Sagarin rates Mo. St. at 97 and Valpo 175. Donovan returns, but he can't be the focus of our defense as Mosley and Prim have been doing the damage outside (Prim shooting 45% from 3 and just scored 33 against SIU) and in.
Can the Beacons build on their performance taking Loyola to two OT's? By any measure, this will be a major challenge for the team. Kobe has been returning to form, but has not yet played as well as he performed in Wisconsin. If Trevor is set to go, he can help steady the offense in tense situations. Kevion seems to have found his stroke, and Kithier's inside defense was on display. If we can stay our of foul trouble, we might be able to pull this one out.
I think there should be a disclaimer at the heading. Give some of the posters a fair warning that valpo has a 46% chance of winning at home against Missouri state and there might be some negative comments.
Missouri state board says valpo isn't a very good team with only 6 D1 wins. If valpo wins Missouri state would be the second best win out of those now 7 D1 wins. Tulane was a very good win but outside of that the D1 wins are very dull.
The Tulsa local weather man (valpo grad I might add) calls for Tulsa to get a light snow dusting today. Says majority of the Midwest with the exception of valpo will see snow.
Des Moines had 11 in yesterday.
Must win for Valpo and Lottich.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 15, 2022, 10:32:20 AMMust win for Valpo and Lottich.
Yes it is! The fuse is burning.
Yeah I agree. I'm usually the one critical of those calling a game in January "must win" but in this case it's dead on. 1-5 will be really tough to come back from and avoid Thursday in STL.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 15, 2022, 09:44:05 AM
I think there should be a disclaimer at the heading. Give some of the posters a fair warning that valpo has a 46% chance of winning at home against Missouri state and there might be some negative comments.
That's like giving "fair warning" that it's going to get dark outside when the sun goes down.
Missouri State plays and up and down Helter skelter style, is this a favorable match up for Valpo?? Do we look for transition opportunities or try to win grinding it out. Kithier and Krikke will have a difficult time staying out of foul trouble with Prim. Must play a 40 minute game today, especially on D to have a chance. Have no idea if the locals are interested in showing up today.
IMO our most glaring weakness is permitting multiple shot attempts in the same possession. That factor alone has cost us wins in close games. Not boxing out is the obvious part. The other part is not moving laterally toward the ball before it comes down. Simply put, the other team is swarming the ball while we're standing flat footed hoping it dropswhere we're standing. Luke is the "big man" teacher. He gets a solid F. Ben is by far the worst at boxing out and equally the worst going after the ball. I don't see where bulking up this year has benefited his game. He's still a finesse player (which is fine), but a slower, less agile version with less staying power before he runs out of gas.
The Missouri State board is correct. Valpo isn't a very good team...yet. However, we can beat or lose to anyone in this league, with our players.
Where is the defensive intensity we had at Loyola?
No movement. Chug a 3.
I know people have complained about the lights at the Arc but today is the first time I really noticed it on TV. It looks so dark in there and makes the whole screen on the TV dull and dark.
ML had us ready for this game LOL. Weak weak weak weak coach. MLB was lucky with the Drew's, now we see his competency in the Lottich hire. Lucky to only be down 12. Defense is solid, but O doesn't exist...same shat different day.
A hint of momentum at the end of the half there. Hope we can build on it. Otherwise, it's been another lackluster offensive showing so far, as we've perhaps come to expect. I might have to start keeping track of how long our scoring droughts get. Feels like there's a 4+ minute doozy every game.
It's funny how we don't remember some of the scoring droughts that we also experienced during the Bryce as HC days
Outrebounded Mo St 10-7 in the last eight minutes of the half
Bryce and some Scoring droughts. Some seasons more than others. Not to the extent or consistency we see since he left.
Go back to 6:28 mins left in the 1st half and watch Gordon with the ball and him signal and shrug to Lottich what do we do.
The ARC is dead. There's more noise at the library.
Nothing like (poop)ing the bed in a national TV game.
This team is...not good. Actually, I'm not sure we have a team out there or just a bunch of guys doing their own thing.
I'm so sick watching a mediocre Valpo Basketball product.
We need a change at the top.
Quote from: Chairback on January 15, 2022, 05:02:20 PMGo back to 6:28 mins left in the 1st half and watch Gordon with the ball and him signal and shrug to Lottich what do we do.
Leadership at its finest, 300K a year to not call timeouts when it really matters. ML set up a good play against SIU, Kevion just missed the shot, but then we dont try against Loyola TWICE, obviously hoping they don't set up their D but instead Sheldon takes a wack AF shot. At least our D with the Bryce O droughts were better. FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR IDENTITY IS LOTTICH
Terrible call on Kithier, what a joke from the refs, Lottivh just stands there, same old crap. stick up for your guys
Agree with you swim. Horrible call. It was great D.
He has to get on the refs for that.
After getting the halftime lead down to 8, we decide that isn't a great enough deficit from which to make a comeback, so now the deficit is 18.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220115/457f150048a73c84cd5830a767e10fd4.jpg)
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Mosley gets away with some extra steps frequently.
Gordon should not be in anymore.
Put in someone who can afford to foul Mosley , get a body on him , wear him out !
Gordon a great pass to Dot Nuechterlein at the 3:10 mark.
That was pathetic. Remember how this was touted as a "veteran" team? Ugh.
I agree that Mosley gets away with extra steps fairly frequently, but is so smooth in his transitions, that I don't think that the refs see it in real time. Regardless, he is a team by himself on offense, and they just have to play good enough defense each game, in order to win.
I am not quite there, like several of you are, but I am getting closer to the Fire Lottich group.
Lottich is a good person but he has to be on the hot seat.
There is no way forward with this program that involves Lottich. I know Homer struggled his first five years too, and I wasn't alive to see that so I can't speak to that. But even by year 6 he had a 20 win season. We are already on year 6 with Lottich and are nowhere near that benchmark. It's like watching a Y men's league team. No structure on offense.
I remember being at the Missouri state/valpo bracket buster game in 2011 when Dickie V called it at the Arc. That was a hell of a time and the place was rocking. Comparing that to this blowout loss in an empty gym shows just how pitiful it has become under Lottich.
https://twitter.com/valpo_hoops/status/1482503176305745923?s=21
[Trigger warning for those opposed to negative comments]
W-L. GB
Valparaiso 1-5 3.5
Evansville 0-4 3.5
Valpo is now tied for last place. Have we finally reached the breaking point?
I was at my breaking point when we lost to 2 D2 teams. But remember when we all said it was a fluke and will prepare us better for conference play.....
