Quote from: valpotx on April 03, 2022, 01:58:09 PM
Knocking on wood, as I type this, but if TK plays another year, and Kobe is granted another season, I think that we are in good position, all things considered. With limited video examples, I think that Nick Edwards is a good replacement for Sheldon leaving, and if Connor can return to his FR form, the loss of Keyondre/Trey is minimized. We would need someone to step up to replace what Kevion brought, however.
Rather than continuing in the "Transfers" thread, valpotx has opened the door to looking toward next fall.
Nick Edwards to replace Sheldon: we move from a "me first" pseudo guard who can rebound and hit big shots as well as make bad decisions, to a pass-first true point guard whose weaknesses are yet to be discovered. Preston has shown that he can be a competent sub, and Darius may have a higher up-side than Preston over time.
Will Joe or Emil develop enough to allow TK to take a breather?
When are we expecting to hear about Kobe? Will Cam be trusted to sub for him?
It will be interesting to hear what sort of players take the last two slots. I hope that each is 6'6" or taller.
I didn't realize Kobe needed to be granted another season. I thought it was already confirmed he had eligibility this year, but I may have just assumed that.
I feel ok about 4 players on our team. The rest are question marks in my mind.
King, Krikke, Kithier (assuming healthy), Edwards - A decent starting four by all accounts. King needs to be more of the go to guy that can take over a game, which will open up the rest.
Beyond that, I see question marks.
Darius DeAveiro - Showed he can fill in well, but can he take the next step
Preston Ruedinger - A good backup point, good as a sub and minutes guy
Cam Palesse - No idea, but I am hopeful he's good enough to provide serious minutes
Emil Freese-Vilien/Joe Hedstrom - I'm not expecting much but would be happy for a surprise
Connor Barrett - If he can return to Freshman form, where he played better than Sheldon for most of the year, he could play a big role. But who knows.
Maximus Nelson - Would be huge if he can play right away. His skill set, size and position are much needed.
I'm sure we will be hitting the transfer market hard with the last two spots open. We did well last year, and I am confident we will do well again this year.
Right now to me our lineup is looking like:
1. Edwards
2. ?
3. Kobe
4. Ben
5. Thomas
Bench
Preston/Darius
Green
Connor Barrett
Palesse
Hedstrom
Who starts at the 2. Surely not Connor, he's a 3 and barely played this year. Preston and Darius play point. Palesse isn't going to jump into the starting lineup. But at the same time, who is going to be our backup center. If it's Joe, we are in big trouble. I think starting shooting guard and bench center are two gaping holes, and do we even have 1 scholarship left ?
We have one scholarship left. and I believe Kobe is still not confirmed as a sure thing right? so that may be another whole.
We have Emil as back up center as well I believe.
Right now the answer to who starts at the 2 would be Green.
The backup center issue? It is ugly.
Quote from: vok22 on April 12, 2022, 11:43:53 AM
Right now to me our lineup is looking like:
1. Edwards
2. ?
3. Kobe
4. Ben
5. Thomas
Bench
Preston/Darius
Green
Connor Barrett
Palesse
Hedstrom
Who starts at the 2. Surely not Connor, he's a 3 and barely played this year. Preston and Darius play point. Palesse isn't going to jump into the starting lineup. But at the same time, who is going to be our backup center. If it's Joe, we are in big trouble. I think starting shooting guard and bench center are two gaping holes, and do we even have 1 scholarship left ?
I think the answer at the 2 is Kobe. Green or Barrett can play the 3. The backup 5 is the same as last year. Ben plays the 5 when Thomas isn't in the game. I doubt we see them both on the court together unless we find another big out there. I would assume that is the number one goal. I think we have two slots left or three if Kobe is gone but one is no doubt going to Preston.
Wondering whether closer students of this team (me: watch/listen to games when possible, follow this and Paul Oren's boards) think this team is capable of a winning record and possibly a lower-level tourney invite. Unless, say, King or Krikke take big steps up, I don't see a genuine star akin to Bryce, Broekhoff, Peters, JFL, et al., who can take the team beyond OK. Am I underestimating the talent on this roster?
Quote from: David81 on April 16, 2022, 08:48:43 AM
Wondering whether closer students of this team (me: watch/listen to games when possible, follow this and Paul Oren's boards) think this team is capable of a winning record and possibly a lower-level tourney invite. Unless, say, King or Krikke take big steps up, I don't see a genuine star akin to Bryce, Broekhoff, Peters, JFL, et al., who can take the team beyond OK. Am I underestimating the talent on this roster?
No, you are not.
I hope for a better season and some decent post tournament (not CBI or CIT). If things go sour, I hope Padilla and the suitors are watching.
Adding Division II transfers is great and all, but it doesn't move the needle against programs like UNI, Bradley, Loyola, etc. This group still has a long way to go, and I don't have a ton of reason to be optimistic that next year will be much better than this was
The only reason for optimism is that the rest of the league should be much worse than last year, so it might be easier to pick up a few more in league wins.
Quote from: vok22 on April 19, 2022, 10:24:19 AM
The only reason for optimism is that the rest of the league should be much worse than last year, so it might be easier to pick up a few more in league wins.
::) That doesn't really get my adrenalin pumping.
Quote from: justducky on April 19, 2022, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: vok22 on April 19, 2022, 10:24:19 AM
The only reason for optimism is that the rest of the league should be much worse than last year, so it might be easier to pick up a few more in league wins.
::) That doesn't really get my adrenalin pumping.
And probably not true, at least at the top of the conference. Drake, UNI, Missouri State and Belmont will be loaded.
Vijay Blackmon has been hired as the men's basketball strength coach. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there has been a strength coach dedicated just to men's basketball in recent seasons. This is a behind-the-scenes investment that the coaches hoped for.
It will be interesting to see this hire has any impact on the number of injuries over the course of the season.
Anyone hearing Thomas has not recovered and a there is a high possibility he's done playing.
Quote from: Chairback on June 01, 2022, 11:53:18 AM
Anyone hearing Thomas has not recovered and a there is a high possibility he's done playing.
Thomas "he's just not Kith, he's" Kithier
I certainly hope he is like the Star Wars film "Revenge of the Kith"
Quote from: Chairback on June 01, 2022, 11:53:18 AM
Anyone hearing Thomas has not recovered and a there is a high possibility he's done playing.
Heard a rumor, but if true, wouldn't the staff be after a replacement? Getting kinda late I would think.
Quote from: vu72 on June 01, 2022, 01:13:26 PMQuote from: Chairback on June 01, 2022, 11:53:18 AMAnyone hearing Thomas has not recovered and a there is a high possibility he's done playing.
Heard a rumor, but if true, wouldn't the staff be after a replacement? Getting kinda late I would think.
Jerome Palm / Maximus Nelson
Hope its not true, but those two on roster do provide some relief already.
I heard this a while ago and I do think it is true. Not sure why there hasn't been anything formal. I also believe he is staying on scholarship to help the team but I do not think he will see the floor. Don't ask me about the logic in that. That is just what I heard.
Quote from: humbleopinion on June 01, 2022, 05:40:43 AM
Vijay Blackmon has been hired as the men's basketball strength coach. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there has been a strength coach dedicated just to men's basketball in recent seasons. This is a behind-the-scenes investment that the coaches hoped for.
It will be interesting to see this hire has any impact on the number of injuries over the course of the season.
This is an interesting move. Love that he played under one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in college basketball with Clif Marshall. Marshall is famous for some of the impressive player body transformations within the Hoosier program. I also like that Vijay is younger and can more easily relate to the players and the modern basketball training cycle (AAU, high school, and the transition to college).
So we still have some big question marks. Can Thomas play? Is Kobe eligible? With the addition of Max and Jerome, the loss of Thomas is less of an impact, but you can't replace his basketball smarts and team quarterbacking skill very easily. Kobe will be the bigger loss as he has that Big Ten body and scoring ability--again, very hard to replace. That's two five year (six?) guys and a lot of experience.
As is usually the case, much will depend on skills gained in the off season. The picture on the Valpo athletic site of guys training, shows several guys staying around campus and that is good. Not sure of all the players pictured but I recognize Preston, Joe, Quinton, Nick, Connor(?) and Darius.
Luke told me that he expected that everyone except a player playing for a national team to be on campus in June.
Cool, everyone but Ben
Quote from: VUSupport on June 16, 2022, 08:27:18 AM
Cool, everyone but Ben
Or perhaps Jerome Palm from the Netherlands or even Emil from Denmark
I'm pretty sure it was Jerome.
Quote from: humbleopinion on June 16, 2022, 05:03:44 AMLuke told me that he expected that everyone except a player playing for a national team to be on campus in June.
He didn't happen to mention who "everyone" encompasses did he?
It certainly included Kobe (I asked), and, given the mention of Jerome, it clearly indicated that every other team member would be on campus. It never occurred to me to ask specifically about Kithier's availability.
