Can we make it two in a row?? I'd like to think so against the Salukis. SIU lost at Indiana St by double digits but beat Illinois St. at home by double digits. The win against the redbirds is their best win of the season. They have yet to beat anyone in the top 200( I look at Massey Ratings). Lets get on a roll!
Valpo 72
SIU 64
Season Numbers Conf. & Non.Conf S. Illinois Valpo
Points scored per 100 possessions 97.0(239) 101.3(154)
Points allowed per 100 possessions 99.5 (148) 100.9(173)
Made Eff FG% 51.2(101) 50.9(116)
Allowed Eff FG% 48.4(149) 54.0(311)
Made 3Pt% 33.5(155) 34.9(100)
Allowed 3Pt% 31.0(100) 36.2(281)
Made 2P% 52.0(86) 50.0(134)
Allowed 2Pt% 49.5(192) 53.8(301)
Free Throw % 73.1(92) 69.8(181)
SOS (AdjOE-AdjDE of teams played) -3.36(294) +1.32(134)
Conference Only S. Illinois Valpo
Points scored per 100 possessions 90.1(10) 100.3(5)
Points allowed per 100 possessions 90.1(1) 101.0(5)
Made Eff FG% 50.5(5) 52.0(4)
Allowed Eff FG% 51.0(4) 51.4(10)
Made 3Pt% 31.4(8) 39.6(2)
Allowed 3Pt% 26.7(2) 35.9(5)
Made 2P% 52.3(4) 46.5(8)
Allowed 2Pt% 55.4(10) 50.0(4)
Free Throw % 66.7(8) 83.3(1)
Conf. SOS(AdjOE-AdjDE of teams played) +.08(9) +.99(6)
You pick em'
https://wsiltv.com/2019/12/31/undermanned-siu-falls-to-indiana-state-68-56/
https://wsiltv.com/2020/01/04/salukis-power-to-first-conference-win/
Watch the look on the face of the female news reader at the end of this segment. Now there is a person who spent too much time at PK's bar on Illinois Street in Carbondale. She realized she is at the end of the TV news food chain in lowly Southern Illinois and the only way is up so you might as well enjoy your nights while you can.
(https://s3-media0.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/mDV35Kx-7JN2Ls54-9krMg/o.jpg)
I know because I woke up in a house in Marion, IL before thinking what did I do last night in Carbondale and could I fall any lower.
Spread: SIU -2
https://www.oddsshark.com/ncaab/valparaiso-southern-illinois-odds-january-7-2020-1196017
VU hits 13 3's and wins it by 7. This is the way.
Quote from: wh on January 06, 2020, 07:55:34 PMSpread: SIU -2 https://www.oddsshark.com/ncaab/valparaiso-southern-illinois-odds-january-7-2020-1196017
Ooh I like that line. I don't gamble but I like that line.
Quote from: M on January 06, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
VU hits 13 3's and wins it by 7. This is the way.
They are pretty good at defending the three. They keep teams well below their average.
But lately we've not been too shabby at making threes.
Should be a good battle at the 3-pt line.
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 06, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Quote from: M on January 06, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
VU hits 13 3's and wins it by 7. This is the way.
They are pretty good at defending the three. They keep teams well below their average.
But lately we've not been too shabby at making threes.
Should be a good battle at the 3-pt line.
Probably where this one will be decided don't you think? Their perimeter defense against our shooting. The better of the two gets the win.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 06, 2020, 09:51:47 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 06, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Quote from: M on January 06, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
VU hits 13 3's and wins it by 7. This is the way.
They are pretty good at defending the three. They keep teams well below their average.
But lately we've not been too shabby at making threes.
Should be a good battle at the 3-pt line.
Probably where this one will be decided don't you think? Their perimeter defense against our shooting. The better of the two gets the win.
The more I look at the numbers, I think you are right on point here.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 06, 2020, 09:51:47 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 06, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Quote from: M on January 06, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
VU hits 13 3's and wins it by 7. This is the way.
They are pretty good at defending the three. They keep teams well below their average.
But lately we've not been too shabby at making threes.
Should be a good battle at the 3-pt line.
Probably where this one will be decided don't you think? Their perimeter defense against our shooting. The better of the two gets the win.
Their defense of the three against our offense based on season numbers will likely prevent us from shooting our average which gives them a slight edge but we've improved lately. Our defense of their three based on season averages will allow them to meet or exceed their average shooting percentage. Slight edge there to So. Illinois too. Thus, they are the favorite, partially because of this three-point battle advantage and they have a better defense than we do as a complete team.
Felt like SIU was always in the top half under Hinson. With him gone, it's time to take their spot on a permanent basis. No more Thursdays!
The Valley is better with a strong SIU so I hope they get back to rolling at some point BUT since they're not there yet let's let them take a Thursday game for a change. It would be so nice to not be a Thursday team this year! I absolutely think SIU made the right hire to help bring them back and that Mullins will build something good down in Carbondale.
Thursday night in St Louis at the Hilton St Louis at the Ballpark is a great time.
The 43rd annual Builders St Louis Home and Garden Show will going on at the Dome at America's Center (former home of the Rams).
The Fabulous Fox on Grand Ave north of SLU will have a program called "The Bands Visit."
The Grandel in Grandel Square will have "The Office, A Musical Parody."
The World Chess Hall of Fame will be open till 9:00 p.m.
They will be building the new soccer specific stadium on Market Street by Union Station for St. Louis' yet unnamed MLS team.
But the most important thing is after they see Southern Illinois lose Saluki fans will be free to enjoy it all.
No NWI Times or Post Trib pre-game articles, or did I miss it?
Excellent pre-game article from The Southern Illinoisan, including quotes from both coaches:
SIU Men's Basketball | Salukis, Crusaders both rebuilding under young head coaches
TODD HEFFERMAN The Southern Jan 6, 2020 Updated 11 hrs ago
https://thesouthern.com/sports/college/salukimania/siu-men-s-basketball-salukis-crusaders-both-rebuilding-under-young/article_e0862ebe-86f3-5ac0-9dbe-88fd0b6f9601.html
Quote from: wh on January 07, 2020, 10:17:27 AM
No NWI Times or Post Trib pre-game articles, or did I miss it?
I got back from vacation this morning. Hoping to be doing some more going forward. As for now, just put up a new episode of Union Street Hoops that you all might enjoy.
Quote from: Pgmado on January 07, 2020, 01:47:23 PM
Quote from: wh on January 07, 2020, 10:17:27 AM
No NWI Times or Post Trib pre-game articles, or did I miss it?
I got back from vacation this morning. Hoping to be doing some more going forward. As for now, just put up a new episode of Union Street Hoops that you all might enjoy.
Deflection, deflection, deflection............................more deflection from the real truth..............sound familiar.................well, we are going to war against the dogs tonight :-(
Damn that McMillan. Just when you know for sure he shouldn't be starting he goes for two threes and no fouls. Should we put in Krikke now because Mileek is due for some fouls now?
I've already seen enough! Sit Sackey and Kiser!
Another Lottich Special Offensive Drought in progress.
Mileek should be benched for even thinking of shooting 3s is what I've been reading on here.
Ha
Good thing he showed up this first half or it'd be even uglier.
YOU ALWAYS GUARD THE WHITE GUY AT THE THREE POINT LINE!
I was going to type that, but was scared of the PC police. The one white guy on SIU hit two 3's in the last 2 minutes of the half that killed us.
Quote from: bbtds on January 07, 2020, 07:10:04 PM
Damn that McMillan. Just when you know for sure he shouldn't be starting he goes for two threes and no fouls. Should we put in Krikke now because Mileek is due for some fouls now?
Just terrible play! 8 points in 10 minutes! 0 fouls and 0 turnovers! Bench him!! ;) But Ben, never mind. What is up with the rest of the starting lineup??
JFL dunk a ESPN top 10? I think so.
I have a feeling there will be a cold stretch for SIU. It's whether we match it this half is the key.
That Domask is going to get cold.
Krikke please or have Mileek guard Domask and foul him hard. Really hard! Ok, maybe not.
I'm beginning to believe in the Mileek fouling Domask senario now. Ok, ok. Not.
Yep, Booby C. style.
Welp. Time to start drinking.
We don't even start to play until we're down 15 or so.
Free throws are free, why do we waste them?
Quote from: nkvu on January 07, 2020, 08:12:02 PM
We don't even start to play until we're down 15 or so.
So do we stop when we get back to 7 down or does SIU start hitting threes again?
Body language in the huddles is horrible. We look lost.
I remember the exit sign for Nashville, Illinois, off I-64 had to have the "IL" for Illinois because too many travelers were thinking when they got off the interstate they were in Music City. So someone built a music venue in Nashville, IL and it did really well because people were still getting off the interstate about 250 miles too early.
Free throws are free, why do we waste them?
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Quote from: bbtds on January 07, 2020, 08:37:13 PM
Free throws are free, why do we waste them?
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Repeat
If we were a NFL team, this is the game to fire your offensive coordinator.
Folks this what we're gonna get until Lottich steps down or gets fired. Got the calls IMO but cant win the game or come even close. Wow that was bad. I think we have talented players(and also boneheaded ones, mileek why foul a 3 point shooter, cardinal sin boy). Lottich just has problems putting them in the right places and calling good plays IMO.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 07, 2020, 08:46:14 PM
If we were a NFL team, this is the game to fire your offensive coordinator.
So StlVUfan can't sit behind the bench anymore?
The team needs to work on shots within 8 feet of the basket. My lord, how can you miss some of those shots?
(https://image1.masterfile.com/getImage/NjczLTAyMTM5ODMyZW4uMDAwMDAwMDA=AEmqCa/673-02139832en_Masterfile.jpg)
When star shoots 6-21 (1-9 from three) that ain't going to cut it most nights.
Don't guard the shooter in the first half, don't knock down shots or free throws in the second, you are not gonna win many that way. To cap it off, we give a home run on the in bounds. Sad.
I can't think of the last time I saw Valpo hit by a successful HR ball. Many have tried, but none have succeeded in at least 10 years.
At some point, the players just have to execute. SIU D is good, but the guys made unbelievably few of their make able shots, FTs, lay ups, etc. Terrible performance. Burn the tape. Get back to who you are.
one step forward, two steps back for this team.
Gracious! When you shoot like that what do you expect? And Lottich never took a shot! Definitely need inside scoring. Lock Zion in the gym by himself for an hour a day to shoot only free throws. Now let's forget this one and win on Saturday.
What was up with Nick?
We have very little inside game. We have no point guard scoring. Even with Fazekas only minor portions of those problems will disappear. Is it back to the drawing board ???
Quote from: govalpogo on January 07, 2020, 09:00:02 PM
At some point, the players just have to execute. SIU D is good, but the guys made unbelievably few of their make able shots, FTs, lay ups, etc. Terrible performance. Burn the tape. Get back to who you are.
Agreed. Nearly everyone playing their worst game on the same night - the perfect storm. Not the end of the world. The sun will come up tomorrow, and we'll get back on track Saturday.
