FB Season Finale vs. Morehead

[usc4valpo]

Wow, a differential of 31 points per game over 3 years!  What improvement!

But the good news is that we have moved from #246 to #245 in the Sagarin ratings in three years.  We did not get the 3 peat of futility!

[setshot]

if Carlson can't do it,no body can! So, drop football!!!!

[crusadermoe]

The Adams 3 seasons vs. Carlson's 3 seasons speaks for itself.   
Nothing more to say.

[vuweathernerd]

The Adams 3 seasons vs. Carlson's 3 seasons speaks for itself.   
Nothing more to say.

under adams we got worse. under carlson, we simply haven't improved.

[laura]

Carlson is in over his head. Last 2 weeks trick plays have been used successfully. Why don't we ever try them? Anything is better than his "20 Bubble Screens " per game. Give these players a chance. How about hiring someone young? This fossil can't adjust, can't adapt, can't improvise and most importantly CAN NOT LEAD!!!!

[vu72]

I'm watching a very interesting piece on college football, on 60 minutes, at this very minute.

They interviewed the Michigan AD and Towson University's AD.  Towson played at LSU and we're billed at the "sacrificial lamb" but only lost 38-25 or some such number.  In the process they earned a $500,000 pay day.

The Michigan AD did say he worried about the kids and all the pressure, but probably not too much as football is such an enormous money maker for them!

Here's what I found particularly interesting:  His development people have found that alumni giving is highest in the fall, in conjunction with football season, and that other school's see the same result.  He then said that that is why school's who have dropped football are bringing it back!

I fully understand that he is talking about BIG time football, but I wonder how those statistics play out at Valpo. Clearly, getting our collective a--es kicked week in and week out, can't possibly help donations, unless it is sympathy for the program.  In fact I gave a small donation to the football program after receiving a letter asking for same from the Asst head coach, after the first couple of games. Thinking back on that letter, it said in part that other schools were starting to notice our recruiting successes and this was in part due to gifts made to the football program. So if the recruiting is going so well at some point the coaches have to admit total ineptitude and hopefully that will be soon.

[usc4valpo]

Laura, do you want someone young?  How about Lane Kiffin, he is doing a wonderful job at USC 

Also, please note there are some pretty smart fossils out there.

[laura]

I'm a fossil myself ....I'm just so frustrated at the terrible three year span the school and the players have gone through. All the cliches, all the blaming the players by Carlson, All the excuses. This is still a college experience for these players and to just say lets try for another 2 years because thats the contract. Unacceptable! This hurts Everyone. It has to stop.

[usc4valpo]

I'm a fossil myself ....I'm just so frustrated at the terrible three year span the school and the players have gone through. All the cliches, all the blaming the players by Carlson, All the excuses. This is still a college experience for these players and to just say lets try for another 2 years because thats the contract. Unacceptable! This hurts Everyone. It has to stop.

As a fellow fossil, I totally agree with you.  There may be some bad eggs out there, but these kids have perservered through a lot of crap.  The bleeding must stop and does next provide quality to Valpo.  The papers say he is a decent coach, but again it may be a square peg in a round hole.

[VULB#62]

The Adams 3 seasons vs. Carlson's 3 seasons speaks for itself.   
Nothing more to say.

under adams we got worse. under carlson, we simply haven't improved.

Disagree.  Under Adams we got worse; under Carlson we definitely got worser (if that's a word).  Carlson's heralded "O" has final broken the 200 point barrier; however, in Adam's last three years, 2 out of three seasons equalled or surpassed the 202 points scored in 2012.  But it's on the "D" side that we see embarrassing decline since 2009 -- in three seasons since 2009 opponents have scored a whopping 1028 more points than us. While Adam's margins got progressively worse in his last three years, Carlson's PA have gone from 514 allowed, down to 417 allowed, and back up to 497 this year.  Adams teams' PA were 321, 336 and 344.  The PA bar was lowered in a quantum leap downward (170 points) in 2010 and has remained at that disturbing level the whole three years -- that is not "simply haven't improved."

[VULB#62]

I'm a fossil myself ....I'm just so frustrated at the terrible three year span the school and the players have gone through. All the cliches, all the blaming the players by Carlson, All the excuses. This is still a college experience for these players and to just say lets try for another 2 years because thats the contract. Unacceptable! This hurts Everyone. It has to stop.

