The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

Looks like we have Missouri State first

http://mvc-sports.com/news/2021/2/27/loyola-earns-top-seed-for-arch-madness-outright-regular-season-crown.aspx (http://mvc-sports.com/news/2021/2/27/loyola-earns-top-seed-for-arch-madness-outright-regular-season-crown.aspx)

We were 0-2 against them this year.  It's difficult for a team to beat someone three consecutive times and we are better team
Now than when we played them.  Coaches will have a game plan.  I like our chances. 

Prim and Mosely were the only contributors against Evansville.  We need to make sure that the rest of their team plays like they did against Evansville. 

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
We were 0-2 against them this year.  It's difficult for a team to beat someone three consecutive times and we are better team
Now than when we played them.  Coaches will have a game plan.  I like our chances. 

Neither Morgan or Kpegeol saw action in those early January games. Conner Barrett saw BIG minutes in both and had maybe his two worst overall performances. On the +/- scale he was -16 on Jan 9'th and -13 on the 10'th. Will different matchups lead to different results?

Quote from: justducky on February 28, 2021, 03:09:01 PM

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2021, 12:05:31 PMWe were 0-2 against them this year.  It's difficult for a team to beat someone three consecutive times and we are better team Now than when we played them.  Coaches will have a game plan.  I like our chances.

Neither Morgan or Kpegeol saw action in those early January games. Conner Barrett saw BIG minutes in both and had maybe his two worst overall performances. On the +/- scale he was -16 on Jan 9'th and -13 on the 10'th. Will different matchups lead to different results?

We are a different team then when we played them... Maybe not a better team, but a different team that's for sure.

Quote from: valpotx on February 28, 2021, 02:38:24 PM
Prim and Mosely were the only contributors against Evansville.  We need to make sure that the rest of their team plays like they did against Evansville. 

Mosely went crazy on us with 29 points in each game. He beat our guards and drove the lane repeatedly. If we do nothing better than hold him to his 20 point average, our chances should improve considerably.

The Bradley Braves and their beloved Coach Wardle are the FIRST to go down this year.

SIU 73, Bradley 63

Quote from: bbtds on March 04, 2021, 07:01:30 PM
The Bradley Braves and their beloved Coach Wardle are the FIRST to go down this year.

SIU 73, Bradley 63

Seemed like there were more missing faces (injuries and suspensions) than familiar ones. These 2 teams could could have looked so very different! As well as SIU played their point guard looks unlikely for tomorrow and it could be really ugly against Loyola.

I actually think we are playing a lot better lately and see the upside of this team.   

However, I think Missouri State is a bad matchup for us.     Not confident we win this one.    I'm guessing an 8 point loss in a game that is not all that close most of the game.   

I do think this is a bad matchup. However, it is hard to beat a team 3 times in a season, and we are a lot different team than when we first played them. They were our first 2 conference games and we have seen improvement and a drastic change in roles since then. I think that it will be a good game, and the winner of this game will play Loyola in the MVC Championship game!

Yeah It's a bad match up for us but not insurmountable.

on the positive side, our randomness and inconsistency may make it hard for people to game plan around us.

"so if they're not making any 3s do this. But sometimes they're going to make them at and unrealistic clip so let's do this. And we need to stop Kirkke cause he can score 20 points a game but sometimes he doesn't and this other guy does. and sometimes their bench scores 9 points and sometimes it scores 38 points so in conclusion who knows which team we're playing tomorrow but honestly the probably don't either so go team"

Quote from: vok22 on March 05, 2021, 09:48:03 AMHowever, it is hard to beat a team 3 times in a season

Actually stats do not bear this out. When 2 teams meet 3 times in a season there are more results of 3-0 & 0-3 than there are results of 2-1 & 1-2.

"According to an ESPN article, from 1970 through 2019, teams that swept an opponent during the regular season and then faced them again in a tournament won the tournament game 67% of the time."


Go Wolpertingers! Go Gold! Go Brown!

Arch Madness

We can beat any team in this field.

We can lose to any team in this field.

Doesn't get any madder than that.

There is no pressure on the Brown and Gold to win this tournament - all of the pressure is on other teams to beat us. We can do this. We can show everyone out there that the MVC is a three bid conference.

Go Brown and Gold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: crusader05 on March 05, 2021, 09:59:43 AM"so if they're not making any 3s do this. But sometimes they're going to make them at and unrealistic clip so let's do this. And we need to stop Kirkke cause he can score 20 points a game but sometimes he doesn't and this other guy does. and sometimes their bench scores 9 points and sometimes it scores 38 points so in conclusion who knows which team we're playing tomorrow but honestly the probably don't either so go team"

Sounds like you found a copy of the MSU game prep notes for our Wolpertingers!  ;)   So we don't have a mascot and they don't have a clue who or what to prepare for.  :o     I'd call that an equal footing.

Quote from: bbtds on March 05, 2021, 10:10:34 AM

Quote from: vok22 on March 05, 2021, 09:48:03 AMHowever, it is hard to beat a team 3 times in a season

Actually stats do not bear this out. When 2 teams meet 3 times in a season there are more results of 3-0 & 0-3 than there are results of 2-1 & 1-2.

"According to an ESPN article, from 1970 through 2019, teams that swept an opponent during the regular season and then faced them again in a tournament won the tournament game 67% of the time."


Go Wolpertingers! Go Gold! Go Brown!

Which means the team that lost in the regular season won 33% of the time in the tournament, which is 33% more than they did in the regular season. 😃😃I'll take it

After reading and rereading the TV coverage breakdown for tonight's game, it still isn't clear to me who is providing TV coverage for the Valparaiso area? Is it ESPN+?

Quote from: wh on March 05, 2021, 01:37:42 PM
After reading and rereading the TV coverage breakdown for tonight's game, it still isn't clear to me who is providing TV coverage for the Valparaiso area? Is it ESPN+?

NBC Sports Chicago is covering all games today in the MVC. You can get them on HULU.

I read on Pomeroy that they are also on ESPN+

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 05, 2021, 02:36:23 PM

Quote from: wh on March 05, 2021, 01:37:42 PM
After reading and rereading the TV coverage breakdown for tonight's game, it still isn't clear to me who is providing TV coverage for the Valparaiso area? Is it ESPN+?

NBC Sports Chicago is covering all games today in the MVC. You can get them on HULU.

I read on Pomeroy that they are also on ESPN+

I didn't check last night but I (we) were probably blacked out on ESPN+. For my Comcast the stations are or could be 37 (ISU-Evansville playing now) or 109? (had play-in games yesterday) or 201? or 202? It might be just replays on those last 3 but there are Valley games listed so they might have missed on what teams are playing?

As expected Loyola coasted past SIU.

When I try to watch on Comcast ch 37, I don't get HD.  However, if I livestream the same station through xfinity website, it comes through in HD

Quote from: justducky on March 05, 2021, 02:58:34 PM

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 05, 2021, 02:36:23 PM

Quote from: wh on March 05, 2021, 01:37:42 PM
After reading and rereading the TV coverage breakdown for tonight's game, it still isn't clear to me who is providing TV coverage for the Valparaiso area? Is it ESPN+?

NBC Sports Chicago is covering all games today in the MVC. You can get them on HULU.

I read on Pomeroy that they are also on ESPN+

I didn't check last night but I (we) were probably blacked out on ESPN+. For my Comcast the stations are or could be 37 (ISU-Evansville playing now) or 109? (had play-in games yesterday) or 201? or 202? It might be just replays on those last 3 but there are Valley games listed so they might have missed on what teams are playing?

As expected Loyola coasted past SIU.

This is from Valpo's athletic site:

Television – The MVC TV Network (NBC Sports Chicago Plus, FOX Sports Midwest Plus, FOX Sports Indiana, FOX Sports Kansas City Plus; Ch. 201 on Comcast; ESPN+ broadcast out of market only) – Scott Warmann (play-by-play) and Rich Zvosec (analyst

Drake game cancelled.

Wow, UNI has COVID restrictions.  Does that give Drake the automatic win?  It would be good for the conference for them to win, as they might not have done so, without Penn and Hemphill. 

