Why Talk So Against The Horizon League?

[blackpantheruwm]

Lots of quality input here from vu72, BigD,Jimmy and others.  I think the info quoted above makes a lot of sense.

I don't see much reason for either the Big East or the MVC to expand beyond 10 teams.  That number is perfect for a basketball-centric league because it allows a full round robin schedule.  I know from reading Big East boards that most fans are very happy at 10.  From a financial standpoint, it's hard to beat a model where a 10 team league sends 4-6 teams to the NCAAT, which is what they've done the last two years. 

Opportunities for Valpo would seem to arise if the MVC loses a single team (not sure who would leave?) or if either Dayton or SLU (but only one) leaves the A-10.  In any case, the key is to continue shining up the program (performance/facilities) to make it as attractive as possible when the next opportunity comes around.

This thread is one of the reasons I think we need a centralized Horizon League website. We tried putting together The Horizone but that didn't work because there was a lot of work involved. Perhaps if we took Jim Squire's On the Horizon blog that just aggregates press clippings for all the HL teams, cleaned it up to look modern and made it so it pulled all the blogs and newspapers that covered the HL (not just my PantherU but Phear the Phoenix, Bryan Everson's Press Row Sports), we could have something to sustain and bring us together for these types of great discussion. Let's also use Chuck A's Horizon League forum as the board. Just spitballing ideas.

[VULB#62]

Opportunities for Valpo would seem to arise if the MVC loses a single team (not sure who would leave?) or if either Dayton or SLU (but only one) leaves the A-10.  In any case, the key is to continue shining up the program (performance/facilities) to make it as attractive as possible when the next opportunity comes around.

After reading all the input to this discussion (and I really appreciate the involvement of Panther and Big D on this), two thing are clear to me:

     1 -- It's not our (Valpo's or the forum's) decision to be invited, so all this chatter is conjecture.  Sure, Valpo can campaign to the various conference powers that be in hopes of attracting an invitation, but our forum discussions, are irrelevant to that process.

     2 -- In light of #1 above, I agree that our only recourse is to do just as zville says:  do whatever we can to make Valpo as attractive as possible for whatever may evolve.  Work hard to take the HL to the next level as well - a rising tide floats all boats.  These are things we can control (to an extent).  And then, who knows?

Bryce is doing his part in recruiting some great players and finding ways to win the HL. To take it up a notch, as most have stated, we need an improved OOC schedule.  That might be happening as we relax during the summer.  But that, in turn a little further down the road, also might be tied to the next thought.

What needs to happen is that the university has to step up sooner than later and throw some well-earned (by MBB) funds at the program (not just at Bryce's salary).  IMO, there is a lot that could be done to the ARC without the need to first build a field house.  Things that come to mind:  the desperately needed north wing (it's in the 30 year plan) that would provide upper tier seating above much needed concession and lavatory additions as well as new and expanded training/sports med facilities which are also desperately needed.  Once that is done, the ARC could handle conversion to better chair back seating on both sidelines as well as permanent east baseline seating.  The capacity might not be enhanced greatly -- maybe it goes from the publicized 5,000 to 5,600 or 6,000 or so, but the quality would be much improved. And the intimate, intense atmosphere would be preserved.  None of that would require a field house to be built first.

[blackpantheruwm]

Loyola's renovation of the Gentile Center proved to me that the ARC doesn't need to be replaced, but a full-scale renovation could be just what the doctor ordered if they can get it all done in one summer (like Loyola). I wonder how much the Gentile reno cost, because the only dollar amounts I've seen have been tied to the whole deal.

[zvillehaze]

What needs to happen is that the university has to step up sooner than later and throw some well-earned (by MBB) funds at the program (not just at Bryce's salary). 

Others close to Valpo would know better than me, but the elephant in the room is that NCAA tournament payouts have been shrinking and will continue to shrink as long as the league in one-and-done in the NCAA tourney.  My guess is that is putting a squeeze on some budgets.  Would be interested in knowing how that impacts Valpo's (and other HL team's) operating budgets.  ML or Paul Oren could probably shed some light on this issue.

[usc4valpo]

Big D -


Good feedback, thanks.


