Jacksonville forefeits PFL Wins

[VULB#62]

San Diego 7-1 9-1
Dayton 5-2 7-3
Drake 5-2 6-4
Campbell 4-3 5-6
Marist 4-4 4-7
Stetson 3-4 5-6
Morehead State 3-5 4-7
Butler 2-6 4-7
Valparaiso 1-6 3-8
Davidson 0-7 1-10
Jacksonville 0-0 9-2

With that heartbreaking last second win on Saturday, USD won the PFL outright when JU vacated all games on the schedule.  This is the second year in a row where a PFL kingpin has had to forfeit wins due to unspecified violations.  I checked the JU site and the PFL site but couldn't find any details.  Anyone know anything about this?

[ml2]

This page should answer many of your questions regarding JU football.

http://www.judolphins.com/information/compliance-update/index

[covufan]

Sounds like a kid that would not have otherwise qualified for an academic scholarship, was granted some scholarship money based on their participating in football.  I'm sure other PFL schools are re-looking at their policies and double-checking things so that nothing slips through the system.  Good for JU coming clean of the situation. 

[VULB#62]

This page should answer many of your questions regarding JU football.

http://www.judolphins.com/information/compliance-update/index

Thanks Matt.  I suspect that the USD situation sets the precedent and that the forfeiture of the 2014 season will be the penalty.  Good to see the JU self-reporting and good to see the PFL sticking by the no football scholarship rule. 

[VULB#62]

Sounds like a kid that would not have otherwise qualified for an academic scholarship, was granted some scholarship money based on their participating in football.  I'm sure other PFL schools are re-looking at their policies and double-checking things so that nothing slips through the system.  Good for JU coming clean of the situation.

Might have been more than one.  One might go undetected, but five or six is another story.  It is also something that happened in the past but the release does not give a timeframe.  Implied is that whomever received the improper aid might still be on the team because they are saying the student(s) involved would remain in school and, apparently, would not be penalized $$$.

[vumsb]

They were giving athletic scholarships to football players just like San Diego. Apparently one year forfeiture but players still on team. Rumor is that San Diego is still allowed to give their football scholarships to the players who were promised them and SD only had one year PFL forfeiture last year. Highly doubt Jacksonville did the "right thing" and turned themselves in. Assume they were caught. Hardly an even playing field in the PFL!


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[bbtds]

I didn't realize that the same USD football players that are playing in the FCS playoffs this season are receiving the same financial aid that got the Torero football banned from the 2013 playoffs. That is certainly not an even playing field.

That just makes me even prouder that the Valpo football team that is playing by the rules was able to play with and almost defeat the team that in essence (by PFL rules) is still cheating. Or do I have what you are saying wrong?

How ironic that Jacksonville, by forfeiting their wins, now makes USD undefeated for the 2014 season.

[vumsb]

You are correct. Players from USD who received athletic scholarships still playing and receiving them for the remainder of their career. Reasoning is it wasn't their fault so they should not be punished. They were promised them by the program so they will continue to receive them. Jacksonville will continue next year as well to promised players. Doesn't seem fair does it?

Makes us all the more proud of our kids and our program who do things the right way. You can't put a price tag on integrity.


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[vumsb]

This page should answer many of your questions regarding JU football.

http://www.judolphins.com/information/compliance-update/index

[vumsb]

This page should answer many of your questions regarding JU football.

http://www.judolphins.com/information/compliance-update/index

Read the FAQs.

[bbtds]

What's next?

The University will complete our regular season and withdraw from any postseason play should our team's record earn that consideration.  We anticipate that the PFL will finish their review in the Spring.  We plan on fielding a competitive football team in 2015 competing with some of the same players that might not have attended JU if they had not received the financial aid they were not supposed to receive by PFL rules and hope that you will be a part of it.

Follow up question: By the phrase "part of it" do you want us (JU fans) to also give players financial aid beyond what the PFL allows?

[VULB#62]

This is the official PFL release from their website.

http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/archives/2014/1033/jacksonville-withdraws-from-2014-pfl-championship/

It is dated 11/14, but I'll be darned if I ever saw it until today and I've been checking the site pretty regularly.  The JU letter and FAQs were more informative --- probably as it should be.

