Question on VU's Division II Football Days

[Lurking Dog]

Immediately prior to Valpariaso's move to the Pioneer league, the Crusaders were classified D-II in football.  Does anyone recall how many scholarships they offered?

[usc4valpo]

Immediately prior to Valpariaso's move to the Pioneer league, the Crusaders were classified D-II in football. Does anyone recall how many scholarships they offered?

If my memery serves me correct, I think it was around 15 or 20 scholarships, divided appropriately amongst the team.  This was when Cookie was on the sideline.

[Lurking Dog]

Until recently, the Patriot League did not offer full football scholarships.  They did, however, allow the athletic department to buy out the loan and work study portion of financial aid packages.  It is my understanding that Georgetown football's athletic aid is still limited to this so-called Packaged Aid--and theirs only amounts to 15-20 equivalencies.

How do you think Valparaiso would react to a proposal to allow Packaged Aid in the PFL?  Maybe limited to 24 equivalencies?

I like 24 as a ceiling...it's used in NAIA and several D-II conferences.

[valpotx]

I would be fine with it, but we would have to start other women's sports to make it even under Title IX.  I would hate to give up any of our men's programs just to add football scholarships.

[historyman]

I would be fine with it, but we would have to start other women's sports to make it even under Title IX.  I would hate to give up any of our men's programs just to add football scholarships.

Don't forget that there would be the added cost to the university to pay for those buyouts of the financial aid packages. You can't take it for granted that any further financial commitment by the board of directors would be approved. 

[VULB#62]

If Butler, USD, Drake, Dayton, Jacksonville and Marist all can consistently produce credible football teams (not saying great, but ones that finish in the top half of the league consistently and vie for a championship once every 3 or so years -- hmmm, that sounds familiar) without going the scholarship route, there is absolutely no reason why Valpo cannot also do that.  EXCEPT, if it refuses to do right by the program and players.  Ultimately, it does come down to university commitment.

I'm sure ML has done research within the PFL environment to benchmark the VU program against the others. It would be helpful to see a comparative analysis     of the following:

Number and salaries of the coaching staff
Size of the recruiting budget
FB operating budget dollars
Facilities comparison
Sponsorship income
Fund raising income
Gate receipts
Graduation rates
Retention figures

[vu72]

So I'll look at the record:

We have won 43 games versus PFL teams.  Sounds pretty good.  Unfortunately more than half are against Butler who we have been playing since 1927.

Here's the records:

Butler             24-47
San Diego         5-15
Campbell           4-2    (yeah!!!!    )
Morehead          3-16
Drake               3-17
Jacksonville       2-5
Dayton             2-20
Davidson           1-7
Marist               0-5

Total              44-129  (winning percent 34 -- ex-Butler  20-80 or 25%)

However, back in the day (right 62??)  We lead the series with Ball State 18-14-1 (last game 1968) and Indiana State  20-10-2 (last game also 1968)

[vu72]

So I'll look at the record:

We have won 44 games versus PFL teams.  Sounds pretty good.  Unfortunately more than half are against Butler who we have been playing since 1927.

Here's the records:

Butler             24-47
San Diego         5-15
Campbell           4-2    (yeah!!!!    )
Morehead          3-16
Drake               3-17
Jacksonville       2-5
Dayton             2-20
Davidson           1-7
Marist               0-5

Total              44-129  (winning percent 34 -- ex-Butler  20-80 or 25%)

However, back in the day (right 62??)  We lead the series with Ball State 18-14-1 (last game 1968) and Indiana State  20-10-2 (last game also 1968)

[Lurking Dog]

If Butler, USD, Drake, Dayton, Jacksonville and Marist all can consistently produce credible football teams (not saying great, but ones that finish in the top half of the league consistently and vie for a championship once every 3 or so years -- hmmm, that sounds familiar) without going the scholarship route, there is absolutely no reason why Valpo cannot also do that.  EXCEPT, if it refuses to do right by the program and players.  Ultimately, it does come down to university commitment.

These would be reasons to consider altering the PFL's current nonscholarship model:

1.  After 21 years, it is clear that there will be no nonscholarship classification established in Division I.  "I-AA Mid-Major" was Patty Viverito's mantra for two decades, but even she will now admit that it's not going to happen.

2.  Performance against non-league FCS opponents is embarrasing.  This is a problem for every member of the PFL.

3.  The PFL now has an automatic bid to the NCAA playoffs.  The league asked (begged?) for this.  Now it's time to step things up.

4.  http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/brad-wilson/index.ssf/2013/09/ivy_leagues_distaste_for_football_scholarships_may_sunder_scheduling_ties_with_patriot_league.html
The Ivy League has hinted that it will schedule fewer games against the Patriot League.  And scheduling the PFL might be an alternative (packaged aid hasn't been objectionable to the Ivies).  This would be a good turn of events for the PFL, but if we're a bad joke, they won't keep us on the schedule for long.

[covufan]

The Ivy League has hinted that it will schedule fewer games against the Patriot League.  And scheduling the PFL might be an alternative (packaged aid hasn't been objectionable to the Ivies).  This would be a good turn of events for the PFL, but if we're a bad joke, they won't keep us on the schedule for long.

If the PFL does this, I hope they use some thought before they make the matchups.  If Valpo, Campbell, Stetson or Davidson play any of the top half of the Ivy League, it could be a long afternoon.  The PFL needs matchups that can be close, not blowouts. 

[Swarm94]

Tom Horne was the Head Coach in 1989.  He coached the last four years of D2 football.  He went 2 -27 -1 in his first three years.  The last year in D2 his team won three games.  In '93 which was first year in Pioneer they won 5.  In '94 they went 7 - 3.  They were also the First Pioneer Football league team to schedule a game with an IVY,  Yale in Soldier Field ('97 season).  Recruiting advantage

[crusadermoe]

Yes, he had a very respectable run in the Pioneer League.    People forget that 10-year run when they say Valpo has always been lousy at football.     

Yes, the got blown out by San Diego and Dayton a few times during that period, but they were usually solid and competitive.    But then Adams and Carlson arrived.