Game #2 @ UIC 6:00 PM ESPN3 WVUR 95.1

[FWalum]

Just don't see how the 4 players you identified as the "relied on" transfers equate to the conclusion you draw in the second quote. Yes, as I have said before, Joe Burton was the big mistake that caused a cascade of events, on that we agree. Are Eron Gordon and Nick Robinson two of your scrap heap players?  I have a tendency to agree more with Paul (Pgmado), and as someone who has some recruiting experience, thinking that Matt has done a pretty good job of recruiting out of high school. As an example, I think getting two players like Clay and Krikke in the same class is the exception rather than the rule in Mid-Major recruiting.

Fazekas, when healthy, was perhaps Valpo's second best player both last season and the season prior to that.

Marcus Golder and Bakari Evelyn were both top five in scoring and minutes played from 2017 through 2019.

For 2017-18, Valpo planned to "rely" most heavily on transfer Joe Burton before he flunked out of school.

We're stuck relying on transfers because we struggle to recruit talented enough kids out of high school. We're then left digging through the transfer scrap heap, searching for players who showed promise in high school but have failed to realize it at the collegiate level. I believe this has added to our roster discordance; the parts just dont seem to fit. Or maybe it simply feels that way because we seem so bad right now.

[VUGrad1314]

Drake got hit by a transfer that was probably just as impactful as JFL in Robbins but they seem to have come through it okay. What is the difference? It appears that Drake has players they can run an offense through and shooters that shoot well... We it appears have not demonstrated either this season although I do suspect that Krikke and Clay will be guys you can run an offense through reliably We just need the rest of the team to step up around them which hasn't happened yet.

[JBC1824]

I idefntified more than four players who met my criteria for being transfers Valpo has "relied" upon over the course of its recent history. So I'll assume you were referring to the first four I mentioned?
Regardles, I would argue all of the transfers listed in my last post were taken off of what I referred to as the "transfer scrap heap" -- players who underperformed at the colleges and universities they initially attended looking for a fresh start. In contrast to these players, there are transfers such as Brandon Wood or JFL, who met or exceeded expectations and decided to transfer for different reasons. Almost all of Valpo's recent incoming transfers fit the first description. (JUCO transfers dont seem to fit the context of this arguement well one way or another.)

Eron most certainly underperformed while at Seton Hall. Nick however was a contributor his sophmore year at St. Joe's. Nick falls somewhere in between the underperfomed/met expectations or overperformed paradigm; nonetheless, he likely transfered due to an expectation of his role being reduced should he have remained at St. Joe's. His example is singular and not outstanding enough to challenge the idea that Valpo is attracting the wrong type of transfers.

Again, I don't think I fully understand the points Pgmado was trying to make. At first it seemed he was talking about Valpo's best players not being transfers in the majority of cases. I dont think we've argued against that here. I haven't. His second point had something to do with the number of transfers Valpo has had on its roster since Lottich took over.

I agree Clay and Krikke have both shown great promise.

My inital point was not that Valpo has not been recruiting any talented players whatsoever directly from high school. Valpo is however struggling to recruit enough of them. That should be apparent.     Thus the team is forced to fill out its roster with players almost exclusivley from the transfer scrap heap.

[Chairback]

Where would this program be without the early transfers of David Redmon and Casey Schmidt.   

[FWalum]

I idefntified more than four players who met my criteria for being transfers Valpo has "relied" upon over the course of its recent history. So I'll assume you were referring to the first four I mentioned?

Nice deflection! You know very well why I only mentioned those four. Recent history? Your implications initially where that this has happened during the Lottich era.

[JBC1824]

What am I deflecting from?

No, I didn't. Hence, the reason for asking.

My implications? I'm talking about our recent history. I consider a few years prior to when Lottich took over to be part of that.

What exacty is your overall point anyway?

I can concurrently hold the positions that we have "relied" upon our recent transfers and that these transfers have been taken off the scrap heap, you know.

BTW, "relying" on a player doesn't necessarily mean they performed well. For instance, Bakari and Golder were terrible their last season here. A present example of this idea is Sackey. Clearly we rely on him; the problem is he sucks.

To sum up my position: we aren't recruiting enough talent out of high school... forcing us to dig through the transfer scrap heap... and also that we have come to rely on these players during our recent history.

[valporun]

Sackey's biggest problem...he's playing too fast for some of the guys on this roster. Our bigs run down the court like offensive lineman watching the running back breakout for a 75-yard TD, and then wonder why the ball gets turned over so much. The 3-4-5 guys need to move down the court, and get ready. Can't run set plays with 5 seconds of the shot clock being lost to slugs getting downcourt.

[a3uge]

Sackey's biggest problem...he's playing too fast for some of the guys on this roster. Our bigs run down the court like offensive lineman watching the running back breakout for a 75-yard TD, and then wonder why the ball gets turned over so much. The 3-4-5 guys need to move down the court, and get ready. Can't run set plays with 5 seconds of the shot clock being lost to slugs getting downcourt.

He also can't shoot [emoji2369]

[valporun]

Sackey's biggest problem...he's playing too fast for some of the guys on this roster. Our bigs run down the court like offensive lineman watching the running back breakout for a 75-yard TD, and then wonder why the ball gets turned over so much. The 3-4-5 guys need to move down the court, and get ready. Can't run set plays with 5 seconds of the shot clock being lost to slugs getting downcourt.

He also can't shoot [emoji2369]

Not every point guard is supposed to be averaging 20 points a game. Again, this feeds to he plays too fast for some of the guys on the roster. If you notice often, he's downcourt before some of the guys have even turned to see where the ball is going. When he gets to a point where he could shoot, he's already doubled because the defenders know where he's going compared to the other 4 guys on our roster.

[FWalum]

My implications? I'm talking about our recent history. I consider a few years prior to when Lottich took over to be part of that.

What exacty is your overall point anyway?

Sorry, I am not trying to be a jerk.  I just don't agree with your premise and I honestly feel, and it seemed pretty obvious, that you weren't evaluating the Drews and their use of the transfer, rather that your remarks were focused on Matt and his staff. The inclusion of the the few years prior to Matt taking over was a little disingenuous and seemed a deflection from Paul's post showing that numbers of transfers have been pretty consistent and maybe even down during the Lottich tenure.  EVERY team can and could recruit better, but at the mid-major level talent evaluation is even more important. I guess it is obvious that you and I differ in how you think our coaching staff has done the job of evaluating and then recruiting the under valued/recruited high school player.

I agree that the program has concerns. I suppose my experiences have made me more sympathetic toward the staff than the average poster.