Ok take the name Matt Lottich out of it. Just some numbers.
Also it was said that we have the players to win against anyone.....so what gives? There has to be an x factor in there.
W-L. GB
Valparaiso 1-5 3.5
Evansville 0-4 3.5
Valpo is now tied for last place. Have we finally reached the breaking point?
While the coach likely needs to go just to go in a different direction, I still don't see the "talent" this roster is supposed to have. A grouping of bit players all of whom are extremely inconsistent from one game to the next. That's part of the reason they were bit players elsewhere.
That said, a different coach will hopefully change that.
Quote from: Chairback on January 15, 2022, 06:41:26 PM
I was at my breaking point when we lost to 2 D2 teams. But remember when we all said it was a fluke and will prepare us better for conference play.....
I admit I still had optimism at that point, but am WELL past that now. I really don't understand how somebody can stand by and still defend Lottich, or really any of this program, at this point. No public facility upgrades, seemingly content with mediocrity (and I am generous calling it that), little to stir public interest. It is like they took the invitation to there MVC and thought that was the pinnacle of success and they can just coast now. It really does seem to me that Padilla does recognize the importance of a successful flagship sports program. In Valpos case, that is mens basketball. I really hope that he takes the necessary actions in the offseason to put us back in the right direction. Evaluating the stability of MLBs and subsequently MLs jobs, as well as launching plans for arc renovations, would be a good starting point.
I am starting to think we are nearing a point of no return, and quickly. Being only 6 years removes from our "glory days", we still have some some connections with quality candidates that might favor taking a job here for personal reasons. I am thinking Jake Diebler and Greg Tonagel. While I would need to see more on both candidates, I think both are qualified to be in the discussion for a head coaching job at this level. If we were to hit reset this offseason on the coaching position, we could still make a run at both of those candidates. I fear that waiting too long and even they will have been claimed (although I doubt Tonagel is going anywhere, unless Valpo asks). We will have been left in the dust with merely a bad job, bad facilities, no recent success, and no good direct connections looking to go into coaching. I don't want to settle for an uninspiring candidate, and I fear that anybody outside of the Valpo circle is already looking at this job with apathy.
If a new coach is required, get the best coach for the job. No need to be restricted within the Valpo family. Who knows if Tonegal is ideal for the job, perhaps if he were such a wonderful candidate he wouldn't be coaching in NAIA for such an extended time.
Didn't bother to watch this game as the Bengals were on at the same time, and wonder of wonders, one of my teams won. (Hint: it wasn't Valpo). Checked the Valpo score a couple of times and was glad I made the right choice.
I heard somewhere that the opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference. Got to say after following Valpo since the sweet sixteen run got this alums attention in 98, I'm headed in the indifference direction.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 15, 2022, 07:39:04 PM
If a new coach is required, get the best coach for the job. No need to be restricted within the Valpo family. Who knows if Tonegal is ideal for the job, perhaps if he were such a wonderful candidate he wouldn't be coached in NAIA for such an extended time.
I don't disagree. Just saying we MIGHT have a few good options in the Valpo family that won't be availiable forever, especially Diebler. The reason I value that is because I am concerned that Valpo is not a desirable job for anybody outside of the Valpo family. Why would it be? Some of the worst facilities in D1 and dwindling history of recent success. Both of those show lack of investment in the program. If I am a desired D1 coaching candidate with no connection to the school, I am probably crossing them off the list.
I love Valpo basketball, I hate accepting mediocrity. I think Matt is a great person, a dude who would be a great neighbor, but the results are not there. I am certain he feels the same.
I can't speak for MLB, who has been here a long time, but before the Loyola game President Padilla literally said, "Valpo Athletics being mediocre is unacceptable".
USC,
You speak to one of the reasons why I'm still proud to be a Valpo fan. Plenty of (justified) criticism of Matt Lottich the coach, and not a single negative word of Matt Lottich the man. Wherever he ends up I will be rooting for him to succeed.
Tundra,
I'm going to take a page from our opponents from the "Show Me" state and say when it comes to our new prez, he's gonna have to show me. Heckler said all the right things too.
Quote from: JD24 on January 15, 2022, 06:58:04 PMI still don't see the "talent" this roster is supposed to have.
I'm seeing plenty who can score but the defense and rebounding have been a major disappointments. Also those who thought Thomas and Ben would complement each other either on defense or offense seem sadly to be mistaken. The triple K of King, Kithier, and Krikke is also far more bust than boom. We need change and we need it now. How do we adjust for Northern Iowa? Can Matt find a way to keep us in that game?
I hope that President Padilla is serious enough about athletics to realize how bad of shape this program is in. Sure, bringing in Big Ten transfers is great, but only two of them even remotely move the needle. Lottich had his nice run in the 2020 MVC Tournament, but past that, it's been a whole lot of nothing.
Nativecheeshead said it best.
I will root for Matt where ever he lands. Our previous president said all the right things about Valpo athletics and never delivered. Both right on the money.
For the ones that continue to defend the current performance or performance over the last 6 years.....You have lost a lot of credibility and your posts should be taken with a grain of salt.
Lottich is now 91-88 at Valpo over the last 6 years.
But, take out his first season (24-9) and his record is really 67-79.
But those 67 wins include 8 "wins" over Trinity, East-West, and other type of programs.
Take those out and we're left with a 59-79 record against Division 1 play over the past five years.
We have a pretty good record against the MAC and OVC teams this year. Actually the OVC is looking for schools. Maybe we can join Western Illinois as a package deal that couldn't refuse.
Quote from: mj on January 15, 2022, 09:09:00 PM
Lottich is now 91-88 at Valpo over the last 6 years.
But, take out his first season (24-9) and his record is really 67-79.
But those 67 wins include 8 "wins" over Trinity, East-West, and other type of programs.
Take those out and we're left with a 59-79 record against Division 1 play over the past five years.
This is telling. When Homer had much difficulty in years 2-4, the AD must have been able to evaluate the talent of Homer coaching, the talent of the assistant coaches, and the incoming talent coming into the program. He must have also seen improvement in how they played and competed as a team. Otherwise, no one would have given Homer another year, except for the potential recruit Homer had at home.
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That was before the program had expectations. Now there is a standard.
I haven't heard anything specific about Trevor but it appears that the back problem is limiting his play? Even in a dismal performance our team handed out 13 assists with just 7 TO's.
Point guard specific--- Assists to Turn Overs Trevor 42-15. Darius 31-12 Preston 13-2 Which total 86-29 and they also combine for 26 steals with 14 by DeAveiro in 245 minutes. Actually this the only bright spot on the season that I can think of.