Quote from: valpo64 on January 07, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
Gracious! When you shoot like that what do you expect? And Lottich never took a shot! Definitely need inside scoring. Lock Zion in the gym by himself for an hour a day to shoot only free throws. Now let's forget this one and win on Saturday.
He never took a shot but he recruited the people that did so... So inconsistent.... Come on Matt. It's on you to get this team ready to play every day. We should NOT be getting blown out by double digits by THIS SIU team. This is embarrassing. This is the kind of game that locks us into Thursday for another year. And we'll get the same babbling BS about youth and not making shots and just needing to play harder and better we get after every loss. Where's the plan to actually GET THEM THERE coach? We don't see consistent improvement game to game EVER.
No boxscore yet but they should get it quickly. Almost nothing for them to tally on our scoring, assist, rebounds and offensive stats. ;) Might take them a while to count all our turnovers.
Is Siggy injured? He was in regular clothes.
Not to bring the mood down any further but... SIU shot 49%.
Our defense was just as bad as ever.
Quote from: valpotx on January 07, 2020, 09:22:48 PM
Is Siggy injured? He was in regular clothes.
Did anybody listen to Todd? Might he have said something about Nick?
I hate to say this but our performance is kinda on MLB as well. He extolled the virtues of hiring from within but that only works when you hire somebody who is actually ready to coach not when you hire some Johnny Come Lately to the staff who had next to zero experience on the end of the bench. If we had gotten Powell or Diebler sure hire from within but let's be honest this experiment was doomed from the start. I hope we actually take some time and look for a qualified candidate next time (assuming Bryce doesn't come to bail us out again) instead of penny pinching on such an important position. This was a hire we had to nail the first post-Drew hire and we have failed spectacularly.
I've come to the conclusion that this team needs a legitimate point guard. I think that might be the source of most of the issues. Unfortunately I don't see one on the roster (unless sackey completely turns it around, and yes he is only a sophomore but he has seemingly regressed) and I don't see one in the recruiting. Only wings and shooting guards, albeit very promising ones.
Quote from: M on January 07, 2020, 08:54:12 PM
When star shoots 6-21 (1-9 from three) that ain't going to cut it most nights.
I followed on social media, so all I saw was an awesome dunk. :dance: No one tweets missed shots or turnovers. :(
Did you see how pissed JFL was during the time out :o This was the worst game this year >:( No offense No defense No FT No Coaching No TEAM Come on Valpo you're better than this ???
It looked like he was trying to motivate Krikke to do better, as he was very off during this game. Ben didn't seem like it was negative. I liked to see that fire and leadership from JFL.
https://wsiltv.com/2020/01/07/salukis-top-valpo-win-sixth-straight-home-game/
Oh, Our favorite WSIL channel 3 reporter, Kendra, much wider awake and in a pre-party more professional look.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 07, 2020, 09:34:06 PMIf we had gotten Powell or Diebler sure hire from within but let's be honest this experiment was doomed from the start. I hope we actually take some time and look for a qualified candidate next time (assuming Bryce doesn't come to bail us out again) instead of penny pinching on such an important position. This was a hire we had to nail the first post-Drew hire and we have failed spectacularly.
So Powell and Diebler had head coaching experience? Folks in Nashville don't have quite has high an opinion of Bryce that you do. He did set some records though. :rotfl:
I try to watch a team for the first 10-15 games before starting to understand who they are and what they may become. Observations:
1. They missed 8 bunnies on put backs. 4 on one sequence. How is that possible? Go up and 2-hand dunk it and draw the foul. Add the 3 1-1's they missed down the stretch and that is not coaching issues.
2. We were down 3 after cutting the lead down from 11. Suddenly, we can't make a bucket. Kiser rattled a 3, the missed bunnies, and oh the turnovers.
3. Not an excuse but legs were tired after the OT Saturday and travel to SIU. Gordon and JFL both hitting front of rim on 3's. Plus, defensively the team played well for many parts of game. 1st half dude was 8 for 8. Adjustments were made and he was quiet 2d half after 2 TOs.
4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years, but misses Ryan's 3 ball desperately. I have no confidence he will play much rest of season, but glaring weakness is good/consistent shooters.
5. Bench McMillan. The foul on the 3 shooter is a frosh mistake. He's a junior. He is not progressing. He is inconsistent 3. He can back up Krikke. Krikke is a better defender already (knows what to do with his arms and body to force shooters to adjust), he rebounds better, and has some offensive moves. I trust him with more minutes.
6. Sackey is not helping right now. I still believe he has a nagging left arm issue that is affecting his dribbling and passing. He has not been the same since SLU when he was hammered late.
7. Love JFL and Clay. JFL makes passes that others need to start looking for.
8. Gordon needs to up his game. It's in there, but he seems on cruise control.
9. SIU was giving us that game. They were worse with the ball than we were in 1st half. We have got to do a better job of handling the basketball.
10. Keep repeating to myself 2 sophs, 3 frosh, 2 transfers. They are playing hard and have potential. Do we have the patience to wait for the guys next year? That was a frustrating, winnable game last night. Are we about to break through or fall through?
Powell is at Gonzaga now so a really good program thought differently than Vandy.
My opinion is they weren't given enough time and the new AD was not the same AD that hired Bryce and company. AD wanted his boy.
This doesn't mean they aren't good coaches. They certainly have a lot more on the resume than Lottich.
Let's me honest here, Lottich would never get a head coaching job anywhere like he did at Valpo. Right time Right place. He was the 3rd choice. It worked for him and he has an opportunity. Would be great for him if he did really well and was able to go to a higher paying job. That doesn't look the case.....
"He was the 3rd choice."
Oklahomamick: Who was 2d choice?
Quote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
3. Not an excuse but legs were tired after the OT Saturday and travel to SIU. Gordon and JFL both hitting front of rim on 3's. Plus, defensively the team played well for many parts of game. 1st half dude was 8 for 8. Adjustments were made and he was quiet 2d half after 2 TOs.
Does anyone know the travel details for the last two games? Did they fly or bus? Did they come back to Valpo between the games or just travel from Evansville to Carbondale? If they stayed in the area, the travel from Evansville to SIU shouldn't be an excuse, IMO.
Quote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
10. Keep repeating to myself 2 sophs, 3 frosh, 2 transfers. They are playing hard and have potential. Do we have the patience to wait for the guys next year? That was a frustrating, winnable game last night. Are we about to break through or fall through?
And over half of SIU's minutes last night came from freshman and those freshmen scored 38 of SIU's 63 points.
Quote from: EddieCabot on January 08, 2020, 10:40:18 AM
Does anyone know the travel details for the last two games? Did they fly or bus? Did they come back to Valpo between the games or just travel from Evansville to Carbondale? If they stayed in the area, the travel from Evansville to SIU shouldn't be an excuse, IMO.
My understanding is that they took a bus to Evansville, stayed down south through last night's game, and flew back last night. I don't know where they practiced over the period they were out of town.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 08, 2020, 10:13:42 AM
Powell is at Gonzaga now so a really good program thought differently than Vandy.
My opinion is they weren't given enough time and the new AD was not the same AD that hired Bryce and company. AD wanted his boy.
This doesn't mean they aren't good coaches. They certainly have a lot more on the resume than Lottich.
Let's me honest here, Lottich would never get a head coaching job anywhere like he did at Valpo. Right time Right place. He was the 3rd choice. It worked for him and he has an opportunity. Would be great for him if he did really well and was able to go to a higher paying job. That doesn't look the case.....
Not sure why you think Powell is a better coach. He has never been a head coach. He was Bryce's top assistant at Vandy and thus must be painted with the same brush. Vandy had a first round draft pick who went down early in the season and they didn't/couldn't adjust. Was that bad coaching? Matt has been blamed for bad coaching but also has had injuries/suspensions etc which had little to do with his coaching ability. True, Matt was in the right place at the right time. He won a conference championship in one of his three years.
Vandy was last in the SEC, set a record for not winning one conference game and lost 20 straight games. If they had come here to play we would have beaten them.
Powell was obvious first choice.
My understanding is they spoke to Gore second as he had been there for over 15 years and had relationships with Heckler and MLB with a lot of experience ranging from Homer to Bryce and in between with Scott. Gore was next in the pecking order.
Gore either didn't want it or didn't feel comfortable/ready.
3rd and lastly they spoke with Lottich and thought it would work. (was a good player, sharp guy from Stanford, represents university). Lottich obviously jumped at the opportunity because he would not have a head coaching offer at any other DI program in the nation. Opportunity to quadruple salary and go from the 4th guy to "the" guy was a no brainer for him.
If Lottich was doing really well and was offered a better position I suspect he would take it in a heart beat. He wouldn't stick around as long as Bryce did. But Lottich won't have that chance.
Quote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years,
For the most part, you are correct. 3-pt shooting is better than the previous two years.
Year 2% Shooting 3% Shooting Free Throw Shooting%2018 50.5(153) 34.2(211) 71.2(181)
2019 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199)
2020(ToDate) 49.3(162) 34.1(128) 68.3(229)
VU72, you meant to say the best player to have ever put a Valpo uniform on won a conference championship in Lottich's first year. Any of us could have won that league that year.
Determining whether Powell or Lottich is a better coach is kind of subjective.
Let's face it, if Lottich isn't here in 2 years, it won't be because he got a head coaching job at a better situation.
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 08:22:22 AMIf we had gotten Powell or Diebler sure hire from within but let's be honest this experiment was doomed from the start.
I'm probably going to get ridiculed for this, but I actually thought that Matt did a remarkable coaching job his initial season. He basically took Bryce's NIT team from the year before minus the graduated Fernandez, minus the late transfer Skara, the denied Carter and beat Alabama, BYU, Ball State and Rhode Island while losing to Kentucky, Oregon... and then the team lost Adekoya. Despite all of the turmoil around the Adekoya suspension VU wins the conference going 14-4 after losing Peters for the last two conference games and the remainder of the season. I know this is just wild speculation, but I think one could infer that even with losing Fernandez, Carter and Skara, and then NOT losing Adekoya early in the season and Peters towards the end, this team under Matt could have been better than the Bryce team of the year before.
So holding Bryce to similar standards as we seem to be holding Matt, how in the
h e double hockey sticks does Bryce not motivate the "15-16" team, perhaps the most talented team in VU history, to beat Green Bay and probably have another Sweet Sixteen run?? I don't remember hearing anyone call for his head after that letdown.
Bryce never really faced the adversity with players that Matt has (until his last year at Vandy and we all know how that turned out), I know that Carter went down for a while, but he didn't lose his leading scorer 3 seasons in a row. For crying out loud we started MVC play 6-1 last year with road wins at Southern Illinois and Missouri State before Ryan went down. Does anyone on here really think we are a Thursday night team last year if just Ryan stays healthy, not to mention the rest of the injuries?? Do you really?? I just get so sick of hearing the call to chop off his head from people that have never had a seat on a D1 bench or even coached a college game at any level. I don't agree with everything they are doing, I was screaming at the TV last night for more ball pressure to speed up the game early in the second half, but I don't know why Nick is not playing or why Siggy is in street clothes or the myriad of other things that comprise the day to day goings on of that VU basketball team. I certainly don't know why we missed at least 10 point blank shots that I don't think were Matt's fault. Posters say that we can't coach big men because of how Mileek plays yet I believe that Luke was the primary coach for Fernandez, a player that made tremendous strides as a big man project.
