grown-up programs now.
Why would you make that assumption?
Honestly I'm not sure what to think about Coach Lottich's coaching future. There is no denying this is a giant cluster-#%&$ now.
The roster is a complete mess and if he gets let go after the 19-20 season it leaves you a blank slate for the next coach with only a few key pieces assuming they don't transfer (Gordon(1yr eligibility), Clay (3 yrs eligibility) and Robinson(1 yr eligibility), Sackey 2yrs).
It might actually be wiser to let Lottich go now and have the new coach get a year with Gordon/Robinson/Sackey and Clay (if he stayed) and maybe they are convinced to stay after the season because of familiarity and comfort. That way it would also allow the new coach time to recruit the 2020 class and get his guys in there and stop all the turnover. This is a mess.
The sad part is I don't think the University wants to or can afford to pay a coach to go away even if they knew deep down it was time to cutbait. If we let go of Coach Lottich then it seems like we'd lose Coach Gore too who has been a stalwart of this program for nearly 2 decades and is a excellent assistant/associate HC.
This is completely FUBAR
And Lottich back next year with a cobbled together roster won't draw 1,500 most nights.
The title is "Should Lottich keep his job?"
At this rate there won't be a team left to coach.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 21, 2019, 01:10:33 PM
And Lottich back next year with a cobbled together roster won't draw 1,500 most nights.
Yes, I could see 1500 showing up for Vandy. With good weather maybe the complete lower bowl will sell out. :o
The one's who believe Vandy is coming are the one's who think Lottich is fine. :crazy: :lol:
To the tune of American Pie:
A long long time ago,
I can still remember how
That Pacer play made me smile
And I thought if Lottich had his chance
He'd get the Saders back to the dance
And maybe find a win for the first time in awhile
But twenty nineteen made me shiver
With every turd this team delivered
The losses, they were stackin,
Half the roster's bags were packin
I can't remember how much beer,
I drank when Javon said, "No, not here."
Matt L in three years sure did steer,
This team, into the ground....
So my, my, how the players did fly.
First came Derrick, then came Freeman, then Bakari said bye
Then Markus too, and all the fans just ask why?
Thinking this'll be the day the program dies......
This'll be the day the program dies
Golder now too ... lol ... how could ANYBODY think he should keep his job at this point? Unbelievable.
Should he keep it vs will he keep it??
What's it feel like to be a Valpo fan right now? Wondering how things will turn out. How many more players will leave. How many excuses can be made for this disastrous season. How long it will take for renovations to be made to the ARC. Well, it reminds me of this great commercial from years ago. How many licks will it take before we get REAL change and investment into this program? Seems like we're getting close to the center of the tootsie roll pop... right? Can't get much worse, can it? We won't give him an extension - will we?
Well... The world may never know.
https://youtu.be/O6rHeD5x2tI
This forum is becoming unbearable with the same 3 posts over and over and over again.
Should we give this guy a call?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26327845/bama-negotiating-buyout-johnson
Anyone else get sick to their stomach reading that glowing bio of Maravilla in The Times?
My daughter pointed out that today's gospel reading seems to fit this thread:
6 Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?'
8 "'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.'"
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2019, 07:31:02 AM
Anyone else get sick to their stomach reading that glowing bio of Maravilla in The Times?
Ironically it was written by one Paul Oren. Quite the 180.
Spoiler Alert:
The fig tree still didn't bear fruit so the man cut it down AND fired the man who planted it.
10 On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11 and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12 When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." 13 Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
It sounds like we could have 18 years before we find our next successful coach.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2019, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2019, 07:31:02 AM
Anyone else get sick to their stomach reading that glowing bio of Maravilla in The Times?
Ironically it was written by one Paul Oren. Quite the 180.
Story gets assigned, story gets written. Paycheck gets cashed.
Quote from: Pgmado on March 24, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2019, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2019, 07:31:02 AM
Anyone else get sick to their stomach reading that glowing bio of Maravilla in The Times?
Ironically it was written by one Paul Oren. Quite the 180.
Story gets assigned, story gets written. Paycheck gets cashed.
Question, Did he take the last article personally? Do things like that affect the writing of this article?
There is good and bad about Don Bosco. Clearly they provide a service of getting kids scholarships and are quite successful at that but sometimes the way the sausage gets made isn't pretty at times as the last Don Bosco article articulated. Seems like he's just a straight business man.
The thing about Skara and even Javon is something to remember and I hope would think the coaching staff realizes this but it's definitely been brought home lately. You can't forget who else is in your players ears.
Quote from: Pgmado on March 24, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2019, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2019, 07:31:02 AM
Anyone else get sick to their stomach reading that glowing bio of Maravilla in The Times?
Ironically it was written by one Paul Oren. Quite the 180.
Story gets assigned, story gets written. Paycheck gets cashed.
You hardly have to explain yourself Paul. But thank you either way. I'd imagine (like most jobs) taking a stand only makes you the next most likely lay-off (or equivalent if you are contracted by individual articles).
