I'm going to be more positive this time.
Valpo will lose this game despite making major improvements in it's game.
Valpo 24
Dayton 34
Valpo will take a 1 point lead in the 2nd half but will have trouble finishing again.
Overall it will set up Valpo to have wins against Marist, Campbell, Davidson and Morehead. Which will be the turning point for Valpo football for winning in the future.
Agree .....to a point. I see Marist as a close loss (21-24???) that sets us up for three potential wins.
NO MORE BLOW-OUTS!
Sounds good.. Put me on the bandwagon for 3 wins to close out the year. All 3 plus Marist seem winnable.
We have never really played well against Dayton:
Dayton 35
Valpo 14
Don't see a win against Dayton, but hopefully improvement:
Dayton 35
Valpo 20
Ummm, no. I think 1 win
Dayton 42
Valpo 14
They'll hang around this weekend, and hopefully be competetive for at least a half, but there's no win here. I know people want to get excited after last week, but let's remember they've won 1 game in 2 1/2 years. 3 wins this season? Highly unlikely.
That said, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel?
Dayton 42
Valpo 17
Dayton has not been very good on offense this year and I see this game being fairly close. If we can take an early lead and force Dayton to throw I smell a possible upset. I pray the coaches use the same game plan as last week (run the rock!). It worked last week against the best team in the conference and should be the game plan the rest of the season. There is nothing more discouraging to an opponent than not being able to stop the run! If they don't stop the run they can't get their hands on the ball and can't score.
Dayton 28
Valpo 21
Valpo 21
Dayton 31
I think Valpo will run the ball like they did against Drake in this one but we still have to cut down on stupid penalties and turnovers, which I think will ultimately hurt VU in this game. They keep it close however and show progress to perhaps winning 3 or 4 games this year but they have to keep it close. You can't compete and keep it close against Drake and get blown out by Dayton. If that happens, expect maybe a win against Campbell or Davidson.
Still only have them at 1 win this year...no confidence in the program yet...
Dayton 38
Valpo 14
FYI: The Dayton game will have video streamed from the Dayton Football web site. I watched some of the Morehead game last week. It's free.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 18, 2012, 11:30:18 AM
FYI: The Dayton game will have video streamed from the Dayton Football web site. I watched some of the Morehead game last week. It's free.
Good to know. Thanks!
Anyone else having problems getting the video for the game at Dayton to work? I can at least listen to the game on the WAKE FM app. For those who remember, I didn't have a smartphone for the apps, but I broke down over the summer and purchased an iPod Touch, which has been awesome. Need to get something going in Dayton, stupid penalties being our downfall already.
I guess I just needed to wait a few more minutes, as the video is now up. Let's Go Crusaders!!
It is working for me - the Crusader look brutal. too many penalties. I feel soory for Iklow doing the broadcast. He sounds like he is ready for the bus to be warmup.
Another 3 and out.
I just can't watch these guys play, they are so bad. It doesn't help that our playcall does not set us up for success. You want to get a few yards on first down to open up your second and third down plays, but we never gain on first!!!
I might have to join some of the calls...next coach
Dayton 31 Valpo 0 - half
Total offense 341-65
So much for progress...
Quote from: valpotx on October 20, 2012, 12:54:18 PM
I just can't watch these guys play, they are so bad. It doesn't help that our playcall does not set us up for success. You want to get a few yards on first down to open up your second and third down plays, but we never gain on first!!!
I might have to join some of the calls...next coach
We have more penalty yards (67) than offense (65) in the first half. Its hard for me to watch such undisciplined football!!! Its one thing to get beat by a better team, but to play undisciplined football is unacceptable and embarrassing!
Yeah, this "progression" has definitely flat-lined. I feel it is unfair to these players to keep running the same stuff that doesn't work, or play the same undisciplined players just because they are "the best at grasping the system". If they really are the best players at grasping the system, then why do we keep seeing regression and lack of discipline on the snap counts, or in blocking to open up spaces for our running game to get some yards?