Laura brings up a good point.  I may be wrong (being a fossil too), but I can't remember a time when the HFC or the staff took one for the team i.e., owned up to poor play selection, confusion on the sideline, abandoning the run game when it was effective, etc.  It was always: "we" didn't get it done, "we" didn't execute, "we" were inconsistent.  All those "we's" point to the players.  As I recalled a conversation with the HFC in another post, at the close of the 2010 season, the blame was laid squarely on the lousy attitude and lack of talent he inherited.  Subsequently two more classes have been recruited and each time the talent was described as greatly improved over the previous class, yet come game time: "we" still didn't get it done, "we" still didn't execute, "we" still were inconsistent.

[vuweathernerd]

The Adams 3 seasons vs. Carlson's 3 seasons speaks for itself.   
Nothing more to say.

under adams we got worse. under carlson, we simply haven't improved.

Disagree.  Under Adams we got worse; under Carlson we definitely got worser (if that's a word).  Carlson's heralded "O" has final broken the 200 point barrier; however, in Adam's last three years, 2 out of three seasons equalled or surpassed the 202 points scored in 2012.  But it's on the "D" side that we see embarrassing decline since 2009 -- in three seasons since 2009 opponents have scored a whopping 1028 more points than us. While Adam's margins got progressively worse in his last three years, Carlson's PA have gone from 514 allowed, down to 417 allowed, and back up to 497 this year.  Adams teams' PA were 321, 336 and 344.  The PA bar was lowered in a quantum leap downward (170 points) in 2010 and has remained at that disturbing level the whole three years -- that is not "simply haven't improved."

my statement was based on wins and losses alone. no other numbers. because that is the ultimate mark. points for and points allowed are relative. if you only score 180 points for the year and allow 117 but go 8-3, whoop de doo. it's the same result as if you score 500 points and give up 450 for the year but still go 8-3.

[VULB#62]

I see what you mean.  And when you only win 1 game in two out of three years, that is "not improving" because you can't really get any worse.   

But it's not only the W-L record; it really is how you won or how you lost.  I doubt that the clamor we're reading on the two FB strings would even exist if the 10 losses were only by 14 or 21 points or less, and a few more that came down to the wire.  Unfortunately, only three qualify this year (St.Joe's, Davidson, and Drake)  The remaining 7 losses were not even close and some were embarrassing blow-outs.

[vuweathernerd]

tennessee fired dooley for exactly the same sort of reasons. sure, maybe he improved stuff off the field, but he had three straight losing seasons, never beat a top 25 team, and struggled to win conference games.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8648445/derek-dooley-tennessee-volunteers-return-another-season

[valporun]

nerd, you're talking SEC football vs. PFL football. The SEC is all about fanbase, getting butts in the seats, and getting all the tv revenue they can. Derek Dooley wasn't winning games, so CBS and ESPN were avoiding them. Valpo is losing PFL games due to a collective attitude that hasn't been what it should be to win games. You can fault the players for not buying in, you can fault the coaches for a bad philosophy/attitude about winning/losing, and the fan base isn't buying in because they can't get past the smoke and mirrors of excuses that don't change.

Knowing the Valpo athletic history of changing coaches, they'll ride Carlson's contract, then let him go. When VU football has scholarships and alumni donations for football being at the level that keeping an eye on the coaching and wins and losses is integral to keep the money coming in, then they'll focus on contracts and when is the right time to buyout, or not give so many years.

Don't forget, Valpo football is a rebuilding project, not a first-time program that was launched when Coach Carlson was hired. Sure, after three years, we can't go with "Rome wasn't built in a day", but do we really want VU football to be the next kind of Florida/Miami Marlins's 'Fire sale', where coaches don't want to apply here because they won't get to supplant their foot in the program long enough to feel good about what they are doing?

[vuweathernerd]

nerd, you're talking SEC football vs. PFL football. The SEC is all about fanbase, getting butts in the seats, and getting all the tv revenue they can. Derek Dooley wasn't winning games, so CBS and ESPN were avoiding them. Valpo is losing PFL games due to a collective attitude that hasn't been what it should be to win games. You can fault the players for not buying in, you can fault the coaches for a bad philosophy/attitude about winning/losing, and the fan base isn't buying in because they can't get past the smoke and mirrors of excuses that don't change.