I think back to the 2019 game at Arkansas in a hostile road environment in Little Rock. Ambushed in the first 12 minutes of the game by 3 current NBA players, but fought back to take the lead at half, had the lead with 3 minutes left in the game. Javon Elevated the play of so many around him in that game and many others that season. Who does that on this team? Does our team know who's team it is? Is it Kobe? Krikke? Anderson? Edwards? Can this team/coaching staff figure out the chemistry on offense before the season ends? Why is this team so inconsistent with energy on defense? DeAvario needs to play more. Good energy, plays hard on defense, good ball handler.
Things must be bad. Remember all those guys who transferred out last spring? I'm actually starting to miss them. :(
I wonder about Valpo's financial situation. Absent a wealthy alum who can just write a check, does Valpo have the resources to fund a new or redesigned basketball facility? Does Valpo have the resources to buy out Matt's contract if they wanted to? And yes, Matt may be a great guy yadda yadda yadda, but ultimately you are what your record says you are, and his record has not been very good. If they don't have the resources then all talk about what needs to be done is pointless. If they do and they choose not to utilize them then that tells you all you need to know about how the university feels about the program. If they don't then absent some wealthy and generous benefactor, nothing will change. Adding two successful programs to the conference will cement our position in the bottom third of the conference. We will become consistent losers and the university can say we are a D1 program in the MVC to potential students without mentioning that we don't seriously want to compete. That is not a program I care to follow. At this stage of my life I will not further invest in a program that doesn't care to continue a tradition of success. I have local teams I can follow, and even the lowly Bengals have finally invested enough to field a playoff game winner after 31 years of futility. So Valpo, show me you care enough to start making some changes.
To put it bluntly, JFL is the only player we've had since Peters that I felt confident we could build a winning program around. Until, of course, he transferred. Whether it was truly to be closer to family in Chicago (as if Valpo isn't close enough?) or other factors were at play, we'll never know. But part of building a successful program is keeping those key players happy enough to want to stick around. We've taken enough Ls on the transfer market that I just don't think the culture here behind the scenes is good enough.
Digressing a bit, I like DeAveiro and the energy he brings. Reminds me a bit of Erik Buggs. Hope he gets more minutes.
Digressing a bit, I like DeAveiro and the energy he brings. Reminds me a bit of Erik Buggs. Hope he gets more minutes.
[/quote]
He must have really shown something in this game. My assessment after the Loyola game was that he isn't quick enough to beat defenders off the dribble and that bigger guards could easily back him down any time they wanted and score over him. My thought was that he really needs to hit the weights this off season and bulk up a bit. But again I didn't watch this game so...
Last year's version of Donovan Clay wanted to play the wing exclusively, even though he was a poor 3-point shooter and couldn't beat his defender off the dribble. When they played him inside, posted him up, etc. he pouted, argued with the coaches, and generally spread ill will. One of the reasons JO gave for leaving was that Clay was given preferential treatment. Despite getting his way, he and his helicopter dad abandoned ship.
I had to chuckle watching him play yesterday. His offensive role at MSU is far more limited than it ever was at Valpo. He's still a good defender and rebounder, but he's the last scoring option.
It is worth noting that we made our run at the end of the first half when Prim was on the bench. Before the game I wondered if we had an answer for the duo of Prim and Mosley, and we just don't have the strength inside to neutralize Prim, and Mosley was really, really good last night. His ability to answer even when well-guarded after each time that Valpo looked like we could threaten, ensured that no momentum could be gained.
It was clear that Trevor was in pain; even in warmups he occasionally winced when throwing up a three.
Kevion has been hitting threes in recent games, but he has such a low release that Donovan's length took away that shot.
Against Loyola, Kobe was able to finish around the rim, not yesterday. I think we all expected that he would be a go-to guy this year, but he hasn't performed as he did when wearing a Badger uniform.
Prim pushed Krikke off of the block and limited his moves in the paint. He ended up being a couple feet further from the bucket when he would try to lay it in. I don't have a shot chart, but I would guess that his points came when he was facing the basket or when Prim was on the bench.
Is it a surprise that Kithier was in foul trouble trying to corral Prim?
It's been a while since I have been in a crowd that has been so dead, and I really believe that Mosley was the biggest reason for that. Adding to the misery was a "Valpo fan" who thought that it was his responsibility to take advantage of the crowd's silence to yell at Lottich. Who knows, maybe he is one of the posters on this board. The behavior did nothing to support a struggling team.
BTW, is it MoSt's usual practice not to participate in introductions (they just huddled instead), or did they mistakenly fear that Donovan would be subjected to abuse by the fans?
Quote from: wh on January 16, 2022, 03:20:30 AMHis offensive role at MSU is far more limited than it ever was at Valpo. He's still a good defender and rebounder, but he's the last scoring option.
Clay is a fantastic fit in this supporting role and he now clearly recognizes those situations when he needs to finish! Good for him and good coaching as well. He might have been the best Valpo player on the floor yesterday. Maybe we should all transfer our support to MSU?
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 16, 2022, 05:47:19 AM
It's been a while since I have been in a crowd that has been so dead, and I really believe that Mosley was the biggest reason for that. Adding to the misery was a "Valpo fan" who thought that it was his responsibility to take advantage of the crowd's silence to yell at Lottich. Who knows, maybe he is one of the posters on this board. The behavior did nothing to support a struggling team.
Where was the fan sitting, and what did he say? My seats are behind the visitor's bench, top row of the lower section. I didn't hear anything.
I may have been thinking some things. :)
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 16, 2022, 05:47:19 AMBTW, is it MoSt's usual practice not to participate in introductions (they just huddled instead), or did they mistakenly fear that Donovan would be subjected to abuse by the fans?
I believe that is what they usually or frequently do so I didn't take notice. Clay got some applause when announced. :thumbsup:
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 16, 2022, 05:47:19 AMIs it a surprise that Kithier was in foul trouble trying to corral Prim?
No but he did foul out in Mileek McMillan like minutes while largely being owned by Prim.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on January 16, 2022, 01:20:38 AMI like DeAveiro and the energy he brings. Reminds me a bit of Erik Buggs. Hope he gets more minutes.
Is it time for our old or new coach to start rebuilding? Against Northern Iowa we could start Hedstrom, Woodyard, DeAveiro, Ruedinger and "Pick your Poison". Maybe we can shrink the point spread?
