When we get healthy?

[FWalum]

You won't see Coleman...he isn't eligible for this game on the 2nd.

Please don't drop a "bomb shell" like this without some additional information.

If this was confidential material then don't mention it at all until an official release, if not confidential then please give us some back story or remind us of the situation that we have obviously forgotten.

[HC]

My bad, boy was i tired this morning.   
I went back removed my original comment.

[FWalum]

My bad, boy was i tired this morning.   
I went back removed my original comment.

Whew.... glad to hear that it was just a mistake.

[wh]

The "big" lineup will be forced to play zone quite a bit in the HL, which often features lineups with 4 skilled quick players.  Dont get me wrong, the ability to have a big lineup is intriguing and a nice luxury, but it will be another arrow available in the quiver to use and not necessarily a definate. 

Basketball is about making defensive stops and overall team quickness.

lowposter

I agree that a size advantage doesn't automatically outweigh a quickness advantage.  If it did, GB would have been the preseason pick to win the league with Brown at 7-1 and Cougill at 6-9.  That said, I do think a high quality big front line is a distinct advantage in most facets of the game.

---Last year's Detroit front line included Eli Holman at 6-10, LaMarcus Lowe at 6-11, and Chase Simon at 6-6.  They didn't worry about matching up with smaller HL teams.  Those teams had to worry about matching up with them, including us in the HL championship game when they completely overpowered us.

---Think about Butler 3 years ago.  Their front line included Howard at 6-8, Hayward at 6-9, and Smith at 6-11.  They went 20-0 against league opponents. They created match-up problems for every HL team they faced, and looked straight in the eyes of every D-1 Major they beat on the way to the NCAA Tournament championship game.

---Think about all the good D-1 Majors that dominate smaller, quicker HL teams every year at this time.  You never see them trying to "size down" their starting lineups to match up better with smaller Mid's.  They may make adjustments as the game goes on if they can't get out quick enough to guard some hot 3-pt. shooting or are getting beat down the floor, but they always start from a position of strength.

The bottom line is teams don't play small, quick line-ups because they're better.  They play them because they don't have a choice.  Only an extremely small pct of the population is the size of desired college basketball front lines, which means there are only so many good bigs to go around.  If you're fortunate enough to have them, they need to be on the floor as much as possible. 

[zvillehaze]

The bottom line is teams don't play small, quick line-ups because they're better.  They play them because they don't have a choice.  Only an extremely small pct of the population is the size of desired college basketball front lines, which means there are only so many good bigs to go around.  If you're fortunate enough to have them, they need to be on the floor as much as possible. 

I somewhat agree with this, but what I really think most good coaches do is find a way to get their best players on the court for the greatest amount of minutes.  The big discussion last year was where Broekhoff should play.  He played the 4 spot almost exclusively, not because he was more effective there, but because he had to for Bryce to get his best players on the floor.  Playing Vucic while sitting Bogan or Kenney just didn't make sense.

As wh points out, Valpo has the option of playing bigger this year because Capobianco, Van Wijk and Fernandez are all capable of making solid contributions.  Just remember that by going big and giving 20 or so minutes to Fernandez, you have to take minutes away from Buggs/Boggs/Dority/Bogan.  That may make sense at times, but I still think you'll see Valpo using the smaller lineup quite a bit.

---Think about Butler 3 years ago.  Their front line included Howard at 6-8, Hayward at 6-9, and Smith at 6-11.  They went 20-0 against league opponents. They created match-up problems for every HL team they faced, and looked straight in the eyes of every D-1 Major they beat on the way to the NCAA Tournament championship game.

I know wh has worked hard to erase all Butler memories, but this isn't quite right.     In 2010, Butler played 6'3" Willie Veasley in the frontcourt (Smith rarely played).  In 2011, they played Smith and Howard together, but they were usually surrounded by 3 guards in Nored, Mack and Vanzant.  Again, Stevens just did whatever he could to get his best players minutes.

