see you there. will be a good test.
just wanted to start thread
Quote from: talksalot on November 28, 2019, 09:34:46 AM
see you there. will be a good test.
just wanted to start thread
You could do Buckeyes vs Wolverines at the Big House and 3 days later do Valpo at Emus 12 miles away. Ain't life fantastic. With the 3 extra days you got the Red Wings.........awful, never mind.......Spurs at Pistons, Sunday Dec. 1 and you might as well throw in a minor league hockey game at Port Huron, Windsor or Sarnia (take your passport and tell the customs guy you going to see hockey. They will love it!).
EDIT: Saturday night, 7:00 p.m. Niagara Ice Hogs at Windsor Spitfires in the WFCU Centre. Port Huron Prowlers and Sarnia Sting are both out of town on long bus rides.
three of my grandchildren were born in the hospital across from the emu convocation center... and live 10 minutes away. got plenty to do.
daughter used to work at umich. other daughter works at Ohio State.
Son in law went to UMich. other son in law went to THE Ohio State.
we do avoid family gatherings on this Saturday.
they are 3-0... will have more stats after they travel 3 time zones to play UC Irvine on Saturday night.
Valpo 78
EMU 69
EMU hasn't beaten anyone at this point, that is worth noting. They are 6-0, but 3 of those are against non-D1. They've also barely escaped NC A&T and UMBC, while beating UNT. I think that UNT is down this year, versus prior years of success.
We need to expose their slow pace of play and force them to be completely uncomfortable. Defense needs to start our tempo.
Valpo 80
EMU 70
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Quote from: covufan on November 28, 2019, 03:47:17 PMDefense needs to start our tempo.
Defense hasn't exactly been our strong point.............sorry to be the debbie downer. But giving up 71 to a much smaller Trinity Christian is not exactly lock down D.
Quote from: bbtds on November 29, 2019, 06:07:02 AM
Quote from: covufan on November 28, 2019, 03:47:17 PMDefense needs to start our tempo.
Defense hasn't exactly been our strong point.............sorry to be the debbie downer. But giving up 71 to a much smaller Trinity Christian is not exactly lock down D.
100% agree here, well said. What in your estimation are one or two contributing factors? I think we're giving them the lane on drives by playing a lot of man-2-man. Half expecting we will block their drive and, well....we aren't prolific in blocks.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 29, 2019, 07:24:15 AM
Quote from: bbtds on November 29, 2019, 06:07:02 AM
Quote from: covufan on November 28, 2019, 03:47:17 PMDefense needs to start our tempo.
Defense hasn't exactly been our strong point.............sorry to be the debbie downer. But giving up 71 to a much smaller Trinity Christian is not exactly lock down D.
100% agree here, well said. What in your estimation are one or two contributing factors? I think we're giving them the lane on drives by playing a lot of man-2-man. Half expecting we will block their drive and, well....we aren't prolific in blocks.
Not sure. Maybe thinking about breaking down the court a bit too early? Hope Matt can figure it out before the Loyola game. Krutwig will have a humdinger against us if we don't figure it out.
Quote from: bbtds on November 29, 2019, 06:07:02 AM
Quote from: covufan on November 28, 2019, 03:47:17 PMDefense needs to start our tempo.
Defense hasn't exactly been our strong point.............sorry to be the debbie downer. But giving up 71 to a much smaller Trinity Christian is not exactly lock down D.
Agreed, that is why I'm saying we need our defense to step up and start our tempo with this game against a slower tempo team.
71 points in 80 possessions isn't too awful, but against a non-division I team I would expect a little better results. Our best games defensively have been North Dakota and Cincinnati. We need more games like those.
Quote from: bbtds on November 29, 2019, 08:20:48 AM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 29, 2019, 07:24:15 AM
Quote from: bbtds on November 29, 2019, 06:07:02 AM
Quote from: covufan on November 28, 2019, 03:47:17 PMDefense needs to start our tempo.
Defense hasn't exactly been our strong point.............sorry to be the debbie downer. But giving up 71 to a much smaller Trinity Christian is not exactly lock down D.
100% agree here, well said. What in your estimation are one or two contributing factors? I think we're giving them the lane on drives by playing a lot of man-2-man. Half expecting we will block their drive and, well....we aren't prolific in blocks.
Not sure. Maybe thinking about breaking down the court a bit too early? Hope Matt can figure it out before the Loyola game. Krutwig will have a humdinger against us if we don't figure it out.
Smits and Sorolla collectively stunk up the place in all 3 Loyola losses last year. Anyone we play at the 5 will care more than Smits and have more ability than Sorolla.
I think what most are missing in the "defense" conversation is that the defensive emphasis has changed. In the past we ran a much more deliberate offense and an interior, almost pack line, centric defense. Our pace has increased and our defense has become a more perimeter "gambling" style defense. Hence the 70 steals in 8 games putting us in the top 20 in steals. This is a 43% increase from last years numbers (yes this is a small sample size). We are also creating 17.5 turnovers per game, a much higher rate than last year. So as with most things, with the good comes the bad and when you gamble on the perimeter it many times leads to easier interior shots.
I expect that as these young men play more together the interior defense will improve, at least let's hope so.
Quote from: wh on November 29, 2019, 04:09:48 PMSmits and Sorolla collectively stunk up the place in all 3 Loyola losses last year. Anyone we play at the 5 will care more than Smits and have more ability than Sorolla.