I am not against criticism, just hoping for a better dialog because saying this was a doomed experiment from the beginning is just not very thoughtful and when posts aren't very thoughtful dialog just gets bad and when it gets bad I don't feel like posting much and therefore I haven't.
Lottich's first year he didn't have his players or system, and probably would have gone to the tournament if not for one of the worst runs of poor luck we've had. I don't think that year was a good indication of his ability either good or bad for those reasons. His second year we graduated a ton of talent and entered a new league. I would actually argue this was a good year for him in terms of keeping the team engaged through a difficult season.
It's last year and this year that give me cause for concern, along with trends over his whole tenure, such as the poor starts to halves and very inconsistent offense. I actually do think Matt will be a successful college head coach. I'm just not sure it's here or now. Would not shock me at all to see him have a Porter Moser type career arc. He recruits well (though don't sell Luke short on this point either), and doesn't seem to have much trouble getting a good effort out of his team. But his Xs and Os, especially on offense are far behind his peers.
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 11:30:19 AMNot sure why you think Powell is a better coach. He has never been a head coach. He was Bryce's top assistant at Vandy and thus must be painted with the same brush. Vandy had a first round draft pick who went down early in the season and they didn't/couldn't adjust. Was that bad coaching? Matt has been blamed for bad coaching but also has had injuries/suspensions etc which had little to do with his coaching ability. True, Matt was in the right place at the right time. He won a conference championship in one of his three years. Vandy was last in the SEC, set a record for not winning one conference game and lost 20 straight games. If they had come here to play we would have beaten them.
Doubtful. They scored more points than we did and had a more efficient offense, they had a better and more efficient defense than we did and thus allowed fewer points to be scored against them than we did, and their shooting percentages were nearly identical with Valpo having the edge in FT%.
2019 AdjOE AdjDE 2Pt% 3pt% FT% Vanderbilt 102.2(215) 101.4(116) 50.0(186) 31.1(315) 67.3(296)
Valpo 98.2(291) 103.1(145) 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199)
With all of their issues and getting walloped in a very tough conference, their final rankings were Vandy 155, Valpo 220.
Quote from: valpotx on January 07, 2020, 09:22:48 PMIs Siggy injured? He was in regular clothes.
He was out the last two games with a hip injury.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 08, 2020, 11:57:34 AMBut his Xs and Os, especially on offense are far behind his peers.
Explain with examples please... He has basically run Byrce's stuff up until this year. A lot more motion and flex stuff so almost a complete change from years past. We do appear to be missing the cut through the middle, not sure why we are reluctant to make that pass.
Wouldn't you agree that if your potential leading scorer was either lost to suspension (IMOP the coaching staffs fault should have never happened) or injury 3 consecutive years your offensive efficiency rating might take a hit and you might have a little trouble scoring?? Once again I ask, do you really think we are having some of these issues if Ryan is on the floor?? Ryan probably would have accounted for 20% of our scoring this year. Do any of you really think that is an easy thing to replace?? You don't just pluck a 15 point a game scorer off of the bench, is that so hard to understand... Just think how hard it is to recruit a player like that. Shane Hammink isn't just sitting waiting to go in the game. Your lucky if you have 2 of those players on your team.
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 12:07:30 PM
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 11:30:19 AMNot sure why you think Powell is a better coach. He has never been a head coach. He was Bryce's top assistant at Vandy and thus must be painted with the same brush. Vandy had a first round draft pick who went down early in the season and they didn't/couldn't adjust. Was that bad coaching? Matt has been blamed for bad coaching but also has had injuries/suspensions etc which had little to do with his coaching ability. True, Matt was in the right place at the right time. He won a conference championship in one of his three years. Vandy was last in the SEC, set a record for not winning one conference game and lost 20 straight games. If they had come here to play we would have beaten them.
Doubtful. They scored more points than we did and had a more efficient offense, they had a better and more efficient defense than we did and thus allowed fewer points to be scored against them than we did, and their shooting percentages were nearly identical with Valpo having the edge in FT%.
2019 AdjOE AdjDE 2Pt% 3pt% FT%
Vanderbilt 102.2(215) 101.4(116) 50.0(186) 31.1(315) 67.3(296)
Valpo 98.2(291) 103.1(145) 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199)
With all of their issues and getting walloped in a very tough conference, their final rankings were Vandy 155, Valpo 220.
Loyola beat them by 8 on a neutral floor. If they had come to the ARC I think we win. I'm not talking about last year, I'm talking about them buying out their contract this year.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 08, 2020, 11:31:24 AMGore was next in the pecking order.
I'm guessing this is total speculation. Think back to Matt's speech after getting the job at the presser. He went out of his way to say how important Luke's role is and basicly apologized for getting the job over Luke. No way Luke passed on being the head coach.
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years,
For the most part, you are correct. 3-pt shooting is better than the previous two years.
Year 2% Shooting 3% Shooting Free Throw Shooting%
2018 50.5(153) 34.2(211) 71.2(181)
2019 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199)
2020(ToDate) 49.3(162) 34.1(128) 68.3(229)
The line is a foot farther back this year.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 08, 2020, 10:13:42 AM
Powell is at Gonzaga now so a really good program thought differently than Vandy.
My opinion is they weren't given enough time and the new AD was not the same AD that hired Bryce and company. AD wanted his boy.
This doesn't mean they aren't good coaches. They certainly have a lot more on the resume than Lottich.
Let's me honest here, Lottich would never get a head coaching job anywhere like he did at Valpo. Right time Right place. He was the 3rd choice. It worked for him and he has an opportunity. Would be great for him if he did really well and was able to go to a higher paying job. That doesn't look the case.....
How do you know Matt Lottich was VU's 3rd choice? Who told you that? Who were the 1st and 2nd choices?
And to '1314, you're saying Valpo should have conducted a nationwide search because you're not happy with the results of hiring "in-house." Had Valpo brought in an outsider who produced the same results, undoubtedly you would be criticizing LaBarbara for not promoting from within our own highly successful, nationally recognized program. "That's what Butler does," you would say, "But we're too dumb to figure it out." It's called perfect 20/20 hindsight. The decision-makers are always wrong, and you're always right.
One more thing - I agree with Ft. Wayne that we need to stop blaming coaching for every loss, and, I'll add, calling for the coach's head after every loss. I'm quite sure that the players were adequately prepared for everything SIU was going to do, how to defend them, how to best score off their defense, etc. But, at the end of the day its the players who have to execute, and they didn't. They laid a big fat egg. Coaching doesn't make them miss layup after layup, coaching doesn't cause Daniel to keep turning the ball over, bouncing it off his own feet and knees, coaching doesn't make Mileek foul at an insane rate or not front his man in the low post, coaching doesn't make Zion shoot 1-11 from the FT line, coaching didn't take our premier 3 pt. shooter out of commission for the past 15 games.
BTW I'm 99% certain the guys on the team aren't blaming their coaches either. They seem like a mature group of guys who take responsibility for their own actions. I think they'll bounce back from this, and play much better on Saturday.
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 12:50:35 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 11:37:18 AMQuote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years,
For the most part, you are correct. 3-pt shooting is better than the previous two years. Year 2% Shooting 3% Shooting Free Throw Shooting% 2018 50.5(153) 34.2(211) 71.2(181) 2019 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199) 2020(ToDate) 49.3(162) 34.1(128) 68.3(229)
The line is a foot farther back this year.
Which further supports my comment that we are a better 3pt shooting team this year. What is your point here?
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 12:44:03 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 12:07:30 PMQuote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 11:30:19 AMNot sure why you think Powell is a better coach. He has never been a head coach. He was Bryce's top assistant at Vandy and thus must be painted with the same brush. Vandy had a first round draft pick who went down early in the season and they didn't/couldn't adjust. Was that bad coaching? Matt has been blamed for bad coaching but also has had injuries/suspensions etc which had little to do with his coaching ability. True, Matt was in the right place at the right time. He won a conference championship in one of his three years. Vandy was last in the SEC, set a record for not winning one conference game and lost 20 straight games. If they had come here to play we would have beaten them.
Doubtful. They scored more points than we did and had a more efficient offense, they had a better and more efficient defense than we did and thus allowed fewer points to be scored against them than we did, and their shooting percentages were nearly identical with Valpo having the edge in FT%. 2019 AdjOE AdjDE 2Pt% 3pt% FT% Vanderbilt 102.2(215) 101.4(116) 50.0(186) 31.1(315) 67.3(296) Valpo 98.2(291) 103.1(145) 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199) With all of their issues and getting walloped in a very tough conference, their final rankings were Vandy 155, Valpo 220.
Loyola beat them by 8 on a neutral floor. If they had come to the ARC I think we win. I'm not talking about last year, I'm talking about them buying out their contract this year.
One game does not reveal the quality of a team for an entire season. Kentucky got beat by Evansville. Looking at the entire season and the conclusion is that Vanderbilt would probably have beaten Valpo. The numbers don't lie and they reflect what the team actually did for the entire season. Vandy, despite having a horrible record in a very tough conference was a better team than Valpo. That's not my opinion, the numbers bear that out.
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 12:50:35 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 11:37:18 AMQuote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years,
For the most part, you are correct. 3-pt shooting is better than the previous two years. Year 2% Shooting 3% Shooting Free Throw Shooting% 2018 50.5(153) 34.2(211) 71.2(181) 2019 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199) 2020(ToDate) 49.3(162) 34.1(128) 68.3(229)
The line is a foot farther back this year.
Which further supports my comment that we are a better 3pt shooting team this year. What is your point here?
Was just adding to and supporting your point.
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 11:37:18 AMQuote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years,
For the most part, you are correct. 3-pt shooting is better than the previous two years. Year 2% Shooting 3% Shooting Free Throw Shooting% 2018 50.5(153) 34.2(211) 71.2(181) 2019 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199) 2020(ToDate) 49.3(162) 34.1(128) 68.3(229)
After taking a second look at the numbers, it appears that except for the better 3Pt% shooting, we were not better than the previous two years in both 2Pt% and FT%.
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 01:40:36 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 01:26:35 PMQuote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 12:50:35 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 11:37:18 AMQuote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM4. This is a better shooting team than past 2 years,
For the most part, you are correct. 3-pt shooting is better than the previous two years. Year 2% Shooting 3% Shooting Free Throw Shooting% 2018 50.5(153) 34.2(211) 71.2(181) 2019 50.1(184) 31.0(324) 69.9(199) 2020(ToDate) 49.3(162) 34.1(128) 68.3(229)
The line is a foot farther back this year.
Which further supports my comment that we are a better 3pt shooting team this year. What is your point here?
Was just adding to and supporting your point.
Gotcha.
vu72, I guess we were talking past each other about Vandy vs Valpo and "we could have beat them" comment. I'm still not sure to what you were referring.
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
vu72, I guess we were talking past each other about Vandy vs Valpo and "we could have beat them" comment. I'm still not sure to what you were referring.
