This Year's Team

wh · October 21, 2021, 01:55:51 PM

Quote from: justducky on October 21, 2021, 01:27:52 PM
Quote from: vu72 on October 21, 2021, 09:14:23 AMBased on Todd's assessment Thomas Kithier is going to be the star.

I am still worried about his defense and a real star has to defend his position.

I've never watched him play; thus, I don't know a thing about how well Thomas Kithier defends. What I would guess is that coming from Michigan State he is an effective, highly physical defender. Izzo is known as a fanatical advocate of relentless, hard-nosed, defensive-minded play. You play his way or go to the end of the bench, regardless of who you are. Secondly, Tom was not a scorer, yet he logged a lot of minutes. If he wasn't a strong defensive-minded inside defender, why else would he have been playing?

Obviously, you feel differently. What is it that concerns you?

vu72 · October 21, 2021, 04:08:46 PM

Here's an article from December of last year about Thomas.

https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2020/12/michigan-state-sticks-with-thomas-kithier-in-starting-center-role.html

Sounds like he has some fouling issues but Tom Izzo also said:

Izzo praised his screen setting, ball screen defense, defense and other attributes.

"We've got bigger problems that we've got to solve than Thomas Kithier," Izzo said. "He did a great, great job today."

VUGrad1314 · October 21, 2021, 04:14:07 PM

So he was logging minutes and well liked by his coach... So why the transfer? It's not like he was a low\mid major player trying to transfer up for more exposure for a possible NBA career. I mean don't get me wrong I'm glad to have him I'm just confused as to why he would leave. I'm confused by the Wisconsin exodus too except for Hedstrom. Grateful but confused.

crusader05 · October 21, 2021, 04:18:49 PM

Wisconsin seems to absolutely be a team dynamic vs coach issue just based on the reporter around it and the leaked audio. There seems to have been a discontent with the view that the coach was coaching for his job, not the team.

MSU just seems like a culture fit and maybe also a little bit of getting pushed to the side when new people came in vs getting the time and space to develop. In some of these big programs when the class coming behind you is strong you can go from starter that the coach has patience to develop to bench sitter.

It really sounds like a lot of our transfers were looking for a more hands on, person to person experience either because they realized the big school dynamic wasn't for them or because they wanted a change of pace with their extra year.

I've heard from some on campus that the transfers love Valpo and comment often about how much nicer it is to be on a small campus with more connections.

vu84v2 · October 21, 2021, 04:30:39 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 21, 2021, 04:14:07 PM
So he was logging minutes and well liked by his coach... So why the transfer? It's not like he was a low\mid major player trying to transfer up for more exposure for a possible NBA career. I mean don't get me wrong I'm glad to have him I'm just confused as to why he would leave. I'm confused by the Wisconsin exodus too except for Hedstrom. Grateful but confused.

-Anderson was a role player at Wisconsin - look at his minutes in each game (and note that he played five minutes in each of Wisconsin's NCAA tournament games).
-Not sure what the issue was with King, though in his last season (2019-2020, in which he left early) it looks like he was fairly inconsistent. In three of his last 10 games he had 20+ minutes and no points.
-Kithier was a role player who seemed to play less and less of a role.

I don't think that there was anything inherently wrong with any of these guys (my friends who are Wisconsin fans just said there were guys that played better). All four of these guys have a great opportunity at Valpo, which should be encouraging to Valpo fans (it is to me). We just need to be realistic that none of these guys are likely to be the next Alec Peters or Ryan Broekhoff (of course, one can hope). A realistic expectation, in my view, is that King and Anderson average 10 ppg and that Kithier gives a great effort each game (which means being a big part of Valpo being consistently competitive on defense and the boards). No idea how many minutes per game we can expect from Hedstrom...hopefully 15 minutes per game in which he is a strong presence inside.

wh · October 21, 2021, 04:51:20 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 21, 2021, 04:14:07 PM
So he was logging minutes and well liked by his coach... So why the transfer? It's not like he was a low\mid major player trying to transfer up for more exposure for a possible NBA career. I mean don't get me wrong I'm glad to have him I'm just confused as to why he would leave. I'm confused by the Wisconsin exodus too except for Hedstrom. Grateful but confused.

Their reasons for coming to Valpo have been reported on as nauseam. I can't think of one player that I don't know why they transferred. Are you saying you don't know why, or are you saying you do know why but you don't understand the rationale behind the reason?

justducky · October 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PM

Quote from: wh on October 21, 2021, 01:55:51 PMI've never watched him play; thus, I don't know a thing about how well Thomas Kithier defends.

