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This sucks... What's stopping Illinois State and UNI from doing the same? And then Belmont and Loyola will be looking around for a better home too probably... Yeah we'd still be in a better version of the HL based on who we could theoretically add but just losing Missouri State is a huge blow Losing even more would be absolutely horrible. We're in the middle of a great era and on the precipice of doing great things and the conference might be about to be ripped apart from within... I hate this... Yeah we still should have made the move and maybe we'll be fine but I hate this. I wanted this league to keep growing together and adding teams not losing them and having to hope the new additions will be as good. Just losing Missouri State is a heavy blow to everything that makes the Valley special. Baseball volleyball and men's and women's basketball wouldn't be as good.

UNI doesn't have the money and ISU isn't going to ruin their basketball program to go to the worst FBS conference with no rivals and spend all that extra money.  This is also probably true for UNI.

Question directed at our MVC visitors:  if being aggressive is a good thing, then what other steps has the MVC  taken over, say, the last 5 years to specifically develop the conference into a multi-bid conference beyond riding WSU and other members' (NIU, Creighton, etc.) coattails?

On the down side, it caved in to WSU on exit fees and as I understand it, they trashed scheduling mandates.

Looking here for an up side.

TV deals.

NIU = Northern Illinois

UNI = Northern Iowa.

Thank you ISU bird for the update. All schools, including Valpo, have their uppity fans.

But I'm still pissed that you guys defeated my beloved Trojans back in 1985!

That's okay.

Fun fact, ISU does not have a losing record against either USC or Valpo.

Rather than criticizing the ARC, the MVC search committee might do well to examine why their superior basketball facilities translate into inferior recruiting results when compared to Valpo. Or why tiny Valpo has average crowds nearly as large as the MVC's much larger universities and their higher student enrollments in larger communities.

There's only 3 possible explanations: (1) MVC programs underachieve, (2) Valpo overachieves, or (3) the impact of facilities on results is greatly overstated.

What's wrong in this case?  For as much as I hear Valpo fans saying they are upset the MVC would ask them to upgrade I hear Valpo fans stating that some change needs to be made.

Loyola said they would do something with their athletics, and unfortunately I don't remember specifics, but they have not and if anything, they have gone down in attendance 300-440 since their last year in the Horizon.  Why would the MVC want that to happen again?

On a more serious note, some posters advised that facilities had nothing to do with the MVC passing us over last time. But we have a reference to them during this visit. So which is it? They either are part of an overall consideration or they are not.

My hunch is that they decided for a handful of (foolish) reasons that they wanted Loyola and "facilities" was the most convenient/believable excuse they could muster.



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I doubt that.  Loyola needs to continue upgrading their facilities.

In reallity, what reason do ISU and MoSt fans have a right to be uppity? What have they done recently? Seriously?

I already addressed this, I think you should go back and read it.  Uppity would also be an exaggeration.

Someone add Illinois State's RPI list.  They have some really cocky fans, and seem to be the most outspoken against adding Valpo...

You're basing this off of what?

Several people on the MVC board that seem to be tied to Illinois State, as well as on your forum.  It seems like Missouri State and Illinois State have the most people doubting our capability to continue our success, and don't like that we are a small school in the middle of NW IN.  You have been cordial, but I have read some bad things from Redbird fans about us, and I really don't understand it.  It reminds me of some of the comments that were being made about us before we joined the HL, before we proceeded to own that league, just as we did the Mid-Con/Summit .

So most outspoken is two or three people max from what I've seen and nothing really negative. And your post is more cocky that most of what I see from any ISU fan.

Someone add Illinois State's RPI list.  They have some really cocky fans, and seem to be the most outspoken against adding Valpo...

You're basing this off of what?

I would like to see what our average rpi has been for the last 20 years in comparison to the existing 9 teams over their 20 year history.  Would be interested in Murray states 20 year average as well.  Anybody have free time to make that happen? 

I read that article.  I have a feeling using the 20 year scale we would fit in rather well.

I'm not going to go through it, but this website will have the information

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/rpi/

[Without looking it up, I'm going to guess that those same 3 schools also have 1 S16 in the last 20 years - the same as Valpo.]

The ARC is in its Sunday best and looking good. Bleachers out (upper and lower), scorer's table and team seating set up, scoreboard lit up with lighted "welcome" signs on all 4 sides, 30-second basket clocks and "end zone" scoreboards lit up, and, of course, the seemingly endless display of NCAA and NIT Tournament banners and conference championship banners that MVC teams could only dream of. As I quietly stood there a simple message softly echoed from the rafters, "You are standing on holy ground."  It was a spiritual experience.

