Based on our performace so far VU is in deep sneakers:
Dayton 45, Valparaiso 0 *
Drake 34, Marist 27 * (OT)
San Diego 24, Jacksonville 7 *
Davidson 28, Campbell 21 *
Butler 39, Morehead State 35 *
Only one game that was not competitive. Guess which one?
Davidson won a game against Campbell who got 21 on the board. MSU scored 35 points on Butler who embarrassed us at homecoming, and Marist took Drake to OT before losing by a TD.
OMG. Time to look at the 2013 season or the absence of football from the Valpo campus for the first time in 92 years.
Marist 28
Valpo 13
Luckily men's basketball has their first exhibition game later on Saturday. Not a big embarrassment in this one but I'll be surprised if Valpo keeps it close.
Marist 35
Valpo 13
I've been at two Marist games live. They pin their ears back and come after you every play - O or D. We better be prepared.
Valpo -2
Marist 114
What's the point anymore? They're going to lose, most likely in embarrassing fashion and we'll get some more great quotes about finishing tackles or courage or commitment.
My actual guess...
Valpo 7
Marist 42
Morale is shot. And why not?
Marist seems more like the top of division than the bottom.
42-3.
Marist 38
Valpo 7
Marist 31
Valpo 17
Marist 40
Valpo 7
Just like Keith Freeman, I'm afraid Dale Carlson has lost the will of his players to win. It's time to find another football coach at the end of the season.
FYI Here are the Marist wins/losses:
W(A) -- Marist 35 Bryant (NEC ) 10
L(H) -- Marist 17 Bucknell (Patriot League) 19
L (A) -- Marist 9 Columbia (Ivy) 10
W (H) -- Marist 34 Davidson 21
L (A) -- Marist 14 Jacksonville 26
L (H) -- Marist 14 Butler 17
L (A) -- Marist 27 Drake 34 (OT) [Marist led at one point 27-3]
I'd love to have Marist's record right now -- talk about competitive. They are never out of any game. I could take all those close losses and build on them if I was Valpo. But you can't build on weekly blow-outs. They scored 34 against Davidson. They'll score even more on Saturday.
BTW Marist fields 21 men's and women's varsity D-I teams (to VU's 17). Left NEC football when the NEC went scholarship. 4,536 under grads. $147 million endowment (according to Wiki).
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 26, 2012, 08:30:31 AM
FYI Here are the Marist wins/losses:
W(A) -- Marist 35 Bryant (NEC ) 10
L(H) -- Marist 17 Bucknell (Patriot League) 19
L (A) -- Marist 9 Columbia (Ivy) 10
W (H) -- Marist 34 Davidson 21
L (A) -- Marist 14 Jacksonville 26
L (H) -- Marist 14 Butler 17
L (A) -- Marist 27 Drake 34 (OT) [Marist led at one point 27-3]
I'd love to have Marist's record right now -- talk about competitive. They are never out of any game. I could take all those close losses and build on them if I was Valpo. But you can't build on weekly blow-outs. They scored 34 against Davidson. They'll score even more on Saturday.
BTW Marist fields 21 men's and women's varsity D-I teams (to VU's 17). Left NEC football when the NEC went scholarship. 4,536 under grads. $147 million endowment (according to Wiki).
I totally agree. Marist has been in every game and what more could you ask for. People from Marist on the Pioneer football fan board are asking for change in there coaching staff. They are 2-5 but easily could be 6-1. Does anyone know Valpos endowment?
Valpo's endowment is around $170 million.
Makes ya wonder how other schools can make it work and VU can't.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 26, 2012, 02:20:29 PM
Makes ya wonder how other schools can make it work and VU can't.
AMEN VULB#62!!!!!!
are they over tithing to the church?
OK...I'll take a crack at the score...
Marist 54
Valpo 10
Score at the half: Marist 30 Valpo 0
First Half Scoring Summary:
M - 97 yard pass
M - 85 yard run
M - 78 yard pass
M - 96 yard run
Hm..... qualifies as a balanced attack.
M - 483 yards total offense | Valpo 221
:whiteflag:
cornonthe may have the closest pick today - it's 30-0 at half in favor of Marist. They have had 4 TD plays of 70+ yards. Simply brutal. I feel bad again for Iclow trying to keep a positive face on this.
are you guys sure that there does not need to be a coaching change?
30-0 halftime. Guess who's ahead? I just got back from the mall and read through the game stats and some play-by-play so that's my perspective on what I'm saying next...
