Valpo in the Polls (and the HL too)

[valpopal]

Sagarin has Valpo at #81 (YSU at #97, Detroit at #98), and the Horizon League is listed at #12:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt1213.htm

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc1213.htm

[chef]

It's just to early to look at computer rankings. Ignore them until a month into the season. Just root for the Horizon League teams to keep winning and the rest will take care of itself.

[milanmiracle]

It's just to early to look at computer rankings. Ignore them until a month into the season. Just root for the Horizon League teams to keep winning and the rest will take care of itself.

Exactly. They're nice message board fodder, but really who cares? We're number 22 in the mid major poll...whoo hoo? Just keeping winning and the rest will take care of itself.

[KL31NY]

It's just to early to look at computer rankings. Ignore them until a month into the season. Just root for the Horizon League teams to keep winning and the rest will take care of itself.

Along the same lines, ESPN's Joe Lunardi has already been tweeting "last four in" and "first four out" notes. There's way too much season left to get wrapped up in this stuff right now.

[StlVUFan]

It's just to early to look at computer rankings. Ignore them until a month into the season. Just root for the Horizon League teams to keep winning and the rest will take care of itself.

Along the same lines, ESPN's Joe Lunardi has already been tweeting "last four in" and "first four out" notes. There's way too much season left to get wrapped up in this stuff right now.

Not to mention that Lunardi is a cartoon character as prognosticators go.

I do my best to avoid prognostications, period.  Bracketology is especially something I have very interest in, even in February.  Just one of the many ways that ESPN attempts (but fails) to ruin my College basketball joy.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

The Worldwide Leader blows.

http://deadspin.com/5929361/how-espn-ditched-journalism-and-followed-skip-bayless-to-the-bottom-a-tim-tebow-story

[StlVUFan]

The Worldwide Leader blows.

http://deadspin.com/5929361/how-espn-ditched-journalism-and-followed-skip-bayless-to-the-bottom-a-tim-tebow-story

The Worldwide Leader has been crap for years, my friend.  Welcome on board.

[crusadermoe]

Maybe this was posted at some point.    ESPN the Mag ranked all 320+ teams pre-season..    Obviously they would not know all of the teams.
#25 SLU, #26 New Mexico  #50 Murray State, Detroit #83, Valpo #107 Neb. #151     NIU and Chicago State real bad at #300+   Ga State was #260ish.     So we havent' proven much yet except we can lose to mediocities.
More to follow. .

[valpotx]

We didn't play Georgia State, we played Georgia Southern

[swiftmutiny]

Valpo moves up to 16th in the latest College Insider Mid-Major Top 25: http://www.collegeinsider.com/new/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

[agibson]

To dump the rest of the list (CI doesn't obviously archive them):

No change in the top 8.  9-14 rotate a little bit.  More significant changes below that.  Including our move up to #16.  I guess the voters like wins, even against relatively weak opponents?

I'm a little amazed that some of these teams (South Dakota State?  Lehigh?) are still so high. 

Detroit didn't get a single vote.

Update: November 26th, 2012

1.    Creighton (26)    6-0    768    1    Missouri Valley
2.    Gonzaga (5)    6-0    750    2    West Coast
3.    Ohio    5-0    690    3    Mid-American
4.    Murray State    4-1    639    4    Ohio Valley
5.    Belmont    5-1    591    5    Ohio Valley
6.    Illinois State    5-1    552    6    Missouri Valley
7.    Bucknell    5-1    541    7    Patriot
8.    Lehigh    4-2    532    8    Patriot
9.    Wichita State    6-0    479    11    Missouri Valley
10.    Middle Tennessee    4-1    458    11    Sun Belt
11.    BYU    4-2    444    13    West Coast
12.    Saint Mary's    4-2    408    10    West Coast
13.    South Dakota State    4-2    353    14    Summit
14.    Northern Iowa    3-3    351    9    Missouri Valley
15.    Davidson    3-3    334    16    Southern
16.    Valparaiso    5-1    326    22    Horizon
17.    Akron    3-2    293    18    Mid-American
18.    Utah State    3-1    213    20    WAC
19.    Mercer    3-3    187    19    Atlantic Sun
20.    Drexel    2-4    132    15    Colonial
21.    Loyola MD    5-1    116    NR    Metro Atlantic
22.    North Texas    3-3    109    21    Sun Belt
23.    Cal State Northridge    6-1    107    23    Big West
24.    Santa Clara    5-0    84    NR    West Coast
25.    Pacific    3-3    56    NR    Big West

OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Hawaii 55, Kent State 51, George Mason 43, Wright State 39, Stephen F. Austin 36, Eastern Kentucky 32, Bradley 27, Iona 27, Cal Poly 25, Southern Illinois 23, Louisiana Tech 22, North Dakota State 22, South Alabama 20, Long Beach State 15, Albany 14, Cleveland State 13, College of Charleston 13, Western Michigan 12, Montana 10, Oral Roberts 10, Fairfield 9, Harvard 9, Saint Peter's 8, Arkansas State 7, Northeastern 5, Niagara 4, Columbia 3, Vermont 2, Youngstown State 2, Bryant 1, Elon 1, Stony Brook 1, UT-Arlington 1.

[agibson]

A few other tidbits.

New Mexico enters the overall ratings at 25/23, based on their win over Connecticut.  UNM's at RPI 5.

Butler's picking up votes again.  (RPI 6 )

Of course, RPI's are still rapidly fluctuating.  At the moment UIC (86) is ahead of us (103). 

And here's an oddity.  BBstate.com currently has UIC ranked 10th among small conference schools, 38th overall?  Not sure where that came from. Valpo's at 24/78.

[valporun]

I think the only reason why Lehigh and South Dakota State are still so high is because they were their conference's champion for the NCAA bid. If it weren't for that, not sure that either team would be in the teens of this poll.

[agibson]

Of course, RPI's are still rapidly fluctuating.  At the moment UIC (86) is ahead of us (103). 

On the strength of (now 6-1) UIC's win at Northwestern they're up to 55th in RPI.  Without playing any additional games, (5-1) Valpo's down to 147 (still good for second in the Horizon League...).

[agibson]

New Mexico enters the overall ratings at 25/23, based on their win over Connecticut.  UNM's at RPI 5.

Butler's picking up votes again.  (RPI 6 )

Of course, RPI's are still rapidly fluctuating.  At the moment UIC (86) is ahead of us (103). 

And here's an oddity.  BBstate.com currently has UIC ranked 10th among small conference schools, 38th overall?  Not sure where that came from. Valpo's at 24/78.

UNM's now 8-0, 18/20 in the polls and RPI #3.  Butler's RPI #8 and receiving votes in both polls.  Murray State's RPI #27 and receiving votes in both polls.

UIC's now RPI #33.    Pomeroy still has them well down in the Horizon League pack.  Whelliston's BBState.com has UIC _6th_ among small conference schools (including the A10) and _26th_ overall.  That seems a bit much, but then again I've been saying that for a while and UIC's been winning games.

Valpo's down at RPI #161, behind Cleveland State at #146.  Valpo's down to 43/112 on BBstate.com.

Can UIC crack the mid-major poll?  They should definitely at least receive votes this week.  I guess I'll be surprised, but not shocked, if they make the top-25.  They might well deserve to (I still wonder exactly what BBState sees...).  And, if they keep winning, the'll obviously make it in.  A win over Colorado State on Saturday should do it for sure.

Will Valpo fall?  I expect we'll stay in the top 25.  Maybe hold approximately static.  Maybe fall a few places.

[agibson]

Well, color me surprised.  The voters are more fungible than I thought.  UIC's in at #23.  From not receiving votes last week.

Feels a little bad to slip below Akron, but we'll have to earn our way back up.

Update: December 3rd, 2012

1.    Gonzaga (30)    8-0    774    2    West Coast
2.    Wichita State    8-0    728    9    Missouri Valley
3.    Creighton (1)    7-1    685    1    Missouri Valley
4.    Murray State    5-1    671    4    Ohio Valley
5.    Ohio    6-1    651    3    Mid-American
6.    Illinois State    5-1    593    6    Missouri Valley
7.    Bucknell    7-1    571    7    Patriot
8.    Lehigh    6-2    525    8    Patriot
9.    Belmont    5-2    508    5    Ohio Valley
10.    Saint Mary's    5-2    458    12    West Coast
11.    Middle Tennessee    5-2    436    10    Sun Belt
12.    South Dakota State    6-2    407    13    Summit
13.    BYU    5-3    396    11    West Coast
14.    Northern Iowa    4-3    363    14    Missouri Valley
15.    Davidson    4-3    318    15    Southern
16.    Arkon [sic]   4-2    286    17    Mid-American
17.    Utah State    4-1    255    18    Big West
18.    Valparaiso    5-2    232    16    Horizon
19.    Louisiana Tech    7-1    169    NR    WAC
20.    College of Charleston    5-2    135    NR    Southern
21.    Loyola MD    7-2    130    21    Metro Atlantic
22.    UIC    6-1    107    NR    Horizon
23.    Eastern Kentucky    7-0    86    NR    Ohio Valley
24.    Cal State Northridge    6-2    71    23    Big West
25.    Albany    6-2    61    NR    America East


OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Cleveland State 46, Florida Gulf Coast 44, Stephen F. Austin 43, Mercer 38, George Mason 34, Santa Clara 25, Western Kentucky 22, Western Michigan 22, North Dakota State 21, Indiana State 20, Pacific 17, North Texas 14, Oral Roberts 14, Southern Illinois 14, Bradley 11, Kent State 11, San Fransisco 11, Jacksonville State 10, Hawaii 8, Iona 7, Wright State 6, Drexel 5, Loyola Chicago 5, Radford 3, Vermont 3, Bryant 2, Eastern Michigan 2, Sacramento State 1, Stony Brook 1.

[valpopal]

Valpo is #20 in the new Mid-Major poll. This week last year, Valpo was #22 in the same poll, and that was before three of the bad December losses.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

[agibson]

To amplify that a little bit.

Update: December 10th, 2012

1.    Wichita State (24)    9-0    737    2    Missouri Valley
2.    Creighton (1)    9-1    732    3    Missouri Valley
3.    Gonzaga (6)    9-1    727    1    West Coast
4.    Murray State    7-1    670    4    Ohio Valley
5.    Bucknell    8-1    634    7    Patriot
6.    Lehigh    8-2    554    8    Patriot
7.    Ohio    7-2    539    5    Mid-American
8.    Belmont    6-2    517    9    Ohio Valley
9.    Saint Mary's    6-2    510    10    West Coast
10.    Illinois State    6-3    475    6    Missouri Valley
11.    Middle Tennessee    7-2    465    11    Sun Belt
12.    Northern Iowa    6-3    397    14    Missouri Valley
13.    BYU    6-3    378    13    West Coast
14.    South Dakota State    8-3    330    12    Summit
15.    Utah State    5-1    308    17    WAC
16.    UIC    8-1    296    22    Horizon
17.    Davidson    5-4    288    15    Southern
18.    Eastern Kentucky    9-0    244    23    Ohio Valley
19.    Akron    4-3    211    16    Mid-American
20.    Valparaiso    6-3    164    18    Horizon
21.    Louisiana Tech    8-2    132    19    WAC
22.    Albany    8-2    120    25    America East
23.    Loyola MD    8-3    93    21    Metro Atlantic
24.    Western Kentucky    8-2    66    NR    Sun Belt
25.    North Dakota State    8-2    52    NR    Summit

OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Stephen F Austin 49, College of Charleston 45, Florida Gulf Coast 44, Oral Roberts 36, Cal State Northridge 30, Wright State 25, Indiana State 22, Bradley 21, Eastern Michigan 20, Long Beach State 15, Jacksonville State 12, North Texas 12, Weber State 12, Stony Brook 10, Pacific 9, UNC Ashville 9, Montana 8, Detorit 7, Loyola Chicago 7, Santa Clara 7, Western Illinois 6, Cleveland State 5, San Fransisco 5, Elon 4, Evansville 4, Western Michigan 4, George Mason 3, Canisius 2, Robert Morris 2, Bryant 1, Northwestern State 1.

[vuweathernerd]

6 of the 9 teams in the conference are at least getting votes. that's got to say something about the conference as a whole, despite some of those losses that have led to the 'the sky is falling' mentality of a few people around here...

[atkins]

6 of the 9 teams in the conference are at least getting votes. that's got to say something about the conference as a whole, despite some of those losses that have led to the 'the sky is falling' mentality of a few people around here...

I've never been a fan of rankings, and I don't think the sky is falling, but we are a decent-but-not-elite mid-major team so far this year.  If we were to play a schedule of power conference teams, or even teams in a mid-power conference such as the A-10, we would lose 90 percent of the games.  Fortunately, we play in a low-power conference. 