If Kobe is able to play, I like our chances this season, given everything else that has happened in our conference.
Here's hoping the 2022-23 season is Lottich's last season as Valpo's Head Coach... he's proven he's not the guy. Hope Small (AD) will be able to see it first hand next season. Valpo needs a fresh start.
This is the most pessimistic I have ever been about a Valpo Basketball Team during the offseason. There is definitely talent on this roster but I don't trust the Coach to bring the Team together to mold a good team.
The countdown is running on Lottich's tenure.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 20, 2022, 12:36:24 AM
Here's hoping the 2022-23 season is Lottich's last season as Valpo's Head Coach... he's proven he's not the guy. Hope Small (AD) will be able to see it first hand next season. Valpo needs a fresh start.
This is the most pessimistic I have ever been about a Valpo Basketball Team during the offseason. There is definitely talent on this roster but I don't trust the Coach to bring the Team together to mold a good team.
The countdown is running on Lottich's tenure.
I agree with you but it is up to Small, the AD, to evaluate quickly and talk the administrators and board members into paying off Lottich if Small agrees that Lottich must go after next season.
Regardless of how we do, I think the Lottich has lost the respect of many of the fans. I don't think there is anything he could do to gain my respect. I didn't like what I saw on the floor from and Xs and Os standpoint. I saw little if any effective strategy. He is a guy who relied on his talent, and expects everyone else to do the same. A good coach uses the talent on and off the floor in a way to give their team an advantage. I just don't see Lottich has having the vision.
Has nobody been to the ARC lately? The team is suppose to be back on campus. The Women's team has posted pictures of team get togethers and practices but crickets from the Men's side!
The men are definitely back. They had their basketball camp a week ago and there have been some videos shared on instagram of some gym sessions going on
Crickets? Yes, because few people care.
Do you mean the ARC that has no air conditioning for the 90 degree heat? Of course, they would be in Hilltop Gym this time of year.
Valpo really needs bucks and a T.Boone Pickens type donor.
BIG opportunity to see the team in action tomorrow night at 5, in an open-to-the-public scrimmage against THE CRU! Wow! I sure wish I could find a plane to Valpo on short notice! PLEASE, somebody go and give us a report!
Quote from: vu72 on July 13, 2022, 08:38:37 AM
BIG opportunity to see the team in action tomorrow night at 5, in an open-to-the-public scrimmage against THE CRU! Wow! I sure wish I could find a plane to Valpo on short notice! PLEASE, somebody go and give us a report!
Early invitations to this scrimmage may have been premature. Not sure if it's actually open to the public or not.
THE "SCRIMMAGE" IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
But cmon. Im in valpo and actually have a free open Thurs!
Expect the Valley to release the 2022-23 conference 20 game schedule mid September!
https://twitter.com/NealBradley/status/1547588700124483585
Just listened to Matt Lottich on the Valley's Coaches press briefing. Some VERY good news came out of his comments. Here's some:
1. The new conditioning coach is making a big difference. Mat acknowledged the conditioning/injury problems of the past. Hopefully we can get a full season out of our starters.
2. Preston is getting the scholarship and is becoming a team leader.
3. Perhaps the biggest news is the Kithier has lost some weight and previous reports of him being done are not accurate! Having Thomas available will make a giant difference with another talented big available.
4. Maximus can really shoot it! He is a freshman and needs a lot of work on defense but could be that guy like Connor who can come in a launch 3's kinda like the freshman two years ago.
5. Kobe has lost some weight and most importantly IS BACK! That will add another very experienced guy with a BIG body!
6. Perhaps Quinton can replace the scoring of Sheldon. He shot it at 40% for his D2 career and is 2" taller than Sheldon
7. Nick Edwards is proving to be the true pass first point guard we need. Darius has improved his shooting and Jerome Palm is still not on campus but is doing "great things" playing overseas.
That's about it.
I know that now is the time for optimistic "puff pieces" but all of this is REALLY encouraging. Dare we have legitimate reason to hope in what appears to be a tough but wide open MVC? I think we might...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 14, 2022, 03:17:26 PM
I know that now is the time for optimistic "puff pieces" but all of this is REALLY encouraging. Dare we have legitimate reason to hope in what appears to be a tough but wide open MVC? I think we might...
Don't fall in the trap. There is plenty of time for optimism once the team actually does perform well within the conference.
Is our roster finalized for the up-coming season?
Quote from: valpo64 on July 18, 2022, 04:06:11 PM
Is our roster finalized for the up-coming season?
Yes, although it isn't updated on the athletic site yet.
Roster is now on the website!
[tweet]1557832739600179200[/tweet]
Well I guess the news about Thomas was right many months ago. Very sad. With him we really could have been very solid and may still be. Very glad we have Palm and Maximus. What does this say about our training? Two guys who have suffered career ending injuries in one season...
Bad luck??
I think they have a new S&C coach ... someone correct me if i am wrong.
Now that we have a roster I will start to think about the team potential. Unknowns are everywhere. What can Matt do with this bunch?
Last year all of us were far too optimistic. Might this season play out just the opposite?
Quote from: justducky on August 12, 2022, 11:09:31 AMLast year all of us were far too optimistic. Might this season play out just the opposite?
Based on the final result, but not on the "potential". Who among us saw Ben missing the first four games, or Thomas missing half the season or Trevor being done half way through and making us rely on freshman point guards, or Keyondre being hurt and missing the season? This coming season will be filled with 'potential"! The question is can they stay healthy and can Matt get them together.
Not having Kithier is a big blow!. If healthy...14 pts 8 rbs and an excellent position (underrated) defender. Lot of production lost. However, the other argument could be a style preference. Kith was a back to the basket player playing at a slower pace. With him out, does that mean we play at a faster pace, more transition opportunities. We don't have a proven big returning that can rebound and is capable of scoring double digits on most nights. If Valley teams are smart they will force the ball out of Krikke's hand's and dare us to make shots. I'm sorry..... we have a lot pieces coming in, but we won't know anything until the first week of January. While I am at it, Krikke has been a no show in the rebounding department and a liability at times on defense. Will be curious to see if he takes another step forward this year.
Quote from: AB on August 12, 2022, 01:08:26 PM
Not having Kithier is a big blow!. If healthy...14 pts 8 rbs and an excellent position (underrated) defender. Lot of production lost. However, the other argument could be a style preference. Kith was a back to the basket player playing at a slower pace. With him out, does that mean we play at a faster pace, more transition opportunities. We don't have a proven big returning that can rebound and is capable of scoring double digits on most nights. If Valley teams are smart they will force the ball out of Krikke's hand's and dare us to make shots. I'm sorry..... we have a lot pieces coming in, but we won't know anything until the first week of January. While I am at it, Krikke has been a no show in the rebounding department and a liability at times on defense. Will be curious to see if he takes another step forward this year.
I agree it is a big loss but...have you seen tape on Jerome Palm? 6'10" 7' wingspan. Here ya go! This is from TWO years ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziOhqjJ7pj0
Quote from: 1LoneBeacon on August 12, 2022, 08:26:08 AM
Bad luck??
I think they have a new S&C coach ... someone correct me if i am wrong.
My understanding is that there is now a S&C coach hired assigned exclusively to men's basketball
QuoteTwo guys who have suffered career ending injuries in one season...
I would be more concerned if it were two freshmen versus two B1G transfers. Didn't they have prior injury history before Valpo? Tough break either way.
Tough break on TK, as that dude was solid. I had a lot of respect for his and Trevor's games, but glad that they got to play 1/2 a season more before hanging it up.
Valpo just announced A new player for the 2022-23 season. Ibra Bayu is a 6'8 Forward from the Netherlands. A good friend to Jerome Palm. Played HS ball in Pennsylvania. Temple and Nebraska had offered him. Has had dome health issues the past year.
Quote from: RS on August 15, 2022, 12:50:13 PM
Valpo just announced A new player for the 2022-23 season. Ibra Bayu is a 6'8 Forward from the Netherlands. A good friend to Jerome Palm. Played HS ball in Pennsylvania. Temple and Nebraska had offered him. Has had dome health issues the past year.
Two broken ankles last year...ouch!!!
A true freshman with a 7' wing span and who can defend! Nebraska didn't offer him because he was a project. Once again, our team makeup will be entirely different than last year. More athletic and, hopefully, better on defense.
Ranked a 3 star and #42 small forward by 247:
https://247sports.com/Article/La-Salle-Nebraska-Temple-Ibrahima-Bayu-journey-from-Netherlands-to-United-States-153363900/
Quote from: vu72 on August 15, 2022, 01:27:52 PM
A true freshman with a 7' wing span and who can defend! Nebraska didn't offer him because he was a project. Once again, our team makeup will be entirely different than last year. More athletic and, hopefully, better on defense.