Drake gets auto win

"By the rules established for [MV] conference tournament events, the team that has a protocol violation or a positive test in the Tier 1 personnel are taken out of events, but the rest of the tournament and bracket proceed as if the game was forfeited."

I'm sure that's tough for Illinois State to hear today.

That could be huge for Valpo.  If we beat Missouri State, we have more game action on the neutral court, versus Drake.  Often times in these neutral court tournaments, that is a huge advantage, especially if Penn and Hemphill are still out of action. 

Quote from: VUSL98 on March 05, 2021, 06:31:11 PM
I'm sure that's tough for Illinois State to hear today.

I think it matters more to the winner of the Valpo / Missouri State game. A fresh Drake team will be harder to beat in my view.

Quote from: bbtds on March 05, 2021, 06:56:09 PM

Quote from: VUSL98 on March 05, 2021, 06:31:11 PM
I'm sure that's tough for Illinois State to hear today.

I think it matters more to the winner of the Valpo / Missouri State game. A fresh Drake team will be harder to beat in my view.

Tell that to each of the Valpo teams that had double byes in the HL, but didn't win the tournament :).  They also don't have Roman Penn, and probably not Hemphill.  Not the same Drake team at all.

Quote from: valpotx on March 05, 2021, 06:57:46 PM

Quote from: bbtds on March 05, 2021, 06:56:09 PM

Quote from: VUSL98 on March 05, 2021, 06:31:11 PM
I'm sure that's tough for Illinois State to hear today.

I think it matters more to the winner of the Valpo / Missouri State game. A fresh Drake team will be harder to beat in my view.

Tell that to each of the Valpo teams that had double byes in the HL, but didn't win the tournament :).  They also don't have Roman Penn, and probably not Hemphill.  Not the same Drake team at all.

I just can't equate Valpo teams from the HL to Drake teams from the MVC although you may be right. Even with both teams having key injuries.

Hemphill is confirmed to be out for the MVC tournament.  No Hemphill and Penn is huge, as those guys gave us fits.

UNI board is saying that it was a false positive.  If that is the case, it is complete crap that UNI had to forfeit.  There has to be a procedure for false positives and retest?

If I open a game thread we will probably have to forfeit.  :o  Do we really need one? Is anybody feeling lucky?

Looks like a big error by MVC:



"UNI and other institutions ultimately relied on Conference policies that have been in place all season and were thought to be applicable here at the tournament.  It should be noted UNI followed those procedures during their participation in the event," said Commissioner Doug Elgin.

"However, the City of St. Louis Board of Health Department COVID orders take precedence over MVC protocols, and none of our institutions were aware that this was in place."

MVC STATEMENT ON CANCELATION OF UNI-DRAKE MEN'S BASKETBALL GAME

http://mvc-sports.com/news/2021/3/5/arch-madness-mvc-statement-on-cancelation-of-uni-drake-mens-basketball-game.aspx

Since we have neither a nickname or a mascot I have designated this tournament to be "The Last Crusade".

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 05, 2021, 05:21:26 PM
Drake game cancelled.

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 05, 2021, 05:36:29 PM
Drake gets auto win

That's heartbreaking news for those kids @ UNI that worked so hard all season long to suddenly have their opportunity to play ball end so abruptly.

Just read Oren's Twitter feed on cancellation. Wow!  All for a potential false positive. What a cluster?$@& at the top of the MVC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We can't shoot.  But not very many of the shots we taking are open looks.  They are always contested.  We can't get open.  Missouri St. gets better looks than we do.

Lottich needs to hire a motion specialist as an assistant in the offseason. Too many games with huge scoring droughts. This is embarrassing.

4 points in 10 minutes. We need someone in there that can light a fire, and soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1 for 15 so far. Sad.

1 for 17. Yikes

1-17 and every shot has been difficult or contested.  Not getting open. 

We need less 'athletes,' and more guys that can actually make a jump shot.  I don't care how fancy you can dunk, or how fast you can run, if you brick wide open jump shots.  So irritating

Looks like high school freshman vs the varsity. We haven't shown that we even belong on the same court.

1 for 18!

That was our first made FG in 10 minutes

Quote from: oklahomamick on March 05, 2021, 08:34:22 PM
1-17 and every shot has been difficult or contested.  Not getting open. 

But, not THAT difficult.

Is there a lid on the basket on our side of the court?

It's not high percentage shots.  It's jump shots off the dribble.  No one is spot up and open when receiving a pass. 

This is another game where the opponent is just begging us to beat them, and we just want to take 18+ foot jump shots each time, even though we are probably one of the worst jump shooting teams in the nation.  Sure, we shoot 30% from 3, but let's try those the most, or just inside the 3 point line. 

Sackey cannot make a wide open f'ing layup... 

We suck.  And we don't even have a mascot. 

This is downright embarrassing. I told myself I wasn't drinking tonight....

With this many misses, shouldn't there be more offensive rebounds?

13 points in a half.  Did this year's team set a new record?  Absolutely pathetic shooting from a D-1 team. 

Is this our lowest points scored in the first half ever?

Yes this is our lowest scoring 1st half of the year and we have had some low ones.

Lottich will say some BS in the postgame about not hitting shots, etc. But EVERY year we have have epidemics of poor shot selection and scoring droughts.

Skilled teams have NO problem taking away our offense. We are easily scouted and adjusted for. ML has to evolve as a coach.

I'm convinced that 5 random people from this board could take the floor and score more than 13 points in a half

The first five minutes of the second half better be the most intense of the season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't tell.  But do we set a play up for our best 3 point shooter to have a spot shot on the arc?   You know those set plays we would run to get Alec Peters opened.  Everyone knew he could shoot.  But we ran plays that got him open looks.

We're just hiding Ognacevic so that we can come storming back. What other reason could there be for an over 50% three point shooter to take ZERO, that's ZERO three point shots.

Sheboygan Sharpshooter just became the Sheboygone No-shooter.

I am kind of glad that this season is ending.  We can be so terrible, it just causes me to get apathetic about Valpo basketball.  I really don't care what happens this Summer in regards to transfers, to be honest, except for Barrett, JO, and Krikke. We need guys that can shoot at a high %, not volume shooters that live below 40% overall, and below 25% from 3.

Edit: I'll add Edwards to my list.  I still don't like his basketball IQ at times throughout the game, but he at least doesn't give up and has potential.

Did anyone expect anything different?  This has been a tough 4 years. 

See you all next season. 

 a VERY short handed Drake team,(down two all league players) just beat Missouri State and will go to the finals.  Wow!  And we beat them when they still had Penn.  That probably means we get two teams in the tourney.  Huge win for the League's best coach. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Quote from: vu72 on March 06, 2021, 07:58:11 PM
a VERY short handed Drake team,(down two all league players) just beat Missouri State and will go to the finals.  Wow!  And we beat them when they still had Penn.  That probably means we get two teams in the tourney.  Huge win for the League's best coach. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Loyola now with a NET 17 should be in. Drake at NET 42 has a real shot with a close loss. MSU at NET 94 probably is out as an NIT at-large but it could be close.

Quote from: justducky on March 06, 2021, 08:12:41 PM

Quote from: vu72 on March 06, 2021, 07:58:11 PMa VERY short handed Drake team,(down two all league players) just beat Missouri State and will go to the finals.  Wow!  And we beat them when they still had Penn.  That probably means we get two teams in the tourney.  Huge win for the League's best coach. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Loyola now with a NET 17 should be in. Drake at NET 42 has a real shot with a close loss. MSU at NET 94 probably is out as an NIT at-large but it could be close.

I think the NIT is only 16 teams this year. If so they are certainly out unless a lot of power conference teams just flat out don't want to play this year.

I want to believe that Drake is safely in at this point but I just don't trust the committee. I think a close loss might get it done but winning it outright removes all doubt and gives PO something to write about with the huge NWI connections on the Bulldogs.  :) Some help on the bubble would help me feel a lot easier about things come Selection Sunday. Drake already got some help today with Mizzou losing to LSU at home and SLU losing big to St Bonaventure. If Davidson can beat VCU and then lose to SBU that would help a lot as well. But I mean come on: I know their schedule isn't good but neither is anybody's this year. They have six wins in the top 2 quadrants and zero Q4 losses. And they've done this without their top two scorers for a significant stretch. Cut the Bulldogs a break even if it is in the First Four. They deserve a shot and I really want them to get it.

