The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

OK, Oakland, Murray State and Belmont were runaway winners of who we thought the HL should add.....who will actually join?  Pick 3

I voted but aside from Oakland I really didn't have a clue.

To be honest with you, I don't know if the HL has very many GOOD expansion options. I doubt we'd get Murray State, by far the best option, because of its long association with the OVC, where it has all of its natural rivalries. Ditto for Morehead State and Eastern Kentucky, neither of which are as good an option as Murray.

No way in hell we'll get Northern Illinois, because NIU has FBS football and will stay in the MAC for that reason, if no other.

We're not getting George Mason or Drexel, who are both in a more prestigious league than the HL.

Oakland? Probably the best program we have a realistic chance to get, but I'm not excited about OU.

Evansville and Bradley? No way either one of them is leaving the MVC for the HL.

As to the others, why would we want any of them? None of them are "name" schools, even at the mid-major level. I don't want to water down the league with third-tier programs like IUPUI or IPFW, who have neither the facilities nor the fan followings to be top-level members who really bring any value to the league.

In short, I think the Horizon League really gains nothing by adding any of the teams that it has a realistic chance to add. I think we should stay with the nine schools we've got. We're not going to get anybody that has Butler's prestige (or better), so any move we might make does not achieve any useful purpose. And if we end up with a 16-game conference schedule, as compared to 18, that's two more quality nonconference games each team can add to the schedule. That will do far more for our RPI, collectively and individually, than adding a low-level team to the league. Let's not add members who bring no real value just for the sake of adding more members.

Quote from: Cliston94 on July 15, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
To be honest with you, I don't know if the HL has very many GOOD expansion options. I doubt we'd get Murray State, by far the best option, because of its long association with the OVC, where it has all of its natural rivalries. Ditto for Morehead State and Eastern Kentucky, neither of which are as good an option as Murray.

No way in hell we'll get Northern Illinois, because NIU has FBS football and will stay in the MAC for that reason, if no other.

We're not getting George Mason or Drexel, who are both in a more prestigious league than the HL.

Oakland? Probably the best program we have a realistic chance to get, but I'm not excited about OU.

Evansville and Bradley? No way either one of them is leaving the MVC for the HL.

As to the others, why would we want any of them? None of them are "name" schools, even at the mid-major level. I don't want to water down the league with third-tier programs like IUPUI or IPFW, who have neither the facilities nor the fan followings to be top-level members who really bring any value to the league.

In short, I think the Horizon League really gains nothing by adding any of the teams that it has a realistic chance to add. I think we should stay with the nine schools we've got. We're not going to get anybody that has Butler's prestige (or better), so any move we might make does not achieve any useful purpose. And if we end up with a 16-game conference schedule, as compared to 18, that's two more quality nonconference games each team can add to the schedule. That will do far more for our RPI, collectively and individually, than adding a low-level team to the league. Let's not add members who bring no real value just for the sake of adding more members.

is there a reason you're not excited about adding oakland? their body of work has been arguably better than murray state in the last few years - slightly worse overall record but against higher quality teams. it'd be nice if we could get both, but i can understand why murray state would like to stay in the ovc, with their natural rivalries. beyond targeting those two teams, there's not really anybody else to really get excited about.

Oakland's a pretty decent program, but hasn't really arrived yet. OU had a few nice wins or near misses a couple seasons ago but got crushed in the NCAAs. I'd have to look up how many times the Grizzlies have made the tournament, but I don't think it's been very many. Three or maybe four, all-time? I don't know if I'd say Oakland's body of work surpasses Murray State's, and its name certainly doesn't. If I recall correctly, Murray State knocked out Vanderbilt a couple years ago and nearly beat Butler. Oakland has done nothing nearly as impressive. The win at Tennessee when UT was ranked #7 was a nice win, but if it's not a tournament win, it doesn't get nearly as much notice.

If we got Murray State, I think people would take notice and be somewhat impressed. If we got Oakland, there'd be a lot of "Really? They got a team from California?" I know, I know, Oakland University is in Michigan. But I'd bet a lot of basketball fans don't know that.

The league lost a big name. If we replace it with a lesser name (and just about anybody we could realistically get would be a lesser name than Butler), it doesn't help us. Oakland's day may come, but let's let Oakland notch a tournament win or two before extending an invite.

Quote from: Cliston94 on July 15, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
We're not getting George Mason or Drexel, who are both in a more prestigious league than the HL.