[FWalum]

The "big" lineup will be forced to play zone quite a bit in the HL, which often features lineups with 4 skilled quick players.  Dont get me wrong, the ability to have a big lineup is intriguing and a nice luxury, but it will be another arrow available in the quiver to use and not necessarily a definate. 

Basketball is about making defensive stops and overall team quickness.

lowposter

I agree that a size advantage doesn't automatically outweigh a quickness advantage.  If it did, GB would have been the preseason pick to win the league with Brown at 7-1 and Cougill at 6-9.  That said, I do think a high quality big front line is a distinct advantage in most facets of the game.

---Last year's Detroit front line included Eli Holman at 6-10, LaMarcus Lowe at 6-11, and Chase Simon at 6-6.  They didn't worry about matching up with smaller HL teams.  Those teams had to worry about matching up with them, including us in the HL championship game when they completely overpowered us.

---Think about Butler 3 years ago.  Their front line included Howard at 6-8, Hayward at 6-9, and Smith at 6-11.  They went 20-0 against league opponents. They created match-up problems for every HL team they faced, and looked straight in the eyes of every D-1 Major they beat on the way to the NCAA Tournament championship game.

---Think about all the good D-1 Majors that dominate smaller, quicker HL teams every year at this time.  You never see them trying to "size down" their starting lineups to match up better with smaller Mid's.  They may make adjustments as the game goes on if they can't get out quick enough to guard some hot 3-pt. shooting or are getting beat down the floor, but they always start from a position of strength.

The bottom line is teams don't play small, quick line-ups because they're better.  They play them because they don't have a choice.  Only an extremely small pct of the population is the size of desired college basketball front lines, which means there are only so many good bigs to go around.  If you're fortunate enough to have them, they need to be on the floor as much as possible. 

Was going to say something along these lines myself until I saw your post.  If we had a bunch of "plodders" (see Vucic) on the team this might be an issue but, I think our bigs move relatively well.  Even though the HL is more of a guard oriented league I don't think there are that many 5 and 4 position guys that are going to draw Kevin, Capo or Vashil away from the basket with their 3 point shooting ability and then drive around them for easy layups.

I think as zvillehaze explains we will want to get our best players on the floor for as many minutes as possible and without a doubt those minutes are going to have to include some combination of Ryan, Kevin and Bobby.

[wh]

Consider it another way.  If Bryce doesn't play Kevin and Bobby together, they are only going to play 40 minutes combined.  How does that work?  Does our HL 1st team player Kevin play less than a year ago?  Obviously not.  That only leaves 15-17 back-up minutes for Capo.  Does anyone honestly think that's what Bryce has in mind for him - to be Kevin's back-up and play maybe as little as a third of a game?  Probably not.  That only leaves one other possibility.  They ARE going to be on the court together for some number of minutes.

[chef]

Bobby will get some extra minutes at the four, but most of his minutes will come at the five. Kevin will play 24-25 minutes a game. There will be plenty of minutes for Bobby. Coach Gore covered this subject on the post-game show Saturday.

[FWalum]

Making this all plain and simple, I think wh and I are saying that Bobby will also see the floor 24-25 minutes a game when healthy.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I agree--but do we think Ryan will see any minutes at 4 in this arrangement? 

If not, it's simpler--there's 80 minutes for the 4 & 5, so theoretically, KVW & Bobby 30 and Vashil 20, making, say, 10 mpg when KVW and Bobby are both on the court.

If Ryan plays the 4 at times, it becomes a little more complex, namely, say he plays 10 mpg at the 4, then we are back at the estimated KVW/Capo of 25 mpg but still giving Vashil 20. 

To me, that seems like a lot for Vashil (in the sense of more could be given to the other guys), but maybe KVW--and definitely Capo--are still working back to full strength.

