I'm seeing a couple of tweets about this that suggest the tweeter is deeply perturbed about the design. Has anyone seen it yet and can they fill me in?
Curious in twitterland
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/402511_10150524884963632_55541153631_8647676_1536929504_n.jpg)
From the VU Facebook page
That won?! You've got to be kidding me. Completely unfunnny and the design looks like it was done by a child.
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 19, 2012, 01:30:05 PM
That won?! You've got to be kidding me. Completely unfunnny and the design looks like it was done by a child.
You should have seen ALL of the entries. There were plenty much worse than that. Still, I wouldn't wear it unless I got it for free. I'm sticking w/ a black "Beat Butler" t-shirt I snagged in Dayton.
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 19, 2012, 01:30:05 PM
That won?! You've got to be kidding me. Completely unfunnny and the design looks like it was done by a child.
Probably right. An 18 year old! ;)
These are awful!
OK, not all that funny, but hardly as offensive as I was led to believe. I think Mr. PantherU was pulling my leg a bit.
Thanks ;)
I kinda wish the options were available online to students, faculty, and fans to vote on. I don't know who voted on this design, but it could have been better.
I think there was a vote/competition at the beginning of the season. But, yeah this design is pretty awful and it is a little disappointing that they are putting these out to the public.
The competition was held on Facebook. It turned into a popularity contest instead of a tshirt contest. People who had entered their designs just had their friends "like" the photo. That is how this shirt won. The person who entered it had many of their friends and family vote so he could win the free semester of textbook.
So it was the 'free textbooks' perk that screwed up this competition? That's always good to see happen.
Now that I know "how the sausage was made", I can certainly agree that this is embarrassing.
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
A definite sign of a different administration, and apparently the oversight of what the Valparaizone does isn't as monitored as what the VU Cru ever did.
Wow. That's...not good. I won't say it's awful, but I certainly wouldn't buy one. If it were free...nah!
I think this contest was run by students and was the first of its kind? There was a set of rules and a deadline for submissions and then they didn't make some of the entrees (their friends?) follow the rules. better luck next time...
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
I believe this was an Alan "I don't support athletics as the only things at Valparaiso" Harre and Bill Steinbrecher issue. They didn't really like that the students weren't just sitting there like those in chairbacks sitting quietly enjoying the game, or cheering to G-rated chants.
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
Personally, I've actually been to plenty of different sporting events that have gone there. I don't know where kids these days are learning "Fanology 101," but there seems to be more and more people interested in taunting opponents/referees than cheering for their own team.
In fact, while I wasn't close enough to hear for sure, at times on Sunday I thought our student section was saying something worse, wait for it........
the F word! GASP! Again, I don't know for sure, but it sounded either like suck or... well, you get it. Tough to tell w/out everyone in unison.
a lot of people seem pretty excited to get their hands on the shirt. Personally, the message on the front isn't offensive to me, I just think it is a stupid design and I'm a little embarrassed that this is the best our students could come up with. Love the original idea, just think the final product is a stinker.
Quote from: valporun on January 20, 2012, 10:41:37 PM
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
I believe this was an Alan "I don't support athletics as the only things at Valparaiso" Harre and Bill Steinbrecher issue. They didn't really like that the students weren't just sitting there like those in chairbacks sitting quietly enjoying the game, or cheering to G-rated chants.
I take strong offense to your snide remark about the "chairbacks". I have been sitting there since the ARC was built, and go back as far as Hilltop Gym before that( and I didn't even go to VU) - but I digress. There are many of us that cheer loudly and often. Sure , we don't stand during the entire game like the students do, but we aren't students, either.
What I do , though, is attend EVERY game, and not many students can say that. Enough with the chairback dissing.
Quote from: valpospartan on January 21, 2012, 06:19:01 PMSure , we don't stand during the entire game like the students do, but we aren't students, either.
What I do , though, is attend EVERY game, and not many students can say that. Enough with the chairback dissing.
How are you at making balloon hats?
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PMQuote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AMI am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
I could hear over the tv broadcast, and pretty clearly, "you suck" during the hey song at the game today at uic. Also several other times I heard "Valpo sucks" randomly during the game.
Compared with other games I've been at, as well as outbursts from visiting fans at our home games, I think our student section is pretty tame....and I appreciate that.
Quote from: letsgovu on January 21, 2012, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PMQuote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AMI am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
I could hear over the tv broadcast, and pretty clearly, "you suck" during the hey song at the game today at uic. Also several other times I heard "Valpo sucks" randomly during the game.