We are not adding GM or Drexel because we aren't even looking at them because they are located too far away, not because they are a more presigious conference than the HL.  If anything, the CAA is going down the crapper.   They lost 2 of their top programs, VCU to the A-10 and Old Dominion to Conf USA.
And whoever keeps voting for IPFW and IUPUI hasn't been paying attention to the posts of the connected posters in the HL.  Big D, PantherU, and a few others have confirmed that the HL presidents have already told LeCrone that neither one of those schools will be considered in expansion.
The HL wants to add 3 teams, but only if they will improve the conference enough to potentially be a multi-bid conference in basketball.  If we cannot attract 3 teams that we believe give us that potential, the HL will stop at 1 to get our automatic bid back in baseball.

Quote from: HorizonLeagueFan on July 15, 2012, 08:35:41 PM

Quote from: Cliston94 on July 15, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
We're not getting George Mason or Drexel, who are both in a more prestigious league than the HL.

We are not adding GM or Drexel because we aren't even looking at them because they are located too far away, not because they are a more presigious conference than the HL.  If anything, the CAA is going down the crapper.   They lost 2 of their top programs, VCU to the A-10 and Old Dominion to Conf USA.
And whoever keeps voting for IPFW and IUPUI hasn't been paying attention to the posts of the connected posters in the HL.  Big D, PantherU, and a few others have confirmed that the HL presidents have already told LeCrone that neither one of those schools will be considered in expansion.
The HL wants to add 3 teams, but only if they will improve the conference enough to potentially be a multi-bid conference in basketball.  If we cannot attract 3 teams that we believe give us that potential, the HL will stop at 1 to get our automatic bid back in baseball.

Weren't you telling us we did not add one school immediately for a big splash of three at a later date?  If we only take one school, which is likely since Murray State is the only school which remotely fits your criteria and they aren't coming, we are back to Oakland only which should have already happened.

Quote from: IndyValpo on July 15, 2012, 10:20:35 PM

Quote from: HorizonLeagueFan on July 15, 2012, 08:35:41 PM

Quote from: Cliston94 on July 15, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
We're not getting George Mason or Drexel, who are both in a more prestigious league than the HL.

We are not adding GM or Drexel because we aren't even looking at them because they are located too far away, not because they are a more presigious conference than the HL.  If anything, the CAA is going down the crapper.   They lost 2 of their top programs, VCU to the A-10 and Old Dominion to Conf USA.
And whoever keeps voting for IPFW and IUPUI hasn't been paying attention to the posts of the connected posters in the HL.  Big D, PantherU, and a few others have confirmed that the HL presidents have already told LeCrone that neither one of those schools will be considered in expansion.
The HL wants to add 3 teams, but only if they will improve the conference enough to potentially be a multi-bid conference in basketball.  If we cannot attract 3 teams that we believe give us that potential, the HL will stop at 1 to get our automatic bid back in baseball.

Weren't you telling us we did not add one school immediately for a big splash of three at a later date?  If we only take one school, which is likely since Murray State is the only school which remotely fits your criteria and they aren't coming, we are back to Oakland only which should have already happened.

Horizonleaguefan on 6/23/12:

The HL is going to add 3 teams and they want at least 2 of the 3 to have baseball.

Three weeks ago a brand new poster states emphatically that the HL will be adding 3 new teams - no ifs, ands or buts about it.  Now he changes to maybe 1, maybe 3, depending. I was hopeful that HLfan was somehow a league insider - until now. 

Quote from: wh on July 16, 2012, 12:01:07 AM
[
Three weeks ago a brand new poster states emphatically that the HL will be adding 3 new teams - no ifs, ands or buts about it.  Now he changes to maybe 1, maybe 3, depending. I was hopeful that HLfan was somehow a league insider - until now. 

Obviously I don't know HL Fan's connection to the HL office, if there is one, but I think the logic is rather simple here. The HL administrators were trying to line up 3 schools to be announced as joining the HL at the same time. The reason that the HL did not announce the 3 schools were joining the HL immediately was because they had not decided yet whether to switch to the HL yet. There's a plan and if that 3 school plan doesn't work out then it is still very necessary, due to baseball requirements for an NCAA tournament automatic bid, to find a baseball school to join the league. Therefore if 3 schools meeting all the HL requirements decide not to join then a baseball school must be found to keep the baseball automatic NCAA tournament bid.