I don't know if beating a dead horse is a criminal act but if it is wh would be convicted and sentenced to community service. ;) Mileek played his best center position minutes last year at the ARC vs Loyola . He actually looked good and got our hopes up!
Quote from: FWalum on November 29, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
I think what most are missing in the "defense" conversation is that the defensive emphasis has changed. In the past we ran a much more deliberate offense and an interior, almost pack line, centric defense. Our pace has increased and our defense has become a more perimeter "gambling" style defense. Hence the 70 steals in 8 games putting us in the top 20 in steals. This is a 43% increase from last years numbers (yes this is a small sample size). We are also creating 17.5 turnovers per game, a much higher rate than last year. So as with most things, with the good comes the bad and when you gamble on the perimeter it many times leads to easier interior shots.
I expect that as these young men play more together the interior defense will improve, at least let's hope so.
Our new defensive emphasis and offensive attack style are much better suited to an athletic McMillan than a Sorolla or Smits. I think our days of recruiting backstop centers with no outside shot potential are gone!
Quote from: bbtds on November 29, 2019, 06:07:02 AM
Quote from: covufan on November 28, 2019, 03:47:17 PMDefense needs to start our tempo.
Defense hasn't exactly been our strong point.............sorry to be the debbie downer. But giving up 71 to a much smaller Trinity Christian is not exactly lock down D.
Didn't see or hear the game but Coach did say that he didn't hit the pillow the night before till 2. I would think the travel, delays and not exactly excited about playing an NAIA team might have contributed to the effort.
As for our players being better or worse than Smits and Sorolla, the point at least for the moment is moot. I don't think Smits has even played all season--presumed injured-- and J hasn't played in the last 3 games so also, presumably, is also injured.
Yeah the timing of this game was weird. Would think it would make more sense for it to be a final tune up before conference. If we can't dictate dates to an NAIA school then why are we even playing them?
Quote from: justducky on November 29, 2019, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: wh on November 29, 2019, 04:09:48 PMSmits and Sorolla collectively stunk up the place in all 3 Loyola losses last year. Anyone we play at the 5 will care more than Smits and have more ability than Sorolla.
I don't know if beating a dead horse is a criminal act but if it is wh would be convicted and sentenced to community service. ;)
Guilty as charged. I have a long memory for disloyalty, as in Smits telling fellow players as early as January that he was out of here, and Sorolla telling Matt at the end of the season that he might or might not return depending on who might be interested in his services.
So they're gone. In the words of my favorite insects: "Let It Be".
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 29, 2019, 09:52:57 PM
So they're gone. In the words of my favorite insects: "Let It Be".
This is about a girl Marie that lived in a yellow flooded house.
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2016/10/09
Quote from: vu72 on November 29, 2019, 07:18:50 PMAs for our players being better or worse than Smits and Sorolla, the point at least for the moment is moot. I don't think Smits has even played all season--presumed injured-- and J hasn't played in the last 3 games so also, presumably, is also injured.
Sorolla has a foot/ankle injury and Smits has a knee issue and has not played any regular season games. However, Smits just being on the roster has propelled Butler to a 7-0 start.
QuoteHowever, Smits just being on the roster has propelled Butler to a 7-0 start.
What? Surely you jest. Just sit Michael Jordan on their bench and they'll win the championship this year. :crazy:
Quote from: Just Sayin on November 30, 2019, 02:51:37 PMQuoteHowever, Smits just being on the roster has propelled Butler to a 7-0 start.
What? Surely you jest. Just sit Michael Jordan on their bench and they'll win the championship this year. :crazy:
But how else can one justify a 7-0 start for Butler? His intimidating presence on the bench scares the opposing team out of at least 15 to 20 points per game. ;)
IRVINE, Calif. (EMUEagles.com) – The Eastern Michigan University men's basketball team dropped its first decision of the 2019-20 campaign, falling to the University of California Irvine, 77-56, in non-conference action tonight, Nov. 30. The Anteaters (5-4) used hot three-point shooting to put the Eagles (6-1) away, as UCI connected on 14-of-32 attempts from downtown.
The Eagles played catch up for most of the first half after surrendering a two-point lead early, but went on a 5-0 run to close out the first half and bring the score to within six, 33-27. Redshirt senior Boubacar Toure 7-0" 240lb (Dakar, Senegal-Phase One Academy (Grand Canyon)) led the Green and White with nine points in the half. The Dakar, Senegal native also grabbed eight rebounds, had two blocks and a steal in the first 20 minutes of play. Redshirt junior Ty Groce (Ypsilanti-Mich.-Lincoln) had seven points of his own. Eastern was able to force UC Irvine into 12 turnovers, and scored capitalized off those turnovers with 16 points. The Anteaters forced EMU into seven turnovers that only results in six points for UCI.
The second half was not friendlier to Eastern as UC Irvine caught fire from downtown, shooting 50 percent in the second half to Eastern's 15.4 percent. The hot-shooting of the Anteaters sparked a 20-4 run that saw EMU down by 20 with five minutes left in the game. Freshman Shamar Dillard (South Bend, Ind.-Riley) hit back-to-back threes with two minutes left, but the Eagles were not able to comeback. Toure finished the contest with 14 points and 12 rebounds for his eleventh career double-double, his third on the year. Junior Chris Barnes (Compton, Cali-Compton (Tulsa)) scored 10 points on 50 percent shooting from the field. Groce also finished the game with 10 points, going 5-of-9 from the charity stripe.