Basketball is the flagship sport at Valpo and was successful. I am guessing the $250M campaign does not guarantee revenue, or the scholarship discounts given to students to promote enrollment has been too generous.
Was Valpo really in a position to move to a conference where higher financial commitment was necessary?
Quote from: Valpo89 on January 16, 2022, 08:04:05 AM
Where was the fan sitting, and what did he say? My seats are behind the visitor's bench, top row of the lower section. I didn't hear anything.
I may have been thinking some things. :)
It was after a foul was called on Kithier -- not a terrible call. He yelled for about thirty seconds, "Lottich stand up for your team, Lottich stand up for your team..."
I felt like the refs played a role in the Loyola game, but last night I thought that they did a pretty good job.
I have been unable to attend any games live this year but a few friends in the chairback section mentioned the yelling fan to me after the game. It was the first thing they brought up. Apparently it was very loud and Lottich had to hear it. Some
people just can't control themselves I guess.
The die hard fan base is waning for sure. If this continues expect a bigger drop off in attendance next year.
Quote from: justducky on January 16, 2022, 08:08:31 AM
Is it time for our old or new coach to start rebuilding?
Matt will remain as coach this year and next. Valparaiso University is in no position to buy out his contract, and that assumes they're even thinking about it. The university is dealing with a significant budget shortfall as it is. They've cut programs and laid off people. There's no way they're going to throw away money buying out a coaching contract.
We won 8 Div1 games last year as I recall. I think we have 6 Div1 wins under our belt to date. I'm not so sure we will exceed that great achievement this year. Maybe 9?
KenPom has us winning two more this year. We did set a new record of getting beat by two Div2 teams this year. Things are looking good for the future. Go Valpo.
I'm sure as hell not buying season tickets. There was a time very long ago when I couldn't wait to buy them. Those days are over.
Wh, if you're correct, what a horrible job of negotiating MLB did on Lottich's contract extension, tying his legacy to a coach based on 4 days in March 2020.
If we finish in the bottom four of the conference for the fourth time in five years and Lottich is retained, I will object in the only way I am able as a fan. With my wallet. For the first time since my graduation in 99, I will not spend a dime on this program. No donations, no season tickets, no parking pass, etc.
Quote from: wh on January 16, 2022, 09:27:53 AM
Quote from: justducky on January 16, 2022, 08:08:31 AM
Is it time for our old or new coach to start rebuilding?
Matt will remain as coach this year and next. Valparaiso University is in no position to buy out his contract, and that assumes they're even thinking about it. The university is dealing with a significant budget shortfall as it is. They've cut programs and laid off people. There's no way they're going to throw away money buying out a coaching contract.
Unfortunate because elsewhere he would likely be gone by midweek. Might he offer his resignation?
As to the rebuilding portion of my question I'd like to know your thinking. Matt seems unable to hold on to players even when times and prospects are good. I'm sure you've noticed that times aren't good and I wonder if prospects for key players returning isn't quickly diminishing.
Please take your time answering as we are at an important fork in the road.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 16, 2022, 09:59:57 AM
Wh, if you're correct, what a horrible job of negotiating MLB did on Lottich's contract extension, tying his legacy to a coach based on 4 days in March 2020.
If we finish in the bottom four of the conference for the fourth time in five years and Lottich is retained, I will object in the only way I am able as a fan. With my wallet. For the first time since my graduation in 99, I will not spend a dime on this program. No donations, no season tickets, no parking pass, etc.
Money talks, BS walks.
At this point, the longer he sticks around at Valpo, the more damage he does to his own reputation as a coach. Especially with another offseason where his players desert him.
Hopefully he realizes that and does the right thing for everyone. Plus it allows him to go out on his own terms.
Yesterday's game was indeed perplexing. I was thinking from prior comments that tended to be an out of control team. That was not the case. Their defensive pressure the first half greatly reduced high percentage shots in the first half. It appeared we could dent Missouri States armor with a more open attack in the second half. The result was about the same. When we did have little mini runs the Missouri State coach was calling time outs. He was not going to lose control. Always saw 3 or 4 purple jerseys to one white in the offensive rebounding war. I will be interested to see how Matt approaches this team on the road and what adjustments are made.
I was sitting several rows away from the vocal fan. He has been loud throughout the years. Actually, I have friends who changed their seats as a direct result of his past actions. The most perplexing part was some inappropriate language and the duration of the rant. Matt is in the proverbial kitchen and there is heat. However, in my opinion the rant was inappropriate.
I think the most concerning part of this whole situation is the lack of ANY sign of progress over the years. It is a flat line. Doesn't seem like Lottich has learned really anything on the job. We have been having the same issues his entire career, in game coaching and player retention. Add to the list the lackadaisical attitude the team takes to all but a handful of games, offensive confusion, and general inconsistency. These are all issues the critics pointed out in his first year as coach. 6 years later, they are the same issues. I remember noticing how much worse the offense looked Alec Peters senior year compared to his first 3, but just attributed it to Keith Carter not being allowed to return. Then for the next few years I kept saying "all we need is a good solid point guard that doesn't turn the ball over, can shoot, and run the offense." We have that on our team now. In fact, if they all qualified, all 3 of our point guards would have top 30 assist to turnover ratios. The fact of the matter is there is no offense to run.
That guy is an a-hole. The first game after the mask rule was put in place, I saw him yelling down at a fan who apparently wasn't wearing his mask properly, or whatever. He was boorish and obnoxious. I'm assuming he and trouble run into each other fairly often. ;)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8Pw10eTsafA&feature=share
Breathtakingly inspiring.
Quote from: vok22 on January 16, 2022, 12:03:40 PMIn fact, if they all qualified, all 3 of our point guards would have top 30 assist to turnover ratios. The fact of the matter is there is no offense to run.
Hmmm ??? I don't think that could be said any better.
In that post game interview he is clearly frustrated and to me questioning the players effort. Something isn't right for sure.
My question is not ready to play or not prepared to play. I believe Missouri State took the wind out of our sails in the first 10 minutes. Since there is little press coverage, who is actually at the press conference?
Being the old fart that I am, I remember obnoxious fans in the 80s during the Smith years. Perhaps blowing steam at the refs and coach was more feasible for them for their mental health than seeing a psychologist.
I was at Valpo- Drake football games and saw some embarrassing football parents you just wanted to arrest.
You get morons and losers at all sporting events.
Quote from: Old Timer on January 16, 2022, 03:06:06 PM
My question is not ready to play or not prepared to play. I believe Missouri State took the wind out of our sails in the first 10 minutes. Since there is little press coverage, who is actually at the press conference?