The MVC still has 3 schools with a S16 in the last 10 seasons.

That was beautifully written and all that and that might impress Evansville, Drake, Missouri State or Loyola but....

Contrary to popular national belief the MVC was more than Creighton and WSU. Keep in kind Creighton has never been out of the first weekend.

Without looking it up, I'm going to guess that those same 3 schools also have 1 S16 in the last 20 years - the same as Valpo. 

Now back to those NCAA, NIT and conference championship banners at the ARC that have grown steadily over the past 20 years (the ultimate benchmark for winning tradition, meaning we were good 20 years ago, 15 years ago, etc., all the way to last years 30 wins and this year's 24). Would you care to compare your numbers to those?  Save the research.  For time sake I'll shortcut to your answer.  "Well, we'd have that many championships and NCAA/NIT appearances if we played in the Horizon and Summit."  Yep.

You'd be wrong.   

Technically in the last ten NCAA tournaments, only Northern Iowa is left that has made the S16 from the MVC. I do believe that S. Illinois made two S16's in the early 2000's, but clearly by the current state of the program those days are a bit in the past.

wh was talking about 20 years.

Arch Madness attendances last year:
Day 1 - 5,057
Day 2 - 9,124
Day 3 - 12,124
Title game - 11,744

Arch Madness isn't moving anywhere else. And it shouldn't. It's what every non-Power Five league tournament, including Motor City Madness, is trying to be.

I don't want it to move anyway and I'm sure that most don't either.

[Without looking it up, I'm going to guess that those same 3 schools also have 1 S16 in the last 20 years - the same as Valpo.]

The ARC is in its Sunday best and looking good. Bleachers out (upper and lower), scorer's table and team seating set up, scoreboard lit up with lighted "welcome" signs on all 4 sides, 30-second basket clocks and "end zone" scoreboards lit up, and, of course, the seemingly endless display of NCAA and NIT Tournament banners and conference championship banners that MVC teams could only dream of. As I quietly stood there a simple message softly echoed from the rafters, "You are standing on holy ground."  It was a spiritual experience.

The MVC still has 3 schools with a S16 in the last 10 seasons.

That was beautifully written and all that and that might impress Evansville, Drake, Missouri State or Loyola but....

Contrary to popular national belief the MVC was more than Creighton and WSU. Keep in kind Creighton has never been out of the first weekend.

Without looking it up, I'm going to guess that those same 3 schools also have 1 S16 in the last 20 years - the same as Valpo. 

Now back to those NCAA, NIT and conference championship banners at the ARC that have grown steadily over the past 20 years (the ultimate benchmark for winning tradition, meaning we were good 20 years ago, 15 years ago, etc., all the way to last years 30 wins and this year's 24). Would you care to compare your numbers to those?  Save the research.  For time sake I'll shortcut to your answer.  "Well, we'd have that many championships and NCAA/NIT appearances if we played in the Horizon and Summit."  Yep.

You'd be wrong.   

Anyone else really entertained by the back and forth with PantherU on MVCfans.com?

http://mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4692

I actually love it when someone is passionate about their program, but he's coming off like the guy desperately trying to escape the friendzone.

They are very insistent, but look around and see all of the Dakota school fans coming in and being completely rude because a lot of MVC school fans don't want them in the MVC.

What about an East/West split?

UWM
Loyola
Valpo
Indiana St
Evansville
Murray St

Bradley
Illinois St
So Illinois
No Iowa
Drake
Missouri St

As an aside, if we're bringing a second HL school with us, I'd prefer Green Bay, Wright State, or even Oakland to UWM. In no way is this a rumor, just my $0.02.

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I like East and West more.

As far as a 12th school I think staying at 11 is okay and waiting how things play out for a few years.

I think, barring something changing this week, the MVC rolls 11 for at least a year.

There's no good way to do divisions.

The MVC takes it's public/private split very seriously. If we go to 12 it will have to be a 6/6 public private split. UWM may have smoke now, but I'm not sure I see it.

I won't be shocked to see 11 until SLU finally figures out the Big East isn't happening and the A10 stars to fracture.

I'd really like to add SLU, but I don't see them coming back to the MVC. 

It is unfortunate that he will have to sit a year.  Unfortunately he will get to practice with the team and not miss a beat when he becomes eligible.  Unfortunately he will have a year to get stronger and healthier in the weight room.  Unfortunate for our conference foes that he will have to sit a year.

I disagree, not playing in a real game for a year isn't good.