Can't wait to read the next infomercial blog from Coach Carlson on this latest debacle. I am sure to hear " they must maintain focus", or something to that extent.
Quote from: milanmiracle on October 16, 2012, 11:22:58 PM
They'll hang around this weekend, and hopefully be competetive for at least a half, but there's no win here. I know people want to get excited after last week, but let's remember they've won 1 game in 2 1/2 years. 3 wins this season? Highly unlikely.
That said, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel?
Dayton 42
Valpo 17
I shall not be fooled again. Fool me once...
The light at the end of the tunnel is...a train.
Yeah, Coach Carlson is definitely making a lot of excuses for why these guys lack the discipline and focus to improve more than just "baby steps". I kinda wonder if Coach Carlson thought he was coaching the softball team, because they sure don't look like football players. Hell, at this point, take the pads off these guys and put them out on a cross country course. Make them run... They certainly don't want to improve against teams they should be improving against.
Let's not compare our football team to our softball team, which is a program that wins :).
On a positive note, where our Punter graduates, we should easily recruit another one with how much opportunity he will get...
Wow, pathetic. Basically back-to-back 80 yard TD runs.
Time to take the pads away, and give them the intramural pennies and flags. If they aren't going to hit anyone, they might well trying grabbing for flags.
It's just sad watching these last few drives, as they are running the SAME play over and over to different sides with their 5th string RB, but still averaging close to 10 yds/carry.
Quote from: milanmiracle on October 16, 2012, 11:22:58 PMThey'll hang around this weekend, and hopefully be competetive for at least a half, but there's no win here. I know people want to get excited after last week, but let's remember they've won 1 game in 2 1/2 years. 3 wins this season? Highly unlikely. That said, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel? Dayton 42 Valpo 17
It looks like I will win the prize for closest score. I over estimated them. I think it is time for a change, I don't care what happens in the rest of the season. This is brutal.
4:44 left in Q4.
Net rushing yards:
VU - 74
UD - 471
Total Yards:
VU - 152
UD - 629
Nuff said :(
no red zone today. How good is Dayton?
At the the QB in now (Schaeffer) is named after a classic cheap beer...
45-0 final. Over 600 yards allowed, nearly 500 on the ground alone, and their top rushers had 10+ yards per carry... wow
On another note, I enjoy StatBroadcast live stats for football. I've seen a lot of other schools start using it for their other sports and I find it very efficient and effective.
Carlson is on his third defensive coordinator, fourth special teams coordinator and second WR coach in just three seasons. Time to question his leadership ability. Does not appear to have what it takes to be a head coach in the PFL. We need someone who can adapt and rally the team. He is not the answer.
Some of the coaching changes in the assistants is probably due to lack of real money to pay them what they are worth as "part-time" coaches. I mean when the assistants barely make enough to make it worth leaving a full-time job during the day, why would they want to stay at VU?
Quote from: valporun on October 20, 2012, 02:52:27 PMSome of the coaching changes in the assistants is probably due to lack of real money to pay them what they are worth as "part-time" coaches. I mean when the assistants barely make enough to make it worth leaving a full-time job during the day, why would they want to stay at VU?
So again, is Valpo committed to Div. 1 non-scholarship football?
Five fulltime coaches left the program. They were not underpaid part time or volunteer coaches. From my understanding Carlson's coaching budget was significantly more than past head coaches at Valpo. Hard to build a program with a revolving door of coaches.
Quote from: 90 on October 20, 2012, 03:00:59 PMFive fulltime coaches left the program. They were not underpaid part time or volunteer coaches. From my understanding Carlson's coaching budget was significantly more than past head coaches at Valpo. Hard to build a program with a revolving door of coaches.
What was the cause of these coaches leaving? Insufficiently pay? Conflict?