Ranked a 3 star and #42 small forward by 247:
https://247sports.com/Article/La-Salle-Nebraska-Temple-Ibrahima-Bayu-journey-from-Netherlands-to-United-States-153363900/ (https://247sports.com/Article/La-Salle-Nebraska-Temple-Ibrahima-Bayu-journey-from-Netherlands-to-United-States-153363900/)
For whatever it is worth: that article and the rankings are from two years ago before he had his injuries. The Temple and Nebraska interest also happened in August of 2020. The current 247 sports ranking of 2022 recruits lists 348 players and Bayu does not appear among them, nor does he appear on their Small Forward rankings. Verbal Commits lists him with just a 2-star rating and no scholarship interest since 2020.
Got us picked 9th, right behind a team that basically had their entire team transfer. Whatever. Expect a better outcome.
https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2022-23/21583/krikke-king-earn-preseason-all-conference-honors-mvc-releases-preseason-poll/
If Valpo finishes 9th or lower the unemployment in Porter County will increase by at least 1 :whiteflag:
So we finally have a team photo and two guys are missing. The women's team picture had one person missing. What's up with that?? Weird.
https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/
Probably nothing more than either they had class or were sick at the time of the photo and will probably at least do an individual make up one later
During the eleven years I've been on this board it is very clear to me that enthusiasm for the men's basketball team is at an all time low. Pre-season reviews are starting to come out, first game is in two days and...crickets.
So I will try to gen some thoughts here by given my wild guess on how the team might perform as well as a preseason starting lineup. Obviously, trying to get anything out of Matt, during his weekly interview with Brandon, is not going to happen.
So here goes: I think the team has the pieces to be a top half team, maybe higher. Starting at point guard, last year we started with a very experienced guy in Trevor Anderson, but by January 30 he was done and hadn't been very effective prior due to his injuries. Thus, we ended the season with a walk-on freshman starting backed up by another freshman. This year we again start off with a veteran point guard--who is much quicker than Trevor was, and the backups are not freshman any longer. Overall, better than last year.
At the 2 we again have Kobe King, who last year had to sit out the first nine games after not playing for a couple of years. The rust showed. this year's version is 15 lbs lighter and very familiar with Matt's offense. Again, better this year then last.
At the three, Quiton Green will likely get the nod. From what I've seem (obviously old film) he appears to be a two inch taller version of Sheldon Edwards. Matt has said that Green shoots the 3 at near a 40% clip. Last year we had Kevion Tailor who shot the 3 at 38.3%. This might have to go to last year's team.
At the 4 we again have Ben Krikke here, who started last year off with a sprained ankle and missed the first couple of games. Matt says he is in better shape and hopefully gain ed expertise in shooting the 3 over the off season. Remember, Ben had to play a lot of 5 last season so if he can stay at the 4 he should be a better player. Advantage: This year's team.
At the 5 Matt say we have a "three headed monster" We'll see. I'm really interested in seeing how well Jerome Palm performed. At 6'10" and a 7 foot wingspan, he, hopefully, will give a rim protector we haven't had in a long time. With the return of a healthy Emil and another year's experience in Joe, we should have the depth to keep Ben from having to play the 5. Last year's final game zero backup minutes from these two. Thomas was a great player but wasn't the best rebounder and had to play through a lot of pain. I'd call this team a little better at the 5.
As for depth, this is where this year's team has a sizable advantage. Last year we basically had two key reserves: Eron Gordon, who averaged 3.2 ppg and Trey Woodyard, who averaged 1.2 ppg. Connor Barrett, after starting a bunch of games the year before, disappeared, playing is only 16 of 32 games, scoring at 2.1 ppg. Presumable Connor will return to form. Matt seems to think that Cam has made great strides forward and we add two 6'8" guys in Max Nelson (who apparently is a great 3 shooter (maybe like Jacob O??) and Ibra Bayu, a guy who has had nothing but a bunch of medical issues, but if healthy could be a game changer with his athleticism--at one point he did hold an offer from Nebraska.
So there you have it! I'll go with Ben, Kobe, Green, Jerome and Preston to start on Saturday. GO BEACONS!! Now I need to get some stuff done in my office!
I have been following along but haven't posted in a while, mainly because I don't think there is much to be excited about until proven otherwise. Hopefully stringing some wins together will bring some people back. Conversely to last year, I am going into this season with low expectations. Not because I think our potential is low, only because I am waiting for this coaching staff to show some ability. Here are my thoughts:
Starting Lineup
Nick Edwards
Kobe King
Quinton Green
Ben Krikke
Jerome Palm
How I think it will go: I really think the keys to this season are 1) Matt needs to be better in game coach and 2) we need to stay healthy. I think if we are healthy last year, we win close to 20 games. No reason this year should be any different.
1 Nick Edwards looks solid. Good passer, can knock down shots, quick, but not so small he is toyed with on defense like Sackey was. Is he gonna be an all conference player? No, but I think he'll be better than our PG production was last year given the injuries and inexperience that plagued us. Preston and Darius also held their own as freshmen, rarely turning the ball over. I'm not expecting an astronomical leap for either of them, but I expect they can be an annoyance to opponents off the bench. They already were last year at times.
2) Kobe King. People were dissapointed with him last season, and I guess I can't blame them, but I still think he was good. Not "drag this program out of this hole by himself" good, but has All Conference Team caliber ability. He gives off Patrick Williams vibes with his non-aggressiveness sometimes, but he was also out a bit last year and now has some time at Valpo under his belt. I think we will be better at the 2 than most of our opponents.
3) Quinton Green. Not really sure what to expect here. Kevion Taylor was really good at this spot last year, so I can't expect him to live up to those standards, but I don't think he'll be that much less reliable. Has some experienced. Will have some growing pains coming to the D1 level, but is athletic and can shoot the ball. Those will transfer with him.
4) Ben Krikke. We know what we are getting here for the most part. He is REALLY GOOD at the 4. Hopefully he can stay there for most of the game. That would really help us out.
5) Jerome Palm. This is shaky. I would feel very confident having Kithier starting and Palm off the bench, but obviosuly not having Kithier anymore makes that impossible. That would really alleviate the need for Krikke to have to play any 5 at all. If Joe or Emil can step up, that would be nice, but I don't have any hope in that happening. Joe looked completely lost last year and Emil has played about 5 minutes in his 3 year career. I feel like Palm is still pretty raw, but if he is able to be consistent, I think his skill set is more in tune with modern day basketball than Kithier, and therefore may be a positive to us. Has a better build for interior defense and rebounding, which is something we have been missing ever since Fernandez left.
Coaching: I mentioned that Matt needs to be a better in game coach. While I no longer hold any hope he is the long term answer, I do think there is reason to believe he could have a better time this year. 1) with a trainer specifically for basketball now, maybe we will have less injuries and 2) there was significantly less turnover this offseason on the team which leads me to believe not only will this team mesh better than his previous rosters, but also that there is more buy in from these players.
Overall Predictions:
I think if we are consistently healthy, we finish above .500 overall and avoid Thursday (or whatever night it is now post expansion). The valley is still deep and road games will be tough no matter the opponent. I think we could surprise ourselves but I've learned my lesson expecting that.
I'll add some more thoughts later I just typed this on my phone on the bus.
yeah. Win games. That solves fan apathy. Only Cub fans show up win or loose
Was there a "secret" scrimmage this year? Has anyone heard anything? Or is this not done anymore?
Quote from: VALPO LI on October 28, 2022, 06:35:17 PM
Was there a "secret" scrimmage this year? Has anyone heard anything? Or is this not done anymore?
No secret scrimmage this year. The game today is an exhibition so basically a scrimmage.
But the school is able to sell tickets and concessions for exhibitions. Secret scrimmages are closed.
Quote from: vu72 on October 29, 2022, 08:01:24 AM
Quote from: VALPO LI on October 28, 2022, 06:35:17 PM
Was there a "secret" scrimmage this year? Has anyone heard anything? Or is this not done anymore?
No secret scrimmage this year. The game today is an exhibition so basically a scrimmage.
Teams are allowed two exhibition games or scrimmages. Why would Valpo only play one exhibition and have no scrimmage? Seems like a missed opportunity to prepare the team with the regular season opener a week away.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 29, 2022, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: vu72 on October 29, 2022, 08:01:24 AM
Quote from: VALPO LI on October 28, 2022, 06:35:17 PM
Was there a "secret" scrimmage this year? Has anyone heard anything? Or is this not done anymore?
No secret scrimmage this year. The game today is an exhibition so basically a scrimmage.
Teams are allowed two exhibition games or scrimmages. Why would Valpo only play one exhibition and have no scrimmage? Seems like a missed opportunity to prepare the team with the regular season opener a week away.
Valparaiso did have a secret scrimmage this year. Just not in the manor in which it normally does. They got a lot of good out of it. This one was a bit more secret than the normal "secret" scrimmages.
