3/21, 12:15pm ET: NCAA First Game: (14) Valpo v. (3) Michigan State Game Thread

[EddieCabot]

You guys are amazing. Now valpotx thinks Bryce should reach out to Stevens, a guy he has beaten three straight. The timeouts?  We won the second half. so much for his timeout management.

It's not too early to talk about next year.  sure we will be, on average, pretty young, but we will have three seniors in bobby, Lavonte and Jordan plus transfer studs like Keith Carter plus the kid from Rice and a more experienced Vashil. 
Add a very talented freshman class and we may make a run again.  I can't wait.

Not only that, but Bryce has also won 48 games in his first two seasons ... I doubt that very many others have done that!  Not sure why anyone is criticizing him at this point.   

It seems like Stevens talks a lot about picking up things from other coaches ... guys like Todd Lickliter, Paul Patterson of little Taylor University and Shaka Smart (before they were in the same conference).  In Bryce's case, he probably doesn't need much advice, but if he does, he has two great resources in his family to contact.

[valpotx]

How many of these wins are against top quality competition?  There is a huge difference in getting your guys ready to play the other mid-majors we can beat on a routine basis, versus getting them prepared to beat a BCS school.  Again, I love Bryce as our coach, but I am realistic in regards to his current HC level

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Not pointing out that Valpo has now lost 6 straight NCAAT games over the span of 15 years would be the same as not reporting on Lance Armstrong's doping, got it 

It's more like putting up there "Loyola: failed to advance in NCAA tournament since 1983" or
"Chicago Cubs: still hapless since 1945, or 1908, depending how low your bar is"

[vu72]

How many of these wins are against top quality competition?  There is a huge difference in getting your guys ready to play the other mid-majors we can beat on a routine basis, versus getting them prepared to beat a BCS school.  Again, I love Bryce as our coach, but I am realistic in regards to his current HC level

A fair observation.  I think the "getting prepared" has more to do with talent and, matchups.  Valpo would have had a much better chance against any of the others 3's.  Having said that, in general the difference in mid-major talent and BCS talent is size, speed, athleticism.  We have some--Bobby has size, Erik is as fast as any BCS player and a guy like Jordan Coleman has athleticism.  Now, put that across a whole team so that a Ryn Broekhoff can't be double teamed or put shooting ability with Erik's speed so that the bigs can't camp down low, and you might have something.

The next question needs to be: Are the new guys coming in going to close the gap?  Is Keith Carter or Lexus Williams a bcs quality point?  Can Adykoya  provide that quick, athletic inside presence?  Can Alec Peters score like Ryan and not be doubled because we have too many other weapons?  Time will tell...

[atkins]

I completely agree with you, vu72, regarding talent and match-ups, but I respectfully disagree that Valpo's chances would have been better against the other 3's.  The others are just as good as MSU (which was the third or fourth-best team in the Big 10) and would have presented similarly tough match-up headaches.  Based on the games so far, we're lucky we did not have to play Harvard or Florida Gulf Coast, both of which look like much better teams than Valpo. 

I am optimistic about next year, but I was far too optimistic about this year's team, so I'll keep it under control until I see the new group in action.  Carter is a more-complete guard than any we had on the court this year.  Peters already seems to be a better shooter than Ryan (whose shooting was streaky and inconsistent throughout the year).  Our guards and forwards did not consistently create their own shots (except for Buggs at the end of the season), but it appears that both Peters and Yeo have that innate ability.  I really do think the wildcard for 2013-14 is Vashil.  I hope he has a monster year...can't help but like that guy.

[valpo95]

I've got to agree with 72 here.  All of the #3 seeds are good (by definition they are supposed to be!) but Michigan State was going to be a particularly tough matchup.  MSU in recent years has the trademark of very good defense, good rebounding and many athletic players as starters and on the bench. 

Valpo's main way of combating that was their experience and ability to play well together.  More specifically, if you looked at the offensive sets by Valpo, they ended up with very good ball movement and often a good look for three.  Broekhoff went 2-11 from the field and 1-9 from three, and that made a big difference.  Against a very good defensive and rebounding team, poor shooting would doom anyone to failure.  Second, Nix had an outstanding game: 25 points and 15 rebounds and Valpo had no answer for him.  There is no one like that in the HL.

