The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

I thought it was about time we started this 2020-2021 season thread.

Fingers crossed we have a College Basketball Season...

It looks like Sheldon Edwards is in Valparaiso now.

https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1290074647224958976?s=21

Welcome Sheldon and the new recruits! Welcome back to the rest of the team and staff! Practice hard but stay safe stay healthy and stay well! Go Valpo!

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 02, 2020, 08:20:25 PM
Welcome Sheldon and the new recruits! Welcome back to the rest of the team and staff! Practice hard but stay safe stay healthy and stay well! Go Valpo!

You didn't say "stay the hell away from me" and where a mask.

They just cancelled the Pioneer Football League season... Basketball and Football aren't played during the same season but I don't feel confident we'll have a basketball season this year. Or at least one that starts in November. Maybe they push it back to the Spring?

https://twitter.com/davereynolds2/status/1291445978893938688?s=21

Seems inevitable we'll head to a 'conference games only' season in January and try to buy some time until then. It honestly makes no sense to commit to anything until they see how the whole mess with sending K-12 back to school works.

If we have a conference games only season I am all for the STL Bubble idea. Let the students do their work online. It will be much safer for the athletes and will provide for a very interesting conference tournament (if we have one).

The only way that I see college basketball (and other sports, such as volleyball) working for the 2020-2021 season is to do a series of bubbles within the conference. Groups of four or five teams get together in a location after the players and staff have been tested several times during the prior week. They are isolated in that one location and play a round robin (three games in three days or four games in four days). No fans. Players and staff are tested daily within the bubble. Then they do a bubble with different teams from the conference a few weeks later. Not really sure if even that would work.

Additionally, if that method was deemed to be reasonably safe and effective, such a method may not make financial sense for conferences or sports that do not get significant TV revenue. Thus, you could see the ACC and Big Ten having some sort of season, but mid-major and lower conferences canceling their seasons.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 07, 2020, 10:03:18 AM
If we have a conference games only season I am all for the STL Bubble idea. Let the students do their work online. It will be much safer for the athletes and will provide for a very interesting conference tournament (if we have one).

Doesn't that prioritize college sports too much versus education? One thing that has become apparent during the pandemic is that online education is significantly inferior versus in-person and people are realizing that. Additionally, while there is the stereotype that college athletes are not serious students - that does not really hold for many athletes. Many study fields like engineering, sciences, business, etc. where online education is not feasible (due to classes needing hands on labs or not enough bandwidth to offer upper level classes in multiple modalities - in-person, hybrid, online).

Comments from MLB:

https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1291741272160571395?s=21

What would be competitive opportunities?   Not inviting jokes.  I'm serious.   

But the good news is we will finish the season undefeated for the first time in decades.

Quote from: crusadermoe on August 10, 2020, 11:04:36 AM
What would be competitive opportunities?   Not inviting jokes.  I'm serious.   

But the good news is we will finish the season undefeated for the first time in decades.

I could see Valpo's football program trying to use a model like golf and some other college sports use. Play a few games in the fall against very local opponents (likely not D1) and then try to play a conference schedule in the spring. The challenge with such a plan is that players may lose a year of eligibility for ultimately playing one or two games against low tier opponents.

I had a chance encounter with Sig and Emil this afternoon. I told them I was a season ticket holder and wished them my best this season. Sig replied with a chuckle, "Let's hope we have a basketball season." I agreed, wished them luck in the classroom, and that was it. Nice kids.

Quote from: vu84v2 on August 11, 2020, 10:46:33 AM

Quote from: crusadermoe on August 10, 2020, 11:04:36 AMWhat would be competitive opportunities?   Not inviting jokes.  I'm serious. But the good news is we will finish the season undefeated for the first time in decades.

I could see Valpo's football program trying to use a model like golf and some other college sports use. Play a few games in the fall against very local opponents (likely not D1) and then try to play a conference schedule in the spring. The challenge with such a plan is that players may lose a year of eligibility for ultimately playing one or two games against low tier opponents.

The eligibility issue only affects a few players each year anyway. Shouldn't be a major factor.

https://twitter.com/roccomiller8/status/1295436449504849920?s=21

https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1295436490206519296?s=21

Got a call from the ticket office today asking if I was interested in renewing my season tickets. They are cautiously preparing for a possible season. They said there would be some seating changes and could not guarantee where anyone would end up. Looks like they are going to try to social distance and trying to determine how much interest here is, in people coming out to the games.

Sounds like they are not sure if the season is on or not, but are at least making some sort of plan if there is one. I'm hoping it happens.

I'm honestly not sure if I'll be coming out for games until there is a vaccine for this. I will still be following the games on the radio and will still comment on game threads but it may be awhile before I attend another game in person.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 09, 2020, 11:56:06 PM
I'm honestly not sure if I'll be coming out for games until there is a vaccine for this. I will still be following the games on the radio and will still comment on game threads but it may be awhile before I attend another game in person.

I believe you can still watch them for free on the internet. At least the Valpo home games. There should be at least 9 conference home games.

Quote from: bbtds on September 12, 2020, 03:17:10 AM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 09, 2020, 11:56:06 PM
I'm honestly not sure if I'll be coming out for games until there is a vaccine for this. I will still be following the games on the radio and will still comment on game threads but it may be awhile before I attend another game in person.

I believe you can still watch them for free on the internet. At least the Valpo home games. There should be at least 9 conference home games.

I strongly doubt that there will be home games (conference or otherwise). Do you see teams making road trips for one or two games each trip?

My guess is that one of two things will happen for the Missouri Valley. 1. There will be a series of bubbles in which four or five teams go to one location for a long weekend and play games against each other. It is unlikely that fans attend these games. 2. There will be no Missouri Valley basketball regular season, but there will be some form of conference tournament.

The need to generate revenue, while maintaining safety, will drive these decisions. Traveling is only going to take place if it can be done safely and there is revenue to offset the cost. Without fans in attendance, this mean TV revenue...which is not huge for the Missouri Valley. Hence, my second option is probably what will most likely happen (the tournament would have more TV revenue and may be needed to place teams into the NCAA tournament).

We open in Nashville!

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1309236090813980673

Any talk about staying in Nashville and playing at Vanderbilt?  Maybe play the season opener on the 25th?

Vanderbuilt

Quote from: VALPO LI on September 25, 2020, 05:20:39 AMAny talk about staying in Nashville and playing at Vanderbilt?  Maybe play the season opener on the 25th?

Since Vandy owes us a game, it would make sense to try and make that date happens. It seems logical, but when does common sense prevail when scheduling Power conferences with Mid-Majors?

Quote from: VUBBFan on September 25, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Vanderbuilt

Quote from: VALPO LI on September 25, 2020, 05:20:39 AMAny talk about staying in Nashville and playing at Vanderbilt?  Maybe play the season opener on the 25th?

Since Vandy owes us a game, it would make sense to try and make that date happens. It seems logical, but when does common sense prevail when scheduling Power conferences with Mid-Majors?

Didn't they pay us something like $225,000 just to get out of the whole mess? Obviously "mess" would be viewing things from the Vandy perspective but do either they or we have any additional contractual obligations? Could somebody accurately bring us up to date?

Quote from: justducky on September 25, 2020, 02:04:14 PM

Quote from: VUBBFan on September 25, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Vanderbuilt

Quote from: VALPO LI on September 25, 2020, 05:20:39 AMAny talk about staying in Nashville and playing at Vanderbilt?  Maybe play the season opener on the 25th?

Since Vandy owes us a game, it would make sense to try and make that date happens. It seems logical, but when does common sense prevail when scheduling Power conferences with Mid-Majors?

Didn't they pay us something like $225,000 just to get out of the whole mess? Obviously "mess" would be viewing things from the Vandy perspective but do either they or we have any additional contractual obligations? Could somebody accurately bring us up to date?

I velieve the payment was to get out of playing at Valpo.  My understanding is they still owe us a game at Vandy.

Quote from: justducky on September 25, 2020, 02:04:14 PM

Quote from: VUBBFan on September 25, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Vanderbuilt

Quote from: VALPO LI on September 25, 2020, 05:20:39 AMAny talk about staying in Nashville and playing at Vanderbilt?  Maybe play the season opener on the 25th?

Since Vandy owes us a game, it would make sense to try and make that date happens. It seems logical, but when does common sense prevail when scheduling Power conferences with Mid-Majors?

Didn't they pay us something like $225,000 just to get out of the whole mess? Obviously "mess" would be viewing things from the Vandy perspective but do either they or we have any additional contractual obligations? Could somebody accurately bring us up to date?

This supports VUBBFan's contention that Vandy still owes us a game:

Valparaiso faces more scheduling challenges as Vanderbilt, George Washington buy out

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/valparaiso-faces-more-scheduling-challenges-as-vanderbilt-george-washington-buy-out/article_bff832b2-048a-5117-a3ed-855ed87966f2.amp.html

Why not just get a series with Belmont?

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 25, 2020, 03:19:24 PMWhy not just get a series with Belmont?

Or we could try Lipscomb and see Parker Hazen again.

Quote from: VUBBFan on September 25, 2020, 03:42:28 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 25, 2020, 03:19:24 PMWhy not just get a series with Belmont?

Or we could try Lipscomb and see Parker Hazen again.

I remember watching some brief minutes last year and he had definitely improved-some (still not to our earlier expectation level). Pre-virus I'm thinking Belmont was pretty well locked in with their schedule but either school should be candidates as quality schedule fillers going forward.

Quote from: wh on September 25, 2020, 03:18:18 PMValparaiso faces more scheduling challenges as Vanderbilt, George Washington buy out

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/valparaiso-faces-more-scheduling-challenges-as-vanderbilt-george-washington-buy-out/article_bff832b2-048a-5117-a3ed-855ed87966f2.amp.html

Part guessing and part reading between the lines it may have cost Vandy $160-190 thou ?????? just to not show up but we still have a contract to play there? So if and when we do play what will be our pay for actually showing? I think I asked this last year and maybe wasn't provided a clear answer. Asking another way-----if we had deep pockets what would it cost us to buy out our half of the contract? ::)

Excellent interview with MLB here. Hope our schedule will be good but honestly I'll be happy we have any games at all (with the caveat  that it must be safe for the athletes to play which is something I have serious reservations about). 

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/valpo-culture-of-values/


It sounds like we initially had at least one if not more non D1s scheduled but he says (thankfully) that those are not going to be on the schedule this year. Can we please make that a permanent thing? No more non D1s? Please?

I was somewhat surprised at how open and honest Mark was. He's usually pretty guarded and leaves me wanting to know more. Not this time. As for interviewers, if Paul Oren is the gold standard, Harry's not too far behind. An excellent exchange.

Quote from: VUBBFan on September 24, 2020, 09:01:22 PM
We open in Nashville!

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1309236090813980673

Looks like Towson is in a new MTE.

https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1313179017948921858


Lots of schedule's moving around.  We should be hearing more shortly.

"Raider Nation" Wright St. message board have the Raiders playing in the Illini Invitational MTE along with Illinois, Ohio and North Carolina A&T.
That leaves Valpo and Georgia State the last two schools standing in the Music City Shootout.

https://wrightstate.proboards.com/thread/3456/2020-2021-basketball-schedule

Pre-season guesses are out. Valpo getting zero respect.

https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2020-21/19951/donovan-clay-named-to-mvc-preseason-second-team/

Quote from: vu72 on October 15, 2020, 09:04:16 AM
Pre-season guesses are out. Valpo getting zero respect.

https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2020-21/19951/donovan-clay-named-to-mvc-preseason-second-team/

I know I say this every year, but I don't care what outsiders think about Valpo's prospects for the season.  Everyone on this board knows a hundred times more about Valpo than anyone who voted. And, if it's possible, I care even less about what they think of any other team. We need to conduct an internal poll as the season draws closer, simply asking our posters where they think Valpo will finish.  THAT will pique my interest.   

Got to find another MTE to play in. Scheduling is HARD to do. We seem to get tossed around these last few years.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1316760535036293121

Quote from: VUBBFan on October 15, 2020, 11:36:44 AM
Got to find another MTE to play in. Scheduling is HARD to do. We seem to get tossed around these last few years.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1316760535036293121

There were red flags when wright state joined the Illinois non-conf tourney

I have been very critical of prior scheduling efforts, but this year is an entirely different animal.

Does anyone know if Valpo is willing to (a) travel to games by bus the same day as the game and (b) accept road games with no compensation?

Why would we be willing to travel somewhere same day and also be willing to accept no compensation? Unless it's a local MTE that's idiotic.

Why aren't we joining the Illinois Bubble. Sounds like a good way to get some good games. That MTE isn't a huge loss. Those programs (except for Wright State) are pretty meh.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 15, 2020, 05:09:14 PMWhy aren't we joining the Illinois Bubble. Sounds like a good way to get some good games. That MTE isn't a huge loss. Those programs (except for Wright State) are pretty meh.

I think that would be a great fit for us, nice and close. Been trying to find an updated list of Schools invited and haven't found any. Hopefully they consider us worthy enough for a spot and extend an invitation. In my mind it's a no brainer. Of course, in the past I've been accused of having no brains

Quote from: VUBBFan on October 15, 2020, 11:36:44 AM
Got to find another MTE to play in. Scheduling is HARD to do. We seem to get tossed around these last few years.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1316760535036293121

I hear 3 1/2 hours north of us the Badgers are hosting their own MTE with none of the teams mentioned yet ;).  Several schools are starting to host their own MTE including mid majors like Howard, Milwaukee and Stony Brook.

Quote from: NotBryceDrew on October 15, 2020, 04:20:24 PM
Why would we be willing to travel somewhere same day and also be willing to accept no compensation? Unless it's a local MTE that's idiotic.

Because the market for getting road games with some degree of pay has gone to zero for this season. Every school in the midwest (and beyond) has serious budget issues and no way to generate significant attendance for any games.

Here is a conference scheduling model that you may see other mid-major conferences adopt. A team plays everyone in the conference twice, but no home and home. Instead, each weekend each team either travels to or hosts another team and plays both regular season conference games during the weekend.


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30117303/colonial-athletic-association-releases-limited-travel-basketball-schedules

Valpo's Eron Gordon Has Basketball in his Blood
MONDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2020
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2020-21/19954/valpos-eron-gordon-has-basketball-in-his-blood/

I really hope that we see Eron and Nick playing at full strength and injury free this year.  It seems that in all the preseason predictions I am seeing that they are not seen as major contributors. I think that can change this season and that these two will surprise the league with some stellar play in 20-21.

Quote from: FWalum on October 21, 2020, 04:24:44 PM
I really hope that we see Eron and Nick playing at full strength and injury free this year.  It seems that in all the preseason predictions I am seeing that they are not seen as major contributors. I think that can change this season and that these two will surprise the league with some stellar play in 20-21.

I hope the same.  I would expect to see Nick in the starting lineup with Eron possibly the first guard off the bench.  I guess Sackey, Krikke, McMillan, Nick and Clay will start.  It will be very interesting to see if any of the new guys play serious minutes early in the season.

Quote from: vu72 on October 22, 2020, 08:30:26 AM

Quote from: FWalum on October 21, 2020, 04:24:44 PMI really hope that we see Eron and Nick playing at full strength and injury free this year.  It seems that in all the preseason predictions I am seeing that they are not seen as major contributors. I think that can change this season and that these two will surprise the league with some stellar play in 20-21.

I hope the same.  I would expect to see Nick in the starting lineup with Eron possibly the first guard off the bench.  I guess Sackey, Krikke, McMillan, Nick and Clay will start.  It will be very interesting to see if any of the new guys play serious minutes early in the season.

Krikke and Clay are the only two sure starters in my book. Sackey, McMillan and Eron were all very inconsistent last year, but all could start. Nick should be able to start, lets see how he comes back from injury. The new guys are all a question mark, but I expect at least one between Goodnews, Edwards and Jacob to start. Either way I'd expect those 9 to get big minutes and hopefully we are surprised by the development/contribution of a few others (EFV, Zion)

Robinson Excited to Return to Floor for Valpo Basketball
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 23, 2020

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2020-21/19958/robinson-excited-to-return-to-floor-for-valpo-basketball/

Obviously last seasons numbers for Nick don't really jump off the page at you. It was easy to forget how effective he was when healthy. Let's hope for some more of those 15+ point games in the future. I think this team is very underrated.