Compared with other games I've been at, as well as outbursts from visiting fans at our home games, I think our student section is pretty tame....and I appreciate that.
at least in all the times we've played clearly superior teams, we don't chant "overrated" like the nd students were at the end of their game. when you're 11-8 and playing a team that's 20-0, you've got no room to chant something like that. is it any wonder why nd is hated by most non-catholics and those outside south bend? arrogance is not something to be appreciated.
The strange thing in relating to your statement. ND probably has more fans outside their geographic area than any other college team in the country. Also there are multitudes of non-catholics that love ND. You don't get your own national TV contract for your football team without fans outside your geographic area. The bandwagon catholic and non-catholic fans alike are paying attention now to their beloved Fighting Irish basketball team all over the world.
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
In contrast, I have heard it at EVERY college basketball game I have been to: TCU games, SMU games, University of Texas games, Baylor, Valpo, WIU, etc. Maybe you just don't understand the chant when it is going on lol. Some schools even continue the 'you suck' portion with a 'we're going to kick the hell out of you, and you, and you, and you, and you,' while pointing to each of the players on the court...
From the Butler board: about Butler hangover and why Valpo benefits from it.
If anyone looked hungover on Sunday it was Youngstown. Did they meet up with Pat McAfee in the Ripple Saturday night?
funny, very funny.....McAfee couldn't beat up a Bulldog with Payton Manning's neck brace.
Quote from: valpotx on January 24, 2012, 03:01:16 AM
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 20, 2012, 01:59:52 AM
I am surprised that this will be moving forward. When I was in school, the administration made such a fuss about us yelling 'you suck' during The Hey Song at the breaks like most colleges do, that I can't believe those are in the bookstore.
VU is the only place that I heard that - and yes I have been to other school's basketball games.
In contrast, I have heard it at EVERY college basketball game I have been to: TCU games, SMU games, University of Texas games, Baylor, Valpo, WIU, etc. Maybe you just don't understand the chant when it is going on lol. Some schools even continue the 'you suck' portion with a 'we're going to kick the hell out of you, and you, and you, and you, and you,' while pointing to each of the players on the court...
Full disclosure - I heard it from the Northwestern students yesterday vs. Purdue.
Apparently, in spite of the questionable design, the t-shirts must be selling! I just clicked on the t-shirt banner on the front page of the Valpo website and found "back ordered" next to availability! Not near a sellout yet however!
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2012, 11:24:17 AM
Apparently, in spite of the questionable design, the t-shirts must be selling! I just clicked on the t-shirt banner on the front page of the Valpo website and found "back ordered" next to availability! Not near a sellout yet however!
It only means someone guessed wrong at the exact number of demand. Who knows how many they originally ordered?
I'd be embarassed, just as many of you are. This is amateur, and makes you look bad.
I wonder if BU gets a royalty? With that in mind; sell all you want... it serves two purposes from that perspective: Embarassing the opponent, and it makes us money!
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2012, 11:24:17 AM
I just clicked on the t-shirt banner on the front page of the Valpo website and found "back ordered" next to availability!
Maybe "back ordered" means people are requesting only the back of the shirts because the fronts look so damn tacky! ;)
I doubt that Butler gets a cut of the profits, but you never know
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/198/010/tysonreaction.gif)
People actually ordered these shirts? C'mon man...you gotta be kidding me.
(This video was just taken on my webcam)
Apparently the opinions expressed on this board bear some weight! ??? The new and "revised" Valpo-Butler T-shirt is now available for sale! ;)
http://www.bkstr.com/ProductDisplay/10001-10040-14653-68663005-1?demoKey=d (http://www.bkstr.com/ProductDisplay/10001-10040-14653-68663005-1?demoKey=d)
What changed?
It looks the same to me as well. My GF actually ordered this for me, very funny. She knows nothing about Valpo other than me watching the games, and her playing on her iPad while I do so. I guess the main take away she has gotten in our 1 1/2 years together is that Butler is evil, except when winning games to give us/rest of conference money :)
I didn't see any different in the design, but the print looks smaller, like the design looks smaller compared to the first one, but then I'd rather see the shirt on the fake body from the bookstore, rather than just flattened out, and looking like it was scanned over or whatever.
This was on a couple of facebook posts a few days ago. Someone said the date was moved. I think that was about it.
not sure why that small change would need such fanfare, perhaps they sold out of the original 10 they printed and wanted to see if they could sell 1 or 2 more.