EMU was outshot in the contest, 30.5 to 49.1 from the field and 15.8 to 43.8 from three, as well as being outrebounded, 44-34. The Eagles finished the day with 17 turnovers to UC Irvine's 15, and four steals to UCI's 10. The Green and White outscored the Anteaters in the paint 28-26 but were not able to get the ball moving, as they gathered only four assists to their 20.
The Eagles return home to the Convocation Center as they welcome Valparaiso University Tuesday, Dec. 3, at 7 p.m. Fans can watch the contest on ESPN+, or listen on WEMU (89.1 FM). To stay up to date with everything EMU Men's Hoops, checkout EMUEagles.com or follow @EMUHoops on Twitter.
====================
Here's the box score...
https://emueagles.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2019-20/uc-irvine/boxscore/11316
I'm hoping Mileek can muscle up their big guy. They have an active 9-player rotation...
Quote from: VUBBFan on December 01, 2019, 12:01:50 AMQuote from: Just Sayin on November 30, 2019, 02:51:37 PMQuoteHowever, Smits just being on the roster has propelled Butler to a 7-0 start.
What? Surely you jest. Just sit Michael Jordan on their bench and they'll win the championship this year. :crazy:
But how else can one justify a 7-0 start for Butler? His intimidating presence on the bench scares the opposing team out of at least 15 to 20 points per game. ;)
Whew! Glad you haven't lost it. ;D
Has anyone heard about Fazekas' injury or when he might return? It is hard to believe that no info has come forward or leaked out.
Quote from: valpo64 on December 01, 2019, 12:14:47 PMHas anyone heard about Fazekas' injury or when he might return? It is hard to believe that no info has come forward or leaked out.
Word is he injured himself sneezing hard and is done for the season.
I would suggest that without any specific knowledge to the contrary, Fazekas (like any other player) wants to do everything that he can to get back on the court. Further, I would suggest that he is probably very frustrated by the injuries that prevent him from contributing to the team (and a promising team, at that). Give the guy a break and don't take cheap shots.
Quote from: vu84v2 on December 01, 2019, 02:05:29 PM
I would suggest that without any specific knowledge to the contrary, Fazekas (like any other player) wants to do everything that he can to get back on the court. Further, I would suggest that he is probably very frustrated by the injuries that prevent him from contributing to the team (and a promising team, at that). Give the guy a break and don't take cheap shots.
I don't think I would ever define an attempt at humor as being a cheap shot. I wasn't offended (I chuckled) and I doubt that Ryan was either.
Quote from: justducky on December 01, 2019, 02:27:40 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on December 01, 2019, 02:05:29 PM
I would suggest that without any specific knowledge to the contrary, Fazekas (like any other player) wants to do everything that he can to get back on the court. Further, I would suggest that he is probably very frustrated by the injuries that prevent him from contributing to the team (and a promising team, at that). Give the guy a break and don't take cheap shots.
I don't think I would ever define an attempt at humor as being a cheap shot. I wasn't offended (I chuckled) and I doubt that Ryan was either.
You make a good point and perhaps I misread the intentions in the comment.
Quote from: valpo64 on December 01, 2019, 12:14:47 PM
Has anyone heard about Fazekas' injury or when he might return? It is hard to believe that no info has come forward or leaked out.
I thought I saw 6-8 weeks in an article.
KenPom has this game as 70-66, in favor of EMU. Valpo is averaging 78 ppg, so I don't see EMU holding them to 66.
Regarding the Fazekas injury, you say you thought you saw an article saying 6-8 weeks? From when or when would you expect his return?
Quote from: valpo64 on December 02, 2019, 09:44:46 AM
Regarding the Fazekas injury, you say you thought you saw an article saying 6-8 weeks? From when or when would you expect his return?
As I understood it he was injured during the Toledo game on Nov. 5. Then a week later a story said it was 6 to 8 weeks. Therefore Ryan might be back between Dec. 30 and Jan. 13, 2020.
Using no logic whatsoever, I would predict a January 18th return against Indiana State giving him about 7 weeks before Arch Madness. Perhaps everyone buys a square for $10, winner takes the pot?
EMU sits at -2.5 while Valpo is +125 on the money line. O/U in 131. Take Valpo at +3 and the over is my guess...Wish I could watch this one but alas I'll be coaching. Replay it is. I always tell myself I wont check the score but always do...
That's what I played too. Valpo ML and the over.
Quote from: M on December 03, 2019, 12:14:40 PMThat's what I played too. Valpo ML and the over.
Nice, man the O/U dropped to 130, I know EMU is holding teams to 55 but they played mostly questionable teams. If it stays under 130 somehow it will be because EMUs offense doesn't do much and not because they stop our offense. They wont be able to handle the Sackey/Freeman transition prowess :o ??? . If we score less than 60 don't scold me.
My parlay for the day
Valpo: +4WKU: -2 at Wright St.Mizzou: -24 against Charleston Southern
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on December 03, 2019, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: M on December 03, 2019, 12:14:40 PMThat's what I played too. Valpo ML and the over.
Nice, man the O/U dropped to 130, I know EMU is holding teams to 55 but they played mostly questionable teams. If it stays under 130 somehow it will be because EMUs offense doesn't do much and not because they stop our offense. They wont be able to handle the Sackey/Freeman transition prowess :o ??? . If we score less than 60 don't scold me.
My parlay for the day
Valpo: +4WKU: -2 at Wright St.Mizzou: -24 against Charleston Southern
And that's why they call it
GAMBLING and why it's not a good thing to do on a regular basis unless, of course, you are extremely skilled at the game you play at such as is our beloved VU play-by-play radio man, Todd Ickow.