Quote from: 90 on October 20, 2012, 03:00:59 PM
Five fulltime coaches left the program. They were not underpaid part time or volunteer coaches. From my understanding Carlson's coaching budget was significantly more than past head coaches at Valpo. Hard to build a program with a revolving door of coaches.
Stacy Adams, now at East Chicago Central, is now 9-1. He took over a HS program that was in shambles three years ago. He has a junior loaded team and has progressed each season I believe. Adams' record at VU was pretty poor, but they won some games and they were competitive in many right until he left. Maybe he did the best with the talent he had on game day. I remember seeing Bobby Wisocki make a difference at a game at Marist in 2009 in a losing effort (but not an embarrassing blowout). He gradually disappeared as a junior and was hardly ever on the field as a senior. But, who knows? Yet, one wonders in hindsight if Adams could have straightened out the program if, in 2009, he was provided the resources that were provided Coach Carlson in terms of added funding, recruiting budget, uniforms, etc. that we've seen over the past 2 1/2 years? It all comes down to game day preparation and execution. Very little differentiates this team from the previous two in that all-important area.
Quote from: 90 on October 20, 2012, 03:00:59 PM
Five fulltime coaches left the program. They were not underpaid part time or volunteer coaches. From my understanding Carlson's coaching budget was significantly more than past head coaches at Valpo. Hard to build a program with a revolving door of coaches.
But is that enough to keep them around? It may be more than before, but is it now just inadequate vs. woefully inadequate? I don't know?
Well all I have to say is thank God basketball season is right around the corner :thumbsup:
Quote from: LukePurcy on October 20, 2012, 05:00:18 PM
Well all I have to say is thank God basketball season is right around the corner :thumbsup:
Some would say football never started.
From the ESPN recap..."Dayton rolled up 473 yards on the ground, compared to just 76 for the Crusaders (0-7, 0-4). Dayton finished with 631 total yards, the most since it became a non-scholarship program in 1977, with Valparaiso amassing only 164."
473 allowed on the ground!?! Seriously?
Yeah, they had about 5 running backs attack us, and two of them had TD runs of about 80 yards each, and they just kept running the ball on us.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 20, 2012, 03:28:50 PM
Stacy Adams, now at East Chicago Central, is now 9-1. He took over a HS program that was in shambles three years ago. He has a junior loaded team and has progressed each season I believe. Adams' record at VU was pretty poor, but they won some games and they were competitive in many right until he left. Maybe he did the best with the talent he had on game day. I remember seeing Bobby Wisocki make a difference at a game at Marist in 2009 in a losing effort (but not an embarrassing blowout). He gradually disappeared as a junior and was hardly ever on the field as a senior. But, who knows? Yet, one wonders in hindsight if Adams could have straightened out the program if, in 2009, he was provided the resources that were provided Coach Carlson in terms of added funding, recruiting budget, uniforms, etc. that we've seen over the past 2 1/2 years? It all comes down to game day preparation and execution. Very little differentiates this team from the previous two in that all-important area.
There was a great article about Coach Adams and his HS team in the Post-Tribune on Friday. Copy and paste this into your browser adding an "http://" at the beginning after you paste. Since I can't post external links yet because I'm new to the forum, you have to do it this way.
posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/highschools/15834174-419/timeout-football-east-chicago-coach-stacy-adams-enjoying-a-season-to-savor.html
The football discussion gets pretty heated at times which I can see when I'm reading. Coach Carlson has definitely seen how Division I non-scholarship football can be a challenge. After 3 seasons, I agree with those who have said some improvements should be seen by now. The extremely bad showing at Dayton is a disgrace. All the other football programs in the PFL have the same challenges so at this point there should be no excuses.
The lack of discipline and level of confusion on the field appears to be a direct reflection of coaching. This team has had the benefit of Carlson's self-touted superior recruiting and cannot even compete. I believe there are good athletes on the team, but there are fundamental coaching deficiencies. It appears that this team is no better and maybe even worse than those of the Stacy Adams era. It's time for MLB to demand some answers. He should expect more from this coaching staff for the sake of the players. Tired of watching these kids get hung out to dry week after week.