The new design has removed the reference to the game vs. Butler because Butler threatened legal action for trademark violation. Apparently they have nothing better to do. Valpo even offered to pay royalties, but Butler declined. The original order was 100 shirts and they sold out in less than 2 days. They then took pre-orders and had 60 people pay to be on a waitlist for the next batch. Just because none of you have any sense of humor doesn't mean the rest of the world can't have some fun. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
Quote from: crusaderguy08 on February 17, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
The new design has removed the reference to the game vs. Butler because Butler threatened legal action for trademark violation. Apparently they have nothing better to do. Valpo even offered to pay royalties, but Butler declined. The original order was 100 shirts and they sold out in less than 2 days. They then took pre-orders and had 60 people pay to be on a waitlist for the next batch. Just because none of you have any sense of humor doesn't mean the rest of the world can't have some fun. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
The link that vu72 posted still has the reference on it, yet he stated that it had changed. I looked and didn't see any changes.
I thought the humor was sophomoric at best, but it was humorous and basically harmless. I was simply confused at the assertion that the design had been changed. If you could post a link to the new design, that might clear it up for me.
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 17, 2012, 11:05:52 PM
Quote from: crusaderguy08 on February 17, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
The new design has removed the reference to the game vs. Butler because Butler threatened legal action for trademark violation. Apparently they have nothing better to do. Valpo even offered to pay royalties, but Butler declined. The original order was 100 shirts and they sold out in less than 2 days. They then took pre-orders and had 60 people pay to be on a waitlist for the next batch. Just because none of you have any sense of humor doesn't mean the rest of the world can't have some fun. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
The link that vu72 posted still has the reference on it, yet he stated that it had changed. I looked and didn't see any changes.
I thought the humor was sophomoric at best, but it was humorous and basically harmless. I was simply confused at the assertion that the design had been changed. If you could post a link to the new design, that might clear it up for me.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l285/cubsrule24/butlershirt.jpg)
Quote from: crusaderguy08 on February 17, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
The new design has removed the reference to the game vs. Butler because Butler threatened legal action for trademark violation. Apparently they have nothing better to do. Valpo even offered to pay royalties, but Butler declined. The original order was 100 shirts and they sold out in less than 2 days. They then took pre-orders and had 60 people pay to be on a waitlist for the next batch. Just because none of you have any sense of humor doesn't mean the rest of the world can't have some fun. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
Butler should feel flattered that anyone still cares enough about their fading men's basketball program to create a Beat Butler T-shirt. Instead, they threaten legal action for trademark infringement? What a bunch of knuckleheads. I now officially love the T-shirts and will be purchasing them this week for the entire wh clan to wear at the game (assuming they have 2X for my rather large body ;)).
Quote from: wh on February 18, 2012, 03:17:06 PMQuote from: crusaderguy08 on February 17, 2012, 08:55:35 PMThe new design has removed the reference to the game vs. Butler because Butler threatened legal action for trademark violation. Apparently they have nothing better to do. Valpo even offered to pay royalties, but Butler declined. The original order was 100 shirts and they sold out in less than 2 days. They then took pre-orders and had 60 people pay to be on a waitlist for the next batch. Just because none of you have any sense of humor doesn't mean the rest of the world can't have some fun. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
Butler should feel flattered that anyone still cares enough about their fading men's basketball program to create a Beat Butler T-shirt. Instead, they threaten legal action for trademark infringement? What a bunch of knuckleheads. I now officially love the T-shirts and will be purchasing them this week for the entire wh clan to wear at the game (assuming they have 2X for my rather large body ;)).
"Fading" mens basketball program? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No clue. :crazy:
Quote from: Nildogg on February 18, 2012, 04:07:16 PM
Quote from: wh on February 18, 2012, 03:17:06 PMQuote from: crusaderguy08 on February 17, 2012, 08:55:35 PMThe new design has removed the reference to the game vs. Butler because Butler threatened legal action for trademark violation. Apparently they have nothing better to do. Valpo even offered to pay royalties, but Butler declined. The original order was 100 shirts and they sold out in less than 2 days. They then took pre-orders and had 60 people pay to be on a waitlist for the next batch. Just because none of you have any sense of humor doesn't mean the rest of the world can't have some fun. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
Butler should feel flattered that anyone still cares enough about their fading men's basketball program to create a Beat Butler T-shirt. Instead, they threaten legal action for trademark infringement? What a bunch of knuckleheads. I now officially love the T-shirts and will be purchasing them this week for the entire wh clan to wear at the game (assuming they have 2X for my rather large body ;)).
