An opportunity for the Beacons to chalk up a win for the hometown fans.
I certainly wouldn't predict a blowout. Evansville, coming of a close loss to Belmont, must have this date circled on the schedule to notch a victory.
Valpo wins, and if it were to Valpo leadership and trustees, Lottich gets an extension at a lower salary. That would be such a Valpo decision.
Valpo 74
Evansville 66
Which team shows up. Can't lay an egg at home.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Over Under 2,000 fans? Official attendance counts the, scores table, media, players and refs.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 28, 2023, 07:55:40 AM
Valpo wins, and if it were to Valpo leadership and trustees, Lottich gets an extension at a lower salary. That would be such a Valpo decision.
I really don't understand your constant contention about Valpo leadership. AD in his first year. Relatively new president who took over the job in the middle of a pandemic when there were far more important things than basketball on his plate. Those are the two decision-makers. Anything that has happened before them should go out the door IMO. Maybe I'm wrong.
I have no confidence that we will play well tonight and that has kept me at home again. I don't think that anything can change my negativity without a near complete program overhaul. I don't always properly recognize talent and potential but I can recognize failure.
Good first half. Aces certainly are the least talented team in the league. Play Bayu more, rest Krikke. I guess Palm is injured, in the dog house?
We are letting them hang around-certainly concerning. Let's put them away!
Yay, we won't go 3-17! Yes, I am going to keep doing this :)
Quote from: AB on January 28, 2023, 03:58:12 PM
Over Under 2,000 fans? Official attendance counts the, scores table, media, players and refs.
Just under 2,000 fans (1,969)
The ARC was 39% full. :(
Not sure, but sadly it was probably are largest crowd of the season. A hundred or so Evansville fans helped. Student section was still 2/3 empty.
Quote from: justducky on January 28, 2023, 05:58:14 PM
I have no confidence that we will play well tonight and that has kept me at home again. I don't think that anything can change my negativity without a near complete program overhaul. I don't always properly recognize talent and potential but I can recognize failure.
This post aged well. I don't always recognize prediction ability but I can recognize a "true fan".
Quote from: IndyValpo on January 28, 2023, 10:15:57 PM
Quote from: justducky on January 28, 2023, 05:58:14 PM
I have no confidence that we will play well tonight and that has kept me at home again. I don't think that anything can change my negativity without a near complete program overhaul. I don't always properly recognize talent and potential but I can recognize failure.
This post aged well. I don't always recognize prediction ability but I can recognize a "true fan".
Call me stupid, but despite all the negativity surrounding the program I still thoroughly enjoyed being there in person tonight. I think you would have too, ducky.
Okay good! I will call the glass half full tonight and not half empty. You got a home win and you had 1,900 fans.
I won't comment on the 1/3 student section on a Saturday night game in late January. Let's just start today with a win and a decent crowd. And then not go backward again.
The thing that I have enjoyed the most out of this season, is watching Connor Barrett go from utter disbelief at making his first 3 of the season (and his teammates overly clapping for him on it), to shooting with 100% confidence now. I think that Maximus Nelson has gone through that same feeling throughout the middle of the season, but he never really quit shooting. Connor looked completely tepid over his first few games, but now works his a$$ off on both sides of the floor. Utter joy to see his confidence come back.
Quote from: valpotx on January 29, 2023, 12:04:23 AM
The thing that I have enjoyed the most out of this season, is watching Connor Barrett go from utter disbelief at making his first 3 of the season (and his teammates overly clapping for him on it), to shooting with 100% confidence now. I think that Maximus Nelson has gone through that same feeling throughout the middle of the season, but he never really quit shooting. Connor looked completely tepid over his first few games, but now works his a$$ off on both sides of the floor. Utter joy to see his confidence come back.
Preach. Absolutely preach.
Pgmado - I can see your confusion. Regarding Small and Padilla, nothing negative can be said about them. They are new, seem to decent, doing the right thing, and care about the basketball program. But do they some level of power to make "executive orders"? My concern is that the overall university leadership and governance, where there are members apathetic to the basketball program or passive to make bold decisions such as this one. I would guess for some that if we could give the coaching position a pay cut and maintain sub-mediocrity, that is acceptable. Their view might be, "well as long as Evansville is at the bottom and we are not, that's great!"