I was reading one site listing bids from all conferences and it appeared that they felt Drake would have to win Arch Madness for the MVC to get two teams in. In other words no at large for Drake but an at large for Loyola if Drake beats them.

Just watched No.2 Morehead State down No. 1 Belmont 86-71 to win the OVC championship.

Quote from: wh on March 06, 2021, 09:16:17 PMJust watched No.2 Morehead State down No. 1 Belmont 86-71 to win the OVC championship.

Belmont I thought was a pretty big favorite in that game. One bid conference.

Quote from: JD24 on March 06, 2021, 08:50:03 PM
I was reading one site listing bids from all conferences and it appeared that they felt Drake would have to win Arch Madness for the MVC to get two teams in. In other words no at large for Drake but an at large for Loyola if Drake beats them.

Unpopular opinion: Drake's resume is about as strong as Loyola's. They have a 6-1 record against the top two quadrants and I'm pretty sure all of their losses are without at least one of Hemphill and Penn. Loyola has a 5-4 record against the top two quadrants and the same number of Q1 wins. Loyola is spotless in the bottom two quadrants and played a tougher schedule overall butthat 6-1 record in Q1 and Q2 speaks volumes to me. As of right now here is a list of teams those 6 wins are equal to or greater than:

Equal to:
Houston
San Diego State
Tennessee
Maryland
UConn
Oklahoma
Penn State
Seton Hall
Duke

More than
St Bonaventure
SLU
UCLA
Arizona
Virginia Tech
Boise State
Utah State
Colorado State 
Syracuse
Xavier

Consider the injuries and the relative number of opportunities Drake has vs most of these other teams by virtue of conference affiliation and I feel that they are being treated very unfairly by being told that they absolutely HAVE to win Arch Madness to get in.

I realize most of these teams have more opportunities ahead of them and many of them will probably take advantage but come on. My message to the committee is this: Either you're going to make good on your promise to take injuries into consideration when evaluating teams or you're all just full of crap and need to just admit that you're in the bag for the elite conferences and abandon any pretense of fairness. You gave Belmont an at large for Rick Byrd Do the same for Doug Elgin. He's done so much for the game he deserves to go out as the commissioner of a multibid league.

Xavier and UCLA both lost today. I wonder if maybe Drake is going to have a cushion should they need it. I wonder what they'll say about the position of the MVC with respect to being a multibid league come tomorrow when all of today's results process. Drake could get a decent jump in the NET thanks to that Q2 win they notched today. A close loss might just be enough. But maybe it is better if they win and leave no doubt. I hope the MVC can get two bids.

Some 'ologists have Drake in. Some out. All bubbl-ish. So St. John's winning the Big East tournament or Duke doing the same in the ACC or something like that really can screw things up.

We should be rooting for Drake.  This will guarantee a multi-bid conference this season.  Who would have thought such a thing would come up in the MVC again?  I remember several posters talking about how the days of getting multiple bids in the MVC were long gone, and we should have stayed in the HL...almost every sport will have multiple bids in the MVC

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2021, 01:26:15 AMWe should be rooting for Drake.  This will guarantee a multi-bid conference this season.  Who would have thought such a thing would come up in the MVC again?  I remember several posters talking about how the days of getting multiple bids in the MVC were long gone, and we should have stayed in the HL...almost every sport will have multiple bids in the MVC

I'm one of those that have kept the faith but I'm not celebrating a darn thing until I see it with my own eyes and hear it with my own ears on the bracket on Selection Sunday. The first step to securing the future of the MVC is getting there and finally pushing the multibid dream over the goal line. Once that happens it is easier to envision the future. I will say this though: If everyone comes back and uses the extra year this conference is going to be INSANE next year if everyone stays healthy.

Two teams in this year would be great. Could really use the extra revenue, especially if one or both make a deeper run. I'd say could use some funds for ARC upgrade, but now we need money for a new mascot rebranding...

Just for conversation I'll compare the Drake bubble positions for both their men's and women's programs.

Guys      Loyola should be in at NET 16.       Drake's bubble sits at NET 40 and the MVC is NET 11.

Girl's     MSU should be in at NET 21.          Drake is just off the bubble sitting at NET 47 and the MVC is NET 7.  :o.

Keep your eyes on this. It is obviously much better to be the 7'th best conference than the 11'th but both might end up in the 1 bid category.

Congrats to Loyola and Drake for their great seasons and committing to successful basketball. It's time for Valpo to do the same and not be a leach in the MVC.

Drake, in my opinion, should be in. NET in the low 40s and consistently strong throughout the season. Yet, my guess is that it may come down to the optics from this Loyola game. If they get crushed (lose by 20+), they may have a problem. Otherwise, I see them likely getting one of the play-in games.

One other argument that is sometimes made is that a team's value in a selection process should be reduced if they have key players that will not play going forward. The argument usually is "we are selecting the best teams", and this argument (I believe) is used in BCS selections. Totally wrong! Selection to something like the NCAA D1 tournament should be based solely on performance prior to the selection. On the same note, I also do not like the 'recent performance' argument - though I do think a team winning its conference regular season should carry some additional weight.

Loyola -7

Drake should get in with a loss today, but I'm guessing they'll get screwed. Ironically their loss to us may have doomed them.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 07, 2021, 12:53:05 PMDrake should get in with a loss today, but I'm guessing they'll get screwed. Ironically their loss to us may have doomed them.

That's what I was trying to say... That was a very conflicting day because I want the multibid Valley as much as I want Valpo to succeed. I want us to succeed in a multibid league. The sting of 2016 was one of the main reasons I supported this move. It wasn't the only reason but it was a big one maybe even the biggest one for me.

So far, the Drake - Loyola game is close. Good news for the rest of the conference.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 07, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
Drake should get in with a loss today, but I'm guessing they'll get screwed. Ironically their loss to us may have doomed them.

Well, if the selection committee is looking at the quad system at all, Drake should be in. Even with a loss today they will be 6-2 in quad 1 and quad 2 games. Also, they have no quad 4 losses. What else can a mid-major do, especially this year?

Quote from: tjjvalpo on March 07, 2021, 02:40:05 PM

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 07, 2021, 12:53:05 PMDrake should get in with a loss today, but I'm guessing they'll get screwed. Ironically their loss to us may have doomed them.

Well, if the selection committee is looking at the quad system at all, Drake should be in. Even with a loss today they will be 6-2 in quad 1 and quad 2 games. Also, they have no quad 4 losses. What else can a mid-major do, especially this year?

Not get absolutely obliterated by us? Finish the Bradley sweep?

Great effort by both, but when Loyola hits their 3's they can advance against anybody.

Drake?????  Still maybe?

Loyola? A seven, six, or five?

It's 1 vs. 2 when St. Bonaventure and VCU play for the A-10 Tournament championship. Both were pretty well positioned to get an at-large, even if they got upset. Fortunately for the MVC, that didn't happen.

Had it come down to 2 teams from the MVC and A-10 with nearly identical NET's for 1 at-large, I think the selection committee would favor the A-10 99 times out of a hundred. The A-10 is 9th in conference NET; the MVC is 11th. The A-10 has had more at-larges in recent years. And don't discount the fact that A-10 universities are located in major media markets in a "superior" region of the country. The very name "Drake" would have a very inferior feel to those people.

Bottom line - I'm feeling pretty optimistic at this point about 2 MVC bids, which would be huge for many reasons, not the least of which is more tournament revenue shares.

Drake will make it in IMO. The bad news is that their coach will be at DePaul next year.

