ok, what now?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Again:  we have no proof MLB said this.

What we have is an indirect quote in an article which otherwise does not mention MLB at all and in which all the direct quotes are from Carlson:

Playing from behind is not recommended for a coach seeking a long shelf life, but athletic director Mark LaBarbera believes the Crusaders are headed in the right direction against a schedule which no longer welcomes Division III pushovers.

A reverential reading of this statement, for FW's sake:  If this is in fact even any sort of accurate presentation of MLB's beliefs--(and anyone that knows John Mutka should ask him whence this sentence came)--MLB believes we're headed in the right direction simply because it can't really get any worse.  I.e. once you're on the ground, or in our case, the Death Star's trash compactor, things can only get better.

[crusaderjoe]

Lets see how many players actually return for the spring semester. If they are going to leave, now is the time to find a new home. As far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.

Bingo.

On the issue of Carlson staying or going in 2012 based solely on wins and losses, end of thread.

**FIN**

[usc4valpo]

Cripe, I did not read this thoroughly. My bad.  Perhaps MLB's response was not what was first intented.  Perhaps the writer has it all wrong.  Perhaps this conversation is not FINed.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

As far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.

I would agree with that, although there's still a couple weeks leeway there, even at our level, for recruiting's sake, this is the time to do it.

Perhaps this is what Mutka takes as a tacit approval by MLB of the way things are going?

[laura]

I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................

[bbtds]

I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................

This reminds me of the song and dance the Dance Hall Girl played by Madeline Kahn did in "Blazing Saddles."



I'm tired
Sick and tired of love
I've had my fill of love
from below and above
Tired
Tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let's face it
I'm tired!

Tired
tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame?
I'm so tired...
Goddammit, I'm tired!

I'm tired
Tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame
I'm so tired...

[Prussian soldier chorus led by Mel Brooks]
she's tired
-she's tired
sick and tired of love
-give her a break
she's had her fill of love
-she's not a snake
from below and above
-can't you see she's sick?
tired
-she's bushed
tired of being admired
-let her alone
tired of love uninspired
-get off the phone
she's tired
-don't you know she's pooped?

Tired
tired of playing the game
ain't it a friggin shame
I'm so...
Let's face it
Everything below the waist...is kaput!
Tirrrred!

[VULB#62]

I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................

Laura, you've got that wrong.  Dead wrong. The members of this board who have been posting to this string have not derided the kids. If anything, they wonder how can the program wallow for three years in the face of improving talent.  Expressed concerns over inconsistent play, bone-head plays and in-game mistakes have been squarely laid at the feet of the coaching staff for their lack of preparation, the systems that have been employed and inability to bring the best out of the the talent they have recruited.

[valpotx]

I do have to say that our defense was not good, though I am sure they are good kids.  How many passing plays of 30+ or 40+ yards did we give up this year, and how many runs of 40/50+ yards??  Our defense in particular was just so much slower physically than our opponents.  You can try to blame it on the plays called, but some of the routes they ran were just straight up the field burning our secondary, or running it right up the middle to watch the Red Sea part...

[vu72]

I guess she might be referencing a few things I have said.  I certainly agree that much can be laid at the feet of the coaching staff, but still, the coaches don't drop passes, make bad throws, miss tackles or miss extra points.

The talent isn't quite there yet but the overall coaching mistakes overwhelm the playing errors.

[VULB#62]

TX and 72, I have to add that a lot (not all - e.g., PATs) of what you refer to can still be laid at the feet of the staff.  Without going into minutia, coaching and well structured practice using, for instance in the case of defense, well-drilled coverages can make a big difference.  Disciplined line play closes holes.  Tape study and good, detailed scouting reports with tendencies and frequencies, shared with players and drilled repetitively are coaching responsibilities. In-game adjustments are coaching responsibilities.  One observation as an example: Our LBs were not coached to take away simple delay crossing routes underneath (that's FB 101). Watching all the streamed games, I saw them consistently dropping 12-15 yards deep into no-man's-land -- that's all about coaching.  TX, you'd go ballistic if you saw Valpo OFs consistently missing the cut-off man, game after game, and you'd point your finger at the coach, wouldn't you? Winning teams drop passes and overthrow receivers too, but we remember most of ours, because they contributed to 31 freakin losses.  A number of sacks that we suffered were in part because the QB hasn't been drilled enough in quick reads and throwing the ball away.  Could we use better talent?  Of course, what program wouldn't? But have our kids' talents been optimized? Far from it.  These kids, as a whole, may not be championship caliber players, but they are not as bad as their record says they are (despite what Parcells said) and given better coaching would be a helluva lot more competitive.

As an aside to this, I'm thinking (with no real basis other than speculation derived from a number of observed-from-afar FB program dynamics) and I could be 180 degrees off, that there might be a lot of talking about what to do during practice but little drilling, over and over, in what to do.  Just a hunch.  But I think, those of us who played or coached at a high level, we'd all agree, you play like you practice. Our problem on the forum, is that we can't see what the Wizard is doing behind the curtain. We don't watch practices.  We don't attend team meetings.  We're not on the sideline or in the press box. So we can only speculate based on the final product that we see on Saturday afternoons.  I feel bad about that -- the speculating, that is.   