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on December 03, 2019, 02:58:39 PMQuote from: M on Today at 12:14:40 PM
That's what I played too. Valpo ML and the over.
Nice, man the O/U dropped to 130, I know EMU is holding teams to 55 but they played mostly questionable teams. If it stays under 130 somehow it will be because EMUs offense doesn't do much and not because they stop our offense. They wont be able to handle the Sackey/Freeman transition prowess . If we score less than 60 don't scold me.
My parlay for the day
Valpo: +4WKU: -2 at Wright St.Mizzou: -24 against Charleston Southern
I took the over at 129 - I've done well taking the over on most Valpo games so far this season
Where is everyone? I see 6 Valpo fans behind the bench in gold and maybe 50 more fans in Green. Are they all sitting on the camera side of the court :snore: This makes attendance at The Athletic Recreational Center look great!
So tired of watching Sackey make bad pass after bad pass.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 03, 2019, 06:30:44 PM
So tired of watching Sackey make bad pass after bad pass.
And everyone else, too...
Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
If we're going to shoot our way out of this zone, they'd better start looking for Sig. He's been wide open in the corner countless times.
Our defense is h*ckin' awful, almost as bad as our passing. If we can't play defense, we're a Thursday team for sure.
But what really gets me is that, to my eye, we're giving partial effort. Guess the guys had a lot of laundry to do after the trip to the Virgin Islands.
How is Kiser the only Valpo defender who prevents most dribble drives?
Not good. We know the team can go on runs and make comebacks...we'll see if they turn it around.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 03, 2019, 06:41:36 PM
How is Kiser the only Valpo defender who prevents most dribble drives?
They're playing Spanish defense. ¡Olé!
Quote from: VUSL98 on December 03, 2019, 06:32:27 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 03, 2019, 06:30:44 PM
So tired of watching Sackey make bad pass after bad pass.
And everyone else, too...
Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
I thought Sackey looked tremendous the 1st few games of the season. The last 3 D1 games... Not so much.
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on December 03, 2019, 06:50:31 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 03, 2019, 06:41:36 PM
How is Kiser the only Valpo defender who prevents most dribble drives?
They're playing Spanish defense. ¡Olé!
matador defense (mat'-uh-dor' de'-fens) noun.
A lackluster, low-effort form of defense in which the defender simply reaches for the ball and then quickly pulls his hand away -- similar to how a matador pulls his cape out of the way of a charging bull -- as the offensive player drives by him for an easy shot at the hoop.
Quote from: VALPO LI on December 03, 2019, 06:20:29 PM
Where is everyone? I see 6 Valpo fans behind the bench in gold and maybe 50 more fans in Green. Are they all sitting on the camera side of the court :snore: This makes attendance at The Athletic Recreational Center look great!
there were 74 people in the seats opposite the scorers table. no band. less than 1500 total. they are blaming the Michigan Louisville game. they introduced 62 spring letter winners at halftime. they left.
now. what can we do against the zone
It would be helpful if the guy with the 3-3's snaps out of his trance before the 2nd half. We can't afford to have an average Joe have a career night.
Our defensive FG% and 3Pt% have been really bad this year, especially when compared to previous seasons. Not sure what the problem is, as this is a talented and athletic team.
I doubt that EMU will continue with 59% FG and 56% from 3point land in the second half. We need to be ready and make some runs.
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on December 03, 2019, 06:50:31 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 03, 2019, 06:41:36 PM
How is Kiser the only Valpo defender who prevents most dribble drives?
They're playing Spanish defense. ¡Olé!
https://youtu.be/4ccUDrB_8jQ
I think D. Clay could be a big answer for Valpo against any team who plays zone against us. Big body with a bounce that will only get better and has shown flashes of being able to hit the midrange shot. Has had several really good plays being the guy who gets the ball at the free throw line to break up the zone.
We'll probably be playing the will he or won't he transfer game with JFL every year. (My guess is he's a grad transfer) But if he stays all four he's an all time Valpo great.
I'm pleased with the effort but wonder if we don't put ourselves in bad defensive position going for all these steals? Sorta live by die by...
EMU isn't going to win this game. But Valpo is going to lose it.
Another candidate for worst loss of the last 20 seasons. EMU is regularly one of the worst basketball programs in the country, and I didn't see anything today that would tell me that they won't be bottom of the MAC. Bad loss, up there with UC-Riverside from a few seasons back.
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on December 03, 2019, 06:50:31 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 03, 2019, 06:41:36 PM
How is Kiser the only Valpo defender who prevents most dribble drives?
They're playing Spanish defense. ¡Olé!
Sorolla transfers and now we play Spanish defense?
EMU was picked to finish second to last in the MAC. I fear this is one of those Bad Losses that you read about.
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on December 03, 2019, 07:59:10 PM
EMU was picked to finish second to last in the MAC. I fear this is one of those Bad Losses that you read about.
And we were picked 9th in the Valley. With our poor defense at the rim, poor FT shooting and turnovers we didn't deserve a win.
Nice to see them get back in the game and even take the lead for a while but just couldn't keep them down. Too many mistakes and missed free throws in in crunch time. Hope to finish better against Central Michigan.
Freeman is a stud...after him the talent falls off a cliff. I'm not saying our crusaders don't hustle...they just aren't real talented.
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Tough to win games giving up FG of 61% and 3Pts of 56%. For the season we are ranked 340th in defensive FG%. Something needs to change.
