And so it begains

VU75 · June 02, 2013, 10:08:49 AM

From Sports Illustrated's S I Wire

NCAA president Mark Emmert met with Big 12 leaders Wednesday to discuss problems larger NCAA schools are having within the NCAA framework.

The result could be a fourth subdivision within the NCAA.

Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds said during the meeting that larger schools have problems unique to them among college athletic institutions. From Chron.com:

"I wouldn't say they're outraged or up in arms," Dodds said. "I just think they're concerned, and somehow the NCAA needs to federate in a way that people with common programs can vote on their programs."
There's speculation the fourth subdivision would include schools/teams from the so-called "power five" football conferences: SEC, Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12 and Big 12.

Emmert acknowledged the economic disparity between major and minor football schools is a growing concern. Texas led all NCAA schools with $163.3 million in athletic revenue in 2012, while Louisiana-Monroe had the smallest revenue of $11.3 million.

The fourth subdivision would not fully cure the growing problems in the NCAA, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby noted. From Chron.com's report:

"It would be unforthright to say that people aren't concerned and frustrated with the legislative process and the governance processes," Bowlsby said. "I just think there's a general uneasiness, and I haven't heard anybody that's got the master plan that fixes it all."
Emmert noted the fourth subdivision could work within the NCAA framework, but that it was the member institutions to make the change. From Chron.com:

"That's not my decision," he said. "That's the members' decision. And I hope they look at it. I think it would be healthy and the right thing to do."
Despite concerns about differences in size of schools, Bowlsby said he didn't sense any eagerness from schools to withdraw, saying everyone is committed to the NCAA while still looking for ways to improve it.

VULB#62 · June 02, 2013, 10:45:13 AM

Once more, it appears big-time FB will dictate everything. I have a hard time imagining what this might do to March Madness.

valpotx · June 02, 2013, 02:14:36 PM

Give me a freaking break. Just because they aren't given automatic national championships, and you have the little guys competing well now. F the big 5

StlVUFan · June 03, 2013, 07:35:52 AM

Quote from: valpotx on June 02, 2013, 02:14:36 PM
Give me a freaking break. Just because they aren't given automatic national championships, and you have the little guys competing well now. F the big 5

I feel ya. I am so sick of the big boys whining and the media enabling them. Either do it or shut up about it, I don't really give a damn either way. I'd like to concentrate on the actual game of basketball for a change.

wh · June 03, 2013, 09:25:28 AM

Would this new "break away" Division apply to all basketball as well as football? I could picture a new "Big 5" Division post season "Big Dance." They could start with 32 teams (about half) and go from there. They could even have a 64-68 team tournament and include essentially every program in the Big 5, which could be a huge money maker (especially in the early rounds).

This would also freeze everyone else in D-1 out (apps. 250 teams), who would be relegated to some sort of watered down "secondary tournament." This group in effect would become the new D-2.

LaPorteAveApostle · June 03, 2013, 09:39:03 AM

What we'll end up with is what we had before--kind of like the old Mid-Con:

all the D1 basketball will end up together, but there will be another tier of football, kind of like we had before we had to go D1 "aa".

Until they pass another rule that says you have to be SUPER D1 in football if you're going to be SUPER D1 in basketball

StlVUFan · June 05, 2013, 02:10:34 AM

We are fans of a corrupt organization. I am resigned to this. The only thing I can think to do is concentrate on being a pure fan of the sport and to hell with the organization. The NCAA tournament, in whatever form will ultimately include the likes of us little guys will just be gravy, and if we are shut out completely, I will simply learn to like Spring Training for the first time in my life.

If K, Self, Pitino, Boeheim, et. al. want to form their own division, my only reaction is, "Don't let the door smash your hind end in on the way out."

I recognize this is not necessarily a rational reaction. As someone who long ago bought into the hype on some level, my impulse is to try to recapture a love for the sport itself and treat the baggage as just that.

valpotx · June 05, 2013, 10:28:37 AM

I can confidently say that I won't give a crap about the 'top' level of basketball if that eventually splits into another division. I would not watch one single game, as I don't watch any of those teams now.

a3uge · June 09, 2013, 01:58:12 PM

It seems like this article is talking about football, not other sports. They're not going to tell Butler, Wichita State, and the George Mason's of the world that they're not good enough to compete with other schools in basketball. Think about other sports too... like baseball. I'm sure the MLB would not be too enthusiastic with Penn St playing D1 baseball while CS Fullerton play in a second tier conference. It just wouldn't make any sense. We might see a 4th football subdivision, but I doubt they'd even do that. The MAC and CUSA would end up losing money by being sent to a lower division, so I just don't see an incentive for the NCAA to prune down the divisions for football as well.