Having been at the prior tournament games against Arizona and Michigan State (in 2000?), while I watch this one on TV, Valpo looked better than in those games.  Yesterday, they didn't hit shots, and when Ryan and Kevin didn't score well, there was no other credible option until Buggs started hitting.  I'd submit that if Ryan would have went 4-9 from three there would have been a whole lot more pressure on MSU's players, and a better scenario for Valpo to get back into better defensive sets.  As it was, the team played well against a very tough opponent.

[HC]

The way MSU used Nix is exactly how Detroit should've used Holman. Good coaching vs. McCallum coaching.

[usc4valpo]

Oh, well, at least we have football to look forward to.   

[VULB#62]

Spartans taking care of business:

MSU 70 - Memphis 48

Makes ya feel better about our result, don't it?

[Smj]

I am rooting for MSU to win it all...   Makes any result feel better if you can say you got beat by the champs...  However, appling's injury could hinder them.

[valporun]

So far, MSU is reminding me of how the 2000 tournament played out. We held them under 70 points, then each game after that, they scored 70+, on their way to the NCAA Championship.

[usc4valpo]

It will be interesting to see how Michigan and Michigan State play from here, especially playing their first two games at the friendly confines of the Palace of Auburn Hills.  Both look great.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

One last word on timeouts, for now:  I think the unspoken undercurrent to this conversation is "if this is how Bryce burns through timeouts with the most experienced lineup in the country, how is he going to handle them when a much less-experienced team is having problems on the floor?"

And that is troublesome. But we'll burn that bridge when we get there.

[vusupporter]

Trying to remember who here had a problem with Bryce having no timeouts left in the final stretch against Detroit...you do what you have to do to stay in the game.

[atkins]

Bill Belichick is undoubtedly the best coach in the NFL over the last decade-plus.  He throws away timeouts (and concomitant challenge flags) like they are McDonalds wrappers, much to the chagrin of Patriots fans.  His use of timeouts is frustratingly bad at times.  Bryce obviously has a long, long way to go to become a Belichick (or even a Brad Stevens), but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in calling timeouts.  This was a senior-led team, so timeouts called by the bench should not have played as large of a role this year, but there were a lot of lapses at inopportune times by the group, thereby necessitating the timeouts. 

[wh]

Bill Belichick is undoubtedly the best coach in the NFL over the last decade-plus.  He throws away timeouts (and concomitant challenge flags) like they are McDonalds wrappers, much to the chagrin of Patriots fans.  His use of timeouts is frustratingly bad at times.  Bryce obviously has a long, long way to go to become a Belichick (or even a Brad Stevens), but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in calling timeouts.  This was a senior-led team, so timeouts called by the bench should not have played as large of a role this year, but there were a lot of lapses at inopportune times by the group, thereby necessitating the timeouts. 

Not once this season has anyone brought up anything about Bryce mismanaging timeouts. Then we have a game where we were in constant jeopardy of being blown out and we use timeouts to try to stop the bleeding, and Bryce needs to go to "counseling."  Someone already said it.  If he didn't try to do something to stop MSU's momentum at crucial times during the game, having timeouts to burn at the end of the game would have been meaningless.  Or, are we supposed to believe that someone who played hundreds and hundreds of games on the big stage at every level of basketball and who has several years of asst and head coaching experience suddenly lost his head, his cool, or his common sense?  You guys need to stop embarrassing yourselves with this unfair, uneducated criticism.

By the way, did anyone notice how Brad "the counselor" replied when asked what went wrong in the final play of Butler's loss to Marquette.  Needing a 3 to tie, they threw it in the back court to Andrew Smith, who took a couple of dribbles at the top of key, stumbled over someone's foot, and klutzed up a wild off-the-mark "throw" at the gun.  Stevens said they had 2 plays set-up depending on the defense, and the team ran the wrong one.  In other words, 'I called the right play, but the team didn't execute.'  Bryce would never dump on his players like that.  Instead, he would keep it all inside and we would be saying 'Bryce called a timeout for that? What a terrible play!"  And, 'Maybe Bryce should get some counseling from "Brad" on how to close out a game.'

[vuweathernerd]

Not once this season has anyone brought up anything about Bryce mismanaging timeouts.

wrong. it's been lamented about a fair few times, less so on the boards, but more frequently in game chats. specifically finding ourselves in situations where we only have 1 left around the 10 minute mark, or burning 3 in the first half. there's got to be better ways to weather the storm than burn 3 timeouts in a 5 minute span. intentionally slow the pace down and make sure everyone understands before ever getting into those situations that sometimes you're going to have to take a second to collect yourself individually. it can be done.

