I write this message knowing full well that posting these dissenting opinions may not be popular and TPTB (the powers that be) will likely up their security of my messages. It needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
1) "When you foreclose on a home, you gotta clean house." It's obvious that some trash needs to be taken to the curb. As valporun suggested in another thread, maybe Kirby is problem numero uno? When you watch things unfold, it's pretty obvious that there is dissension in the ranks and it makes you wonder who is causing the mutiny. We need to strip all players of their scholarships and remove the assistant coaches...clearly they are not playing for Keith and we have to have the guts to remove the problems. Let Keith start with a clean slate without a bunch of millstones around his neck.
2) "Money talks" Cut funding to the women's program by 75%. No play, no pay. Take that money and funnel it into the men's program. Maybe if the ladies didn't have so many warm-ups and other gear, trips out of country, lockerooms, etc, they would regain the hunger they need to be a legit D1 contender. And before some pencil-pusher steps in screaming "Title IX! Title IX!" I'm already thinking that we cut funding to men's track (or one of the other less important sports) to even things out.
3) "If you build it, don't let them play" Use the new hospital site to build a brand spanking new ARC (funded in part by the newfound money from the ladies program, perhaps?)...then, make it a men's basketball ONLY facility. Make the Lady 'Saders EARN the right to play in the ARCII. Use the old ARC main gym as a space for new dorms or a foreign students rec center. Girls can still use hilltop. When they are playing home games in Hilltop or one of the local high schools, do you think it might motivate them to get this program turned around? Sho 'nuff!
If we take these drastic measures, I seriously believe our Lady 'Saders will be an NCAA tourney team in short order. Keith has been discouraged by the toxic mix on the squad, but with new players, new assistant coaches, and a new hunger things will turn around. What say you VU fans?? Do we have the guts to go for the glory??
Back to your regularly scheduled newspeak :-X
Ok, you cannot just cut all over your players. You would not be able to field a team at all for a year or two. The best thing to do at this point is to bring in a brand new coaching staff. Anyone remember Coach Steve Bruce from a couple of years ago when the program was doing very well? He could be a good person to bring back into the program. He knows what Valpo is all about and has had success in building a program at IUSB. He has taken them from being 8-22 in 2006 to being 21-9 this past season, also raising the team GPA from 2.46 to 3.42 (info via IUSB athletics site). Just throwing this possibility out there.
Quote from: valpo4life on January 20, 2012, 04:22:31 PM
Ok, you cannot just cut all over your players. You would not be able to field a team at all for a year or two. The best thing to do at this point is to bring in a brand new coaching staff. Anyone remember Coach Steve Bruce from a couple of years ago when the program was doing very well? He could be a good person to bring back into the program. He knows what Valpo is all about and has had success in building a program at IUSB. He has taken them from being 8-22 in 2006 to being 21-9 this past season, also raising the team GPA from 2.46 to 3.42 (info via IUSB athletics site). Just throwing this possibility out there.
Sure, you could, if you recruited 12 new players.
Steve Bruce sounds like a great fit for the associate head coach role under Keith.
Good thoughts!
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
I write this message knowing full well that posting these dissenting opinions may not be popular and TPTB (the powers that be) will likely up their security of my messages. It needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
1) "When you foreclose on a home, you gotta clean house." It's obvious that some trash needs to be taken to the curb. As valporun suggested in another thread, maybe Kirby is problem numero uno? When you watch things unfold, it's pretty obvious that there is dissension in the ranks and it makes you wonder who is causing the mutiny. We need to strip all players of their scholarships and remove the assistant coaches...clearly they are not playing for Keith and we have to have the guts to remove the problems. Let Keith start with a clean slate without a bunch of millstones around his neck.
2) "Money talks" Cut funding to the women's program by 75%. No play, no pay. Take that money and funnel it into the men's program. Maybe if the ladies didn't have so many warm-ups and other gear, trips out of country, lockerooms, etc, they would regain the hunger they need to be a legit D1 contender. And before some pencil-pusher steps in screaming "Title IX! Title IX!" I'm already thinking that we cut funding to men's track (or one of the other less important sports) to even things out.