QuoteStory gets assigned, story gets written. Paycheck gets cashed.
So tough questions couldn't be asked? C'mon.
What worries me is first his assistant coaches leave, now his players. Has to be some issue going on or he doesn't know how to hire. He hired his high school friend who I believe got out of coaching.
To be honest I don't care who leaves from a team who finished dead bottom two years in a row. They were not good and change was needed. For some reason no matter how this season turned out Javon had to be thinking bigger school the day he got here. Was under recruited and needed To show he was that good.
Bakari was gone after the High Point debacle where he didn't listen to Lottich and tried to win it himself. That did not
go over well between the two and his role greatly changed. While I'm not sure if true that next game he was benched and spun as an injury.
I'm very excited to see Gordon and Robinson next year. Sackey has a ton of
potential and got good playing time this year. J with not sharing playing time with Smitts will help him.
All that negativity you could see from the players during the games is now gone starting next year. Some of worst on court complaining I've ever seen and embarrassing.
Count Mid-major madness as a supporter of Lottich.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/3/28/18284083/mailbag-mid-major-final-four-vcu-ncaa-tournament-coaching-rumors
Guess what? None of this matters. MLB made that clear. What do we know, as fans? Matt's his guy. I'm going to have a very difficult time justifying forking over the money and spending my time supporting this program under his leadership. MLB's smug attitude on this situation is really unsettling. Too much talking - not enough doing. All while the program deteriorates before us as we idly sit around watching its fall.
Joke. Absolute joke. The only reason why I would continue supporting this team with my time, effort, and money is because I don't want them having the right to take away being a fan of this school.
MLB can say all he wants that Heckler is a fan of MBB. I've never seen him at a game. And it's not like he has a suite to go to and watch the games. They don't exist in our crappy arena.
Nothing worse than talking without doing. Sorry but we deserve better.
Anybody remember when Alec was given the gameball after becoming the all-time leader in scoring or something of the like? He paid NO attention to Heckler because Heckler didn't show his support to them. Same exact time we were all left in limbo as to why Jubril wasn't eligible. Remember all the Free Jubril signs? My oh my how soon we forget. On towards mediocrity. Come one, come all.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Same exact time we were all left in limbo as to why Jubril wasn't eligible. Remember all the Free Jubril signs?
Does anyone know what actually happened with the Jubril situation?
I am as critical of Heckler's talk then do nothing approach as anyone. But if you've never seen him at a game you're not looking very hard.
True. I don't actively look for him at games. I come to watch a team compete and ultimately win. Unfortunately, I end up (as of late) watching us squander leafs. And find myself sulking in my own pities .... while indulging in a cup of Culver's flavor of the day.
Depending on how bad it's going, maybe even 2 or 3 scoops haha.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 10:58:27 AMAll while the program deteriorates before us as we idly sit around watching its fall.
I feel your pain. We have had two losing seasons in a row and Matt has gone 30-35 over those two years. I can imagine what you were thinking when Homer Drew went 24-39 from 2008-2010! ::)
I appreciate what you're saying '72, and I agree it's a moot point since Lottich is clearly getting at least next year.
But I think the comparison to Homer's first few years is apples and oranges. Homer took over a fledgling DI program with zero history of success on that level. He had to lay an entire philosophical infrastructure, form recruiting ties and, as he put it, "Build a Tradition".
Oh, and he beat Notre Dame.
Pretty sure 2008-2010 weren't Homer's first couple years...
Quote from: chairback on March 24, 2019, 09:05:03 PM
What worries me is first his assistant coaches leave, now his players. Has to be some issue going on or he doesn't know how to hire. He hired his high school friend who I believe got out of coaching.
To be honest I don't care who leaves from a team who finished dead bottom two years in a row. They were not good and change was needed. For some reason no matter how this season turned out Javon had to be thinking bigger school the day he got here. Was under recruited and needed To show he was that good.
Bakari was gone after the High Point debacle where he didn't listen to Lottich and tried to win it himself. That did not go over well between the two and his role greatly changed. While I'm not sure if true that next game he was benched and spun as an injury.
I'm very excited to see Gordon and Robinson next year. Sackey has a ton of potential and got good playing time this year. J with not sharing playing time with Smitts will help him.
All that negativity you could see from the players during the games is now gone starting next year. Some of worst on court complaining I've ever seen and embarrassing.
Jay was 6-7 for 13 points in the Drake game that Smits was scratched at the last minute with back spasms (or whatever) that Matt said he didn't learn about until game time. Golder injured his leg 6 minutes in. We ended up losing 70-59. We were 5-2 coming in, and went 3-10 the rest of the way.
Again, best wishes to Smits and Golder.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Guess what? None of this matters. MLB made that clear. What do we know, as fans? Matt's his guy. I'm going to have a very difficult time justifying forking over the money and spending my time supporting this program under his leadership. MLB's smug attitude on this situation is really unsettling. Too much talking - not enough doing. All while the program deteriorates before us as we idly sit around watching its fall.
Joke. Absolute joke. The only reason why I would continue supporting this team with my time, effort, and money is because I don't want them having the right to take away being a fan of this school.