[VULB#62]

Found out that JU's offenses were a bit more "pre-meditated" than USD's and, as a result, there may be more to the PFL  investigation than what occurred with USD.  I can't imagine what additional penalties they might enforce, however.  They can't strip the school of FB scholarships, because, technically, they don't have any.  Might they rule them ineligible for the 2015 championship too?

BTW we play them next year (away), along with Stetson (home).

[valporun]

The PFL, at worst, could suspend the head coach from games and potentially from having any ability to work with recruiting. I mean if scholarships can't be taken away, and you can't ban them from playing PFL games, then you'd have to take the head coach away from the recruiting trail.

[VULB#62]

The inital release implied that it was someone outside the FB office who is no longer at JU.  Wonder how that fits into the equation?But the HFC had to have known (is what you're saying, Run, right?)

[valporun]

Either he had to have known, or, to give some kind of penalty, you have to punish the HFC for not doing something about it himself.

[historyman]

Kerwin Bell, head football coach, Jacksonville Dolphins





Just thought we should put a name and face with the man we are thinking of penalizing in his area of recruitment.

[VULB#62]

Closing out the Jacksonville financial aid mess.

http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/archives/2015/1061/pfl-concludes-review-of-jacksonville-football-program/

The article states they vacate their 2010 and 2014 championships and forfeit wins from 2010 through 2014  They are ineligible for the 2015 championship/post season.  Hope we beat them November 21st at Jacksonville anyway.

[bbtds]

Closing out the Jacksonville financial aid mess.

http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/archives/2015/1061/pfl-concludes-review-of-jacksonville-football-program/

The article states they vacate their 2010 and 2014 championships and forfeit wins from 2010 through 2014  They are ineligible for the 2015 championship/post season.  Hope we beat them November 21st at Jacksonville anyway.

Does that mean Carlson gets to claim victory against Jacksonville in his first year in 2010? I checked and we didn't play the Dolphins in 2011, 2012, 2013 or 2014. The last time we played the cheating JU team the score was 86-7.

In a side note, I noticed that several of the Jacksonville football games will be aired on ESPN 3 including the Nov. 21st game against Valpo in Florida. Will there be other Valpo football games covered on ESPN 3?

[usc4valpo]

To claim a victory after you lose 86-7 is pretty pathetic. In reality, Jacksonville did not violate NCAA rules but Pioneer League rules.

I wonder what the true difference is in getting academic scholarship money vs. athletic scholarship money. At the end it is the same currency, the dollar. You can give an athlete scholarship cash from the fund and say it is for academics although under the table it may be because of his or her athletic skills. I am sure it is done at many schools, particularly in the Ivy League.

[FWalum]

To claim a victory after you lose 86-7 is pretty pathetic. In reality, Jacksonville did not violate NCAA rules but Pioneer League rules.

I wonder what the true difference is in getting academic scholarship money vs. athletic scholarship money. At the end it is the same currency, the dollar. You can give an athlete scholarship cash from the fund and say it is for academics although under the table it may be because of his or her athletic skills. I am sure it is done at many schools, particularly in the Ivy League.

The difference being that if you are truly giving academic scholarships the pool of available eligible athletes is much smaller.

[usc4valpo]

FW,

The issue is if they are being truly academic. I wonder if there are metrics or formulas or protocol to accommodate this - I certainly doubt that.

[bbtds]

To claim a victory after you lose 86-7 is pretty pathetic. In reality, Jacksonville did not violate NCAA rules but Pioneer League rules.

What difference does it make if a team is breaking NCAA rules or PFL rules? The rules are set by the governing body who is in charge of enforcing the rules. The school/team knows the rules and chooses to break the rules. I don't understand why it makes a difference. The PFL could ultimately kick a team out of the league for multiple violations and that team would be either forced to go the scholarship route, join a different non-scholarship conference (there aren't many of those conferences and why would another non-scholarship conference want a team guilty of non-scholarship rule violations) or drop football (as Evansville did). Those are pretty serious consequences for a team that commits excessive violations.

[usc4valpo]

they broke Pioneer rules not NCAA rules. Thus they lose the Pioneeer conference and forfeit within the conference but do not lose the games. Jacksonville is under probation by the Pioneer conference but have no NCAA violations.

that being said, Jacksonville still defeated Valpo 86-7.