Toledo started their schedule with an exhibition game on Saturday...
The Toledo men's basketball team opened its 2022-23 season with a 100-59 exhibition victory over NCAA Division II foe Hillsdale on Saturday in Savage Arena. Senior JT Shumate topped the Rockets with 19 points, while junior RayJ Dennis tallied 16 points.
"I thought we played hard and played with discipline," Head Coach Tod Kowalczyk said. "We played against a team that is tremendous in motion offense and certainly got us on a few occasions. I think overall it was a great start to our season.
Toledo took control of the game with a 19-0 run to take a 27-16 lead with 7:32 remaining in the first half. The Rockets held a 40-25 advantage at the break. UT put together another big spurt by outscoring the Chargers by a 24-2 margin over a six-minute stretch to assume a 75-42 cushion with 7:26 to play.
Toledo will play one more exhibition contest on Sunday, Oct. 30 at NCAA Division II Findlay. Tipoff time vs. the Oilers is set for 3:00 p.m. NOTICE: They are playing a ROAD Exhibition game at Findlay...now THAT's scheduling!
Toledo received one vote in the top 25 preseason poll, as well
Toledo has a lot of returning scorers. I'm not sure Valpo has enough offense to keep up. Toledo will likely control the pace Difficult first matchup.
JT Shumate of Toledo started his career at Walsh. As a trivia question, which former Valpo player transferred to Walsh after a couple years at Valpo.
Quote from: valpo84 on October 26, 2022, 08:40:43 PM
JT Shumate of Toledo started his career at Walsh. As a trivia question, which former Valpo player transferred to Walsh after a couple years at Valpo.
Hrvoje Vucic. I remember checking his stats every so often to see how he was doing, and he had a pretty good D2 career.
Could be a rough start... I'll let the game play out, but I'm not optimistic about this roster outside of King and Krikke.
Rockets played their second exhibition game on Saturday...
FINDLAY, Ohio – The Toledo men's basketball team was tested before pulling away in the second half in a 100-88 exhibition victory on Sunday afternoon at NCAA Division II power Findlay. The contest was played before a near-capacity crowd in the Oilers' Croy Gymnasium.
"Findlay really challenged us and that's exactly why we play this game on the road," Head Coach Tod Kowalczyk said. "We play this game because we think it's going to help us get better regardless of the outcome. That happened today because we found out what we needed to work on and that's really valuable."
Junior RayJ Dennis topped the Rockets offensively with 26 points.
Toledo jumped out to an early 14-6 advantage before the Oilers knocked down four three-pointers as part of a 12-2 spurt to take an 18-16 lead with 13:29 remaining in the first half.
Findlay stayed hot and increased its margin to 43-27 at the 7:23 mark. Following a timeout, the Rockets went on an 11-2 run to get within 45-38 four minutes before halftime.
"We handled the adversity we faced well but we shouldn't have put ourselves in that position," Dennis said. "We started the game strong but then we let up a little bit. It was important for us to stay together and fight back in a hostile environment."
Setric Millner Jr. scored the final four points of the half to put Toledo down 52-46 at intermission.
Millner's dunk four minutes after the break gave the Rockets a 58-56 lead. Toledo then extended its lead to as many as 15 points before settling for a 12-point victory.
"Findlay's a tough team and those dudes made some shots," Millner said. "They came to compete and that's why we came down here to play them. We have to fix some things on defense, but we'll be alright. We still have some things to work on. This is what we needed to help us get ready for our season."
=========
From 16-down to 15-up over about a 20-minute span... out-scoring the Oilers 73-45 points in the last 27 minutes.
(BTW, Findlay is called the oilers because Marathon Oil Headquarters building is in downtown).
Line opens at Valpo +13.5, jeezus that worries me! I was thinking +8 or 9. I know Toledo has a bunch of returners, but if Valpo wants to start the season off strong and have the chance of an upper echelon MVC finish this needs to be a W or at least close. Maybe a little too dramatic, but this team needs some excitement! Who else outside of Krikke n King can score consistently? Paleese? Edwards ? Green? Lottich please apply that Stanford knowledge to VU basketball, and LETS FIND AN INDETITY! We had one with the Drew's, but what is this team about ?!?!!!