LaPorteAveApostle · June 09, 2013, 05:58:17 PM

BEGAINS

sorry i had to.

I think what's more likely is that the superschools will say "we don't need the NCAA, in fact, we can do better on our own" in football. Remember the CFA and all that? It wasn't e'er thus...

vu72 · June 09, 2013, 08:17:08 PM

It would be the beginning of "classless Indiana basketball" or is it the beginning of "class basketball"?.
Will winning the "big school" title mean as much as winning the "mid-size" or "small size" national championship? I think not. It will be "killing the golden goose" as the tv contracts will certainly change as the office pools become MUCH less interesting. I suppose this is reason one why it won't change when it comes to basketball.

ARCInsider · June 09, 2013, 10:16:23 PM

Football may split into new sub-divisions. I think it is more likely that the NCAA basketball tourney grows to 96 and includes the majority of the power 6 teams.

blackpantheruwm · June 10, 2013, 02:40:02 AM

I'm fairly certain that the sports we care about - basketball, soccer, baseball - will remain largely unaffected. These universities only care about getting theirs in football, where the real money is. They don't need to screw the rest of us over in other sports to accomplish that.

I feel for our friends in the MAC, MWC, Sun Belt and C-USA, but I'd rather they have to put up with being ineligible for a BCS title than for all of us to suffer in basketball/soccer/baseball.

LaPorteAveApostle · June 10, 2013, 11:47:38 AM

Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 10, 2013, 02:40:02 AMI'd rather they have to put up with being ineligible for a BCS title

shouldn't be a problem...they've been de facto ineligble for years.

Hey! Speaking of baseball, Panther,
Shaq Rap Insulting Kobe Bryant tell me how my ass taste

StlVUFan · June 10, 2013, 06:41:18 PM

Quote from: blackpantheruwm on June 10, 2013, 02:40:02 AM
I'm fairly certain that the sports we care about - basketball, soccer, baseball - will remain largely unaffected. These universities only care about getting theirs in football, where the real money is. They don't need to screw the rest of us over in other sports to accomplish that.

I feel for our friends in the MAC, MWC, Sun Belt and C-USA, but I'd rather they have to put up with being ineligible for a BCS title than for all of us to suffer in basketball/soccer/baseball.

Well, if it's only about football, then I have to admit I care a lot less since I'm not really a football fan.

I guess I didn't get that impression from the article, but you'd know better than me.

valporun · June 11, 2013, 11:54:56 AM

Wild guess is that the Big football conferences want their own division that purports to easier getting into the final four of the "College Football Playoff", which would have zip to do with the basketball/baseball/soccer programs and tournaments. The major football conferences want something that plays more to their television networks, not to what ESPN and Average Joe want from college sports.

wh · June 11, 2013, 11:59:32 AM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on June 09, 2013, 05:58:17 PM
BEGAINS

sorry i had to.

BEGAINS is a perfect portmanteau for "begins again." Nice wordplay by VU75, especially in the immediate aftermath of BCS conferences raiding schools from each other.

LaPorteAveApostle · June 11, 2013, 12:37:46 PM

Quote from: wh on June 11, 2013, 11:59:32 AMBEGAINS is a perfect portmanteau for "begins again." Nice wordplay by VU75, especially in the immediate aftermath of BCS conferences raiding schools from each other.

what are you, Grant Fuhr?

historyman · June 11, 2013, 06:08:24 PM

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ains

When you are feeling frisky and really needing a date?

BEG-AINS

vu84v2 · June 18, 2013, 07:06:32 PM

Several points:
1. If the Big 5 conferences think that they can go and form their own division (or whatever) and not get sued for anti-trust, they are kidding themselves. Utah paved the way for the BCS not to block teams from BCS bowls that were not from the Big 6 conferences. Any school or conference that would be financially hurt by being excluded would be foolish not to sue and push this issue in congress. Do you think that the Missouri Valley in basketball or the MAC in football would just accept this? If the Missouri Valley were to be included, do you think the Horizon League would just accept this?

If memory serves, the courts or congress could legitimately threaten all big school programs with eliminating their preferred tax status which would cost them a whole lot.

2. If somehow basketball were to split, it would be an absolute disaster for schools like Valparaiso. The "Big Dance" would be the tournament they show on the NBC Sports Network with the Championship game on Friday afternoon at 3:00 PM during basketball tournament season. The financial and exposure difference between two tiers of tournaments would be huge - hence I would expect point 1 to be pursued.