Knowing the Valpo athletic history of changing coaches, they'll ride Carlson's contract, then let him go. When VU football has scholarships and alumni donations for football being at the level that keeping an eye on the coaching and wins and losses is integral to keep the money coming in, then they'll focus on contracts and when is the right time to buyout, or not give so many years.

Don't forget, Valpo football is a rebuilding project, not a first-time program that was launched when Coach Carlson was hired. Sure, after three years, we can't go with "Rome wasn't built in a day", but do we really want VU football to be the next kind of Florida/Miami Marlins's 'Fire sale', where coaches don't want to apply here because they won't get to supplant their foot in the program long enough to feel good about what they are doing?

run, my point remains the same though. the vols weren't winning. because of that, all those other things happened and dooley got the axe. but it all comes back to winning. in that regard, conference affiliation is meaningless.

and i do wonder how things might change if carlson can hold onto a good group of kids and start progressing them through and retain them as upperclassmen. while his results have been horrible, and in-game issues have seemingly been poorly managed, he's only just now getting mostly his kids through. if most of them are sticking around and progressing through school, then perhaps in another year or two, we might have the success that some thought would have been instantaneous. but if they're leaving for other schools or quitting football as a whole before their time is up, and that's a prolonged issue, then it may well be time to look in another direction.

[usc4valpo]

nerd, you're talking SEC football vs. PFL football. The SEC is all about fanbase, getting butts in the seats, and getting all the tv revenue they can. Derek Dooley wasn't winning games, so CBS and ESPN were avoiding them. Valpo is losing PFL games due to a collective attitude that hasn't been what it should be to win games. You can fault the players for not buying in, you can fault the coaches for a bad philosophy/attitude about winning/losing, and the fan base isn't buying in because they can't get past the smoke and mirrors of excuses that don't change. Knowing the Valpo athletic history of changing coaches, they'll ride Carlson's contract, then let him go. When VU football has scholarships and alumni donations for football being at the level that keeping an eye on the coaching and wins and losses is integral to keep the money coming in, then they'll focus on contracts and when is the right time to buyout, or not give so many years. Don't forget, Valpo football is a rebuilding project, not a first-time program that was launched when Coach Carlson was hired. Sure, after three years, we can't go with "Rome wasn't built in a day", but do we really want VU football to be the next kind of Florida/Miami Marlins's 'Fire sale', where coaches don't want to apply here because they won't get to supplant their foot in the program long enough to feel good about what they are doing?

Run, the problem is the university's policy of retaining coaches.  They may hold on this 2-31 mastermind for 2 more years, but it does not make the policy right.  I agree with having patience, but 3 years with no progress is unacceptable, especially when you are in a situation where you are so bad that you can only go up.  Heck, with that kind of policy, you might as well give him tenure.

[valporun]

We're not going to see his contract changed because we're not the attention-getting, revenue-generating program that Tennessee is for the SEC. We're just a small program meant to generate more male students to campus, and win or lose, that's all the football program will be. If Valpo football was intended to be anything more, we'd be offering scholarships and have a facility that destroyed Brown Field a long time ago.

[vu72]

We're not going to see his contract changed because we're not the attention-getting, revenue-generating program that Tennessee is for the SEC. We're just a small program meant to generate more male students to campus, and win or lose, that's all the football program will be. If Valpo football was intended to be anything more, we'd be offering scholarships and have a facility that destroyed Brown Field a long time ago.

Not sure I agree. We have let long time coaches go due to performance in recent years and doubt they were at the end of their contracts, but just don't know.  We aren't talking about cross country or swimming, but one of the two biggest sports from an exposure and alumni basis.

[usc4valpo]

Also, on a financial scale - next to basketball, football at Valpo is by far the most expensive sport to operate.  Eating Carlson's contract is a crumb compared to the equipment, stadium maintenance, travel, assistant coaches, etc.  I am sure Carlson's salary is nothing compared to the AD and Bryce Drew.  You could see a mass exodus of players leaving if changes are not made.

I say pay for the mistake and move on.

[VULB#62]

Would reassigning him to other duties at the university obviate the need to buy him out or eat a contract? I wonder if the contract language is so tight that that it closes this option.  Then, if he wants to continue to coach football, he would have to resign to pursue that. I don't wish him ill.  He has proven himself at another level in a different scenario.  In this scenario, it just hasn't worked out.  It might be best for both the university and for him for him to return to those special coaching conditions.