Does anybody that was at the game have any comments on it? It doesn't really inspire much confidence in me the Emil started. We are doomed if he is our best option at center. 3 fouls in 11 minutes sounds about right.
So, the Secret Scrimmage really was a secret this year.
Quess we're going to have to get better spies for next year. ;D ;D
Quote from: vok22 on October 29, 2022, 03:32:30 PM
Does anybody that was at the game have any comments on it? It doesn't really inspire much confidence in me the Emil started. We are doomed if he is our best option at center. 3 fouls in 11 minutes sounds about right.
I thought you'd never ask.
https://www.thevictorybell.com/p/growing-pains
Should we be concerned that we barely beat a D2 team on our home floor? I mean at least we won this time so there's that. Not sure I'm feeling terribly confident going into the opener against a solid Toledo team. It would be great to rattle off a few wins to start the year but I can't shake the feeling that this is just going to be another year just like the others in the Lottich era in the MVC. Maddening inconsistency. Some brilliant moments. A lot of head-scratching moments and a trip to the Thursday game. Prove me wrong Beacons. I want to believe.
Toledo is as good as any MVC squad at this point. There's no particular reason there should be a ton of hope in Valpo winning that game which goes beyond any team can beat any other team at some point. I don't see where this particular exhibition game would play into thoughts on the Toledo game at all.
I actually liked what Emil presented in his early season limited action last season, and look forward to what he can do this season, if he is able to stay healthy enough to play. I remember a few strong post moves at the time, which had surprised me.
Sure it would have been nice to blow them out of the gym but...we played all 11 guys who dressed and in the regular season Matt will probably go with maybe 8. As a result it was hard to get into a flow. Having said that, the statistics look very solid. 17 assists and only 7 turnovers. Five guys hitting threes etc. As for the 5 spot, it was a little difficult to get an impression from the kids doing the WVUR broadcast, but if you add up the three guys you end up with 13 points, 11 rebounds and only 2 turnovers. And Ben! Can't wait to see what he does this season.
Quote from: vu72 on October 26, 2022, 08:46:18 AMSo we finally have a team photo and two guys are missing. The women's team picture had one person missing. What's up with that?? Weird. https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/ (https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/)
Likely because of injuries, Barrett has a knee injury and Bayu a hernia. Sounds like both will miss significant time.
Quote from: Pgmado on October 29, 2022, 07:44:28 PM
Quote from: vok22 on October 29, 2022, 03:32:30 PM
Does anybody that was at the game have any comments on it? It doesn't really inspire much confidence in me the Emil started. We are doomed if he is our best option at center. 3 fouls in 11 minutes sounds about right.
I thought you'd never ask.
https://www.thevictorybell.com/p/growing-pains
Here's my take:
Ben: I agree with Paul that it's great to see him at the 4. His increased confidence shooting the 3 will pay dividends.
Kobe: I felt the same way that I did last year -- he's good, and when he gets back into form he'll be tough to stop. His shots seemed to be falling short last night, but he scored the big hoop at the end.
Centers: It was interesting to see Jerome in the game when Cedarville had closed the score. I think that he has a lot of upside. Both Joe and Emil seemed more comfortable out there than last year, but they were not challenged by a Div 1 center.
Nick Edwards: He seems to be really quick. Like Kobe, some of his shots fell short -- maybe some nerves in his first game at Valpo.
Quinton Green: He sunk a couple 3s, and generally looked pretty good out on the floor. I expect he will contribute nicely.
Max: He seemed competent at the four for his level of experience. If he is the 3-point threat as advertised, we can look forward to a change of pace when he subs for Ben.
Preston and Darius: I didn't see enough of them to determine if there has been much change since last season
Cam: It was good to see him on the floor -- see Paul's comments
Ibra and Conner: I hope we see them in uniform and contributing in the future
Ruedinger and Daverio played 35 minutes between them and took 3 shots. Ruedinger played 21 himself and took 2 shots and had one assist. This happened last year as well with guys on the court who seem to out there simply to move the ball from time which I find inefficient.
Also looks like the 2nd unit let the opponent back in the game after building an 18 point lead which was cut in half within about 90 secs led by Emil.
Quote from: humbleopinion on October 30, 2022, 09:41:30 AMPreston and Darius: I didn't see enough of them to determine if there has been much change since last season
Quote from: JD24 on October 30, 2022, 01:36:41 PMRuedinger and Daverio played 35 minutes between them and took 3 shots. Ruedinger played 21 himself and took 2 shots and had one assist. This happened last year as well with guys on the court who seem to out there simply to move the ball from time which I find inefficient.
I am pretty confident that their offensive contributions will broaden soon. Just how soon is soon will soon be sorted out. ;)
Quote from: humbleopinion on October 30, 2022, 09:41:30 AMBen: I agree with Paul that it's great to see him at the 4. His increased confidence shooting the 3 will pay dividends.
3 of 6 from 3 is a great start and just a bit better than the 20% he shot last season!
Quote from: justducky on October 30, 2022, 03:02:22 PMQuote from: JD24 on October 30, 2022, 01:36:41 PMRuedinger and Daverio played 35 minutes between them and took 3 shots. Ruedinger played 21 himself and took 2 shots and had one assist. This happened last year as well with guys on the court who seem to out there simply to move the ball from time which I find inefficient.
I am pretty confident that their offensive contributions will broaden soon. Just how soon is soon will soon be sorted out. ;)
Considering it happened last year as well, I'm not sure where the confidence is coming from but hopefully you are correct.
The Yellow Jackets buzzed the lead down to two in the final minute, but Kobe King (La Crosse, Wis. / La Crosse Central [Wisconsin]) made key plays on both ends by finishing a layup and then swiping a steal. However, Valpo missed the front end of a one-and-one, then the Beacons fouled a Cedarville three-point shooter on the other end. Cedarville made two of the three free throws to reduce the lead to two at 81-79 with 12 seconds left.
Valpo turned it over, and the Yellow Jackets had the ball with a chance to tie or take the lead. Valpo got a stop in the closing seconds, then King went to the free throw line and hit a pair to seal the victory.
This recap from the athletics website is giving my flashbacks from last year.
In the final seconds, with a chance to close it out: Missed free throw, then foul a three point shooter, then turn it over. We blew games late like that last year. Hopefully this is a reminder to the team and not a trend. Better teams than Cedarville may have finished the job.
The good news is that Valpo basketball is back.
The bad news is Valpo basketball is back
The season is going to be rough. But at least Todd is still calling the games. So I'll be tuning in.
Looking to offload a bunch of Valpo gear for free rather than throw it away. Former VU employee with polos, sweaters, pullovers, coats, and some rain gear that are all size XL. Don't believe I have the ability to post pictures to the board yet, but can send them if you're interested.
Quote from: Generic on November 08, 2022, 05:54:27 PM
Looking to offload a bunch of Valpo gear for free rather than throw it away. Former VU employee with polos, sweaters, pullovers, coats, and some rain gear that are all size XL. Don't believe I have the ability to post pictures to the board yet, but can send them if you're interested.
Check your DM
Ok. I'm befuddled.
This is post from 30,000 feet cuz it is not a reentry to the forum for me — just as neutral an observation as I can muster before I go back to lurking.
Since I bailed on the forum (close now to two years), because of my disgust at the cut of MSO and MT — two solid but purposefully underfunded programs that epitomized the great strengths, values and ethos of this university, I have watched this vibrant, energetic, and fun fan board practically disintegrate. Case in point: there are zero posts today despite FB, MBB, WBB going into their next games and the fact that MG (already a very competitive player at the MVC level) signed two great recruits with GPAs over 3.98 and golf credentials that blow your socks off. This would not have been the case two years ago. This forum should be bouncing about now.
I know why I left, and I am pretty sure I understand why WH backed off for other reasons. But in my case it was not about the forum. I chose to leave the forum in response to an action by the university (I also suspended any gifts, if that is what you might be wondering and I told MLB that). But that's just me. It was purely personal.
But what's happened to those of you who are still active? Have you stopped caring?
FWIW, I still care - that's why I lurk, but I choose to remain silent until Padilla and Small demonstrate that there is substance behind their words.
Lamaste/Peace/Out
VULB#62 - There are quite a few posts on the first game against Toledo, though (of course) lots of concerns due to how poorly the team played. Lots of posts on the football program, which has been competitive. There were some posted on women's volleyball, but they declined as performance declined during conference play. There have been some posts on Men's Golf - but it is generally the offseason for golf (as I have said before, Coach Gring has done an amazing job!). Plus a lot of posts on various issues with Valpo's strategy.
I care...quite a bit.
Random college basketball finals from this year>Maine just beat Boston College at BC as 20.5 point underdogs and one of the worst teams in the country the last few years. Also Colorado lost at Grambling then went to #11 Tennessee and won.
