Stay in Horizon or Move to Missouri Valley?

[oklahomamick]

There are several pros and cons to staying in the Horizon as there are several pros and cons to moving to the Missouri Valley.  Which one would you prefer? 

[vu72]

If we had a choice I'd probably take the Valley.  Has a profile similar to the A-10. In 11-12 the A-10 was ranked 7th in the Sagarins while the Valley was 9th and Horizon 12th.  The Horizon was ranked 10th the year before and the Valley 12th so on balance maybe it doesn't make that much difference.  I just think the Valley has a higher profile.

[covufan]

I think I'd rather stay in Horizon and add Drake or Evansville.

[Valpo89]

Stay in the Horizon. Why is this even a topic?

[bbtds]

I agree with staying in the Horizon League. We need to see the fall out from all the conference switching. And #1 is that the Missouri Valley probably doesn't need or want Valpo outside of mens basketball, soccer, volleyball, softball and baseball.

[crusaderjoe]

IMO, if VU values being part of a conference that has a stronger tie-in to other smaller private universities within the Midwestern footprint, then it should explore the Valley.  If this distinction is irrelevant to Valpo, then there is no reason to even think about leaving the HL.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Well heck, if we're just spitballing now, and reconfiguration is spreading to the mid-majors,  then why not reconfigure the MVC and the Horizon so they are (more) "private"/"public" or "small"/"large"conferences...say

Horizon (or MVC)--Valpo, UDM, Bradley, Creighton, Oakland, Evansville, Drake, Loyola

MVC (or Horizon)--ISU, ISU, CSU, UWGB, UWM, UIC, MSU, UNI, YSU, WSU, WSU, SIU

Of course it would never happen.  It simultaneously makes more sense (similar grouping) and less sense (too much change to status quo). (Though heck, even Butler'd have to consider coming back to that.)

But to go still further into things that don't make sense--why do conferences matter?  Specifically, if VU can be in the Pioneer League in football and the HL in basketball, why can't schools separate the revenue sports from nonrevenue?

This thought first occurred to me while witnessing BCS shuffling--why should SMU's tennis team have to travel to UConn (or vice versa), simply because their football and/or basketball teams want to/ought to play?

The same applies now, as has been mentioned...why should Butler's volleyball team have to travel to UMass or URI (or vice versa), simply because the schools want their basketball teams to play? (Whither Lady Bulldog golf, a non A-10 sport?)

Seems to me that we might be able to make better conferences by separating revenue from non-revenue sports.  Better in the sense of making revenue sports conferences maximally competitive and nonrevenue sports minimally disruptive in terms of long bus trips and fostering more local rivalries. I don't want to suggest "a la carte" for each sport--it would be too confusing.

But when we already have a two-tiered system, both in terms of BCS/non, but in terms of revenue/non, maybe this is the way things are going to slowly move anyway, due to the slow inevitable gravity pulling our current system apart.

[vuweathernerd]

we're in the pfl in football because it's a generally low-tier non-scholarship conference and the horizon doesn't sponsor football.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

we're in the pfl in football because it's a generally low-tier non-scholarship conference and the horizon doesn't sponsor football.

Exactly my point.  We were in it before HL, even.  So why, if we're content to match our football program in its own conference, with "a jury of its peers", why not do the same with other sports?

[crusadermoe]

La Porte's comments about revenue sports aligning differently makes tremendous sense.    As you say, the precdent is there in football for various reasons already.   

With just 5-6 away games and played on weekends, travel in football is so much similar.  Basketball is probably a revenue sport only at the Big 6 conferences and a few others.  But it does seem to impact brand even though you can't measure that well.
Sending softball, soccer, swimming, and baseball teams out on the road for no revenue is a whole  other matter.   It basically means that these are 3 distinct groups that should align with schools as they see fit.   Complicated, but maybe less so than trying to send soccer teams from Philadelphia to Dayton. .   

[VULB#62]

Nice thoughts, but don't current NCAA rules (especially if a school wants to maintain D-I status) preclude that kind of smorgasbord approach to conference affiliation?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

That may well be true, but everything that has happened over the last two years suggests that the NCAA's continued thriving, if not its existence, is, fundamentally, at the mercy of its "haves" -- witness, say, the anger on Michigan blogs against "Indiana State", which has come to represent what they hate about the "have nots" (for the latter's vocal resistance against the $2k remuneration, narrowly rejected by the general membership).


Thus it's become like how the "haves" in the UN feel about some of the podunk countries that do nothing but say "no".  Hence, other "conferences" like the G8, etc., arise to address what they feel are their unmet needs--countries with whom they have much more in common.


I think the big BCS schools are coming to realize just how much distance is between them and the rest--just this week, remember, Jay Bilas suggested more than halving the size of DI basketball--and that maybe they could do better on their own.