I'd be surprised if Krikke and McMillian were both starters. I'd bet they will rotate those two similar to last year with Mileek starting and Ben coming off the bench then rolling with whoever is being more productive that day down the stretch.

From what I've heard Krikke has improved his game and really learned how to play the 4. Idk if the will both start but they will be playing together a good amount this season.

The MVC will soon find out that once Valpo figures out how to recruit against their conference foes, that it is never a rebuild, but a reload :).  We lost some key pieces, but we have some solid folks ready to take those minutes.

Eron Gordon did a podcast

https://twitter.com/_tbspodcast/status/1321108622047383558?s=21

https://twitter.com/mvcsports/status/1321844744067014656?s=21

Quote from: VU2014 on October 27, 2020, 05:29:54 PM
Eron Gordon did a podcast

https://twitter.com/_tbspodcast/status/1321108622047383558?s=21

I feel like the "full potential" part of the Valpo promise is fully exemplified in Eron. He received a great education from Seton Hall, Valpo and the example of his NBA brothers.

If you're interested in some Valpo Basketball merchandise. They have it for sale.

https://t.co/uys4sngljh?amp=1

https://twitter.com/valpobasketball/status/1323280216425435136?s=21

So what is our logo now??? The stupid looking knight? The shield? Just the word "Valpo," as this is the only thing of prominence on our bball uniforms? Or some oddly stylized "Valparaiso" combined with something else? We have no brand consistency whatsoever when it comes to our athletics/general art. And then there are the changing uniforms seemingly every season. How many damn logos can a universoty have? This is a mistake. The school is not establishing a clear, definable, and thus, more memorable brand in the minds of people who are more casually exposed to the university. Im sorry but continuing down this path is terrible branding for a small university which ought to be trying to maximize its exposure -- a big part of which is consistent, memorable imaging. Please pick a damned logo, put it on everything, and stick to it. Third-rate and so stupid its embarassing.

Personally, I think brown ought to be the dominantly featured color. The yellow is horrible.

Quote from: JBC1824 on November 03, 2020, 04:17:37 AM
So what is our logo now??? The stupid looking knight? The shield? Just the word "Valpo," as this is the only thing of prominence on our bball uniforms? Or some oddly stylized "Valparaiso" combined with something else? We have no brand consistency whatsoever when it comes to our athletics/general art. And then there are the changing uniforms seemingly every season. How many damn logos can a universoty have? This is a mistake. The school is not establishing a clear, definable, and thus, more memorable brand in the minds of people who are more casually exposed to the university. Im sorry but continuing down this path is terrible branding for a small university which ought to be trying to maximize its exposure -- a big part of which is consistent, memorable imaging. Please pick a damned logo, put it on everything, and stick to it. Third-rate and so stupid its embarassing.

Personally, I think brown ought to be the dominantly featured color. The yellow is horrible.

The yellow is "collegiate gold"  and the branding was redone in its entirety when Mark Heckler took over.  Mark LaBarbera has said on several occasions that no one knows us as Crusaders per se. They do know the name "Valpo" thus the emphasis on that name in our branding. The shield is also consistent in our branding. Check out Brown Field as an example or The ARC.

Quote from: JBC1824 on November 03, 2020, 04:17:37 AMSo what is our logo now??? The stupid looking knight? The shield? Just the word "Valpo," as this is the only thing of prominence on our bball uniforms? Or some oddly stylized "Valparaiso" combined with something else? We have no brand consistency whatsoever when it comes to our athletics/general art. And then there are the changing uniforms seemingly every season. How many damn logos can a universoty have? This is a mistake. The school is not establishing a clear, definable, and thus, more memorable brand in the minds of people who are more casually exposed to the university. Im sorry but continuing down this path is terrible branding for a small university which ought to be trying to maximize its exposure -- a big part of which is consistent, memorable imaging. Please pick a damned logo, put it on everything, and stick to it. Third-rate and so stupid its embarassing. Personally, I think brown ought to be the dominantly featured color. The yellow is horrible.

I'll disagree with you there... the Valpo with the Shield/flame/V below it logo is consistent across all items. That is the core brand logo. I think it is pretty common to have secondary logo's (i.e. the Crusader, which also has Valpo and the flame shield) along with more stylized renditions/options for fan gear. Look at somewhere like Michigan State where you have the "S" logo, "MSU" logo, the Spartan helmet logo, Michigan State written out, the more cartoon version of the spartan, etc... Whether you like the logo treatment or color choice is a different conversation, but I think they have actually done a decent job at establishing a clear brand.

Nearly all of my friends whom I graduated with from Valpo agree that our branding is terrible for the aformentioned reasons.

There is an overly positive attitude that sometimes surrounds all things Valpo, and this does us no favors. Sometimes things ought to be viewed through a critical lens.

For instance, its also terribly stupid for a Lutheran instiitution to be the Crusaders. How would Luther have felt about the crusades? Here's a hint: he would have hated them more than indulgences. The church promised salavtion for those who fought and damnation for those who didnt. By putporting itself to have the power to both save and condemn, without any say so from God, it blackmailed people into actions that were inherently sinful. But Crusaders it is!

We should always have been something like The Monks.

Quote from: JBC1824 on November 03, 2020, 12:11:54 PMNearly all of my friends whom I graduated with from Valpo agree that our branding is terrible for the aformentioned reasons. There is an overly positive attitude that sometimes surrounds all things Valpo, and this does us no favors. Sometimes things ought to be viewed through a critical lens. For instance, its also terribly stupid for a Lutheran instiitution to be the Crusaders. How would Luther have felt about the crusades? Here's a hint: he would have hated them more than indulgences. The church promised salavtion for those who fought and damnation for those who didnt. By putporting itself to have the power to both save and condemn, without any say so from God, it blackmailed people into actions that were inherently sinful. But Crusaders it is! We should always have been something like The Monks.

The Crusades were about defense not conquest. It was a justified reaction to hundreds of years of siege and war. Not to say all those who participated on one side or the other were good or bad, or that the church s reaction/view was 100% right (heres a hint, there was a lot of corruption in the church then of course). But the false history/narrative about the Crusades being evil is all to pervasive in society. I think Crusaders, being the defenders of Christianity/western values/society, is a very appropriate name.

But sure, lets be the Monks.

Quote from: vuny98 on November 03, 2020, 01:15:22 PM

Quote from: JBC1824 on November 03, 2020, 12:11:54 PMNearly all of my friends whom I graduated with from Valpo agree that our branding is terrible for the aformentioned reasons. There is an overly positive attitude that sometimes surrounds all things Valpo, and this does us no favors. Sometimes things ought to be viewed through a critical lens. For instance, its also terribly stupid for a Lutheran instiitution to be the Crusaders. How would Luther have felt about the crusades? Here's a hint: he would have hated them more than indulgences. The church promised salavtion for those who fought and damnation for those who didnt. By putporting itself to have the power to both save and condemn, without any say so from God, it blackmailed people into actions that were inherently sinful. But Crusaders it is! We should always have been something like The Monks.

The Crusades were about defense not conquest. It was a justified reaction to hundreds of years of siege and war. Not to say all those who participated on one side or the other were good or bad, or that the church s reaction/view was 100% right (heres a hint, there was a lot of corruption in the church then of course). But the false history/narrative about the Crusades being evil is all to pervasive in society. I think Crusaders, being the defenders of Christianity/western values/society, is a very appropriate name.

But sure, lets be the Monks.

I'm guessing you weren't a history major.

Quote from: humbleopinion on November 03, 2020, 04:00:18 PM

Quote from: vuny98 on November 03, 2020, 01:15:22 PM

Quote from: JBC1824 on November 03, 2020, 12:11:54 PMNearly all of my friends whom I graduated with from Valpo agree that our branding is terrible for the aformentioned reasons. There is an overly positive attitude that sometimes surrounds all things Valpo, and this does us no favors. Sometimes things ought to be viewed through a critical lens. For instance, its also terribly stupid for a Lutheran instiitution to be the Crusaders. How would Luther have felt about the crusades? Here's a hint: he would have hated them more than indulgences. The church promised salavtion for those who fought and damnation for those who didnt. By putporting itself to have the power to both save and condemn, without any say so from God, it blackmailed people into actions that were inherently sinful. But Crusaders it is! We should always have been something like The Monks.

The Crusades were about defense not conquest. It was a justified reaction to hundreds of years of siege and war. Not to say all those who participated on one side or the other were good or bad, or that the church s reaction/view was 100% right (heres a hint, there was a lot of corruption in the church then of course). But the false history/narrative about the Crusades being evil is all to pervasive in society. I think Crusaders, being the defenders of Christianity/western values/society, is a very appropriate name. But sure, lets be the Monks.

I'm guessing you weren't a history major.

There are biased accounts/interpretations on both sides. I've done enough of my own reading to form an educated opinion of the matter. No I was not a history major, but I've also seen enough of what passes for history lessons to know if you don't seek out counter opinions you will end up with a very slanted view of the truth. I never said the Crusades were all good and obviously a lot of bad things happened during/because of them. But history is messy and judging the past by today's standards is a dangerous precedent to set.

I think that today we are probably more familiar with the current Middle Eastern perspective of the Crusades.  Here it is from the Catholic perspective. Real History of the Crusades (https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4461)

The point is the church originally recruited people to the cause of the Crusades by telling them if they joined up, they would go to heaven and be forgiven for any sins they might commit in the war effort. The church also condemed those who did not support the cause to hell basically.

This was very similar to the sale of indulgences in that the church appropriated divine forgiveness as well as eternal damnation from God. The church had no grounds to claim it could forgive or condemn.

However, in Luther's eyes the Crusades almost asuredly would have been more egregious because the church wasnt appropriating and leveraging divine forgiveness and damnation for money, but essentially blackmailing people into fighting a war and committing sins that would imperil their souls.

The matter has nothing to do with whether the war itsef was evil or justified big picture to preserve Christianity or western culture.

It has everything to do with the way in which the church recruited its support.

Luther would have been through the roof!

Ladies and Gentlemen....
Feel free to bring this topic of conversation over to the appropriate forum, where your ideas and views on this particular issue can be exchanged ;)

https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2816.0

Back to VU2014's original post:
Thank you for posting this but I will pass this year.  I really do like the script Valparaiso tee but does this font match our teams cursive?

Gold shows on TV far better than brown, in my opinion. Gold shows far better in person at an event like the MVC tourney. I will leave the logos and history conversation to others.

Valpo has now posted their entire basketball schedule, including all of the conference games. However, only one non-conference game (Purdue) is shown. It does seem that schedules are still being cobbled together, so my guess is that a few other games will be added.

The Men's Basketball video intro for this season:

https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1337062659292803072?s=21

Yesterday, in his post-game interview with Lottich, Paul made a point about the false feeling of artificial crowd noise pumped through loudspeakers at these Covid games. Also, after watching online a couple games at the ARC with empty bleachers during the past week, coincidentally this video came up as a recommendation for me on YouTube today. So, I thought it would be a nice memory to share, a chance for everyone to recall what the energy of packed stands in big games at the ARC might be. I hope our promising freshmen get an opportunity to play home games in this type of atmosphere sometime in the not too distant future.

Hated those uniforms!  Jacob's shot looks a little like Rowdy's.

  Jacob's shot looks a little like Rowdy's.

That's what I thought too when I watched this. 

Quote from: vu72 on December 11, 2020, 10:20:46 AMJacob's shot looks a little like Rowdy's.

So there must be something wrong with his release point?  ::)

The Dec. 16 home game against Eastern Michigan has been cancelled, will be rescheduled for next year. VU looking for a possible replacement opponent.  :(

Quote from: valpopal on December 11, 2020, 11:08:15 AM
The Dec. 16 home game against Eastern Michigan has been cancelled, will be rescheduled for next year. VU looking for a possible replacement opponent.  :(

EMU-Valparaiso Men's Basketball Game Canceled
12/11/2020 12:00:00 PM
https://emueagles.com/news/2020/12/11/emu-valparaiso-mens-basketball-game-canceled.aspx

I love the euphemistic double speak that leaves the reader guessing about what actually happened. Sounds like it was written by the legal department.

This could be good One less spot for a non D1 or low level unexciting program. At least EMU is a MAC school that usually does okay in basketball...

Buck Futler forever!

A couple schedule updates showing on ESPN.com right now, but I haven't seen anything announced from Valpo at this point...

12/17 - Home vs. Purdue Northwest
12/21 - Home vs. Mount St. Joseph

If we lose any more games we might see Little Sisters of the Poor on the schedule next...

That's disappointing. PFW would be a much better choice. They should have passed the Covid protocol by now and I would think they would have wanted a warm up game before their conference schedule begins.

Quote from: tjjvalpo on December 11, 2020, 10:04:30 PM
That's disappointing. PFW would be a much better choice. They should have passed the Covid protocol by now and I would think they would have wanted a warm up game before their conference schedule begins.

Maybe we could give DePaul a game before they have to start an already shortened conference season?  Jamal Freedom Libertas might not be happy but so what.

Man what a f****d up pre season.  Maybe there should be like a board where you post availability for a game and then see who says ok we're available.  P5 should pay for games at their place, but take what you can get and just play.  Any thing this season will be with an asterisk anyway so who cares. 

Quote from: tjjvalpo on December 11, 2020, 10:04:30 PM
That's disappointing. PFW would be a much better choice. They should have passed the Covid protocol by now and I would think they would have wanted a warm up game before their conference schedule begins.

I would have to agree.  PFW would be a more entertaining match up for Valpo over a non D1.  PFW announced the team would pause all mean's Basketball on 12/2 which would be over two weeks from the 17th.  It would even be interesting if Valpo would take the 2 hour trip east along route 30 to play in Fort Wayne.   Maybe get a little more road game experience where they struggled last year.  Could be nice to get a guaranteed home game out of it for next year.  Not a bad way to think ahead and beef up a home schedule with the potential of EMU, Charlotte, UIC and PFW at the ARC for 21-22.

NOT ON THE VALPO SITE YET - UNOFFICIAL

12/17 - Home vs. Purdue Northwest
    Played Bowling Green on 12/3 lost 88-67
    Played Ohio University on 12/10 lost 92-72
Nothing on their schedule until January 8 at Michigan Tech  (Burrrrr)
PNW DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE KID FROM THE REGION ON THEIR ROSTER... WEIRD !


12/21 - Home vs. Mount St. Joseph Lions  - Does have the Valpo game on their schedule at 7pm
Lost to TRINE Univ at home 81-45 on 11/13
Played in an MTE at Miami (Ohio)...
Game 1:  Lost to Western Illinois 80-55
Game 2:  Lost to Miami  79-64

In the Miami game, they shot 45% from 3, 16 of 29 from 2 and 5 of 7 from the line.  Only played 7 guys, the starters all had over 30 minutes.


PS.  I had no idea that Mt. St. Joseph was in ... Cincinnati.  NCAA DIII - 1300 Undergrad, 520 Grad and 170 Doctorate students

Mount St Joseph University is on the bluffs above the Ohio River just west of Cincinnati on the other side of the river from Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport.


https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0964401,-84.6391646,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN-rNQyDdvFNDJhGwqLsL9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


The time I saw it on a business trip it reminded me of Bellarmine in Louisville which is now Div. I.


https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0744214,-84.6432416,14z

Just scrolling through the roster and noticed that Emil put on 25 pounds in the offseason. I wonder if that will allow him to get more playing time once he goes back from injury. Could be interesting.

Why should we be surprised we didn't try for a different matchup? We've never met a non D1 we wouldn't play... Even our best teams had pretty bad nonconference schedules. Why should things be any different now that we're struggling?