Too bad we didn't schedule Louisville this year. They are now 0-3, with 3 losses to mid majors at home. Bellarmine, Wright State, and Appalachian State have all gone into the KFC Yum center and won by exactly 1 point each.
Valpo really needs to improve their non conference schedule, it is as exciting as a ham sandwich on Wonder bread without the cheese and mustard. c'mon Valpo, surely you can do better than this!
Didn't want to start a whole new thread for this but I think it is very good news for the basketball atmosphere. Valpo is now offering to pay students for playing in the pep band. $500 for the season. Hope it works.
Finally!!!
This is a good "start" in the right direction. Hopefully the $500 turns into offering scholarships, which turns into more competition to get out and play, which turns into a better sounding atmosphere at home games. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VALPO LI on November 16, 2022, 09:03:46 AM
Finally!!!
This is a good "start" in the right direction. Hopefully the $500 turns into offering scholarships, which turns into more competition to get out and play, which turns into a better sounding atmosphere at home games. [emoji106]
[emoji122]
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 16, 2022, 05:29:28 AM
Valpo really needs to improve their non conference schedule, it is as exciting as a ham sandwich on Wonder bread without the cheese and mustard. c'mon Valpo, surely you can do better than this!
Valpo needs to consistently BEAT the opponents on the non conference (and conference) schedule regardless of who they are.,,,
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 16, 2022, 05:29:28 AM
Valpo really needs to improve their non conference schedule, it is as exciting as a ham sandwich on Wonder bread without the cheese and mustard. c'mon Valpo, surely you can do better than this!
No need to improve schedule until we win the games we are supposed to win. We've had too much difficulty winning games against the lower half of Division 1.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Since the first 20-win season (Redmon/Schmidt team) in 1993-94, VU has had back-to-back losing records only three times. This season-to-season listing of MBB W-L records tells the tale:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/valparaiso/ (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/valparaiso/)
The first time was under Homer Drew (2008-09, 2009-10), followed by a final 23-12 season before Bryce took over. The second and third times have been under the current head coach. And 2022-23 could mark the first time a VU MBB team posts a losing record in three successive seasons since joining the ranks of successful mid-majors.
I'll defer to closer students of college basketball on this point, but the transfer portal seems to have changed the game to the point where consistent runs like that under the Drews are now unlikely for mid-majors like Valpo. Guys like Alec Peters, Ryan Broekhoff, and Bryce Drew -- legit, program-building stars who stay for four years -- are increasingly rare. Indeed, perhaps we're not even having this conversation had Javon Freeman-Liberty stayed.
So...it's probably unfair to put all of this on Coach Lottich. But even with the changed environment for mid-majors, VU is losing games it should be winning with its current roster. And the HC bears a lot of responsibility for recruiting that roster. (At the risk of sounding snarky, recruiting a point guard who can score a few points isn't asking for too much.)
The program's current trajectory is towards a return to the early 90s, when VU was on the outside, looking into a world where mid-majors were relevant to the college basketball conversation. I think the situation is reversible, even with current realities such as the transfer portal, but it will take real, 150% commitment and the right people to do so.
You need two things to draw fans to games and attention from a wider range of fans: perceived quality of the team and perceived quality of the opponents. Having only one is not sufficient. I agree that improving the perceived quality of opponents is relatively pointless until the perceived quality of the team is improved dramatically, but attendance and attention will not improve significantly until both are accomplished.
In regards to "putting this all on Coach Lottich", he is completely responsible for the performance of the program (within reasonable expectations, but those expectations are way above the current level of achievement). Being completely responsible includes adjusting to changes outside the program (e.g., transfer portal, etc.). It is no different than it is for an executive who runs a business. By all accounts he seems to be a great person, but not successfully adapting to change is a legitimate reason for dismissal of any executive.
I just watched a YouTube clip from when the students did the Harlem shake. I loved it. If we do part ways with Matt at the end of the year, one candidate who may take the job Erik buggs
It wouldn't surprise me if Lottich becomes a successful head coach one day. Unfortunately it won't be at Valpo. He needs to become an assistant for an older successful coach to learn the finer points of the game.
Lottich wasn't ready to be a head coach when Bryce left. Instead he was thrust into the position because he was next man up, after Roger Powell, and Valpo was afraid (or too cheap) to look outside. To use a baseball analogy, it's like we called up a Single A pitcher to the majors and just let him struggle.
Our run to the MVC championship game in 2020 didn't help the program because it helped justify an extension, when it was already clear that Lottich had major flaws as a coach. At the end of day, it's not working out for neither Valpo nor Lottich and everyone should move on.
It should be a huge scandal that Valpo took a major asset of the University and ran it into the ground. It would be like if the Chapel burned down because of neglect. Valpo has been struggling with finances and enrollment the past few years and we trashed the one thing that gave us national exposure on a consistent basis.
At this point, I think we hope that we get a coach at the end of his career (like Rick Majerus at SLU) who can begin to turn this program around before handing it off to someone younger.
The basketball team's poor performance is just the start. Changing the mascot name to Beacon was another failure with a complete joke of a logo. The least they could've done was change the colors from brown and yellow to something more attractive while they were unnecessarily changing everything else. It's 2022, not 1980. In this day of marketing, the brown and yellow is atrocious and can't be good for business.
Yeah, you're right. But those 2 new dogs really make the program something special. NOT! I didn't think anything could be worse than the name "Beacons" but the University sure found a way to top that fiasco with the 2 dogs. What a joke!
I had forgotten that they took Beacon and stretched it into two dogs. If you were trying to run a business in the ground, it seems that you'd be following the steps they've been sadly doing
Tom Crean?
Chris Collins, Andy Enfield after this season?
Greg Tonagel. Just a thought that we could recruit lower ceiling kids who will go through walls. Keep them for 3-4 years and just out work everyone.
Nostalgic yes. Practical and lower risk in the current budget scenario? Yes.
Downside...You fall off the grid for a couple of years in terms of recruiting outside the region. But the high upside kids you bring in will transfer out anyway after you coach them up. I don't see the Valpo NIL offers going real high to prevent transfers. That's the football story these days for all but the top 10 bluebloods.
Downside: Faculty will clamor even harder to go D3 but maybe that is our new reality. A lot of the faculty wanted that move in the late 80s before Homer bailed out our D-1 ability by getting Bryce and the NCAA bids.
The Coaches Database currently lists Matt Lottich among four Division I coaches "at the end of the line at their current school." The others are Jeff Capel (Pitt), Mark Fox (Cal), and Bobby Hurley (Ariz. St.). The comments:
Six years ago, Lottich became the first Valpo head coach from outside the Drew family since 1988. But after winning the 2017 Horizon title, the program moved to the MVC and have finished above .500 just once since. There are different standards for mid-majors but Valpo has a strong track record that includes nine NCAA Tournament bids since 1996. Last year's team started by losing two exhibition games to D-II's at home and finished in 7th at 6-12 (13-17 overall). That brings Lottich's record since joining the MVC to 72-77 (35-55). Meanwhile, Valpo will attract some quality candidates whenever they are back in the market.
I thought it was just a few vocal clowns suggesting Valpo moves to D3. I think there are better candidates out there.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 07, 2022, 03:26:46 PM
I thought it was just a few vocal clowns suggesting Valpo moves to D3. I think there are better candidates out there.
It is just a few vocal faculty members (I won't refer to them as clowns...they are just wrong). To my knowledge (from people I know at Valpo), there is no consideration of this option.
If it came to hiring a new coach, Greg Tonagel would be a very interesting option - but I doubt that an agreement could be reached.
I did one of those "where were we 20 years ago?" dives and looked at the 2002-03 season on the VU athletics website:
https://cdn.streamlinehosting.net/valpoathletics/media/basketball-men/2002-03/boxscores_stats/TEAMCUME.HTM (https://cdn.streamlinehosting.net/valpoathletics/media/basketball-men/2002-03/boxscores_stats/TEAMCUME.HTM)
A 20-11 record overall, including 12-2 in conference and a 2-pt. loss to Iowa in the first round of the NIT. Not one of VU's greatest teams, but one very representative of the many solid 20+ win seasons.
What struck me was the seriously tough non-conference schedule, including big programs like Syracuse, Cincinnati, and Purdue. There also was a heartbreaking 2 pt. loss at Notre Dame. And more painfully by comparison to today, quality home wins over Samford and Belmont.
I know it's just one season, but I think it's a fair snapshot comparison that illustrates the decline of the program in terms of performance and quality of schedule.
Quote from: David81 on December 07, 2022, 07:25:57 PM
I did one of those "where were we 20 years ago?" dives and looked at the 2002-03 season on the VU athletics website:
https://cdn.streamlinehosting.net/valpoathletics/media/basketball-men/2002-03/boxscores_stats/TEAMCUME.HTM (https://cdn.streamlinehosting.net/valpoathletics/media/basketball-men/2002-03/boxscores_stats/TEAMCUME.HTM)
A 20-11 record overall, including 12-2 in conference and a 2-pt. loss to Iowa in the first round of the NIT. Not one of VU's greatest teams, but one very representative of the many solid 20+ win seasons.