I was thinking only about them coming to the ARC THIS YEAR. Given the fact that Loyola beat them by 9, THIS YEAR, on a neutral court, I think it would not be a stretch to think we would have won the game if it actually happened.
We will know more after Vandy plays Arkansas and Tennessee. Cincinnati beat Tennessee by 12 and beat us in OT. We CAN play pretty well but aren't anywhere close to consistent.
VU72 he didn't apologize for getting the job over him, he was thanking and appreciating him for passing.
1. Powell
2. Gore
3. Lottich
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 02:00:19 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
vu72, I guess we were talking past each other about Vandy vs Valpo and "we could have beat them" comment. I'm still not sure to what you were referring.
I was thinking only about them coming to the ARC THIS YEAR. Given the fact that Loyola beat them by 9, THIS YEAR, on a neutral court, I think it would not be a stretch to think we would have won the game if it actually happened.
We will know more after Vandy plays Arkansas and Tennessee. Cincinnati beat Tennessee by 12 and beat us in OT. We CAN play pretty well but aren't anywhere close to consistent.
Got it
I too have heard enough about every negative thing that happens to this team is Lottich's fault. For all of you experts, what more than inconsistency can one expect from a young team? I too wonder where some people say they KNOW who was first, second or third choice for the head coaching position. When Lottich was hired many said it was great that we continued to hire from within. Now it is MLB's fault for not going outside. Some of you think you know it all. Talk is cheap, it is much easier to criticize than give positive praise. When we win, players get the accolades. When we lose it is the coach's fault. This consistent Lottich bashing is getting old. Get a life folks! Sit back, take a deep breath or two and relax. I too have been disappointed in some of the things that have occurred but you don' throw the baby out with the bathwater. Players and Coaches make mistakes, we all do. I don't know what some of you expected from this young, inexperienced team this season. And now we even hear that is goes back to being MLB's fault for hiring Lottich. It is time to re-group and move forward and support this young squad and Staff.
Quote from: valpo84 on January 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM2. We were down 3 after cutting the lead down from 11. Suddenly, we can't make a bucket. Kiser rattled a 3, the missed bunnies, and oh the turnovers.
I'll take credit for this one.
Quote from: bbtds on January 07, 2020, 08:17:09 PMSo do we stop when we get back to 7 down or does SIU start hitting threes again?
Quote from: wh on January 08, 2020, 01:26:21 PMIt's called perfect 20/20 hindsight. The decision-makers are always wrong, and you're always right.
2020 would be present time sight, would it not? You must specify your 2020's (20/20)! ;D
Quote from: wh on January 08, 2020, 01:26:21 PMBTW I'm 99% certain the guys on the team aren't blaming their coaches either. They seem like a mature group of guys who take responsibility for their own actions. I think they'll bounce back from this, and play much better on Saturday.
Hear hear! Up and down all year is my guess. How that compares to the other possible 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th place teams will determine if we play on Thursday or not in St Louis.
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2020, 02:00:19 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on January 08, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
vu72, I guess we were talking past each other about Vandy vs Valpo and "we could have beat them" comment. I'm still not sure to what you were referring.
I was thinking only about them coming to the ARC THIS YEAR. Given the fact that Loyola beat them by 9, THIS YEAR, on a neutral court, I think it would not be a stretch to think we would have won the game if it actually happened.
We will know more after Vandy plays Arkansas and Tennessee. Cincinnati beat Tennessee by 12 and beat us in OT. We CAN play pretty well but aren't anywhere close to consistent.
It depends on which Valpo team shows up. The one that lost to Arkansas and Cincinnati or the one that lost to SIU last night.
Quote from: valpo64 on January 08, 2020, 04:46:39 PM
I too have heard enough about every negative thing that happens to this team is Lottich's fault. For all of you experts, what more than inconsistency can one expect from a young team? I too wonder where some people say they KNOW who was first, second or third choice for the head coaching position. When Lottich was hired many said it was great that we continued to hire from within. Now it is MLB's fault for not going outside. Some of you think you know it all. Talk is cheap, it is much easier to criticize than give positive praise. When we win, players get the accolades. When we lose it is the coach's fault. This consistent Lottich bashing is getting old. Get a life folks! Sit back, take a deep breath or two and relax. I too have been disappointed in some of the things that have occurred but you don' throw the baby out with the bathwater. Players and Coaches make mistakes, we all do. I don't know what some of you expected from this young, inexperienced team this season. And now we even hear that is goes back to being MLB's fault for hiring Lottich. It is time to re-group and move forward and support this young squad and Staff.
My relatives have heard MLB state himself that some people on this message board know not nearly as much as they say they know and have spread false rumors.
I generally think MLB has done a good job, but if your an AD complaining about a bunch of fans on a message board, you're losing.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 08, 2020, 06:45:39 PM
I generally think MLB has done a good job, but if your an AD complaining about a bunch of fans on a message board, you're losing.
Ain't that the truth! :thumbsup:
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 08, 2020, 06:45:39 PM
I generally think MLB has done a good job, but if your an AD complaining about a bunch of fans on a message board, you're losing.
Obviously he doesn't do it anymore but my guess is he found no value in it.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 08, 2020, 06:45:39 PMI generally think MLB has done a good job, but if your an AD complaining about a bunch of fans on a message board, you're losing.
Doesn't this depend on the setting of said complaints?
If he's calling a PC to air his complaints that's one thing but if it was a casual comment to someone overheard or maybe a direct response to a question it's a completely different animal.
I don't recall a PC addressing the message board.
...oh...and he's right.
Okay... I wasn't a poster when Lottich was hired but I had the same reservations at the time of the hiring too. When we're getting down to the very end of the bench for our hiring and hiring a guy that was on Bryce's staff for what ONE SEASON before he was hired to be a HEAD COACH? What even were his responsibilities as like the last guy on the totem pole anyway? Anything game plan related besides recruiting? It felt like a quick cheap hire of a guy who wasn't ready for the job and sans AP he has shown that to be the case. Don't paint me with this captain hindsight brush This hiring had serious warts and reasons for concern before the ink was even dry on the contract. it felt cheap and It felt rushed. Lottich is not a program guy any more than Assistant coach Dildy was or any of the other assistants that have left after a year for a better gig. This felt as much about getting the search over with as it did hiring from within. Just ticking another box of offseason business. You seriously don't think we could have done any better with a proper search? Isn't that how Missouri State found Ford? Isn't that how Evansville found McCarty (not the best example but still)? Isn't that how Drake found DeVries?
As for the point about Bryce laying an egg against Green Bay I'm still mad about that game but I'm more mad at how lousy the HL was that that one freaking loss kept us out of the tournament. That was the day I started hoping we could get into the MVC because I think we stand a much better chance to get in if that situation ever happens again. If not we're still in the best conference we could ever hope to be in realistically and that's great. But we have to start succeeding. It's hard to take these losses and then go on the MVC boards and hear about how Valpo sucks (They haven't done this as much lately but it really wounded my pride as an alum and I want there to be no reason for anyone to disparage Valpo for any reason. Unfortunately the only way to do that is to have a coach that can get it done. But I digress.
My main point is this: when Lottich builds even a modicum of the goodwill Bryce has built with this program when Lottich accomplishes and does even a scintilla of what Bryce has done and accomplished for this university he will earn a pass for the occasional bad game. That's all it was under Bryce. We would lay the occasional egg sometimes at really bad unfortunate times. If he had been this prone to bad losses I would have been upset with him too and wanted him gone but he didn't. The team was reasonably consistent (albeit against inferior competition) under Bryce. It would have been super interesting to see him coach at the MVC level. That said I have little doubt that while we may not have succeeded to the degree that we did in the HL we would be doing a whole heck of a lot better than we are now in the MVC with Bryce at the helm. Unfortunately we never got that chance. What we do have is a coach who lays more eggs in a season than a brood of prized hens. He lays so many eggs in a season he can feed everyone breakfast at Founder's Table for months. Bryce would lay one or two a year Lottich lays one or two every two weeks.
My support for the squad has not and will not ever waver. I didn't ask for injuries to take playing time away from players unlike somebody on this board. And we're ALWAYS going to be a young inexperienced team. That's the card Lottich ALWAYS plays. He'll probably say it as long as everybody on the roster isn't a senior. We have plenty of experience on this team especially in the starting lineup. The problem is that we have players logging big minutes that were massive recruiting misses (sorry to say it Mileek especially really he's the main and only one but it's a GLARING hole). Youth isn't why we're getting beaten. Youth isn't why we see the same issues over multiple years. Youth isn't why we get outrebounded every game or have scoring droughts all the time or dig holes we can't get out of because we're not ready. Why are we constantly blitzed at the outset of one half (be it the first or the second) in games? Lottich has an excuse for EVERYTHING and I'm just tired of it. Shut up and win. I chose a different life path than becoming a basketball coach and did not grow up around the game as much as Coach Lottich or some on this board so no I probably can't do any better. However, I'm not paid to do better. Lottich is, so Coach Lottich if your listening, please, Do better.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AMguy that was on Bryce's staff for what ONE SEASON
He was an assistant for three years.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AMI didn't ask for injuries to take playing time away from players unlike somebody on this board.
Man, you need to watch what you say. Anyone who has spent all the years I have supporting Valpo teams doesn't deserve that kind of comment. Why would anyone wish an injury on any of our players. Being realistic about players histories of injuries is another thing. I more than anyone wish Ryan could be back and do what he regularly does, WHEN HE IS HEALTHY. When he is healthy has historically been a huge if. It's a fact. It hasn't even been half of the 4.5 years he has been a student athlete.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AM
......As for the point about Bryce laying an egg against Green Bay I'm still mad about that game but I'm more mad at how lousy the HL was that that one freaking loss kept us out of the tournament. That was the day I started hoping we could get into the MVC because I think we stand a much better chance to get in if that situation ever happens again. If not we're still in the best conference we could ever hope to be in realistically and that's great. But we have to start succeeding. It's hard to take these losses and then go on the MVC boards and hear about how Valpo sucks (They haven't done this as much lately but it really wounded my pride as an alum and I want there to be no reason for anyone to disparage Valpo for any reason. Unfortunately the only way to do that is to have a coach that can get it done. But I digress.
.......
......My support for the squad has not and will not ever waver.....
Do you expect the Valpo fans and alum not to have "wounded pride"
on this board when you bash our coach?
I think we're getting away from the topic and we're treading up to the point of playground name calling, which is something I've always been proud this board has never descended into.
So let's clarify:
If you believe Matt Lottich is the right guy to lead this program as we sit here today, what will it take for you to change your min?
or
If you don't believe he's the right guy, what will it take for you to change your mind?
I'm posing the question so only fair I answer. I've been fairly clear since last year I don't believe he's the right guy to lead us in the MVC. So my answer to the second question is this: A NON-Thursday finish this year (which likely earns him an extension) and a top 3 finish within two years after that.
Quote from: bbtds on January 09, 2020, 08:22:49 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AMI didn't ask for injuries to take playing time away from players unlike somebody on this board.