"Fading" mens basketball program? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No clue. :crazy:
Yes, I think he has overstated his case here. BU is not as good as previous years (obviously), but to say you guys are fading is a bit much.
That said, why not head back to your board to post about Butler hoops? Seems like you are just here to flame. Obviously you are concerned about Valpo's rise or you wouldn't be skulking around this board. Good bye----YOU are the weakest link!
I enjoy following the pulse of our conference foe's almost as much as reading our own board. Actually, the stupidity over there by some people has me enjoying the other sites a bit more.
And sorry if you think I am here to flame, I just like to respond to comments that are relative to my interests... (Butler).
You yourself agreed with my comment.
Butler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo. I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!
Oh. They removed the name Butler? That was the difference?
Having processed all this for a half-second, I'm going to go out on a limb and deduce the vu72 was being sarcastic when he posted that there was a brand new design. The difference is very subtle.
Call me late to the party if the shoe fits ;)
NilDogg, rest assured some of us figured out a week ago you weren't flaming anybody. 03, NilDogg fits milldew72's definition of an unlikeable fan -- the very kind he could appreciate. NilDogg is just engaging in harmless trash talk, something that is a staple of fan message boards.
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 18, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
Oh. They removed the name Butler? That was the difference?
Having processed all this for a half-second, I'm going to go out on a limb and deduce the vu72 was being sarcastic when he posted that there was a brand new design. The difference is very subtle.
Call me late to the party if the shoe fits ;)
NilDogg, rest assured some of us figured out a week ago you weren't flaming anybody. 03, NilDogg fits milldew72's definition of an unlikeable fan -- the very kind he could appreciate. NilDogg is just engaging in harmless trash talk, something that is a staple of fan message boards.
thanks ref ;)
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 18, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
Oh. They removed the name Butler? That was the difference?
Having processed all this for a half-second, I'm going to go out on a limb and deduce the vu72 was being sarcastic when he posted that there was a brand new design. The difference is very subtle.
Call me late to the party if the shoe fits ;)
NilDogg, rest assured some of us figured out a week ago you weren't flaming anybody. 03, NilDogg fits milldew72's definition of an unlikeable fan -- the very kind he could appreciate. NilDogg is just engaging in harmless trash talk, something that is a staple of fan message boards.
Alright Nil, if you have Jim's endorsement, you're a-ok in my book :)
Quote from: Nildogg on February 18, 2012, 04:56:39 PMButler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo. I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!
I hope and pray that Butler improves to the level you indicate along with all the other Horizon League teams. A rising tide lifts all boats. If you are in the top 25 next year then I expect that we will be right there with you. I know that you have some very good players coming in, but you lose your team leader, the guy who has played by far the most minutes on your team dishing out over 5 assists per game and your leading defensive rebounder. Nored will not be that easily replaced, even if you bring in a comparable player there will be acclimation time. Valpo on the other hand returns all scholarship players and adds two bigs. Capobianco will prosper having the year to work with Roger Powell and Fernandez will have opportunities to contribute as well. Next years Valpo squad, already a
proven commodity, has the talent and coaching required to improve significantly. Two bids from the league would be great for the conference.
Let nildogg get excited. Can you imagine having two new guys who shoots 3's as well as Ryan (40.6%) or Wil (41.5%) or Richie (42.9%) !! I know how much fun it is to count on a freshman! Wow, that will certainly get them to the top 25! :o Just behind us. ;D
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2012, 02:53:36 PM
Let nildogg get excited. Can you imagine having two new guys who shoots 3's as well as Ryan (40.6%) or Wil (41.5%) or Richie (42.9%) !! I know how much fun it is to count on a freshman! Wow, that will certainly get them to the top 25! :o Just behind us. ;D
I'd love to see Valpo in the top 25 next year. As FWalum points out, that would be a great thing for the Horizon.
I also think Butler will bounce back next year, but Valpo deserves credit for all they've accomplished this year and are certainly in the driver's seat to earn the NCAA tourney bid. Adding a talented and hard-working big in Capobianco next year certainly cements them as the pre-season favorite in my book.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 19, 2012, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2012, 02:53:36 PM
Let nildogg get excited. Can you imagine having two new guys who shoots 3's as well as Ryan (40.6%) or Wil (41.5%) or Richie (42.9%) !! I know how much fun it is to count on a freshman! Wow, that will certainly get them to the top 25! :o Just behind us. ;D
I'd love to see Valpo in the top 25 next year. As FWalum points out, that would be a great thing for the Horizon.