Toledo 82
Valpo 75
Toledo will have more of an identity and chemistry for the first game and Valpo is still figuring things out on both sides. Rockets have better guard play with Dennis, Ross and the wing guy Shumate. I don't think Valpo's defense will be able to slow the tempo enough. 81 66 type game. Hope I am wrong. Krikke Shumate matchup should be fun
Game day! My expectations aren't high, but I'm looking forward to another season. Let's see what the boys can do. HAIL CRUSADERS!
Toledo is positioned to have a really good year. Valpo...not so much. Hoping Ben and Kobe will provide some exciting movements to get us through the season. Would love some other surprise performers as well.
No grit , no fight in the first 4 minutes of the season , ughhhhh
5 minutes into the season and it's apparent that nothing has changed.
Krikke looks like a freshman.
Hopefully Dr. Small is taking note, fire Lottich now . I'm sure we'll get it going, but to not have this team ready for a premier mid major is on the guy making 300k. He should've been fired 3 seasons ago. Get him the Fawk out
Matt Lottich had 8 months to prepare for this game. And yet it looks like we have no game plan just minutes into the game. Yikes.
Down 46-20. Wow.
I don't think there is any coming back from the point we are as a program. Assuming we fire have a new coach after this year, what is there to recruit on? No recent success, bad facilities, dwindling public support.
The fact that Matt Lottich's absolute peak is boring mediocrity and that has apparently been acceptable for 7 years now is embarrassing.
Valpo will need a 10 12 games to figure out chemistry. Rockets would finish top 3 of MVC this year. They have played together awhile now, ummmmm we haven't
A turnover and a run out dunk to end the first half and double us up score wise. Perfect way to prove that, once again, we suck. I may watch the second half just to see if we can play any worse. I would bet that we can, but Toledo may show mercy and play their managers and cheerleaders some in the second half to keep the margin within 50.
Valpo is yesterday's news - plenty of talent available over the last 7 years - unfortunately the coach couldn't put it together!!!!
Much better second half. I didn't watch the first half, but was it turnovers that killed us? I didn't see many turnovers in the second half, and we shot well overall for the game, so that is the only thing, outside of FTs, that makes sense in the 15 point loss
Credit where it's due. Team played much better in the second half. Toledo may have let up with that big lead, and I don't know if their backups played more in the second half, but regardless outscoring Toledo by 11 to lose by 15 is more in line with expectations. We shall see how things progress.
Sigh... At this point there really are no words... At least we fought hard in the second half but that's not even a moral victory at this point. It's just another Lottich team with all that that entails. No offense No cohesion No game plan and another loss to the kind of team we used to beat regularly. I want to give it a few more games before I call the season a failure but I see no reasons for hope and optimism even one game in. I'm just so tired. This program needs a change badly.
I think Toledo stepped off the gas in the second half. Krikke shot 2/12 in the first have with 4 turnovers. He played much better in the second half. Also, Nick Edwards was a lot more aggressive in the second half. I don't think he took a single shot or maybe just one shot in the first half. We were also short handed without Rudiger's aggressive defense and Nelson wasn't available, as well. Besides Barrett and Bayu already being out probably until after Winter break.
Yaada yaada yaada :snore: :snore: :snore:
Come on. First game with basically a new squad that have to learn to play together. Toledo is a damn fine team. Deep in talent and will probably win the MAC. Yes the first half was hard to watch but play in the second half was much better. Krikke and King played as expected and it was good to see Green put up 20 points and going 5 for 8 in 3 point shooting. The guys looked nervous at first. Lets give them a few more games before all the negatives roll in. The offense is still a big question mark.
Quote from: vok22 on November 07, 2022, 06:39:31 PM
I don't think there is any coming back from the point we are as a program. Assuming we fire have a new coach after this year, what is there to recruit on? No recent success, bad facilities, dwindling public support.
Very much agree. The program is dead for the foreseeable future.