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/highschools/15834174-419/timeout-football-east-chicago-coach-stacy-adams-enjoying-a-season-to-savor.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/highschools/15834174-419/timeout-football-east-chicago-coach-stacy-adams-enjoying-a-season-to-savor.html)
Just helping out footballfan1221.
Quote from: footballfan1221 on October 20, 2012, 07:47:07 PM
There was a great article about Coach Adams and his HS team in the Post-Tribune on Friday. Copy and paste this into your browser adding an "http://" at the beginning after you paste. Since I can't post external links yet because I'm new to the forum, you have to do it this way.
posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/highschools/15834174-419/timeout-football-east-chicago-coach-stacy-adams-enjoying-a-season-to-savor.html
The football discussion gets pretty heated at times which I can see when I'm reading. Coach Carlson has definitely seen how Division I non-scholarship football can be a challenge. After 3 seasons, I agree with those who have said some improvements should be seen by now. The extremely bad showing at Dayton is a disgrace. All the other football programs in the PFL have the same challenges so at this point there should be no excuses.
Here is the link 1221. Thanks. I wanted to add that to my previous post, but I couldn't find it again after reading it on Friday -- was in a rush out the door.
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/highschools/15834174-419/timeout-football-east-chicago-coach-stacy-adams-enjoying-a-season-to-savor.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/highschools/15834174-419/timeout-football-east-chicago-coach-stacy-adams-enjoying-a-season-to-savor.html)
It talks about Adams' enthusiasm and getting the most out of a limited number of kids compared to other programs in ECC's level of competition.
What we all fail to realize is that Coach Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo.
Quote from: mj on October 20, 2012, 10:39:40 PM
What we all fail to realize is that Coach Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo.
And sadly, you're probably right.
I am glad to see Adams doing well in the HS coaching ranks as he is a nice/positive guy...however, he is not a D-1 level head coach at any level either (D-1, D-1AA, D-1AA non-scholarship).
By-The-Way and in retrospect, here was the NWITimes pregame scouting report:
Valparaiso will win if: It can continue the spirited effort it displayed last week against Drake. The Crusaders have gotten their hardest Pioneer Football League contests out of the way, and now it's time to start learning from the tough defeats.
Dayton will win if: It continues the offensive explosion from last week. The Flyers rolled up 532 yards of offense in a 41-27 win over Morehead State. Will Bardo moves the Dayton offense through the air (1,127 passing yards) as well as on the ground (290 rushing yards, three touchdowns).
:-X
To say that Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo maybe true, but to quote Herm Edwards...
"YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!"
That's a bad attitude to have as an athletic department and university if your main focus isn't to win in football since you are spending lots of money to fund the football program
Quote from: LukePurcy on October 21, 2012, 04:47:39 PM
To say that Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo maybe true, but to quote Herm Edwards...
"YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!"
That's a bad attitude to have as an athletic department and university if your main focus isn't to win in football since you are spending lots of money to fund the football program
:clap: :clap:
Quote from: LukePurcy on October 21, 2012, 04:47:39 PM
To say that Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo maybe true, but to quote Herm Edwards...
"YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!"
That's a bad attitude to have as an athletic department and university if your main focus isn't to win in football since you are spending lots of money to fund the football program
And you saw this information where? If winning wasn't important I think the head coaches name would still be Adams. The change was made for a reason. Winning is important it just isn't happening now. If it doesn't happen soon perhaps you will see another coaching change. I would guess that Coach Carlson has a five year contract. This is year three. I don't have any inside info on this, just a guess.
Sorry to say, but 1-28 is not progressing, it is degressing. However, much of this is because Valpo is not committed to football. They currently have a program only because it is a university feature to attract students. Let's be realistic here.