You can't get in the red zone twice and posses the ball for roughly 2/3 of the half and have no points. If we're not kicking a 20-yard field goal down 9 points early in the game, when are we ever going to kick a field goal? I don't know why we insist on going on 4th down so much on those kinds of plays, but I've said a week or two ago and I'll say it again, I'll take 3 over a 4th down attempt just to keep a try for 7 alive. Surely we can make a chip shot like that, surely we can actually play the situation one of the these days instead always going for the gusto...
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 27, 2012, 02:11:41 PM
cornonthe may have the closest pick today - it's 30-0 at half in favor of Marist. They have had 4 TD plays of 70+ yards. Simply brutal. I feel bad again for Iclow trying to keep a positive face on this.
The sad part to all of this is nobody is surprised anymore. 30-0...just another day of Valpo football under the current staff.
As is often the case, my misery has inspired me to look in the records for some facts...
Since our last PFL championship in 2003 under Tom Horne, we have not had a winning season. Between Horne, Stacy Adams, and Dale Carlson, Valpo football has had only 21 wins in a little more than eight seasons, counting the "progress" in this year's schedule. Here's the kicker: Of all our wins in the last 8+ years, only 9 have been to NCAA Division I opponents. Most of our wins have come against teams like Wisconsin Lutheran, Aurora, and Concordia Wisconsin. Why can't we beat anybody good anymore?
Oh, and we finally scored, 37-7 middle 3rd. Plus no VU penalties!
Quote from: milanmiracle on October 27, 2012, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 27, 2012, 02:11:41 PM
cornonthe may have the closest pick today - it's 30-0 at half in favor of Marist. They have had 4 TD plays of 70+ yards. Simply brutal. I feel bad again for Iclow trying to keep a positive face on this.
The sad part to all of this is nobody is surprised anymore. 30-0...just another day of Valpo football under the current staff.
not just the current staff, but pretty much par for the course over the last half dozen years or so (aside from i believe 07 when we managed to go 5-6).
44 to 7. Not terribly surprised.
For those who want to spin this into a positive, they only got out scored 14-7 in the second half. I am sure Valpo just needs to continue that focus demonstrated in the second half, finish plays, and remain positive for next weeks game.
Quote from: milanmiracle on October 21, 2012, 08:10:23 PM
Valpo -2
Marist 114
What's the point anymore? They're going to lose, most likely in embarrassing fashion and we'll get some more great quotes about finishing tackles or courage or commitment.
My actual guess...
Valpo 7
Marist 42
Not too far off if I may say so myself. :)
*obviously not the -2 to 114, though I wouldnt have been too surprised either.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 27, 2012, 02:10:59 PM
Score at the half: Marist 30 Valpo 0
First Half Scoring Summary:
M - 97 yard pass
M - 85 yard run
M - 78 yard pass
M - 96 yard run
Hm..... qualifies as a balanced attack.
M - 483 yards total offense | Valpo 221
:whiteflag:
I was looking at these as well. I tried to find any stats in FCS for scoring plays greater than 70 yards, especially at the team level. How many times in a season, on average, does a team have a scoring play from scrimage greater than 70 yards? We give up four in a half?
Marist was a team we should have been competitive with, at least for the first half. Marist starts 4 drives within their own 10 yard line, never running more than 4 plays, and scores a TD on each drive. To top it off, the last drive in the first half, Marist starts at their 4 yard line and tries to run out the clock with a rushing play - and we let him go 96 yards for a TD. Unbelievable!
The defense is not making improvements from last year. Plays longer than 20 yards from scrimage are killing us. Our third down percentage on O and D are a little better than last year, but need to improve. Our time of possession is better, but is that because we give up big scoring plays to get the ball back? When we do move the ball on offense, we can't seem to score.
With the number of Fr and So on the two deep roster, Carlson's previous record, and the fact that VU gave Horne three years (2-27-1), I'm still in favor of giving Carlson more time. My position may change over the last few games of the season, though.
I think you are being too kind covufan. Carlson's record is 1-29. What reason would anyone remain patient with this?
There should be a high level of soul searching regarding having football at Valpo. This is brutal.
Another week, same story. Same Carlson quotes about being inconsistent and giving up the big plays. Too far into his Valpo career to be saying these things week after week. These are his recruited players who are obviously not responding to his teaching. Young or not, they need to be at least competitive. This game was painful to watch - again. . . . Please, MLB, do something! Hold this guy accountable!
