Butler Bball Scheduling

[zvillehaze]

My question is if the Butler/ISU series was a 1 and 1 why does the Terre Haute Tribune Star say it was a 2 for 1? Were they just wrong?

I think this may have been answered, but the Trib Star guy was wrong.  As I recall, the confusion probably arose because it was announced at the same time that Butler would return the Bracketbuster game at ISU (from a few years earlier) in 2014-2015 and that would be followed by a home and home series in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017.  Two separate deals, announced at the same time, that he interpreted incorrectly. 

[IrishDawg]

Well, we finished 5th in the final Mid-Major poll.  As for winning "real" tournament games, I think everybody who matters noticed our "not real" wins over the likes of St. Marys, Florida State and BYU.  The problem with winning "real" tournament games in being in the Horizon where, even if we win, we end up with an 11 or 12 seed and play a top 25 teams.  Can we win? sure, but it isn't a cake walk.  Now, imagine we are in the Big East like our Butler buddies.  Butler finishes 10-8 in the conference, middle of the pack, and gets a 9 seed.  It is a lot easier to be playing a top 35 team then a top 20 team.

The Horizon is a very tough league to get a decent seed out of, especially if schools won't schedule you.  Butler's big break came in 2007 when they were a part of the Pre-season NIT back when the final 4 schools that headed to New York weren't pre-determined.  Up to that point, Butler, despite a few recent tourney appearances and wins, couldn't get big-named schools to come to Hinkle.  However, after beating Notre Dame, Indiana, Tennessee and Gonzaga in succession, along with Purdue later in the year, it ensured that they no longer needed to worry about winning the Horizon League tournament to get to the NCAAs.  Since then, they've basically played in a non-exempt tournaments every season. 

That's where Valpo needs to get if they want to get a better seeding, or to get those at-large bids that Butler and other programs get even if they don't win their league tournaments.  The problem is that those non-exempt tournaments "fixed" the problem that Butler and other schools created by beating the bigger-named programs (now the final schools in the tournaments are pre-determined), and the better ones are really difficult to break into.  Really the only solution for Valpo is to make a run in the NCAA tournament before power programs will feel safer scheduling them (As Gonzaga did many years ago).  Sure, it's "easier" to win games in the tournament if you get a better seed, but really being the 11 or 12 seed isn't that bad.  Your 1st round matchup is slightly tougher, but the 2nd round opponent is always going to be easier.

[oklahomamick]

Last year would have been that year to make a run.  We had something that no other school had.  The best shot blocker in the country.  Things will be different.  the biggest loss for next season is not Skara or Bryce, but Vashil.

[VULB#62]

Don't sell Derrik short   . He is 3" taller than Vashil at 7-1 and, from the few tapes I've seen, a bit more athletic.  Don't know about wing span though - which is a major factor in shot blocking. I think we all agree that he'll add much more value to the offense, but I also think that with Valpo's emphasis on D, he'll do OK.  I'm thinking that he'll not get called for those occasional "clumsy" fouls that would haunt Vashil.

[vu72]

Well, we finished 5th in the final Mid-Major poll

That kind of proves my point this was our best team in decades and we were ranked 5th in the final mid-major polls and don't even make the tournament, unlike the Wichita st.,Gonzagas or even Butler (back when). Their good teams they are ranked top 5 in national polls. Program wise we are alot closer to UWM, UWGB and Oakland then we are to the real mid major elites. Also yes it is harder to win as a lower seed but plenty of mid majors and majors are able to win against much better seeds

Well we were ranked #1 in that poll the week before.  Not sure how Gonzaga was ranked #1 when you look at their record.  Lost they twice to St. Mary's and one to BYU.  We beat BYU on a neutral court and demolished St. Mary's on our home court.

[a3uge]

I can answer that question real quickly. They made it to the sweet 16 and were without there 3rd or 4th best player most of the year. Also they demolished St. Marys on a neutral court the last time they played them. Subjectively speaking they were playing the best of all the mid majors. they would've beat us by double digits on a neutral court (eye test). Also I was talking about as a program. There have been a lot of mid majors that have had fairly lengthy runs at the top of conferences. If I remember correctly both Wright State and UWM have had runs atop the HL. What differentiates the elite mid majors from the solid mid majors is they take advantage of there chances and make tourney runs. Wichita st, Zags, VCU, Butler, Creighton, and then you look earlier Mempis (maybe not sure how many games were taken away) and Cincy.

Your eye test sucks.

[a3uge]

based on the aforementioned ranking shift it's not just my eye test

There's no ranking system that would suggest Butler a double digit favorite on a neutral court. Like I said, your eye test sucks.

[DuckOnAModerator]

based on the aforementioned ranking shift it's not just my eye test

There's no ranking system that would suggest Butler a double digit favorite on a neutral court. Like I said, your eye test sucks.

Pretty sure he was talking about Gonzaga not Butler. Your eyes and reading comprehension sucks.

[a3uge]

based on the aforementioned ranking shift it's not just my eye test

There's no ranking system that would suggest Butler a double digit favorite on a neutral court. Like I said, your eye test sucks.

Pretty sure he was talking about Gonzaga not Butler. Your eyes and reading comprehension sucks.

Must have jumped in at the wrong time - not sure why we're even talking about Gonzaga now?

But yeah, there's no way Gonzaga would be double digit favorites on a neutral court either. Syracuse was a -4 point dog, and Valpo was ahead of Syracuse in pretty much every metric.

Also, Michigan State would beat MTSU on a neutral court by double digits. Stating outcomes of games that never happened as fact is dumb.

[IrishDawg]

Gonzaga wouldn't have been double digit favorites, but in the two main ratings systems that use MOV and usually predict lines that are close to the actual Vegas lines (Pomeroy and Sagarin), Syracuse was rated ahead of Valpo by the time the Gonzaga game took place.