I wish this game was closer... I don't know. I'm very nervous that they won't get in unless it's a nod or favor to Elgin for his retirement. They're the second to last team in according to Lunardi and the other teams behind them on the bubble all have opportunities to improve their standing except for SLU who still might be able to schedule a game or two in the meantime to try to boost their metrics a little bit. Some chaos in the MWC tournament that clears away some of the bubble teams but chalk holding in the end would really help out. But really Drake's resume has one glaring serious hole that might be their undoing. Their non-con SUCKS worse than anything I've ever seen. Even in a COVID year their non-con is really bad. They beat NOBODY of substance or note. The only thing that could really help them is if Kansas State somehow makes the Finals of the Big XII tournament. This should put to bed MLB's thesis that all you have to do is just play bad teams and drub them. Nope as I've been saying who you play still matters. You have to schedule well and when the Power Leagues won't give you opportunities you need to try other means and band together with other mids. I don't know why the mids haven't caught on to this yet? The only way we can truly take the fight to the Power Conferences now that they've more or less walled themselves off is by working together either through expansion and promoting the best of the one bid conferences to stronger leagues and scheduling alliances among non power leagues. It's our only shot at survival. They colluded against us We need to collude right back. Also though we must look inward: We NEED to deliver the top 50-75 program the MVC thought they were getting when they selected us and do it consistently. One of the reasons we're struggling to get multiple bids is because we quite frankly haven't pulled our weight in this conference and that needs to change. That and we could use some outside help. Hopefully this year is a wake up call for Belmont and they'll get tired of bum slaying and step up to get the quality games in conference that they need in order to secure their tournament hopes whenever they are good as well as the hopes of other teams in this conference. Working with other leagues (not just one league but several leagues) is a must. Expansion is a must. Or we should just be content to take our one bid and shut up and stop complaining whenever we're left out of the tournament. The time has come for the mids to look inward get real and start doing some real work. The system isn't going to change so we must work within the system to the best of our abilities to achieve our goals.

Quote from: wh on March 07, 2021, 04:22:57 PMBottom line - I'm feeling pretty optimistic at this point about 2 MVC bids, which would be huge for many reasons, not the least of which is more tournament revenue shares.

What portion of NCAA tournament revenues are media contract generated vs ticket sales? If those total revenues and future distributions are greatly impacted by the covid restrictions might it be a good year for the selection committee to throw mid-majors an extra bone or two?

Quote from: justducky on March 07, 2021, 06:49:13 PMWhat portion of NCAA tournament revenues are media contract generated vs ticket sales?

Hmm, interesting question. I found this on the NCAA's own website:

"Television and marketing rights fees, primarily from the Division I men's basketball championship, generate the majority of our revenue. Championship ticket sales provide most of the remaining dollars."

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/finances

Quote from: wh on March 07, 2021, 07:23:39 PM"Television and marketing rights fees, primarily from the Division I men's basketball championship, generate the majority of our revenue. Championship ticket sales provide most of the remaining dollars."

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/finances

OK. From there I found 867.5 million from marketing rights which shouldn't substantially change and 177.9 million (about 1/5 of the former) from championship ticket sales which will fall off a cliff. Will share payouts be reduced for this and the next 3 years? If so then my premiss "a good chance to throw mid-majors a bone", might be accurate?

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 06, 2021, 10:21:49 PMyou're all just full of crap and need to just admit that you're in the bag for the elite conferences and abandon any pretense of fairness.

I believe you are coming to a realization. Some people have been lying for a long time.

FWIW...Lunardi has Drake as a last four in. I think the listing prior to yesterday had them as last four bye. So Drake is teetering if an upset or two happen behind them.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 07, 2021, 09:19:48 AM
Congrats to Loyola and Drake for their great seasons and committing to successful basketball. It's time for Valpo to do the same and not be a leach in the MVC.

Sure thing. A leech that beat Illinois State (twice), beat Bradley, Drake, UNI, Southern Illinois, Indiana State and lost to the league champ by 2 at their place. Finished in the 5th seed with freshman and sophomores leading the way.  Thanks for your continued support.

Yeah, embrace mediocrity.

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 08, 2021, 03:44:48 PM
Yeah, embrace mediocrity.

Mediocre, perhaps like Loyola in their first five years in the much tougher MVC?

Tied for fifth in the MVC is not where anyone wants to stay, yet it is a respectable year all things considered. With the loss of JFL, did anyone expect that Valpo would win the MVC this year? Doubt it.

Quote from: valpo95 on March 09, 2021, 07:47:55 AM

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 08, 2021, 03:44:48 PM
Yeah, embrace mediocrity.

Mediocre, perhaps like Loyola in their first five years in the much tougher MVC?

Tied for fifth in the MVC is not where anyone wants to stay, yet it is a respectable year all things considered. With the loss of JFL, did anyone expect that Valpo would win the MVC this year? Doubt it.

It wasn't just JFL. We graduated the best three point shooter in Valpo history as well as the ultimate glue guy, John Kiser.  That's three starters and the vast majority of points and rebounds. Oh, then there's the Mileek situation.  A very steep hill to climb yet we advanced out of Thursday.  All in all, not bad nor acceptable going forward.

For Drake to get that second bid for the Valley, we better hope for as few upsets as possible in conference tournaments. Can't afford any bid stealers. A second tourney team would be a great pay day for all the schools!

Just to remind everyone, most fans of D-1 Major conferences see the "fairness" issue completely differently than we do. I've had many 'spirited' discussions over the years with collegues and former collegues from power conference schools (mostly Big 10) about mids getting screwed in seeding, at-large bids, pod assignments, etc., etc. Frankly, they don't care. They look at mids as a group. Within that group this year are 11 teams with NET's over 100. 

(Their view) Those teams have no business even being in the tournament, except that the NCAA wants to build in cinderalla drama as part of the story line. Add another 8 Mids between 50 and 100 NET, and that's nearly 30% of the field that by rights shouldn't be playing. Now, wh, you want us to pretend that none of that happened, and support at-larges for a handful of mids that might actually belong in the tournament. How big of a bone do you want, wh? Hey, if you honestly believe you guys are getting screwed, go start your own tournament. We have to be honest, wh, you sound pretty ungrateful.

That's "their truth." 

Quote from: valpo95 on March 09, 2021, 07:47:55 AM

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 08, 2021, 03:44:48 PM
Yeah, embrace mediocrity.

Mediocre, perhaps like Loyola in their first five years in the much tougher MVC?

Tied for fifth in the MVC is not where anyone wants to stay, yet it is a respectable year all things considered. With the loss of JFL, did anyone expect that Valpo would win the MVC this year? Doubt it.

Yes the program failed to keep JFL.

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2021, 12:07:12 PM

Quote from: valpo95 on March 09, 2021, 07:47:55 AM

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 08, 2021, 03:44:48 PMYeah, embrace mediocrity.

Mediocre, perhaps like Loyola in their first five years in the much tougher MVC? Tied for fifth in the MVC is not where anyone wants to stay, yet it is a respectable year all things considered. With the loss of JFL, did anyone expect that Valpo would win the MVC this year? Doubt it.

Yes the program failed to keep JFL.

He had aspirations bigger than Valpo before he got here and after two years at Valpo he proved he deserved to start at a Power conference school. He always had one foot out the door. That fault is not entirely on Valpo.

Two things we can/should do moving forward.
A- Focus on our facilities. That can play a role in the decision for someone like JFL to stay or leave. Valpo's facilities suck and show an overall lack of commitment to the program.
B- Use these past transfers as a precautionary tale. JFL would have averaged over 20 pts this year and been a POY candidate in a really good mid major conference. Instead he played well, but nothing spectacular for a really bad team in a Power conference. He could have stood out, but now he's lost in the crowd. Same could be said for some of the past transfers.

Quote from: vuny98 on March 09, 2021, 12:39:32 PM

Two things we can/should do moving forward.
A- Focus on our facilities. That can play a role in the decision for someone like JFL to stay or leave. Valpo's facilities suck and show an overall lack of commitment to the program.
B- Use these past transfers as a precautionary tale. JFL would have averaged over 20 pts this year and been a POY candidate in a really good mid major conference. Instead he played well, but nothing spectacular for a really bad team in a Power conference. He could have stood out, but now he's lost in the crowd. Same could be said for some of the past transfers.