3) "If you build it, don't let them play" Use the new hospital site to build a brand spanking new ARC (funded in part by the newfound money from the ladies program, perhaps?)...then, make it a men's basketball ONLY facility. Make the Lady 'Saders EARN the right to play in the ARCII. Use the old ARC main gym as a space for new dorms or a foreign students rec center. Girls can still use hilltop. When they are playing home games in Hilltop or one of the local high schools, do you think it might motivate them to get this program turned around? Sho 'nuff!
If we take these drastic measures, I seriously believe our Lady 'Saders will be an NCAA tourney team in short order. Keith has been discouraged by the toxic mix on the squad, but with new players, new assistant coaches, and a new hunger things will turn around. What say you VU fans?? Do we have the guts to go for the glory??
Back to your regularly scheduled newspeak :-X
OK, this is enough to break my personal boycott. Shouldn't need to say it, but here goes: is this worth our time? Is any institution on this planet going to drop even just one of these ideas. Interesting thoughts, but w/ all due respect, c'mon man
A bit drastic there C3. You won't recruite anyone at all, and you'll break the spirit of anyone that does come along as they'll no doubt, all be underclassmen. We have a really nice core group of players here. I would go as far to say though, of the players that haven't contributed this season, it's put up or shut up and move on time. We certainly need a change, but no university in their right mind would implement a fraction of what you suggest, as the reality is, most ladies basketball programs, unless they're elite, are a drag on the athletic budget. A lot can be done here, and should be looked at, at season's end, but it isn't fair to punish the players that are out there every night giving it all they have - they aren't the problem. As I've said many times, you can't possibly compete at this level with 6 - sometimes 7 players. I don't care how elite of a squad you are - it doesn't happen - not now - not ever!
Quote from: KL31NY on January 20, 2012, 04:29:18 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
I write this message knowing full well that posting these dissenting opinions may not be popular and TPTB (the powers that be) will likely up their security of my messages. It needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
1) "When you foreclose on a home, you gotta clean house." It's obvious that some trash needs to be taken to the curb. As valporun suggested in another thread, maybe Kirby is problem numero uno? When you watch things unfold, it's pretty obvious that there is dissension in the ranks and it makes you wonder who is causing the mutiny. We need to strip all players of their scholarships and remove the assistant coaches...clearly they are not playing for Keith and we have to have the guts to remove the problems. Let Keith start with a clean slate without a bunch of millstones around his neck.
2) "Money talks" Cut funding to the women's program by 75%. No play, no pay. Take that money and funnel it into the men's program. Maybe if the ladies didn't have so many warm-ups and other gear, trips out of country, lockerooms, etc, they would regain the hunger they need to be a legit D1 contender. And before some pencil-pusher steps in screaming "Title IX! Title IX!" I'm already thinking that we cut funding to men's track (or one of the other less important sports) to even things out.
3) "If you build it, don't let them play" Use the new hospital site to build a brand spanking new ARC (funded in part by the newfound money from the ladies program, perhaps?)...then, make it a men's basketball ONLY facility. Make the Lady 'Saders EARN the right to play in the ARCII. Use the old ARC main gym as a space for new dorms or a foreign students rec center. Girls can still use hilltop. When they are playing home games in Hilltop or one of the local high schools, do you think it might motivate them to get this program turned around? Sho 'nuff!
If we take these drastic measures, I seriously believe our Lady 'Saders will be an NCAA tourney team in short order. Keith has been discouraged by the toxic mix on the squad, but with new players, new assistant coaches, and a new hunger things will turn around. What say you VU fans?? Do we have the guts to go for the glory??
Back to your regularly scheduled newspeak :-X
OK, this is enough to break my personal boycott. Shouldn't need to say it, but here goes: is this worth our time? Is any institution on this planet going to drop even just one of these ideas. Interesting thoughts, but w/ all due respect, c'mon man
Perhaps you should actually explain why my ideas are wrong instead of just giving your classic "c'mon man."