And it cannot possibly be overstated how big of a mistake it was leaving the Horizon League for the MVC. We cannot compete in the MVC.
Some may not like to admit all of this, but they're kidding themselves.
I watched the first half and then turned it off. New faces committing the same mistakes as in previous years. No game plan and poor execution. Clearly we just need to keep driving into the lane when they have two guys there so we can either 1) throw up a wild shot or 2) turn the ball over.
Toledo is a good mid-major team. And we were outclassed by them up and down. I fear that we're in for a rough season in the MVC.
Stepping up to the MVC was not a mistake just on the tournament money alone. Moreover outside of men's basketball we are showing the ability to compete at the MVC level. Our volleyball team has posted some outstanding results and our women's soccer team just won the conference. We're doing fine. Our flagship program hiring a coach completely unprepared for the job on the hopes of one last glorious run during the Peters era before we moved conferences however was a mistake. That decision is the entire reason we are where we are today. It would have been better to conduct a national search and find the best candidate after Powell turned us down. I have no doubt the program would be much better off in the MVC today if they had done that.
Spot on VU grad.
What a terrible performance. No doubt, Toledo is one of the better mid-majors out there, but I remember when Valparaiso was as well. I want to believe that things will get better, but outside of one weekend in March 2020, there hasn't been much positive over the past five plus seasons. I hope Padilla and Small want to win as badly as us fans do.
Woof.
Valpo can compete in the MVC, it chooses not to. Going to the MVC was not a mistake, but going while running with the same strategy as the HL is the mistake. At least we are still playing in a meaningful conference and as someone has said, we get NCAAT money from it.
I turned it off at halftime I couldnt watch anymore. We had no business being on the court with Toledo last night. How far we have fallen. CBB is all about momentum and...well, we havent had any in years.
Well. as usual, we had four scholarship players riding the pines. They basically beat us at the foul line, making 13 to our 4. I certainly was impressed with Green. Clearly we were a team not used to playing together and I have hope that we will get there with some games under our belts. Ben looked great IN THE SECOND HALF and Cam looked like a deer in the head lights. Overall very solid point guard play. I too will give it a few games before calling it a lost cause. hey! The Women won!
Just in case anybody truly misses being in the HL I invite you to review the scores from around that league last night. I really hate bagging on other conferences but I mean would you seriously miss THIS even if it resulted in more wins for VU?
The HL had ONE D1 win last night. ONE. Youngstown State over Canisius 92-81. Every other win was over a non-D1. The other highlight was PFW (Who looks like they should be good the move to a more geographically friendly conference seems to have really helped them) keeping it semi-close against Michigan and losing by 19 75-56. Moreover, their one D1 win was matched by Cleveland State--last year's REGULAR SEASON CHAMPION mind you--losing to Non-D1 Notre Dame college at home 72-68. Other notes around the league:
Ohio State ripped Robert Morris by 38 91-53
Iowa State demolished IUPUI by 49 88-39
Northern Kentucky lost to Kent State at home by 22 79-57 (Kent State is a good program they won the MAC last year but it's not a good look to get blown out like that on your home floor especially when NKU has been a strong program of late).
And of course there's Green Bay getting throttled by a mid-pack MVC team (Indiana State) by 27 80-53.
Granted the MVC had a pretty sizable slipup with Illinois State losing to Western Illinois at home 71-68 but at least our biggest slipup was against a D1 team in the first game of a new coach's tenure. If you seriously miss this, and you don't enjoy what we have by comparison (a conference where teams do well in the non conference and can potentially make at large cases and win tournament games) even if it results in less success for Valpo individually then your interest was not in seeing Valpo grow as a program and you were fine with being a one and done low seed tournament team at best. I wanted more. And I hope most of the rest of the fanbase still feels the same way.
The mere mention of saying the Horizon League is better to be at than the MVC is laughable. Besides, the Horizon League barely resembles the conference Valpo left.