You have to make a change. The reality is in our D-1 games this year (not St. Joe) we have been outscored 335 to 76.
It's not getting better. We will be playing the bottom 3 teams now to wrap up the year so we could win one again. But those are road games.
The die has been cast.
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 27, 2012, 07:42:45 PM
It's not getting better. We will be playing the bottom 3 teams now to wrap up the year so we could win one again. But those are road games.
Bottom Three?
Morehead beat
Campbell 70-28
The Morehead State football team closed out Saturday afternoon's game with 35 unanswered en route to a 70-28 clobbering of Campbell before a crowd of 7,300 at Jayne Stadium.
Score by Quarters 1 2 3 4 Score
Campbell 7 14 7 0 28
Morehead State 14 21 21 14 70
But Campbell was only down by 14 at the half.
Davidson stayed with Butler losing in a competitive game 20-31. At one point it was only 24-17 Butler. Davidson kicked 2 FGs.
Scoring 1 2 3 4 Final
Butler (7-2) 3 21 0 7 31
Davidson (1-7) 7 3 7 3 20
We remain after three years the least competitive football program in the PFL. In my Bill Snyder K-State post, he states that one of his goals is to get just a bit better than the day before. I cannot say that for Valpo this year and despite a win last year, there was very little improvement game to game after the first season where expectations were rightfully low. It has got to be the coaching, because the consensus is that the recruited talent HAS gotten better in the last two years. And then there's my pet peeve: From day one it was all about the offensive system. You heard very little about the D. And when the scores were in the stratosphere, it was because the O couldn't maintain ball control. To turn around a program you need to first stop the bleeding -- play tough defense, hope the O can get you some points, but stay in every friggin game. Ain't happening and hasn't in three years.
That 4th down attempt on Marist's 2 yard line when we were down 9-0 seemed to spark something in the Foxes. How can we not attempt to get what should be 'gimme' points by FG that early in a game??
It's was 4th and a foot at the one and a half yard line. One area where Valpo has been good all year is picking up a foot when needed. Honestly going for it seemed like the logical call. We had picked up two yards on third and one with the exact same play call earlier in the quarter.
Quote from: KL31NY on October 27, 2012, 02:19:28 PM
30-0 halftime. Guess who's ahead? I just got back from the mall and read through the game stats and some play-by-play so that's my perspective on what I'm saying next...
You can't get in the red zone twice and posses the ball for roughly 2/3 of the half and have no points. If we're not kicking a 20-yard field goal down 9 points early in the game, when are we ever going to kick a field goal? I don't know why we insist on going on 4th down so much on those kinds of plays, but I've said a week or two ago and I'll say it again, I'll take 3 over a 4th down attempt just to keep a try for 7 alive. Surely we can make a chip shot like that, surely we can actually play the situation one of the these days instead always going for the gusto...
Maybe they couldn't find the kicker. It happened earlier this season.
At this point Coach Carlson is basically stealing his salary from the university. Name any other person on university payroll who can have 1 success in 30 try's and still have a position. Unless they are waiting for his contract run out his rein should maybe be over.
Contract terms and conditions are a factor that none of us have a line on, so, yes, that may be a factor in any evaluations and decision. Three wins at the end of the season could shift parameters though; however, the non-competitiveness against the PFL middle teams might offset that.
BUT, having said that ....................
Of the three remaining games just Campbell is the only legit possibility for a win. They lost to D-II Shorter and barely beat NAIA Virginia-Wise 10-0 for their only win so far and VA-Wise has only won 3 games so far this season.
Davidson beat us last year at their place and also seem to be more competitive this year than last (Beat Campbell by 7 and had that close loss to Butler yesterday). At least we see them at home.
Morehead beat us convincingly on our field last year and are an improved team (lost to Butler by only 4 and Drake by 3; scored 27 on Dayton). We have to go down there -- not easy.
Beating only the fighting camels again likely won't stir the blood of potential new recruits.
Without a winning record, what do you pitch to new recruit? ----Come hang out in our union or library! We have about three dozen fireplaces and several dozen sofas. Then maybe you close hard by getting them free tickets to Saturday night poetry readings or oboe recitals?
Quote from: chef on October 27, 2012, 11:19:06 PM
It's was 4th and a foot at the one and a half yard line. One area where Valpo has been good all year is picking up a foot when needed. Honestly going for it seemed like the logical call. We had picked up two yards on third and one with the exact same play call earlier in the quarter.