The Matt Lottich era has been defined by one 10 minute stretch every single game that makes you want to scream. The rest of the game is just whether or not we can overcome that. Most nights we cannot.
Quote from: govalpogo on December 03, 2019, 06:50:02 PM
Not good. We know the team can go on runs and make comebacks...we'll see if they turn it around.
Well...they did. It's hard to believe that I'm saying they blew this game...but that's what I'm saying.
Could you imagine if we didn't have JFL? Valpo is a one trick pony
The coach is not doing a good job teaching defense. We are almost at the bottom in the conference. C'mon, we've got some athletes in there.
This game was lost in the first half on turnovers and in the second half when we couldn't put them away when we had the 66-62 lead. The Sackey alley-opp attempt to JFL was stupidity.
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We are doomed. Freeman will be gone after this year if not then the year after leaving us with a few years developing him with nothing to show for it except some losing season. Clay will probably be gone too. We have a fantastic roster and a fantastic recruiting class coming in next year, but it doesn't matter. We have seen the same problems every year under lottich and they haven't been fixed, whether it was with a good roster or bad. The problem is that we get rid of the common denominator, coach lottich, then we also get rid of his recruiting. He's a great recruiter and I don't think anybody else would be able to get some of the talent he has gotten to come to a university that is sinking fast, has no students coming to the games, and fills 1/5 of the stadium. But he is not a good coach coach.
I haven't watched any games this year, and I get most of my intelligence through this board. Some comments suggest lack of talent (after JFL) and some suggest coaching issues. I have no idea. Is the truth somewhere in the middle? We have a long way to go until Arch Madness, so I will try to enjoy the ride. As if we can do anything else.
Game preparedness has been awful. Have the roster to compete but consistently have have come out of the gate slow, played catch up the whole game, turned the ball over, and have looked bad on defense despite having the talent to be a good defensive team. Don't really know what the solution for this is at this point. Lottich has had 4 years to fix this and hasn't been able to. But if we get rid of him we lose the roster
Despite the hard fought loss, I still love this team.
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 03, 2019, 08:56:34 PM
Despite the hard fought loss, I still love this team.
I agree wholeheartedly. It's way too soon for gloom and doom.
Vegas usually gives correct value on teams. EMU was supposed to win by 2. Valpo fans have expectations that we would win. Vegas was more realistic and took the fanatic part out of the equation.
No way this was anywhere close to as bad of a loss as UC-Riverside.
I as a fan expect our program to beat EMU on the road. Vegas who is more realistic did not.
Quote from: vok22 on December 03, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
We are doomed. Freeman will be gone after this year if not then the year after leaving us with a few years developing him with nothing to show for it except some losing season. Clay will probably be gone too. We have a fantastic roster and a fantastic recruiting class coming in next year, but it doesn't matter. We have seen the same problems every year under lottich and they haven't been fixed, whether it was with a good roster or bad. The problem is that we get rid of the common denominator, coach lottich, then we also get rid of his recruiting. He's a great recruiter and I don't think anybody else would be able to get some of the talent he has gotten to come to a university that is sinking fast, has no students coming to the games, and fills 1/5 of the stadium. But he is not a good coach coach.
Why do the gloom and doomers always come out of the woodwork now?
I think this last stretch of games has showed us what our strengths and weaknesses are but I'm not too upset about his loss. The team has not had lots of practice time since returning from the Paradise Jam and having Thanksgiving Break. I'm hoping this next stretch of four days will allow them to regroup and focus on the specific things they are struggling with to help them prepare for Sunday.
Quote from: vok22 on December 03, 2019, 08:44:02 PM
Game preparedness has been awful. Have the roster to compete but consistently have have come out of the gate slow, played catch up the whole game, turned the ball over, and have looked bad on defense despite having the talent to be a good defensive team. Don't really know what the solution for this is at this point. Lottich has had 4 years to fix this and hasn't been able to. But if we get rid of him we lose the roster
Consider what this game provided us in regards to the future. We learned that Krikke and Clay (freshmen) are very likely able to provide the future offense that our team so badly needs and that in a crunch time environment while being guarded by taller players they both thrived. It's quite early for you to be so negative on a team that is 5-4 and only truly had (2) bad games and (7) solid games (SLU and Nevada).
Moral victories suck, as do moral loses. I will gladly give our offense time to develop with so many new (positive) pieces but man alive our defense is a liability. EMU is horrible offensively and average somewhere around 60-65 ppg and here we let them score 85. THAT is a problem for this team.
Way too early to push the doom and gloom button on the season. Still a lot of young guys that the team needs consistency from, and that is a tough ask early on in the season. As long as the effort is there, I think this is a group that can finish in the upper half of the MVC.
I also wouldn't worry about JFL transferring after this year either. He didn't want to sit out a year last year when he considered it, and he's the guy on a team that should be pretty darn good next year.
I, like most everyone else saw a team still in the process of learning. Much upside, no doubt. The defense was atrocious and the zone befuddled us. Still there were many bright spots. Kiser has developed a decent 3 point shot, Mileek looked very good (at times), our freshman continue to develop nicely and Sigurd is getting more playing time--and shooting the lights out.
I was disappointing to see us fight back, take the lead and then fold our tent. We need to find better ways to close out games and that will come with practice. We should be as good as we can be by conference and perhaps Ryan will be back by then as well.
One last thought: What is up with Eron and Zion? They are total non-factors which is surprising.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 03, 2019, 08:07:30 PM
The coach is not doing a good job teaching defense. We are almost at the bottom in the conference. C'mon, we've got some athletes in there.