Not on the Valpo Athletics site yet, but scheduled on ESPN as follows:

Versus Purdue-NW, Thursday, December 17. 5:30 (Central ?)
Versus Toledo, Saturday, December 19,  1:00
Versus Mt. Saint Joseph, December 21 6:00

Quote from: vu72 on December 14, 2020, 04:51:02 PM
Not on the Valpo Athletics site yet, but scheduled on ESPN as follows:

Versus Mt. Saint Joseph, December 21 6:00

The game against Mt. St. Jo has been canceled due to Covid protocols.

Valpo find a way to play Miami Ohio!!!  Their game against a non D1 got cancelled on the same day.  Miami just played a great game against Bradley, lost by 1.  This would be a great way to prepare for your conference opener.

Bellarmine had two dates against Middle Tennessee cancelled due to Covid concerns on 12/19/20 Saturday and Monday 12/21/20. Could the Knights possibly drive from Louisville to Valpo tomorrow? They are a brand new Div. I team. They lost to Duke 12/4/20 by 22, 76-54 and Chattanooga 12/9/20 by 11, 68-77. But the Knights beat Howard University 12/6/20 by 21, 84-63.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bellarmine+University,+2001+Newburg+Rd,+Louisville,+KY+40205/Valparaiso+University,+Chapel+Drive,+Valparaiso,+IN/@39.8238244,-88.7469029,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x88690cbf89047a53:0xf581214bd2517928!2m2!1d-85.7055271!2d38.2184939!1m5!1m1!1s0x88119a6abcae3cdb:0x66489861033cba18!2m2!1d-87.0438893!2d41.4639394

That is not much different than Mt St Joseph's trip to Valpo

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Mount+St.+Joseph+University,+Delhi+Pike,+Cincinnati,+OH/Valparaiso+University,+Chapel+Drive,+Valparaiso,+IN/@40.2740381,-88.2109663,7z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841c99816c20779:0xad0437de6a70aa21!2m2!1d-84.6381573!2d39.0949575!1m5!1m1!1s0x88119a6abcae3cdb:0x66489861033cba18!2m2!1d-87.0438893!2d41.4639394

But we could have actually beaten Mt. St. Jo.  (in my best debbie downer voice)

Do we know who's side the COVID issues are on? Could we reschedule a game or are we the reason the game was cancelled?

Can the women's coach do double duty, coach the men too? Lol.

The women seem to play with such intelligence and purpose. They have a game plan and execute. A little bit more of that would do the men well.

Quote from: bbtds on December 20, 2020, 10:49:04 PMBellarmine had two dates against Middle Tennessee cancelled due to Covid concerns on 12/19/20 Saturday and Monday 12/21/20. Could the Knights possibly drive from Louisville to Valpo tomorrow? They are a brand new Div. I team. They lost to Duke 12/4/20 by 22, 76-54 and Chattanooga 12/9/20 by 11, 68-77. But the Knights beat Howard University 12/6/20 by 21, 84-63. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bellarmine+University,+2001+Newburg+Rd,+Louisville,+KY+40205/Valparaiso+University,+Chapel+Drive,+Valparaiso,+IN/@39.8238244,-88.7469029,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x88690cbf89047a53:0xf581214bd2517928!2m2!1d-85.7055271!2d38.2184939!1m5!1m1!1s0x88119a6abcae3cdb:0x66489861033cba18!2m2!1d-87.0438893!2d41.4639394 That is not much different than Mt St Joseph's trip to Valpo https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Mount+St.+Joseph+University,+Delhi+Pike,+Cincinnati,+OH/Valparaiso+University,+Chapel+Drive,+Valparaiso,+IN/@40.2740381,-88.2109663,7z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841c99816c20779:0xad0437de6a70aa21!2m2!1d-84.6381573!2d39.0949575!1m5!1m1!1s0x88119a6abcae3cdb:0x66489861033cba18!2m2!1d-87.0438893!2d41.4639394

Shhh Don't tell the schedulemakers that Bellarmine is a D1 program... If they still believe it's a non-D1 this has a much better chance of happening...

It's ironic that Bellarmine listed to your post bbtds and came to Northern Indiana.....to play Notre Dame on the 23rd. :-\

Quote from: VALPO LI on December 22, 2020, 07:29:00 PM
It's ironic that Bellarmine listed to your post bbtds and came to Northern Indiana.....to play Notre Dame on the 23rd. :-\

People like the green much better than the Brown except Wyoming, Lehigh and Brown (Ivy League). People who listen to me are easily distracted......................towards South Bend. I should have sent them up I-65 instead of up US 31.

Could this be our missing link to make Valpo complete?

https://twitter.com/jakelieberman2/status/1342490204326617088

Quote from: VUBBFan on December 25, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Could this be our missing link to make Valpo complete?

https://twitter.com/jakelieberman2/status/1342490204326617088

I want to say Valpo is slowly getting the Type of players they want into the program. Guys coming in can really shoot or at least hopeful they can hit at 35% clip. Our latest commit really is seems to be a knock down guy

Player acquisition, not a problem.
Player development, could be better but not a huge problem.
Player retention, huge problem.

https://twitter.com/fox_ball_/status/1341784759920418816?s=21

Palesse's Waukesha West vs Mukwonago, December 22, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2Ct4m_B6Vs


The first 10 minutes or so are the ending of the Waukesha West JV game.

The Varsity game actually begins about the 28 minute mark.

Cameron wears uniform #1.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Waukesha+West+High+School/@42.9681237,-88.349454,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8805a5ab6242b265:0xe40eabca3bc580c5!8m2!3d42.9681198!4d-88.2794162

Cam is playing the point at 6'4".  Could he be the answer to our point guard issues?

Quote from: vu72 on December 28, 2020, 08:39:07 AM
Cam is playing the point at 6'4".  Could he be the answer to our point guard issues?

Either or Darius DeAveiro. Quality PG play as a freshman is a big ask for anyone. It's my understanding that Cam is a combo guard who can play both. He's the first scoring option and primarily baller handler for his HS team. But that's how it is for many D1 talents high school.

It's my understanding that Darius is more of a traditional PG. I would say we haven't had a traditional pure PG since Lexus Williams (injuries) in 2016-17 or Keith Carter 2015-16, which is NUTS 🥜 to think about! We've had more of a combo guard running the offense or JFL. Sackey speed makes him unique but sometimes he plays a little out of control because the speed is elite. Maybe Sackey takes another step later this season or next season.

https://youtu.be/A_ZRlVIj6V0

https://youtu.be/MGTLqff5GCw

Sackey put up great numbers in high school but he doesn't have the size of either PG recruit in this class. I also doubt we'll see Palasse play much PG. I could see him as more of a secondary ball handler in the offense which every team needs.

Watching the film on Palasse and DeAveiro I find some interesting differences. Palasse seems to be able to score every well while I don't see too much defense on the other side of the ball. On the other hand DeAeiro dishes out assists all over the place and then is like a pesky gnat on defense disrupting the other teams offense causing turnovers. Something we seem to be lacking now that JFL is gone.

As to how they translate that from HS to Div-1 is always the question. However it seems they could bring some good abilities to a position we are currently weak in.

Sounds like there is an outbreak in the Athletics Department. The Women's Team is now testing positive, along with staff, and trainers.

https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1344063159494172672?s=21

Dang it. I'm going through basketball withdrawal and it isn't any fun.

My guess is the women's tests have more to do with people being exposed while home over break rather than being connected to the men's team since the timing is pretty far apart as the men are gong to be exiting quarantine soon so not necessarily an outbreak but more just another testament to how  widespread the virus is now and how more exposure is going to cause risks.  I wouldn't be surprised if more teams have issues due to the holidays and the players getting to go home.

I don't see a TV link for the Missouri State games on the Valpo Athletics website. Are they radio only?

Quote from: wh on January 08, 2021, 12:03:54 PM
I don't see a TV link for the Missouri State games on the Valpo Athletics website. Are they radio only?

I see the game listed on my ESPN3

The video camera link is added to the page schedule now. It's possible that Aaron waits until Gameday to add those links, in case something changes?

I'm watching on ESPN+.

Krikke looks famished. They need to feed him in second half.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really not a good sign when of the team's (best) player's parents are calling out the game plan. I've been following Donovan's Dad on twitter for a while and he is as frustrated at times as we are.

Maybe I'm being overly worried but I really hope we don't experience any crushing transfers at the end of season... again...

https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1348370385939689472?s=21

Quote from: VU2014 on January 10, 2021, 02:50:53 PM
Really not a good sign when of the team's (best) player's parents are calling out the game plan. I've been following Donovan's Dad on twitter for a while and he is as frustrated at times as we are.

Maybe I'm being overly worried but I really hope we don't experience any crushing transfers at the end of season... again...

https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1348370385939689472?s=21

You can quit worrying now and start accepting it as a reality. We are going to lose multiple parts of the future this offseason. That "culture" they built last year really diminished quickly. The players don't seem happy out there or seem they are having fun. The young group has a lot of potential but I think we might lose them if things don't start to show even a glimmer of success this year.

And now we're stuck for what? Five years? We're screwed aren't we? Everything the Drews built is going to be gone... :( :'(

Lottich has to go.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 10, 2021, 06:10:07 PM
And now we're stuck for what? Five years? We're screwed aren't we? Everything the Drews built is going to be gone... :( :'(

It's not LaBarbera's style to let go of coaches before there contract is up but this hire may have tanked the school's flagship athletic program. Valpo won't fire any coaches especially in this economic climate. He'd never admit to it publicly but the Lottich hire has largely not produced results.

I know we are coming off maybe only 1 or two practices within the last month and only 8 scholarship players but I'm tired of being disappointed by this coaching staffs tenure

Honestly, I'm not holding this year too much against Lottich. I'm sure there's things going on behind the scenes we don't even know about.

But outside of three days in St Louis last March, the program has made very few strides in the last 4 years. And the dad of your best player questioning the staff publicly is a BAD look.

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 10, 2021, 06:13:23 PMLottich has to go.

We can't even afford to pay out additional scholarships for players that might want to stay an extra year due to the pandemic. You think we can afford to pay a buyout and then hire a high quality coach to pull us out of this mess? It's one thing to hire from within if it was somebody like Powell but after being rebuffed by like the top two choices the correct choice would have been to enlist a search firm. Hiring some Johnny Come Lately from the end of the bench just to "hire from within" and "be like Butler" is not the way to go. Know how to "be like Butler?" That takes money and administrative commitment and it seems like we're lacking in both.

If we're too cheap to buy out a coach (see Dorow, Tracy) what makes you think we'll pay for a search firm?

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 10, 2021, 09:18:46 PMIf we're too cheap to buy out a coach (see Dorow, Tracy) what makes you think we'll pay for a search firm?

Then we're screwed... Get ready to be the Fordham of the MVC...

I'm not necessarily interested in a high quality coach. A mediocre coach would be a welcome improvement at this point. The team plays without design or purpose under Lottich, which to my recollection has always been the case. Have we ever seemed to run something of an offense while he's been the coach? Could someone who knows the X's and O's of basketball comment on this please? Very curious what a more informed mind would have to say about what they see from Lottich in terms of his acumen on the court — which is now publicly being called into question by our best player's father.

You bring up great points about the money and administrative commitment — very harsh realities perhaps.

Really wish Valpo had done more to capitalize on the success of the Drews somehow. I would imagine some saw our move to the MVC as being something to that effect. Despite being on board with the move at the time, though, I would gladly return to the Horizon League now. Don't want to be the Fordham of the MVC lol.

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 10, 2021, 10:06:32 PM. Despite being on board with the move at the time, though, I would gladly return to the Horizon League now. Don't want to be the Fordham of the MVC lol.

(https://images.app.goo.gl/YBvFo31zS3yd7ZQy6)

I'll firmly disagree on this one. I get the big fish in a small pond but where Bryce had the Team when Lottich took over those teams certainly could compete with the MVC and did beat MVC teams like Missouri State and would have more times had MVC teams scheduled us more. Ex: Marty at Evansville would only play Valpo when we were in retool phase (AP's freshman year).

I like the recruits Valpo has and recruited in next years freshman class but there GLARING holes in this Team roster construction. Example: point guard play and we don't have player that can effectively defend the post. Clay and Krikke can defend down there but you prefer they not do some of the dirty work like a Kiser role and pick up cheap fouls. Emil is was MIA last year (understandable freshman) and then this year he's injured and who knows if he'll just end up taking a medical redshirt or how he'll look.

The one thing that baffles me is the over reliance on the 3 point shot with our team. We have one dead eye 3 point shooter in Barrett (only a spot up shooter for now) and a lot of guys who are capable but not being able to hit at. 40% or above clip consistently. It was nice to see Clay heated up from 3 on Saturday. JO can hit 3s particularly from the corner in catch and shoot situation but his biggest issue right now is rebounding and defense vs stronger and guys with more length. Not as worried about JO because he will add strength and will pick it up. As was mentioned he was always the biggest kid on the court so the transition will probably take longer but I like what I've seen from him and see the potential. I still have a hard following what we're trying to do on offense. It's a whole lot of great individual shots but not an offense getting guys easy or high % shots to set them up. That is my biggest frustration with Lottich's "system" because I don't know what their trying to do half the time. I'm just a fan and not an expert but I've seen enough basketball to know when the offense doesn't look efficient.

Big fish in a small pond exactly.

Yes, Bryce's teams could compete with those from the MVC. However... Bryce is no longer Valpo's coach. Lottich is. And Lottich's teams have proven incapable of consitently competing inside the MVC. Bryce Drew is not walking through that door, my friend. This is an unfortunate new era.

There are some bright spots on the roster and in the most recent recruiting class.

One of the biggest reasons I believe the program must move on from Lottich now, though, is Clay's father being publicly critical. What a terrible sign... if Donavon's dad feels Lottich's game planning is crap, I think there's a fair chance Donavon isn't thrilled with it either. And if the team's best player and someone who is likely a team leader feels this way, I think its also safe to say others on the roster do as well. Lottich may have "lost" the locker room at this point. And this may be becoming a trend, given all of our transfers over the past few years.

This program simply cannot stand to suffer more high profile transfers while in what we hope to be just a retooling phase. If we lose Clay...

Again, no X's and O's expert here, but I'd guess the reliance on the three is due to our inability to penetrate, particularly at the PG position. Opposing defenses seem to sag off Sackey so much that despite his blazing speed (his only meaningful attribute), it is nearly impossible for him to get past his defender in order to cause the defense to cave and thus leave open shooters somewhere out on the perimeter. I'm sure Sackey is a nice kid and everything, but he appears to be way in over his head playing college basketball.

Ya, I don't understand it either. That's why I would be so interested for someone who knows the game better than I do to break down what they're seeing. Is it really as bad as it looks?

I'm clueless as to what the team is trying to do on offense half the time, as well. Haha efficient they are not.

I wouldn't want to go back to the HL.

Imagine going back with our tail between our legs and getting beat all the time by those teams we used to destroy and talk crap too......

Not a chance I would advocate returning to the HL even though they've made an addition I really liked and advocated for in the past with Robert Morris. I've wanted Valpo in the MVC for too long for that. But we NEED to get our act together FAST. No more "Young team" no more "Adjustment period." The time for results is NOW. We were in a better position as a program than Loyola was when they made the jump and now they're one of the best teams in the conference. They committed and they got better and are now in a position to pass us by if a spot in another league opens up: A team we've dominated for most of my life when we've played them. We've now been in the league as long as Loyola has when their turnaround became apparent. No more excuses. Time to win. If there's no commitment I would like to know that so that I can stop caring so much and try to enjoy Valpo in the MVC for what it is without any hope of it actually getting any better.

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 11, 2021, 12:59:53 AM

Yes, Bryce's teams could compete with those from the MVC. However... Bryce is no longer Valpo's coach. Lottich is. And Lottich's teams have proven incapable of consitently competing inside the MVC. Bryce Drew is not walking through that door, my friend. This is an unfortunate new era.

There are some bright spots on the roster and in the most recent recruiting class.

...