I also think Butler will bounce back next year, but Valpo deserves credit for all they've accomplished this year and are certainly in the driver's seat to earn the NCAA tourney bid. Adding a talented and hard-working big in Capobianco next year certainly cements them as the pre-season favorite in my book.
Thanks haze for a very fair and thoughtful comment. We all want the conference to be better but other than Valpo and Butler I'm wondering about the other members and their loses to graduation (CSU, YSU, Milwaukee etc.). With Bobby coming in we add the depth we currently are missing when Kevin is out. Vashil is a question mark, and will undoubtedly play like a "freshman" to start the year. He will add shot blocking which we currently don't have. Add another year to Vucic's improving game and we will be pretty solid up front and clearly allow Ryan to finally play the 3 where is will be even more effective in my opinion. Should be a fun year and fun battle with Butler. I expect plenty of "battle" from the bulldogs yet this season!
Totally agree, vu72. FWIW, I hope that Valpo comes out of the gates next year playing like they're a top 25 team or a team that can earn at-large consideration. No one over here cares that Lazerus writes off every season in November by proclaiming non-conference games "meaningless", but it offends the heck out of me. Until Horizon teams take the non-con season seriously, we'll continue to be a 1 bid league. Hopefully, Valpo changes that attitude next year.
Just for clarification of an earlier comment, Butler won't be relying of freshmen next season as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers. They do lose Ron Nored, but his spot is filled by 2nd team All-SEC player Rotnei Clarke who has been practicing with the team this year. If they do need help from the freshman class, it will likely be from Kellen Dunham, who has a shot at being this year's Mr. Basketball. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/index (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/index) None of this is to downplay what Valpo may be next year, but just explaining why Butler fans are also excited.
Just got this tweet with Dunham's season stats:
Kellen Dunham Season Stats (21 GMs): 30.8 pts (53% FG, 45% 3PT, 93% FT) 5 rbs, 1.8 asts, 1.6 stls. He's 23 pts away from 1800 career pts.
Should be Mr. Basketball, but going up against MSU recruit Gary Harris and IU recruit Yogi Ferrell make it extremely difficult for him. But all you guys from Northwest Indiana know all about the state politics when it comes to recognition for Mr. Basketball or Indiana All Star team.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 19, 2012, 08:00:55 PMJust for clarification of an earlier comment, Butler won't be relying of freshmen next season
Just for clarification, it was not I that said anything about relying on a freshman to fill Nored's spot, I am well aware of Clarke. I do know however, that it is rare for a new point to come in and not miss a beat from losing an integral part of the offense. I suspect that it will take a few games for Clarke to round into form with the rest of the team in game situations as I fully suspect that he will. Remember that this is still a replacement of an integral part and while Clarke should improve your outside shooting versus Nored we will be adding an additional dimension to our compliment of players as well. For the first time in who knows how long we will be able to have a true 4 and 5 on the floor at the same time.
FWalum ... I wasn't responding to you on the freshmen comment. Everything you've said is accurate and replacing Nored will be much harder than most Butler fans think. Also, I haven't said anything negative about Valpo or that I think Butler will be better than Valpo next year. I've only said that I think Butler will be good. For reference, it's OK for more than one team in the Horizon to be good. I thought we agreed on that point. :thumbsup:
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 19, 2012, 08:00:55 PM
Totally agree, vu72. FWIW, I hope that Valpo comes out of the gates next year playing like they're a top 25 team or a team that can earn at-large consideration. No one over here cares that Lazerus writes off every season in November by proclaiming non-conference games "meaningless", but it offends the heck out of me. Until Horizon teams take the non-con season seriously, we'll continue to be a 1 bid league. Hopefully, Valpo changes that attitude next year.
Just for clarification of an earlier comment, Butler won't be relying of freshmen next season as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers. They do lose Ron Nored, but his spot is filled by 2nd team All-SEC player Rotnei Clarke who has been practicing with the team this year. If they do need help from the freshman class, it will likely be from Kellen Dunham, who has a shot at being this year's Mr. Basketball. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/index (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/index) None of this is to downplay what Valpo may be next year, but just explaining why Butler fans are also excited.