[usc4valpo]

As far as the coach is concerned, if he wasn't 86'd by now, he will be the coach again next year.

I would agree with that, although there's still a couple weeks leeway there, even at our level, for recruiting's sake, this is the time to do it. Perhaps this is what Mutka takes as a tacit approval by MLB of the way things are going?

I have to wonder the brilliance of Mutka in his journalistic skills.  Who knows?

[crusadermoe]

In Missouri Gary Pinkel is under fire for missing a bowl game for the first time in the last 8 seasons.     All of the SEC teams below Mo. fired their coaches. 
We are not an FCS school and football doesn't bring in any bucks directly.   .    But we send a message to potential recruits anyway when 3 years of this aren't addressed. 

[bbtds]

In Missouri Gary Pinkel is under fire for missing a bowl game for the first time in the last 8 seasons.     All of the SEC teams below Mo. fired their coaches. 
We are not an FCS school and football doesn't bring in any bucks directly.   .    But we send a message to potential recruits anyway when 3 years of this aren't addressed. 

Pinkel was also the guy who spoke up for Coach Paterno during the tragedy at Penn State. He said anyone who coached that long and had a positive influence on so many many students shouldn't be denounced just because he helped protect a pedophile for 10 years.

Pinkel missed that one completely.

[valpotx]

Kind of rough to fire Pinkel for his record in their first year of SEC play though.  They were ok in the Big 12, with one or two good years in which they were highly overrated in my opinion (playing in the easier part of the Big 12 at the time, the North), but they are highly overmatched in the SEC at the moment.  Fire him for his dumb Paterno comment, not for being forced into a better football conference that they are not ready to compete in by any stretch of the imagination...

[covufan]

I'm new and I'm tired...I'm tired of the pitiful coach who leads this schools team ...I'm tired of the athletic director doing NOTHING to address this horrible situation...I'm tired of the school administration not holding anyone accountable...I'm tired of the attacks on the abilities of our football players by members on this board...I'm tired of a rolodex roster and coaching stafff...I'm tired of unimanaged game plans(Were not above a trick play now and then)...I'm tired that nothing will change for the fourth year in a row...I'm tired.................

This reminds me of the song and dance the Dance Hall Girl played by Madeline Kahn did in "Blazing Saddles."



I'm tired
Sick and tired of love
I've had my fill of love
from below and above
Tired
Tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let's face it
I'm tired!

Tired
tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame?
I'm so tired...
Goddammit, I'm tired!

I'm tired
Tired of playing the game
Ain't it a crying shame
I'm so tired...

[Prussian soldier chorus led by Mel Brooks]
she's tired
-she's tired
sick and tired of love
-give her a break
she's had her fill of love
-she's not a snake
from below and above
-can't you see she's sick?
tired
-she's bushed
tired of being admired
-let her alone
tired of love uninspired
-get off the phone
she's tired
-don't you know she's pooped?

Tired
tired of playing the game
ain't it a friggin shame
I'm so...
Let's face it
Everything below the waist...is kaput!
Tirrrred!

I can hear her voice as I read this!!! 

[covufan]

I do have to say that our defense was not good, though I am sure they are good kids.  How many passing plays of 30+ or 40+ yards did we give up this year, and how many runs of 40/50+ yards??  Our defense in particular was just so much slower physically than our opponents.  You can try to blame it on the plays called, but some of the routes they ran were just straight up the field burning our secondary, or running it right up the middle to watch the Red Sea part...

We gave up 22 scoring plays from scrimage of more than 20 yards (Red Zone).  We only scored on 7 such plays.  We also gave up 6 return TDs (KR, INT, Fumble) and only had 2 such scores.  A defender being in the proper position, but not having the speed to catch someone is recruiting.  Our defense being out of position is coaching, in my book at least. 

[vuweathernerd]

Kind of rough to fire Pinkel for his record in their first year of SEC play though.  They were ok in the Big 12, with one or two good years in which they were highly overrated in my opinion (playing in the easier part of the Big 12 at the time, the North), but they are highly overmatched in the SEC at the moment.  Fire him for his dumb Paterno comment, not for being forced into a better football conference that they are not ready to compete in by any stretch of the imagination...

ok in the big 12? he single-handedly turned the program into a perennial top 4 program in the big 12. i'd call that more than just 'ok.' i read something somewhere that every coach in the mizzou athletics dept came out against the move to the sec, and yet it happened anyway. with a couple of years (and a desperately needed new quarterback, mizzou can be a mid-level sec team. hell, they even nearly knocked off a couple top 5 schools in their first year.

[FloridaFootball]

Campbell hires Mike Minter, former Carolina Panther! They will be a tougher team to beat next year.