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 29, 2023, 09:00:52 AM
Pgmado - I can see your confusion. Regarding Small and Padilla, nothing negative can be said about them. They are new, seem to decent, doing the right thing, and care about the basketball program. But do they some level of power to make "executive orders"? My concern is that the overall university leadership and governance, where there are members apathetic to the basketball program or passive to make bold decisions such as this one. I would guess for some that if we could give the coaching position a pay cut and maintain sub-mediocrity, that is acceptable. Their view might be, "well as long as Evansville is at the bottom and we are not, that's great!"
Small surely didn't come to Valpo to preside over a MBB program in decline, and Padilla strikes me as being the most enthusiastic sports prez VU has had, perhaps ever. (Did anyone see the fall welcome back video he did, which included funny spoofs of himself on the fields with the football and soccer teams? Each of his predecessors had his strong points for VU, but none would've done something like that.)
But we should understand that Padilla and Small are not in an easy position: What makes a possible head coaching change a "bold decision" is less about the W-L record of the incumbent and more about the money, right? Either way, Padilla will be criticized: Don't make a change or make one on the cheap, and many close fans of the MBB program will be angry over a lack of commitment to winning. Make a big change (presumably including a costly buyout), and others will be angry that VU is paying someone the equivalent of a small academic department's worth of full-time faculty salaries to walk away, while ponying up to pay his successor big $$$ as well. And...he must answer to the VU Board on his decisions as well.
I don't see anyone here or elsewhere suggesting that so long as Valpo isn't at the very bottom of the MVC standings, everything is fine. But Padilla, especially, has a lot on his plate in addition to the fortunes of the basketball team.
In the meantime, I watched the post-game with Coach Lottich, Ben Krikke, and Max Nelson. You know what, no one's quitting. They're not boastful about beating Evansville, but they're not acting beaten, either. They're still taking pride in their craft. I hope the team finishes well, and let the post-season bring what it brings.
Great comments David. Padilla and Smart have a very difficult job ahead in an economic and cultural situation where it's very challenging to be successful in the MVC.
While we all wish things were moving in a better direction, take heart! Things in other parts of the basketball world are not all roses either! To wit, Loyola Chicago, with their beautiful practice facility overlooking Lake Michigan, are 1-7 and now sit in last place in a conference just slightly better than our Valley. Oh, and that Drew kid, you know, the great coach formerly ours,had his team lose to Tarleton State(?) by 18 points and are now fully ensconced in the middle of the pack in the WAC, a conferenced ranked two spots worse than the Valley by Sagarin. Stuff happens! It's college basketball.
We should celebrate mediocrity because we are not alone.
Quote from: vu72 on January 30, 2023, 08:23:13 AM
While we all wish things were moving in a better direction, take heart! Things in other parts of the basketball world are not all roses either...that Drew kid, you know, the great coach formerly ours, had his team lose to Tarleton State(?) by 18 points and are now fully ensconced in the middle of the pack in the WAC, a conferenced ranked two spots worse than the Valley by Sagarin. Stuff happens! It's college basketball.
Not so fast there, 72. That Drew kid's team is currently ranked 119 in the NET ratings, 169 spots ahead of Valpo's 288. The Tarleton State team you disparage is also ranked more than 100 places ahead of VU at 173. Plus, the WAC conference is currently ranked in 11th place in the conference NET ratings, while the MVC is ranked in 15th place. In fact, 12 teams in the WAC have higher NET ratings than Valpo. Finally, GCU might be in the middle of their conference standings, but they are only 2 games out of first place.
It is so easy to be negative....what is so bad about giving credit where credit is due? I sometimes wonder if some people have ever seen a glass half full. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Ingetbit 64, we also have to be realistic. Let's see what happens in the next few games.
Valpopal always backing up with facts versus broad statements. Love it.