It sounded like Paul and Brandon were asking questions.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 15, 2022, 07:39:04 PMIf a new coach is required, get the best coach for the job. No need to be restricted within the Valpo family. Who knows if Tonegal is ideal for the job, perhaps if he were such a wonderful candidate he wouldn't be coached in NAIA for such an extended time.
I'm in agreement here. I can't recall seeing Tonegal's name mentioned with any other program although I can't say I was looking for it. Sometimes it comes across as fanboy stuff. Why it has to be him with some I haven't gotten.
I also agree about the family nonsense which is exactly what it is...nonsense. Go get the best guy you can.
Quote from: justducky on January 15, 2022, 08:28:50 PMQuote from: JD24 on January 15, 2022, 06:58:04 PMI still don't see the "talent" this roster is supposed to have.
I'm seeing plenty who can score but the defense and rebounding have been a major disappointments. Also those who thought Thomas and Ben would complement each other either on defense or offense seem sadly to be mistaken. The triple K of King, Kithier, and Krikke is also far more bust than boom. We need change and we need it now. How do we adjust for Northern Iowa? Can Matt find a way to keep us in that game?
I was one of those who felt Krikke and Kithier could play together but I think I've been spectacularly wrong on that front. Kithier is the type of player who puts up stats (I think) because in a certain sense in a basketball game someone has to. In other words if they stuck my butt out there for 30 mins the ball would find its way into my hands for 8 bounds a game. He's a slow leaper and that hurts defensively as well. Same thing with a guy like Taylor when he was playing last year. Someone has to score for some teams.
Even King's been a disappointment. He's got some ability but he probably needs to be the team's 3rd or 4th best player. I actually think Anderson's been the best of the transfers but I think he's a problem on defense.
Quote from: Chairback on January 16, 2022, 02:32:38 PMIn that post game interview he is clearly frustrated and to me questioning the players effort. Something isn't right for sure.
Whether the effort should be stated or implied publicly, if he was, he wasn't the only one. I hope each player took a good look in the mirror after that game.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 16, 2022, 03:23:53 PMBeing the old fart that I am, I remember obnoxious fans in the 80s during the Smith years. Perhaps blowing steam at the refs and coach was more feasible for them for their mental health than seeing a psychologist. I was at Valpo- Drake football games and saw some embarrassing football parents you just wanted to arrest. You get morons and losers at all sporting events.
The football crowd has always been worse than the basketball crowd in down years. Likely more player parents who feel little johnny should be playing or playing more. That typically happens much less in basketball.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 16, 2022, 03:23:53 PM
Being the old fart that I am, I remember obnoxious fans in the 80s during the Smith years. Perhaps blowing steam at the refs and coach was more feasible for them for their mental health than seeing a psychologist.
I was at Valpo- Drake football games and saw some embarrassing football parents you just wanted to arrest.
You get morons and losers at all sporting events.
I remember somebody flipping the bird at Smith. Oh, wait. That wasn't a fan.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: JD24 on January 16, 2022, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Chairback on January 16, 2022, 02:32:38 PMIn that post game interview he is clearly frustrated and to me questioning the players effort. Something isn't right for sure.
Whether the effort should be stated or implied publicly, if he was, he wasn't the only one. I hope each player took a good look in the mirror after that game.
I never understand the abstract notion of effort and sometimes think it seems a convenient target for blame that cannot be measured. Admittedly, I only played at the high school level and certainly not D-1 college, but if I get to play on scholarship at the D-1 level for a limited number of games in a season, once or twice a week, on television in front of a home crowd, with my teammates depending upon me, how the hell am I not going to give 100% effort every time?
Quote from: covufan on January 16, 2022, 04:06:15 PMI remember somebody flipping the bird at Smith. Oh, wait. That wasn't a fan.
Flipping folks off is out and bare ass mooning folks is in. I favor the later because I like to try to stay in step with the times. :)
Wish he got to see a better game.
[tweet]1482828586868523014[/tweet]
Quote from: valpopal on January 16, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
Wish he got to see a better game.
[tweet]1482828586868523014[/tweet]
Yikes. That is an awful showing...
Quote from: valpopal on January 16, 2022, 04:11:49 PMQuote from: JD24 on January 16, 2022, 03:56:01 PMQuote from: Chairback on January 16, 2022, 02:32:38 PMIn that post game interview he is clearly frustrated and to me questioning the players effort. Something isn't right for sure.
Whether the effort should be stated or implied publicly, if he was, he wasn't the only one. I hope each player took a good look in the mirror after that game.
I never understand the abstract notion of effort and sometimes think it seems a convenient target for blame that cannot be measured. Admittedly, I only played at the high school level and certainly not D-1 college, but if I get to play on scholarship at the D-1 level for a limited number of games in a season, once or twice a week, on television in front of a home crowd, with my teammates depending upon me, how the hell am I not going to give 100% effort every time?
I agree with the how the hell part but I think it certainly happens and yesterday's was an example from where I sit.
Quote from: valpopal on January 16, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
Wish he got to see a better game.
[tweet]1482828586868523014[/tweet]
As a 3-star, 6'8"/210 lb., 50% 3-point shooter, who averages 25 PPG and is the 4th ranked player in his state, hopefully he's thinking things will be different when I get here.
I was asking questions, as did the Torch student reporter that was at the game. I'm continuing to go to games leading up to the launch of new venture in two weeks.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 16, 2022, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 16, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
Wish he got to see a better game.
[tweet]1482828586868523014[/tweet]
Yikes. That is an awful showing...
1,600
Strong Weak. A Saturday game, student section was empty and where was the band? Are students back from break?
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 16, 2022, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 16, 2022, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 16, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
Wish he got to see a better game.
[tweet]1482828586868523014[/tweet]
Yikes. That is an awful showing...
1,600 Strong Weak. A Saturday game, student section was empty and where was the band? Are students back from break?
Looks like classes started last Wednesday. We are so far in over our heads being in the Missouri Valley Conference in every respect:
• lost all media coverage
• completely unacceptable venue that isn't properly maintained
• shabby little crowds
• students that don't support their program anymore
• a band that doesn't bother to show up
• a 5-minute weekly coaches show published twice in 12 weeks
• professional halftime entertainment at 1 game in the past 2 seasons
• bizarrely overpriced chairback seats apparently priced by someone who lives in a parallel universe
• no facility improvement plan
• no donors (that anyone's aware of)
• and last, but not least, a men's bb program that has completely lost it way
We are the Peter Principle's poster child:
We have risen to "a level of respective incompetence": we were promoted based on our success in lesser jobs until we reached a level at which we are no longer competent.