Quote from: jack on January 20, 2012, 04:41:52 PM
A bit drastic there C3. You won't recruite anyone at all, and you'll break the spirit of anyone that does come along as they'll no doubt, all be underclassmen. We have a really nice core group of players here. I would go as far to say though, of the players that haven't contributed this season, it's put up or shut up and move on time. We certainly need a change, but no university in their right mind would implement a fraction of what you suggest, as the reality is, most ladies basketball programs, unless they're elite, are a drag on the athletic budget. A lot can be done here, and should be looked at, at season's end, but it isn't fair to punish the players that are out there every night giving it all they have - they aren't the problem. As I've said many times, you can't possibly compete at this level with 6 - sometimes 7 players. I don't care how elite of a squad you are - it doesn't happen - not now - not ever!
Good thoughts as usual, jack...I'm just so darn fed up with this whole mess!
Yeah, me too. If this old fart can get out there and help, I would. It's tough to watch. These ladies need support, and direction. let's hope they get it tomorrow night. they're 3 players away from really competing. A shame we have that and then some sitting and watching like the rest of us.
Crusader03...first...you can only bring in like 6 new scholarships per year(Or whatever the NCAA rules are on this). Sure, you could field a team, but half would be walkons...talk about terrible team. Second...it's the coaches job to make everyone believe in him/her and his/her system...that's Freeman's failure. With that said, getting rid of the leader troublemakers(if there are any)is also a good plan. Maybe a mixture of the two??? Anyway, I just mostly wanted to say that you have to adhere to NCAA scholarship rules when wholesale ridding the team of an entire roster...and you didn't take that into account...
Two points. (1) jack's thoughts are close enough to the explanations i would have given, so i let his words stand above any extra i could give (2) my "classic c'mon man?" never used it on here before, i've only picked it up from NFL Sunday Countdown
Above all, I'm w/ you guys about being frustrated with the results of the year. Gene Hackman and co. might make a short bench look good in "Hoosiers," but it has not been as pretty in reality.
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
2) "Money talks" Cut funding to the women's program by 75%. No play, no pay. Take that money and funnel it into the men's program. Maybe if the ladies didn't have so many warm-ups and other gear, trips out of country, lockerooms, etc, they would regain the hunger they need to be a legit D1 contender. And before some pencil-pusher steps in screaming "Title IX! Title IX!" I'm already thinking that we cut funding to men's track (or one of the other less important sports) to even things out.
I'll take "Activities that may lead to an inquiry from the Office for Civil Rights" for $500.00 Alex.
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PMIt needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
Crusader03 goes overboard a lot but did you really gag him? What kind of gagging was it if he still posts?
Quote from: cornonthe on January 20, 2012, 04:54:21 PM
Crusader03...first...you can only bring in like 6 new scholarships per year(Or whatever the NCAA rules are on this). Sure, you could field a team, but half would be walkons...talk about terrible team. Second...it's the coaches job to make everyone believe in him/her and his/her system...that's Freeman's failure. With that said, getting rid of the leader troublemakers(if there are any)is also a good plan. Maybe a mixture of the two??? Anyway, I just mostly wanted to say that you have to adhere to NCAA scholarship rules when wholesale ridding the team of an entire roster...and you didn't take that into account...
Ok, so let's cut our losses with 6 of the instigators and open up six s'ships to use on this new era of Lady 'Saders hoops.
Also, I would like to mention that I do not think ValpoHoops should be cut loose from his position...I believe he mentioned he was a team manager or film guy or personal assistant or something...I've always enjoyed his posts and would like to see him stay on with the program and as an "insider" on this board.
Quote from: historyman on January 20, 2012, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PMIt needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
Crusader03 goes overboard a lot but did you really gag him? What kind of gagging was it if he still posts?
Gag order=stern warning...I was not literally gagged.
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: historyman on January 20, 2012, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PMIt needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
Crusader03 goes overboard a lot but did you really gag him? What kind of gagging was it if he still posts?