Matt's teams have consistently been very good defensive teams. We are playing a different style that has created more steals and opposition turnovers, but the gambling that is occurring is chiefly responsible for the easy buckets. This happens when defensive rotations are not second nature to the players. I expect this to improve as the year goes on because in general Matt has been a good defensive coach. We are significantly above last years steals and opp turnover numbers, but we don't have the rim protector.
Quote from: bbtds on December 03, 2019, 08:01:47 PMQuote from: PlumStreetBum on December 03, 2019, 07:59:10 PMEMU was picked to finish second to last in the MAC. I fear this is one of those Bad Losses that you read about.
And we were picked 9th in the Valley. With our poor defense at the rim, poor FT shooting and turnovers we didn't deserve a win.
Spot on!!! I feel we have very high expectations of this team since we played well in November 5-3 with wins over Toledo and GCU and a close one with Cincy. (I am definitely one to put this team on a higher pedestal). At the end of the day though we were projected to place 9th in the Valley and anything better technically is an improvement. I still feel this team has great talent and potential and will surprise a lot of us fans down the road this season.
Quote from: vok22 on December 03, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
We are doomed. Freeman will be gone after this year if not then the year after leaving us with a few years developing him with nothing to show for it except some losing season. Clay will probably be gone too. We have a fantastic roster and a fantastic recruiting class coming in next year, but it doesn't matter. We have seen the same problems every year under lottich and they haven't been fixed, whether it was with a good roster or bad. The problem is that we get rid of the common denominator, coach lottich, then we also get rid of his recruiting. He's a great recruiter and I don't think anybody else would be able to get some of the talent he has gotten to come to a university that is sinking fast, has no students coming to the games, and fills 1/5 of the stadium. But he is not a good coach coach.
1. We scored nearly 80 points against the Zone... IMPROVEMENT over past Lottich coached teams.
2. Defense was never a problem the last 3 years... by definition a NEW problem, not the "SAME PROBLEMS EVERY YEAR"
We are a team of Freshman and Sophomores, combined with a project Junior(McMillan), and another Junior who sat out an entire season(Robinson), and a former walk-on(Kiser). Just relax! Emotional responses like this are beyond infuriating.
I think we were a much better team than EMU. I thought we outplayed them for about 30 minutes, but the 10 minutes we were outplayed was REALLY bad. We lost this game because of defense and this is the 1st year defense has been an issue under Lottich.
Quote from: FWalum on December 04, 2019, 10:32:02 AMQuote from: Just Sayin on December 03, 2019, 08:07:30 PMThe coach is not doing a good job teaching defense. We are almost at the bottom in the conference. C'mon, we've got some athletes in there.
Matt's teams have consistently been very good defensive teams. We are playing a different style that has created more steals and opposition turnovers, but the gambling that is occurring is chiefly responsible for the easy buckets. This happens when defensive rotations are not second nature to the players. I expect this to improve as the year goes on because in general Matt has been a good defensive coach. We are significantly above last years steals and opp turnover numbers, but we don't have the rim protector.
Some of that may be true. However, we rank 319th out of 353 teams in defending the 3P shot and 327th out of 353 in defending the 2P shot. That has little to do with the changes you mention.
Very good points, Sanity, but it does echo something I said above. The team playing like complete garbage for 8-10 minutes every game (mostly at the beginning) is NOT a new problem, it's been a staple of the last 3 years. It's not all on Lottich of course, but it is something that needs to be addressed. Every team is going to have some bad stretches of play from time to time, but it does seem like they are much more frequent now.
And while defense is a new problem, after 10 games against a mediocre schedule we're #246 in defensive effeciency and #342 in defensive fg%. That's awful. Hardly an emotional response. (Doomed is a bit much, I'll agree)
The ones who are worried about JFL transferring need to slow down. Where would JFL go that will allow him to put up as many shots as he has? Hes one of the most used players in the NCAA, he's not giving that up to go somewhere else.
Quote from: FWalum on December 04, 2019, 10:32:02 AMMatt's teams have consistently been very good defensive teams. We are playing a different style that has created more steals and opposition turnovers, but the gambling that is occurring is chiefly responsible for the easy buckets. This happens when defensive rotations are not second nature to the players. I expect this to improve as the year goes on because in general Matt has been a good defensive coach. We are significantly above last years steals and opp turnover numbers, but we don't have the rim protector.
Not only do we not have a rim protector but that type of player would be a misfit in our new offensive scheme! Even Vashil Fernandez would not be a good fit at center for this new style of play. So what type of center would be? Glad you asked! David Skara at Clemson could still run the floor, handle the ball and shoot the 3 while being forced to take over big minutes at the 5. Potentially Freese-Villien and especially Ben Krikke could develop into exactly that type of player but probably not this season.
This team has been much more entertaining. I still suspect they will finish close to .500. I posted a while back that I thought we would score plenty of points, but wasn't sure about stopping anyone else from scoring. Are we taking too many chances going for steals instead of staying in front of people? Just in bad position?
I also didn't watch the game but did listen to a few parts and sounded like they were working the ball around the perimeter and wouldn't get in the paint until late in the shot clock. That will have to change if they are going to see zone defenses.
Excited to see them back in Valpo on Sunday.