Quote from: valpopal on January 30, 2023, 09:45:48 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 30, 2023, 08:23:13 AM
While we all wish things were moving in a better direction, take heart! Things in other parts of the basketball world are not all roses either...that Drew kid, you know, the great coach formerly ours, had his team lose to Tarleton State(?) by 18 points and are now fully ensconced in the middle of the pack in the WAC, a conferenced ranked two spots worse than the Valley by Sagarin. Stuff happens! It's college basketball.
Not so fast there, 72. That Drew kid's team is currently ranked 119 in the NET ratings, 169 spots ahead of Valpo's 288. The Tarleton State team you disparage is also ranked more than 100 places ahead of VU at 173. Plus, the WAC conference is currently ranked in 11th place in the conference NET ratings, while the MVC is ranked in 15th place. In fact, 12 teams in the WAC have higher NET ratings than Valpo. Finally, GCU might be in the middle of their conference standings, but they are only 2 games out of first place.
Tarleton State is where Aggies go when they can't get into the main Texas A&M campus :). There are now 4 Texas A&M programs in D-1: Texas A&M, Texas A&M - Corpus Christi, Tarleton State, and Texas A&M - Commerce
Quote from: vu72 on January 30, 2023, 08:23:13 AM
To wit, Loyola Chicago, with their beautiful practice facility overlooking Lake Michigan, are 1-7 and now sit in last place in a conference just slightly better than our Valley.
The Loyola Chicago situation illustrates that leveraging a storybook season into sustained excellence is possible but never easy. The year after their 2018 Final 4 run, Loyola lost in the first round of the NIT. The next year, they lost to Valpo in the MVC quarterfinals, and then COVID hit, but it's fair to assume that an NIT bid would've awaited them. However, they reached the Sweet Sixteen in 2021, and again made the NCAA tourney last year (opening round loss to Ohio State). And this season they're struggling after losing a ton of seniors.
In other words, Loyola's post-Final 4 record is looking like a slightly elevated version of VU's post-Sweet 16 record. And FWIW, Loyola's
pre-Final 4 record looks remarkably similar to VU's pre-Sweet 16 record as well. (Check it all out here: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/loyola-il/2023.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/loyola-il/2023.html))
Whether this means anything to Valpo today, I'm not sure, because the NCAA tourney looks a gazillion miles away. But it does show that mid majors whose names aren't Gonzaga can still be relevant in the current NCAA environment.
St. Peters's
Quote from: David81 on January 31, 2023, 10:06:09 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 30, 2023, 08:23:13 AM
To wit, Loyola Chicago, with their beautiful practice facility overlooking Lake Michigan, are 1-7 and now sit in last place in a conference just slightly better than our Valley.
The Loyola Chicago situation illustrates that leveraging a storybook season into sustained excellence is possible but never easy. The year after their 2018 Final 4 run, Loyola lost in the first round of the NIT. The next year, they lost to Valpo in the MVC quarterfinals, and then COVID hit, but it's fair to assume that an NIT bid would've awaited them. However, they reached the Sweet Sixteen in 2021, and again made the NCAA tourney last year (opening round loss to Ohio State). And this season they're struggling after losing a ton of seniors.
In other words, Loyola's post-Final 4 record is looking like a slightly elevated version of VU's post-Sweet 16 record. And FWIW, Loyola's pre-Final 4 record looks remarkably similar to VU's pre-Sweet 16 record as well. (Check it all out here: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/loyola-il/2023.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/loyola-il/2023.html))
Whether this means anything to Valpo today, I'm not sure, because the NCAA tourney looks a gazillion miles away. But it does show that mid majors whose names aren't Gonzaga can still be relevant in the current NCAA environment.
Valpo and Loyola are 2 of an untold number of D-1 programs that have experienced wild swings in their degree of success over time. In it's 45-year D-1 history Valpo has gone from bad, to good, to great, to good, and now bad again. At some point the program will pick up steam and head north again. It's practically guaranteed. Knowing that doesn't make where we're at presently any less painful, but I do think that history clearly says that Valpo needs to stay the course. The last thing the administration should do is make a kneejeck decision to move to a lower conference or go D-3, as some have suggested. We will pull out of this tail spin. It may be 5 years from now, 10 years from now, or whenever, but it will happen. If we don't benefit from it, the next generation of Valpo fans will.