Man, you need to watch what you say. Anyone who has spent all the years I have supporting Valpo teams doesn't deserve that kind of comment. Why would anyone wish an injury on any of our players. Being realistic about players histories of injuries is another thing. I more than anyone wish Ryan could be back and do what he regularly does, WHEN HE IS HEALTHY. When he is healthy has historically been a huge if. It's a fact. It hasn't even been half of the 4.5 years he has been a student athlete.
You weren't the target of that particular part of my post and it wasn't in reference to Ryan. That person knows who he is.
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 09, 2020, 09:08:31 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AM......As for the point about Bryce laying an egg against Green Bay I'm still mad about that game but I'm more mad at how lousy the HL was that that one freaking loss kept us out of the tournament. That was the day I started hoping we could get into the MVC because I think we stand a much better chance to get in if that situation ever happens again. If not we're still in the best conference we could ever hope to be in realistically and that's great. But we have to start succeeding. It's hard to take these losses and then go on the MVC boards and hear about how Valpo sucks (They haven't done this as much lately but it really wounded my pride as an alum and I want there to be no reason for anyone to disparage Valpo for any reason. Unfortunately the only way to do that is to have a coach that can get it done. But I digress. ....... ......My support for the squad has not and will not ever waver.....
Do you expect the Valpo fans and alum not to have "wounded pride" on this board when you bash our coach?
They should be upset with him, not me. I'm just calling it as I see it and telling it like I feel it is. It's up to Lottich to convince me otherwise and he hasn't done that yet. When he turns it around and we start to perform on a consistent basis I will admit that I was wrong and heap intense amounts of praise on him but praise must be earned at this level especially when you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Anybody else with his record of inconsistency and failure at any job would be feeling pressure from all sides so I don't understand why you expect Lottich's situation to be any different. Injuries happen adversity happens every year to every team yet despite all of that it seems like other coaches in this league are able to weather that and finish their seasons respectably. Why can't Lottich and why should he uniquely get a pass? I'm no fan of his but Barry Hinson dealt with tons of adversity every year it seemed with injuries and various tough situations at SIU and he still had his team ready to play much more often than not and had them perform admirably to top half Valley finishes. Despite this, he was unceremoniously fired with fans screaming YOU SUCK at him at his farewell press conference. Why? SIU has standards and he wasn't getting it done and fans had grown tired of it. They expect tournament berths and victories in March and those were not coming from Hinson. Why should we expect any different than SIU? What do they have that we don't? Nothing and we need to act like it.
I'm at the point where I'm tired of the losing and the excuses and I am ready for him to either turn it around and show us that he can lead this program to where it needs to be or I'm ready for a change to find someone who will. I don't understand why that's so objectionable. It wouldn't be so bad if I saw a coherent plan or even a coach that stands up for his players and takes accountability for the results on the court but every time I see a press conference it's always the same excuses and the same deflections and I just don't have any hope that he is the one who can lead this program to greatness in the MVC. Maybe my constantly calling attention to that isn't productive or helpful and for that I apologize but I'm passionate and I say exactly what I think at all times. I try to be measured and factual at all times but in the midst of mediocrity and losing that I am not used to and no discernible plan to move the program forward it's hard not to let emotion take over sometimes. I've considered stepping away from posting until the issues are fixed and it's easier to be positive but I can't quit Valpo basketball. I also can't just fall in line and say everything is fine when it so clearly isn't with this program. We should at least be defending home court consistently but we haven't in the Lottich era. That's a huge concern but I digress.
If you guys want me to step away because you feel I'm not adding to the board, and you think my taking a break will give you a better more positive board that you will enjoy posting in more, I will respect and honor that and take a hiatus until things are better and or I am prepared to accept the state of the program as it is. I have plenty that I need to be focusing on in life anyway. I love posting even though the Lottich era has frustrated me a lot but I will leave that up to you. If you don't feel like I'm contributing I'll go until I can. There was a time when I was a much better more positive\even-handed poster and my facts\fact checking were better. I know that and I miss that. Perhaps the quality of my posting has declined as well as my emotion has crept in.
To Native Cheesehead's question: A non-Thursday finish would be enough for me to endorse going year to year with Lottich for next year but giving him the security of knowing he has the year after next as well (a one year extension almost like an option year) but this team needs to contend next year. The youth excuse needs to go away forever next year and the talent level with Lottich's players in his system should be sufficient that we should be contending in the MVC. If he's not doing that and we are mediocre again that is a massive concern and I don't see how anyone can disagree that he needs to go. Maybe you can make the valid argument that he still deserves a little more patience... Maybe... but that must not should not and cannot endure forever or even much longer. He's had plenty of time and while it may be prudent to grant a little bit more time for him to put the finishing touches on his overhaul of the program and create the team he wants and needs to succeed he has to deliver at some point soon if we are to become the program I think we can become or at least remain the program we have been.
well said VUgrad1314.
I would add that it wasn't his fault for taking the job despite not being ready. Being young and jumping from 3rd/4th assistant to head coach in the Valley is a tough task.
MLB should take some of the blame as well.
I will answer Cheesehead's question.
He is not the right coach and in order to change my mind he will need to avoid Thursday. Following that up with a top 4 finish.
Valparaiso University men's basketball program has had a lot of success. You can't mention the university without thinking of the men's basketball program. Please respect the history and culture and lets not lose that. Takes decades to build but only a half that to destroy.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 10:02:35 AMif we are to become the program I think we can become or at least remain the program we have been.
Here's the issue in my mind--you are being too short sighted. Look, Matt has had some success, has had coaching challenges but he has been the guy for a total of four years. He now has guys he recruited and some obvious talent. Give him time!
Perhaps if I show you the record of a guy named Homer Drew it might help. I am not going to show the start of his career at Valpo but rather the end of his coaching, just before the floor was named in his honor--So here is the conference finish for his last SEVEN years, starting in 2004-2005 through 2010-2011 as follows: 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th,9th, 4th and 4th. Zero conference titles all while playing three years in the Mid-Con and then stepping up to the Horizon--NOT, the Valley.
This is our third year in the Valley. Give him time!
How much time do we give him? We've seen minimal, if any, progress and nothing but excuses. You could even say we've regressed. How long do we have to hear "we are a young team" and give it time? It's a yearly thing and it falls on deaf ears now.
Lottich doesn't play the games but he's ultimately responsible for who is on the court and the results. The results have continuously been mediocre at best. At some point, he has to own up and take responsibility for that.
Quote from: vu72 on January 09, 2020, 10:33:13 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 10:02:35 AMif we are to become the program I think we can become or at least remain the program we have been.
Here's the issue in my mind--you are being too short sighted. Look, Matt has had some success, has had coaching challenges but he has been the guy for a total of four years. He now has guys he recruited and some obvious talent. Give him time! Perhaps if I show you the record of a guy named Homer Drew it might help. I am not going to show the start of his career at Valpo but rather the end of his coaching, just before the floor was named in his honor--So here is the conference finish for his last SEVEN years, starting in 2004-2005 through 2010-2011 as follows: 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th,9th, 4th and 4th. Zero conference titles all while playing three years in the Mid-Con and then stepping up to the Horizon--NOT, the Valley. This is our third year in the Valley. Give him time!
Okay maybe you're right. But let's be honest I think I would be a lot less strident and prone to complaining\anger if we were finishing 3rd and 4th in the Valley on a consistent basis. That's solid. That's not embarrassing. That's pretty good. That's competitive. That shows we were a solid add considering the circumstances of the Valley losing its flagship program. There's room to grow and strive for more from there but where we are in that universe isn't anything to be ashamed of though I would really be hoping we could get to the next level and win some Valley titles. The Valley now is a little better than the HL was then, but nevertheless it shows that Homer Drew is and was a better overall coach than Lottich has shown himself to be. I was more patient with Homer because he literally built Valpo basketball. He IS Valpo basketball and until I could drink legally he was the only coach I had ever known.
Again we're at the issue of goodwill. It's fine to have some lean years and struggle at any time but it's much easier to stick by someone with a track record who has done well in the past. There's that confidence that he will get there again and we will eventually be fine even through our course correction. Lottich doesn't have that yet and he hasn't earned that yet. I have not seen what Lottich can be at his best (or maybe I have in which case yikes) there's no high standard of play from Lottich that I can point to and say "That's where he can get us if we just give him time to figure it out." We had that with the Drews we don't have that here. It's not fair but I am being harder on him than I would be on Homer and Bryce because of that. I think that's natural.
I think Mick is right that we are at risk of losing the momentum of what we have built if we don't get the ship righted soon and that is not good at a place like Valpo. That is why my sense of urgency to see this ship righted has been heightened last year going into this year. Maybe Lottich still is the man to lead us there but if he is he needs to start showing a concrete indication of that quickly. Losing to this SIU team this year by double digits isn't a very good sign and really hurts our chances of avoiding Thursday which I think is essential at this point to show sufficient progress that he is our leader.
ad nauseam:
Ad nauseam is a Latin term for argument or other discussion that has continued to the point of nausea. For example, "this has been discussed ad nauseam" indicates that the topic has been discussed extensively and those involved have grown sick of it.
Message to '1314, Mick, and whomever else,
I think everyone fully understands by now that you think Matt Lottich is the wrong hire and that he's taking the Valpo program in the wrong direction. I understand it from your posts today, from yesterday's nearly identical posts, and from similar posts after every loss. I understand it from your short posts. I understand it from your long, detailed posts. I understand that you think his hire is a system failure beginning with a lack of university commitment and support from the President and Board, coupled with an Athletic Director who makes poor hiring decisions. I understand that you are passionate Valpo fans. I understand you are tired of losing. I understand that you would love to be proven wrong. Last but not least, I understand it from constantly trying to refute your opinions, in part so your incessant negativity (or realism as you would call it) doesn't constantly rain on everyone else's parade. Oh, and to that point, I understand that you think I'm a blind loyalist who can't see the forest for the trees.
If I missed anything important about your position that you think needs to be expressed, please do so. Thereafter, knowing that Matt isn't going anywhere soon, maybe we can defer further discussion of this topic to the end of the season when we have more information than we do now. Just a suggestion.
Quote from: wh on January 09, 2020, 11:45:46 AMad nauseam: Ad nauseam is a Latin term for argument or other discussion that has continued to the point of nausea. For example, "this has been discussed ad nauseam" indicates that the topic has been discussed extensively and those involved have grown sick of it. Message to '1314, Mick, and whomever else, I think everyone fully understands by now that you think Matt Lottich is the wrong hire and that he's taking the Valpo program in the wrong direction. I understand it from your posts today, from yesterday's nearly identical posts, and from similar posts after every loss. I understand it from your short posts. I understand it from your long, detailed posts. I understand that you think his hire is a system failure beginning with a lack of university commitment and support from the President and Board, coupled with an Athletic Director who makes poor hiring decisions. I understand that you are passionate Valpo fans. I understand you are tired of losing. I understand that you would love to be proven wrong. Last but not least, I understand it from constantly trying to refute your opinions, in part so your incessant negativity (or realism as you would call it) doesn't constantly rain on everyone else's parade. Oh, and to that point, I understand that you think I'm a blind loyalist who can't see the forest for the trees. If I missed anything important about your position that you think needs to be expressed, please do so. Thereafter, knowing that Matt isn't going anywhere soon, maybe we can defer further discussion of this topic to the end of the season when we have more information than we do now. Just a suggestion.