This program simply cannot stand to suffer more high profile transfers while in what we hope to be just a retooling phase. If we lose Clay...

Clearly, we all want the team to do well, and it is possible in a year or two VU will move on from Coach Lottich. Yet we have to face the facts. Given the transfer of JFL and the COVID-19 upheaval, was anyone really expecting they would be competing for first place in the MVC this year? I doubt it.

There is a difference between being competitive and competing for first place. Under Lottich, the team has gone 6-12, 7-11 and 9-9 in conference. There was also the nice run in the MVC tournament last year. That surely indicates they are competitive in the MVC, a conference that top to bottom is way better than the Horizon League. Would they be competing for first place this year if JFL stayed and they had their regular practice schedule? Maybe.

In addition, the recruiting has gone reasonably well for Lottich.  Surely it would be tough for almost any coach to maintain the level of success that happened under decades of the Drews. Finally, I doubt that the AD wants to pay a buyout in the era of fiscal austerity. Thus, it is hard for any athletic director to fire a coach that has recruited solid players and shown improvement in a tougher conference.

On a more positive note, happy birthday to Connie! 100!

https://twitter.com/valpoalumni/status/1348682664254074886?s=21

Quote from: VU2014 on January 11, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
On a more positive note, happy birthday to Connie! 100!

https://twitter.com/valpoalumni/status/1348682664254074886?s=21

Just happen to know her well!  She is my Godmother!  Sharp as a tack.  You all have probably walked by her house on Linwood.  It is a Frank Lloyd Wright style. Wonderful lady and die hard Valpo basketball fan!

Yes, JFL transferred, and any reasonable person would have expected this to negatively impact the team's record. However, why did he leave? Could it have had something to do with game-planning, as Donovan's father, and very likely Donovan believe to be a problem? Surely, Lottich deserves some of the blame for the loss of JFL and the myriad of outgoing transfers the program has suffered during his brief and disappointing tenure. Or does he get off scot-free in your evaluation?

Covid is not a viable excuse. Covid did not prevent all the teams that have beaten us this year from doing so. We have a single D1 victory, coming at the expense of SIUE.

Again, I'm not necessarily married to the idea of outright excellence, particularly in light of how poorly we have performed since joining the MVC. I would settle for far less. Mediocracy, respectability, general competativeness would be welcomed.

Yes, the team has a last place and second to last place finish to "boast" of, as well as one .500 season, and a flash in the pan run during a conference tournament that ultimatley ended in defeat.... What you discount entirely however is the team's performance thus far this season, where again, through ten games we have one D1 win. This season does actually count you know.

In my opinion, Valpo would not be competing for first place if JFL had stayed. The team would have still lost its best shooter and second leading scorer in Fazekas, in addition to Kiser, who played the best basketball of his career during the MVC tournament and was one of our most efficient players throughout the regular season. Neither of these players' production has been replaced.

And there are glaring roster deficiencies JFL could not have possibly covered up so well as to vault Valpo into competition for the top seed in the conference. To say we would still not have a true, reasonably capable point guard in this scenario is an understatment, Sackey being a terrible disapointment. We would still suffer greatly from our "bigs" inability to rebound the basketball. Missouri State out-rebounded us by 22 over the course of the past two games. Then there is the non-existent interior defense and terribly inefficient shooting.

While I'm optimistic about our incoming recruits next season as well, how many of our highly touted recruits have either fizzled out entirely or failed to live up to expectations? And while Krikke and Clay are points of encouragement, neither has played so well as to play us out of our current predicament -- which is abjectly aweful (one D1 win, over SIUE). We also have lost many players to transfer, and now it appears Donovan is unhappy with the coach and perhaps the program overall.

Once more, this is not an appeal for excellence, but competativeness, something we appear to define very differently. I would imagine that if the Valpo fanbase were polled and asked if the men's basketball program has been "competative" since joining the MVC, the vast majority would answer "no." A last place finish, a second to last place finish, a .500 season albeit with a tournament run, and now, what appears to be the makings of another bottom of the barrel finish.

In accordance with what is financially viable for the university, Lottich absolutely must go, the sooner the better. No one is advocating for the school to go under in order to fire Matt Lottich.

Lottich has apparently not recruited solid enough players, or at least been able to retain them, because the team is now floundering. And it remains too early to rest all hopes on recruits who have yet to play a minute of college basketball.

Definitionally, there has been no improvement, the team appearing worse this year than it has any season since we joined the MVC.

1824, I appreciate your passion and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I was on campus when there were calls to fire Homer Drew. Homer went something like 9-47 in conference play his first four years; that was in the old Mid-Con which is not as tough as the MVC. That was a different era the cupboard was pretty bare, yet many people wondered how Homer wasn't fired. His record improved to 7-9 record in his fifth year.

Let's say Lottich was fired at the end of last year - we have no way of knowing if the next coach would have been a Walter McCarty or a Darian DeVries, or if there would be another three years of additional rebuilding.

Specific to Lottich, not that I'm satisfied with the current status, yet the evidence shows that his conference record improved over the three years in the MVC. Last year's 9-9 isn't great, yet it is competitive. If any of us were the AD, we would probably do the same thing. See where things stand record-wise and program-wise at the end of the year, and make a decision then.   

The difference was when Homer took over, he was taking over a horrible program.  The guy before Homer went 84-138.

Lottich took over a program coming off a NIT Runner up championship and going 124-49. 

Lottich taking over a great tradition of winning and Homer did not.   

When Northern Kentucky jumped from A-Sun to Horizon they went out and spent a lot of money getting a good coach with experience.  That coach did a good job and advanced. 

We did the exact opposite.  Also, Lottich not landing another head coaching job after his contract runs up at Valpo.  At least not right away. 

I know that if Lottich had been fired at the end of last season, the chances of out best player's father now being publicly critical of the coach, which is likely indicative of a much larger problem than one dissatisfied parent, would be much less than they are: which is 100%.

That's because it has already happened, under Matt Lottich.

Think of all the players we have lost to transfer under Lottich. Now our best player's father is being publcily critical? These are not signs the coach is doing a good job. How will you feel if Clay ends up deciding to transfer too?

OKmick brings up an excellent point. Please consider the state of the program when Lottich took over, and the state it is in now.

The "improvement" you cited has been marginal, if not entirely meanigless. The win total increased by one from Valpo's first year in the MVC to the second, and then an additional two wins from year two to year three. You also failed to make any mention of this year's team -- which is by no means poised to improve upon last year's conference record. Far more likely is a return to the very bottom of the conference standings.

We have had one competative season since joining the MVC. However, our fourth year in the conference is well underway. To expect this group to establish itself as a competative team during conference play is optimistic. Thus, we will have had three non-competative seasons to offset the one competative season. This does not constitute consitently competing, the one competative season out of four being an abberation.

While I feel firing Lottich as soon as is reasonably possible to be the best path forward for the program, firing him at the end of the season seems reasonable. I'm simply afraid the longer he remains the coach the greater our chance of losing another high profile transfer such as Clay becomes. This team would suffer mightily if Clay were to jump ship too.

The College football championship was won last night. 

Some say it was won on signing day last February.

The team with the best players usually wins

There was a time that our bench players would start on the 2nd,3rd and 4th place teams in our conference.  Now I dont know if our starters would start on any other mvc team. Before Lottich, our entire program could have been 1st and 2nd team all conference.  One year our average conference win margin was 20. 

Now we consider .500 a good year. 

Point is we need better players.  Lottich needs better players.  Lottich also needs to do a better job with the players he recruited. 

Everyone is complaining about the offense.... Which i find hilarious.   

We scored 68 points both games this weekend.  72-75 points is what we need to score every game to win games if we are playing defense the way Lottich wants us to play.  Our defense is what sucks right now.   At points of both games this weekend it was kind of embarrassing how many open looks we gave, how many times we allowed the ball to enter to deep in the post, or our help side defense was slow to react. 

So we need to score 5-7 more points a game.   Seems like just having more practice time will get us there.   Defensive improvement is the #1 priority right now and anybody argues differently clearly knows nothing about basketball. 

To all of you being so critical:  Do you realize that MO. ST. had already played 6 conference games and we had played ZERO!  Some of these comments are way out of line in light of how many practices and games we have under our belt so far this season .  I would say we would be in a much better position if  we already had 6 conference games under our belt along with a good number of practices with the entire, healthy roster.  I think some of these comments are not being fair to Coach under these conditions.  Then add in the loss of JFL at the point.  Let's get real here.

Quote from: valpo64 on January 12, 2021, 02:30:15 PM
To all of you being so critical:  Do you realize that MO. ST. had already played 6 conference games and we had played ZERO!  Some of these comments are way out of line in light of how many practices and games we have under our belt so far this season .  I would say we would be in a much better position if  we already had 6 conference games under our belt along with a good number of practices with the entire, healthy roster.  I think some of these comments are not being fair to Coach under these conditions.  Then add in the loss of JFL at the point.  Let's get real here.

It's a combo of issues. Yes, the performance has not been up to what we expect/hope for. The reality is as you state, this is not a true picture of the potential of this team for many reasons.   We expected leadership from our fifth year seniors and we have gotten basicly none. Nick is missing, Mileek may have finally arrived, Eron has been inconsistent and Zion is AWOL.  Add to that injuries to the foreign guys and we are playing WAY short handed and relying on freshman.  We are getting results accordingly.

Not good and it will be very difficult to turn this ship around for the same reasons. 

https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1349098912188162049?s=21

Quote from: vu72 on January 12, 2021, 02:51:46 PM

Quote from: valpo64 on January 12, 2021, 02:30:15 PMTo all of you being so critical:  Do you realize that MO. ST. had already played 6 conference games and we had played ZERO!  Some of these comments are way out of line in light of how many practices and games we have under our belt so far this season .  I would say we would be in a much better position if  we already had 6 conference games under our belt along with a good number of practices with the entire, healthy roster.  I think some of these comments are not being fair to Coach under these conditions.  Then add in the loss of JFL at the point.  Let's get real here.

It's a combo of issues. Yes, the performance has not been up to what we expect/hope for. The reality is as you state, this is not a true picture of the potential of this team for many reasons.   We expected leadership from our fifth year seniors and we have gotten basicly none. Nick is missing, Mileek may have finally arrived, Eron has been inconsistent and Zion is AWOL.  Add to that injuries to the foreign guys and we are playing WAY short handed and relying on freshman.  We are getting results accordingly. Not good and it will be very difficult to turn this ship around for the same reasons.

I'm most concerned with how we keep our best players from transferring out and continuing the negative cycle. Kids want to win quickly or they'll go somewhere else where they can. I don't know if we'll ever get out of this hole...

I find Valpo's offense hilarious, as well.

Hate to break it to you "coach," but our offense sucks just as much as our defense. As a team we're shooting 43% from the field and below 30% from three -- which is objectively terrible and simply must improve if this group has any chance of even marginally turning things around.

Our overall points per game average is well below average as well. Furthermore, if you remove from consideration the two games we played against non-D1 oppenents, when we had our highest point totals and actually shot the ball well, the numbers are downright embarassing.

Thus suggesting the offense has not been part of the problem is absolute nonsense, regardless of whatever basketball knowledge you claim to have...

Ok, we dont have as many games under our belt as MO. But regarding the games we do have under our belt, how has the team performed in those games? We have a single victory over D1 oppenents through ten games! And for many of the games we have played, we have had a largely healthy roster; the games against MO have been an exception really.

Does Lottich take no blame for the loss of JFL and the other transfers?

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 12, 2021, 11:16:49 PMHate to break it to you "coach,"
...
regardless of whatever basketball knowledge you claim to have...

The rest of your post was a good analysis, but lay off the personal attacks on other posters.

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 12, 2021, 11:16:49 PMDoes Lottich take no blame for the loss of JFL and the other transfers?

I sure don't blame Lottich for JFL transferring.  He give him the keys to the team.  He could shoot whenever he wanted, made him the "leader" which resulted in JFL being named First Team all conference. Lots of attention.  That wasn't enough for the young man and his handlers. That is not on Coach.  As for the "others", who do you miss? I didn't think so.

Quote from: vu72 on January 13, 2021, 08:16:42 AM

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 12, 2021, 11:16:49 PMDoes Lottich take no blame for the loss of JFL and the other transfers?

I sure don't blame Lottich for JFL transferring.  He give him the keys to the team.  He could shoot whenever he wanted, made him the "leader" which resulted in JFL being named First Team all conference. Lots of attention.  That wasn't enough for the young man and his handlers. That is not on Coach. As for the "others", who do you miss? I didn't think so.

Good question. Which of the most selfish, overrated Crusaders ever did you miss last year - Smits, Evelyn, Golder, or Jay? And while we're walking down memory lane, those guys leaving is what opened up scholarships for Krikke and our European players that Matt unexpectedly announced practically a day later like pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

BTW I'm not attaching anything cryptic to Donovan's dad's comment. It could be as simple as he would like to see Donovan get put in a position to have more scoring opportunities during the flow of the offense, which I would agree with. Who knows, but IMO it's a huge stretch to go from a single comment about offensive execution to Donovan's gonna transfer.

https://twitter.com/fatherharry1/status/1349355358343622657?s=21

Quote from: wh on January 13, 2021, 10:59:15 AM
BTW I'm not attaching anything cryptic to Donovan's dad's comment. It could be as simple as he would like to see Donovan get put in a position to have more scoring opportunities during the flow of the offense, which I would agree with. Who knows, but IMO it's a huge stretch to go from a single comment about offensive execution to Donovan's gonna transfer.

Like you said it's always tough to get full context from tweets, but he's frustrated just like us sometimes. I could very well be overthinking and reading too much into things.

https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1348008329038196738?s=21
https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1348011471125544961?s=21
https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1347971367413669893?s=21
https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1340400515411300357?s=21
https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1334143789695447042?s=21

Lottich did an interview with Andy Katz.  With it was while we were playing better basketball.

https://twitter.com/valleyhoops/status/1349431520268754944?s=21

👀

https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1349446799464005636?s=21

"Personal attacks?"

I'm sorry, but how much more impersonal could the exchanges on this forum be? None of the posters here know anything about the other posters unless otherwise divulged. And to characterize what I wrote as an "attack" is just ridiculous. I was also responding in a manner commensurate with the post I was responding to.

SanityLost17 seemed to be mocking other forum posters to an extent, writing "Everyone is complaining about the offense.... Which i find hilarious;"

"Defensive improvement is the #1 priority right now and anybody argues differently clearly knows nothing about basketball."

Calling him "coach" and questioning his basketball knowledge, as he questioned everyone elses, are not over the top responses.

As Valpo's head coach I believe Lottich bears some responsability whenever a player whom the team would benefit from retaining has decided to transfer. However, you do bring up some good points.

Of the "others," I would have preferred if at least one of Smorrolla had stayed. While I despised them both, we would have been a better team for it, supposing they had been healthy. Golder having stayed also would likely have been a positive.

We needed one scholarship to add Krikke. Evelyn left; there you go. The European players we added suck, and I couldnt care less if they went back to Europe tomorrow.

Ya, Matt's a real magician alright... you hand him a perennial 20 wins per year division 1 college basketball program... and poof... he makes it disappear!

I'm not saying Clay will transfer. Im saying his father being publicly critical makes it seem a possibility. Couple this criticism with all of our recent transfers, and I become concerned.

Quote from: JBC1824 on January 13, 2021, 11:37:58 PM
"Personal attacks?"

I'm sorry, but how much more impersonal could the exchanges on this forum be? None of the posters here know anything about the other posters unless otherwise divulged. And to characterize what I wrote as an "attack" is just ridiculous. I was also responding in a manner commensurate with the post I was responding to.

SanityLost17 seemed to be mocking other forum posters to an extent, writing "Everyone is complaining about the offense.... Which i find hilarious;"

"Defensive improvement is the #1 priority right now and anybody argues differently clearly knows nothing about basketball."

Calling him "coach" and questioning his basketball knowledge, as he questioned everyone elses, are not over the top responses.