Is the HL negligent in not planning far enough ahead to add quality schools to the league when the event of Butler's departure did happen? Maybe. We still need to see how things work out. Maybe 3 schools will still be found by basketball tournament time in 2013.

Quote from: wh on July 16, 2012, 12:01:07 AM
Three weeks ago a brand new poster states emphatically that the HL will be adding 3 new teams - no ifs, ands or buts about it.  Now he changes to maybe 1, maybe 3, depending. I was hopeful that HLfan was somehow a league insider - until now. 

Nothing has changed with what I have been saying.  The HL wants to add 3 teams to get the HL to a point where we can be a consistent 2 bid conference.  There are a handful of teams that we think can get us there that have legit interest in the HL.  We plan to add 3.  We don't have a commitment from 3 teams yet.  We have 1 (Oakland) that we knows wants in and several that have interest.  If we get the other 2 we want, we will make the announcement around our conference tournament time next year.   
My last post about only adding 1 team was reasoning why we wouldn't go after IUPUI or IPFW.  The HL is a conference made up of many teams that rely on the NCAA tournament money the conference produces.  We have been splitting that money up between 10 members and the HL.  We don't want to add teams, just to add teams.  We don't want to split our share of NCAA tournament money from 10 pieces to 12 pieces unless the payout is greater.  Teams like IUPUI and IPFW don't help us get there and never will.  The HL and it's presidents would rather just add 1 team (to get our baseball bid back) than go to 12 if all we can do is add teams like IUPUI or IPFW.   As I have been saying, the HL wants to add 3 teams.  I believe we will add 3 teams, but not at the expense of quality.

OK, then where does that leave us?  Oakland is in and the other two?  Who on the list can really help us to get to a two bid league?  Drexel, George Mason, Belmont, Murray State?  Yes to all of them.  Geography is against all of them.  So, does the HL abandon their position on geographics or do we stick to Oakland?

Robert Morris would work but really doesn't add much to our rpi.  If we can raid the OVC and get two of them, it could be Morehead State and Belmont, as neither play football in the OVC.  Murray State does. Now, if we could add Belmont and Murray State plus Oakland, we've got something, but Belmont stretches the map.  I suppose anything can happen but the OVC losing Murray or Morehead would mean losing original teams in the conference since 1948.  It would be a major shakeup.

Quote from: vu72 on July 16, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
OK, then where does that leave us?  Oakland is in and the other two?  Who on the list can really help us to get to a two bid league?  Drexel, George Mason, Belmont, Murray State?  Yes to all of them.  Geography is against all of them.  So, does the HL abandon their position on geographics or do we stick to Oakland?

Robert Morris would work but really doesn't add much to our rpi.  If we can raid the OVC and get two of them, it could be Morehead State and Belmont, as neither play football in the OVC.  Murray State does. Now, if we could add Belmont and Murray State plus Oakland, we've got something, but Belmont stretches the map.  I suppose anything can happen but the OVC losing Murray or Morehead would mean losing original teams in the conference since 1948.  It would be a major shakeup.

I beg to differ on Robert Morris.  Their RPI the last 5 years has been 100, 100, 129, 109, and 132.  I consider that to be pretty amazing considering that 2/3 of their games have been conference games vs other NEC schools.   The NEC is one of the worst basketball conferences in the country.  If they can achieve the above RPIs in the NEC, imagine how good their RPI would be in the HL.  The same argument can be made for most of the teams we are looking at because most of those schools come from lower rated conferences.   

Quote from: HorizonLeagueFan on July 16, 2012, 03:56:11 PMI beg to differ on Robert Morris.  Their RPI the last 5 years has been 100, 100, 129, 109, and 132.  I consider that to be pretty amazing considering that 2/3 of their games have been conference games vs other NEC schools.   The NEC is one of the worst basketball conferences in the country.  If they can achieve the above RPIs in the NEC, imagine how good their RPI would be in the HL.

I actually listed Robert Morris as one of my three predictions and would welcome their addition.  They do play football in the NEC but there are teams in that football conference that are not full members (see Duquense). 

IPFW and the Summit League have now changed the university name to Fort Wayne for its sports teams, perhaps hoping for more respect. Will Fort Wayne be more inviting than IPFW for invite to the Horizon League?  ???

http://news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120718/SPORTS/120719617/1007/OPINION (http://news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120718/SPORTS/120719617/1007/OPINION)

Absolutely not.  They are still the same commuter campus that does not have a good enough athletics reputation for the HL

Did IPFW have a discussions with Milwaukee and Green Bay about how their athletics rebranding has worked out? If, and that's a BIG IF, Fort Wayne works, does it make IUPUI want to become INDIANAPOLIS?