I can understand that. Speaking earlier just with what gametracker was giving me (4th-and-1 at the 2), I would have gone with a FG no questions asked. I like getting points on the board, and down 9-3 with nearly 3 whole quarters left wouldn't sound so bad. If I was on the sidelines with everything building up to that play to account for, I would want to go for it but I'm not sure if I would make that call. But I have never been and probably never will be qualified to be a football coach and to ever deal with a situation like that in reality... just my two cents
"Beating only the fighting camels again likely won't stir the blood of potential new recruits.
Without a winning record, what do you pitch to new recruit? ----Come hang out in our union or library! We have about three dozen fireplaces and several dozen sofas. Then maybe you close hard by getting them free tickets to Saturday night poetry readings or oboe recitals?"
So....... what does BB use to attract recruits?
(1) a very good academic reputation,
(2) a competitive, winning program,
(3) a very good D-I mid-major league
(4) professionally experienced coaches,
(5) attractive schedule,
(6) nice locker rooms and training facilities, and
(7) a pretty nice 5,000+ seat venue.
What can FB offer recruits ? (1) and (5). Partial credit for (2) would have been allocated if the team was competitive in most of its games in year three of the rebuild. And, within context (non-scholarship FCS), (3) ---- in conjunction with (5).
If we want to be competitive, we need to add more of those other numbers to the profile. It's that simple.
Quote from: HC on October 28, 2012, 09:43:35 AM
At this point Coach Carlson is basically stealing his salary from the university. Name any other person on university payroll who can have 1 success in 30 try's and still have a position. Unless they are waiting for his contract run out his rein should maybe be over.
Amen, HC. Guessing he was given a five year contract. Cannot let this go on another two years. Not sure how these things work, but he is obviously not fulfilling his duties. Do we need to take up a collection for a buy out? If he is back next year, the program will be unsalvageable if it isn't already. So sad. Football at Valpo would be missed.
Attached is the points against margin and stuff updated after 8 games. Click on it to enlarge.
2011 showed improvement on both points for and points against. 2012 not so much so far.
Adam's margin was 25 in 2005 and 16.9 in 2006. He inherited a 1-10 team his first year plus the unfortunate timing of his promotion.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 28, 2012, 04:10:23 PM
"Beating only the fighting camels again likely won't stir the blood of potential new recruits.
Without a winning record, what do you pitch to new recruit? ----Come hang out in our union or library! We have about three dozen fireplaces and several dozen sofas. Then maybe you close hard by getting them free tickets to Saturday night poetry readings or oboe recitals?"
So....... what does BB use to attract recruits?
(1) a very good academic reputation,
(2) a competitive, winning program,
(3) a very good D-I mid-major league
(4) professionally experienced coaches,
(5) attractive schedule,
(6) nice locker rooms and training facilities, and
(7) a pretty nice 5,000+ seat venue.
What can FB offer recruits ? (1) and (5). Partial credit for (2) would have been allocated if the team was competitive in most of its games in year three of the rebuild. And, within context (non-scholarship FCS), (3) ---- in conjunction with (5).
If we want to be competitive, we need to add more of those other numbers to the profile. It's that simple.
I think you are underestimating (3) and overstating (6) when it comes to basketball. Basketball does have its own wing and separated practice court but the lockeroom is pretty bad. I don't know what Kronke has but presume its more than just lockers and weight lifting, I just don't know.
If our football conference was our basketball conference we would be considered the top mid-major in the country. As for scheduling, we need to remember we are after D2 and D3 kids who would be faced with a bus ride every game to a few miles down the road versus playing games--via air travel--in California, North Carolina, Florida and New York. That is a selling point, plus, they can honestly say they are playing D1. Now, the results may cause embarassment, but, my points as to recruiting are still valid.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 28, 2012, 04:10:23 PM
"Beating only the fighting camels again likely won't stir the blood of potential new recruits.
Without a winning record, what do you pitch to new recruit? ----Come hang out in our union or library! We have about three dozen fireplaces and several dozen sofas. Then maybe you close hard by getting them free tickets to Saturday night poetry readings or oboe recitals?"
So....... what does BB use to attract recruits?
(1) a very good academic reputation,
(2) a competitive, winning program,
(3) a very good D-I mid-major league
(4) professionally experienced coaches,
(5) attractive schedule,
(6) nice locker rooms and training facilities, and
(7) a pretty nice 5,000+ seat venue.