What struck me was the seriously tough non-conference schedule, including big programs like Syracuse, Cincinnati, and Purdue. There also was a heartbreaking 2 pt. loss at Notre Dame. And more painfully by comparison to today, quality home wins over Samford and Belmont.
I know it's just one season, but I think it's a fair snapshot comparison that illustrates the decline of the program in terms of performance and quality of schedule.
Check the attendance figures for the season.
The 13 home contests averaged 4377 per game! Last night's attendance was 1070. It is disheartening what has happened to this program.
That was a fun season, and one in which we garnered At-Large consideration. That Iowa NIT game came down to the final seconds, and we had an offensive rebound in the waning seconds to tie, but Antti Nikkila fumbled the ball out of bounds, before he could go back up. Heartbreaking loss. For those that don't know their Valpo history, that was the 1 season with Scott Drew as HC, before he left for what was a dumpster fire at Baylor.
Thank the previous administration for this debacle
Going to a league we cannot compete in -especially with our resources
Not doing a nation wide search for a coach
Honestly it will take years to revamp the program-if it can be done at all
We are totally irrelevant -
My family had season tickets but gave them up-no thanks-
Its a shame
Quote from: Valpo17 on December 08, 2022, 08:07:08 AM
Thank the previous administration for this debacle
Going to a league we cannot compete in -especially with our resources
Not doing a nation wide search for a coach
Honestly it will take years to revamp the program-if it can be done at all
We are totally irrelevant -
My family had season tickets but gave them up-no thanks-
Its a shame
To be fair, there was some genuine enthusiasm on this board for the MVC move. Though I understood the appeal, I sensed it might be a mistake. I thought that the Horizon League gave Valpo the best ongoing opportunity for some level of post-season play.
Then again, it didn't help that the first MVC season came right after losing Alec Peters. And had JFL stayed, we may not be having the same conversation.
A couple of big breaks in the right direction -- a really good transfer + a Peters/Broekhoff/Oppland kinda guy who stays 4 yrs -- can turn around the situation quickly, but VU needs to put itself in a position to catch those breaks. I don't think we're there now.
Quote from: David81 on December 08, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
To be fair, there was some genuine enthusiasm on this board for the MVC move. Though I understood the appeal, I sensed it might be a mistake. I thought that the Horizon League gave Valpo the best ongoing opportunity for some level of post-season play.
Yes, the overwhelming consensus on this board was that a move to the MVC was a correct one. However, many on the board also advised a full-press approach in the transition rather than complacency or apathy. For instance, at the time, I reminded everyone of the once-in-a-lifetime publicity burst that happened after the Sweet Sixteen run and Bryce's famous shot, a gift opportunity for raising funds and enhancing the facilities that was squandered over subsequent years by the university. Imagine what other universities would have done with such a bonus circumstance!
I suggested the move to the MVC coupled with the previous season's appearance in the NIT finals and all the national publicity that came with it, gave VU a second chance to capitalize and promote the program, especially at a point where the economy was booming. I cautioned that history should not repeat itself with a blown opportunity for fundraising and development of facilities.
There were lengthy threads on this board with suggestions and recommendations for improving the physical atmosphere and game-day experience. However, the administration counterproductively focused on a priority of removing images of the Crusader as well as changing the team name and mascot rather than on significant improvements to the program's process and products, alienating many of the most supportive fans and donors, dividing the base rather than engaging them in a productive campaign to strengthen Athletics. If one purposely wanted a way to undermine the program, it would look something like this.
Therefore, the move to the MVC was a correct decision. However, let's place accountability where it should be; the lack of will by the administration to follow up with a strategic plan for investment and success has led to the dismal situation we now find six years later, still absent a strategic plan let alone any actual substantial action. If there is any chance of recovery and reestablishing Valpo's stature as a well-respected mid-major, the administration needs to enact immediately a short-term plan (no more than three years) to overhaul all aspects of the athletics program—fundraising, facilities, personnel, recruiting, publicity, promotion, competitive expectations, etc. The arrival of AD Small has offered a perfect excuse for such an overhaul.
Quote from: valpopal on December 07, 2022, 09:56:09 PM
Check the attendance figures for the season. The 13 home contests averaged 4377 per game! Last night's attendance was 1070. It is disheartening what has happened to this program.
For greater context and your additional analysis:
SEASON COACH RECORD AV. HOME ATT.2021-22 M. Lottich 14-18 1758
2020-21 M. Lottich 10-18 92 (Covid)
2019-20 M. Lottich 19-16 2797
2018-19 M. Lottich 15-18 2821
2017-18 M. Lottich 15-17 2722
2016-17 M. Lottich 24-9 3086
2015-16 B. Drew 30-7 3573
2014-15 B. Drew 28-6 3065
2013-14 B. Drew 18-16 2833
2012-13 B. Drew 26-8 3173
2011-12 B. Drew 22-12 3383
2010-11 H. Drew 23-12 3362
2009-10 H. Drew 15-17 2739
2008-09 H. Drew 9-22 2973
2007-08 H. Drew 22-14 3666
2006-07 H. Drew 16-15 3520
2005-06 H. Drew 17-12 3354
2004-05 H. Drew 15-16 4174
2003-04 H. Drew 18-13 3944
2002-03 S. Drew 20-11 4376
2001-02 H. Drew 25-8 4530
As I see it, the overall home attendance is trending downward over the past 22 seasons regardless of W-L record -- i.e., 4,000+ averages appear to be a thing of the past. However, it is pretty clear that, on a season to season basis, winning records produce upward bumps in attendance in the face of the overall trend and losing seasons generally produce the opposite. And despite the overall downward trend, it is also reasonable to expect that a winning Valpo MBB program should still be able to consistently generate season average attendance figures in the 3000+ range. The 3,000-3,300 window appears to be the Valpo attendance sweet spot. And we are talking averages here so that means you can expect the occasional 4,000+ single games against the right opponents in a meaningful game -- the 2015-16 season (St. Mary's and FSU) is a good example.
Notice too that Lottich enjoyed a spillover in his first season from the previous NIT run and having AP stay. But interestingly, the drop off in attendance once Alec graduated, and the team had three losing seasons out of four, resulted in average attendance figures only dropping into the 2,700 - 2,800 range (what, maybe 10%?). What strikes me is how the one Covid season coupled with continued losing has taken the air right out of in-person attendance in the last three years.
Quote from: valpopal on December 08, 2022, 01:04:46 PM
Quote from: David81 on December 08, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
To be fair, there was some genuine enthusiasm on this board for the MVC move. Though I understood the appeal, I sensed it might be a mistake. I thought that the Horizon League gave Valpo the best ongoing opportunity for some level of post-season play.
Yes, the overwhelming consensus on this board was that a move to the MVC was a correct one. However, many on the board also advised a full-press approach in the transition rather than complacency or apathy. For instance, at the time, I reminded everyone of the once-in-a-lifetime publicity burst that happened after the Sweet Sixteen run and Bryce's famous shot, a gift opportunity for raising funds and enhancing the facilities that was squandered over subsequent years by the university. Imagine what other universities would have done with such a bonus circumstance!
I suggested the move to the MVC coupled with the previous season's appearance in the NIT finals and all the national publicity that came with it, gave VU a second chance to capitalize and promote the program, especially at a point where the economy was booming. I cautioned that history should not repeat itself with a blown opportunity for fundraising and development of facilities.
There were lengthy threads on this board with suggestions and recommendations for improving the physical atmosphere and game-day experience. However, the administration counterproductively focused on a priority of removing images of the Crusader as well as changing the team name and mascot rather than on significant improvements to the program's process and products, alienating many of the most supportive fans and donors, dividing the base rather than engaging them in a productive campaign to strengthen Athletics. If one purposely wanted a way to undermine the program, it would look something like this.
Therefore, the move to the MVC was a correct decision. However, let's place accountability where it should be; the lack of will by the administration to follow up with a strategic plan for investment and success has led to the dismal situation we now find six years later, still absent a strategic plan let alone any actual substantial action. If there is any chance of recovery and reestablishing Valpo's stature as a well-respected mid-major, the administration needs to enact immediately a short-term plan (no more than three years) to overhaul all aspects of the athletics program—fundraising, facilities, personnel, recruiting, publicity, promotion, competitive expectations, etc. The arrival of AD Small has offered a perfect excuse for such an overhaul.
:thumbsup: THIS.
I think that one can overestimate the amount of "oomph" that comes from a runner-up finish in the NIT and a move to a more competitive conference. Yes, it's "national publicity," in that wire service copy about these games will be carried across the country, and perhaps the same (tho to a lesser extent) about the move to the Valley. Even so, it's not as if folks are sitting up straight and excitedly asking "whoa, what's going on at Valparaiso?"