I would agree with a Robert Morris and Oakland, but that third school is going to be the great hang up about this deal.

Quote from: valporun on July 19, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Did IPFW have a discussions with Milwaukee and Green Bay about how their athletics rebranding has worked out? If, and that's a BIG IF, Fort Wayne works, does it make IUPUI want to become INDIANAPOLIS?

I would agree with a Robert Morris and Oakland, but that third school is going to be the great hang up about this deal.

Former Indiana Central, division II in sports, is now University of Indianapolis. They are the Greyhounds and are known around town as UIndy and in their conference as Indianapolis.

My thought was maybe IP-Indy? for IUPUI. Ooey Pooey was never a good choice. INPUR-Indy? Indy Downtown? Indy State?(which would take rebranding) Indy Large? George Hill U? 4 vowels & a consonant? White River U? MedDentLaw?

Palindrome University

In a thread entitled Oakland to HL, a poster on the Oakland board recently noted: Still no league affiliation on the new floor. Has to be a sign. To quote anchorman "the times, they are a changing"


Read more: http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1146#ixzz2B0bIEPGr (http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1146#ixzz2B0bIEPGr)

Quote from: bbtds on July 19, 2012, 01:11:27 PM

Quote from: valporun on July 19, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Did IPFW have a discussions with Milwaukee and Green Bay about how their athletics rebranding has worked out? If, and that's a BIG IF, Fort Wayne works, does it make IUPUI want to become INDIANAPOLIS?

I would agree with a Robert Morris and Oakland, but that third school is going to be the great hang up about this deal.

Former Indiana Central, division II in sports, is now University of Indianapolis. They are the Greyhounds and are known around town as UIndy and in their conference as Indianapolis.

My thought was maybe IP-Indy? for IUPUI. Ooey Pooey was never a good choice. INPUR-Indy? Indy Downtown? Indy State?(which would take rebranding) Indy Large? George Hill U? 4 vowels & a consonant? White River U? MedDentLaw?

The Summit is aggressively working to adopt simpler names.  Fort Wayne (IPFW), Omaha (UNO) and Kansas City (UMKC) are now being used on the league website.  IUPUI is still there, because as bbtds points out, they really don't have a better option.

Quote from: zvillehaze on November 01, 2012, 05:19:12 PM

Quote from: bbtds on July 19, 2012, 01:11:27 PM

Quote from: valporun on July 19, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Did IPFW have a discussions with Milwaukee and Green Bay about how their athletics rebranding has worked out? If, and that's a BIG IF, Fort Wayne works, does it make IUPUI want to become INDIANAPOLIS?

I would agree with a Robert Morris and Oakland, but that third school is going to be the great hang up about this deal.

Former Indiana Central, division II in sports, is now University of Indianapolis. They are the Greyhounds and are known around town as UIndy and in their conference as Indianapolis.

My thought was maybe IP-Indy? for IUPUI. Ooey Pooey was never a good choice. INPUR-Indy? Indy Downtown? Indy State?(which would take rebranding) Indy Large? George Hill U? 4 vowels & a consonant? White River U? MedDentLaw?

The Summit is aggressively working to adopt simpler names.  Fort Wayne (IPFW), Omaha (UNO) and Kansas City (UMKC) are now being used on the league website.  IUPUI is still there, because as bbtds points out, they really don't have a better option.

If the state is going to use the IU and Purdue curriculum at these combined campuses they will want to maintain some kind of control or influence.  The schools, which are more than small commuter schools, need their own identity.  Maybe the solution is to create two new Universities, Northeast Indiana State and White River State, and offer the students the choice of having the new school name on the degree or IU/PU for a period of 5 years or so?

Quote from: covufan on November 02, 2012, 04:43:23 PM

Quote from: zvillehaze on November 01, 2012, 05:19:12 PM

Quote from: bbtds on July 19, 2012, 01:11:27 PM

Quote from: valporun on July 19, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Did IPFW have a discussions with Milwaukee and Green Bay about how their athletics rebranding has worked out? If, and that's a BIG IF, Fort Wayne works, does it make IUPUI want to become INDIANAPOLIS?