I really enjoyed watching Green play. The offense should move through Kobe every time. He can be so fun to watch and can get it done. I didn't expect Valpo to win. Toledo is good. But I do want to see that the boys are prepared to play and utilize the talent on the floor. Having four players out....again.... is a huge red flag. That should not be a norm, yet it seems like it is. Will Barrett ever play a full season?
Side note: I didn't catch much of the Loyola game, but I did catch Sheldon's game winning shot. Classic Sheldon.
I see the doom and gloomers are out in full force.
Here is what I saw.
HORRIBLE start, we fell behind and were never able to catch up. Look at the game flow, after the bad start we kept up with Toledo the whole game.
Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential. Hard game to win regardless.
Valpo has a very new team, I didn't expect we come out looking amazing game 1.
Our two stars played fairly well, three new starters played well. A positive that we should look at as a good sign as the team gels.
Quote from: vuny98 on November 08, 2022, 09:09:13 AM I see the doom and gloomers are out in full force. Here is what I saw. HORRIBLE start, we fell behind and were never able to catch up. Look at the game flow, after the bad start we kept up with Toledo the whole game. Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential. Hard game to win regardless. Valpo has a very new team, I didn't expect we come out looking amazing game 1. Our two stars played fairly well, three new starters played well. A positive that we should look at as a good sign as the team gels.
[/size]I mean, Valpo stuck with them once the game was already over and Toledo could take their foot off the pedal. At no point did Valpo look competitive last night.
I'm also concerned about Krikke's comments after the game saying they weren't ready either mentally, physically, or emotionally. And that they came in there thinking the game would be easy.
That's an indictment of Lottich and shows the coaches have failed the players.
Quote from: vuny98 on November 08, 2022, 09:09:13 AM
I see the doom and gloomers are out in full force.
Here is what I saw.
HORRIBLE start, we fell behind and were never able to catch up. Look at the game flow, after the bad start we kept up with Toledo the whole game.
Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential. Hard game to win regardless.
Valpo has a very new team, I didn't expect we come out looking amazing game 1.
Our two stars played fairly well, three new starters played well. A positive that we should look at as a good sign as the team gels.
Can you blame "the doom and gloomers"? Every season we're asked to ignore the obvious and look for "a good sign." "Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential": that should be a quote about Valpo, a once respected mid-major team that unfortunately has lost its luster, to put it mildly. Instead, after witnessing the past five years of mediocrity (to be generous) with great frustration, I repeat what I wrote on this board in March: "I will not believe in progress until I witness victory on the court. I no longer give Valpo basketball any benefit of the doubt that I once did. Unfortunately, the trust this program fostered in fans for so long has now been squandered."
Quote from: mj on November 08, 2022, 09:44:07 AMI'm also concerned about Krikke's comments after the game saying they weren't ready either mentally, physically, or emotionally. And that they came in there thinking the game would be easy. That's an indictment of Lottich and shows the coaches have failed the players.
I agree with you on this. Valpo was a 13-point underdog and they had a losing season last year. Why would they think anything would be easy short of Trinity Christian?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 08, 2022, 08:18:11 AM
Just in case anybody truly misses being in the HL I invite you to review the scores from around that league last night. I really hate bagging on other conferences but I mean would you seriously miss THIS even if it resulted in more wins for VU?
The HL had ONE D1 win last night. ONE. Youngstown State over Canisius 92-81. Every other win was over a non-D1. The other highlight was PFW (Who looks like they should be good the move to a more geographically friendly conference seems to have really helped them) keeping it semi-close against Michigan and losing by 19 75-56. Moreover, their one D1 win was matched by Cleveland State--last year's REGULAR SEASON CHAMPION mind you--losing to Non-D1 Notre Dame college at home 72-68. Other notes around the league:
Ohio State ripped Robert Morris by 38 91-53
Iowa State demolished IUPUI by 49 88-39
Northern Kentucky lost to Kent State at home by 22 79-57 (Kent State is a good program they won the MAC last year but it's not a good look to get blown out like that on your home floor especially when NKU has been a strong program of late).
And of course there's Green Bay getting throttled by a mid-pack MVC team (Indiana State) by 27 80-53.