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 21, 2012, 07:07:40 PM
Sorry to say, but 1-28 is not progressing, it is degressing. However, much of this is because Valpo is not committed to football. They currently have a program only because it is a university feature to attract students. Let's be realistic here.
That's an issue that the administration must face head-on at the end of this season (not next year or in the next two years because the bleeding is now torrential) at two levels:
(1) They must look at themselves: Has the university adequately invested in the program to allow it to continue?
(2) They must look at the program: Has the coaching provided the necessary elements to allow the students who have been recruited to play for VU to compete at a PFL level each Saturday?
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 20, 2012, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: valporun on October 20, 2012, 02:52:27 PMSome of the coaching changes in the assistants is probably due to lack of real money to pay them what they are worth as "part-time" coaches. I mean when the assistants barely make enough to make it worth leaving a full-time job during the day, why would they want to stay at VU?
So again, is Valpo committed to Div. 1 non-scholarship football?
Quote from: mj on October 20, 2012, 10:39:40 PM
What we all fail to realize is that Coach Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo.
Quote from: 90 on October 20, 2012, 08:25:28 PM
The lack of discipline and level of confusion on the field appears to be a direct reflection of coaching. This team has had the benefit of Carlson's self-touted superior recruiting and cannot even compete. I believe there are good athletes on the team, but there are fundamental coaching deficiencies. It appears that this team is no better and maybe even worse than those of the Stacy Adams era. It's time for MLB to demand some answers. He should expect more from this coaching staff for the sake of the players. Tired of watching these kids get hung out to dry week after week.
I certianly hope for the sake of the young men on our football team that the administration has their back! They deserve respect for all the time and committment (and tuition!!!!) that they have given this university. I won't allow myself to think that the christian leaders of this university would use these young men for monetary gains. The boys are giving there heart and soul to the program and its time the administration did the same.
Good perspective Willy. I agree. It's college; it's about the kids. If you commit to D-I (scholarship or not), then friggin commit to D-I.
The boys on this team are playing hurt and giving their all for the cause. Many could have had full rides to D2 schools but chose Valpo. Whether it be for the educational respect that Valpo has or the fact that they thought that they could be a part of turning around a program, which was a recruiting selling point. It is hard to watch. We have high school programs here that can compete with what I saw yesterday. Please dont bash the athletes. They see the benefits that the other sports receive ( a free ride, better housing, etc) and question why they chose Valpo! But, they show up for practice, everyday!
There are 4 games left. The team wants to win! For you! These are your fellow classmates. I urge you to support them like you do priveleged basketball players. A few football wins would mean more to the school down the road than basketball being bumped in the conference tourney. And they are in school for FREE!
And this is coming from someone that received a full athletic scholarship! Here is to consitent play and progress on both sides of the ball!
Yes, it is! And its coming from someone that is paying a full tab for their son to play there!
Funding to FB was definitely increased when Carlson was hired. Recruiting went to all official visits to entice better athletes. The players receive a nice set of Nike gear including cleats each August. Official visits are expensive especially when many are flown in. The recruits and parents receive lodging and meals for their weekend stays. The administration appears to be committed to improving the program. There is still obviously a ways to go, but it all can't be done at once. That said, after three years we should be better than this. Two full years of Carlson's recruiting strategy has not paid off. Either the right type of players are still not finding their way to Valpo or this staff is not coaching them to their full potential. We should not still be hearing about baby steps in his blogs. The excuses are getting old. Hopefully a coaching change will be made sooner rather than later if things do not dramatically improve through the final four games. This program cannot survive another two years of the status quo. Will be interesting to see how many players leave after this season. Mass exodus year after year cannot be good for university stats.
Quote from: FloridaFootball on October 21, 2012, 08:54:27 PM
The boys on this team are playing hurt and giving their all for the cause. Many could have had full rides to D2 schools but chose Valpo. Whether it be for the educational respect that Valpo has or the fact that they thought that they could be a part of turning around a program, which was a recruiting selling point. It is hard to watch. We have high school programs here that can compete with what I saw yesterday. Please dont bash the athletes. They see the benefits that the other sports receive ( a free ride, better housing, etc) and question why they chose Valpo! But, they show up for practice, everyday!