Fans can perseverate over "facilities" and "commitment" from a distance, yet the reality is that these cost money. If someone comes along and donates a significant sum, the facilities will get an upgrade. For example, Prof. Kempf (who was a professor of mine, BTW) provided an estate gift https://www.valpo.edu/news/2018/06/28/gift-from-kempf-estate-leads-hilltop-gym-renovation-project/ (https://www.valpo.edu/news/2018/06/28/gift-from-kempf-estate-leads-hilltop-gym-renovation-project/) and thus practice facilities got a nice facelift/upgrade in 2018. Anything else is a waste of time given the significant financial constraints of the University.   

I would add that vuny98 is correct. To my knowledge, at least since the Homer Drew Era, the only three individuals to play in the NBA and play for Valpo are Bryce Drew, Ryan Broekhoff and Alec Peters. Although other well-regarded players did transfer and had some success, none made it to the NBA in part for the reasons 98 mentions.

I don't believe they made it into a regular season NBA game, but both Lubos Barton and Ron Howard played in the summer league, clearly getting the chance for a good look from NBA personnel.  Further support for vuny's comments.  Not sure if Raitis played in the summer league although he may have received an invitation.  And, of course, among those who didn't stay, Brandon Wood played in the G League where Ron was a fixture. 

Quote from: vuny98 on March 09, 2021, 12:39:32 PMValpo's facilities suck and show an overall lack of commitment to the program.

"Facilities" is a very broad term.  Do you mean the main arena". Then yes, it sucks and as others have pointed out, sans a big time contribution its perfume on a pig.

If you meant the practice facility, you are wrong.  It is as good as any in the League.  Weight room? who knows. Locker room was redone a couple of years ago.  Something else? The Basketball offices? Pretty nice when last I saw them.

I'd imagine at some point the Drews are going to be hit up for some money if we don't get funds elsewhere. I get that it might be a little awkward while the two sons are coaching now. But I can't image that they aren't as a family going to end up pretty financially well off in a way that could elevate our facilities and such pretty significantly if they decided to make a donation.

valpo95 hits the nail on the head. People say that basketball and athletics need greater commitment from the administration, which can reasonable restated as "put more money in the basketball and athletics programs." Given that there is a pandemic, as well as other financially-related pressures on private universities, there is not extra funding available. So, what would you defund to get to the $5M, $10M, or whatever you think is needed for a 'commitment'? The university is already planning to eliminate or streamline some programs just to stay reasonably stable...and those cuts were painful.

Disagree. Drake and Bradley can do  it, so can Valpo. We deserve more than a HS gym.

usc4valpo - while we disagree, I wish that more people associated with Valpo had the passion for the basketball program that you have.

Disagreement is good, unless you work in government where of course it goes nowhere and it gets personal...

I have passion for the basketball program because it has provided more national exposure to the university more likely than anything else. We had tremendous coaching, good student athletes and great student support. That has unfortunately diminished because the university took this success for granted. The success in the late 90s and early 2000s should have been sustained and the university failed in taking advantage of this success. I feel that we should not be satisfied in a 0.500 season and being average in the Valley - although I think for Valpo that may be just fine.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 10, 2021, 09:27:45 AM
Disagreement is good, unless you work in government where of course it goes nowhere and it gets personal...

I have passion for the basketball program because it has provided more national exposure to the university more likely than anything else. We had tremendous coaching, good student athletes and great student support. That has unfortunately diminished because the university took this success for granted. The success in the late 90s and early 2000s should have been sustained and the university failed in taking advantage of this success. I feel that we should not be satisfied in a 0.500 season and being average in the Valley - although I think for Valpo that may be just fine.

Your statement is spot on.  The New York Times published an article about Valpo dropping the mascot and the second sentence describing Valparaiso University jumps right into Valpo basketball and the famous sweet sixteen run.
"Valparaiso University, which is known for one of the biggest upsets in the history of the N.C.A.A. Division I men's basketball tournament by a mid-major athletic program......"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/sports/valparaiso-drops-crusader-mascot.html

They didn't distinguish us by talking about our choir and our well-rounded liberal arts education?  Those would be unique niches...

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 09, 2021, 06:33:06 PM
Disagree. Drake and Bradley can do  it, so can Valpo. We deserve more than a HS gym.

Bradley's facility was mostly paid for by the city of Peoria. Carver Arena. The minor league hockey team, the Peoria Rivermen, also play there.

Same in Evansville. The Ford Center is also used by the minor league hockey team, the Evansville Thunderbolts.

Besides Carver Arena Bradley uses an on campus facility. Renaissance Coliseum built in 2009 and first used in 2010 that seats 4,200.  When I lived in Peoria there was Robertson Memorial Field House which was built in 1949 and demolished in 2008. It sat on the same property as the RC. It seated 7,800 at that time and was a lot like Hilltop Gym but with seating going further on both sides.

Butler just upset Xavier, which was listed as among the last four into the tournament along with Drake by Jerry Palm. Therefore, Xavier should be out and that should help Drake.

Kansas State (Drake's best or at least most recognizable win) PUMMELS TCU 71-50 and Louisville (another bubble team Last 4 byes according to Lunardi) is down double digits late to Duke! This is a great night!

Xavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Quote from: may know on March 10, 2021, 08:12:18 PMXavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Yeah, the Duke win could be a curse. They can work themselves into a tournament spot and Louisville may just keep one themselves.

Quote from: valpo95 on March 09, 2021, 02:02:08 PM
Fans can perseverate over "facilities" and "commitment" from a distance, yet the reality is that these cost money.

I had no clue, so I looked it up:

"An example of perseveration is someone sandpapering a table until they go through the wood, or a person who continues talking about a topic even when the conversation has moved on to other things."

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. lol

Quote from: may know on March 10, 2021, 08:12:18 PMXavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Quote from: vuny98 on March 10, 2021, 08:16:02 PM

Quote from: may know on March 10, 2021, 08:12:18 PMXavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Yeah, the Duke win could be a curse. They can work themselves into a tournament spot and Louisville may just keep one themselves.

The loss didn't even move Louisville which I think is criminal on Lunardi's part. I definitely agree on Duke being a sneaky team that could steal a spot. Seton Hall and St John's are playing each other in what I would have to believe is an elimination game of sorts. If Notre Dame can beat North Carolina tonight that would be super!

Does anyone happen to know why the Ivy League cancelled its entire season, when most everyone else from 5th to the NBA played basketball?

Quote from: wh on March 11, 2021, 12:26:32 AMDoes anyone happen to know why the Ivy League cancelled its entire season, when most everyone else from 5th to the NBA played basketball?

Extreme Liberalism. I'm only partially joking.

Sports for the IVY League is incidental to the mission of the member universities and play no role in financing or attracting students.  There was no harm in being safe.

Just saw this:

Looks like Duke's season is over. You have to feel for those kids who looked poised to perhaps go on a run. It helps Drake on the bubble but man you don't want to see help come in that way.

https://twitter.com/BracketguyDave/status/1370031706456133635?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1370031706456133635%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-918432.html

Duke's had a positive Covid test and "won't play" tonight vs. FSU. What that means still is unclear but it logically means that they are out of the tournament and will finish 13-11 as a best case scenario. They could also forfeit which makes it 13-12.

Even the cynic in me which thinks the NCAA and TV people would do nearly anything to put them in the tourney at the expense of a program such as Drake thinks this will put the final nail in the coffin of the Duke possibility.

Further to the Duke situation is does it affect the entire ACC tournament get shut down as it potentially could affect the NCAA tournaments Covid protocol's.

Could end up being a bigger story than simply a team which shouldn't be in the tournament being eliminated in an unexpected way.

I think Drake is in no matter what. Two Valley teams imply a bit more money for Valpo, and the beloved adminstration can declare how successful this basketball program is.

Yes, sarcasm galore. Valpo needs to step up in the MVC.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2021, 10:11:36 AM
I think Drake is in no matter what. Two Valley teams imply a bit more money for Valpo, and the beloved adminstration can declare how successful this basketball program is.

Yes, sarcasm galore. Valpo needs to step up in the MVC.

