Nebraska Game

[HC]

Kent ha a forward named Chris Evans who is averaging 19 and 8.

[FWalum]

I know that I was very frustrated last night.  I also said "Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws." Now it is time to properly reflect on last night.
1.  We looked tentative and nervous hence the passes to nowhere on several occasions.  There were times when "I" thought a player had turned the corner on a defender but instead of being aggressive or taking the short jumper, like the last few games, we passed the ball back out to players that weren't ready for the pass or eager to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
2.  I think that not having Capo (or Edwards) is very tough on Kevin.  I really don't know how Kevin could be in game shape after the surgery, yet he played with a lot of heart.  I thought he looked tired and perhaps is not as quick off the floor as early last year.  Edwards was a much bigger offensive threat than Vashil and without Edwards or Capo the front line scoring falls solely on Kevin.
3.  Buggs' injury really hurts us and will be a concern for a while.  On the other hand, can anyone remember a time last year when Buggs had to sit and we were able to remain competitive?  Coming back and playing decent D the last 7 minutes without Erik has to be a positive.
4.  No one player is responsible for the loss. everything just looked a bit out of sync.  Play in point, at the end of the game we have the ball out of bounds on our end line, Ryan comes off a low screen and pops out high beyond the 3 point line wide open, we eventually throw him the ball but it is a second and a half late and he had to rotate the ball instead of a wide open shot.  Too many passes seemed a tad late, a tad high, behind the player or to someone who wasn't expecting the pass.
5.  No at-large bid unless we beat every other bubble type mid-major on the schedule.
6.  Still think this is a special team, just need to work through these early injuries and get Dority and Capo on the floor.
7.  Ryan 10 rebounds... still POY in my book.

[sliman]

Based on watching them on TV, Kent State's size will not be a problem for us, but they are a very solid team, athletic and hard-working on defense.  They appear to be better than Nebraska.  We'll have a difficult time with them, especially if Buggs is out; of course we can make that statement for every game during the next month.

[covufan]

$@&?;&"$-/:;($&)&"@$

That pretty much sums it up.

I'll second that.   

[vu72]

Disappointing game in all facets.  Bogan is not a point guard.  We need to find someone else to run the point for a few games.  Ryan and Kevin are entitled to a bad game, but the mark of a successful, top team is the ability of other players to compensate for an off-night from the star(s).  Although experienced, Valpo is not (yet) a top team.  It's an above-average mid-major team. 

Nebraska obviously did its homework before playing Valpo.  The comments of Brandon Ubel (quoted on huskeronline.com) speak volumes: "Watching the tape, they ran a lot of good plays, but most of their stuff came off of transition and kind of off confusion-type plays where they're just getting wide-open looks at the basket. Good players are going to knock that down, so we were able to take that away from them tonight."  Valpo either could not or did not adjust its game plan -- which is a coaching deficiency. 

I've followed SLU closely this year.  Like Valpo yesterday, SLU had a horrible game against Santa Clara a couple of nights ago.  However, assuming that SLU has an average game against Valpo, we will be in trouble unless we bring our "A-game."  If we play like we did against Nebraska, we will lose by 30+.  The SLU game will be a true testament of how we match up against a big-time opponent, as that will be the most-talented team that we face until the tournament.  Majerus just notified the team that he will not return this year, so Jim Crews (of Indiana fame) will guide this team for the foreseeable future.   

I don't think anybody on our schedule could beat us by anywhere near 30 points.  Ryan was a teammate of one of SLU's best players, also an Australian.  I suspect both players will have some insight for their respective coaches.