Granted the MVC had a pretty sizable slipup with Illinois State losing to Western Illinois at home 71-68 but at least our biggest slipup was against a D1 team in the first game of a new coach's tenure. If you seriously miss this, and you don't enjoy what we have by comparison (a conference where teams do well in the non conference and can potentially make at large cases and win tournament games) even if it results in less success for Valpo individually then your interest was not in seeing Valpo grow as a program and you were fine with being a one and done low seed tournament team at best. I wanted more. And I hope most of the rest of the fanbase still feels the same way.
Good points about the current Horizon League MBB lineup, and good points by others about other VU sports teams being able to compete in the Valley.
But as for this edition of VU men's hoops, the giveaway for me is the non-conference schedule overall, as has been hashed out on this board since they announced it. Toledo and a couple of others capture what a respectable Valley team should be playing for its non-conference slate. But this year's non-conference lineup overall reminds me of VU MBB from before Homer Drew began producing 20-win seasons. It smacks of a program going backwards.
I don't know how much longer this can continue. DI is littered with teams that serving as pre-conference cannon fodder for P5 schools and W-L builders for quality mid-majors. VU is becoming one of them.
6 free throws isn't going to get it done. 17 turnovers isn't going to get it done when the opponent has half that many and, not surprisingly, ends up with 10 more shots in the game. 20 minutes and 2 shots, no points and 2 assists from a backup PG isn't going to get it done. How about a short glance at the basket once in a while?
Shot well (which I don't think is a given with this team) and still lost by 15.
Not good. I don't and didn't expect it to turn around in game 1 vs a team which would likely win a MVC title but there are a lot of signs of the same ol' same ol'.
Argument 1 - Valpo has a new team
When was the last time Valpo didn't have a new team? and why is that the case?
Argument 2 - Toledo is a good mid-major
Great! why is Valpo NOT a good mid-major?
Argument 3 - Krikke: We were not prepared and we thought it would be easy
Why were you not prepared? and whose fault is that?
Also, you almost lost to Cedarville at home!!! What makes you think that @Toledo would be easy?
Now here is the real question. What makes anyone think that Lottich is a good D1 coach?
When I look at his resume, I see 3 years of coaching under Bryce Drew followed by 6 years of disappointments and finding excuses. Is that the best Valpo can do?
Before we haul out the pitchforks and torches, could we at least wait until this team has played more than ONE game?
Paul
The fact that they, the players, felt unprepared is a direct reflection of the coaching. As I have said it is no surprise Toledo won, but seriously....they were unprepared?? What were they doing all summer? And all fall? I strongly believe that a good coach would make the us respectable. Some coaches have it and others don't. Personally, I am not sure lack of experience is the biggest problem. Less experienced coaches with the ability to teach, lead, and construct creative offenses/defenses would be more successful.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it was a good game. Or that anyone is happy with the state of Valpo basketball right now.
But before 5 mins were through on the game, we had people saying coach needs to be fired now, season is over and there is no coming back from where the program is at.
Lottich probably should be fired, but if it didn't happen at the end of last year, it shouldn't be after the first half of the first game.
And I also wouldn't read too much into a single comment from a college kid after a hard loss. It may be true but it may have also been an in the moment reaction. (Not a defense of Lottich at all, I tend to agree his game plans sucks, but take Krikke's comment with a grain of salt)
Game sucked, long season to go.
Toledo is a very good team this season, ranked #4 in Mid-Major poll and favored to win the MAC. It was good to see an improvement in the second half, outscoring UT by 11. It will be interesting to see how the team reacts Sunday vs. another MAC foe.
Argument 1 - Valpo has a new team
This is every year
Quote from: AlaskaCrusader19 on November 08, 2022, 10:34:39 AM
Quote from: mj on November 08, 2022, 09:44:07 AMI'm also concerned about Krikke's comments after the game saying they weren't ready either mentally, physically, or emotionally. And that they came in there thinking the game would be easy. That's an indictment of Lottich and shows the coaches have failed the players.
I agree with you on this. Valpo was a 13-point underdog and they had a losing season last year. Why would they think anything would be easy short of Trinity Christian?