What can FB offer recruits ? (1) and (5). Partial credit for (2) would have been allocated if the team was competitive in most of its games in year three of the rebuild. And, within context (non-scholarship FCS), (3) ---- in conjunction with (5).
If we want to be competitive, we need to add more of those other numbers to the profile. It's that simple.
#7 is a joke right? Even Homer Drew has said as much in the paper that the "arena" hurt and hampered recruiting to some extent in the past.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on October 28, 2012, 09:06:49 PM#7 is a joke right? Even Homer Drew has said as much in the paper that the "arena" hurt and hampered recruiting to some extent in the past.
I don't know about football, but I would think bringing in a basketball recruit when the ARC is filled up and rocking, ala Purdue a few years back or anytime Butler was in town, would be an amazing atmosphere for a potential recruit.
Quote from: HC on October 28, 2012, 09:28:24 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on October 28, 2012, 09:06:49 PM#7 is a joke right? Even Homer Drew has said as much in the paper that the "arena" hurt and hampered recruiting to some extent in the past.
I don't know about football, but I would think bringing in a basketball recruit when the ARC is filled up and rocking, ala Purdue a few years back or anytime Butler was in town, would be an amazing atmosphere for a potential recruit.
atmosphere? yes. quality of the building? not so much. while it's greatly better than the 10k seat beaver dome on the campus of minot state, it's still not on par even with something like chaiffetz arena at st louis university. or the new gentile center (post-remodel) at loyola.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on October 28, 2012, 09:06:49 PM
#7 is a joke right? Even Homer Drew has said as much in the paper that the "arena" hurt and hampered recruiting to some extent in the past.
The qualifier in my mind was "
pretty nice and it's
5,000+ seat." It's not a band box, it' not a 1960's gym. It may not be state of the art, but in comparison with a lot of ostensibly "D-I programs," it's pretty decent. You can still bring a recruit in and show him a pretty attractive interior, lots of championship banners, and lots of empty seats that he can envision being filled and noisy. The context was in comparison to Brown Field (no track where a track is supposed to be, rusting stands that look old and abused, a tiny press box, and seating that would not even be acceptable at a good size high school). I'm thinking that the football staff kind of avoids showing off the stadium for fear of chasing away a prospect.
There are definitely many D-1 schools that have less capacity, and much worse looking buildings.
QuoteMichigan offers a preferred walk-on spot to 2013 Leslie (MI) OL Bruce Hall, per Allen Trieu ($, info in header). The 6'4", 250 pound lineman is also getting attention from Northwestern, Ball State, Valparaiso, and a number of lower-division schools.
Hey, don't look know, but we're going up against UM in the recruiting wars--that would be quite a get.
I imagine the coaches wouldn't try showing HIM the stadium, yes.
http://mgoblog.com/content/monday-recruitin-remixes-bo (http://mgoblog.com/content/monday-recruitin-remixes-bo)
Quote from: valpotx on October 29, 2012, 10:34:30 AM
There are definitely many D-1 schools that have less capacity, and much worse looking buildings.
Go see IUPUI "gym". I know for a fact that Ron Hunter wouldn't show recruits the gym unless he had to. That's a pathetic D1 gym!
milan, you have to admit another pathetic gym was the Jacoby Center at Chicago St., before the Convocation Center they built. That looked like a bad high school gym.
Quick get a NWI Times interview with the OL Bruce Hall kid (Wolverine walk-on offer) while Valpo is honestly in the mix if they are. Love it.
Ironically, because he's instate MI it would be much cheaper to play at UM than at VU sans scholarship...so basically all we have to offer is PT?
Quote from: valporun on October 29, 2012, 07:17:02 PM
milan, you have to admit another pathetic gym was the Jacoby Center at Chicago St., before the Convocation Center they built. That looked like a bad high school gym.
No arguement from me.
Allstate Arena in Rosemont where DePaul plays is pretty bad too. Games at Hilltop Gym before the ARC were entertaining.
What's so bad about Allstate Arena? Were you not "in good hands with Allstate" there? It doesn't seem that bad compared with the Jacoby Center gym, which was better suited for high school games, and not Chicago St. games, where even the commuters didn't go for a game.
Allstate Arena is a generically built dump. It has to be the worst facility in the Big East. The seating is horrible, accoutics are bad. For a Big East school, it is lacking.