[EddieCabot]

I know that I was very frustrated last night.  I also said "Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws." Now it is time to properly reflect on last night.
1.  We looked tentative and nervous hence the passes to nowhere on several occasions.  There were times when "I" thought a player had turned the corner on a defender but instead of being aggressive or taking the short jumper, like the last few games, we passed the ball back out to players that weren't ready for the pass or eager to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
2.  I think that not having Capo (or Edwards) is very tough on Kevin.  I really don't know how Kevin could be in game shape after the surgery, yet he played with a lot of heart.  I thought he looked tired and perhaps is not as quick off the floor as early last year.  Edwards was a much bigger offensive threat than Vashil and without Edwards or Capo the front line scoring falls solely on Kevin.
3.  Buggs' injury really hurts us and will be a concern for a while.  On the other hand, can anyone remember a time last year when Buggs had to sit and we were able to remain competitive?  Coming back and playing decent D the last 7 minutes without Erik has to be a positive.
4.  No one player is responsible for the loss. everything just looked a bit out of sync.  Play in point, at the end of the game we have the ball out of bounds on our end line, Ryan comes off a low screen and pops out high beyond the 3 point line wide open, we eventually throw him the ball but it is a second and a half late and he had to rotate the ball instead of a wide open shot.  Too many passes seemed a tad late, a tad high, behind the player or to someone who wasn't expecting the pass.
5.  No at-large bid unless we beat every other bubble type mid-major on the schedule.
6.  Still think this is a special team, just need to work through these early injuries and get Dority and Capo on the floor.
7.  Ryan 10 rebounds... still POY in my book.

Very good assessment.  Valpo clearly didn't play a very good game, but I don't expect many more like that from them.

With that said, it's still only one loss ... the rush to write off any possibility of an at-large seems a bit premature, but the margin for error certainly shrunk a little.  I've said all along that this team isn't out of the at-large picture until they've lost 5 or 6 games.

Having high expectations for the team and for individuals on the team can be a double-edged sword, because it also creates a level of disappointment when the team and/or individuals don't perform up to expectations.  It may not be perceived as "fair", but it comes with the territory when you want to compete at the highest level.  I'm sure the team will learn from this game and improve going forward.

[vu72]

does anybody have a status report on Buggs? I suppose we will find out Sunday afternoon.

[covufan]

My thoughts on the game:  We had trouble converting close in shots, but we're able to drive to the basket, which gets us to the FT line.  Some made FTs at the end brought us up to a reasonable 66.7%.  Some shots were not great shot selection, but we need to hit those shots without a hand in our face.  Except for transfers, most VU basketball players were never offered a scholarship to a Nebraska caliber program.  Sure, there are exceptions, but overall VU needs to develop talent, and rely on above average coaching.  This is a team game - we win and lose as a team.  When a player is having an off night, the rest of the team needs to pick up their game.   The team hung in there and came back from a 14 point deficit in a low scoring game to make it interesting.  They need to never forget that if they played an average game, shooting from floor-wise, they can stay with just about everyone on the schedule.  Ryan was tough on the boards, as usual.  KVW had a good night, looking for his shot when in good position, and getting to the FT line.  Our second half defense (after the 14 point deficit) was great - needs to be that way all of the time.  How did Boggs get four fouls in 10 minutes, leaving the game with just under 7 minutes left?  We need to be mindful of our foul situation - a player can't help after fouling out.  Two scoring stretches for Nebraska 17-6 in the last 11 minutes of the first half, and a 10-0 run in about 2 minutes in the second half, really took the air out.  The first two of three timeouts in about a minute didn't seem to help.  This team will grow from last night.  In the past, when we had a poor shooting night in tough games like these, we also had too many senseless turnovers.  I don't think that will be the case this year.  We had some last night, but overall we did well on ball control.  This will especially help us during league play. 

I'm looking forward to watching this team grow during the season, especially with Capo coming on board in 3-4 weeks.

Still, somewhat frustrating to think that if just one of those close in shots, or one of those three's had hit...

[StlVUFan]

With that said, it's still only one loss ... the rush to write off any possibility of an at-large seems a bit premature, but the margin for error certainly shrunk a little.  I've said all along that this team isn't out of the at-large picture until they've lost 5 or 6 games.

THIS

[LaPorteAveApostle]

But even then (5-6), we're still in it.  More than 6, yeah, we're out, but at 29-6, no D-I team with that gaudy a record has ever not made the NCAA in the modern era. 

To get to 35 games and an at-large bid is win our way to the championship and then lose.  But either way, no team has ever won 29+ games and NOT made the Dance!  [source:  myself. http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.msg18627#msg18627 ]

30-5, 29-6...good enough.  but in the words of Jason Bateman after Buster goes on his swearing-at-mother spree, "let's hope it doesn't come to that."