As Valpo's head coach I believe Lottich bears some responsability whenever a player whom the team would benefit from retaining has decided to transfer. However, you do bring up some good points.

Of the "others," I would have preferred if at least one of Smorrolla had stayed. While I despised them both, we would have been a better team for it, supposing they had been healthy. Golder having stayed also would likely have been a positive.

We needed one scholarship to add Krikke. Evelyn left; there you go. The European players we added suck, and I couldnt care less if they went back to Europe tomorrow.

Ya, Matt's a real magician alright... you hand him a perennial 20 wins per year division 1 college basketball program... and poof... he makes it disappear!

I'm not saying Clay will transfer. Im saying his father being publicly critical makes it seem a possibility. Couple this criticism with all of our recent transfers, and I become concerned.

I meant no REAL offense to anybody and took no REAL offense to his post.   :)

Not a good sign guys...

https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1352054324180918273?s=21
https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1352053285134352384?s=21
https://twitter.com/dexterclay1977/status/1352056748601839618?s=21

He is 3 for 9 today.  If you watch him off the ball, he is not getting open on his own.  How can you force a pass, when he is fully covered?  Oh wait, we can just ask Sackey and Edwards, each time they attempt such a thing...

Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2021, 07:28:57 PM
He is 3 for 9 today.  If you watch him off the ball, he is not getting open on his own.  How can you force a pass, when he is fully covered?  Oh wait, we can just ask Sackey and Edwards, each time they attempt such a thing...

You hit the nail on the head. I see those tweets from Dexter and I'm confused. Is he just expecting every possession to be a Donovan one on one?

This team needs a deep cleaning from the head coach down to the last player on the bench.

My guess is that he is hoping for the JFL treatment for Donovan, where he touched the ball several times on each possession, and then did a 1-on-1 at the end.  However, that does a disservice to the team development overall, as we have noticed now that JFL is gone, as no one seems to understand who will step up in key moments, when the clock is winding down on a possession. 

Congrats to the current team on being on the receiving end of our largest conference loss since 1992!  Let's see if they show any guts/balls in the next few games, in order to right the rest of their season.

Parents of kids who transfer don't have great things to say...
https://twitter.com/jlg5297/status/1352081157592997888?s=21

Quote from: VU2014 on January 20, 2021, 08:34:40 PM
Parents of kids who transfer don't have great things to say...
https://twitter.com/jlg5297/status/1352081157592997888?s=21

Im not interested in anything Marcus Golder's fan club of 1 has to say about anything, especially her garbage political tweets. What other "parents of kids who transfer" are you referring to?

I forgot the team even played tonight because it's so hard to watch these days. The box score is all I needed to see though and it's downright embarrassing.

I'm sure the Lottich apologists will make every excuse in the book, like no other teams are dealing with the same COVID issues. 

Quote from: wh on January 20, 2021, 09:04:52 PM
Im not interested in anything Marcus Golder's fan club of 1 has to say about anything, especially her garbage political tweets. What other "parents of kids who transfer" are you referring to?

More so Markus' Mom more than anyone. It sounds like she was happy that Markus was injured. I know there were a couple tweets from JFL's Mom that wasn't happy at some Valpo Fans being angry about JFL transferring in the offseason, but definitely no bad blood this.

Looking at her twitter, like 80% of her tweets are hating on someone or something. It's best not to touch those people with a ten foot pole.

Yeah, not worried about what the mom of Markus Golder thinks about Valpo.  He was absolutely a 'me first' player.  He had some good games for us, but was a very selfish and whiney basketball player. 

On a bright note, we have played arguably two of the best teams in the conference thus far, so our 0-3 record isn't exactly a surprise. But the way we have played has been embarrassing. Hopefully, with some easier games coming up, we can at least be more competitive.

Coming into this year, I said the two most important players were Krikke and Clay. Neither have been that impressive thus far. Our Upperclassmen have proven they are role players, and in some cases, have regressed dramatically. I'd like to see the Freshmen continue to get more playing time and for us to see them be more aggressive on the offensive end.

https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1352280395212087303?s=21

Quote from: vok22 on January 21, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1352280395212087303?s=21

Our newest never-ending "disappearing" veteran mystery. So, from last year to this we go from losing Ryan and John to Ryan, John and Javon, to Ryan, John, Javon and Nick, to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick and Zion to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, and Sigard, to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, Sigard and Emil to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, Sigard, Emil and an out of shape regressing MIA Mileek, to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, Sigard, Emil, an out of shape regressing MIA Mileek and a sophomore-slumped Donovan.

So, what's left? A bunch of raw freshmen, 2 underperforming sophomores, and a couple of upper class role players. The question is not why we got smoked last night. That's obvious. The question is what in the world is going on with these never ending drop offs, no shows, injuries, player scratches at game time, etc. This seems to be a never ending saga in the Matt Lottich era. And why are we saddled with COVID protocol violations? I can only surmise that is the result of lack of player discipline. It certainly fits with picking up 40 pounds "getting ready" for a new season.

Quote from: wh on January 21, 2021, 11:42:18 AM

Quote from: vok22 on January 21, 2021, 10:13:32 AMhttps://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1352280395212087303?s=21

Our newest never-ending "disappearing" veteran mystery. So, from last year to this we go from losing Ryan and John to Ryan, John and Javon, to Ryan, John, Javon and Nick, to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick and Zion to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, and Sigard, to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, Sigard and Emil to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, Sigard, Emil and an out of shape regressing MIA Mileek, to Ryan, John, Javon, Nick, Zion, Sigard, Emil, an out of shape regressing MIA Mileek and a sophomore-slumped Donovan. So, what's left? A bunch of raw freshmen, 2 underperforming sophomores, and a couple of upper class role players. The question is not why we got smoked last night. That's obvious. The question is what in the world is going on with these never ending drop offs, no shows, injuries, player scratches at game time, etc. This seems to be a never ending saga in the Matt Lottich era. And why are we saddled with COVID protocol violations? I can only surmise that is the result of lack of player discipline. It certainly fits with picking up 40 pounds "getting ready" for a new season.

I haven't been following that closely, but are Zion, Sigurd and Emil still on the team?

I'm not sure if I am overly surprised that Nick bailed, but it is a bit curious. 

I suppose. Who knows? They're just part of the never ending game time scratches without any explanation. Sig goes from starting game-1 to MIA. This kind of thing is so typical no one even stops to ask why or what happened any more. Are they hurt?Did they decide to scratch the season? Maybe an eternal case of COVID? Are they even still in the country? No postgame questions or weekly Brandon questions about them. Is this part of a strategy to give these guys another season. Are they actually tanking the season intentionally as part of a larger strategy? Never mind, nosey. Just move on. Nothing to see here. Let's see who "no-shows" on Saturday. Very likely that will be a bigger mystery than the outcome of the game.

If it is related to any newborn, as has been hinted in the past, congrats to Nick, and it is a good decision at this point in his life.  If he can be there for child/family, and potentially start making money for his family, he is making an adult decision. 

With a baby on the way (or here) and a degree in hand, I can imagine basketball suddenly isn't that important right now. Best of luck to the young family!

Quote from: vuny98 on January 21, 2021, 12:19:21 PMI haven't been following that closely, but are Zion, Sigurd and Emil still on the team?[/q

I spotted all three at the game around the bench. Luke said that Emil is getting better--you know..."progressing nicely" .

JFL and Kiser were much bigger losses than anticipated. Not so much in terms of stats, but how their basketball IQ, effort and determination on the court raised the level of play of others around them. Prime example. The road games at Arkansas and Northern Iowa. Those two teams landed some hey makers and pounced on Valpo early. By halftime it was a game again. Folded like a deck of cards last night. Who is that guy on the court this year that raises the play of others around him?

Those sound like comments much more fair to Matt Lottich and they ring true from where I sit.  Thank you. 

The hits keep on coming...

I won't begrudge Nick for making this choice. It's his health and he has a young child on the way or already here to keep in mind and doesn't want the baby or his partner to get sick.

It is what it is. A tough break.

https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1352280395212087303?s=21

Something weird is going on with the program. Why would Robinson feel the need to go public with a letter regarding his decision to opt out?

Message from Nick Robinson:



Dear Crusader Nation,
I want to begin by saying it deeply saddens me to write this letter to the Valparaiso University fans.Throughout  my time here there have been numerous  trials and tribulations but I never could have envisioned this one. Due to recent events, I have chosen to opt-out of my 5th year. I value and appreciate the support and encouragement  I have received from you all and feel that it;s important to provide clarity on this unfortunate  and gratuitous  situation.


On January 9th and January 10th, I did not play in the two games against Missouri State due to covid protocol. On January 9th I was blessed with my first son, Noah Saint Robinson. Given my personal situation as well as covid protocols, I did not attend these two games. Coach Lottich informed me that I had his full support on whatever I wanted and needed to do but also that he still wanted me to come to practice the following week. In order to show my dedication and loyalty to the program, I resumed attending practice on January 12, and continued  to do so for the remainder of the week.


On January 14th,during the beginning  of practice, the team was notified that we were scheduled to play against the DePaul Blue Demons. This posed a problem: if I were to play I would not be able to come home  both due to Chicago being a hot zone for covid and DePaul's number  of stoppages of play due to positive covid cases. I let Coach Lottich know that I would like to sit out to provide support for the first week of my son being born. Since a week prior the coaching staff helped me secure a new apartment,(that  was set for me to move in on January 18th) so I would be able to mitigate the risk of my newborn son catching covid. I thought  that I would continue  to have his support that was shown over the last two weeks.


On January 15th, before practice, Coach Lottich invited me into his office. He told me that I had two options, to play against DePaul or opt out for the remainder of the season because he could no longer deal with my inconsistency.  I was completely caught off guard by this statement as I have constantly kept him informed  with my concerns, intentions,  and goals for the season.


Despite coming off the bench, I am top three in every statistical category except for rebounding (in which I am fourth),  and free throw percentage (in which I am currently shooting 81.8%). Off the court, my teammates  can attest that I have consistently been a leader that has tried to be the gel that keeps us together during our tough  times. It is clear that I thrive under pressure and would be able to manage  any difficulty in scheduling the new addition to my family. I felt my situation could be classified as growing pains, rather than a perpetual problem that would result in my having to opt out of the season. However, I made the executive decision to put my family before any other priority and, as such, must opt out.


To my son and family,
I made this decision to set a standard that our family comes first. In the past six years I have lost my brother to cancer, my father to a heart attack, and my grandfather  to old age. It has taught  me many things  but the most important one is how precious life is. Now being the oldest male in my family, I want you to know  everyday I will put you first and not think twice about it.


To the Coaching staff
Thank you for the many life lessons that you have been a part of me learning during my time at
VU,  it has been a blessing.


To the Crusader Fans
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to wear the brown and gold. It was an honor and pleasure to play in the Athletics Recreation Center.

I would probably do the same as Nick. He is being a responsible father and family man.  Sounds like his priorities are in order and wish him the best. 

I wonder if more is coming with others opting out.

In what has essentially become a throw away season of exhibition games, I'll have to side with Nick for now. Obviously there could be much more to the story from both sides.

I think Nick didn't want people to think he walked out on the team.  He was defending his decision but also making it clear that he had little choice.  Unfortunately it does little to enhance Matt's image with Chicago recruits if they view the situation from Nick's side of things.  It will be interesting to see how this impacts his teammates.

Quote from: AB on January 21, 2021, 05:47:18 PM
JFL and Kiser were much bigger losses than anticipated. Not so much in terms of stats, but how their basketball IQ, effort and determination on the court raised the level of play of others around them. Prime example. The road games at Arkansas and Northern Iowa. Those two teams landed some hey makers and pounced on Valpo early. By halftime it was a game again. Folded like a deck of cards last night. Who is that guy on the court this year that raises the play of others around him?

At the end of last season, replacing Ryan and John was the only missing piece of this year's puzzle. Then JFL left (after he assured the world he wasn't) and we lost another piece. Not ideal, but with the expectation of having everyone else back and a talented group of freshmen coming in, I think most of us thought the prospects were good for building on last year's positive finish. What has happened since is nothing short of a nightmare. Basically, we're down 8 players from last year's roster, if you count heavyweight Mileek whose complete irresponsibility has rendered him completely ineffective. As a result, we have completely bottomed out - again. We now have so many missing pieces to the puzzle, you might as well throw the puzzle away and start over - again! And, if truth be told, there's plenty of blame to go around, including the coaches, certain players that aren't dedicated enough, and probably a few whiny, know it all parents poisoning the well, to boot. What a mess.

I can sympathize with each side on this. This Covid situation has played havoc all around us, unlike anything else in current history.

Being a first time parent is an uncertain and confusing time for most people. For those with more than one child, remember how you handled  things with your first versus the next one. It can be a scary and confusing time. With his family history I can see him being overly cautious, and I feel most of us would also put our feeling for family first.

I applaud Nick for his sincere letter to the Valpo community. I found it informative and not mean spirited, but still laced with some disappointment of the outcome. He was a good friend and leader to the team and will be missed greatly.

On the other hand Coach Lottich has a responsibility to maintain a viable and committed team. Coaches are the boss, and while they have the option to consider player requests, players are not the ones who dictate how the program progresses or how they are personally treated. In most schools players have been given the option of playing or opting out for the season. Not the option of choosing which games they want to play or not play in. There has to be some discipline in order to move forward.

I thought giving personal time off for the birth of Nick's son was the right thing to do for the Missouri State game. I myself would probably have granted time off for DePaul also, but there is a time where a decision has to be made to be fair for the rest of the team. Life comes down to hard choices.

Nick was an important and valuable part of this team and will be missed. I wish him well in his future endeavors. 

I understand that the Coaches want consistency but I'm a little baffled by Lottich's decision.

I support Nick's decision with family coming first.

I'm not sure how it came to this and why things couldn't be handled in house. Why wouldn't Lottich work with him?

Now I've been around long enough in this world to know there is ALWAYS two sides to a story but I'd really wish The Coaching staff would work this out and not be doing this through the Press. Just bad PR.

It honestly makes me question leadership and this includes the AD. There is no way Mark L wasn't aware of all this going down but let it. Just adds to Fans and Alumni's frustrations with this stuff. A terrible look for Valpo Athletics.

Didn't we have an issue a few years ago with allegedly selfish players who didn't fit it (Smits, Golder, Evelyn, etc). They left, Lottich brought in his own guys and now we're seeing the same thing again???

Indeed it sounds like a mess.  Most of you know the team better than I do. 

But from afar it really doesn't sound like the chemistry issues are being set in motion or even added by the coaches. You've had some players' personal issues to navigate You can imagine the dominos when losing spreads conflict and frustration.  Winning covers all of those flaws.  Just ask the Yankees and some of the Oakland As teams.

Quote from: wh on January 22, 2021, 02:16:48 PMBasically, we're down 8 players from last year's roster, if you count heavyweight Mileek whose complete irresponsibility has rendered him completely ineffective. As a result, we have completely bottomed out - again. We now have so many missing pieces to the puzzle, you might as well throw the puzzle away and start over - again! And, if truth be told, there's plenty of blame to go around, including the coaches, certain players that aren't dedicated enough, and probably a few whiny, know it all parents poisoning the well, to boot. What a mess.

I don't see Mileek returning short term to anywhere near full strength so should he be encouraged to return for another season? Same question goes for Zion. Eron could play another year but should he? Fast tracking our youth looks like our best solution and if Emil gets healthy he could be given major minutes.

Getting our Valley record to 6-12 is no longer viewed as a certainty but we accomplished that with less talent 4 years ago just with an all out defensive resolve. We again need a quick hook for defensive errors and sub maximum efforts. Maybe they should watch some February 2017-18 game film. That defense was the only thing that justified the price of admission.

This shouldn't be seen as a negative to the program.

It's best for both parties involved.  Lottich needed his player 100% of the time and Robinson for a good reason couldn't give that. 

Tough being a D1 student athlete.  Couldn't imagine doing that and having a child.  Especially during the pandemic. 

Most importantly I sure hope Robinson gets his degree from Valparaiso universality. 

