Should Evansville go D3?

vu72 · March 04, 2022, 10:15:28 AM

And I know I'll get blowback for those on the board who think we should go D3 because of the lack of support from the Administration but, nonetheless, hear me out on the Evansville situation.

Once again their men's team has finished last while their women's team is 9th. Over the last six years their men and women have finished last 7 of 12 possibilities. Their men will lose some of their key guys so don't expect much change next year either.

They play in a very nice city facility except their women play in what looks like a practice facility as they must pay rent when using the Ford Center.

It's more than just bad basketball. Evansville has the smallest enrollment of any Valley school. They claim to offer 80 majors so with only 1900 undergrads they must be very financially strapped. Their endowment is listed at $103 million or 44,000 per student while Valpo is at $351 million or 116,000 per student.

It's expensive to give scholarships to athletes in 15 sports. With the crush of financial difficulty facing all small private colleges does it make sense for Evansville to continue at D1?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/12/28/university-of-evansville-faculty-vote-no-confidence-in-academic-cutback-plan/?sh=ecd9b0c6e412

https://www.courierpress.com/story/opinion/columnists/jon-webb/2020/12/14/university-evansville-faces-heavy-cuts-so-do-several-other-schools/3895601001/

valpotx · March 04, 2022, 08:54:29 PM

Interesting that the author on one of these articles was the President Emeritus at conference school Missouri State.

oklahomamick · March 14, 2022, 10:14:11 PM

Wouldn't they try their hand at a Horizon league or OVC type of conference before moving down to diii?

If Chicago St. hasn't moved down from DI then Evansville won't either.

vu72 · March 16, 2022, 02:10:23 PM

Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2022, 10:14:11 PM
Wouldn't they try their hand at a Horizon league or OVC type of conference before moving down to diii?

If Chicago St. hasn't moved down from DI then Evansville won't either.

Moving from one D1 to another or even to D2 won't save them the scholarship money or travel costs. Moving to D3, where most conferences are a short bus ride between members, would save bundles. It's a very tough choice and I know they still regret dropping football. But ultimately they may not have much choice.

oklahomamick · March 19, 2022, 08:39:18 AM

I think only way they go DIII is if the Valley kicks them out. Doubt that happens.

All of our athletic programs are similar to Evansville budgets and results........

tjn2004 · March 19, 2022, 02:56:15 PM

The Valley is about as low travel costs as you're going to get at any division. Buses and diesel fuel don't magically get cheaper at D3. We're not like Butler (and next year Loyola) having to charter jets all over the eastern half of the country for all of our sports since we're in the Valley, and geographically Evansville is no worse off than we are in the Valley, with the new additions they're actually better placed than us. On the rare occasions we do charter for MBB it's a clapped out old Brasilia which probably costs a fraction of the 737's Butler is chartering to go out to the east coast.

With all those financial shortcomings even compared to VU, look how much nicer of a venue Evansville is able to play in than we are.

vu84v2 · March 20, 2022, 12:01:05 AM

Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2022, 10:14:11 PM
Wouldn't they try their hand at a Horizon league or OVC type of conference before moving down to diii?

If Chicago St. hasn't moved down from DI then Evansville won't either.

Chicago State is a public school, so all of their financial shortcomings are backstopped by the State of Illinois. Evansville (like Valpo) is private and must support itself financially. Evansville should not move down to DIII, but it is a different situation that Chicago State.

historyman · March 23, 2022, 09:57:30 PM

(20) FIRE LICKLITER (@FireLickliter) / Twitter

usc4valpo · March 27, 2022, 09:16:13 AM

Evansville with its deep basketball tradition needs to stay D1 and gets things in order. It would be shameful if they dropped.

For those at Valpo suggesting a division drop, shame on them.

may know · May 02, 2022, 02:28:51 PM

Yeah, for one of us at Valpo to be suggesting a drop to D3 for Evansville would be really self-unaware. Glass houses and all that.

vu72 · May 03, 2022, 08:39:50 AM

Quote from: may know on May 02, 2022, 02:28:51 PM
Yeah, for one of us at Valpo to be suggesting a drop to D3 for Evansville would be really self-unaware. Glass houses and all that.

Well, seeing that I started this, let me again state my case. Evansville has been member of the Valley for 28 years. We have been in for 5. Go back to the top and read my argument. They have a very small endowment, are the smallest of the Valley schools, have, of late, been the bottom dweller for not just men's basketball, and have faculty members calling for a move downward. Compared to Evansville, our house is made of bricks.

E-Villan · May 03, 2022, 12:07:12 PM

Quote from: may know on May 02, 2022, 02:28:51 PMYeah, for one of us at Valpo to be suggesting a drop to D3 for Evansville would be really self-unaware. Glass houses and all that.

Funny, I said pretty much the same thing on our board regarding this thread. I am not going to come on your board and fire back at your program, but there is quite a bit the OP has left out. Things like overall facilities, community support and resources, etc. He apparently isn't also aware that we recently got rid of our pathetic AD, hired a national search firm, and lured away a current D-1 AD from Cal-Bakersfield.

Like I said, I don't want to engage in a back and forth here on your board. I would cordially invite vu72 to visit our board, learn what we have been doing to correct our MBB and overall athletic situation. For the first time in years, we have heard our newer president and new AD adamantly state their strong desires to do whatever is necessary to be a regular conference competitor. The new AD went as far as stating we are a sleeping giant in his presser. Talk is talk, but it sure beats the shrugged shoulders we have been accustomed to. He is also welcome to engage us in a respectful discussion if he chooses. Both schools have faced similar financial decisions in recent years. There is no brick and glass.