MLB can say all he wants that Heckler is a fan of MBB. I've never seen him at a game. And it's not like he has a suite to go to and watch the games. They don't exist in our crappy arena.
Nothing worse than talking without doing. Sorry but we deserve better.
Anybody remember when Alec was given the gameball after becoming the all-time leader in scoring or something of the like? He paid NO attention to Heckler because Heckler didn't show his support to them. Same exact time we were all left in limbo as to why Jubril wasn't eligible. Remember all the Free Jubril signs? My oh my how soon we forget. On towards mediocrity. Come one, come all.
What coaches in the MVC could you support? Porter Moser had his really rough stretch and judging by your metrics should have been fired, Ben Jacobson has been worse than Matt the last 3 years yet some people still think he is the best coach in the league. I really don't see anything that screams out to me that Matt is a horrible or even mediocre coach. I do think that Matt is probably the reason that Javon is leaving, but not for the reasons most seem to think. I think Javon has Matt to thank for his increased expectations and confidence that he can attain his loftier ambitions.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 10:58:27 AMGuess what? None of this matters. MLB made that clear. What do we know, as fans? Matt's his guy. I'm going to have a very difficult time justifying forking over the money and spending my time supporting this program under his leadership. MLB's smug attitude on this situation is really unsettling. Too much talking - not enough doing. All while the program deteriorates before us as we idly sit around watching its fall. Joke. Absolute joke. The only reason why I would continue supporting this team with my time, effort, and money is because I don't want them having the right to take away being a fan of this school. MLB can say all he wants that Heckler is a fan of MBB. I've never seen him at a game. And it's not like he has a suite to go to and watch the games. They don't exist in our crappy arena. Nothing worse than talking without doing. Sorry but we deserve better. Anybody remember when Alec was given the gameball after becoming the all-time leader in scoring or something of the like? He paid NO attention to Heckler because Heckler didn't show his support to them. Same exact time we were all left in limbo as to why Jubril wasn't eligible. Remember all the Free Jubril signs? My oh my how soon we forget. On towards mediocrity. Come one, come all.
This is just infantile.
What was so infantile about his comments? I thought they were valid points.
I agree that his comments were way out of line...just another example of silly and ridiculous postings on this board and subject matter that do more harm than good. These cheap shots are unnecessary and often times harmful to Valpo basketball, recruiting and the school's image. Some people need to think before opening their mouth and posting some of these child-like comments. Come on folks, we can do better!
It's kind of a chicken\eegg thing though. If the program's image and recruiting weren't being hurt by bad seasons and we were winning games and the university was showing more obvious signs of commitment on the facilities front we wouldn't have these comments. I understand the point of not making it worse but still. You reap what you sow. And the surest way to ensure that no positive change is ever made is to clam up and not make your feelings known.
All I ask is that we don't allege things that you don't actually no. If you're going to say Heckler doesn't come to the games you need to actually know stuff like that or when we project what we think onto players and staff just because we feel it to be true.
Because people will read it and think you know something and that could have an affect. For example I know when the Peters/Heckler thing happened some people wondered if it was a snub and then people close to Peters, including himself said that is not true and not what happened and that he just was super focused on the game and just literally missed Heckler when he was heading back to the team.
We just need to be careful not to project our feelings and thoughts onto other situations in a way that makes it sound like it's absolute truth.
I said I've never seen him at a game and later that I don't actively look for him. That's all.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 28, 2019, 10:36:38 PMWhat was so infantile about his comments? I thought they were valid points.
Heckler not being at games, whatever his thoughts are about Peters and Heckler, Jubril's status being publicly defined are all legit?
Not to mention the fact that the poster is beyond repetitive in his comments made basically in the same fashion as Herman Munster. "Darn! Darn! Darn!" IOW infantile.
There are plenty of posters who criticize the program and coach without coming across in the same tedious fashion.
If you don't actively look for him then maybe you shouldn't use the example that you never see him at a game and imply that you would have since he wouldn't be in a suite as an example of evidence that he does not care about the program in one of your rants. That's the point I was making.
What is sadly overlooked on this thread is the poetic brilliance of Native Cheesehead's post several days ago.
No love for his rendition of new lyrics of "American Pie" ? I think he's too cynical, but it is nicely done. :lol: :thumbsup:
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 28, 2019, 11:45:45 AM
I am as critical of Heckler's talk then do nothing approach as anyone. But if you've never seen him at a game you're not looking very hard.
I come all the way from Indy and I've seen Heckler at one of the home games I attended in Valpo.
I also saw Heckler at the Friday game at the Enterprise Center in St Louis against Loyola. As a Valpo fan who was also there I think that shows some dedication to the MBB program. Which is more than many fans on this message board who didn't show up in St Louis.
Also what the heck does this paragraph mean?
QuoteJoke. Absolute joke. The only reason why I would continue supporting this team with my time, effort, and money is because I don't want them having the right to take away being a fan of this school.
Doesn't make any sense to me.