Gag order=stern warning...I was not literally gagged.
Warned of what, exactly? Inquiring minds would love to know.
Quote from: valpo04 on January 20, 2012, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: historyman on January 20, 2012, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PMIt needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
Crusader03 goes overboard a lot but did you really gag him? What kind of gagging was it if he still posts?
Gag order=stern warning...I was not literally gagged.
Warned of what, exactly? Inquiring minds would love to know.
I'm not sure what else a pm about "trolling" would indicate?
Sorry folks...just re-read the pm...I was not warned. I was asked to quit posting in my humorous style...i understand that is different and I 'pologize to valpo04 for misconstruing his thoughts.
Can we get back on topic now?
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
I write this message knowing full well that posting these dissenting opinions may not be popular and TPTB (the powers that be) will likely up their security of my messages. It needs to be said, however, despite the gag order. There are ways to fix this program...I'm hopeful that ml will read this post and institute these measures immediately. I will also pm him and if anyone has his cell number or home phone number (or even a home address) I'd be glad to contact him personally. Here are the principles we need to execute.
1) "When you foreclose on a home, you gotta clean house." It's obvious that some trash needs to be taken to the curb. As valporun suggested in another thread, maybe Kirby is problem numero uno? When you watch things unfold, it's pretty obvious that there is dissension in the ranks and it makes you wonder who is causing the mutiny. We need to strip all players of their scholarships and remove the assistant coaches...clearly they are not playing for Keith and we have to have the guts to remove the problems. Let Keith start with a clean slate without a bunch of millstones around his neck.
2) "Money talks" Cut funding to the women's program by 75%. No play, no pay. Take that money and funnel it into the men's program. Maybe if the ladies didn't have so many warm-ups and other gear, trips out of country, lockerooms, etc, they would regain the hunger they need to be a legit D1 contender. And before some pencil-pusher steps in screaming "Title IX! Title IX!" I'm already thinking that we cut funding to men's track (or one of the other less important sports) to even things out.
3) "If you build it, don't let them play" Use the new hospital site to build a brand spanking new ARC (funded in part by the newfound money from the ladies program, perhaps?)...then, make it a men's basketball ONLY facility. Make the Lady 'Saders EARN the right to play in the ARCII. Use the old ARC main gym as a space for new dorms or a foreign students rec center. Girls can still use hilltop. When they are playing home games in Hilltop or one of the local high schools, do you think it might motivate them to get this program turned around? Sho 'nuff!
If we take these drastic measures, I seriously believe our Lady 'Saders will be an NCAA tourney team in short order. Keith has been discouraged by the toxic mix on the squad, but with new players, new assistant coaches, and a new hunger things will turn around. What say you VU fans?? Do we have the guts to go for the glory??
Back to your regularly scheduled newspeak :-X
I can agree with the first suggestion in terms of looking at/evaluating the coaching staff, but #2 and #3 have some major issues. You also can't get rid of every player, because not all of them were a problem. Why punish the players for some things they have zero control over? In #2, you can't take funding away from a sport that doesn't bring in money, so why you're wanting to take money away from a track program that can't bring in money because they don't have a track to host meets on is beyond me. You're trying to punish a team that has already been neglected long enough, why punish them further? In #3, there's no point in having two separate basketball facilities or kicking one program completely off-campus, and make them earn the right to go back there, since they'd never make any money to support moving back, after having to pay rental fees for whatever high school gym they went to that wouldn't meet NCAA guidelines for what the floor needs to be.
I don't know guys, this whole post by 03 reminds us of previous posts that were made by jj/setshot about the football team. Like I said, I could support what he said about the coaching staff, but everything else has way too many flaws and things are sounding like sending women's basketball to the death penalty.
Quote from: valporun on January 20, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
I don't know guys, this whole post by 03 reminds us of previous posts that were made by jj/setshot about the football team. Like I said, I could support what he said about the coaching staff, but everything else has way too many flaws and things are sounding like sending women's basketball to the death penalty.