(Now is that a guarantee?  Not exactly.  I'd hate to be the first one to have a record that gaudy and fail.  But if we win 29 games we can be no worse than 29 and 5 or 6.  Or if things go amazingly well but wrong in just the right places, 29-3 with a 1st round loss. But that would be very hard to do--one conference loss and the 3 seed?!?)

[LaPorteAveApostle]

(CAVEAT:  all of that history and math assumes that we NEVER play as poorly as last night, too.  but that goeth without saying.  or should.)

[lowposter]

After thinking it over and discussing the game with a knowledgable observer of the game who is not emotionally attached to this team, we both came to the same conclusion...Capo's injury is huge.  It leaves us with no serviceable backup banger.  This team relies on excellent ball movement and finding the open man.  That can be defended.  Nebraska's player admitted they prepared for that.  We really do not have anyone who can create their own shot effectively and consistently.

Gotta hang in there til Capo returns, hope that Buggs is not injured long term, use the non conference games for fine tuning and preparation for the conference, and then take care of bidness.

lowposter

[crusadermoe]

Sounds right to me.    I don't know hoops that well.     You just get used to watching the NBA or Kentuckys of the world.   They always have guards or wings who can fake a couple of times and get off a shot without catching a good pass first.   

Butler had two of them.   Valpo hasn't had that many over recent 8-10 years.   

[milanmiracle]

I know that I was very frustrated last night.  I also said "Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws." Now it is time to properly reflect on last night.
1.  We looked tentative and nervous hence the passes to nowhere on several occasions.  There were times when "I" thought a player had turned the corner on a defender but instead of being aggressive or taking the short jumper, like the last few games, we passed the ball back out to players that weren't ready for the pass or eager to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
2.  I think that not having Capo (or Edwards) is very tough on Kevin.  I really don't know how Kevin could be in game shape after the surgery, yet he played with a lot of heart.  I thought he looked tired and perhaps is not as quick off the floor as early last year.  Edwards was a much bigger offensive threat than Vashil and without Edwards or Capo the front line scoring falls solely on Kevin.
3.  Buggs' injury really hurts us and will be a concern for a while.  On the other hand, can anyone remember a time last year when Buggs had to sit and we were able to remain competitive?  Coming back and playing decent D the last 7 minutes without Erik has to be a positive.
4.  No one player is responsible for the loss. everything just looked a bit out of sync.  Play in point, at the end of the game we have the ball out of bounds on our end line, Ryan comes off a low screen and pops out high beyond the 3 point line wide open, we eventually throw him the ball but it is a second and a half late and he had to rotate the ball instead of a wide open shot.  Too many passes seemed a tad late, a tad high, behind the player or to someone who wasn't expecting the pass.
5.  No at-large bid unless we beat every other bubble type mid-major on the schedule.
6.  Still think this is a special team, just need to work through these early injuries and get Dority and Capo on the floor.
7.  Ryan 10 rebounds... still POY in my book.

1. I completely agree. I think that was a combination of things that will correct themselves with time. I think they got enamored with the penetrate and kick offense against lesser opponents who couldn't recover as well. I also think playing Big Ten quality players (barely), had an effect and mad them think a little too much. This too shall pass.

[atkins]

Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value.  I've watched all of SLU's games.  If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+.  That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated.  SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?).  We are slow and relatively unathletic. 

That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game.  We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'. 

Let's hope it is up from here.  If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.   

[valpopal]

The Nebraska newspaper Lincoln Journal-Star speculates Valpo's shooting problems might partially have been related to the schedule that had travel after a 7 a.m. game. I would like to believe the reason was that simple. We'll see how the team shoots on Sunday:

"Nebraska defeated a team you'll probably see in the NCAA Tournament. Valpo returned five starters from a 22-win team and is picked to win the Horizon League. In other words, Nebraska beat a veteran team it really wasn't supposed to. Shots weren't falling for the Crusaders, who were 13-of-24 on three-pointers in each of their first two games. They were 2-of-15 against Nebraska. That could be the effects of traveling two days after playing a 7 a.m. game, but give Miles' bunch credit for picking up Valpo on the perimeter, especially in transition, and limiting wide-open looks."

http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/hoops-gutty-win-walk-ons-and-a-fan-rant/article_553cd198-3004-11e2-8344-0019bb2963f4.html

[StlVUFan]

Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value.  I've watched all of SLU's games.  If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+.  That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated.  SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?).  We are slow and relatively unathletic. 