Management bears full responsibility for promoting someone to their level of incompetence. The Missouri Valley Conference bears full responsibility for this mess. They got caught up in our history of success and failed to recognize that we were completely ill prepared and incapable of competing at yet a higher level. Now they're stuck with us.
Someone said Matt Lottich should do the right thing and resign. The harsh reality is Valparaiso University should do the honorable thing and resign from the MVC. Of course we won't. We'll continue to follow a false premise that all we have to do is find a white knight just waiting for our call so he can come and save us. Maybe even a successful NAIA coach. Right.
Quote from: wh on January 16, 2022, 09:01:43 PM
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 16, 2022, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 16, 2022, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 16, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
Wish he got to see a better game.
[tweet]1482828586868523014[/tweet]
Yikes. That is an awful showing...
1,600 Strong Weak. A Saturday game, student section was empty and where was the band? Are students back from break?
Looks like classes started last Wednesday. We are so far in over our heads being in the Missouri Valley Conference in every respect:
• lost all media coverage
• completely unacceptable venue that isn't properly maintained
• shabby little crowds
• students that don't support their program anymore
• a band that doesn't bother to show up
• a 5-minute weekly coaches show published twice in 12 weeks
• professional halftime entertainment at 1 game in the past 2 seasons
• bizarrely overpriced chairback seats apparently priced by someone who lives in a parallel universe
• no facility improvement plan
• no donors (that anyone's aware of)
• and last, but not least, a men's bb program that has completely lost it way
We are the Peter Principle's poster child:
We have risen to "a level of respective incompetence": we were promoted based on our success in lesser jobs until we reached a level at which we are no longer competent.
Management bears full responsibility for promoting someone to their level of incompetence. The Missouri Valley Conference bears full responsibility for this mess. They got caught up in our history of success and failed to recognize that we were completely ill prepared and incapable of competing at yet a higher level. Now they're stuck with us.
Someone said Matt Lottich should do the right thing and resign. The harsh reality is Valparaiso University should do the honorable thing and resign from the MVC. Of course we won't. We'll continue to follow a false premise that all we have to do is find a white knight just waiting for our call so he can come and save us. Maybe even a successful NAIA coach. Right.
Weren't you criticizing others for negative posts just a few days ago? ("You guys should take your posts over to the Loyola board. They'll love you over there.") I guess this answers my question from earlier today asking whether we have hit the breaking point. We have.
Quote from: wh on January 16, 2022, 09:01:43 PM
• a 5-minute weekly coaches show published twice in 12 weeks
I just wanted to jump in and provide a clarification as I know you've brought up the coaches shows on several occasions. We rotate weeks between men's basketball and women's basketball, so Mary joins me every other week. I've done three men's coaches show with Matt and the fourth will be recorded tomorrow and published this week, plus there have been just as many coaches shows featuring women's basketball. There were a few weeks where we did not a record with either coach during the nonconference season due to travel to Stanford and the Bahamas plus the weeks of Christmas and New Years, but now that we're into conference play and the schedule is more consistent, we're into a rhythm of coaches shows every week rotation between men's and women's.
So despite my lack of insider knowledge, I actually have an answer to the band question. I had some students sit behind me at the game last night (apparently some of the students sit in the chair backs now since there's so many open.) and overheard one of them say that only 9 people showed up for the pep band after winter break so it is effectively disbanded (pun intended). They're working on getting enough together for a couple of games but it will be touch and go.
WH, you are correct that Valpo is in over it's head in the MVC.
But so is our coach. His first ever head coaching job was taking over the NIT runner-up champion. Never even managed a YMCA team......Yes he played at a high level but he had no coaching experience. Way in over his head.
The basketball atmosphere at the ARC was a major selling point of the university. Hell, it's one of the reasons I wanted to go to Valpo.
It blows my mind that the university squandered an asset like that. An asset that gave the university exposure on national tv. Especially at a time when the school has financial difficulties.
The students turned out for the volleyball team earlier this season, so I do have some hope that atmosphere could return. But this needs to be a priority of the school. Immediately.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 16, 2022, 09:38:35 PM
So despite my lack of insider knowledge, I actually have an answer to the band question. I had some students sit behind me at the game last night (apparently some of the students sit in the chair backs now since there's so many open.) and overheard one of them say that only 9 people showed up for the pep band after winter break so it is effectively disbanded (pun intended). They're working on getting enough together for a couple of games but it will be touch and go.
Pep bands have been an ever present staple of high school and college basketball games across the nation for generations. They are unfailing, irrespective of school size, team record, weather conditions, conflicting priorities, whatever. Band members are the first to arrive and last to leave. They are a part of Americana - except for one national university in northwest Indiana that plays division-1 basketball as a member of an elite mid-major conference full of rich tradition.
We are in desperate need of a complete restart.
Quote from: mj on January 16, 2022, 10:26:53 PM
The basketball atmosphere at the ARC was a major selling point of the university. Hell, it's one of the reasons I wanted to go to Valpo.
It blows my mind that the university squandered an asset like that. An asset that gave the university exposure on national tv. Especially at a time when the school has financial difficulties.
The students turned out for the volleyball team earlier this season, so I do have some hope that atmosphere could return. But this needs to be a priority of the school. Immediately.
I remember my first recruiting visit to Valpo in 1998. It was during March Madness, and students were lining up outside the ARC for tickets to something. Growing up in TX, at a time when no one cared about college basketball in the state, I had no idea that Valpo had just made the Sweet 16. Seeing that enthusiasm from students at a small school, was a small part of what helped me to pick Valpo over Buck Futler & Creighton.
Not to knock seven bells but the crew seems restless. Many fans lost or are losing hope in their captain and feel this ship has run aground. Others are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
It seems the perfect storm is culminating and even the brightest Beacon of light may not be able to guide this ship safely back to shore. Batten down the hatches for this will be an interesting ride.
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 17, 2022, 11:00:08 AM
Not to knock seven bells but the crew seems restless. Many fans lost or are losing hope in their captain and feel this ship has run aground. Others are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
It seems the perfect storm is culminating and even the brightest Beacon of light may not be able to guide this ship safely back to shore. Batten down the hatches for this will be an interesting ride.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXaxBME99yZ3YCUeA-5kFdfIBQewvw1j5KVw&s
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 17, 2022, 11:00:08 AM
Not to knock seven bells but the crew seems restless. Many fans lost or are losing hope in their captain and feel this ship has run aground. Others are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
It seems the perfect storm is culminating and even the brightest Beacon of light may not be able to guide this ship safely back to shore. Batten down the hatches for this will be an interesting ride.