Quote from: justducky on December 04, 2019, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: FWalum on December 04, 2019, 10:32:02 AMMatt's teams have consistently been very good defensive teams. We are playing a different style that has created more steals and opposition turnovers, but the gambling that is occurring is chiefly responsible for the easy buckets. This happens when defensive rotations are not second nature to the players. I expect this to improve as the year goes on because in general Matt has been a good defensive coach. We are significantly above last years steals and opp turnover numbers, but we don't have the rim protector.
Not only do we not have a rim protector but that type of player would be a misfit in our new offensive scheme! Even Vashil Fernandez would not be a good fit at center for this new style of play. So what type of center would be? Glad you asked! David Skara at Clemson could still run the floor, handle the ball and shoot the 3 while being forced to take over big minutes at the 5. Potentially Freese-Villien and especially Ben Krikke could develop into exactly that type of player but probably not this season.
Martin Linssen is starting and doing well for UNCW :-). He was a pretty mobile 5.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 11:03:56 AMSome of that may be true. However, we rank 319th out of 353 teams in defending the 3P shot and 327th out of 353 in defending the 2P shot. That has little to do with the changes you mention.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 11:03:56 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 03, 2019, 08:07:30 PMThe coach is not doing a good job teaching defense. We are almost at the bottom in the conference. C'mon, we've got some athletes in there.
Matt's teams have consistently been very good defensive teams. We are playing a different style that has created more steals and opposition turnovers, but the gambling that is occurring is chiefly responsible for the easy buckets. This happens when defensive rotations are not second nature to the players. I expect this to improve as the year goes on because in general Matt has been a good defensive coach. We are significantly above last years steals and opp turnover numbers, but we don't have the rim protector.
Humm... So you don't think that perimeter gambling results in easy lanes to the basket??? And you also don't think that poor defensive rotation doesn't result in open perimeter shots??? That's interesting.... I guess I had it all wrong all these years of coaching.
Quote from: valpotx on December 04, 2019, 02:09:32 PMMartin Linssen is starting and doing well for UNCW :-). He was a pretty mobile 5.
Really? :o I see that UNCW will play @ Charlotte on Sat Dec 7 at 1:00. I'll try to watch some of it both to evaluate his improvement and to scout the 49ers.
Quote from: FWalum on December 04, 2019, 02:11:54 PMHumm... So you don't think that perimeter gambling results in easy lanes to the basket??? And you also don't think that poor defensive rotation doesn't result in open perimeter shots??? That's interesting.... I guess I had it all wrong all these years of coaching.
Well-l-l-l now that you have admitted it, we will forever ignore you the future. ;)
Quote from: FWalum on December 04, 2019, 02:11:54 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 11:03:56 AMSome of that may be true. However, we rank 319th out of 353 teams in defending the 3P shot and 327th out of 353 in defending the 2P shot. That has little to do with the changes you mention.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 11:03:56 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 03, 2019, 08:07:30 PMThe coach is not doing a good job teaching defense. We are almost at the bottom in the conference. C'mon, we've got some athletes in there.
Matt's teams have consistently been very good defensive teams. We are playing a different style that has created more steals and opposition turnovers, but the gambling that is occurring is chiefly responsible for the easy buckets. This happens when defensive rotations are not second nature to the players. I expect this to improve as the year goes on because in general Matt has been a good defensive coach. We are significantly above last years steals and opp turnover numbers, but we don't have the rim protector.
Humm... So you don't think that perimeter gambling results in easy lanes to the basket??? And you also don't think that poor defensive rotation doesn't result in open perimeter shots??? That's interesting.... I guess I had it all wrong all these years of coaching.
No, I said some of what you said may be correct but that this doesn't completely explain why Valpo is among the worst of 353 teams in defending the 2 and 3 point shots being made by our opponents. Not every possession is of the kind you present. There are many more possessions where our defense is set and ready than in those situations you claim are the sole reason for poor defense.
What did Sackey say in Oren's article about allowing E.Mich to make their shots? This wasn't an issue of trying to steal the ball and failing thus leading to an open drive to the basket. It was defending the shots and playing smothering defense on the ball.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 04:12:46 PM
What did Sackey say in Oren's article about allowing E.Mich to make their shots? This wasn't an issue of trying to steal the ball and failing thus leading to an open drive to the basket. It was defending the shots and playing smothering defense on the ball.
Todd Ickow made the point on the radio call that Groce exclusively drove to his right and yet our defender didn't anticipate this action. It's the little things such as that combined with missing a steal and leaving the 2nd and 3rd pass three point shooter wide open. Combined with not picking up the hot hand around the 3 point line from NBA distance. Combined with over helping and trying to cut off the drive and leaving your guy open for a layup / dunk. And the fact that the Center (McMillan, Krikke, Freese or Kiser have to rotate because the G was beat off the dribble.
Defense is all the little things and need done and done consistently or else the 3rd pass will kill you every time. Either way, I played basketball through 9th grade and no further. What I know is simply observational and not in practice.
Note: I was extremely proud of our defense in stretches, we have the ability I just don't know how that is fixed. I suspect as soon as one aspect of their defense is honed, another hole opens up. Game experience is all that is going to help this young team play together on defense. I always hear pundits argue that offense comes with familiarity and cohesion takes time. Why is defense that much different?
If your primary defensive strategy is to create turnovers and steals I would ask what is and has been the cost/benefit of such a strategy. How many of those turnovers or steals that actually occurred led to a scoring opportunity for us? Contrast that with the number of missed steals and easy driving buckets made by the opponent. Perhaps they are scoring on balance more than we are in these situations because I'm guessing that missed steals are way more common than actual steals. Perhaps the defensive strategy should be changed or modified if this is true.