My comment was based on many references on the Butler board about Clarke AND Dunham being the answer to the shooting woes. You will be very experienced and deep. I'm sure Dunham will see plenty of court time, particularly if the zones you will face are effective and you need to hit more 3's to break it. Remember, Butler is shooting 28.5% from the 3 versus our 35.3%. (I'm sure I didn't need to remind you of that! ;))
Quote from: vu72 on February 20, 2012, 08:25:41 AMRemember, Butler is shooting 28.5% from the 3 versus our 35.3%. (I'm sure I didn't need to remind you of that! ;))
Thanks for the reminder! :'(
But despite all of that, had Butler managed to score on its last possession in regulation way back on December 3, Valpo and Butler would be knotted at 11-5. That sure would make Friday's game a little more exciting, wouldn't it? Just goes to show how important every game is in this league ... even the first game of a long league schedule. Congrats again on winning the league. :clap:
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 20, 2012, 08:24:02 AM
FWalum ... I wasn't responding to you on the freshmen comment. Everything you've said is accurate and replacing Nored will be much harder than most Butler fans think. Also, I haven't said anything negative about Valpo or that I think Butler will be better than Valpo next year. I've only said that I think Butler will be good. For reference, it's OK for more than one team in the Horizon to be good. I thought we agreed on that point. :thumbsup:
Absolutely, I am with you. If I made it seem as if I thought you has said something negative it was not my intent.
Quote from: FWalum on February 19, 2012, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: Nildogg on February 18, 2012, 04:56:39 PMButler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo. I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!
I hope and pray that Butler improves to the level you indicate along with all the other Horizon League teams. A rising tide lifts all boats. If you are in the top 25 next year then I expect that we will be right there with you. I know that you have some very good players coming in, but you lose your team leader, the guy who has played by far the most minutes on your team dishing out over 5 assists per game and your leading defensive rebounder. Nored will not be that easily replaced, even if you bring in a comparable player there will be acclimation time. Valpo on the other hand returns all scholarship players and adds two bigs. Capobianco will prosper having the year to work with Roger Powell and Fernandez will have opportunities to contribute as well. Next years Valpo squad, already a proven commodity, has the talent and coaching required to improve significantly. Two bids from the league would be great for the conference.
If I may ask, how are you defining "proven commodity"?
IMO, all we have really done up to this point is show that VU can be consistently competitive in the HL--something that we've already shown in years past. If Valpo wins tomorrow night and secures the #1, then I would say we've learned not only how to win in the HL, but have also learned how to close, which is something we didn't do last year. That would point us in the direction of being a proven commodity for next year, IMO. But I would say right now its "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" this season, because in general VU has been at least competitive in the HL historically. Maybe this changes tomorrow night, but that is where we are now, aren't we?
Quote from: crusaderjoe on February 20, 2012, 10:21:22 AM
Quote from: FWalum on February 19, 2012, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: Nildogg on February 18, 2012, 04:56:39 PMButler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo. I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!
I hope and pray that Butler improves to the level you indicate along with all the other Horizon League teams. A rising tide lifts all boats. If you are in the top 25 next year then I expect that we will be right there with you. I know that you have some very good players coming in, but you lose your team leader, the guy who has played by far the most minutes on your team dishing out over 5 assists per game and your leading defensive rebounder. Nored will not be that easily replaced, even if you bring in a comparable player there will be acclimation time. Valpo on the other hand returns all scholarship players and adds two bigs. Capobianco will prosper having the year to work with Roger Powell and Fernandez will have opportunities to contribute as well. Next years Valpo squad, already a proven commodity, has the talent and coaching required to improve significantly. Two bids from the league would be great for the conference.
If I may ask, how are you defining "proven commodity"?
IMO, all we have really done up to this point is show that VU can be consistently competitive in the HL--something that we've already shown in years past. If Valpo wins tomorrow night and secures the #1, then I would say we've learned not only how to win in the HL, but have also learned how to close, which is something we didn't do last year. That would point us in the direction of being a proven commodity for next year, IMO. But I would say right now its "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" this season, because in general VU has been at least competitive in the HL historically. Maybe this changes tomorrow night, but that is where we are now, aren't we?
Alright, so maybe I am jumping the gun slightly, but I think that most would agree that given the preseason rankings VU has proven that this group of players and coaches are a top tier Horizon League team. While we have been competitive in the past, this years team appears ready to take the next step to being a double bye team and perhaps regular season conference champs this year and next. The team should remain completely intact and therefore based upon this years performance will be a proven commodity next year. Butler, Milwaukee, Cleveland State and Detroit all lose significant players off their rosters. Will there replacements perform as well or better? We shouldn't have to ask that question next year, we lose no significant cog in our machine.
Nored is no doubt a leader, but if you look at the numbers, BU may be losing the least, and gaining the most.
Look forward to shocking at least you next year. ;)