I agree that whether Drake does or does not get in doesn't change Valpo's standing. We are who we are either way, and it's up to us to elevate our standing. It may enhance the league's overall reputation, however, which could provide a residual recruiting benefit to Valpo. There is one caveat. If the same programs dominate the conference year after year (e.g., Creighton and Wichita State), there is no residual benefit to the other 8 teams. In fact, IMO recruiting top players could be made even worse under that scenario. Put another way, why would top mid major level recruits consider programs that seem to be mired in mediocrity?

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 11, 2021, 09:29:00 AM
Just saw this:

Looks like Duke's season is over. You have to feel for those kids who looked poised to perhaps go on a run. It helps Drake on the bubble but man you don't want to see help come in that way.

https://twitter.com/BracketguyDave/status/1370031706456133635?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1370031706456133635%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-918432.html

Height of idiocy.

Duke could still play in the 16-team NIT in Dallas-Fort Worth (said with heavy sarcasm).

My view on Drake is simple. Sure it gains some small degree of additional prestige for the conference, but this is very little unless Drake (or Loyola) goes on a run (and, of course, Drake needs to be in the tourney to have any possibility at a run). The big issue here is NCAA tourney money to Valpo. My guess is that each share will be less than 2019 due to little in-person attendance and lost revenue from 2020, so getting 2X becomes important for the program and the athletics department to maintain financial stability. Loyola winning a game would be even better (though if they are an 8 or 9 seed I do not see them winning more than one game).

Remember: First four games count for shares too if I'm not mistaken. As for Loyola, if I had to pick an 8\9 seed to upset a 1, I'd be very tempted to go with them. That team is GOOD. Really really really good.

Lunardi said that the Michigan State-Maryland loser could move to Last 4 in And Michigan State lost that game by double digits Also Syracuse lost today so they likely will not climb up the bubble much. All of these things should help Drake at least a little I think. Because of how mids get treated on Selection Sunday I'm not going to pop bottles until it's official. But developments so far have been very positive. Drake even climbed from 47 to 45 in the NET rating. 

Loyola does seem to have the right pieces for a win or three.  Seniors Krutwig and Williamson were there for the Final Four.  And of course they play great defense with good offensive spacing.

Will see. Getting to the 16 or the elite 8 would be huge money for the MVC. You wonder if the single site takes March Madness down a notch.  Probably not.  I always liked to factor in the location when I filled brackets.

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 11, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
My view on Drake is simple. Sure it gains some small degree of additional prestige for the conference, but this is very little unless Drake (or Loyola) goes on a run (and, of course, Drake needs to be in the tourney to have any possibility at a run). The big issue here is NCAA tourney money to Valpo. My guess is that each share will be less than 2019 due to little in-person attendance and lost revenue from 2020, so getting 2X becomes important for the program and the athletics department to maintain financial stability. Loyola winning a game would be even better (though if they are an 8 or 9 seed I do not see them winning more than one game).

In round numbers, every NCAA share is worth about $280K to the conference over the upcoming six years. The $280K is based on 2019 (historically the amount per share also goes up by about 3% per year.)  So, if Drake gets in, it will be $280K * 6 years = $1.7M more to the MVC.  Divide that by 10 conference members, and it is about more $170K to Valpo spread out over six years.

Yes, a share is awarded for being in the "first four" games as well, so making the field of 68 is what counts.

Each additional win is also worth a share, up until the Final Four (no additional shares are awarded for wins in the semi-finals or final).

Quote from: crusadermoe on March 11, 2021, 02:40:08 PMLoyola does seem to have the right pieces for a win or three.  Seniors Krutwig and Williamson were there for the Final Four.  And of course they play great defense with good offensive spacing. Will see. Getting to the 16 or the elite 8 would be huge money for the MVC. You wonder if the single site takes March Madness down a notch.  Probably not.  I always liked to factor in the location when I filled brackets.

It's a matchup thing. Krutwig is such an unusual player for these times that he can be a pain in the ass to anyone under the basket.

UCLA loses to Oregon State 83-79

Boise State loses to Nevada 89-82

Virginia Tech loses to North Carolina 81-73

Wisconsin hangs on to defeat Penn State 75-74

All of these teams were right around Drake in the NET so Drake should get a nice bump up.

Not so good outcomes:

Kansas State loses to Baylor (not unexpected)

Ole Miss looks like they're going to beat South Carolina (again not unexpected)

Georgia Tech beats Miami (not unexpected)

Overall I think this is another very good night for Drake and their bubble candidacy. They should jump again in the NET tonight which should only help them in the eyes of the committee. Again don't celebrate until it's official but this has been very encouraging.

The BPI is highly respected because it measures just about everything. I just now took my first look at their numbers.

Good news, Loyola sits at 18!  :thumbsup: Very bad news, Drake is miles behind at 63.  :'(      Saggarin was worse. :'(   :'(

Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2021, 10:59:15 PMThe BPI is highly respected because it measures just about everything. I just now took my first look at their numbers. Good news, Loyola sits at 18!  :thumbsup: Very bad news, Drake is miles behind at 63.  :'(      Saggarin was worse. :'(   :'(

It's their schedule. Ourside of Loyola and maybe Missouri State they didn't beat anybody of note and they have two pretty bad losses and two losses to a good team by double digits. Not a good recipe for metrics and further proving that who you play still matters.

Drake got some more help today. Their NET numbers may climb with Missouri's loss. Colorado State and Utah State are in a bubble vs bubble matchup. Cincinnati popped SMU's bubble 74-71 and Georgetown popped Seton Hall's bubble 66-58. If LSU can put away Ole Miss and UCF can come back and beat Memphis that's even more help. Something to watch for: Now Oregon State and Georgetown are in the finals of their respective tournaments. This is bad as they could steal autobids which pushes the at larges all down a peg. We need those teams to lose in their finals. Drake's chances keep looking better but even with several very fortunate bubble developments they haven't moved much which is concerning to me. If you asked me now I'd say I like their chances as things stand but that can certainly change.

LSU defeats Ole Miss 76-73!

Close game between UCF and Memphis. Come on Knights!

Potential bid thief Nevada is trailing San Diego State right now. That result needs to hold.

Go Creighton and the USC\Colorado winner tomorrow!

San Diego State 77 Nevada 70 Potential bid thief is gone.

Unfortunately Memphis did prevail over UCF 70-62. All told, another good night for Drake but I still don't feel confident yet. Tomorrow's results will be telling.

Creighton and the USC-Colorado winner have to win  and the runs of Memphis and Cincinnati need to end tomorrow in the AAC semis. San Diego State beating the USU-CSU winner helps though I think both teams would be in as whoever wins that USU-CSU game picks up another Q1 win I believe. As does St Bonaventure beating VCU though I think both of those teams are pretty safely in. Like I said this has been another good night but we can't have bid thieves as the margin is still very thin.

Georgetown gets the Big East auto which will steal one from the bubble teams. Memphis played Houston to the wire which could play in their favor. Drake is in a tenuous situation right now.

Quote from: JD24 on March 13, 2021, 07:59:08 PMGeorgetown gets the Big East auto which will steal one from the bubble teams. Memphis played Houston to the wire which could play in their favor. Drake is in a tenuous situation right now.

Nope on Memphis.


Q1 wins: Drake 1 Memphis 0  Q2 wins: Drake 5 Memphis 4 Overall Q1-2 record: Memphis 4-7 Drake 6-2 Q3 losses Drake 2 Memphis 1. NET rating going in to today: Drake 43 Memphis 52. If the committee is being fair with their metrics Drake should still hold the edge over Memphis Unless SOS bites Drake: Drake 201 Memphis 75 Once again I reiterate WHO YOU PLAY STILL MATTERS. In many respects Drake despite its sparkling record and strong record in the top two quadrants is in a mess of their own making by playing absolutely no one of substance outside of conference. All their best wins are in conference which is never good for a mid major. Once again for the schedulemakers: The thesis that the best thing you can do is play a bunch of bad teams and drub them is WHOLLY INCORRECT. If that were true then why does the Quadrant system exist and why is the margin of victory bonus capped at 10? Because if these things weren't in place every team would just do that and it would destroy competitive balance in the sport more than it's already been destroyed naturally. As a conference we either need to recruit some outside help to bolster our ranks or get serious as a collective about scheduling preferably both.