But I doubt that will happen.  IMO Coach Carlson has exhibited certain stubbornness traits that preclude change, like imposing an offensive system on the players over three years that suit his agenda irrespective of what the kids bring to the talent pool.  He has not addressed the malady called defense, steadfastly maintaining that you can keep the points against down if you control the ball with his short passing spread game, and has stuck with that in the face of obvious failure.  As mentioned earlier in this string, he refuses to acknowledge coaching blunders and lays off failure on player performance ('"we" were inconsistent today."'     Duh, consistency is a coached-in characteristic.  You coach inconsistency out of the equation, you don't blame it for failure). 

One of the most stubborn, egotistical coaches in college football is Steve Spurrier.  His fun and gun offense, successful at numerous coaching stops,  proved not to be working after a couple of years at South Carolina.  He realized he had to change to compete with the LSUs and Bamas who played something called defense.  He shook up his entire FB operation, changed their objectives and their philosophy, and within two years was in the SEC top tier and in the same conversation with LSU and Bama.  I haven't seen that quality at Valpo yet.  When I asked Coach Carlson after the 2010 season what his plans were to avoid another season that allowed over 500 points, he told me they'd improve the offense so the D won't be on the field as much. Of course when the D in many games starts out by not causing a 3-and-out in the opponents' first few drives, and the leading tackler is your safety, regardless of whether the O puts a few drives together, you're in trouble.

[usc4valpo]

Very well put #62.  I do not think anyone is really defending his performance.  I don't know how you can.  The issue will be if the administration is stupid enough to keep him on for another year or two.  This really should be a no brainer.

[90]

All of these posts have basically summed up a hopeless situation that will most likely be left as is by an administration that won't do what's right by student-athletes who committed to an illusion.  If one man's stubbornness or ego is so powerful that he is not held accountable for his failure, then what are we selling to next year's recruiting class?  I honestly can't imagine what these coaches have to say at this point.  Yep, this is year number four of the turnaround.  Come help us not get blown out every week?  I would be humiliated if I had to promote a 2-31 record. 

If they are locked into a contract with this guy, then at the very least I hope they outline exactly what is expected of him this next year.  There have to be concrete goals that would force him to make the changes necessary to help this team find success.  If no improvement next season, then out he goes. Like 62 said, consistency is coached.  Fairly sure that he does not have the personality to deal with someone questioning his coaching style, but too bad.  Looking good on paper from days gone by does not excuse the three year disaster that we all just witnessed here.  This, of course, may all be a mute point if the players decide that it's just not worth it anymore.  I wouldn't blame them if they did.

Seems like a no brainier indeed.  A buyout of this contract would go a long way in restoring faith to the players and alumni who at this point have only been further alienated.  The fallout from keeping this staff on may be too big to survive at this point.

[VULB#62]

All of these posts have basically summed up a hopeless situation that will most likely be left as is by an administration that won't do what's right by student-athletes who committed to an illusion.  If one man's stubbornness or ego is so powerful that he is not held accountable for his failure, then what are we selling to next year's recruiting class?  I honestly can't imagine what these coaches have to say at this point.  Yep, this is year number four of the turnaround.  Come help us not get blown out every week?  I would be humiliated if I had to promote a 2-31 record. 

If they are locked into a contract with this guy, then at the very least I hope they outline exactly what is expected of him this next year.  There have to be concrete goals that would force him to make the changes necessary to help this team find success.  If no improvement next season, then out he goes. Like 62 said, consistency is coached.  Fairly sure that he does not have the personality to deal with someone questioning his coaching style, but too bad.  Looking good on paper from days gone by does not excuse the three year disaster that we all just witnessed here.  This, of course, may all be a mute point if the players decide that it's just not worth it anymore.  I wouldn't blame them if they did.

Seems like a no brainier indeed.  A buyout of this contract would go a long way in restoring faith to the players and alumni who at this point have only been further alienated.  The fallout from keeping this staff on may be too big to survive at this point.

[usc4valpo]

If they keep things the same regarding this situation, then as an alum I have lost of lot of faith and confidence with the administration.  Call me an amateur critic, but keeping the status quo of this turd of a situation is unacceptable.  2-31 with an average loss point differential of 31, a bad attitude, and student apathy over this says it all.