I think we can often forget that the way things are is not how they always were, and thus how they will be.  Against what school did OSU play their first football game?  The answer is the same as that to the question, against whom did UM open the Big House?  My undergrad alma mater, Ohio Wesleyan University.  There were some dilapidated old footballs in our trophy case saying things like "OWU 6 OSU 3".  It seems laughable now.  Perhaps the next generation will look the same way at the fact that a "nobody" like Norfolk State was allowed to face off with, much less defeat, one of the blue bloods.

[oklahomamick]

I know it won't happen for some reason but the conference below is near perfect.  All private schools, all academically sound, midwest, good basketball, no football, good soccer and enough baseball to have automatic bid. I don't know what the name of the conference would be but here goes.....

Butler
Bradley
Creighton
Dayton
Detroit
Drake
Evansville
Oakland
St. Louis   
Valpo
Xavier

This conference might be intriguing enough that Depaul and Marquette may want to join. 

[vu72]

First off, at about 30,000 students I don't think Oakland is private.  Second, I wouldn't let the football team read that we don't have a football team.  You start sounding like a certain Butler basketball player!

It is a wonderful combo of teams.  It is dreaming of course, but fan forums are the perfect place to dream 

[bbtds]

I know it won't happen for some reason but the conference below is near perfect.  All private schools, all academically sound, midwest, good basketball, no football, good soccer and enough baseball to have automatic bid. I don't know what the name of the conference would be but here goes.....

Butler
Bradley
Creighton
Dayton
Detroit
Drake
Evansville
Oakland
St. Louis   
Valpo
Xavier

This conference might be intriguing enough that Depaul and Marquette may want to join. 

Butler and the 10 servants conference?

Lakes Basin conference?

Mid-Midwest conference?

Great Bodies of Water conference? (shortened to "Great Bodies")

Middle Lakes conference?

Great Privates conference?

Big 11 conference? (B11G)

Private 10 & Oakland conference?

Mid-Privates conference?

Keeping it Private league?

Non-Government league?

Sunset league?

Topps league?

Cold-Belt conference?

[sectionee]

That was funny stuff 

[dylanrocks]

Add Marquette, DePaul and a few more and call it the Big Privates Conference.

[VULB#62]

This is getting comical -- but there is merit to assembling that group.  Just gotta be careful of what the league names itself 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

bbtds almost cleaned house...well done...i'd like to humbly suggest:
(I suppose they get less plausible the further down you go)...

The InTuition League

Fairly Selective Conference (not referring to shots taken, at least...I can hear it now..."EFF ESS CEE!  EFF ESS CEE!")

The Straight To Euro League

Two Protestants, Four (And A Half) Catholics, And God Knows What Else Walk Into A Conference

still less sensical, let alone plausible:

We Can Haz Footbawz? (LOLcatspeak, to be "hip" with the new "lingo")

Conference of Schools Bryan Bouchie Considered And Ultimately Found Wanting

Brad Evans the Creighton-Dayton-Hatin'

For the bracket-minded (my personal fave):
Pick Drake And the Bad Seeds

and of course
The Well Endowed Privates League

[bbtds]

Drake and the Other Ugly Ducklings league?

Pope, Luther, Wesley, Whiskey, Stone/Campbell and Mich. St. East conference 

But/Brad,Crei/Day,Det/Drake,Val/Oak,Eville/Saint&Xav league

Big Flat league

Cornfield conference

Flat Central conference (FCC)

Up the Middle conference

Take back the Privates league

Privately Owned & Operated conference

Diaries & Golf Courses league

Gold Coast conference

American Urban/Rural league

[milanmiracle]

My vote would be to jump to the MVC, but it won't happen. Oh well, at least in the Horizon League there's less travel than the mid-con.

[NuPudge]

I would say move to the MVC and all sports and offer scholarships to kids and put it to rest.. Theirs conference is one of the few that isn't doing it.. Other schools are leaving to be able to compete against bigger and better schools for kids.. Most schools are offering lots of money to kids in grants and loans to get them to come there..

[FWalum]

I would say move to the MVC and all sports and offer scholarships to kids and put it to rest.. Theirs conference is one of the few that isn't doing it.. Other schools are leaving to be able to compete against bigger and better schools for kids.. Most schools are offering lots of money to kids in grants and loans to get them to come there..

Welcome to the board NuPudge.  Since you are a new user, I am not sure how familiar you are with VU and the Horizon League, so I didn't fully understand what you were getting at in your post.  VU offers scholarships in all the HL conference sponsored sports.  The HL and MVC have basketball as their major revenue producing sport and both the HL and MVC do not sponsor football. VU plays in the Pioneer League, a Division I FCS conference that is non- scholarship for football.  This conference consists of schools like Butler, Drake, Dayton, Daivdson, University of San Diego and other similar schools. 

I could go on and on but if you just cruise around the board a little I think you will get a good understanding of were things currently stand.  Have fun!

[VULB#62]

And to add to FWalum's note -- The MVC schools that play football (except Morehead State) do football as a FCS Scholarship endeavor, but it is a separate entity (MVFC) from the basic conference setup.  North Dakota State (not an regular MVC member), was the national champ coming out of the MVFC last season.