I would agree with a Robert Morris and Oakland, but that third school is going to be the great hang up about this deal.

Former Indiana Central, division II in sports, is now University of Indianapolis. They are the Greyhounds and are known around town as UIndy and in their conference as Indianapolis.

My thought was maybe IP-Indy? for IUPUI. Ooey Pooey was never a good choice. INPUR-Indy? Indy Downtown? Indy State?(which would take rebranding) Indy Large? George Hill U? 4 vowels & a consonant? White River U? MedDentLaw?

The Summit is aggressively working to adopt simpler names.  Fort Wayne (IPFW), Omaha (UNO) and Kansas City (UMKC) are now being used on the league website.  IUPUI is still there, because as bbtds points out, they really don't have a better option.

If the state is going to use the IU and Purdue curriculum at these combined campuses they will want to maintain some kind of control or influence.  The schools, which are more than small commuter schools, need their own identity.  Maybe the solution is to create two new Universities, Northeast Indiana State and White River State, and offer the students the choice of having the new school name on the degree or IU/PU for a period of 5 years or so?

You can call it whatever you want instead of IUPUI, but since I know plenty of people who graduated (masters or otherwise) from there, IU or Purdue needs to be on that diploma. It's a giant commuter campus and most people there don't give two rips about any of the sports programs or the name of the school for that matter. Call it Whatsamatter U for all they care, as long as in the end they have an IU or Purdue diploma.

Quote from: IndyValpo on July 15, 2012, 09:49:26 AMOK, Oakland, Murray State and Belmont were runaway winners of who we thought the HL should add.....who will actually join? Pick 3

Does anyone know when the drop dead date is to announce HL expansion by the conference?  Iknow that there is some deadline so that HL baseball does not lose it's automatic qualifier status since, with the loss of Butler, there are currently only 5 baseball programs in the HL and the minimum is 6 to maintain an automatic qualifier.  I know there is a grace period but I am not sure how that works.  I'm assuming there needs to be a decision/announcement next spring after NCAA Basketall at the latest.  When would the expansion teams officially join......2014-15 season?  My hope and best guess is Oakland, Murray State and Belmont just like the post above references.  I think Oakland is a done deal.  I'm assuming the other two schools are still in negotiation hence the delay in an announcement.  Anyone have any new insights?

I believe that the grace period is 3 seasons to get back to the minimum number of schools.  Just adding Oakland will take care of that issue, and hopefully we go with Belmont and Evansville from there to add 2 more schools with baseball, and private to boot  :)

With Maryland's and Rutger's move to the B14G, time to start thinking bigger than Oakland. The Big Least is faltering (see news about Boise State considering going back to Mountain West). Are there schools there that would be good adds to expand the conference and focus on its strength in basketball, for example Providence and Villanova have no good homes. What about St John? You add the media markets of the East Coast and add solid basketball first schools. Georgetown is also out there. Louisville or UConn will be heading to ACC. Adding at a minimum Nova, Providence and St Johns would strengthen and solidify the conference. Discuss.... (but think bigger -- Oakland is basically a redundancy and stop gap not a great add).

Quote from: valpotx on November 20, 2012, 10:05:56 AMI believe that the grace period is 3 seasons to get back to the minimum number of schools. Just adding Oakland will take care of that issue, and hopefully we go with Belmont and Evansville from there to add 2 more schools with baseball, and private to boot :)

valpotx, I agree Evansville would be a good add too. 

Quote from: valpo84 on November 20, 2012, 10:24:16 AMWith Maryland's and Rutger's move to the B14G, time to start thinking bigger than Oakland. The Big Least is faltering (see news about Boise State considering going back to Mountain West). Are there schools there that would be good adds to expand the conference and focus on its strength in basketball, for example Providence and Villanova have no good homes. What about St John? You add the media markets of the East Coast and add solid basketball first schools. Georgetown is also out there. Louisville or UConn will be heading to ACC. Adding at a minimum Nova, Providence and St Johns would strengthen and solidify the conference. Discuss.... (but think bigger -- Oakland is basically a redundancy and stop gap not a great add).

It would be great to add Nova, Providence and/or St. Johns.  But don't you think they would look more to the A-10 with their East Coast footprint being a better fit geographically. 