I'd say the same goes for the alumni/ae base. The Sweet 16 run was incredibly special and became a widespread point of pride. But, again, 2nd place in the NIT and going over to the MVC? If anything, there was disappointment that a team touted in Sports Illustrated to play deep into the NCAA tourney ended up in the NIT. There aren't many folks adding VU to their estate plans or tossing Valpo brochures at their 16-year-olds for that.
Plenty of schools get national street cred based on mainly on their academics and overall quality. VU is not as well known as it should be, but among those in the know, it is generally regarded quite positively. Marquee programs such as Christ College and Engineering are very well respected by folks who know their academic fields but who may not care or know that the school has a DI hoop's team.
That said, I agree that VU has to give this MBB program a major jumpstart. I don't think President Padilla -- a self-professed sports fan -- is happy to see the school's most visible sports team stuck in a very mediocre place. It's quite possible that after the season, there will be changes that stoke some genuine optimism for a return to relevance.
David 81 wrote:
I think that one can overestimate the amount of "oomph" that comes from a runner-up finish in the NIT and a move to a more competitive conference. Yes, it's "national publicity," in that wire service copy about these games will be carried across the country, and perhaps the same (tho to a lesser extent) about the move to the Valley. Even so, it's not as if folks are sitting up straight and excitedly asking "whoa, what's going on at Valparaiso?"
I'd say the same goes for the alumni/ae base. The Sweet 16 run was incredibly special and became a widespread point of pride. But, again, 2nd place in the NIT and going over to the MVC? If anything, there was disappointment that a team touted in Sports Illustrated to play deep into the NCAA tourney ended up in the NIT. There aren't many folks adding VU to their estate plans or tossing Valpo brochures at their 16-year-olds for that.
I am not sure how much I overestimate, but I am sure you are underestimating the impact and influence of the NIT run at the time, David, by limiting it to "wire service copy." The Valpo games in the NIT run appeared on national television at ESPN. I still have the games against FSU, St. Mary's, BYU, and George Washington saved on my DVR. I cannot estimate the value in millions of dollars of such positive exposure for numerous hours on a national sports network, for both the team and the university (including the campus since two games happened in front of packed ARC crowds), but it is substantial. Additionally, the last two games were played at Madison Square Garden in New York City, the center of media coverage. Most importantly, the games were closely watched and favorably received by supporters and potential donors to Valparaiso athletics.
Plenty of schools get national street cred based on mainly on their academics and overall quality. VU is not as well known as it should be, but among those in the know, it is generally regarded quite positively. Marquee programs such as Christ College and Engineering are very well respected by folks who know their academic fields but who may not care or know that the school has a DI hoop's team.
As a career academic for decades who has taught in such programs and published widely in university periodicals or scholarly journals, including two you have cited in previous posts (The Cresset and American Scholar), I am "among those in the know," and I agree that university reputations are created by quality in academic departments and colleges. However, since funding for much of athletics comes from (and sometimes is restricted to) those who identify sports facilities or expenditures as the target of their contributions, I was solely speaking about the possibility of striking while the iron is hot and engaging such donors at a time of energy or enthusiasm for the basketball team.
That said, I agree that VU has to give this MBB program a major jumpstart. I don't think President Padilla -- a self-professed sports fan -- is happy to see the school's most visible sports team stuck in a very mediocre place. It's quite possible that after the season, there will be changes that stoke some genuine optimism for a return to relevance.
With all due respect, your comment, "it's quite possible that after the season, there will be changes," seems to echo the Scarlet O'Hara "tomorrow is another day" attitude that has allowed for repeated delays in action over the years and gotten us where we are six years after entering the MVC—nowhere. Among those longtime fans I know who have not renewed season tickets, one of the reasons for dwindling support and slackening attendance is the realization that nothing is being done now, and followers are tired of being advised for years to be patient when no indication of change is offered.
Unfortunately, I live out of range of regular visits to the campus (NE WI) as does David (Boston, as I did for 42 years). Speaking only for myself, not being close-by at times moderates my views. Pal, you are on the leading edge every day.
What we three all agree on is a change in many things athletic is needed. Where we may diverge is when and how intense. I am a former Valpo two sport athlete (football and T&F), so my bias shades more toward the more immediate, more intense upheaval change. But make no mistake, after blowing the 98 opportunity and the 2016 NIT and MVC move exposure, VU is at the "sh!* or get off the pot" juncture in its athletic journey. A quantum leap must be taken one way or the other. Maintaining the status quo is not only unacceptable, it will, IMO, contribute to the further. deterioration of Valpo's place as a respected institution. Think about it. Law school tanks, enrollment decreases, faculty layoffs, and ....... athletics (arguably the most public face of this small university in NW Indiana) mediocrity or even less.
Back in the 80s Valpo had an epiphany. It realized that a merely expanded Hilltop Gym (the expansion being decicated in 1962 when I matriculated) was holding Valpo back. Hence the ARC. That was a major step/investment/gamble(?) for that time. But it ushered us into D-I and served well as a lower level mid-major. But then......... We. Got. Good. And then it didn't .
Great Scott! Marty, maybe it's time to go back to the future.
Quote from: valpopal on December 08, 2022, 08:33:32 PM
David 81 wrote:
I think that one can overestimate the amount of "oomph" that comes from a runner-up finish in the NIT and a move to a more competitive conference. Yes, it's "national publicity," in that wire service copy about these games will be carried across the country, and perhaps the same (tho to a lesser extent) about the move to the Valley. Even so, it's not as if folks are sitting up straight and excitedly asking "whoa, what's going on at Valparaiso?"
I'd say the same goes for the alumni/ae base. The Sweet 16 run was incredibly special and became a widespread point of pride. But, again, 2nd place in the NIT and going over to the MVC? If anything, there was disappointment that a team touted in Sports Illustrated to play deep into the NCAA tourney ended up in the NIT. There aren't many folks adding VU to their estate plans or tossing Valpo brochures at their 16-year-olds for that.
I am not sure how much I overestimate, but I am sure you are underestimating the impact and influence of the NIT run at the time, David, by limiting it to "wire service copy." The Valpo games in the NIT run appeared on national television at ESPN. I still have the games against FSU, St. Mary's, BYU, and George Washington saved on my DVR. I cannot estimate the value in millions of dollars of such positive exposure for numerous hours on a national sports network, for both the team and the university (including the campus since two games happened in front of packed ARC crowds), but it is substantial. Additionally, the last two games were played at Madison Square Garden in New York City, the center of media coverage. Most importantly, the games were closely watched and favorably received by supporters and potential donors to Valparaiso athletics.
Plenty of schools get national street cred based on mainly on their academics and overall quality. VU is not as well known as it should be, but among those in the know, it is generally regarded quite positively. Marquee programs such as Christ College and Engineering are very well respected by folks who know their academic fields but who may not care or know that the school has a DI hoop's team.
As a career academic for decades who has taught in such programs and published widely in university periodicals or scholarly journals, including two you have cited in previous posts (The Cresset and American Scholar), I am "among those in the know," and I agree that university reputations are created by quality in academic departments and colleges. However, since funding for much of athletics comes from (and sometimes is restricted to) those who identify sports facilities or expenditures as the target of their contributions, I was solely speaking about the possibility of striking while the iron is hot and engaging such donors at a time of energy or enthusiasm for the basketball team.
That said, I agree that VU has to give this MBB program a major jumpstart. I don't think President Padilla -- a self-professed sports fan -- is happy to see the school's most visible sports team stuck in a very mediocre place. It's quite possible that after the season, there will be changes that stoke some genuine optimism for a return to relevance.
With all due respect, your comment, "it's quite possible that after the season, there will be changes," seems to echo the Scarlet O'Hara "tomorrow is another day" attitude that has allowed for repeated delays in action over the years and gotten us where we are six years after entering the MVC—nowhere. Among those longtime fans I know who have not renewed season tickets, one of the reasons for dwindling support and slackening attendance is the realization that nothing is being done now, and followers are tired of being advised for years to be patient when no indication of change is offered.
Valpopal, we may have an honest difference of opinion about the publicity value of that NIT run. I think it's awesome that you, too, enjoyed that great series of games. Personally, I thought it was a lot more fun than VU's many one-and-done performances in the NCAA. I'm sure that a lot of VU hoops fans also have fond memories of that post-season.
But still, the NIT gets little to no love among the bigger throng of sports fans and sports media whose college hoops attention span starts and ends with the NCAA brackets. Yes, you fairly called me out for underplaying the media coverage of the NIT in my comment above. But let's face it, the NIT has been the consolation tournament for many years now. That's exactly what it became for VU after a hugely disappointing loss in the HL tournament, during a season that had sparked more NCAA hoops fantasies for VU fans than any squad since 1998.