Drake gets two favorable results with Utah State losing to San Diego State 68-57 and Houston holding on against Memphis 76-74. The Georgetown dismantling of Creighton hurts but I don't know if it's fatal. Lunardi has them holding steady where they were when play began today (second of the last four in). Their former conference mates (Creighton and Wichita State) really did them dirty. We can't have any more bid thieves. Colorado needs to win tonight and Houston needs to beat Cincinnati tomorrow. St Bonaventure beating VCU tomorrow would also be good I think but I think VCU is probably pretty safely in at this point with their NET of 35 and their 9 wins in Q1-2 including a sterling 7-0 in Q2. They have 2 Q3 losses like Drake but those are balanced by 2 Q1 wins. I'd have to believe they're in regardless but we never know until the committee is done meeting. By far the two most important games to be watching are Colorado vs Oregon State tonight and the AAC final tomorrow Houston and Cincinnati. We can't have Oregon State (NET 97 which is worse than Missouri State) or Cincinnati (who is only like two spots ahead of ISUb at 119) stealing autobids.

For the record both Palm and Lunardi still have Drake in their respective fields. Palm has Drake as the last team in and Lunardi has Drake as the third to last team in. We need chalk to continue to hold through the Selection show. Go Colorado! Go Bonnies! and Go Houston!

Georgia Tech is in. I don't think that changes anything. I think they were probably going to get in anyway. Early returns from the PAC 12 championship are not great as Oregon State is out to an early lead.

Colorado down by 5 at half... I'm starting to get nervous...

Down 8 now... :'(

Drake WHY did you have to play such a crappy schedule to make this even a debate? Why don't mids care enough about doing what they can to make themselves worthy of bids. Why are we not colluding to send our best against the best of other similar conferences to boost the metrics of all involved? Why are so many mids content with being mediocre\one bid leagues? We can do it There just has to be an appetite for it.

Why do I even bother rooting for mid majors? All it causes is consternation and heartbreak every single year and the worst part is most of them couldn't possibly care less about being anything more than mediocre and are content to just take whatever crumbs they are given instead of fighting for themselves. So why should we keep fighting for them? What's the point?

It's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...  >:( :( :'( Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year... 

Settle down, and let's just see what happens.  You cannot realistically be criticizing the scheduling during a COVID year?

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PM
It's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...  >:( :( :'( Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year... 

You make a legitimate point. Drake's non-conference SOS was 309, worst in the MVC. If they don't make it, they did it to themselves.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PMIt's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...    

In a normal year a #1 seed NIT bid would have some value with maybe 1 or even 2 Power 5 teams having to visit campus. This year with a neutral site and 16 teams they may have to weigh if they even want to participate.  :'(  :'(  :'(.  Lets go out on a bender!  :'(

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PMIt's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...  >:( :( :'( Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year...

I really think a couple of deep breath's are in order. Or perhaps a solid medical person to talk things over with.

Quote from: wh on March 14, 2021, 12:09:43 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PMIt's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...  >:( :( :'( Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year...

You make a legitimate point. Drake's non-conference SOS was 309, worst in the MVC. If they don't make it, they did it to themselves.

I've seen some comments regarding Saint Louis making it over Drake due to their schedule. I'm not of the kind to spend a whole lot of time figuring this one out.

Quote from: JD24 on March 14, 2021, 01:56:49 PM

Quote from: wh on March 14, 2021, 12:09:43 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PMIt's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...  >:( :( :'( Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year...

You make a legitimate point. Drake's non-conference SOS was 309, worst in the MVC. If they don't make it, they did it to themselves.

I've seen some comments regarding Saint Louis making it over Drake due to their schedule. I'm not of the kind to spend a whole lot of time figuring this one out.

That would not surprise me one bit. The only thing we might have going for us is the committee having a soft spot for the MVC for once to give Doug Elgin the Rick Byrd Treatment\Sendoff and give them the last at large bid to let him go out with his head held high and the MVC as a multibid league. At least I hope that's how it goes. That might be our only hope at this point. And if Cincinnati wins today unfortunately we might not even have that. I hope the committee does this even if it's a symbolic ceremonial tip of the cap bid. It would mean so much for the MVC to have multiple bids again for recruiting and\or potential expansion opportunities and the overall prestige of the conference. Please committee. The MVC and its fans turns their weary eyes to thee.

SLU jumped Drake in the NET today. They might be setting up to do just that. I really hope not but that's just another reason to be nervous.

I am not going to criticize or apologize for mid-major teams' scheduling, especially during this unusual season. The system is normally stacked against mid-majors obtaining fair nonconference schedules, and was more so this year. First, some major conferences like the ACC and Big Ten have 20-game conference schedules, and one of their nonconference games is the ACC/Big Ten Challenge, which basically gives them a 21-game schedule between them each season, assuring top strength of schedule status. Most also avoid difficult games with strong mid-majors whenever possible, and almost all those games that do occur take place on the major conference team's home court. The major conferences have enormous advantages in economic assets due to marketing, television, and university budgets. They normally boast better facilities, sometimes rivaling the NBA, and have a huge edge in recruiting over mid-majors.


I have even seen commentators elsewhere suggesting Duke should get an at-large bid. If Drake has a 25-4 overall record, and has a 15-3 record (losing in the championship game to a top-20 team, which also accounts for one of its other losses) in a conference ranked 10 or 11 (out of 34), they certainly deserve an at-large bid over a team that has a 9-9 conference record and was a 10 seed in its conference. If teams like Duke have all the advantages in economics, scheduling, facilities, and recruiting, they should be willing to accept the penalty when placing near the bottom of their conference standings.


Hell, call me old school, but I don't think we should let 10 teams from a conference into the tournament, including some that might conceivably have losing conference records. (If I remember correctly, Arizona once got an at-large despite an 8-10 conference record. And remember MVC's Missouri State was overlooked in 2006 despite an impressive strength of schedule and RPI of 21—plus two of the conference's other teams made it to the Sweet 16. Doesn't everyone remember the slight to the 2016 Valpo team!)

Quote from: valpopal on March 14, 2021, 02:11:48 PMI am not going to criticize or apologize for mid-major teams' scheduling, especially during this unusual season. The system is normally stacked against mid-majors obtaining fair nonconference schedules, and was more so this year. First, some major conferences like the ACC and Big Ten have 20-game conference schedules, and one of their nonconference games is the ACC/Big Ten Challenge, which basically gives them a 21-game schedule between them each season, assuring top strength of schedule status. Most also avoid difficult games with strong mid-majors whenever possible, and almost all those games that do occur take place on the major conference team's home court. The major conferences have enormous advantages in economic assets due to marketing, television, and university budgets. They normally boast better facilities, sometimes rivaling the NBA, and have a huge edge in recruiting over mid-majors. I have even seen commentators elsewhere suggesting Duke should get an at-large bid. If Drake has a 25-4 overall record, and has a 15-3 record (losing in the championship game to a top-20 team, which also accounts for one of its other losses) in a conference ranked 10 or 11 (out of 34), they certainly deserve an at-large bid over a team that has a 9-9 conference record and was a 10 seed in its conference. If teams like Duke have all the advantages in economics, scheduling, facilities, and recruiting, they should be willing to accept the penalty when placing near the bottom of their conference standings. Hell, call me old school, but I don't think we should let 10 teams from a conference into the tournament, including some that might conceivably have losing conference records. (If I remember correctly, Arizona once got an at-large despite an 8-10 conference record. And remember MVC's Missouri State was overlooked in 2006 despite an impressive strength of schedule and RPI of 21—plus two of the conference's other teams made it to the Sweet 16. Doesn't everyone remember the slight to the 2016 Valpo team!)

Of course I do! That was the day I became hungry for Valpo to move up to a better conference. When the bracket was unveiled and Bubble Boeheim took the last spot from Valpo I remember screaming "THAT'S IT! NEW CONFERENCE NOW!"  Had that not happened to us in 2016 had we gotten in I still would have advocated for taking on the challenge (I supported the idea of the MVC move when it was possible back in 2013) but I would have been much less vociferous about it.