In any other year this is the right move. But this year it's a bad look for a program in disarray, especially when there's no eligibility at stake.

Maybe Nick decides to use that last year next season. If so, I can't imagine it being here. And how does this look to current and future recruits? 

I can also see this situation from both sides, as an occasional/game-by-game player will only cause more synergy issues, whenever they are able to play.  On the same end, if my coach had worded such a thing as Nick attests to in his letter, when I was Nick's age, I would have told Lottich to go f* himself lol.  I really hope that Lottich did not tell Nick that he can't put up with the inconsistency, just a few weeks after a child's birth...

Quote from: justducky on January 22, 2021, 03:47:58 PM

Quote from: wh on January 22, 2021, 02:16:48 PMBasically, we're down 8 players from last year's roster, if you count heavyweight Mileek whose complete irresponsibility has rendered him completely ineffective. As a result, we have completely bottomed out - again. We now have so many missing pieces to the puzzle, you might as well throw the puzzle away and start over - again! And, if truth be told, there's plenty of blame to go around, including the coaches, certain players that aren't dedicated enough, and probably a few whiny, know it all parents poisoning the well, to boot. What a mess.

I don't see Mileek returning short term to anywhere near full strength so should he be encouraged to return for another season? Same question goes for Zion. Eron could play another year but should he? Fast tracking our youth looks like our best solution and if Emil gets healthy he could be given major minutes.

Getting our Valley record to 6-12 is no longer viewed as a certainty but we accomplished that with less talent 4 years ago just with an all out defensive resolve. We again need a quick hook for defensive errors and sub maximum efforts. Maybe they should watch some February 2017-18 game film. That defense was the only thing that justified the price of admission.

I don't know why we would want any of those guys back next year. We have a whole new crop of freshmen coming it and 13 scholarship players without them. There's only 1 basketball and 200 minutes. More players means more unhappy players, which leads to more discord.

WH, the problem with that is we have said the same thing for the last 3 years.  Good, Bakari Evelyn needs to go.  We have good freshman coming in.  Good, Golden needs to go, we have good freshman coming in.  Good, Smits needs to go, we have another 7 footer......So on and so on. 

What a messed up situation. Absent COVID I bet something could have been worked out. I'm not unfamiliar with getting an ultimatum from a coach. In high school my baseball coach gave me an ultimatum to abandon another activity because he questioned whether I was sufficiently dedicated to baseball. At that time I told him no, that I could do both. He didn't cut me but he did bench me, even though I was clearly the best player at my position and our record suffered because of it. That's high school where I think the school should support students trying many different things. College is a different.  You accept an athletic scholarship, it's like a contract. They pay for your education and in return, you play your sport. You go to classes and you play your sport. Nothing else should interfere. If something does and you can't play, you've broken your contract.  Anything the college does or doesn't do to accommodate the situation is up to them.  This year with an opt out it provides a reasonable alternative. Now I hope that Lottich's meeting wasn't as cold as was described.  I could see a conversation where after honest and sympathetic discussion both parties could come to the conclusion that given the circumstances that an opt out was the best way to proceed.  But I do worry about how this might play with future recruits if it truly went down as described. Btw my coach finally relented and let me play the last quarter of the season including the sectional which we won for the first time, and I was named to the all sectional team. I ended up hitting .344 for the season. The experience so soured me that I haven't touched a baseball since.

Thinking more about the situation, it's not necessarily the losing that's the problem. It's the drama. Think about the 08-09 season. We were terrible that year. We even had some questionable personalities (Logan Jones). But Homer handled the situation and we moved on.

All of our seniors have weighed and are weighing their future options. Because of the extended eligibility there should be a glut of competent transfers flooding the market for the 2021-2022 season. Realistically the best case for Zion or Mileek is sideways as situational role players. Eron or Nick might find a spot on a top 100 team but would need to really shine to gain any meaningful playing time. If my perception of their reality is accurate then perhaps none of them will continue with NCAA basketball elsewhere.  Thoughts?

Quote from: justducky on January 23, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
All of our seniors have weighed and are weighing their future options. Because of the extended eligibility there should be a glut of competent transfers flooding the market for the 2021-2022 season. Realistically the best case for Zion or Mileek is sideways as situational role players. Eron or Nick might find a spot on a top 100 team but would need to really shine to gain any meaningful playing time. If my perception of their reality is accurate then perhaps none of them will continue with NCAA basketball elsewhere.  Thoughts?

I wonder how the scholarship situation will pan out.  Will schools want to offer any of them a scholarship?  If Mileek thinks he has pro potential then perhaps he might want to play another year at Valpo as he is a local guy.  Would love to have Eron back as he could really help the young guys. Nick surely won't want to be back and Zion would not get any playing time.

Quote from: vu72 on January 23, 2021, 10:46:17 AM

Quote from: justducky on January 23, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
All of our seniors have weighed and are weighing their future options. Because of the extended eligibility there should be a glut of competent transfers flooding the market for the 2021-2022 season. Realistically the best case for Zion or Mileek is sideways as situational role players. Eron or Nick might find a spot on a top 100 team but would need to really shine to gain any meaningful playing time. If my perception of their reality is accurate then perhaps none of them will continue with NCAA basketball elsewhere.  Thoughts?

I wonder how the scholarship situation will pan out.  Will schools want to offer any of them a scholarship?  If Mileek thinks he has pro potential then perhaps he might want to play another year at Valpo as he is a local guy.  Would love to have Eron back as he could really help the young guys. Nick surely won't want to be back and Zion would not get any playing time.

I repeat. We will already have 13 players under scholarship without any players in their final season returning. Does anyone honestly think those 13 guys are going to stand pat and sit on the bench while 5th and 6th year players take their minutes. Of course not. The first thing they're going to do is look for a better situation. And, it won't just be the guys that aren't in the rotation. It will be guys who are in the rotation now because guys like Mileek selfishly wouldn't hold himself accountable to stay anywhere close to being in game shape and has yet to create so much as a fart in a windstorm. There is a far greater risk of doing long term damage to the program by bringing them back than whatever benefit there might be, if any, to having them on next year's roster.

Quote from: wh on January 23, 2021, 11:51:02 AM

Quote from: vu72 on January 23, 2021, 10:46:17 AM

Quote from: justducky on January 23, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
All of our seniors have weighed and are weighing their future options. Because of the extended eligibility there should be a glut of competent transfers flooding the market for the 2021-2022 season. Realistically the best case for Zion or Mileek is sideways as situational role players. Eron or Nick might find a spot on a top 100 team but would need to really shine to gain any meaningful playing time. If my perception of their reality is accurate then perhaps none of them will continue with NCAA basketball elsewhere.  Thoughts?

I wonder how the scholarship situation will pan out.  Will schools want to offer any of them a scholarship?  If Mileek thinks he has pro potential then perhaps he might want to play another year at Valpo as he is a local guy.  Would love to have Eron back as he could really help the young guys. Nick surely won't want to be back and Zion would not get any playing time.

I repeat. We will already have 13 players under scholarship without any players in their final season returning. Does anyone honestly think those 13 guys are going to stand pat and sit on the bench while 5th and 6th year players take their minutes. Of course not. The first thing they're going to do is look for a better situation. And, it won't just be the guys that aren't in the rotation. It will be guys who are in the rotation now because guys like Mileek selfishly wouldn't hold himself accountable to stay anywhere close to being in game shape and has yet to create so much as a fart in a windstorm. There is a far greater risk of doing long term damage to the program by bringing them back than whatever benefit there might be, if any, to having them on next year's roster.

But, under the covid rules, as I understand them, if a school chooses to, they can have more than 13 scholarship players, so for example, a really in-shape Mileek wants to give it another year and Coach decides that we really need a big, Valpo could give Mileek a scholarship and have 14 scholarship players.  The guys coming in and who are on the team now, aren't what you'd call "big". JO needs to play the 4 as he isn't capable of defending bigs in the Valley, yet he is our best 3 shooter.  I sure don't see a need for any of the other seniors.

Don't want to speak too soon but want to put it out there that regardless of what happens the rest of the game: we have brought energy and come to play and don't look like the dejected team we did last time we took the court. Good on the team for bouncing back well, at least for the first 3 and a half minutes of this game.

I must be the only member of the board who found the letter completely self serving. We don't know what the coach said to him or he said to the coach. We do know that the player, for whatever reason, felt the need to quickly get his side of the story out there presenting himself in the best possible light including a review of his basketball career at Valpo. I found that odd and completely unnecessary and also, apparently, not really much of the issue which caused him to opt out.

He didn't present himself in a great light to me with the letter.

As an aside, the coaching staff has a roster of players to deal with and many situations come up in other players lives which may not seem as high up the food chain as the birth of a child but might be just as important to those other players who might ask for special treatment...if one wishes to call it that.

For me, this article sheds a different light on the Nick Robinson situation.

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/nick-robinson-claims-valparaiso-gave-play-at-depaul-or-opt-out-ultimatum-matt-lottich-says/article_760ff789-1611-51a0-a6ec-8b761abbf202.html

The reason he gave for wanting to opt out of the DePaul game was not wanting to play in a COVID hotspot. Presumably, they drove directly to an empty arena, played a game where the only noise was sneakers squeaking, and drove straight back to Valpo. The arena might as well have been in Kouts as far as COVID risk goes. Secondly, what does that have to do with being a new father? Nothing, at least on the surface. The optics of opting out of a game because of some phantom COVID risk after already missing several games due to "personal" reasons looks pretty bad (and weak).

BTW, I don't have any problem that he opted out of the rest of the season. It makes perfect since that he has more important priorities right now. What I do have a problem with is the cheap shot directed at Lottich on his way out the door. It was completely unnecessary and, if anything, makes him look petty. Why do that?

I wholeheartedly agree, wh.

Quote from: JD24 on January 23, 2021, 09:22:44 PMI must be the only member of the board who found the letter completely self serving. We don't know what the coach said to him or he said to the coach. We do know that the player, for whatever reason, felt the need to quickly get his side of the story out there presenting himself in the best possible light including a review of his basketball career at Valpo. I found that odd and completely unnecessary and also, apparently, not really much of the issue which caused him to opt out. He didn't present himself in a great light to me with the letter. As an aside, the coaching staff has a roster of players to deal with and many situations come up in other players lives which may not seem as high up the food chain as the birth of a child but might be just as important to those other players who might ask for special treatment...if one wishes to call it that.

That's what jumped out to me when I read the letter. Why is he talking about being 3rd in all these stats? It seemed like he was saying, I'm one of your best players, you should be bending over backwards to accommodate me. Now I don't blame him at all for opting out, but he could/should have simply said, I had to make a choice, commit myself to my team or my family, I chose my family. And I would have applauded him for it. But he took some shots on the way out. I'm sure he felt disrespected, but it wasn't a great look. I wish him the best.

I can't get Nick Robinson out of my head and thus feel compelled to verbalize some of my outsider observations.

Observation #1   Covid created chaos, then chaos brakes down discipline, then undisciplined play and practice destroys the team.

Observation #2     Nick and Matt have a talk, Nick opts out, and miraculously Emil and Zion are back in uniform for a team that seems risen from the dead.  :o    Very curious stuff ???

Quote from: wh on January 24, 2021, 01:40:18 PMI don't have any problem that he opted out of the rest of the season. It makes perfect since that he has more important priorities right now. What I do have a problem with is the cheap shot directed at Lottich on his way out the door. It was completely unnecessary and, if anything, makes him look petty. Why do that?

100% agreement with wh. This is essentially a throw away season with no fans, little excitement and no eligibility loss. All Matt requested was full team commitment or 0% team commitment. wh has pointed out in the past that coddling athletes who lack team first thinking will lead to reduced efforts from everybody. It is inevitable. Sloth or the appearance of sloth is more team contagious than covid.

Observation and Speculation #3   If Nick wants to continue anywhere with basketball then maybe he should rethink things. In the upcoming eligibility glut finding a comfortable and equal or better NCAA situation might be vastly more difficult than imagined. While always showing promise his numbers and highlight reels are limited and their coaches will also demand an all out commitment. That is just a basic and essential part of any scholarship or professional agreement. Also he left a team in turmoil that suddenly finds life. Ouch

I personally found Robinson to be very disappointing during his time here. I was very excited when he was brought in but I just don't think he had the impact he should have. Injuries played a role and it's not his fault but I also felt this when he was on the floor too. I wish him the best and respect his decision but I think we will survive this loss, as our improved play against ISUr seems to indicate.

Those Purdue and Toledo losses sure look a lot better now.  Even though Purdue lost tonight, they are at #24, and Toledo is killing the MAC.

Quote from: valpotx on February 02, 2021, 09:01:44 PMThose Purdue and Toledo losses sure look a lot better now.  Even though Purdue lost tonight, they are at #24, and Toledo is killing the MAC.

There are no "good losses." We should have beaten Purdue. And we beat a team that beat Toledo.

There are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1). 

Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2021, 12:12:18 AMThere are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 03, 2021, 12:17:29 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2021, 12:12:18 AMThere are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

I believe that you have followed for 8 seasons now, or is it longer?  Imagine how many of us feel, that go back to the late 90s, or even back to our original good run in the mid-90s.  We've experienced nothing but winning and championships for around 25 seasons, outside of 4 or 5 losing record seasons.  It will get better, as long as we don't lose another top player after this season.

Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2021, 12:30:16 AM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 03, 2021, 12:17:29 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2021, 12:12:18 AMThere are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

I believe that you have followed for 8 seasons now, or is it longer?  Imagine how many of us feel, that go back to the late 90s, or even back to our original good run in the mid-90s.  We've experienced nothing but winning and championships for around 25 seasons, outside of 4 or 5 losing record seasons.  It will get better, as long as we don't lose another top player after this season.

I came to this board because I learned of its existence around the time of the MVC invite. I've been following for much longer. I grew up in Valpo. I remember The Shot (though that was my one year away from town during my childhood when my family moved for work before instantly coming back). I remember watching games during the Grafs Barton era I remember watching Oppland and Huff and countless others. I attended games in the Mid-Con and HL years even before I was a student. I remember how excited I was when we first got the callup to the HL when I was in High School which of course raised my interest in the program. Naturally, my interest in Valpo athletics grew even more when I became a student as well as a resident of Valpo so yeah my following the team got a lot closer from 09-10 onwards but I'm in your same boat. I remember the decades of dominance of the Drews and I miss it very much. I understand that with better competition it's harder to dominate like that and I don't need to see Valpo totally dominate the MVC year in year out (Though that would be just super obviously) to be happy I just don't want to see us become an afterthought in this great new conference as a perennial bottom half\last place doormat. If we could get to the top of the Horizon when it was only a little weaker than the current MVC is now, then we can and should be able to get to the top of the MVC. I want to believe that  winning this league 3+ times a decade or so is reasonable like it is for other programs. That's all I want. (Of course if and when we get there watch me ask for more but them's the breaks of being a fan.) :)  For me four years of mediocre play is a very long time and I want to see some sense of urgency to have it end. I know I'm a bit irrational and unreasonable but as I said that's what being a fan fundamentally is. Fandom isn't rational or reasonable. It's a lot of emotional energy and time. I just want it to be time well spent. And watching the team lose repeatedly is not what I call time well spent so when that happens I feel the need to vent and complain. I hope soon I won't feel the need to complain nearly as much.  :)

https://twitter.com/nwisports/status/1357096045315043330?s=21

VUGrad — with how long you've been a fan, I'm surprised you didn't learn of this board's existence until 2017. Did you just never become aware of forums in general until then?

Quote from: VU2014 on February 04, 2021, 08:08:28 AM
https://twitter.com/nwisports/status/1357096045315043330?s=21

Another excellent Paul Oren feature story. I have a real heart for guys like Sheldon and Connor, who have overcome more than their share of trials and tribulations to get where they are. Many of the best people I've ever known have powerful character-building back stories.

This idea that we need to "prove we belong in the MVC" is getting tiresome.