But the A-10 has 14 schools already, and Nova, eg, would already have to compete with Temple and St Joes, etc, for Philly attention. Yes they could go there, but Horizon spreads their recruiting and other marketing to the midwest and would keep their East Coast as well. Essentially the Horizon would compete directly with A-10. I'd still prefer St Louis be added, but Horizon needs to think broadly and forwardly. (BTW and probably better for the basketball threads but St Louis and New Mexico looked really, really good yesterday.)

Duchesnse?  instead of Robert Morris.   
Chicago/Milwaukee/Detroit is our key asset to offer, esp. in basketball.   While I think the east coast is a really BIG reach.....I LOVE THE SPECULATION biz.   
On a more modest level, I still see Bradley as a great fit and wonder how well they are doing in the MVC across all sports.    Pull Drake at the same time since I would guess they don't do well in baseball where they are and would like the Chicago and Milwaukee tie-ins.   Too bad there isn't a small D-1 in the Twin Cities market.     

Speculation about the eastern Big Least schools is not gonna do it.  The rationale for them staying eastern that was expressed is pretty much spot on.  But, no one mentioned DePaul -- they need to get away from the Big Least to resurrect their BB program.  Too close to UIC and Loyola?

I think DePaul would be a terrific addition. It's an excellent school that as 62 said, needs some help getting its basketball program back together.

DEPAUL is a great idea.     I think I suggested that along with Bradley and Northern Illinois as possibilities.   

Keeps travel inexpensive and maybe actually PENETRATES Chicago market further if we add Depaul.   We're just a blip now.

DePaul would be a perfect addition, as it would open up more potential for rivalries, and gives us 3 Chicago games a year, or a rotation of 2 Chicago games a year leaving out either Loyola, UIC, or DePaul in a given year. It would also help DePaul's recruiting door in Chicago, now that parents would be able to see HL games in three Chicago locations, plus Valpo, Milwaukee, and potentially Green Bay, if they choose to travel so far. DePaul always struggled to get the Chicago kids to stay because they wouldn't hire a Chicago guy to recruit the Chicago Public Schools for their increased hopes in the Big East. They've had what seems like a handful of coaches since firing Joey Meyer, but none of the coaches they've hired since were successful in keeping Chicago kids in the city.

I'm not sure NIU would move, considering they are more of a football school, with a strong presence in the MAC, that they wouldn't want to walk away from.

DePaul downside -- no baseball.

Quote from: VULB#62 on November 21, 2012, 11:47:03 PM
DePaul downside -- no baseball.

True, but if we get Oakland and DePaul, we increase a handle on two major Midwest markets, Chicago and Detroit, and might keep some of those basketball players closer to home for college play. It would also help DePaul's recruiting because some of the kids like to play in front of family more, and plane flights to Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and Florida, can get expensive.

Usually.....you would rule out a "step down", but the Big East is a mess and DePaul doesn't play football.    Adding baseball seems like a snap given how much money they must be spending on Big East sports travel each year.

Quote from: crusadermoe on November 22, 2012, 10:12:26 PM
Usually.....you would rule out a "step down", but the Big East is a mess and DePaul doesn't play football.    Adding baseball seems like a snap given how much money they must be spending on Big East sports travel each year.

maybe they could use their travel savings to add it. (or is that what you're alluding to, moe?)

I highly doubt DePaul is ever going to consider joining the HL.  When the Big East finally breaks up for good they have 3 options that make more sense for them than the HL.  They can remain in a conference with the basketball schools from the Big East that won't be joining football conference.   DePaul, Georgetown, St Johns, Marquette, Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence is a nice start to a power basketball conference.  They could pick off the top few A-10 schools to make a solid 10 team basketball conference.  UD, Xavier, and Butler would jump at the chance to be in that conference.  If that doesn't come to fruition, DePaul would look to join the A-10 or the MVC before they would ever consider the HL.   

 

Meeting next week with some friends from Nelligan Sports Management and while they don't represent any of the programs we really want in the conference they do have teams that want to be in the HL (and teams already in the HL) and should have some nitty gritty on which way things are headed and what teams the HL has shown interest in adding.

Quote from: Big D on November 23, 2012, 09:46:32 AM
I highly doubt DePaul is ever going to consider joining the HL.  When the Big East finally breaks up for good they have 3 options that make more sense for them than the HL.  They can remain in a conference with the basketball schools from the Big East that won't be joining football conference.   DePaul, Georgetown, St Johns, Marquette, Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence is a nice start to a power basketball conference.  # They could pick off the top few A-10 schools to make a solid 10 team basketball conference.  UD, Xavier, and Butler would jump at the chance to be in that conference.  If that doesn't come to fruition, DePaul would look to join the A-10 or the MVC before they would ever consider the HL.   