Well said, wh. It also appears that Butler is a little over its head in the Big East. Even though they had some terrific clubs and a few real good years, since then they have been very mediocre. And now they still suffer after going back to Thad Motta. One of the reasons he left OSU was he didn't particularly enjoy the recruiting game any longer as in the past. We'll see how their fan base reacts after this season.
wh, 64 - please note that Butler and Loyola have had decisively better success than Valpo in the past 50 years. wh, I guess I agree to stay the course, but are you also inferring that a coaching change is not required. I hope not.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 31, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
St. Peters's
usc4valpo, given that St. Peter's is now sitting at 9-12 after its head coach left and most of its top players entered the transfer portal soon after their Cinderella run ended last spring, I'm not sure if that's a "for" or "against" vote for the promise of mid majors to be relevant. :P
I get it, but it was an incredible run and they beat mighty Purdue where their coach took a nap instead of adjusting their defense.
how about SFA?
Quote from: valpo64 on January 31, 2023, 02:01:18 PM
Well said, wh. It also appears that Butler is a little over its head in the Big East. Even though they had some terrific clubs and a few real good years, since then they have been very mediocre. And now they still suffer after going back to Thad Motta. One of the reasons he left OSU was he didn't particularly enjoy the recruiting game any longer as in the past. We'll see how their fan base reacts after this season.
Verbal Commits: Butler 2024
Two stars: 1
Three stars: 1
Four stars: 1
https://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/butler
Verbal Commits: Valpo 2024
Two Stars: 5
Three stars: 0
Four stars: 0
https://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/valparaiso
https://twitter.com/ButlerMBB/status/1619812085457911808
What is your definition of success? If you take Gonzaga they have stayed in an average conference and compiled wins. Would they be a more successful team in the Mountain West, Pac 10? A few early March Madness duds, but overall sustained success. 20 plus wins, S 16's, final fours. Or is success, the Davidson's, Iona, Nevada, VCU, SFA, Richmond, St. Bon, Dayton, San Diego State, Wofford, St. Marys. I am on the Fence with Butler, Loyola and a handful of MAC teams to have sustained success beyond 5, 6 years. St. Peters, George Mason outlier. I think success has more to do the with the team than the conference. Beating a dead horse, but Valpo defeated Drake by 20, Murray by 36 points (neutral), @Murray, MSU 4 times (3 blowouts), Indiana State 2 x's while in the Horizon. Only blemish 1 loss at Evansville. 9-1 versus MVC the 5 or 6 years in the Horizon before the switch.
Ok, but in the words of Janet Jackson, what have you done for me lately? The sweet 16 was 25 years ago, and Valpo hasn't won a tournament game since then.
Quote from: valpo64 on January 31, 2023, 02:01:18 PM
Well said, wh. It also appears that Butler is a little over its head in the Big East. Even though they had some terrific clubs and a few real good years, since then they have been very mediocre. And now they still suffer after going back to Thad Motta. One of the reasons he left OSU was he didn't particularly enjoy the recruiting game any longer as in the past. We'll see how their fan base reacts after this season.
Thad Matta - former Ohio State head coach, IU Asst AD, former & current Butler head coach, former Xavier head coach
Dick Motta - former Chicago Bulls, Dallas Mavericks, Sacramento Kings, Washington Bullets, Denver Nuggets head coach, former Weber State head coach
I still think Gonzaga, generally, is not a path that is able to be replicated or many others would have done it. The fact that they are still the go-to is a tell. However, I do think one thing they did right is they stayed put. Both Loyola and Butler probably jumped conferences too quick vs staying where they would and establishing themselves. It's one thing to take out people from an upper conference on occasion or even regularly and it's another to be in that conference playing against them nightly when the coaches are actually preparing for you.
I think Valpo should not move conferences at all and I think that we are in a downturn but much like WH I don't believe it's forever. There are always gong to be other schools to point at who are doing something "better" in any given moment and say "why not us" but again, if it all was so replicable it would happen more often and with more consistency. Also, I think it's good to remember that no matter how big of a conference you're in, no one likes being the bottom of the barrel. Even if you're stadium is packed or your opponents are quality or you get to beat up on teams in pre-conference.