Worst case imaginable could be coaches returning accompanied by almost no returning press, fans or players. The nightmares continue.
Is the die cast already?
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2022, 09:35:02 PM
Quote from: wh on January 16, 2022, 09:01:43 PM
• a 5-minute weekly coaches show published twice in 12 weeks
I just wanted to jump in and provide a clarification as I know you've brought up the coaches shows on several occasions. We rotate weeks between men's basketball and women's basketball, so Mary joins me every other week. I've done three men's coaches show with Matt and the fourth will be recorded tomorrow and published this week, plus there have been just as many coaches shows featuring women's basketball. There were a few weeks where we did not a record with either coach during the nonconference season due to travel to Stanford and the Bahamas plus the weeks of Christmas and New Years, but now that we're into conference play and the schedule is more consistent, we're into a rhythm of coaches shows every week rotation between men's and women's.
I was hoping you had a better story than that, but it is what it is. For openers Women's basketball is a different sport with a different coach. It's also a sport that I have no personal interest in, so I wouldn't know what you do over there, nor do I care. What I do know is you formerly hosted a weekly show called basketball weekly, featuring men's bb coach Matt Lottich. The purpose was to review the games from the prior week (not the prior 2 weeks, and look ahead to upcoming games that week (not 2 weeks). That would make it a weekly show - by itself. Thus, you have reduced what was by name - and deed - a weekly show covering Valpo's flagship sport - MEN's basketball - to 2 or 3 total occurrences this season. If this isn't accurate, let me know and I'll be the first to apologize. If it is accurate, maybe you should try owning it rather than changing the definition of what Valpo weekly means to paper over a drastic reduction of Matt Lottich interviews.
Quote from: wh on January 17, 2022, 02:16:42 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 16, 2022, 09:38:35 PM
So despite my lack of insider knowledge, I actually have an answer to the band question. I had some students sit behind me at the game last night (apparently some of the students sit in the chair backs now since there's so many open.) and overheard one of them say that only 9 people showed up for the pep band after winter break so it is effectively disbanded (pun intended). They're working on getting enough together for a couple of games but it will be touch and go.
Pep bands have been an ever present staple of high school and college basketball games across the nation for generations. They are unfailing, irrespective of school size, team record, weather conditions, conflicting priorities, whatever. Band members are the first to arrive and last to leave. They are a part of Americana - except for one national university in northwest Indiana that plays division-1 basketball as a member of an elite mid-major conference full of rich tradition.
We are in desperate need of a complete restart.
I spoke today with a student organizing the pep band, and he says he hopes to have the band at future games plus he is trying to revise the drum line, though he could not offer specifics or a guarantee yet.
This is another example of the points a lot of us are making in terms of lack of leadership in the department. Why is it on the students to self organize the pep band?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 18, 2022, 03:25:56 PM
This is another example of the points a lot of us are making in terms of lack of leadership in the department. Why is it on the students to self organize the pep band?
I guess you aren't aware of how hard the music department has been hit...
Hasn't the pep band always been student or volunteer led? I seem to remember that during my time on campus. Valporun?
Absolutely not on the music department. Should be on the Athletic department.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 18, 2022, 10:34:54 PM
Absolutely not on the music department. Should be on the Athletic department.
If there aren't students to do it, there aren't students to do it. I get frustrated that the campus radio station isn't staffed the majority of the day like it was when I was a student. It's just not a reality. Students have other interests now than they did before. I don't know much about the pep band situation, but I do know that things change and evolve on a college campus, frustrating as that may be.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 18, 2022, 10:34:54 PM
Absolutely not on the music department. Should be on the Athletic department.
Actually the Crusader Pep Band is sponsored by the Athletic Department and Music Department as per the University website.
https://www.valpo.edu/music/ensembles/extra-curricular-ensembles/
If there aren't students to do it that's fine. My point was, is there a person in the Athletic department responsible for this? One of my roommates played in the pep band and they had a director who met regularly with one of the Assistant ADs. They had a small budget for shirts and food for some of the games. What happened to that money? Is it still there and not being used? Or was it actively cut from the budget and we're reaping what we sowed?
Quote from: Pgmado on January 18, 2022, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 18, 2022, 10:34:54 PM
Absolutely not on the music department. Should be on the Athletic department.
If there aren't students to do it, there aren't students to do it. I get frustrated that the campus radio station isn't staffed the majority of the day like it was when I was a student. It's just not a reality. Students have other interests now than they did before. I don't know much about the pep band situation, but I do know that things change and evolve on a college campus, frustrating as that may be.
As a long-time denizen of higher ed, I find it unfortunate that students are taking less advantage of extracurricular activities that make for a more enriching college experience. I'm not necessarily blaming them, either. Part-time jobs necessitated by tuition & expenses, internships and co-ops necessitated by pressures to build vocational credentials, etc., are all playing a role in this. This all steamrolls into dampened enthusiasm for a DI basketball team with a so-so record.
(Sad to hear about WVUR as well. In my day, WVUR, The Torch, and I believe The Beacon were housed in what would become the campus police office. The building was a beehive of student activity and a fun place to hang out.)
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 19, 2022, 05:34:37 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on January 18, 2022, 10:34:54 PM
Absolutely not on the music department. Should be on the Athletic department.
Actually the Crusader Pep Band is sponsored by the Athletic Department and Music Department as per the University website.
https://www.valpo.edu/music/ensembles/extra-curricular-ensembles/
I'm not sure how much sponsoring the Music Department does at this point - the real question is how much is the budget and where does the budget come from? My guess is that the entire budget now comes from the Athletic Department.
The last time there was formal involvement of the Music Department was 1990-91, when there was an adjunct instructor hired to lead the Crusader Band and it still was considered an official minor ensemble of the Music Department. (BTW, is it now the Beacon Band?). The Music Department was openly hostile to the Crusader Band, made scheduling difficult, and took equipment purchased for the Crusader Band and assigned it to the Music Department. Of course, there were few resources for the Music Department back then, and I'm guessing even fewer resources now.
The crowd atmosphere has been a drum (or dead horse) I have beaten since 2010 (apart from the NIT run.)
Has anyone asked whether the type of student we are recruiting have any interest in sports, let alone college basketball? I do think in fairness to a degree attendance is down across NCAA in general even pre-COVID. But it seems really acute at VU.
That's all folks...on this subject. It's all been said. Where is the action?