Bonnies beat VCU 74-65. Good for Drake having the autobid go to the best team. Make the committee put teams like USU and VCU in the tournament. Make them give them a spot instead of them just taking it. This keeps Drake a part of those discussions with more spots available to them. Drake could very well hold on to one of the final (if not the final) spot(s) in the tournament but a Cincinnati win over Houston is probably totally fatal. We'll see. I really hope the committee is kind to the MVC for once. This conference deserves more respect than it's shown.

Just keep rooting for Houston!

I still think despite the SOS difference after looking at the numbers Drake has the superior case to other bubble teams. Their 6 Q1-Q2 wins are equal to those of Texas Tech and still more than Oklahoma Virginia Tech and UCLA it is also equal to Xavier and Duke. It is more than any of the bubble teams of the MWC or the AAC and also more than SLU. Here are the numbers:

Q1\Q2 wins:
Drake 6
Utah State 4 
SLU 4
Wichita State 4
Memphis 4
SMU 4
Colorado State 3

Q3-4 losses:
Drake 2
Utah State 2
SMU 2
SLU 2
Colorado State 1
Boise State 1 (Q4)
Memphis 1
Wichita State 1

As you can see, despite a pretty terrible overall SOS Drake's metrics stack up very well against the bubble. Most of these teams have 2 Q1 wins against Drake's 1 but that is offset I think by the fact that Drake has 2 more Q1 and Q2 wins than any other contender and as many (or just one more) bad loss. Furthermore, in the NET, Drake trails only Utah State and (inexplicably) SLU who jumped them today for reasons that baffle me. if there's a bubble team that I say deserves to get in it's Drake in my very biased opinion but I think it's easy to see why when you zoom out and look at the entire body of work. If they do get in the MVC should send Missouri State a thank you gift for being the third good team in the conference to provide enough support to get the conference back to multibid status. They didn't sniff the bubble but without them, this isn't possible.

It looks like Houston is going to take the autobid ending the bid thievery. This is a huge development for Drake. I had thought they could weather one thief and maybe possibly two but not three. We're going to see if that's right. The SOS might kill them here but if the Quardrant system means anything Drake should have the advantage. They are two clear of any other bubble contender.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 04:16:22 PM
It looks like Houston is going to take the autobid ending the bid thievery. This is a huge development for Drake. I had thought they could weather one thief and maybe possibly two but not three. We're going to see if that's right. The SOS might kill them here but if the Quardrant system means anything Drake should have the advantage. They are two clear of any other bubble contender.

Are you off the ledge now?  Step back, it will be ok, either way it goes :)

Here we go... I'm so nervous...

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! WE DID IT! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN!

See, take a deep breath, and it all works out. 

Please remind me again why we should still be in the HL or dominate in the Summit? Both of their best teams are always 14/15 seeds, whereas we get an 8 and 11 seed in the MVC this year.  The Valley is not dead, and if we up our game, we get more favorable matchups in the NCAA tourney, across ALL sports.  Legitimately multiple bids are likely in all sports for the MVC.  Do we just want to make the dance, or actually have a shot at winning a game?  I would rather suffer for a few years, gain our footing, and get good seeds.

Quote from: valpotx on March 14, 2021, 05:35:57 PMPlease remind me again why we should still be in the HL or dominate in the Summit? Both of their best teams are always 14/15 seeds, whereas we get an 8 and 11 seed in the MVC this year.  The Valley is not dead, and if we up our game, we get more favorable matchups in the NCAA tourney, across ALL sports.  Legitimately multiple bids are likely in all sports for the MVC.  Do we just want to make the dance, or actually have a shot at winning a game?  I would rather suffer for a few years, gain our footing, and get good seeds.

Me too! Very well said!

I think anything beyond this is a bit too much to ask but I would be very happy if both Drake and Loyola could make the second round. Loyola has two very tough matchups if they want to make the Sweet 16 and Drake getting into the second round without Penn would be tremendous!

Drake winning a play in game still counts as an NCAAT win. Would be nice if both teams could get at least 1 win to get more NCAAT $$ (and exposure).  Ultimately I don't think Loyola can take down U of I....but please let us actually get that match-up.

Quote from: elephtheria47 on March 14, 2021, 05:53:50 PMDrake winning a play in game still counts as an NCAAT win. Would be nice if both teams could get at least 1 win to get more NCAAT $$ (and exposure).  Ultimately I don't think Loyola can take down U of I....but please let us actually get that match-up.

I would love that!

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 05:14:24 PM
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! WE DID IT! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN!

Does this mean that you and I have to postpone our drunken bender  :'( or can we still use use the poor Loyola seeding as an excuse?  :thumbsup:

fight on SC baby

Quote from: justducky on March 14, 2021, 05:58:26 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 05:14:24 PMYES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! WE DID IT! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN!

Does this mean that you and I have to postpone our drunken bender  :'( or can we still use use the poor Loyola seeding as an excuse?  :thumbsup:

I'd love to but I'm in the middle of an aggressive weight loss regimen so alcohol is out for me for the foreseeable future. Feel free (if you wish) to have a celebratory beverage to toast the two bid Valley!  :) :thumbsup: ;D 8-)

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 14, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
fight on SC baby

Isn't that USC coach the one who took Gulf Coast deep into the tournament a few years back with the boys who loved to dunk on the fast breaks?

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 14, 2021, 08:37:44 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 14, 2021, 06:28:02 PMfight on SC baby

Isn't that USC coach the one who took Gulf Coast deep into the tournament a few years back with the boys who loved to dunk on the fast breaks?

Yes I believe it is! They were a 15 seed and I think they beat Georgetown and San Diego State to reach the Sweet 16. Dunk City was a lot of fun to watch! Was it 2013? 2014?

Yep. Drake would have their hands full against a quality Conference of Champions team.

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:33 PM

Quote from: Just Sayin on March 14, 2021, 08:37:44 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 14, 2021, 06:28:02 PMfight on SC baby

Isn't that USC coach the one who took Gulf Coast deep into the tournament a few years back with the boys who loved to dunk on the fast breaks?

Yes I believe it is! They were a 15 seed and I think they beat Georgetown and San Diego State to reach the Sweet 16. Dunk City was a lot of fun to watch! Was it 2013? 2014?

Sweet memory lane

https://youtu.be/0lvpsUA4UfI

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PMIt's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...     Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year...

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 05:14:24 PM
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! WE DID IT! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN!

You really should take a step back from your keyboard when you're stressed like this. Give it a minute or two.

Quote from: bbtds on March 14, 2021, 09:39:56 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2021, 11:43:06 PMIt's over... Too much bid thievery... Drake is screwed  and we're a one bid league again... I hate this so much...     Why did the absolute worst possible night have to happen right before the selection show? All that hope... Gone... All gone... Welcome to the hardest one bid league in the nation... That's where we are now... And it's all Drake's fault with their crappy BS schedule of no substance. WE NEED TO SCHEDULE BETTER or I just wish the MVC would just tell me it doesn't care about being a multibid league anymore so I don't have to care anymore either and can just be happy with whatever we get... Hopefully I'll feel better when I wake up tomorrow but I'm sure it's just going to sting again when Drake is left out just like every other mid every year...

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 05:14:24 PMYES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! WE DID IT! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN! DRAKE'S IN!

You really should take a step back from your keyboard when you're stressed like this. Give it a minute or two.

I assume that's a response to the first quote and not the second. I assume that it's fine to share my joy and elation when the bubble broke our way. If so, point taken. You aren't the only one who tells me this and you guys are right. If it wasn't so cold up here in NWI during basketball season or so late when some of the games end I would be taking a walk whenever I was stressed like that. I'm just so glad to be part of this community and that we are part of a multibid league again!  ;D

What I like is it seems majority of
Mvc fans root for the all mvc teams in the NCAAT unlike the idiots in the HL.

What I don't like is feeling like a leach

Which is why I also root for teams in the Conference of Champions. It has been awhile