[vu72]

Bill Belichick is undoubtedly the best coach in the NFL over the last decade-plus.  He throws away timeouts (and concomitant challenge flags) like they are McDonalds wrappers, much to the chagrin of Patriots fans.  His use of timeouts is frustratingly bad at times.  Bryce obviously has a long, long way to go to become a Belichick (or even a Brad Stevens), but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in calling timeouts.  This was a senior-led team, so timeouts called by the bench should not have played as large of a role this year, but there were a lot of lapses at inopportune times by the group, thereby necessitating the timeouts. 

Not once this season has anyone brought up anything about Bryce mismanaging timeouts. Then we have a game where we were in constant jeopardy of being blown out and we use timeouts to try to stop the bleeding, and Bryce needs to go to "counseling."  Someone already said it.  If he didn't try to do something to stop MSU's momentum at crucial times during the game, having timeouts to burn at the end of the game would have been meaningless.  Or, are we supposed to believe that someone who played hundreds and hundreds of games on the big stage at every level of basketball and who has several years of asst and head coaching experience suddenly lost his head, his cool, or his common sense?  You guys need to stop embarrassing yourselves with this unfair, uneducated criticism.

By the way, did anyone notice how Brad "the counselor" replied when asked what went wrong in the final play of Butler's loss to Marquette.  Needing a 3 to tie, they threw it in the back court to Andrew Smith, who took a couple of dribbles at the top of key, stumbled over someone's foot, and klutzed up a wild off-the-mark "throw" at the gun.  Stevens said they had 2 plays set-up depending on the defense, and the team ran the wrong one.  In other words, 'I called the right play, but the team didn't execute.'  Bryce would never dump on his players like that.  Instead, he would keep it all inside and we would be saying 'Bryce called a timeout for that? What a terrible play!"  And, 'Maybe Bryce should get some counseling from "Brad" on how to close out a game.'

 

[FWalum]

Not once this season has anyone brought up anything about Bryce mismanaging timeouts.

wrong. it's been lamented about a fair few times, less so on the boards, but more frequently in game chats. specifically finding ourselves in situations where we only have 1 left around the 10 minute mark, or burning 3 in the first half. there's got to be better ways to weather the storm than burn 3 timeouts in a 5 minute span. intentionally slow the pace down and make sure everyone understands before ever getting into those situations that sometimes you're going to have to take a second to collect yourself individually. it can be done.

Not very high on my list of concerns when it comes to evaluating a coaches performance unless you start saying "darn we could have won that game if only we had a timeout or two left at the end of the game". Really don't remember saying that at anytime this year even though I did think a time or two that we could have used the timeouts more judiciously. However, I am not in the huddle and don't know the situation and as a knowledgable fan I have a lot of faith that Bryce knows his team and how to best instruct and motivate them. 

[atkins]

My post was intended as a defense of Bryce re: calling timeouts.  He's the head coach, so he knows when a timeout is necessary and/or helpful, and even if he were horrible at timeout-management (which he's not), that would not be an impediment to success. 

[bbtds]

Not once this season has anyone brought up anything about Bryce mismanaging timeouts.

This is not true. I believe I read several times someone complaining that Bryce had run through his timeouts with 3 or 4 minutes to go in the game.

[valpotx]

Bill Belichick is undoubtedly the best coach in the NFL over the last decade-plus.  He throws away timeouts (and concomitant challenge flags) like they are McDonalds wrappers, much to the chagrin of Patriots fans.  His use of timeouts is frustratingly bad at times.  Bryce obviously has a long, long way to go to become a Belichick (or even a Brad Stevens), but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in calling timeouts.  This was a senior-led team, so timeouts called by the bench should not have played as large of a role this year, but there were a lot of lapses at inopportune times by the group, thereby necessitating the timeouts. 

Not once this season has anyone brought up anything about Bryce mismanaging timeouts. Then we have a game where we were in constant jeopardy of being blown out and we use timeouts to try to stop the bleeding, and Bryce needs to go to "counseling."  Someone already said it.  If he didn't try to do something to stop MSU's momentum at crucial times during the game, having timeouts to burn at the end of the game would have been meaningless.  Or, are we supposed to believe that someone who played hundreds and hundreds of games on the big stage at every level of basketball and who has several years of asst and head coaching experience suddenly lost his head, his cool, or his common sense?  You guys need to stop embarrassing yourselves with this unfair, uneducated criticism.