Sorry but I've been bit busy. Could somebody look up his fouls per minute? My memory is that they had McMillan like regularity which suggests he was getting outmaneuvered in the Big 10.

VUGrad1314 · October 21, 2021, 06:07:13 PM

Quote from: justducky on October 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: wh on October 21, 2021, 01:55:51 PMI've never watched him play; thus, I don't know a thing about how well Thomas Kithier defends.
Sorry but I've been bit busy. Could somebody look up his fouls per minute? My memory is that they had McMillan like regularity which suggests he was getting outmaneuvered in the Big 10.

Whether that's true or not just by virtue of moving to the MVC he should be able to realize a significant reduction in his foul rate. He should be fine.

wh · October 21, 2021, 06:13:12 PM

Quote from: justducky on October 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: wh on October 21, 2021, 01:55:51 PMI've never watched him play; thus, I don't know a thing about how well Thomas Kithier defends.

Sorry but I've been bit busy. Could somebody look up his fouls per minute? My memory is that they had McMillan like regularity which suggests he was getting outmaneuvered in the Big 10.

I don't know about his fouls/minute either, but I do know what I read about Izzo singing Tom's praises in the article '72 posted a little ways up the thread. That's the most significant difference between him and McMillan. Nothing Mileek ever did, especially defensively and ESPECIALLY "the little things," would ever have received praise from Izzo. His season stats under Izzo would have included 4 fouls in 4 minutes played in game 1 followed by 32 DNP's. Are you kidding with this Thomas/Mileek comparison?

vu72 · October 21, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: vu84v2 on October 21, 2021, 04:30:39 PMrealistic expectation, in my view, is that King and Anderson average 10 ppg and that Kithier gives a great effort each game (which means being a big part of Valpo being consistently competitive on defense and the boards). No idea how many minutes per game we can expect from Hedstrom...hopefully 15 minutes per game in which he is a strong presence inside.

You might be right, we'll find out soon. The reality is that our transfers are going to get a LOT more playing time which leads to consistency and consistency leads to scoring, gaining confident that you won't be yanked at the next timeout or that your role is that of a player who gives the main guys a break for a minute or two.

Let's think way back to a kid named Cory Johnson who went off to big time Iowa State and jn his second year got 8.6 minutes of playing time per game and averaged 2.7 ppg and 1.4 rebounds. Then he comes to Valparaiso and in his first year gets 29.8 minutes per game and averages 15.6 ppg and 5.8 rebounds. We could look at others but I'm told Thomas will remind us of Cory. We'll see.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cory-johnson-1.html

justducky · October 21, 2021, 07:28:28 PM

Quote from: wh on October 21, 2021, 06:13:12 PMAre you kidding with this Thomas/Mileek comparison?

No - not kidding! His limiting factor before seemed to be defense ability and not effort. Hope I am wrong. The Cory Johnson comparisons are interesting but the Kithier talk seems centered on his offense. I don't remember Cory much on defense other than he gave some a little extra room so that they didn't get around him. Maybe that will be enough in the MVC. With all our weapons our interior defense will determine many of our outcomes. My fingers are crossed.

FWalum · October 22, 2021, 11:25:57 PM

Quote from: justducky on October 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PMSorry but I've been bit busy. Could somebody look up his fouls per minute? My memory is that they had McMillan like regularity which suggests he was getting outmaneuvered in the Big 10.

Your barking up the wrong tree. Thomas did exactly what Izzo wanted an undersized 5 to do. He was expendable with a role unlike his new role at VU. Stratigically things have changed for him and I expect he will adjust well to his expanded role. Fouling is somewhat controllable, I'd look at his FG%, RPG and AST numbers before being concerned about the foulîng he did for Izzo.

justducky · October 23, 2021, 03:44:38 PM

Quote from: FWalum on October 22, 2021, 11:25:57 PMThomas did exactly what Izzo wanted an undersized 5 to do. He was expendable with a role unlike his new role at VU. Stratigically things have changed for him and I expect he will adjust well to his expanded role. Fouling is somewhat controllable, I'd look at his FG%, RPG and AST numbers before being concerned about the foulîng he did for Izzo.

Hope that you are right and I am worrying about nothing. Even if his defense equals Cory Johnson I fear the MVC will attack us inside as Kithier and Hedstrom stand out as possible targets. Our defense elsewhere looks solidly improved (on paper) so where should Drake, Loyola, MSU and UNI attack?

Thankfully we will soon see for ourselves but if Thomas and Joe can defend and rebound then top 4 looks realistic. Top 4 in the Valley this year could be a major achievement.