The opening to your post struck me as very condescending. If that was not your intention I apologize but I really did not appreciate it and felt insulted. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm some uncultured uneducated idiot rube who needs correcting in the ways of the world. I have the same Valpo education as many on this board. It is an excellent school with a rigorous academic curriculum that challenges students and helps them grow socially and intellectually. A Valpo degree (of which I possess two hence my screen name) is a respected prestigious accomplishment that is well respected throughout the country and the world. Accordingly, I know the meaning and usage of many common Latin phrases that have made their way into the English lexicon. I don't need an exposition on one of the easiest to understand and most common ones. To my knowledge I have never taken this attitude with you or anyone else and if I have (and it is possible that indeed I have) I apologize for that as well but if that is where the level of discourse is maybe it truly is best that I take that break. Enjoy the season guys and I'll talk to you later perhaps but for now I'm out. As always Go Valpo and Go Matt. Prove me wrong so that I can come back and take the most delicious meal of crow I'll ever eat.
Quote from: vu72 on January 09, 2020, 10:33:13 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 10:02:35 AMif we are to become the program I think we can become or at least remain the program we have been.
Here's the issue in my mind--you are being too short sighted. Look, Matt has had some success, has had coaching challenges but he has been the guy for a total of four years. He now has guys he recruited and some obvious talent. Give him time!
Perhaps if I show you the record of a guy named Homer Drew it might help. I am not going to show the start of his career at Valpo but rather the end of his coaching, just before the floor was named in his honor--So here is the conference finish for his last SEVEN years, starting in 2004-2005 through 2010-2011 as follows: 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th,9th, 4th and 4th. Zero conference titles all while playing three years in the Mid-Con and then stepping up to the Horizon--NOT, the Valley.
This is our third year in the Valley. Give him time!
This can't be emphasized enough. No one is happy being at the bottom of the MVC, but I think everyone should understand the MVC is significantly better than the Horizon League that Homer coached in.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:05:16 PM
Quote from: wh on January 09, 2020, 11:45:46 AMad nauseam: Ad nauseam is a Latin term for argument or other discussion that has continued to the point of nausea. For example, "this has been discussed ad nauseam" indicates that the topic has been discussed extensively and those involved have grown sick of it. Message to '1314, Mick, and whomever else, I think everyone fully understands by now that you think Matt Lottich is the wrong hire and that he's taking the Valpo program in the wrong direction. I understand it from your posts today, from yesterday's nearly identical posts, and from similar posts after every loss. I understand it from your short posts. I understand it from your long, detailed posts. I understand that you think his hire is a system failure beginning with a lack of university commitment and support from the President and Board, coupled with an Athletic Director who makes poor hiring decisions. I understand that you are passionate Valpo fans. I understand you are tired of losing. I understand that you would love to be proven wrong. Last but not least, I understand it from constantly trying to refute your opinions, in part so your incessant negativity (or realism as you would call it) doesn't constantly rain on everyone else's parade. Oh, and to that point, I understand that you think I'm a blind loyalist who can't see the forest for the trees. If I missed anything important about your position that you think needs to be expressed, please do so. Thereafter, knowing that Matt isn't going anywhere soon, maybe we can defer further discussion of this topic to the end of the season when we have more inf
ormation than we do now. Just a suggestion.
The opening to your post struck me as very condescending. If that was not your intention I apologize but I really did not appreciate it and felt insulted. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm some uncultured uneducated idiot rube who needs correcting in the ways of the world. I have the same Valpo education as many on this board. It is an excellent school with a rigorous academic curriculum that challenges students and helps them grow socially and intellectually. A Valpo degree (of which I possess two hence my screen name) is a respected prestigious accomplishment that is well respected throughout the country and the world. Accordingly, I know the meaning and usage of many common Latin phrases that have made their way into the English lexicon. I don't need an exposition on one of the easiest to understand and most common ones. To my knowledge I have never taken this attitude with you or anyone else and if I have (and it is possible that indeed I have) I apologize for that as well but if that is where the level of discourse is maybe it truly is best that I take that break. Enjoy the season guys and I'll talk to you later perhaps but for now I'm out. As always Go Valpo and Go Matt. Prove me wrong so that I can come back and take the most delicious meal of crow I'll ever eat.
I talked you out of leaving one other time, but not this time. You can't constantly berate the program and university and not expect push back from people who feel differently than you do. When you do it incessantly, at some point people are going to start drawing the line. Instead of getting your feelings hurt by my direct approach, try doing some introspection. Start with this. "I am not a victim of some mean guy. I'm going to look past the tone I don't like, and reflect on the message itself."
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.
Well said, WH. But I will be expecting you and VU72's apology at the end of the season "when we know more." Or when you know something I've already known for some time.
Very difficult for me to give you any credit or take you serious when you are so off on this.
But I will refrain from voicing my distaste of Lottich as head coach of Valpo. My opinion is known, I don't need to continue saying it all the time. Point taken.
Now I know your thought process and how you really feel and believe it or not there are areas of commonality and obviously still areas of disagreement.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AMOkay... I wasn't a poster when Lottich was hired but I had the same reservations at the time of the hiring too. When we're getting down to the very end of the bench for our hiring and hiring a guy that was on Bryce's staff for what ONE SEASON before he was hired to be a HEAD COACH? What even were his responsibilities as like the last guy on the totem pole anyway? Anything game plan related besides recruiting? It felt like a quick cheap hire of a guy who wasn't ready for the job and sans AP he has shown that to be the case. Don't paint me with this captain hindsight brush This hiring had serious warts and reasons for concern before the ink was even dry on the contract. it felt cheap and It felt rushed. Lottich is not a program guy any more than Assistant coach Dildy was or any of the other assistants that have left after a year for a better gig. This felt as much about getting the search over with as it did hiring from within. Just ticking another box of offseason business. You seriously don't think we could have done any better with a proper search? Isn't that how Missouri State found Ford? Isn't that how Evansville found McCarty (not the best example but still)? Isn't that how Drake found DeVries?
Since Homer was hired VU has not taken the avenue of the national search. Yes, I know that the previous coaches were all Drew's and there were some voices on this forum that did not agree with this nepotism, wanting a national search such as you suggest. I can understand that point of view, but I find it very appropriate when institutions of our ilk prefer to hire known individuals from inside the organization. Circumstances around Bryce's departure did feel a little strange and perhaps not very amicable, but other than that and perhaps the notion that Rodger Powell turned down the job I don't really see the "warts" to which you are referring. Talking to Bryce at Homer's banner raising game I didn't detect any lingering ill affects. It seemed obvious to me that Matt was a very acceptable choice for the players and perhaps played a role in keeping the core group, other than Skara, together for that first season. It appears that Coach Gore must have also found this to be an acceptable arrangement, unless you believe he wants to raise his family in Valpo and just wants to keep his current job. I could see that as a possibility, but don't see it as a problem. In short I don't see the warts you associate with the process that has a better chance of giving us candidates meeting the standards of a Lutheran university.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AMAs for the point about Bryce laying an egg against Green Bay I'm still mad about that game but I'm more mad at how lousy the HL was that that one freaking loss kept us out of the tournament. That was the day I started hoping we could get into the MVC because I think we stand a much better chance to get in if that situation ever happens again. If not we're still in the best conference we could ever hope to be in realistically and that's great. But we have to start succeeding. It's hard to take these losses and then go on the MVC boards and hear about how Valpo sucks (They haven't done this as much lately but it really wounded my pride as an alum and I want there to be no reason for anyone to disparage Valpo for any reason. Unfortunately the only way to do that is to have a coach that can get it done. But I digress.
My point was sarcastic, I had exactly the same reaction as you had, not really blaming Bryce but being mad at the NCAA selection process that does not see the worth of having good mid-majors in the tournament. We do have to start succeeding!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AMMy main point is this: when Lottich builds even a modicum of the goodwill Bryce has built with this program when Lottich accomplishes and does even a scintilla of what Bryce has done and accomplished for this university he will earn a pass for the occasional bad game. That's all it was under Bryce. We would lay the occasional egg sometimes at really bad unfortunate times. If he had been this prone to bad losses I would have been upset with him too and wanted him gone but he didn't. The team was reasonably consistent (albeit against inferior competition) under Bryce. It would have been super interesting to see him coach at the MVC level. That said I have little doubt that while we may not have succeeded to the degree that we did in the HL we would be doing a whole heck of a lot better than we are now in the MVC with Bryce at the helm. Unfortunately we never got that chance. What we do have is a coach who lays more eggs in a season than a brood of prized hens. He lays so many eggs in a season he can feed everyone breakfast at Founder's Table for months. Bryce would lay one or two a year Lottich lays one or two every two weeks.
It's no secret, I feel that Matt did a remarkable job holding the team together his first season. Saying that anyone could have won with that team just doesn't cut it in my book. The trials and tribulations before the season and the mid year suspension (Alec was the heart of the team, but Jubril was the soul) could have derailed everything but there weren't many eggs laid in my opinion. We extolled Matt's time management, his use of Shane Hammink, the improvement and emergence of Max Joseph. Unfortunately the Peter's injury finally laid claim to a disappointing ending that can not be blamed on Lottich. I don't want to play the if, but, woulda, coulda, shoulda, card but my experience tells me that it really matters. Matt's second year of the program was built on the foundation of Burton and Walker. Burton's academic issues have to rest on the shoulders of the staff. If he was not performing in the classroom then he should not have been playing. The unfortunate timing of Walker's illness and Burton's departure all but spelled doom for that year and I seriously doubt that any coach would have made a SIGNIFICANT difference in the outcome of that season given the player issues and the change in conferences. Perhaps another coach would have gone down a different path and Burton would have never come to VU, but that is complete speculation. Matt's fault but not really having much to do with X's and O's. As to last season I will say again, does anyone on here really think we are a Thursday night team last year if just Ryan stays healthy, not to mention the rest of the injuries?? Do you really? Do people really not remember that we started MVC play 6-1 last year with road wins at Southern Illinois and Missouri State before Ryan went down? Where there games we could have won... undoubtedly, there always will be, I just don't remember or can honestly say that the coaching was the main reason we lost a game (my definition of laying an egg). We went from a semi-balanced team to a controlled pace inside reliant squad with little or no outside shooting, not a coaches ideal setup. Blame him for the fact that we had no Burton and several transfers that didn't pan out. The injuries generally can not be laid at his feet but the team attitude and chemistry could be his problem just more subjective for an outsider to evaluate. Now on to this year or perhaps last years post season, it looked like a train-wreck initially, player after player leaving the program... why?? Fans complaining about player's attitudes and team chemistry appears to be way off. This worries me more then the X's and O's and maybe that is why I am not as concerned as you are. Once Javon announced that he was staying it appeared the the pieces of the puzzle from a personnel standpoint might be falling into place. Clay and Krikke especially seem to be the real deal both in talent and attitude, Gordon and Robinson seem to have the right attitude and when healthy are good contributors. What I see from the incoming class is more of the same. To me this is more about team composition, created by recruiting and unfortunately injuries and not the X's and O's that have completely changed from last years high ball screen inside reliant offense to a more motion flex action offense more suited to our current roster. Unfortunately the loss of Ryan has again affected this team. He very well may have been our leading scorer if not for the injury. It's a nice saying but "next man up" doesn't often replace a scorer of his caliber that can open up the offense.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 12:16:25 AM
My support for the squad has not and will not ever waver. I didn't ask for injuries to take playing time away from players unlike somebody on this board. And we're ALWAYS going to be a young inexperienced team. That's the card Lottich ALWAYS plays. He'll probably say it as long as everybody on the roster isn't a senior. We have plenty of experience on this team especially in the starting lineup. The problem is that we have players logging big minutes that were massive recruiting misses (sorry to say it Mileek especially really he's the main and only one but it's a GLARING hole). Youth isn't why we're getting beaten. Youth isn't why we see the same issues over multiple years. Youth isn't why we get outrebounded every game or have scoring droughts all the time or dig holes we can't get out of because we're not ready. Why are we constantly blitzed at the outset of one half (be it the first or the second) in games? Lottich has an excuse for EVERYTHING and I'm just tired of it. Shut up and win. I chose a different life path than becoming a basketball coach and did not grow up around the game as much as Coach Lottich or some on this board so no I probably can't do any better. However, I'm not paid to do better. Lottich is, so Coach Lottich if your listening, please, Do better.