[justducky]

If we were to play a schedule of power conference teams, or even teams in a mid-power conference such as the A-10, we would lose 90 percent of the games.  Fortunately, we play in a low-power conference. 

If we were an A-10 member this year we would be top half with a winning record (if fully healthy) minimum. I will let others debate our placement in the real power conferences.

[wh]

If we were to play a schedule of power conference teams, or even teams in a mid-power conference such as the A-10, we would lose 90 percent of the games.  Fortunately, we play in a low-power conference. 

If we were an A-10 member this year we would be top half with a winning record (if fully healthy) minimum. I will let others debate our placement in the real power conferences.

I'm as frustrated as the next guy with our performances in the 3 losses.  That said, I am confident that this team WILL put the pieces together and be better than last year.  Later in the month I'll start a prediction poll for our conference record, but I'll say right now that my personal prediction will be to improve on last year's 14-4.

[milanmiracle]

If we were to play a schedule of power conference teams, or even teams in a mid-power conference such as the A-10, we would lose 90 percent of the games.  Fortunately, we play in a low-power conference. 

If we were an A-10 member this year we would be top half with a winning record (if fully healthy) minimum. I will let others debate our placement in the real power conferences.

And what would you base that on? You do realize that Valpo has exactly one win over the RPR top 200 (#153)? Right now the A10 has 3 teams with an RPI below 153. That means the other 13 would be the best wins on Valpo's resume.

As for the power conference...Valpo can't beat anybody in a power conference (see Nebraska), so I can't see them finishing in anything but the bottom of a BCS conference. Of course that would change if they were actually IN a power conference, as they'd get used to playing those teams.

That doesn't mean I don't want them to step up to that level, but the results so far say it's unlikely.

[justducky]

And what would you base that on? You do realize that Valpo has exactly one win over the RPR top 200 (#153)? Right now the A10 has 3 teams with an RPI below 153. That means the other 13 would be the best wins on Valpo's resume.

Ok Milan, because I  knew that you would likely respond and I might have even baited you into it; I will not now complain about wasting my time telling you things that you already know. So lets start this by agreeing to throw all that early season RPI crap out of our mutual window because it has no meaning. We can start treating RPI with a little respect about early to mid February. In fact there are today several A-10 schools that I would argue could rise significantly between now and then, but many others should  be far lower. So what is your arguement, that since we have lost on the road to two teams we should have lost to, blew another opportunity because we were short 2 1/2 people (Neb and Buggs injury) and other than that haven't played anybody thusly we are a crap team?

My take is that at full strength we would match up favorably or competitively against all of the A10 at the ARC and against almost all of them on the road. We bring back a successful veteran team to which key additions have been made, and it should be a team that is hungry for greater things. Good returning teams that make solid additions rarely regress and usually take big steps forward. When such a team does stall or fall (barring injury) it is most often a problem of confidence, coaching, or the coaching of confidence. Bryce has a big job on his hands in the next few weeks to make sure that this gets turned around now, or else the confidence thing could turn into a tailspin death spiral with predictable results. I do not expect this to happen but if it does then I think those of you who are worried about Bryce being snatched away to a big time job may have much, much less to worry about.

Milan, I have never tried that personal message feature to see if  it works, but maybe we could set up a little half time recreational, air clearing, barking match in an attempt to find out why we so frequently disagree. Anyway if you are interested lets see what we can do. I should be at the ARC for most of the remaining big games and a few that are not so big. Hey, this isn't an attempt to flush me out without camouflage is it?

[historyman]

Good returning teams that make solid additions rarely regress and usually take big steps forward. When such a team does stall or fall (barring injury) it is most often a problem of confidence, coaching, or the coaching of confidence. Bryce has a big job on his hands in the next few weeks to make sure that this gets turned around now, or else the confidence thing could turn into a tailspin death spiral with predictable results. I do not expect this to happen

When this Valpo team mentioned above does actually show up for a game you will let me know, okay? I have not seen them play yet. What I have seen is a team that has way too many turnovers, has games where nobody shows up to score except Broekhoff and gets behind way too far against quality competition. Screw the "we're not at full strength yet" crap. Every team in the NCAA is dealing with injuries, sickness and the like. This is what is so frustrating for VU fans this year. We know this team has much more potential but just doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to bring it out of themselves.