[wh]

With the talent and experience this team has, it should not be unrealistic to think we could go 27-5, including 14 wins in conference and the HL tournament championship.  However, using a combination of one inside player, one all-around all-star and a roster full of hot-at-home/cold-on-the-road long distance shooters is not going to get us there - any more than it did last year.

[bbtds]

With the talent and experience this team has, it should not be unrealistic to think we could go 27-5, including 14 wins in conference and the HL tournament championship.  However, using a combination of one inside player, one all-around all-star and a roster full of hot-at-home/cold-on-the-road long distance shooters is not going to get us there - any more than it did last year.

You hit that nail on the head exactly, wh. There most be more! This is where I truly believe Bryce makes or breaks his chances for the future with this team and how far they go this year.

[vu72]

I think we are a much better and more well rounded team than last years regular season champion.  That is why we will be in ever game going forward and none of which seem out of reach regardless of the location.

It' seems fairly simple: last year we played 8 guys and a 7' who sat the fast majority of time and really brought nothing new to the table.  One of our 'bigs" was a guy who could shoot it from the 3 but didn't really like to bang like a backup big should.  We had Matt who of course seems not only back, but better, and a skinny kid who could on occasion light it up but would also chuck up a 30' with 20 on the shot clock.

This year we add a true banger, a shot blocker and two guys who are bigger and can shoot as well.  Oh, and the backup point isn't either and is built like a brick uh...basket ball goal 

We will shortly have all the pieces.  It will depend on coaching, hard play and luck, but we have the potential for really great things...

[zvillehaze]

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/valparaiso-almost-complete/article_cd5f3f7c-3797-11e2-9518-001a4bcf887a.html

[vubballfan10]

I think we are a much better and more well rounded team than last years regular season champion.  That is why we will be in ever game going forward and none of which seem out of reach regardless of the location. It' seems fairly simple: last year we played 8 guys and a 7' who sat the fast majority of time and really brought nothing new to the table.  One of our 'bigs" was a guy who could shoot it from the 3 but didn't really like to bang like a backup big should.  We had Matt who of course seems not only back, but better, and a skinny kid who could on occasion light it up but would also chuck up a 30' with 20 on the shot clock. This year we add a true banger, a shot blocker and two guys who are bigger and can shoot as well.  Oh, and the backup point isn't either and is built like a brick uh...basket ball goal  We will shortly have all the pieces.  It will depend on coaching, hard play and luck, but we have the potential for really great things...

I like the subtle reference to Jay Harris. 

[wh]

I know wh has worked hard to erase all Butler memories, but this isn't quite right.   

My joy over arrogant, condescending, dismissive Butler fans getting their wish to be part of another league is always tempered by knowing that hundreds of decent A-10 message board fans are soon to be put upon by those same knuckleheads.

[justducky]

I believe that Dority could end up being a huge factor for us when he gets on the floor, but I am not sure how he really makes a difference in your "go big" scenario.  Are you suggesting that he and Buggs would be on the floor together when we go big?

Yes, at times they will be on the floor together. The go-big lineup will be most necessary against the strongest teams on our current schedule and and almost every potential BCS post season opponent. In a go-big situation against  teams that have as good or better quickness at every position, we will be forced to reduce the rotation at the 1 and the 2 to where it may almost exclude everyone but  Buggs, Dority, and Coleman. That means that the more we use the big lineup in those situations the more minutes at the 2 Dority will be given.

Sure against an average team of average quickness Will or Ben would do just fine, but once again I have to think back to the Detroit game where Harris and Bogan combined for 9 turnovers with many coming from the off guard position. I just do not think that our go-bigs can do anything against that kind of pressure unless our 1 and 2 are capable of near turnover free basketball.

So my best guess for LaVonte's total minutes would include almost all of Eriks backup time (maybe 9 or 10) plus an additional 4 to 7 at the off guard. As good as Capo appears to be, I just can not see how he can get 25 minutes per game (not enough time to go around). I would estimate his minutes at not more than 22 average and frequently much less.