Even with one of our weaker teams we actually are in 6th place which avoids the play in game even though I would predict we slide to 7th or 8th.  But with four teams below us, we belong with the other 8.  We beat Loyola to reach the finals in St. Louis for God's sake. 

Do we yearn to play YSU again? We may not belong on the floor with Loyola and Drake this year, but we belong in the MVC with 8 other teams on our level. Enough on that riff.

Creighton and Wichita State dominated the MVC before they moved on to greener pastures. The remaining 8 saw this as their chance to finally become king of the mountain. Their fans have always wanted 2 things from the replacement programs, Loyola and Valpo - be competitive enough to maintain the conference's standing, but don't become the new kings of the mountain. In other words, do well, but not too well. The last thing Valpo fans should be worried about is trying to earn the respect of fans of other programs that think like that. They don't have the slightest interest in our success or failure, other than what we can do to help them get where they want to go. They're not our friends; they're at best our friendly adversaries.

Quote from: crusadermoe on February 04, 2021, 11:51:27 AMThis idea that we need to "prove we belong in the MVC" is getting tiresome. Even with one of our weaker teams we actually are in 6th place which avoids the play in game even though I would predict we slide to 7th or 8th.  But with four teams below us, we belong with the other 8.  We beat Loyola to reach the finals in St. Louis for God's sake. Do we yearn to play YSU again? We may not belong on the floor with Loyola and Drake this year, but we belong in the MVC with 8 other teams on our level. Enough on that riff.

Many of our performances suggest otherwise. We've been absolutely blasted many times this year and in other years. Maybe we do as a collection of talent belong in the MVC but we sure as heck don't show that consistently enough by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, we weren't brought in to "compete with the other 8" we were brought in to be an upper-tier team. That's what everyone was expecting when we were added. Our metrics suggested it should be so our performance against MVC competition prior to our invite suggested that it should be so and the fact that we lost a coin flip to a Murray State program with as good or better credentials than our own suggested that it should be so. Murray State would not have struggled to the degree that we have in this conference and that is a stone cold fact. Our first year if they had been in the MVC the league would have had two bids with both teams winning at least one game. Murray State would have been far more competitive than we have been probably in every year except this one since we've been in the MVC. Have we even won a single team sports title since we've moved up? In ANYTHING? Color me unconvinced that we've proven anything as far as belonging in this conference goes. Three wins in St Louis last year doesn't change that in my mind, not with the start we've gotten off to this year. Our only wins this year are against SIUE a sweep of ISUr (a team at the bottom of the conference) and a win at home over a disappointing Bradley team that has fallen short of its own expectations at home in double overtime. We may be in sixth place now but I am skeptical of our ability to stay there. I am also unsure when we can finally shed the Thursday team label even just once. Could be next year or it could be many years off into the future. I don't know with this program what I'm going to get on a nightly basis and that is not comforting in the slightest. I don't want to get to the point where I just expect and accept mediocrity but that seems to be what I'm being conditioned towards. I don't want that and I hope the rest of the fanbase and also the administration and players don't want that either.

From my experiences at games, STL, social media, and reading other boards — I'll say my experience is far different than what wh describes.

I've found the league to have distinctive camaraderie where there's a massive outpouring of support for whoever plays in the NCAA Tournament each year.

Also, virtually every league fan I've talked with has been gracious and everyone genuinely roots for each other to do well.

Sure, there's an online troll or two for each team, but overall the tight-knitness of the Valley has been what I've been most struck by.

Quote from: may know on February 04, 2021, 10:30:36 PMFrom my experiences at games, STL, social media, and reading other boards — I'll say my experience is far different than what wh describes. I've found the league to have distinctive camaraderie where there's a massive outpouring of support for whoever plays in the NCAA Tournament each year. Also, virtually every league fan I've talked with has been gracious and everyone genuinely roots for each other to do well. Sure, there's an online troll or two for each team, but overall the tight-knitness of the Valley has been what I've been most struck by.

I think both are true... My impression of WH's post is that everyone wants to be THE team in the conference, which is true. So in that regard, yes we are all adversaries. But we still want the conference as a whole to succeed, so when conference foes play Power 5 conferences or make it to the tournament, we root for them. But not at the expense of our team.

Think about it as a job. You want people to join your team that will help you and the team succeed. Not someone that will just sit around and drag everyone else down. But you also don't want someone to get hired that is so much better than you that they take the promotion you have been working so hard to get for years.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 03, 2021, 12:47:00 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2021, 12:30:16 AM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 03, 2021, 12:17:29 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 03, 2021, 12:12:18 AMThere are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

I believe that you have followed for 8 seasons now, or is it longer?  Imagine how many of us feel, that go back to the late 90s, or even back to our original good run in the mid-90s.  We've experienced nothing but winning and championships for around 25 seasons, outside of 4 or 5 losing record seasons.  It will get better, as long as we don't lose another top player after this season.

I came to this board because I learned of its existence around the time of the MVC invite. I've been following for much longer. I grew up in Valpo. I remember The Shot (though that was my one year away from town during my childhood when my family moved for work before instantly coming back). I remember watching games during the Grafs Barton era I remember watching Oppland and Huff and countless others. I attended games in the Mid-Con and HL years even before I was a student. I remember how excited I was when we first got the callup to the HL when I was in High School which of course raised my interest in the program. Naturally, my interest in Valpo athletics grew even more when I became a student as well as a resident of Valpo so yeah my following the team got a lot closer from 09-10 onwards but I'm in your same boat. I remember the decades of dominance of the Drews and I miss it very much. I understand that with better competition it's harder to dominate like that and I don't need to see Valpo totally dominate the MVC year in year out (Though that would be just super obviously) to be happy I just don't want to see us become an afterthought in this great new conference as a perennial bottom half\last place doormat. If we could get to the top of the Horizon when it was only a little weaker than the current MVC is now, then we can and should be able to get to the top of the MVC. I want to believe that  winning this league 3+ times a decade or so is reasonable like it is for other programs. That's all I want. (Of course if and when we get there watch me ask for more but them's the breaks of being a fan.) :)  For me four years of mediocre play is a very long time and I want to see some sense of urgency to have it end. I know I'm a bit irrational and unreasonable but as I said that's what being a fan fundamentally is. Fandom isn't rational or reasonable. It's a lot of emotional energy and time. I just want it to be time well spent. And watching the team lose repeatedly is not what I call time well spent so when that happens I feel the need to vent and complain. I hope soon I won't feel the need to complain nearly as much.  :)

Imagine going back 40 years before you started and going through the Bartow era but also sinking all the way down to the early Homer Drew era, then watching Homer, Scott and Bryce the Bruce go to another zenith that went further than the Bartow era. It has always been a roller coaster at Valpo.

Every program in the MVC has the power within to elevate the profile of the conference by elevating its own program. The measure of success is a combination of coaching (teaching, executing, scouting), recruiting, scheduling, and institutional support. IMO there are no more than 2 (maybe 3) MVC programs that are consistently functioning at a high level. Others are up and down, and a couple have been in decline since we arrived on the scene. Then there's Valpo, which short of last year's tournament has been mediocre, at best, or said more positively - yet to make an impact (which I believe we will, sooner rather than later).

The point is there is growth potential all over the place just waiting to be tapped. Bringing in supposed white horses (and who knows if they are) to "fix what ails us" is an admission of failure. Is that honestly where this conference is at in its thinking? This reminds me of the old HL/Summit mentality, where we fans were always pleading for some white horse of the day to offset a collection of declining or interminably bad men's basketball programs. Again, is that where the MVC is at? I don't think so.

I don't think mediocre is the word I would describe, 10th, T8th, T6th......And we still have 2021 which doesn't look like we will finish in the top half. 

Nothing mediocre about it.

I said, "Then there's Valpo, which short of last year's tournament has been mediocre, at best."

I have no idea where we are on, or if we are even in "the cycle".  We have improved our record three straight years but if does appear that we will again "slip backward" this season.

It should be noted that we are in our fifth year in the Valley.  Imagine how Evansville or Illinois State feel after being in the Valley for a very long time.  Evansville, both men and women won a total of '0'games last year.

Quote from: vu72 on February 06, 2021, 08:12:21 AM
I have no idea where we are on, or if we are even in "the cycle".  We have improved our record three straight years but if does appear that we will again "slip backward" this season.

It should be noted that we are in our fifth year in the Valley.  Imagine how Evansville or Illinois State feel after being in the Valley for a very long time.  Evansville, both men and women won a total of '0'games last year.

Ever since Valpo entered the MVC, I have said our role model should be Loyola for accomplishments on the court and in facilities improvements. They also came from the Horizon League and are our closest comparison (regionally, academically, athletically) in the conference—although some might claim Drake as more similar, but look where they are in the rankings today with '0' losses going into today's game against VU—rather than those other teams. Loyola made it to the NCAA finals in its fifth MVC season. It is frustrating, to say the least, to see the advancements made by this apparent rival (not to mention the success in the past decade by our other former Horizon League rival in Indianapolis) while VU has seemed content to languish.

So as not to get sidetracked, let me reiterate my point relative to MVC expansion. It is counterintuitive to think that adding Murray State and Belmont will somehow improve Valpo's prospects for becoming a top 2 or 3 program in the conference. As I said previously, no one can elevate Valpo's success but Valpo. No one can elevate Evansville's success but Evansville, etc. we face a huge challenge. We have to leapfrog several programs to get where we want to go. The last thing we need right now is to add more competitor programs to contend with.

Quote from: vu72 on February 06, 2021, 08:12:21 AM
I have no idea where we are on, or if we are even in "the cycle".  We have improved our record three straight years but if does appear that we will again "slip backward" this season.

It should be noted that we are in our fifth year in the Valley.  Imagine how Evansville or Illinois State feel after being in the Valley for a very long time.  Evansville, both men and women won a total of '0'games last year.

It's only our fourth year in the MVC, not fifth.

Quote from: wh on February 06, 2021, 09:37:20 AMSo as not to get sidetracked, let me reiterate my point relative to MVC expansion. It is counterintuitive to think that adding Murray State and Belmont will somehow improve Valpo's prospects for becoming a top 2 or 3 program in the conference. As I said previously, no one can elevate Valpo's success but Valpo. No one can elevate Evansville's success but Evansville, etc. we face a huge challenge. We have to leapfrog several programs to get where we want to go. The last thing we need right now is to add more competitor programs to contend with.

If we're going to be mediocre we might as well be mediocre in a multibid league. I want to see us get to the top but if the appetite isn't there institutionally we should hope that the MVC brings in more programs that do have that hunger so that the league gets better and by extension we then make more money thanks to their success which might in turn help us get better albeit at a slower rate relative to the others but at a faster rate than we would have done ourselves. That's always been my stance. To your earlier point, Belmont is not a white horse. Murray State is not a white horse. South Dakota State is not a white horse. These are all programs that have proven to be more than good enough to be in the MVC and would elevate the entire profile of the league. Maybe getting our brains beaten in by a couple Johnny Come Latelys would finally wake Valpo up to do the things they should have been doing 25 years ago. Or maybe not. But at least the league would be stronger healthier and make more money for its members.

If/when they allow fan attendance again, this looks like a fun halftime contest:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1118608751919202&id=147262525292598

Good article on Loyola and the MVC on 538. Valparaiso's win over Drake is mentioned and Ben Krikke is in the picture at the beginning of the article.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/remember-loyola-this-team-is-even-better-than-the-one-that-made-the-final-four/

Loyola top 25 this week.  The Valley would have two top 25 teams if not for Drake's slip up in Valpo over the weekend.  Regardless, pretty good for the MVC. 

I've seen enough of Sackey. If one of the freshmen PGs coming in aren't good enough to start over him from day 1 I'll actually be moderately discouraged. He legitimately could not win MVP of the Valpo High School Intramural League.

Yeah Sackey struggling.  Valpo has always had good guards in comparison to the rest of the league.  Not having a good point guard might be the reason for all this. 

EVERY good team needs a good point guard.  As I have said many times on this board, Sackey is NOT the guy!  Our biggest problem this season is a lack of good, even decent, point guard play.  Our inconsistencies in this area are evidenced every game.  It is even more important with our young, developing  team.  Another good example of this problem is Indiana.  While their guards can often score, their lack of consistently good point guard play is also very evident.  At least they have some potential as they develop a freshman or two to fill the bill.  We need to do the same...develop someone .  I think this year we will just have to put up with the lack of good point guard play and hope it comes next year - and NOT Sackey.  Losing JFL was a tremendous loss and it becomes more and more evident as this season progresses.  Now let's forget the Bradley game and prepare to see some success again.  It will come, but so will some failures.  Coach needs to keep the guys together and play hard, hustling ball.  (and develop a good point guard)

There is still a ton of basketball to be played and goals to shoot for. Valpo has 7 games left. Sweeps over UNI and SIU, a split with INSU, and a loss to Loyola would give us a 9-9 finish. In all probability we would leapfrog both Bradley and Evansville and grab the 5th seed for the tournament. That would give us our first top half finish, keep us out of Thursday for the first time, and give us a 6-3 2nd half conference finish. Keep building!

Quote from: wh on February 13, 2021, 02:13:55 PM
There is still a ton of basketball to be played and goals to shoot for. Valpo has 7 games left. Sweeps over UNI and SIU, a split with INSU, and a loss to Loyola would give us a 9-9 finish. In all probability we would leapfrog both Bradley and Evansville and grab the 5th seed for the tournament. That would give us our first top half finish, keep us out of Thursday for the first time, and give us a 6-3 2nd half conference finish. Keep building!

I think 9-9 is wishful thinking, but we definitely have a good shot at avoiding Thursday. Bradley still has Missouri State and Drake to play, along with a game against ISU, who they lost to. We have 2 bottom 3 teams, ISUb at home, and Loyola. There is a relatively large chance that if we win 3 out of those 7 games, we avoid Thursday.

Quote from: vok22 on February 10, 2021, 08:20:22 PMI've seen enough of Sackey. If one of the freshmen PGs coming in aren't good enough to start over him from day 1 I'll actually be moderately discouraged. He legitimately could not win MVP of the Valpo High School Intramural League.

The problem with Sackey is that he's a speed guy and speed has lesser influence on a players game the higher the platform of basketball. In fact, it can be a detriment at a point in which one guy is playing at breakneck speed while the other 9 guys on the floor are actually going about the business of playing basketball which I find is the case with Sackey too often. I have no desire to look, but I'd bet a good deal of his HS play was full of him dribbling down the court faster than everyone can run as opposed to playing in some level of structured offense.

Cassius Winston wasn't the fastest guy on the floor for MSU a few years ago but he knew how to control a game and put his teammates in the best position to succeed.

Quote from: vok22 on February 13, 2021, 02:42:37 PMI think 9-9 is wishful thinking, but we definitely have a good shot at avoiding Thursday

I'm thinking a 7 seed is likely and if that places us vs Drake in the second round then it might be ok. No way do I want to be on the same side of the bracket as Loyola.

I started the Bradley thread and we lost by 24.  :o All of you can do better than that so somebody needs to step up and get it going. After the Bradley showing a UNI split would tickle me to death!

It looks like it will probably boil down to us and Bradley for the last Thursday spot. Bradley just lost 3 starters and a key reserve for their series this weekend due to suspension. I'll take it

Bradley is down 44-24 at halftime.

Bradley is getting clobbered today. Based on Bradley and Evansville's remaining schedule, Valpo could still end up in 5th place with an 8-10 record.

oh yeah, I forgot that we have a basketball team...

Loyola destroyed Drake 81-54. The MVC's hopes for 2 bids are fading fast.

Quote from: wh on February 13, 2021, 02:13:55 PM
There is still a ton of basketball to be played and goals to shoot for. Valpo has 7 games left. Sweeps over UNI and SIU, a split with INSU, and a loss to Loyola would give us a 9-9 finish. In all probability we would leapfrog both Bradley and Evansville and grab the 5th seed for the tournament. That would give us our first top half finish, keep us out of Thursday for the first time, and give us a 6-3 2nd half conference finish. Keep building!