  At this point I would think it is Joe Burton, because he is Joe Burton.  Bakari Evelyn, because our starting point guard is transferring because of Bakari Evelyn.  One of our 7 footers at the 5, (pretty equal, both started games last year), Tevonn Walker (second team all conference last year) and possibly Parker Hazen at the 4.  He is a freshman but is very athletic and is used to playing on the inside.  That would make us 7', 6'8", 6'6", 6'3" and 6'2" for starters.

Coming off the bench we bring in another 7' sophomore, a 6'1" senior, a 6'5" sophomore who started games near the end of last year, a 6'2" explosive sophomore and a 6'7" freshman. again, used to playing on the inside and very athletic or 6'6" Markus Golder who is a JC transfer.  Some have indicated his ability will put him in the starting lineup which would move Hazen to the second team.  That's 11 deep with good size and athleticism.  I'm getting excited!!   

Two players at seven feet could be impressive if they can be your top players.

As noted on another thread, Valpo will have 5 3&4-Star players on next year's roster (6 players > 2):

4-Star Joe Burton 6-6
3.3-Star Ryan Fazekus 6-8 (4 and two 3's)
3-Star Parker Hazen 6-7
3-Star Bakari Evelyn 6-2
3-Star Derrik Smits 7-2
2.5 Star Micah Bradford 6-2

Would you happen to know how that compares with MVC teams?

This thread talks about ISU's possible line-up, but I wouldn't know for the rest of the conference.

Hope we present well and say all the right things. 

MVC - North
Drake
UNI
UWM
Loyola
Valpo
Bradley

MVC - South
Missouri State
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indian State
Evansville
Murray State

Problem is all but one private school in same division.....But regardless the above is much more exciting than current HL

If ISU and Bradley don't play each other twice a year there will be endless complaints from both sides.

I'm also not sold on Milwaukee.

Joe Burton is our 4 star guy. He was a RS Transfer this year and he was transferring from Oklahoma State.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/joe-burton--2

Also Ryan Fazekas just announced he's transferring to Valpo from Providence today. He was ranked a 4 star recruiting coming out of HS by ESPN.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/ryan-fazekas

To be honest I think these scouting ranking are not very accurate and little overrated, but I'm not going to lie I get excited when we land 3 star guys and I think Joe Burton was the first 4 star player we have ever landed. Alec Peters (arguably the greatest player in Valpo's history, definitely on Mt. Rushmore) was an un-ranked player by both Rivals and ESPN. But Scouts gave ranked him a 3 star, but many knew he was a program changing recruit coming in his freshman year, but he definitely surpassed most everyones expectations. Really was a testament to his hard work and the coaching staff developing him. Alec really noticeably got better every single year.

I didn't notice your comment about Joe Burton.  It's exciting to have two players at that level.  It looks like good times ahead.

I don't mind having one worthwhile transfer sitting out every year. But three? Don't even think about it! Case in point VU 16-17. Started with 10 eligible scholarship players then watched as the seniors one by one fell to the wayside. Thats how you get a walk on logging 22 minutes a game by seasons end. Don't try this at home. It is not Normal.

That certainly would be bad.  Who do you think will be starting for you guys next year?

Larry Bird sat out the 75-76 season due to transfer. Did anyone say Larry having to sit out a year was unfortunate?

Why wouldn't that also be unfortunate?  If you know someone is good you obviously would want to have them play right away.

Loyola just got a 4 star recruit as well.  What is this name of your guy?

Ryan Fazekas will be a transfer from Providence with 2 years remaining after sitting next year.  ESPN had him ranked #29 at his position and he was the #4 player coming out of Indiana his senior year 2015.

Sitting out a year is unfortunate.

For those MVC fans that are worried that our winning ways are done post-Bryce/post-Alec Peters, we just received another former 4 star commitment.  If these guys play to their potential, we have another exciting 3-4 years coming up.  Even if Lottich leaves, we have set in motion a winning program, that would be highly attractive to any coaches that want to work their way to a Power 5 school.

Loyola just got a 4 star recruit as well.  What is this name of your guy?

Not really.  Lottich is a better in-game coach and his recruiting has been solid so far.

No worries, whatsoever, on our ability to continue our winning ways.  Recruits see the championship banners hanging in our HS gym, which helps to cement strong players coming to Valpo, despite the gym.  It is not just because of the Drews, but because of the school itself, and our commitment to winning in Men's Basketball.  Coach Lottich has proven that he can recruit the same level of talent, but is also a better in-game coach than Bryce was.  We are something like 10-2 over the last 5 years against MVC teams, and 3-0 versus some very solid Murray State teams.  Our regular season championship teams would have been just as competitive in the MVC, as we were in the HL those years. 