Just a quick attendance stat:
School, record and attendance from 2019-20 season and so far this season.
Loyola (21-11) (2,904). This yr. 14-2 with (2,897) in attendance.
Belmont (26-7) (2,320). This yr. 14-4 with (1,923) in attendance.
Valpo (19-16) (2,850). This yr. 8-10 with (1,775) in attendance.
*all 3 schools have a similar size arena (+/- 5,000)
David 81, I think you are exactly right, the pressure put on college kids from their parents and companies who will potentially higher them is tremendous. Plus VU is $55k+, students have to work and study and have little time to enjoy extracurriculars, although I am sure you will find Duffy's or Franklin House packed on a Friday night with a good chunk of VU kids.
After Valpo I was an Asst. College Swim Coach and then a head college swim coach from 2013-2018 and kids just aren't interested in sports like they may have once been. It was awesome to see that student section rockin for the girls volleyball NIVC final so it can happen but VU has to put effort in. Attendance is down everywhere, when I was watching the Loyola game last week on CBSSN, gentile Arena looked maybe half full. COVID is also still a huge factor. Win some games, promote the team, incentivize kids to come. It's not magic. I came from a basketball rich small town in Connersville, IN where our student section in high school was rocking with Matt Howard and others playing where as the international and some suburban students now just simply aren't into sports...
NCAA http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2022/Attend.pdf
Divison 1 Per Game
Attendance Average
1976 15,059,892 4,759 — —
1977 16,469,250 5,021 Up 262
1978 17,669,080 5,124 Up 103
1979 18,649,383 5,271 Up 147
1980 19,052,743 5,217 Down 54
1981 19,355,690 5,131 Down 86
1982 19,789,706 5,191 Up 60
1983 20,488,437 5,212 Up 21
1984 20,715,426 5,243 Up 31
1985 21,394,261 5,258 Up 15
1986 21,244,519 5,175 Down 83
1987 21,756,709 5,205 Up 30
1988 22,463,476 5,443 Up 238
1989 23,059,429 5,565 Up 122
1990 23,581,823 5,721 Up 156
1991 23,777,437 5,735 Up 14
1992 23,893,993 5,643 Down 92
1993 23,321,655 5,635 Down 8
1994 23,275,158 5,571 Down 64
1995 23,560,495 5,641 Up 70
1996 23,542,652 5,588 Down 53
1997 23,190,856 5,485 Down 103
1998 23,282,774 5,459 Down 26
1999 23,587,824 5,451 Down 8
2000 24,281,774 5,386 Down 65
2001 24,100,555 5,311 Down 75
2002 24,499,611 5,287 Down 24
2003 25,001,678 5,372 Up 85
2004 25,548,468 5,443 Up 71
2005 25,366,317 5,334 Down 109
2006 25,808,346 5,426 Up 92
2007 27,705,912 5,548 Up 122
2008 28,135,901 5,524 Down 24
2009 27,767,111 5,378 Down 146
2010 27,539,459 5,245 Down 133
2011 27,626,165 5,237 Down 8
2012 27,691,051 5,190 Down 47
2013 27,876,649 5,129 Down 61
2014 27,519,856 5,014 Down 115
2015 27,422,615 4,939 Down 75
2016 27,234,610 4,914 Down 25
2017 26,983,888 4,799 Down 115
2018 26,858,281 4,607 Down 192
2019 27,001,383 4,593 Down 14
2020 25,925,284 4,689 Up 552
2021 N/A —
All Divisions
Attendance
Per
Attendance Game
1977 23,324,040 2,710 — —
1978 23,590,952 2,678 Down 32
1979 24,482,516 2,757 Up 79
1980 24,861,722 2,765 Up 8
1981 25,159,358 2,737 Down 28
1982 25,416,017 2,727 Down 10
1983 26,122,785 2,706 Down 21
1984 26,271,613 2,728 Up 22
1985 26,584,426 2,712 Down 16
1986 26,368,815 2,654 Down 58
1987 26,797,644 2,698 Up 44
1988 27,452,948 2,777 Up 79
1989 28,270,260 2,814 Up 37
1990 28,740,819 2,860 Up 46
1991 29,249,583 2,796 Down 64
1992 29,378,161 2,747 Down 49
1993 28,527,348 2,703 Down 44
1994 28,390,491 2,604 Down 99
1995 28,548,158 2,581 Down 23
1996 28,225,352 2,563 Down 18
1997 27,738,284 2,508 Down 55
1998 28,031,879 2,445 Down 63
1999 28,505,428 2,401 Down 44
2000 29,024,876 2,410 Up 9
2001 28,949,093 2,392 Down 18
2002 29,395,240 2,373 Down 19
2003 30,124,304 2,339 Down 34
2004 30,760,510 2,355 Up 16
2005 30,568,645 2,327 Down 28
2006 30,939,715 2,351 Up 24
2007 32,835,863 2,449 Up 98
2008 33,396,316 2,393 Down 56
2009 33,111,020 2,365 Down 28
2010 32,820,701 2,302 Down 63
2011 32,631,817 2,301 Down 1
2012 32,781,399 2,292 Down 9
2013 32,869,227 2,278 Down 14
2014 32,510,167 2,240 Down 38
2015 32,510,647 2,195 Down 45
2016 32,382,283 2,168 Down 27
2017 31,859,477 2,107 Down 61
2018 31,277,480 2,021 Down 86
2019 31,401,424 2,036 Up 15
2020 30,267,725 2,002 Down 34
2021 N/A — —
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on January 19, 2022, 01:17:02 PM
David 81, I think you are exactly right, the pressure put on college kids from their parents and companies who will potentially higher them is tremendous. Plus VU is $55k+, students have to work and study and have little time to enjoy extracurriculars, although I am sure you will find Duffy's or Franklin House packed on a Friday night with a good chunk of VU kids.
After Valpo I was an Asst. College Swim Coach and then a head college swim coach from 2013-2018 and kids just aren't interested in sports like they may have once been. It was awesome to see that student section rockin for the girls volleyball NIVC final so it can happen but VU has to put effort in. Attendance is down everywhere, when I was watching the Loyola game last week on CBSSN, gentile Arena looked maybe half full. COVID is also still a huge factor. Win some games, promote the team, incentivize kids to come. It's not magic. I came from a basketball rich small town in Connersville, IN where our student section in high school was rocking with Matt Howard and others playing where as the international and some suburban students now just simply aren't into sports...
Not at some Indiana Universities
https://twitter.com/BoilerBall/status/1495580769925881859