Well, at this point, I think that has to be considered....do we really want to continue down this road with this team?
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 10:55:28 PM
Quote from: valporun on January 20, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
I don't know guys, this whole post by 03 reminds us of previous posts that were made by jj/setshot about the football team. Like I said, I could support what he said about the coaching staff, but everything else has way too many flaws and things are sounding like sending women's basketball to the death penalty.
Well, at this point, I think that has to be considered....do we really want to continue down this road with this team?
We don't have a choice right now. Also, the girls who can play are doing the best they can with what they can do. I won't doubt that we don't see a couple of players transfer after the season, but I'm not closing the book on the season, unlike Crusader03 who is begging to be the women's basketball version of setshot. BOOK IT!!!
Quote from: valporun on January 20, 2012, 10:59:42 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 20, 2012, 10:55:28 PM
Quote from: valporun on January 20, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
I don't know guys, this whole post by 03 reminds us of previous posts that were made by jj/setshot about the football team. Like I said, I could support what he said about the coaching staff, but everything else has way too many flaws and things are sounding like sending women's basketball to the death penalty.
Well, at this point, I think that has to be considered....do we really want to continue down this road with this team?
We don't have a choice right now. Also, the girls who can play are doing the best they can with what they can do. I won't doubt that we don't see a couple of players transfer after the season, but I'm not closing the book on the season, unlike Crusader03 who is begging to be the women's basketball version of setshot. BOOK IT!!!
I don't want to be done with women's hoops...I want to rebuild with Keith from the ground up. There is a big difference between setshot and me. And anyways, other than jack, I'd say I'm about as passionate as it gets when it comes to the lady 'Saders.
Definitely want to continue with this team, just down a different road. It's time. I think it's obvious who will be able to contribute until year's end and beyond. Outside of Scott, we have players on the sidelines that need to be gone. An injury, that doesn't require surgery, or major rehab, but still keeps you out an entire season, should tell you something. Gick had to leave as she wasn't going to improve. We have 3 other players, that, should be considered as well. I spoke to officials and other folks that are connected with Butler, Ball State, and Cleveland State. Ironically, we beat 2 of the 3 teams, and still, they are absolutely baffled with what's going on here at Valpo. Like me, they have never seen, or heard of a team in D1 that's tried to compete for this long with 6 or 7 available players. As others suggest, can we not have at least looked around for some walk on help? I can't believe, unless I missed something, that no one has redshirted yet. I'm hoping this is indicative that it's already been decided that changes are coming next season.
To put it in simple words...after reading post after post regarding the women's program, it sure looks like the probelm is Coach Freeman and his staff...able to recruit good players but then doesn't know how to mold them into a cohesive team, short handed or whatever, his program doesn't seem to be effective. After all, doesn't the head coach hire his assistants? "C'mon man" is the proper term...let's get real folks.
Quote from: valpo64 on January 21, 2012, 12:12:33 PM
To put it in simple words...after reading post after post regarding the women's program, it sure looks like the probelm is Coach Freeman and his staff...able to recruit good players but then doesn't know how to mold them into a cohesive team, short handed or whatever, his program doesn't seem to be effective. After all, doesn't the head coach hire his assistants? "C'mon man" is the proper term...let's get real folks.
Looks like KL31NY has a second handle to spread his venom....nothing to see here folks.
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 21, 2012, 12:25:41 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on January 21, 2012, 12:12:33 PM
To put it in simple words...after reading post after post regarding the women's program, it sure looks like the probelm is Coach Freeman and his staff...able to recruit good players but then doesn't know how to mold them into a cohesive team, short handed or whatever, his program doesn't seem to be effective. After all, doesn't the head coach hire his assistants? "C'mon man" is the proper term...let's get real folks.
Looks like KL31NY has a second handle to spread his venom....nothing to see here folks.
Incorrect, and why can you start a thread that calls the players and assistant coaches "toxic", but as soon as someone mentions Freeman it is venom?