I am extremely happy that an alumni of your age (I assume from your moniker that you are a recent graduate) is such a supporter of your school's athletic teams! I don't agree that we have plenty of experience in the starting lineup, as a coach I do not see experience when really only one of those players on the floor played significant crunch time minutes for me last year. I don't know why Mileek has not progressed as a player, Coach Gore talked to me about Mileek his freshman year and from a purely objective standpoint he had what you would want in a player, they knew he was raw, but thought that he would blossom into a very good player for VU. Physically he is there, but for some reason the BBall IQ is still lacking (I hope we agree that Coach Gore has done a reasonably good job coaching bigs in the past). I think he has made a fair amount of progress from last year to this year so lets hope it continues as the season progresses. Lottich's teams in the past have been pretty good defensively and in rebounding, I don't know why you think these are systemic problems. They currently are problems but I think can be attributed to changes in style more suited to the players we have on the floor, but really can be a factor in the lack of rebounding and easy baskets we have seen. We agree that these areas need to improve and I think they will based on past years performances. I would actually like to see us go with more ball pressure in conference games. The MVC has the reputation of a slower pace conference and I don't think this works to this teams advantage, I thought we did better in the SIU game with even just token back-court pressure during parts of the second half. I also don't like the excuses, one of the reasons I think Landon Fox has the potential to be a great Football Coach at VU. No more excuses even if warranted (injuries, bad homer calls etc.). Shut up and win... agreed, I just have a little bit different perspective as to the issues causing us not to win.
We're about five posts away from someone using the terms "snowflake" and "ok, boomer".
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 09, 2020, 01:13:49 PM
We're about five posts away from someone using the terms "snowflake" and "ok, boomer".
Love it! ;D Only as a term of endearment I would hope!
FWAlum,
Thank you for this extremely well-thought-out post... You have brought me back and changed my perspective. I take wins and losses very personally especially when we become a punching bag for other fans (particularly some UNI and Missouri State fans on the MVC board) and I just wanted it to stop. I wanted to have the last laugh seeing Valpo on top quickly and silencing those voices and when it didn't happen and I heard those comments from people who did not know the full story and all the adversity we have fought through as a program over the past few years it hurt and since I couldn't argue with them directly I turned my anger and frustration toward the university because let's face it they have been slow to address the needs of the program although that really does appear to be changing. I hope it continues and the process continues to accelerate and we all eventually have what we want: a great team and conference-appropriate facilities in which to watch them play and develop. Admittedly, I took the next man up mantra way too much to heart. That's easy to say but when a player of Adekoya's or Peters' or Burton's or Walker's or Ryan's caliber goes down and the next man is either young not as talented or both it's hard to count on consistent production. I agree that Lottich has absolutely nailed it with Javon (Please stay) Clay and Krikke and the incoming class sure does look good but it is so hard to have patience when you see this slog through tough games that seem so eminently winnable but constantly elude our grasp. If we could just come out on the right end of those even a handful of times my perspective would be much different. I'm okay with being middle of the pack for awhile even bad for a year or maybe two if I see growth and it is there it's just hard to see when you get blinded by the emotion of taking yet another loss. Again, when I was there and shortly thereafter we were always (with like one exception) a middle of the pack or better team. Admittedly while I readily acknowledged and embraced the challenge of the MVC as a significant step up in competition I also severely underestimated just HOW MUCH BETTER this league is than the Horizon that we left. Holy crap... It's better in a down or average year WITHOUT CREIGHTON OR WICHITA STATE than the Horizon League is during most of its best years and that's BEFORE Butler left. And I'll be darned if we aren't oh so close to winning a lot of these games and changing the entire narrative of our season and our tenure so far in the MVC. That Loyola game was RIGHT THERE for us for example. It's just hard to see past the frustration especially in the moment of yet another loss when in my mind I see the same issues plaguing us but no way to fix it. The fact that this team counted (rightly or wrongly wisely or foolishly) on a healthy Ryan Fazekas to reach its full potential is something I conveniently ignore in my diatribes and polemics and that's wrong of me. You guys are right 15-20PPG scorers don't just manifest themselves on the bench. And again we are STILL competitive in most of these games. That has to say something. I just hate taking the moral victory and constantly patting people on the back and consoling them with "good job Good effort." I'm so hungry for results. I'm so hungry for a tournament berth (especially an at large because that would prove why going to the MVC was so so worth it). I'm so hungry for a tournament win so we can get off of 1998 already. it's a great memory and forever part of our history and it should be cherished but I want us to be more than that. What you see from me is ardent passion and passion can easily get contorted into anger and frustration when things aren't going well. I look for reasons I look for solutions because I care but what I have been doing for the better part of two years now since I watched that 5-1 start (I think it was) crumble into the abyss is far from productive makes me look like a delusional donkey and probably isn't the best reflection or representation of the fanbase. I have been told this by my parents as well as they have scolded me for how hard I get on officials during tight games. Let's just say I'm not always the most family friendly or measured in my comments. But what you see is somebody who cares as much or more as anyone else you'll ever meet who follows Valpo basketball. The trouble I have is that I'm also (and always have been) a deeply reverential fan of the MVC as a child of the midwest who grew up in a town with a mid major program, so the notion that we are embarrassing this conference that I have so greatly and deeply revered for two decades or so is very tough on me and that is another reason why my frustration gets directed at Lottich the board\administration and MLB because I feel like they're responsible for weathering the storms and adversity and making sure we aren't embarrassing the conference. I'm a hungry fan whose not being fed and I just want something to eat. I can't subsist on excuses and eventually it is Lottich's responsibility to build a team with enough depth to weather some adversity and pull out some of those tough wins but maybe Just maybe he deserves another year or so to make that happen. Maybe just maybe we are much closer to that point than it seems we are right now. Maybe just maybe the voices urging patience aren't just old fans willing to accept our erstwhile perennial mediocrity. Maybe just maybe they are on to something that I in my youthful fervor cannot see. Yes I am a recent graduate. The numbers in my handle are the years of my respective graduations bachelors and masters. I hope we do see more ball pressure and allow ourselves to play slower when needed because that slower pace is a reason why the MVC is so good in March. We need to learn that adapt to that and use that. You don't beat P5 teams in track meets based on athleticism. And yes Gore has been fantastic with big men in the past. Just look at Vashil and Van Wijk as previous examples of his track record. I won't hold Mileek's struggles against Gore. It seems like a personal problem rather than a personnel problem. I also took the adage that coaching decides any game under like 5 or 7 points way too much to heart. There are way too many other factors at play than to just blame coaching and I see that now.I just want this fixed and I wanted a quick and easy solution because I'm hungry it's easy (but admittedly lazy) to just blame the coach without evidence. And while I see plenty to be worried about (the same pattern of starting one half every game slowly rampant scoring droughts constantly starting on our back foot in a game and never seeming to be able to build and hold a lead for the most part) I need to give more to the players who did not execute. As for the hiring process of Lottich I was actually excited to see us try to make a mark independent of the Drews and eager to see it happen. A new successful coach so that we're truly a PROGRAM not a family legacy. The main warts I saw was that I really didn't trust the experience and resume Lottich had to make him a successful coach. I understood that he was well liked but I honestly preferred a proven winner with connections to the program like Tonagel (yes I know it was non-D1 but head coaching experience is head coaching experience). I was worried about handing the team in such a vulnerable spot to somebody so green and watching him learn on the job. His ability to retain the team except Skara gave me temporary confidence the gaudy recruiting star numbers of Burton and Evelyn even more so then the move to the MVC happened (which is something any coach would have struggled with relative to his usual standards I readily grant you) occurred and all of the adversity. Again I had a very reductionist rudimentary point of view that focused far too much on wins and losses only. Win: Good coach Loss: bad coach and that's sad because I'm more knowledgeable than that but I can turn into a total idiot when emotion gets in the way as you've seen as I have and as I definitely will again. I'm sorry guys. I'll try to rein it in and keep it in check more in the future and stick to attempting to be the factual reasonable poster that I was for a long time when I got here. I promise that's a more accurate reflection of who I am. I don't expect any of you to like me or believe me and if your opinion of me as a poster and person has irrevocably changed because of how I've posted over the past well year or so then that's my cross to bear but just as I had every intention of leaving and keeping my word both times I posted that I was leaving before being brought back I have every intention of showing you who I truly am as a poster and person. Go Valpo! Now and forever!
Quote from: valpolaw on January 09, 2020, 10:56:55 AM
How much time do we give him? We've seen minimal, if any, progress and nothing but excuses. You could even say we've regressed. How long do we have to hear "we are a young team" and give it time? It's a yearly thing and it falls on deaf ears now.
Lottich doesn't play the games but he's ultimately responsible for who is on the court and the results. The results have continuously been mediocre at best. At some point, he has to own up and take responsibility for that.
Invoking the tradeoff triangle, if you want to maximize the quality of the output and constrain investment, then you must wait for as long as it takes. What has Valpo done investment-wise to expect a quicker turnaround on success in a tougher conference?
Quote from: Valpower on January 09, 2020, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: valpolaw on January 09, 2020, 10:56:55 AMHow much time do we give him? We've seen minimal, if any, progress and nothing but excuses. You could even say we've regressed. How long do we have to hear "we are a young team" and give it time? It's a yearly thing and it falls on deaf ears now. Lottich doesn't play the games but he's ultimately responsible for who is on the court and the results. The results have continuously been mediocre at best. At some point, he has to own up and take responsibility for that.
Invoking the tradeoff triangle, if you want to maximize the quality of the output and constrain investment, then you must wait for as long as it takes. What has Valpo done investment-wise to expect a quicker turnaround on success in a tougher conference?