Interesting and perceptive analysis Big D.  But, in each of those scenarios, IMO, DePaul would still be swimming up stream.  They need to change the loser perception quickly.  Those might not do it.  In the HL they come in as a "name BB school" despite their current woes, they would immediately see a an upswing in their W-L record, the discussion about home-based recruiting can really help them, plus, is the MVC looking for another team?  If the HL is looking to become at at-large league, DePaul certainly makes sense from the HL perspective.

Be interesting to hear what FW learns.

#  In that case, would Valpo like to be included in that conversation?  Would have to be Ohio and west -- none of eastern A-10 would be interested in something like that (again, MHO).  Just asking...

Come on--anyone who used to play in the Rosemont Horizon is a natural HL fit.

Quote from: VULB#62 on November 23, 2012, 07:02:49 PM
Interesting and perceptive analysis Big D.  But, in each of those scenarios, IMO, DePaul would still be swimming up stream.  They need to change the loser perception quickly.  Those might not do it.  In the HL they come in as a "name BB school" despite their current woes, they would immediately see a an upswing in their W-L record, the discussion about home-based recruiting can really help them, plus, is the MVC looking for another team?  If the HL is looking to become at at-large league, DePaul certainly makes sense from the HL perspective.

I think DePaul, like most schools, consider their finances first and foremost.  DePaul makes an absolute fortune from the Big East's TV contract and their share of Big East NCAA tournament money.  I doubt they really care if they could be a big fish in a small pond by joining the HL.    They will try to stay with the rest of the Big East basketball schools if they can, next they will try to get into the A-10, and last try to get into the MVC.  DePaul hasn't had a good basketball team in years.  They do have value to the Big East and to the A-10 or MVC if they approached those conferences because they add the Chicago media market and they also give each of those conferences a solid recruiting base in Chicago. 
No offense, but I doubt Valpo would be in the discussion if the Big East basketball school decided to form their own conference.  I think the Big East would want schools with name value, NCAA tournament success, a big fanbase, and top of the line facilities.   I think there are several A-10 teams and even a few CAA teams they would go after before they come calling.   

Quote from: Big D on November 23, 2012, 11:12:02 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on November 23, 2012, 07:02:49 PM
Interesting and perceptive analysis Big D.  But, in each of those scenarios, IMO, DePaul would still be swimming up stream.  They need to change the loser perception quickly.  Those might not do it.  In the HL they come in as a "name BB school" despite their current woes, they would immediately see a an upswing in their W-L record, the discussion about home-based recruiting can really help them, plus, is the MVC looking for another team?  If the HL is looking to become at at-large league, DePaul certainly makes sense from the HL perspective.

I think DePaul, like most schools, consider their finances first and foremost.  DePaul makes an absolute fortune from the Big East's TV contract and their share of Big East NCAA tournament money.  I doubt they really care if they could be a big fish in a small pond by joining the HL.    They will try to stay with the rest of the Big East basketball schools if they can, next they will try to get into the A-10, and last try to get into the MVC.  DePaul hasn't had a good basketball team in years.  They do have value to the Big East and to the A-10 or MVC if they approached those conferences because they add the Chicago media market and they also give each of those conferences a solid recruiting base in Chicago. 
No offense, but I doubt Valpo would be in the discussion if the Big East basketball school decided to form their own conference.  I think the Big East would want schools with name value, NCAA tournament success, a big fanbase, and top of the line facilities.   I think there are several A-10 teams and even a few CAA teams they would go after before they come calling.   

No offense taken, at least on my part.  The Horizon League is a good fit for Valpo.  Sometimes you have to learn to leave well enough alone. 

It is for now.  We will see what happens with this next round of shuffling, as I think we would be an even better fit for the MVC  ;)

Quote from: wh on November 24, 2012, 01:17:36 AM
No offense taken, at least on my part.  The Horizon League is a good fit for Valpo.  Sometimes you have to learn to leave well enough alone.

The same could have been said about the Mid-Con in the late '90s.  If Valpo keeps dominating the Horizon for a few more years, I wouldn't be surprised if the university at least listened to offers from more prominent conferences.  As valpotx points out, conference shuffling looks like it will continue, so Valpo just needs to be ready for any opportunities that may arise.