Welcome to the forum Florida. Thank you for your perspective. I don't think for a moment that the comments in this string or other FB strings are pointed directly at the kids. No one questions their heart. There
is talent there. They
do show up. They work year-round. All the off-season stuff is probably better organized than what existed three years ago. The frustration you are witnessing is, IMO, directed at the staff's inability over almost three full seasons to get the best out of these kids on each Saturday. Is it the "system" that has been debated here? Is it game time and in-game decisions? Is it player selection? Is it game preparation? None of us here will really know.
But we look at other PFL teams and see progress. Some teams progress farther than others, but VU's progress remains consistently static, if not regressive, and the results are non-competitive despite media releases that talk about the higher level of athleticism of each entering class.
In 2010, with the remnants of the 2009 team, it was the lack of talent. In 2011 we were too young (but won one game). This season we are told that we are still young and are not disciplined. We are inconsistent. Gotta ask: Do the 11 kids on the field at any one time say "today I will be inconsistent" or " on this play I will be undisciplined," or "at this point in the game I will ignore what I was told to do"? Doubt it.
By now, the Points Against per game should be significantly lower. VU should still be at least in each game at the half. The balance that we saw against Drake should be a weekly expectation. The record may not be a winning record but almost every game should be closer than what it was the year before. We should at least be able to beat a D-III team and in season three beat a mediocre D-II team at home.
No, Florida, at this point, it's not the kids.
Quote from: FloridaFootball on October 21, 2012, 08:54:27 PM
A few football wins would mean more to the school down the road than basketball being bumped in the conference tourney.
A football win or two will never mean more then any basketball game at Valpo. That said, let's hope they can end on a high note and have something to build on during the basketball, umm I mean offseason.
Quote from: LukePurcy on October 21, 2012, 04:47:39 PMTo say that Carlson's job isn't to win football games but rather to keep a full roster of football players that pay full tuition to go to Valpo maybe true, but to quote Herm Edwards... "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!" That's a bad attitude to have as an athletic department and university if your main focus isn't to win in football since you are spending lots of money to fund the football program
They may be spending some money on football but not as much as the kids are paying to play.
QuoteThey may be spending some money on football but not as much as the kids are paying to play.
An interesting hypothesis. Let's test it out:
- 95 on the roster.
- The university can expect to gross $32,250 (tuition plus general fee). (R&B not included because not germane.)
- However, the average financial aid package runs about $25k, acc. to VU themselves, and about 90% of students receive aid.
- Let's say that the average financial aid package is half grant, half loan, so VU still nets half of that at the end of the
day semester, or $12.5K plus the difference of $7.25K for a total of $19.75K. (Source: http://www.valpo.edu/financialaid/costs/estimatedcosts.php (http://www.valpo.edu/financialaid/costs/estimatedcosts.php))
So $[10%(95)*32250]+[90%(95)*19750]=306,375+1,688,625=
$1.995 million.
Again, for the sake of argument, VU could be said to gross almost $2 million on football
players alone. This is not counting other income for the program, which would primarily consist of ticket sales, I expect, since broadcast rights are not really happening. In comparison to this figure, however, other income would seem negligible.
Against this, we would have to estimate the cost of coaching staff and equipment and travel and conference fees...half a road trip to San Diego every year, not to mention other places besides. Here I don't have a feel for what the expenses are, or size of traveling squad, etc.
Of course, all of this is somewhat to assume that VU is in some way obligated to put the $2 million towards football. Since this isn't Ohio, "playing school" is not an option. (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8466428/ohio-state-buckeyes-cardale-jones-tweets-classes-pointless (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8466428/ohio-state-buckeyes-cardale-jones-tweets-classes-pointless)). So a good deal of that money goes to pay for the other things besides football that they consume on campus, primarily faculty salary, not just coaching. And it should.