As an (admittedly hotheaded reactionary) member of the anti-Lottich camp who is on the path to trying to see the other side as hard as it will be for me, this is a very good and cogent point that cannot and should not be ignored. Everyone shares in the struggle right now and the university could certainly be doing more to create an environment more conducive to success just as Lottich could be doing more on the sidelines to ensure it just as the players could be doing more by executing down the stretch in games just as fans like me could be doing more by being more supportive. In that last statement I am speaking only personally for myself. Everyone else is totally entitled to your opinion. If you're frustrated and want Lottich gone I get it and I totally hear you but I am going to spend the rest of his tenure hoping for the best and trying to see the other side even if I think a change may be warranted at this point.
One of the issues in today's world (but was taught at least when I went to VU) is perspective and understanding not everything is A or B. There are issues with every head coach and Bryce and Homer (as much as I care about them) had certain tendencies that would drive us nuts (rapid fire TOs, long offensive draughts, as 2 quick examples). But, Matt has to develop his own coaching style and tendencies. He did not have a great deal of HC experience, true. But he played for some pretty good coaches and has logged way more minutes at highly competitive basketball than nearly all of this board. He has a Stanford education and played in that highly competitive conference. He knows what good basketball is. He is still feeling his way in some of the worst conditions any coach should have to handle for his first job:
1. Concern about keeping your star player (year 1). We so conveniently forget that discussion from when Bryce left. We wanted to stay in the program (aka Butler) because we believed it was the best solution to preserve the NIT runner-up team. Then the fun began, Carter appeal rejected, Jubril, and then Alec. Congrats Matt, have fun in Detroit (not Valpo where the tourney should have been). Bryce also took Jake, Roger and Casey with him. Matt had to build a staff, fill out a roster and then start modeling the team. Matt does not get enough credit for that year because of the sad ending.
2. We conveniently forget that by the time NIT was over, Bryce had moved on, and Matt was selected, recruiting season was over. Bryce had not worked a particularly stellar incoming class or built the next year up much. Hence Year 2 and consequently year 3 were already behind. The transfers portal is hit or miss (e.g., Burton).
3. Oh, and by the way, move up 15 conference levels to the MVC. This is the right move, but unlike other programs that moved with a core of players (like when we moved to Horizon), we moved in year 1 of a rebuild. There are no YSUs, CSUs, UWMs on the schedule. You all understand that's 6 exceedingly winnable games to start a conference season. If we go back to Horizon, we are automatically the favorite. No questions. My goodness, Loyola was a Final 4 team our first year in conference. UNI, SIU, and others have been mid-major darlings from time to time, too. The players in the MVC are higher caliber 1-12 on the rosters. Valpo's roster has had to build that depth. We might compete 1-7 without injuries. Years 2 and 3 were adjustments.
4. We can debate good and bad about last year's transfers. But, that also meant open spots. We lost 4 seniors (Smits, Jaime, Micah and Evelyn). Skill sets to the side, that's about 12 years of experience knowing each other and knowing where and what they're supposed to be doing on O and D. Watching our D, at times there is good communication/understanding on switches, help side rotations, etc. Those are complicated D techniques with a lot of frosh and transfers. Yes, it breaks down from time to time, but that is an area to watch closely and see whether we continue to improve. FW has discussed the O transition.
5. Krikke, Clay, JFL, Gordon, Robinson understand the game. I would not say that for a number of folks not here anymore. Some guys never got it that aren't here anymore. (Year 4). I continue to watch for the progress. We have been in every game except the one. SIU was a 1 possession game at 3 min TV TO. We took Cincy to OT. Let me repeat that, a middle of the MVC team took Cincy to OT. I was at a game in Cincy 30 years ago where we lost by over 40 pts (yes it was Huggins' best era), but we are not as far away as some look at this. We have to learn how to win. We all are part of a winning culture. But, individual teams need to learn how to do that year to year. And, it builds year to year. Look at that Arkansas game -- ahead til late at their place in front of 15000 screaming go pig soooieeeeees. Obviously that's what makes this year frustrating -- we are close. But, Matt had guys offensive rebounding late in a game to have the opportunity to miss 4 put backs, not oh my Matt doesn't know how to coach because they missed 4 bunnies. The team comes back and battles. Yes, Matt needs to find the right chemistry and minutes allocation earlier in a game. But, he clearly is making adjustments in game that has them come back, right. Again, it's not A or B.
6. As said in other posts, I want to see this season -- year 3 of the rebuild -- and what progress they make by the end. Skip Thursday, win a game, feel the bitter taste of defeat knowing you had a team that could have been in the championship game or won that game. No one is undefeated in the MVC. It is a meat grinder and will be all year. I agree that they need to start making home court an advantage again. We used to talk about Xs and Os on this board a lot more in the past. It would be nice to see more of that.
We all have a common ground--we want this program to be successful. Transitions are difficult when you have had a long period with a certain coach of family (e.g. DePaul, which has never recovered). If you want to understand more about those types of transitions would suggest reading the book Forever's Team by Feinstein. Interesting perspectives can be gleaned on coaching styles, and what happens during a transition of coaches.
Also, if you change coaches, it takes 3-5 years to recover. Own system, own players, etc. Even Butler struggled when they went to LaVall Jordan the first two years, and that program had some consistency of players. This year (LaVall's third), they are off to a good start (Smits factor)). Lottich is year 3 was off to a 6-1 start in MVC. This year is important because of the roster turnover.
Quote from: Valpower on January 09, 2020, 02:51:29 PM
Quote from: valpolaw on January 09, 2020, 10:56:55 AM
How much time do we give him? We've seen minimal, if any, progress and nothing but excuses. You could even say we've regressed. How long do we have to hear "we are a young team" and give it time? It's a yearly thing and it falls on deaf ears now.
Lottich doesn't play the games but he's ultimately responsible for who is on the court and the results. The results have continuously been mediocre at best. At some point, he has to own up and take responsibility for that.
Invoking the tradeoff triangle, if you want to maximize the quality of the output and constrain investment, then you must wait for as long as it takes. What has Valpo done investment-wise to expect a quicker turnaround on success in a tougher conference?
Finished a first class air-conditioned dedicated practice facility and in the process of utilizing a $ 2 million dollar contribution dedicated to men's recruiting. Added a $700,000 upgraded to the broadcast capability with more in progress (soon to be able to broadcast from Eastgate). Apparently fund raising is well underway for basketball arena upgrades. Too slow for you? Its been 36 months. There are more sports in the Valley than just basketball. Money to upgrade players needs to be spent on all sports, not just men's basketball.
Quote from: vu72 on January 09, 2020, 03:32:42 PMQuote from: Valpower on January 09, 2020, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: valpolaw on January 09, 2020, 10:56:55 AMHow much time do we give him? We've seen minimal, if any, progress and nothing but excuses. You could even say we've regressed. How long do we have to hear "we are a young team" and give it time? It's a yearly thing and it falls on deaf ears now. Lottich doesn't play the games but he's ultimately responsible for who is on the court and the results. The results have continuously been mediocre at best. At some point, he has to own up and take responsibility for that.
Invoking the tradeoff triangle, if you want to maximize the quality of the output and constrain investment, then you must wait for as long as it takes. What has Valpo done investment-wise to expect a quicker turnaround on success in a tougher conference?
Finished a first class air-conditioned dedicated practice facility and in the process of utilizing a $ 2 million dollar contribution dedicated to men's recruiting. Added a $700,000 upgraded to the broadcast capability with more in progress (soon to be able to broadcast from Eastgate). Apparently fund raising is well underway for basketball arena upgrades. Too slow for you? Its been 36 months. There are more sports in the Valley than just basketball. Money to upgrade players needs to be spent on all sports, not just men's basketball.
Another really fair point. Thank you for bringing this up. Valpo offers so many sports. We have a tendency to focus on only a few of our favorite or pet sports like mens and womens basketball or volleyball or perhaps soccer football baseball or softball but they're all important and we should strive for excellence in all of them. There are a litany of strong reasons why basketball should be first and foremost (and it is to be sure) but we can't totally ignore everything else.
Quote from: vu72 on January 09, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
Finished a first class air-conditioned dedicated practice facility and in the process of utilizing a $ 2 million dollar contribution dedicated to men's recruiting. Added a $700,000 upgraded to the broadcast capability with more in progress (soon to be able to broadcast from Eastgate). Apparently fund raising is well underway for basketball arena upgrades. Too slow for you? Its been 36 months. There are more sports in the Valley than just basketball. Money to upgrade players needs to be spent on all sports, not just men's basketball.
Not too slow for me as I'm not prone to judgement, but I'm certainly not the one that matters either. The question (and it was in earnest because I don't rigorously follow the details) had more to do with whether our investments have been sufficient (in amount and realized benefits) to produce quicker results and compensate for what I assume were declines in coaching salary and experience.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 09, 2020, 02:44:47 PMI have every intention of showing you who I truly am as a poster and person. Go Valpo! Now and forever!
Bravo young man, I have a lot of respect for what you wrote. I certainly understand your frustration and passion, which I share. Most Valpo fans in Fort Wayne know who I am and that I can be relied upon to find answers to any questions they might have about the university. As a matter of fact you sound like me talking to President Harre when Homer was starting to make the program relevant, winning the conference on a regular basis and getting to the tournament. Our debate centered around the question was it better to pursue a higher rated conference (presumably Horizon League) or stay and dominate the Mid-Con. I was for making the change and he took the position of staying, he eventually changed his mind thank goodness. In my opinion none of VU's administrations since that time have really understood the potential the BBall program dropped in their lap when we made the Sweet Sixteen run with that iconic Pacer play. March Madness fans are STILL reminded every year that Valpo made what was perhaps the most perfectly executed full court play in the tournament's history to win that game. Having been part of an old and long time Missouri Synod Lutheran family has prepared me for the slow paced conservative leanings that are part of Valpo's makeup, I just wish that a little more of the O.P. optimism would be realized in the athletic department because I have seen and was part of a program that has used it to great advantage at the NAIA level and I wonder why a place like Indiana Tech or Trine can do it and Valpo can't. The difference between the two of us is that obviously I am considerably older and I know many but not all of the people directly involved, in most cases they are good knowledgeable people that really have VU's best interests at heart and face the constraints that we lament about on this board. Believe me when I tell you that we would not be in the MVC if not for MLB. I really thought we had missed our chance when they took Loyola instead of us, but Mark's persistence really paid off and promises made to the conference will at some point force movement on some of these athletic issues. Some of the moves could be perceived as bad (cutting men's soccer and tennis) but I hope the good will follow. Continue to be that passionate alumni fan and perhaps we will meet at a game sometime in the near future.
Completely out of the blue and in the sports investment vane, I was surprised to see a tweet about new or redesigned Football offices?? Can anybody talk about that development?
Maybe I've been harsh as well.....
Being in Oklahoma, not very many know of Valpo. Of course the local weather man is a Valpo alumni and that shot took place in OKC.
They don't realize that Valpo ranked higher than Oklahoma State (where a lot of the Tulsa oil money graduated from) in the recent US News Week rankings.
But they do know of the basketball team. The basketball team is the advertisement for the university.