That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game.  We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'. 

Let's hope it is up from here.  If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.   

SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.

[wh]

Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value.  I've watched all of SLU's games.  If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+.  That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated.  SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?).  We are slow and relatively unathletic. 

That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game.  We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'. 

Let's hope it is up from here.  If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.   

SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.

...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points.  I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.

[StlVUFan]

Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value.  I've watched all of SLU's games.  If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+.  That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated.  SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?).  We are slow and relatively unathletic. 

That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game.  We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'. 

Let's hope it is up from here.  If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.   

SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.

...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points.  I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.

Fans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that.  "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half.  I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.

[wh]

Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value.  I've watched all of SLU's games.  If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+.  That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated.  SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?).  We are slow and relatively unathletic. 

That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game.  We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'. 

Let's hope it is up from here.  If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.   

SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.

...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points.  I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.

Fans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that.  "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half.  I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.

No pun intended? 

[vu72]

"slow and relatively unathletic" Doubt this new guy know much about basketball, or has seen guys like Erik or Jordan play, and probably is a SLU fan trying to stir up trouble.  We see how it turns out.

[atkins]

Vu72, you're correct about Buggs and Coleman, and Vashil is, of course, a stellar athlete.  The others, though, are nothing special as athletes (although Ryan and Kevin are certainly very special basketball players).   

I'm not a big SLU fan but like to watch college basketball and have been doing so for decades, including as many live games as possible (not just a tv BB junkie).  SLU has indeed underachieved, but the injury loss of their top player and coach would do that to just about any team. 

And I'm not interested in stirring up anything on this Board on behalf of SLU fans.  If I were doing that, I'd be on the A-10 Boards trolling around Butler's postings, not Valpo's.  By the way, Vu72, this Board can use some new posters....There are so few posters here and a dearth of Valpo posters elsewhere.

Good luck to Valpo today, and let's hope the guys rebound (literally and figuratively) form the painful loss. 

[FWalum]

Vu72, you're correct about Buggs and Coleman, and Vashil is, of course, a stellar athlete.  The others, though, are nothing special as athletes (although Ryan and Kevin are certainly very special basketball players).   

I'm not a big SLU fan but like to watch college basketball and have been doing so for decades, including as many live games as possible (not just a tv BB junkie).  SLU has indeed underachieved, but the injury loss of their top player and coach would do that to just about any team. 

And I'm not interested in stirring up anything on this Board on behalf of SLU fans.  If I were doing that, I'd be on the A-10 Boards trolling around Butler's postings, not Valpo's.  By the way, Vu72, this Board can use some new posters....There are so few posters here and a dearth of Valpo posters elsewhere.

Good luck to Valpo today, and let's hope the guys rebound (literally and figuratively) form the painful loss. 

Atkins, I understand where you are coming from, but I would like to suggest that many observers have fallen into the "athlete" trap when talking about athleticism and basketball.  The obvious things are speed and jumping ability, the less obvious things are skills like spatial awareness and hand eye coordination which a player like Ryan has in spades. It is rare to find players that have athleticism in all areas.  Learning or being coached properly to use your particular athletic skills is the key.  Are baseball players less athletic than basketball or football players?  Is someone who can jump through the roof but struggles to hit a 10' jumper more of an athlete than the vertically challenged sharpshooter? I guess it depends on your perspective.

[StlVUFan]

Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value.  I've watched all of SLU's games.  If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+.  That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated.  SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?).  We are slow and relatively unathletic. 

That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game.  We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'. 

Let's hope it is up from here.  If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.   

SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.

...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points.  I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.

Fans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that.  "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half.  I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.

No pun intended? 

Correct.

[wh]

Kent State beat Nebraska by 14 last night.