Questions and comments:
1. Is going to a Valpo basketball game a good entertaining experience these days? Many schools have really kicked up the enthusiasm. What is Valpo currently doing for that?
2. Valpo should stay in the MVC. Valpo needs to make a change to be successful in the MVC and not just assume it is a matter of time.
3. Valpo needs to quit being conservative and frugal on their decision making and do what's right for success in the basketball program, if that is truly an aspiration or objective which I am truly uncertain of.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 01, 2023, 09:58:05 AM
Questions and comments:
1. Is going to a Valpo basketball game a good entertaining experience these days? Many schools have really kicked up the enthusiasm. What is Valpo currently doing for that?
2. Valpo should stay in the MVC. Valpo needs to make a change to be successful in the MVC and not just assume it is a matter of time.
3. Valpo needs to quit being conservative and frugal on their decision making and do what's right for success in the basketball program, if that is truly an aspiration or objective which I am truly uncertain of.
Funny you brought this up. Just caught up on some casual reading and stumbled on this....
https://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2023/01/31/missouri-state-basketball-experience-wyatt-wheeler-attendance-column-kyle-moats-dana-ford-clif-smart/69830114007/
Perhaps the fans perception of a sinking feeling at the ARC with Pups who can't see, a band that barely shows and a team that's not great isn't just felt at Valpo.....
But is the University trying??? Last week I noticed the student section was on their feet for almost the entire game! Something I have not noticed in quite some time. Attendance numbers were slightly higher and now this.....
https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2022-23/21812/valpo-to-welcome-pacers-power-pack-on-feb-4/
The late 90's early 00's and mid teens were great times to be Crusader fan's!!! I truly hope the University can get back there again real soon!
Thanks for sharing the well-written article on Missouri State.
One quote jumped out at me: "There was hardly any reason to stay, outside of school pride, but that was hard to come by during a mediocre performance that still eked out a win."
The ARC was rocking when the team was winning. With a few exceptions, the Drew-coached teams always showed energy, hustle and exhibited good basketball IQ. You could always count on a good set play coming out of a break - it may not be successful or perhaps was taken away by the opposition, yet it was fun to watch. Beyond that, in the "glory years" there was a sense that the team could come back in any game in the ARC, and in some years they almost went undefeated at home.
From a distance, the malaise at Missouri State (and seemingly at Valpo) is that there have been too many mediocre performances, both in wins and the now-frequent losses. Keep winning, playing good basketball, and much of the game day atmosphere will improve.
excellent response and many thanks! good to see Valpo trying to boost the basketball atmosphere
Great article on the Missouri State situation. Our solution is quite simple although hard to produce...WINNING SOLVES MOST EVERYTHING. We surely are not alone with our b-ball problems. I heard the other night that Fordham, I think they are in the A-10 or A-Sun(?), ,has only reached a double bye level of their post-season tourney 5 times in their 23 year history of being in the League. And we think we have problems. Also, it would be interesting to see what some of us would comment if our situation was like Evansville's demise. And its hard to believe that they lead the MVC in home attendance this year, and they are usually at or near the top every year.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 02, 2023, 10:15:04 AMGreat article on the Missouri State situation. Our solution is quite simple although hard to produce...WINNING SOLVES MOST EVERYTHING. We surely are not alone with our b-ball problems. I heard the other night that Fordham, I think they are in the A-10 or A-Sun(?), ,has only reached a double bye level of their post-season tourney 5 times in their 23 year history of being in the League. And we think we have problems. Also, it would be interesting to see what some of us would comment if our situation was like Evansville's demise. And its hard to believe that they lead the MVC in home attendance this year, and they are usually at or near the top every year.
Fordham is in the A10 and having their first pretty good year in about 30 years.
I think that the last good program there was when Digger Phelps was there before he moved to Notre Dame.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2023, 07:25:02 PMI think that the last good program there was when Digger Phelps was there before he moved to Notre Dame.
Early 90's with Nick Macarchuk had some good teams.