I believe "someone" hoped for and predicted a .500 conference record.

So good chance we don't finish .500 with that lost last night. 

That will make us under .500 for 3 of 4 years in mvc.  With the lone year coming in right at .500.

Great to see Sheldon supporting the women on Twitter. He seems to be embracing Valpo which hopefully bodes well for the future! Would love to see more camaraderie between the teams (although I also understand each team needs to be fully focussed on their own prep and games)

We are again the worst 3 point shooting team in the Valley finishing at .301%.  Our 3 freshmen collectively hit over half of our made 3 pointers going 93-246 for 37.8%. Last year in St Louis the ball frequently went to our seniors. This year even with Barrett out many of the big shots could be taken by rookies.

Will Edwards and Ognacevic match what Clay and Krikke contributed last March?

After last night, Jacob Ognacevic is fourth in the nation in three point shooting percentage at 51.7% (30 of 58).

Quote from: vu84v2 on February 28, 2021, 10:27:38 AM
After last night, Jacob Ognacevic is fourth in the nation in three point shooting percentage at 51.7% (30 of 58).

...and top 3-point shooter in the MVC. ...and, he has the highest 2-pt shooting pct of all the top 3-pt shooters, suggesting that he is the top inside/outside shooting threat in the MVC.

Note: Not to pour cold water on my own post, but despite having the top 3-pt shooter in the league, we are still dead last as a team.

Quote from: wh on February 28, 2021, 11:46:00 AMwe are still dead last as a team.

I wonder what happened to Donovan this year. I don't know how much of a drop he had, but I'm sure his percentage was much better in 19-20.

Quote from: humbleopinion on February 28, 2021, 12:06:30 PM

Quote from: wh on February 28, 2021, 11:46:00 AMwe are still dead last as a team.

I wonder what happened to Donovan this year. I don't know how much of a drop he had, but I'm sure his percentage was much better in 19-20.

STATS
2020-21
2019-20
GP   MIN   FG%   3P%   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
27   32.3   39.8   20.9   68.1   5.5   2.2   1.3   0.8   2.7   2.4   10.1
35   28.7   45.2   28.6   64.7   4.6   1.7   1.0   0.6   1.9   1.1   9.4

Last year when the offense broke down we looked to JFL to bale us out. Donovan does not have that same ability, yet he has been put in that position many times due to our youth and inexperience. He can score in multiple ways, but it's one thing to do it in the flow of the offense and another with the shot clock counting down. It isn't going to be any easier next year. The way JO and Goodnews have improved, it's going to be a dog fight for minutes and starting positions. I'm a big Donovan fan. I'll always be pulling for him.

Perhaps he is more of a Robin then a Batman...nothing wrong with that as long you realize it and play within your capabilities.

Quote from: wh on February 28, 2021, 11:46:00 AM

Quote from: vu84v2 on February 28, 2021, 10:27:38 AMAfter last night, Jacob Ognacevic is fourth in the nation in three point shooting percentage at 51.7% (30 of 58).

...and top 3-point shooter in the MVC. ...and, he has the highest 2-pt shooting pct of all the top 3-pt shooters, suggesting that he is the top inside/outside shooting threat in the MVC. Note: Not to pour cold water on my own post, but despite having the top 3-pt shooter in the league, we are still dead last as a team.

Despite JO having the highest 3 pt %, he ranks 5th on the team in terms of 3 pt attempts. His playing time, especially earlier in the season plays a role there, but when he is that good of a 3 pot shooter, he should have more than 58 attempts for a whole season.

BTW, our other two freshman have 110 (Edwards) and 78 (Barrett) attempts each.

Barrett and JO have both demonstrated the ability to knockdown open 3 looks, but I don't think either can create their own shot. So the offense must be designed to create open 3 looks for them. I don't really understand how the motion offense works but it doesn't seem to create that many wide open looks for spot up shooters. In the last game State was double teaming the guard when JO set high screens, leaving him open from the 3 point line. Once our guards figured out how to get him the ball, he got open looks which he knocked down. Barrett may need to occasionally move through multiple picks on the perimeter without the ball to find enough space to get those open looks, but I don't think that fits a motion offense, but I don't know. It will be interesting to see how the offense progresses next year to see if it can get the guys who can knock down the three enough looks.

I will be shocked if JO doesn't start next year and play heavy minutes. He simply has to be on the court. It took him awhile to adjust to the college game, but he has shown repeatedly that those days are far in the rear view mirror.

Freshman year:

• AP averaged 12.7 PPG in 30 MPG. That's 17 PP40. JO is averaging 6.5 PPG in 12.9 minutes. That's 20.2/40.

• AP shot .383 from 3. JO is shooting .517 from 3.

He had better get heavy minutes in the tournament. He and Zion (for the most part) are all that stand between us and 7 minute scoring droughts. If those 2 guys are on, we can compete with anyone.

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2021, 12:51:39 PM
I will be shocked if JO doesn't start next year and play heavy minutes. He simply has to be on the court. It took him awhile to adjust to the college game, but he has shown repeatedly that those days are far in the rear view mirror.

Freshman year:

• AP averaged 12.7 PPG in 30 MPG. That's 17 PP40. JO is averaging 6.5 PPG in 12.9 minutes. That's 20.2/40.

• AP shot .383 from 3. JO is shooting .517 from 3.

He had better get heavy minutes in the tournament. He and Zion (for the most part) are all that stand between us and 7 minute scoring droughts. If those 2 guys are on, we can compete with anyone.

Agreed.  They difference now versus when we played them early in the year is that Zion and JO are playing and getting heavy minutes.  Zion didn't play at all and JO averaged about 10 minutes over the two games. The minutes will come from a reduced Sackey presence and the 30  plus average of minutes which Barrett got.  Eron needs to step it up and we can hope that Sheldon plays his best, not his ill timed shot taking self.

Quote from: vu72 on March 01, 2021, 01:38:20 PM

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2021, 12:51:39 PM
I will be shocked if JO doesn't start next year and play heavy minutes. He simply has to be on the court. It took him awhile to adjust to the college game, but he has shown repeatedly that those days are far in the rear view mirror.

Freshman year:

• AP averaged 12.7 PPG in 30 MPG. That's 17 PP40. JO is averaging 6.5 PPG in 12.9 minutes. That's 20.2/40.

• AP shot .383 from 3. JO is shooting .517 from 3.

He had better get heavy minutes in the tournament. He and Zion (for the most part) are all that stand between us and 7 minute scoring droughts. If those 2 guys are on, we can compete with anyone.

Agreed.  They difference now versus when we played them early in the year is that Zion and JO are playing and getting heavy minutes.  Zion didn't play at all and JO averaged about 10 minutes over the two games. The minutes will come from a reduced Sackey presence and the 30  plus average of minutes which Barrett got.  Eron needs to step it up and we can hope that Sheldon plays his best, not his ill timed shot taking self.

...and, Goodnews didn't play in either regular season game. Another possible X-factor.

Quote from: nkvu on March 01, 2021, 10:44:56 AMBarrett and JO have both demonstrated the ability to knockdown open 3 looks, but I don't think either can create their own shot. So the offense must be designed to create open 3 looks for them.

True, but the more that works the easier it works. Sackey playing less means more shooters are on the floor.  :thumbsup: Krikke seems to be improving his 3 point stroke thus spreading the defense.  :thumbsup: Morgan and Kpegeol are hitting shots, rapidly moving the ball and selectively attacking the basket.  :thumbsup: Suddenly drives and back cuts are opening and if doubles come then shooters are open.

Quote from: nkvu on March 01, 2021, 10:44:56 AMI don't really understand how the motion offense works but it doesn't seem to create that many wide open looks for spot up shooters.

In a perfect positionless motion everybody can drive, everybody can shoot and everybody can and should switch on defense. Both Barrett and JO should become better dribble attackers and back door cutters as they develop and as respect for their 3 point shooting grows. A good motion offense can beat you outside if you give them room or beat you inside with drives and passes to cutters. Granted that we are getting impatient waiting for this to evolve but just maybe we will be a well oiled machine by next March!

One possible caveat against the motion offense---- Any team with position less size, speed and shooting should be good and with enough talent even a bad offense will win a lot of games.  ::)

JO has made huge strides within his first college season.  He seemed much slower and lost at the beginning of the season, which is why he received limited playing time.  He now seems much more comfortable moving around on both offense AND defense (where he was completely lost prior).  He also seems to be pulling the trigger quicker.  I had commented on how slow his release was in the early games, and he has already made an adjustment to 'load' his cannon (that is what it looks like to me) much quicker, so that he can shoot when someone is just a few feet away.  He has also shown more of an inside game, so I very much look forward to seeing how he continues his development.

The progress JO has made was evident in the final possession of Saturday's game against ISU. He received the pass beyond the 3-point line, the D converged, he pumped faked, took it to the lane and took the short jumper (I think he missed and had the put back).  That's a scorer mentality and recognizing time and situation.  I immediately thought of AP and Rowdy.  The motion and triangle will create the space and gaps (with proper picks) to open up 3s.  JO is also rolling better, which frees space on the perimeter.  He will be a tough match up, especially if you hit the post, allow the double on Krikke (which is happening more and more), then kick back out to the perimeter.  If not at that spot, swing the perimeter, or reset with the post.  But, seeing JO create options for himself on a final possession of the half was very encouraging.

Following the weekend games against Indiana State and with a lull until the tournament action, I thought some might find this footage of a game between Valpo and ISU at Hilltop Gym in January 1953 a bit interesting. Enjoy!

Ah yes, the days of one-legged and single-handed shooting!  It also looks like people wrapped their arm around the ball a bit more when passing, as if trying to get some type of curl on the ball.  What's interesting nowadays, and I don't mean this in any way to disrespect folks that played decades ago, is that when you are playing open gym sessions, it is always the most unathletic and uncoordinated guy, that is still shooting in the manner on this video. 

A lot of running baby hooks, bunches of 2-3 zone and Valpo even  set up a picket fence.  :o

One thing similar to today is the cardboard fans in the stands.

Quote from: JD24 on March 01, 2021, 10:57:18 PM
One thing similar to today is the cardboard fans in the stands.

I'm pretty sure this was a time that InSU was blowing Valpo out and nobody was very happy about the result. I had a relative at this game but he has since passed a few years ago. I found it interesting when a group of fans kicked out another fan out of his seat there wasn't much conversation about blocking many fans views. Two underhand FTs made by Valpo!!

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/valparaiso/1953-schedule.html

Unfortunately the Indiana State game at Hilltop Gym was not listed. I could not find my relative's 1953 Beacon (yearbook) but I did find the 1954 Beacon and Valpo did beat InSU twice. At Terre Haute the Brown and Gold did beat InSU 66-65.

Quote from: bbtds on March 02, 2021, 10:07:32 AM

Quote from: JD24 on March 01, 2021, 10:57:18 PM
One thing similar to today is the cardboard fans in the stands.

I'm pretty sure this was a time that InSU was blowing Valpo out and nobody was very happy about the result.

Final score was a respectable 75-67.

Quote from: valpopal on March 02, 2021, 10:25:44 AMFinal score was a respectable 75-67.

Thank you for reporting the score.

The most interesting thing about Valpo's 1952-53 season is that Villanova was rated #19 in the country in the AP poll during the week of February 16, 1953. Valpo beat Villanova 64-62 on March 7, 1953 at Villanova Field House.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/1953-polls.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/valparaiso/1953-schedule.html

For those that complain about lack of movement in our offense, they would be glad to see that it is just a little bit quicker pace than our team of 1952-1953.  Seeing two guys literally passing it back-and-forth at the top of the key without a dribble, waiting to see if 1 specific cut opens up, and then trying again, and again, and again... 

The team avoided Thursday...does that make the season a success in your opinion?

Making it out of the bottom four is progress, albeit in a weird year. But as I've said all along, success this year is getting no impact underclassmen transferring once the year is done.

Quote from: M on March 03, 2021, 09:32:46 AMThe team avoided Thursday...does that make the season a success in your opinion?

Yes although I want to see a leap next year. If we keep everyone together we should be top 2-4 in the conference.

Yes, but I agree with the comment that it depends on if the team stays together.  If we have to keep resetting each season, it wouldn't have been a success.

Quote from: M on March 03, 2021, 09:32:46 AMThe team avoided Thursday...does that make the season a success in your opinion?

I wouldn't call it a success. We had a losing record, lost OOC games we should have won, and were very inconsistent throughout the conference season. But we also had bright spots. If this season were a swimming competition, we were the ones doggy paddling to the finish line, but we didn't drown.

As others said, the future is bright if we can keep the youth on this team together and the Freshman next year can play up to this classes level. Given the playing time that the three freshman got this year, I'd like to think they are happy with their role on the team and stay. Same for Krikke. Clay is a question mark given how outspoken his father has been, but he also didn't exactly shine this year, so his transfer options may be limited (especially in a year when everyone is given an extra eligibility year limiting opportunities).

Friday's game says it is going to be on ESPN+, but is this going to be one of those situations it is blacked out in Indiana?   

I have not had cable for 4 years.  Waste of money.   I get ESPN+ during basketball season but more and more games are either on ESPN3 or on some obscure network, both of which you need some sort of $50-$100 per month subscription through Sling, Comcast, HuluTV etc. in order to use.

Let me know if anybody has any info on this.
 

Quote from: valpopal on March 02, 2021, 10:25:44 AMFinal score was a respectable 75-67.

Just counting the score in my head that was filmed it was ISU 48, VU 34. Valpo shot 4 FTs on film and the underhanded player made his 2 & the overhanded FT shooter missed both. In general they were terrible shooters in my view. One thing I observed is I thought the refs let this game get out of hand at times. Several times players were simply knocked over on their butt and no foul was called. At one point a Valpo player totally knocked his ISU African American opponent face first to the floor with no call. The Valpo player picked up the ISU black player while the game continued. Maybe fans were just more polite in those days.

Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 04, 2021, 08:34:03 AMFriday's game says it is going to be on ESPN+, but is this going to be one of those situations it is blacked out in Indiana? I have not had cable for 4 years.  Waste of money.   I get ESPN+ during basketball season but more and more games are either on ESPN3 or on some obscure network, both of which you need some sort of $50-$100 per month subscription through Sling, Comcast, HuluTV etc. in order to use. Let me know if anybody has any info on this.

Yes, the ESPN+ broadcast is out of market only. The game is on NBC Sports Chicago+ in the Chicago TV market. Also on FOX Sports Indiana/Midwest/KC and blacked out in those areas.

Quote from: Brandon on March 04, 2021, 09:09:15 AM

Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 04, 2021, 08:34:03 AMFriday's game says it is going to be on ESPN+, but is this going to be one of those situations it is blacked out in Indiana? I have not had cable for 4 years.  Waste of money.   I get ESPN+ during basketball season but more and more games are either on ESPN3 or on some obscure network, both of which you need some sort of $50-$100 per month subscription through Sling, Comcast, HuluTV etc. in order to use. Let me know if anybody has any info on this.

Yes, the ESPN+ broadcast is out of market only. The game is on NBC Sports Chicago+ in the Chicago TV market. Also on FOX Sports Indiana/Midwest/KC and blacked out in those areas.

Stupid.   

I like the answer that the success of this years team will be partially determined by if they stay together.  I'm kind've tired of being a "young" team every single year.  Recruiting good talent is only part of the equation of success...recruiting that talent to stay once it's here might be harder than I had thought it should be.

Quote from: M on March 04, 2021, 09:27:35 AM
I like the answer that the success of this years team will be partially determined by if they stay together.  I'm kind've tired of being a "young" team every single year.  Recruiting good talent is only part of the equation of success...recruiting that talent to stay once it's here might be harder than I had thought it should be.

We technically were not a YOUNG team.  We had Eron, Nick and Zion all 5th Year seniors.  Mileek is also a senior.  What we have is a team where the production is produced by young players!

To start the season and on paper, yes.  However, Nick played 8 games, Zion didn't really play until the last 14-15 games, and Mileek has been hampered by injury all season.