I don't understand this thread. 03 mentions some ideas that could be considered wacko, but anytime someone mentions Freeman, 03 gets defensive of Freeman. Get rid of the players, take away the program funding, but keep Freeman?
Maybe we need to send 03 one of those devices, kind of like the blow tube connected to the ignition of car for DUI - except 03's would measure whether or not proper medication was taken that day before using a computer connected to the internet.
C'mon man and get real are justified terms around 03.
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif)
Hey, I'm a rookie on the forum and have no axes to grind regarding WBB, so maybe I can add a dispassionate observation. Guys, it's almost never the kids. It's how the coaching staff molds, trains and assimilates the kids into a program that fits their talent and skills.
Don't have any lights out scorers? Screw offense -- everyone plays in-your face-defense.
Don't have super talent 1-7 ? Use 8-10 to just create havoc for a few minutes of rest for 1-5.
Bottom line there is always a solution if the coach is willing to look for it.
I don't now anything about the WBB coach, but this thread definitely makes a statement about him. Fact of the matter is the kids can see through the veil easier than the outside observer. If there is dissension (I have no ideas on that), maybe it's justified.
And BTW, I really am pretty miffed at some of the posts that advocate getting rid of the kids. This is not a pro BB draft and millions in salary are not at stake. These kids were recruited to play for Valpo by a coach. There is an implied contract that both parties will do the best they can for the university. But, it isn't working out right now. So the answer is fire the kids? I don't think so.
And just how plausible are these ideas supposed to be? run the players out? build an entire new facility and keep them out? cut funding to the women's team and men's track? I guess there is a reason why this warranted a "c'mon man."
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on January 21, 2012, 10:36:38 PM
And just how plausible are these ideas supposed to be? run the players out? build an entire new facility and keep them out? cut funding to the women's team and men's track? I guess there is a reason why this warranted a "c'mon man."
DM, you are one of the most respected posters 'round these parts, so when you speak--- I listen. Maybe my thinking is unorthodox here...just seems like we are in a desperate situation, so maybe we need to take desperate measures. How do you think we should get this mess cleaned up?
On this note, is it possible to set up a private forum for some of the top posters? This would be password protected and be a think tank of sorts...I would be able to run an idea like this past some of the top posters and get their feedback. This would come in handy for many of us who are FLOABT (for lack of a better term) "the top tier" of posters. Valpo04, can you work on setting this up? I'm thinking myself, DM, sectionee, VU72 and jack would be in that initial group. Of course, the mods COULD have the password, but that may hold people back from posting ideas. Whatever you think is best though V04...please and thank you in advance!
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 21, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif)
Hey, I'm a rookie on the forum and have no axes to grind regarding WBB, so maybe I can add a dispassionate observation. Guys, it's almost never the kids. It's how the coaching staff molds, trains and assimilates the kids into a program that fits their talent and skills.
Don't have any lights out scorers? Screw offense -- everyone plays in-your face-defense.
Don't have super talent 1-7 ? Use 8-10 to just create havoc for a few minutes of rest for 1-5.
Bottom line there is always a solution if the coach is willing to look for it.
I don't now anything about the WBB coach, but this thread definitely makes a statement about him. Fact of the matter is the kids can see through the veil easier than the outside observer. If there is dissension (I have no ideas on that), maybe it's justified.
And BTW, I really am pretty miffed at some of the posts that advocate getting rid of the kids. This is not a pro BB draft and millions in salary are not at stake. These kids were recruited to play for Valpo by a coach. There is an implied contract that both parties will do the best they can for the university. But, it isn't working out right now. So the answer is fire the kids? I don't think so.
Do you play football at VU?
You can always voice your opinions, 03, and that is actually a good thing. But a president or AD that listens to the advice of posters on an anonymous fan message board is a fool. Putting out info is good on a message board but making your decisions on message board input is not good.
i think a president or a.d. should look at the message boards to find out what the fan base is saying (after all these are ther people that buy tickets etc..)
with that said i am sure they can look at it and weight it objectively-not to make decisions ,but to rather get a feel for what those that follow the programs are thinking
the administration can wade through what is nonsense and what is legitimate
03: "Do you play football at VU?"