At least we got baseball figured out this year.

vu72 · May 03, 2022, 12:43:59 PM

Quote from: E-Villan on May 03, 2022, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: may know on May 02, 2022, 02:28:51 PMYeah, for one of us at Valpo to be suggesting a drop to D3 for Evansville would be really self-unaware. Glass houses and all that.
Funny, I said pretty much the same thing on our board regarding this thread. I am not going to come on your board and fire back at your program, but there is quite a bit the OP has left out. Things like overall facilities, community support and resources, etc. He apparently isn't also aware that we recently got rid of our pathetic AD, hired a national search firm, and lured away a current D-1 AD from Cal-Bakersfield.

Like I said, I don't want to engage in a back and forth here on your board. I would cordially invite vu72 to visit our board, learn what we have been doing to correct our MBB and overall athletic situation. For the first time in years, we have heard our newer president and new AD adamantly state their strong desires to do whatever is necessary to be a regular conference competitor. The new AD went as far as stating we are a sleeping giant in his presser. Talk is talk, but it sure beats the shrugged shoulders we have been accustomed to. He is also welcome to engage us in a respectful discussion if he chooses. Both schools have faced similar financial decisions in recent years. There is no brick and glass.

At least we got baseball figured out this year.

E-Villan, thanks for your response and appreciate you not throwing me under the bus! I am truly glad that things are on the right track for Evansville's sake as well as the entire Valley. You are correct that we both, as well as thousands of other private and public institutions, face continued financial struggles. We all do well when everyone does well. Hopefully your basketball programs will improve as well. As an "older" member of this board, I can tell you of the terror we Valpo fans felt when the National Champion Purple Aces came to town with their floor length robes! Why did you change those?

E-Villan · May 03, 2022, 02:25:57 PM

Quote from: vu72 on May 03, 2022, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: E-Villan on May 03, 2022, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: may know on May 02, 2022, 02:28:51 PMYeah, for one of us at Valpo to be suggesting a drop to D3 for Evansville would be really self-unaware. Glass houses and all that.
Funny, I said pretty much the same thing on our board regarding this thread. I am not going to come on your board and fire back at your program, but there is quite a bit the OP has left out. Things like overall facilities, community support and resources, etc. He apparently isn't also aware that we recently got rid of our pathetic AD, hired a national search firm, and lured away a current D-1 AD from Cal-Bakersfield. Like I said, I don't want to engage in a back and forth here on your board. I would cordially invite vu72 to visit our board, learn what we have been doing to correct our MBB and overall athletic situation. For the first time in years, we have heard our newer president and new AD adamantly state their strong desires to do whatever is necessary to be a regular conference competitor. The new AD went as far as stating we are a sleeping giant in his presser. Talk is talk, but it sure beats the shrugged shoulders we have been accustomed to. He is also welcome to engage us in a respectful discussion if he chooses. Both schools have faced similar financial decisions in recent years. There is no brick and glass. At least we got baseball figured out this year.
E-Villan, thanks for your response and appreciate you not throwing me under the bus! I am truly glad that things are on the right track for Evansville's sake as well as the entire Valley. You are correct that we both, as well as thousands of other private and public institutions, face continued financial struggles. We all do well when everyone does well. Hopefully your basketball programs will improve as well. As an "older" member of this board, I can tell you of the terror we Valpo fans felt when the National Champion Purple Aces came to town with their floor length robes! Why did you change those?

I HOPE we are on the right track. The AD has been named all of two weeks. We have seen more communication from him in those two weeks than we did our previous one in 8 years. Our current president came in right as the McCarty fiasco was starting, so this has been his first chance to lead changes in the athletics department.

The status on Lickliter is still in the air. Many of our fans expect our new AD to fire him right away. Realistically, I think it is unfair to expect a guy to make a career-defining move as soon as he takes a position. I would rather he takes the time to develop the correct path, even if it means we have to burn the final year of Lickliter's contract. The problems aren't all on him, but he just isn't capable of the rebuild we need. His success at Butler was from a standpoint of maintaining, not rebuilding a program after the firestorm McCarty left. We need someone who can not only coach game plans for today's game, but can engage the community. Laid back and introverted isn't what we need.

The robes might be a little tough to bring back, but I can tell you that you won't find too many UE fans that would object to the sleeves coming back.

EddieCabot · May 05, 2022, 01:30:32 PM

Saw on Twitter that entire Evansville staff has been let go.

vu72 · May 05, 2022, 02:24:47 PM

Quote from: EddieCabot on May 05, 2022, 01:30:32 PM

Saw on Twitter that entire Evansville staff has been let go.

Now that is an AD with guts! Two weeks on the job and BOOM! Let's all hope Evansville can get back to some respectable basketball.

vu84v2 · May 05, 2022, 11:07:36 PM

Quote from: vu72 on May 05, 2022, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 05, 2022, 01:30:32 PM

Saw on Twitter that entire Evansville staff has been let go.

Now that is an AD with guts! Two weeks on the job and BOOM! Let's all hope Evansville can get back to some respectable basketball.

Indianapolis Star reports that two people who may get serious consideration are David Ragland and Tom Crean. Between those two, I would go with Ragland.

valpo95 · May 26, 2022, 08:31:17 AM

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere, yet congrats to David Ragland on being named head coach at Evansville.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33978897/evansville-announces-hiring-david-ragland-replace-todd-lickliter-men-basketball-coach

As I recall, Ragland was on VU's staff for three years before heading to Utah State, then to Butler. He is also from Evansville, so it seems like a great fit.