Also, we have more than 2 wins in an NCAA tournament.  We have only been competing at the current D-1 level since 1978 (I believe), and had several wins in the former 'Small College' (now D-2) format of the NCAA tourney:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valparaiso_Crusaders_men's_basketball

Nope.

I could see how outsiders may be concerned but Lottich proved he had coaching chops this past season. This will be his first recruiting class. We have a few potentially really talented transfers coming in next season and the 2 true freshman coming in look to be raw talents but still lots of potential.

Lottich has impressed in his first year. As for losing Alec, yes it hurts but cupboard definitely not is bare.

I do agree that during the regular season Valpo was great, but when Peters got hurt the level of play went down.  That part isn't concerning?  It's not every day that someone comes and averages over 20 points a game.

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

With Wichita State leaving, and Illinois State turning over it's roster, are you worried that the whole conference may start trending down, especially with new teams?

Yes.  Loyola is not at the same level of Creighton and whoever is added will not be at the same level of Wichita State.      I'm always at least slightly concerned for my team because even the best recruits are still young and learning and can vary so much from game to game and season to season.  So I'm guessing you are concerned.

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

I would prefer for a minimum capacity of 7,000 for Valley schools.

What's the reason behind that seemingly arbitrary number? Adding successful basketball programs is priority number 1, and like others have mentioned, The A-10 succeeds with lower attendance, and Valpo has a much bigger gym than Belmont and higher attendance than Murray State. I think its a total non-issue compared to other facilities. Your redbirds didn't have a single sell out in your best season in well over a decade, and frequently didn't hit 7000 this season. UNI didn't even sell out every game in arguably our best ever season in 14-15. ISUr and MSU certainly have the most legit arenas in the valley now, and the valley as a whole has a lot of nice arenas, but its time to look past that in the current state of mid majors. Fact of the matter is, with Valpo, we know we would bring in a team that can fill their gym and not have lousy sub-2000 attendance like a lot of other candidates.

I think Valpo would see an immediate bump in attendance. New conference with new teams would bring in some excitement, and playing more recognizable names like those old rivals you guys speak of and other good brands like UNI would all help. However, that novelty could wear off quickly if you don't find success.

As stated in my post above, the MVC has just lost/is losing their top two teams in terms of attendance.  The most recent replacement, Loyola, only has a capacity of 4,486 for basketball.  The next lowest team's capacity is 7,018.  I think that whoever is added should have, or be required to upgrade to match the smallest arena in the MVC pre-realignment.

I'm not convinced playing in the MVC alone will boost attendance (as I mentioned with Loyola) and it would give Valparaiso an excuse to upgrade where a decent amount of people would like to see an upgrade.

Someone mentioned that the searing capacity for Valparaiso's basketball arena is similar to some MVC schools, but it only seats a little over 500 more than Loyola (the smallest arena in the MVC) and the next smallest seats over 2,000 more.

I am not sure why people raise the seating capacity issue. What matters is not how many seats there are, but how many people in those seats. In fact, I think it is worse to have a large venue with mostly empty seats. Valpo's average attendance for 2016 was 3,572, which is double the figure for Loyola (1,831) and not far from the average for all MVC teams (4,609) if you subtract Wichita St. (10,805). (Additionally, I'm willing to bet Valpo's attendance would be even higher if playing in the MVC, and the average for the MVC members would be lower without Wichita State's 9 games as a visitor bringing its fan base.)  Valpo's average attendance also ranks better than its two presumed competitors for an invite: Belmont (2,536) and Murray State (3,266).

I want to make it clear the I am in favor of adding Valpo.

However, the same argument was made when adding Loyola that their attendance would go up being in the MVC.  It hasn't (in fact their average attendance has dropped by about 400) and we are replacing our second school that averaged over 10,000 fans a game with good arenas.

Facilities are important for Valparaiso University in the long term. do we need a huge arena? Of course not? But upgrades to the ARC are required as it is becoming antiquated. locker rooms need upgrades, more chair back seats, expand the north end another 1000 seats, and some cosmetic enhancements. Make the ARC a facility we can be proud of.

Btw, the swimming facilities need significant help. that situation is ridiculas.

Regarding the NDSU guy, maybe he believes we need to get free tan Sierras from some dude named Lundegaard and have available wood chippers.

I would prefer for a minimum capacity of 7,000 for Valley schools.

Someone mentioned that the searing capacity for Valparaiso's basketball arena is similar to some MVC schools, but it only seats a little over 500 more than Loyola (the smallest arena in the MVC) and the next smallest seats over 2,000 more.

As an ISU fan I have seen a lot of people who are supportive of you moving to the MVC.