Yup. Played for Walt Reiner back in the leather helmet no face mask era (not really). 1962-66
Quote from: Crusader03 on January 21, 2012, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on January 21, 2012, 10:36:38 PM
And just how plausible are these ideas supposed to be? run the players out? build an entire new facility and keep them out? cut funding to the women's team and men's track? I guess there is a reason why this warranted a "c'mon man."
DM, you are one of the most respected posters 'round these parts, so when you speak--- I listen. Maybe my thinking is unorthodox here...just seems like we are in a desperate situation, so maybe we need to take desperate measures. How do you think we should get this mess cleaned up?
On this note, is it possible to set up a private forum for some of the top posters? This would be password protected and be a think tank of sorts...I would be able to run an idea like this past some of the top posters and get their feedback. This would come in handy for many of us who are FLOABT (for lack of a better term) "the top tier" of posters. Valpo04, can you work on setting this up? I'm thinking myself, DM, sectionee, VU72 and jack would be in that initial group. Of course, the mods COULD have the password, but that may hold people back from posting ideas. Whatever you think is best though V04...please and thank you in advance!
I'm sorry to say that i really do not know what the right action is to get the women's program on the right track. Other posters have conceded that taking a second look at the coaching staff is going to probably a necessary action. Either way, I have to agree with what has been said regarding the players, and that is that you cannot place all of the blame on them and expect to suffer the consequences of an unsuccessful program. They work hard for program and all of the losing can't be put 100% on them. It should make you question the system they operate under instead of their abilities as players.
At the end of the day, this has just been a tough, freakish season for coaches and players alike. Expecting W's consistently isn't reasonable. It's apparent, it's getting to them all right now. Playing with this short of a bench for this long has exposed, and amplified our weaknesses 10 fold. I wouldn't want Freeman's possition for anything right now. We probably need a 24hr moritorium on posting after these frustating games as the knee jerk comments probably aren't productive, and they certainly must be hurtful to a point for those inside the program.
Having said that, and with some time to reflect, the following is my opinion, for what it's worth:
As for the players, we just can't ask much more from the ones able to compete. In light of the season's developments, an arguement can be made that they just might be over-achieving. I'm not sure how you can stay possitive, upbeat, and ready to perform when faced with such adversity. Last night was apparent that it's taking it's toll. I don't believe we've ever missed so many open buckets right under the basket before. These players can obviously play, and were brought here for a reason. Building a team is much like building a puzzle. Unfortunately, our puzzle has been short many pieces all season. At season's end we need to seriously evaluate the players not competing this year. An honest assesment is critical to the future of this program. It's time to get back to work on the puzzle.
As for the coaching, there needs to be a change. We need new blood, and a knew philosophy. If Freeman remains, he needs to bring in some help that can bring fresh ideas to the program. If the short bench has exposed anything, it's exposed our weakness at the helm. The same old ideas, and the same old plan don't work anymore, and haven't for some time. He also needs to bring someone in that can motivate, and also help sell a new system and ideas. These players are hungry for something they can embrace with confidence. I didn't see an ounce of confidence on that floor last night. I give Freeman credit, it looked like he was trying something a bit different on offense for a while, but then we appeared to slip back into the same ol same ol. Conversely, our opponent threw a bunch of diifferent looks at us with much success.
I'll alway be a Valpo fan, and know things will turn around next season. They have to. I believe in our core group of ladies, and think, with the right help, they can be something special. Losing Varner after this season will be tough. I just don't see her replacement on the roster, so we need to get serious about looking. If you look at the verbals for next year, I see a guard heavy squad next season. We need more help inside right now then we do in the back court. Our other transfer that'll be ready next season will help shore up the back court. Bringing in 3-4 more guards doesn't make sense, and certainly not what our puzzle needs. We lost Ladd, and will lose Varner, and I don't see Calloway, Lang, or even Horton filling the gaps. It's time to get serious, and get moving in the right direction, or step aside and hand the raines over to someone that can help.