By the way, did anyone notice how Brad "the counselor" replied when asked what went wrong in the final play of Butler's loss to Marquette.  Needing a 3 to tie, they threw it in the back court to Andrew Smith, who took a couple of dribbles at the top of key, stumbled over someone's foot, and klutzed up a wild off-the-mark "throw" at the gun.  Stevens said they had 2 plays set-up depending on the defense, and the team ran the wrong one.  In other words, 'I called the right play, but the team didn't execute.'  Bryce would never dump on his players like that.  Instead, he would keep it all inside and we would be saying 'Bryce called a timeout for that? What a terrible play!"  And, 'Maybe Bryce should get some counseling from "Brad" on how to close out a game.'

There are many ways to calm the team down when you are struggling that don't include using ALL of your timeouts with 14 minutes left in the game.  Someone mentioned that you can slow the pace down to try and calm them, which is just one of those options.  Just watch how some of these coaches manage such situations, that are still left in the tournament!  You will see them stand at halfcourt and use some clock, so the guys can slow their minds down, but still get a play in to start around 10-12 seconds left.  Are you saying that the only way our team could stop a run is to call a timeout??  Yes, Bryce knows the team, but there had to be several other ways to switch it up without calling 2-3 timeouts in a few minute span. 

You have your opinion, and I have mine, and just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are 'uneducated' in saying that Bryce should look to others who have had success on the BIG stage as a COACH.  Just because you played in the NBA and overseas doesn't mean that you are going to be an excellent in-game coach.  It's the same to say that just because you can recruit solid players, doesn't make you a great COACH, which is the constant criticism you hear about Scott Drew.

I am sure that Bryce will become a better in-game coach in the years to come, but there have been way too many examples over the last 2 seasons that show he still needs some work before he can be successful at a larger program.  He will always be able to recruit top talent, but it will be how he uses that talent, to determine how successful he will become. 

Again, I have NEVER said that he is a poor coach, just that he has a lot of work to do to be able to beat the big boys like some of the other mid-major teams do.  We always have similar/better talent to these teams that cause such upsets on the big stage, but we tend to get blown out in each game.  I am not speaking about a UNM or SLU, as their names do not cause you to panic when you are playing against them.  I am talking about the UNC, MSU, Duke-type teams, that can cause a player to play nervous in just knowing that you are playing against a storied program.  You can say that we only lost by 11 to MSU, but they definitely took their foot off the pedal with the last 5-6 minutes to go, which got it below 20.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

wrong. it's been lamented about a fair few times, less so on the boards, but more frequently in game chats. specifically finding ourselves in situations where we only have 1 left around the 10 minute mark, or burning 3 in the first half. there's got to be better ways to weather the storm than burn 3 timeouts in a 5 minute span. intentionally slow the pace down and make sure everyone understands before ever getting into those situations that sometimes you're going to have to take a second to collect yourself individually. it can be done.

too true!  amen.  and a whole bunch of emoticon smilies.  i'll be uneducated with you and tx any day.

EDIT:  Having identified an undercurrent, let's then talk about what this is really about, since some people are all Allen Iverson and being like "timeouts?  we talkin' bout TIMEOUTS?"

This whole timeout discussion is actually an avatar for concerns that Bryce still has in-game coaching edges to smooth off.  (And I am fine with that, because the more of those he has, the more likely he is to stay at VU!)  Still, when your average season is 24-10, you're clearly doing a lot of things right, regardless of inherited situation.  As a player, Bryce pretty much always had his finger on the pulse of the game (most of the exceptions I can think of date back to high school days, which is obviously unfair since I did a lot of dumb things in high school that I'd prefer weren't remembered by anyone, least of all me).

As a coach, though, Homer always did, or at least seemed to.  It was like when you were 6 or 8 and you knew your dad had it all under control.  He knew when to call the timeouts and when not; he knew when to get on the refs and when to lay off; he even knew when (and how--which is just as important) to get a tech.  Which, every time it happened, I always felt like it was the first time ever. 

But it's like going from being a star actor to a director--same set, different chair.  It's unfair to expect him to manage a game like his father who had what, 400 games under his belt as head coach when he first came to VU.

In the end, if this, and the possibility of him leaving, are all we really have to complain about at this point, we're doing pretty well.