In any event, in terms of taking advantage of that NIT run and the MVC move for fundraising purposes for basketball (or VU sports generally), I'm guessing that neither the Athletic Department nor VU's development folks saw them as being that big of a $$$ catalyst for the immediate future. A Sweet Sixteen appearance, for example, might've been much different. Indeed, can you imagine the resulting momentum for making the basketball program an integral part of the Forever Valpo campaign, which launched publicly just a few months later?
My comment about VU's academic reputation was not a direct response to any of yours. Rather, since I started posting to this board, I've been asserting that as important as sports might be to those of us who visit this spot, the overall reputation of the university does not rise or fall significantly on its collegiate sports presence. Collegiate basketball or football glory, especially, can help in terms of general visibility, and in top DI programs can help to bring in money well beyond the Athletic Department. But for everyone else, including VU, sports is just one meaningful piece of the puzzle.
I assure you that I wasn't attempting to channel Scarlett O'Hara in saying that there may well be big changes after this season, but instead trying to gently say that change is likely, absent a miraculous turnaround. I'm not one to counsel patience when patience is not merited. IMO the MBB program doesn't have much room or time for error in terms of reversing its fortunes. I believe we are in agreement on this point. 🤓
Note: I originally & erroneously responded to VULB62. My response should've been to Valpopal, as it is now corrected.
David, I think you were actually replying to Valpopal. I share in varying degrees both yours and Pal's views. Somewhere in all our words and thoughts is agreement. ;D
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 09, 2022, 11:08:45 AM
David, I think you were actually replying to Valpopal. I share in varying degrees both yours and Pal's views. Somewhere in all our words and thoughts is agreement. ;D
VULB62, I apologize for that gaffe! I will go back and edit my comment as a response to Valpopal!
I th8nk everything is cool on this board. I think we can all agree that a status quo solution won't cut it.
Quote from: David81 on December 09, 2022, 05:18:33 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 09, 2022, 11:08:45 AM
David, I think you were actually replying to Valpopal. I share in varying degrees both yours and Pal's views. Somewhere in all our words and thoughts is agreement. ;D
VULB62, I apologize for that gaffe! I will go back and edit my comment as a response to Valpopal!
VULB62 & David: Despite minor differences in details or degree, I am pleased that our messages seem to indicate the three of us agree substantive actions are needed to reverse the program's decline to its dismal current condition.
To add insult to injury our WBB is looking abysmal
Bad loss to Western Illinois-
Another blunder hire by former admin
Across the board we cannot compete-Our Women's Soccer team was pre season favorite yet they bowed out in first round of conference tourney
Sure winning regular season is great but I believe most agree getting into the ncaa tournament is the goal
Quote from: Valpo17 on December 10, 2022, 07:06:43 AM
To add insult to injury our WBB is looking abysmal
Bad loss to Western Illinois-
Another blunder hire by former admin
Across the board we cannot compete-Our Women's Soccer team was pre season favorite yet they bowed out in first round of conference tourney
Sure winning regular season is great but I believe most agree getting into the ncaa tournament is the goal
Agree on the WBB program but not on the Soccer team. Like it or not, being the first team to win a conference championship IS a VERY big deal. Sure, the loss in the tournament was a disappointment but that program is one of only a few on solid ground.
Dr. Small is doing a town hall on the 14th and probably should be wearing asbestos underwear! Think about his arrival, the football team was playing great, the tennis team was playing great and soccer wins a conference title, volleyball wins 12 in a row! All is well right? Um, then the winter sports start and the rotten core of reality sets in. No doubt the spring sports aren't going to settle his stomach either, not with the current state of softball and baseball. He is certainly earning his salary.
As we discuss where VU basketball is now and how it has been on a downturn in recent years, it might be good to remember where the initial rise in the program's stature began, perhaps as reassurance of possibility for a new ascent. This was the beginning of success, though it would take another decade to get to the Sweet 16. I recall sitting right behind the Notre Dame bench and hearing Digger Phelps tell his players during the break before overtime, "There is no way we are going to lose to this team!" My newlywed wife and I were on camera frequently during the game. President Harre, who had been inaugurated only weeks before, was sitting near us with his wife, and he looked dazed at the final buzzer, so I went to him and shook his hand, told him his tenure was off to a good start.
Quote from: valpopal on December 09, 2022, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: David81 on December 09, 2022, 05:18:33 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 09, 2022, 11:08:45 AM
David, I think you were actually replying to Valpopal. I share in varying degrees both yours and Pal's views. Somewhere in all our words and thoughts is agreement. ;D
VULB62, I apologize for that gaffe! I will go back and edit my comment as a response to Valpopal!
VULB62 & David: Despite minor differences in details or degree, I am pleased that our messages seem to indicate the three of us agree substantive actions are needed to reverse the program's decline to its dismal current condition.
Valpopal, yes, indeed! Our common ground is pretty substantial. Thanks for your comment. :)
valpopal - Very happy that you posted this, but sort of scary that there is a blurry (because of the video quality from Sportsvision) and much younger version of myself sitting behind the Valpo bench. My favorite memory of this game involved my wife. She is very polite and pretty restrained. A Notre Dame fan (a woman) was sitting behind us and kept screeching loudly during every Valpo free throw attempt. When the game was over, my wife turned around and yelled at the woman. My wife may have done something like this only once or twice since that game.
Sports vision was a crock of ....
Experiment is an appropriate word for Lottich's first contract. Even though at the time we had the luxury of not experimenting.......
Dumb is the appropriate word for lottich's second contract.
maybe the former ad will contribute to the buyout....
Valpo certainly reacted way too fast in that contract extension.
Please expound on how winning a season championship in womens soccer is a BIG deal?
Quote from: Valpo17 on December 12, 2022, 08:54:53 AM
Please expound on how winning a season championship in womens soccer is a BIG deal?
If you are a fan of Valpo athletics, then any conference championship, be it an individual title or a team title is a big deal. In this case, it was our very first conference title for ANY sport. Thus, a very BIG deal.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 10, 2022, 07:10:38 PM
Valpo certainly reacted way too fast in that contract extension.
Yep. That contract extension was a massive overreaction to a four-day stretch. You have to wonder what would have happened had VU not pulled out that Loyola game.
Quote from: AlaskaCrusader19 on December 12, 2022, 12:57:40 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 10, 2022, 07:10:38 PM
Valpo certainly reacted way too fast in that contract extension.
Yep. That contract extension was a massive overreaction to a four-day stretch. You have to wonder what would have happened had VU not pulled out that Loyola game.
Valpo needed a late block to secure a win over the winless Evansville squad.
Quote from: vu72 on December 12, 2022, 09:37:26 AM
Quote from: Valpo17 on December 12, 2022, 08:54:53 AM
Please expound on how winning a season championship in womens soccer is a BIG deal?
If you are a fan of Valpo athletics, then any conference championship, be it an individual title or a team title is a big deal. In this case, it was our very first conference title for ANY sport. Thus, a very BIG deal.
We should always be pleased when a Valpo team wins a conference championship or succeeds in other ways. Indeed, Valpo should make a big deal out of it - but it cannot be used to justify that the athletic department is effective. Men's basketball is the marquee sport and the athletic department cannot be good unless men's basketball is succeeding.
Quote from: vu84v2 on December 12, 2022, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 12, 2022, 09:37:26 AM
Quote from: Valpo17 on December 12, 2022, 08:54:53 AM
Please expound on how winning a season championship in womens soccer is a BIG deal?
If you are a fan of Valpo athletics, then any conference championship, be it an individual title or a team title is a big deal. In this case, it was our very first conference title for ANY sport. Thus, a very BIG deal.
We should always be pleased when a Valpo team wins a conference championship or succeeds in other ways. Indeed, Valpo should make a big deal out of it - but it cannot be used to justify that the athletic department is effective. Men's basketball is the marquee sport and the athletic department cannot be good unless men's basketball is succeeding.
Great point...all i am saying is that for the most part we only care about mb-
im sure the ladies are proud of their win-but it does nothing for the landscape of our school or athletics programs
Women's soccer brings more athletes to campus than men's basketball and doesn't offer full scholarships so they are actively paying the university money. This year also many of the seniors embraced leadership and were active inside the athletic department, the community and campus activities. When's the last time a Man's basketball player besides Vashil was a visible member of the campus community?
All of these women are going to continue to recruit other women to come to play here and broaden our reach in different circles. Maybe not as nationally as a NCAA tournament for Men's Basketball, but becoming a solid option in Division 1 women's soccer for strong mid major programs is still something that will be a net positive on the university and maintaining solid success within our other programs means that we can have a stable recruiting presence and good word of mouth in other sports that will help the Athletic Department and the campus in a more consistent and positive way than the flash in the pan of the occasional March Madness experience.
Being the first team to win a championship is not a VERY big deal.
Men's soccer was the first one to win the HL. Where is that program now?