I couldn't find the tape of what he said, but if true, this concerns me greatly. How in the world could they ever think this was going to be an easy game and not be prepared for it? Yes the coaches are at fault if that happened, but man, Krikke is a veteran and supposed to be a team leader. How could he not see that his team was unprepared and over confident. He saw how we lost to Toledo at home last year. How could he allow his teammates to be overconfident on their court this year? Maybe he was just saying stuff to get through the presser, but players, especially veterans have to show some leadership as well. Yes our coaches are responsible, but players have to step up too.
Good lord, can we quit with the 'we should have stayed in the HL' BS? Regardless of our performance in Men's Basketball, the MVC is a much better and stable conference for a school like Valpo. The Summit League and Horizon League are transition leagues, not a destination league...
Considering our back to back losses to UIC, a middle of the pack Horizon League team, I would be terrified to see where we would be at if we stayed in the Horizon. We would likely have hardly any more success under Lottich in that league than we are having here, except in a far worse conference against satellite schools. We might be talking about dropping to D2.
Quote from: valpo64 on November 08, 2022, 04:00:23 PM
Toledo is a very good team this season, ranked #4 in Mid-Major poll and favored to win the MAC. It was good to see an improvement in the second half, outscoring UT by 11. It will be interesting to see how the team reacts Sunday vs. another MAC foe.
I was busy during the first half, saw the remarkably disappointing halftime score, and then caught most of the second half. Toledo is a good team, with many good athletes and who hit contested threes in the second half. Of course, it is much easier to do that on your home floor with a large lead.
This is the kind of game that should prepare VU for the conference season - I'm sure it will get the attention of the players, and the film will expose some of the flaws and opportunities. Let's see where things stand in January, not after one game.
I don't know whether Ben Krikke said "we were not prepared", but can we step back for a moment and recognize that Ben is a 21 or 22 year old college student. Any of us could use the wrong words if we were asked about our organization's performance. While any account that I have seen indicates that Ben is hard-working, mature and responsible, anyone his age can use the wrong words when asked questions.
Beyond that, however, being down 20+ points in the first half is not a good indicator of things to come. I hope this is just a bad sample from a better team, but excuses are not going to cut it if this is how the team performs throughout the season.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 09, 2022, 09:55:00 AMI don't know whether Ben Krikke said "we were not prepared",
I think it's pretty clear that Ben Krikke said that the team was not prepared.
TOLEDO - Ben Krikke has never been one to shy away from telling the truth, even if that truth is hard and uncomfortable.
There were plenty of hard truths and uncomfortable moments for Krikke and the rest of the Valparaiso men's basketball team during the first half of Monday's season-opening loss to Toledo.
The Rockets scored 21 of the first 25 points and rolled to a 52-26 halftime advantage. The Beacons fought back in the second half, but ultimately fell 85-70 at Savage Arena in Toledo, Ohio.
"We just weren't ready," Krikke said. "Mentally. Physically. Emotionally. I think we came in thinking it would be easy. Obviously this is a bit of a wake-up call, an eye opener. Our work is cut out for us."
Again, I wouldn't read too much into that. You come into a game and you get kicked around for the first 10 minutes, what else are you going to say? "We came into this game with the right mindset and best attitude and prepared as best we could and still got the :censored: kicked out of us?" No, that would be an even worse look.
It could have been phrased better for sure. "We werent ready" and "thought it would be easy" sound bad on the surface.
My interpretation of what he meant to say is "We came into this game with a lot of confidence, but we were exposed in many ways and its clear we have more work to do to get better mentally, physically and emotionally"
Mentally it is easier for a player to justify a lousy performance as not being prepared because that, in the players mind, is easy to change. They don't want to consider that the team just may not be good enough to beat a team such as Toledo.
These type of games happen, just ask Murray State.
SLU is good and will probably be in the Big East soon if I had to guess. Absolutely no shame in losing to them especially for a school that just stepped up to the MVC and went through a huge transition (new coach bunch of transfers etc). Prohm has a track record at Murray though he'll get it turned around I'm sure.