Thoughts?
Nice analysis, and in general I agree. Now, on to expenses. This year is a down year for travel as trips to YSU and Dayton are bus rides (still not free) with two flights to San Diego and Campbell. These aren't charters I'm guessing and we fly how many? Probably 40. then there are 9 coaches and an admin person, plus equipment--each player (95?) gets a pair of shoes etc.
On the income side don't forget about the YSU pay day.
I believe that room and board also need to be included in the equation, which adds almost $900K in revenue.
mj, while true, don't forget that starting sophomore year, football players in frats can choose to live in the frat house, meaning that the university can lose that income, if they don't own the property. Plus, the impact of any juniors/seniors that live in an off-campus apartment.
Yes, all the "net income" calculations pay off to VU. They also pay off in the same way to other PFL teams, if not more so because kids "want" to play for a Dayton or Drake and might ante up a bit more net tuition to get that experience.
But why do Butler and those two recruit so much better even though they cannot give "athletic scholarships." I suspect the first answer primarily is winning tradition.
But two other reasons are possibilities. 1) Boring campus culture oriented to music/drama over sports-----even basketball doesn't draw well. 2) Recruting strategies and leveraging scholarships. Dayton is bigger and can afford to eat more net tuition by giving larger "general" grants on broader criteria. 3) Butler and Drake probably have built up good "pipelines" and parent networks in the weathier suburbs of Chicago. That is how they can draw the lower D-2 caliber guys who are also in the good student/"able to pay" combo. I don't see Valpo using that focus to pipeline Chicago. Due to the hour drive they should be able to do so but they are not. Their roster is a big scramble all over the country. No ability to build pipelines in that strategy and you rack up costs.
Drake is located in Des Moine, Iowa. Enough said. Okay, a little more info. It's 3.5 hours to Minneapolis and 5.5 hours to Chicago. Des Moine is about 200,000, but, still in Iowa.
Not sure of your point when you say, "Nuff Said" about Drake being in Iowa. Do you know any facts?
Ther Drake roster has more than 35 players from the Chicago area. Nearly all come from prosperous suburbs where parents can probably afford a good chunk of the tuition. When you current those type of kids you are not only building a football team you are building a future alumni base.
I stopped counting at 35. I don't know how many are on the VU roster, but shouldn't we outrecruit them when we are less than 100 miles away from those suburbs? Drive there and stop flying all the hell over the country for random kids who don't know each other are will likely keep any ties to VU.
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 23, 2012, 09:18:28 AM
Not sure of your point when you say, "Nuff Said" about Drake being in Iowa. Do you know any facts?
Ther Drake roster has more than 35 players from the Chicago area. Nearly all come from prosperous suburbs where parents can probably afford a good chunk of the tuition. When you current those type of kids you are not only building a football team you are building a future alumni base.
I stopped counting at 35. I don't know how many are on the VU roster, but shouldn't we outrecruit them when we are less than 100 miles away from those suburbs? Drive there and stop flying all the hell over the country for random kids who don't know each other are will likely keep any ties to VU.
I counted 30 on our roster from Illinois, many of whom our from Chicago area. Without taking the time to check on "wealthy" areas, I did note some from areas like Skokie and Evanston.
My comment on Iowa was a bit "tongue in cheek" as you mentioned that a drawback for Valpo might be its "boring campus". Drakes campus is about a third the size of Valpo's and as for parents be willing to pay a little more to go there, it actually costs about 3,000 a year less according to the US News information.
Perhaps that is part of why they can attract more players, who knows.
And as for building loyal alumni, even though their student body is bigger, their endowment is about 50 million less than ours. So much for loyalty.
I noticed that Coach Carlson hasn't released his latest Blog recapping the Dayton game. I was looking forward to reading his take on this game and where he thought the issues might have been.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on October 22, 2012, 09:35:21 AM
QuoteThey may be spending some money on football but not as much as the kids are paying to play.