Valpo needs to have a truly outstanding season and beat someone of significance. Also, the MVC may lose Wichita State or some other team, and a spot may be open.


Also, you could imply that Valparaiso is part of the Chicagoland area. Some Hoosiers may take offense to that, but what the heck.

[VULB#62]

Also, you could imply that Valparaiso is part of the Chicagoland area. Some Hoosiers may take offense to that, but what the heck.

Hey, if it's within a 1.25 hour drive (non-rush hour) of any city it's part of "Anycityland" regardless of what a state boundary on a map says.  Valparasians (is that a word?) get a majority (if not all) of their media from the city to the NW and many commute to that city to the NW and owe their mortgages and pay their insurance to entities in that city.  They also go to that city to take in MLB, NBA, MLS, NHL and NFL games of teams that they have had life-long loyalties to.  Bottom line is that any town within a 75 mile radius is a suburb of that city.  The association does not stop at State Line Avenue, Calumet City.

I've lived in the Boston area for 42 years and now live in Wisconsin.  Why did I enjoy making that point?   

[usc4valpo]

62. excellent analysis. IMO, given the big picture, Valpo in the long run would be a better representative of the MVC than Loyola.   We will wait and see.

[a3uge]

Also, you could imply that Valparaiso is part of the Chicagoland area. Some Hoosiers may take offense to that, but what the heck.

Hey, if it's within a 1.25 hour drive (non-rush hour) of any city it's part of "Anycityland" regardless of what a state boundary on a map says.  Valparasians (is that a word?) get a majority (if not all) of their media from the city to the NW and many commute to that city to the NW and owe their mortgages and pay their insurance to entities in that city.  They also go to that city to take in MLB, NBA, MLS, NHL and NFL games of teams that they have had life-long loyalties to.  Bottom line is that any town within a 75 mile radius is a suburb of that city.  The association does not stop at State Line Avenue, Calumet City.

I've lived in the Boston area for 42 years and now live in Wisconsin.  Why did I enjoy making that point?   

The problem is that nobody from Chicago really identifies Valpo as part of their market. Chicago as a market doesn't support college sports as it is. A market like Milwaukee or Dayton could draw some interest with a local TV package if their teams ever became consistently decent. Valpo, is in a weird location that doesn't have much potential for large TV viewership. Endowment, student, and alumni interest may be good, but the reality of the situation is that Valpo still has a small enrollment for D1, which means limited resources, and not a lot of potential for decent TV numbers.

The flip side is that if Valpo is decent every year, they'll drive decent ratings/attendance every team they play. The Horizon is situated in a bunch of great sports markets like Milwaukee, Green Bay, Dayton, and Detroit. Who's actually been the best for the league; the good markets, or the team that has been winning? I personally think the whole large market approach is overrated when it comes to mid majors. As online streaming becomes more and more prevalent, location becomes less and less important. I think over time the obsession for conferences to add markets will become less of a factor.

[VULB#62]

We just have to get even better and maintain that profile over time. In doing so we force attention. DePaul was Chicago's baby when they were good. But they couldn't maintain it.  We need to maintain excellence and "anycityland" will eventually have to take notice. Loyola won a national championship and pissed it all away.  We had "the shot" and pissed that away.  We can not afford to blow the opportunity this present team is placing at our feet.

In the next two to three years Valpo can take the next step toward a national presence --- or not.  I hope the university administration realizes what great potential we have to expand not only our brand but our ministry.  Failing to do so is turning our backs on a gift.

[Vinny]

You hit the nail on the head, 62. The athletics department, and in a way, VU is at a crossroads. Show some, heck ANY, commitment towards improving things for Bryce, and Valpo's profile could soar. Proceed as status quo and risk falling into irrelevance once he moves on.

As others have asked, why can't VU do its part to lift Bryce? His coaching tenure at Valpo will be his second, and last, golden ticket for the school. If VU can't cash in on this opportunity, the Horizon League will be as high as it will ever go. Which is really sad when you think about it.

[StlVUFan]

not just my PantherU but Phear the Phoenix, Bryan Everson's Press Row Sports

It already does, actually as well as UIC's Whoosh!Net and WSU's RaiderRoundball, although those may not be what you consider blogs.