I have hit this topic so many times I am even boring myself. So here is my last comment until seasons end. The idea of keeping Freeman but bringing in new assistants for fresh ideas is about as silly as recommending we drop the entire team. The head coach is the ultimate authority on everything. We are recruiting the wrong players....his fault. Players aren't developing...his fault...we have little imagination or change in plans....his fault. We can't get players ready to play...his fault and finally the record is his as well. You can find lots of excuses for some of these but the bottom line record is not disputeable. In our 4+ seasons in the HL were are winning 37% of all games (38% in the HL). In the last 2+ we are at 27% and 26% with finishes of 7th, 9th and probably 9th or 10th. Prior to this year we are 0-4 in conference tourneys.
I thought the HL was a step up but what I am guessing is a former player suggested the the HL is no different the the Mid-Con outside of GB. This states my case even better as were competitive there.
At seasons end it is time for a new leader of this program.
Quote from: IndyValpo on January 23, 2012, 11:27:31 AM
I have hit this topic so many times I am even boring myself. So here is my last comment until seasons end. The idea of keeping Freeman but bringing in new assistants for fresh ideas is about as silly as recommending we drop the entire team. The head coach is the ultimate authority on everything. We are recruiting the wrong players....his fault. Players aren't developing...his fault...we have little imagination or change in plans....his fault. We can't get players ready to play...his fault and finally the record is his as well. You can find lots of excuses for some of these but the bottom line record is not disputeable. In our 4+ seasons in the HL were are winning 37% of all games (38% in the HL). In the last 2+ we are at 27% and 26% with finishes of 7th, 9th and probably 9th or 10th. Prior to this year we are 0-4 in conference tourneys.
I thought the HL was a step up but what I am guessing is a former player suggested the the HL is no different the the Mid-Con outside of GB. This states my case even better as were competitive there.
At seasons end it is time for a new leader of this program.
And let me guess...you'd be the perfect guy for the job!
IndyValpo nailed it.
03 I can act like a 5 year old too. Let me guess...you'd be perfect for the job. And with that plan....I'd hire you right on the spot! It is just so smart and well thought out that...I mean you're the missing piece to the success of WBB....WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING?!
Anyways, practices are open you know...you want to get rid of the girls? Stop by and check out a practice and then make your decision about starting with Keith from the ground up. I occasionally walk with my wife on the track and you'll be just as disgusted as I was with his coaching technique.
With that being said, how long have you been watching this team? We have had talent each and every year and Keith finds a way to destroy it. These girls bust it but they are the problem? Have you even played a sport before? Probably not so that explains a lot then...
To respond to your comment about cutting their fund and not giving them gear...my good friend is a professor at VU and he has one of the freshman in his class and she was telling him how they get next to nothing. Meaning all they get are the travel suits and a couple t shirts. So taking their "gear" wouldn't mean anything to them.
Quote from: jhnmttws75 on January 24, 2012, 09:56:21 AM
IndyValpo nailed it.
03 I can act like a 5 year old too. Let me guess...you'd be perfect for the job. And with that plan....I'd hire you right on the spot! It is just so smart and well thought out that...I mean you're the missing piece to the success of WBB....WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING?!
Anyways, practices are open you know...you want to get rid of the girls? Stop by and check out a practice and then make your decision about starting with Keith from the ground up. I occasionally walk with my wife on the track and you'll be just as disgusted as I was with his coaching technique.
With that being said, how long have you been watching this team? We have had talent each and every year and Keith finds a way to destroy it. These girls bust it but they are the problem? Have you even played a sport before? Probably not so that explains a lot then...
To respond to your comment about cutting their fund and not giving them gear...my good friend is a professor at VU and he has one of the freshman in his class and she was telling him how they get next to nothing. Meaning all they get are the travel suits and a couple t shirts. So taking their "gear" wouldn't mean anything to them.
Obviously, you haven't been around long enough to know exactly what is going on in this thread. But keep the diatribe going!