An interesting hypothesis. Let's test it out:
- 95 on the roster.
- The university can expect to gross $32,250 (tuition plus general fee). (R&B not included because not germane.)
- However, the average financial aid package runs about $25k, acc. to VU themselves, and about 90% of students receive aid.
- Let's say that the average financial aid package is half grant, half loan, so VU still nets half of that at the end of the
day semester, or $12.5K plus the difference of $7.25K for a total of $19.75K. (Source: http://www.valpo.edu/financialaid/costs/estimatedcosts.php (http://www.valpo.edu/financialaid/costs/estimatedcosts.php))
So $[10%(95)*32250]+[90%(95)*19750]=306,375+1,688,625=$1.995 million.
Again, for the sake of argument, VU could be said to gross almost $2 million on football players alone. This is not counting other income for the program, which would primarily consist of ticket sales, I expect, since broadcast rights are not really happening. In comparison to this figure, however, other income would seem negligible.
Against this, we would have to estimate the cost of coaching staff and equipment and travel and conference fees...half a road trip to San Diego every year, not to mention other places besides. Here I don't have a feel for what the expenses are, or size of traveling squad, etc.
Of course, all of this is somewhat to assume that VU is in some way obligated to put the $2 million towards football. Since this isn't Ohio, "playing school" is not an option. (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8466428/ohio-state-buckeyes-cardale-jones-tweets-classes-pointless (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8466428/ohio-state-buckeyes-cardale-jones-tweets-classes-pointless)). So a good deal of that money goes to pay for the other things besides football that they consume on campus, primarily faculty salary, not just coaching. And it should.
Thoughts?
IMO, from a revenue standpoint, with the push to increase student enrollment to 6,000 students over the next few years, your analysis may be rendered much less important. Football, from a tuition revenue standpoint, may become more ancillary as a moneymaker than it is now. With the exception of basketball, like all other sports at VU football will never garner major revenue to justify its existence other than tuition payments. It's just not going to happen. There may (or may not) be some value in maintaining football independent of tuition revenue from a Title IX standpoint but that aspect may be hard to value in real dollars.
Consider that VU could disband its football program in its entirety, enroll 150 online students who pay full or partially reduced tuition, and most likely would very easily recoup the tuition lost from revenue that was realized from former player tuition dollars. For the record, I am not advocating the dropping of the program. I'm just pointing out that a $2M dollar figure, a $2.2M dollar figure with body bag opponents, or even a $3.2M dollar figure with housing may not be as significant as it seems, all things being equal.
So $[10%(95)*32250]+[90%(95)*19750]=306,375+1,688,625=$1.995 million.
I was told there would be no math...
Quote from: milanmiracle on October 24, 2012, 08:15:00 AM
I noticed that Coach Carlson hasn't released his latest Blog recapping the Dayton game. I was looking forward to reading his take on this game and where he thought the issues might have been.
Thursday noon. Still no Dayton recap. But what can be said that hasn't been said numerous times before?
Don't know anything about other injuries going into the game, but noted that Hoffman and Ali-El didn't play.
Also noted from the box score:The first five UD drives all ended in scores.
VU had 6 three-and-outs out of 14 possessions (4 in the 1st half); UD had 3 out of 13 (1 in 1st half)
11 VU punts to 3 for UD
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 25, 2012, 12:36:39 PMDon't know anything about other injuries going into the game, but noted that Hoffman and Ali-El didn't play.
There are several more injuries or something going on that are never reported.
Sean Cook a two year starter at OT was mentioned as hurt pre-season, no update
Bryce Dempsey played in the first 2 games made 8 tackles and has never been heard from again
Alex Green played in the first 5 made 15 tackles, same disappearance
Ryan Mundy, the opposite, a starter late last season he did not play in the first 5, nothing mentioned, now he does
It is really hard to follow...