If it ain't working, why have it as a primary defensive strategy? The fact that this team is near the rock bottom of 353 teams in defending the 2 and 3 tells me that something isn't right. Every team has young players and new players on the roster who start. This team has a stud and a few more pretty good athletes. There is no reason that these players should be performing so poorly defensively. Perhaps with time, these problems will be fixed. And much of this is coaching. Like I said early on, I hope Matt becomes successful and he just may do that. It would make me happy. But I remain skeptical. But it's early in the season. Hope springs eternal.
Ok, I admit, my reaction was a little extreme. Knee jerk reaction. Just frustrating to keep losing games that we could have easily won (trend over the past few years). This team is much better than the past few years however, and has VERY high potential in my mind, but it will take time as it is a very young team.
Quote from: vok22 on December 04, 2019, 07:03:13 PM
Ok, I admit, my reaction was a little extreme. Knee jerk reaction. Just frustrating to keep losing games that we could have easily won (trend over the past few years). This team is much better than the past few years however, and has VERY high potential in my mind, but it will take time as it is a very young team.
Glad to have you back Vok22!!! Look forward to you posting more often with thoughts and opinions.
I've been hopefully optimistic thus far. It is a more entertaining style of basketball than we've seen thus far in the Lottich era. I've been impressed by Krikke. Equally surprised by Gordon and Zion not getting many minutes. Happy for JFL. Been impressed by Sackey. Not big on Kiser but know he's a fan favorite. Robinson playing well. Can tell Clay is raw but a lot of upside.
Sure defense is a concern but equally alarming is our free throws thus far ... We win that game with better free throw shooting down the stretch
I'm not starting the CMU thread... :)
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 06:57:34 PMIf your primary defensive strategy is to create turnovers and steals I would ask what is and has been the cost/benefit of such a strategy. How many of those turnovers or steals that actually occurred led to a scoring opportunity for us? Contrast that with the number of missed steals and easy driving buckets made by the opponent. Perhaps they are scoring on balance more than we are in these situations because I'm guessing that missed steals are way more common than actual steals. Perhaps the defensive strategy should be changed or modified if this is true.
If it ain't working, why have it as a primary defensive strategy?
Great questions :thumbsup: and very difficult to answer! My take is that Lottich views Sackey and Freeman as a once in a lifetime guard tandem requiring a shift in tactics to properly exploit. So I take them as the foundation around which he is engineering a major structural change. Clay, Fazekas and Krikke look like they will fit into this system perfectly with Robinson, Kiser, Freese-Villien and McMillan as fair fits and the rest of the team filling various roles. Looks like everybody is buying in but many are struggling with the defensive rotations. I don't think that any of our departed grad transfers would be great fits in this new system but I would concede that Golder might have at least maintained his minutes.
As for the cost/benefit I just don't know how to properly price chaos. Yes an attempt must be made to measure these things but it looks to be much too early to throw the gearshift into reverse. Also a fast and loose play style attracts fast and loose talent. As long as all our future recruits can defend out to the 3-point line then I love this gamble. Who is the main beneficiary -for now? Can you say Freeman-Liberty?
Quote from: justducky on December 05, 2019, 11:18:42 AMQuote from: Just Sayin on December 04, 2019, 06:57:34 PMIf your primary defensive strategy is to create turnovers and steals I would ask what is and has been the cost/benefit of such a strategy. How many of those turnovers or steals that actually occurred led to a scoring opportunity for us? Contrast that with the number of missed steals and easy driving buckets made by the opponent. Perhaps they are scoring on balance more than we are in these situations because I'm guessing that missed steals are way more common than actual steals. Perhaps the defensive strategy should be changed or modified if this is true. If it ain't working, why have it as a primary defensive strategy?
Great questions :thumbsup: and very difficult to answer! My take is that Lottich views Sackey and Freeman as a once in a lifetime guard tandem requiring a shift in tactics to properly exploit. So I take them as the foundation around which he is engineering a major structural change. Clay, Fazekas and Krikke look like they will fit into this system perfectly with Robinson, Kiser, Freese-Villien and McMillan as fair fits and the rest of the team filling various roles. Looks like everybody is buying in but many are struggling with the defensive rotations. I don't think that any of our departed grad transfers would be great fits in this new system but I would concede that Golder might have at least maintained his minutes. As for the cost/benefit I just don't know how to properly price chaos. Yes an attempt must be made to measure these things but it looks to be much too early to throw the gearshift into reverse. Also a fast and loose play style attracts fast and loose talent. As long as all our future recruits can defend out to the 3-point line then I love this gamble. Who is the main beneficiary -for now? Can you say Freeman-Liberty?
Good points. But thus far, this approach has led to a significant decrease in our defense of shots when compared to prior years. And unless there are some major (and pronto) leaps in the ability of this team to adapt to what is required to improve defensive rotations, etc., things are going to get ugly real fast because if you can't defend shots, you lose. I would venture to say that no team ever which has made the big dance since its inception was near the bottom, in the 320s out of 353 teams in defending the 2 and the 3 and being near the bottom in reducing the Effective FG% of opponents, which Valpo now is. Think of that. The bottom feeders in Division one are being joined in those statistics by Valpo. You HAVE to turn that around. Disaster looms if you don't start to see improvement regardless of whether we have improving offensive prowess. Heck, if I were Matt, I'd say to hell with this. It isn't working. He's had fairly good defensive teams in the past and perhaps he should not try to fix what ain't broke.