[vu72]

either Amundson or Horne were former members of the Packers.  No reason to expect great success.

[valpotx]

Kind of rough to fire Pinkel for his record in their first year of SEC play though.  They were ok in the Big 12, with one or two good years in which they were highly overrated in my opinion (playing in the easier part of the Big 12 at the time, the North), but they are highly overmatched in the SEC at the moment.  Fire him for his dumb Paterno comment, not for being forced into a better football conference that they are not ready to compete in by any stretch of the imagination...

ok in the big 12? he single-handedly turned the program into a perennial top 4 program in the big 12. i'd call that more than just 'ok.' i read something somewhere that every coach in the mizzou athletics dept came out against the move to the sec, and yet it happened anyway. with a couple of years (and a desperately needed new quarterback, mizzou can be a mid-level sec team. hell, they even nearly knocked off a couple top 5 schools in their first year.

I wouldn't call 3 dougle digit win seasons in the last 12 years a perennial top 4 program.  Yes, they were top 4 in the North, but were mainly a pushover against the top Big 12 teams, outside of the seasons at 12-2 and 10-3.  Click on the years associated with their records in the below link, and you will see them routinely spanked by 20+ by the true top Big 12 programs.  You can't make a statement that they were a top 4 program based on 2-3 years.  Yes, they improved quite a bit versus what they used to be before Pinkel and his first few years as well, but not upper echelon.  It was actually an upgrade to get TCU and WVU over Missouri and A&M in football.  A&M surprised the crap out of people this year, but had been down for many years until Johnny Football this year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Tigers_football

[bbtds]

dougle

What's that? When you have to google something twice because you can't remember what you read the first time? 

[VULB#62]

Campbell hires Mike Minter, former Carolina Panther! They will be a tougher team to beat next year.

either Amundson or Horne were former members of the Packers.  No reason to expect great success.

Amundsen's 10 year record was 47-46-3 including two ICC championships, a second place, and never finished in the basement and had a lot of finishes in the middle of the pack. Gotta say VU was, on average, competitive under Amundsen.  Amundsen's record matches the stated aims of MLB -- consistently competitive with an occasional run at the PFL championship.

But to underscore the point, John Hannah, Hall of Fame OG for the New England Patriots, tried coaching Chelsea HS in Boston after he retired.  He went 0-10 and quit after one season. Not all good players make good coaches.  But Minter does bring some coaching experience to the position. In reading the release, I was interested to see, however, that he did not have a top assistant role at Liberty under Turner Gill. His recruiting territory, however, included NC and SC -- right in Campbell's neighborhood.

Having said that, Minter's known for his toughness and intensity.  If that rubs off on his team, then yes, they will be tougher to beat, just because.

[valpotx]

I didn't know that Amundsen played in the NFL.  I had a class with him in 2001 or 2002 that I believe was of the weightlifting variety to get my PE or physical credit (since baseball or other athletics didn't count for some reason...).  All I knew about him and Koch was that they were former football coaches still around in some capacity.

[bbtds]

Norm Amundsen

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Norman "Norm" Robert Amundsen (born September 28, 1932, in Chicago, Illinois) was a guard for the Green Bay Packers.[1]

Career

Amundsen was drafted by the Green Bay Packers in the sixth round of the 1955 NFL Draft and later played with the team during the 1957 NFL season. He played at the collegiate level at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.[2]

I didn't realize Amundsen was a Packer either.

The only thing you need to know about Bill Koch is that he went to Bogan HS in Chicago. That says it all, according to Bill.

Ahhh, the good ole days

1950 Valpo Football Team

Football (1950)
Undefeated in regular season play, the 1950 football team is the only Valparaiso University football team to ever play in a postseason bowl game.

The Crusaders met Wisconsin-LaCrosse in the Cigar Bowl played in Tampa, Fla.

The players on that team included:  Arol Amling, Norm Arnold, Dick Boeck, John Buchheimer, Arch Dean, Tom Fenske, Gene Gobreski, Robert Goers, Joe Griffith, Bob Grobengieser, Gene Holtrey, Jerry Karstens, Bob Kerns, Harry Knox, Bill Koch, Ken Lambros, Lenny Latz, Red Mack, Tom Marshall, Hank Meier, John Minot,Neil Montour, Joe Pahr, Haig Paravonian, Eli Rapaich, Wil Rothman, Royce Roweder, Dick Schalon, L.V.Schroeder, Denny Tuomi, Ken Wessel, Carl Woodward, and Bill Wrege.

The trainer of the team was Bill Buehler and the managers included Bill Schudlich and Ed Buhrow.  The coaches were Emory G. Bauer, Walt Reiner, and Guy Wellman

[usc4valpo]

Koch was a fine gentleman but not a good coach. He was a defensive minded coach, which was evident because he never knew how to call plays during his tenure. The 1981 team he had, where they scored 44 points and did not score a TD until the 5th game of the season, was a classic.