Valpo at Saint Louis 3:30 p.m. Chaifetz Arena St.Louis 12/2/12 game thread

[humbleopinion]

I just wonder why we don't see more of Rossi.  When no one is hitting, and Ryan is getting all of the attention, it would be nice to have a reliable shooter on the floor.

[EddieCabot]

I think the problem is this years group of new faces isn't meshing as well or as quickly as last years.  We have too many guys getting too much playing time. 

This comment puzzles me.  Valpo returns their top 6 from last year, while both Fernandez and Capobianco practiced with the team last year.  Coleman is the only "new face" who played today.  What am I missing?

[HC]

Games are obviously different then practice, and I would wager those guys barely practiced with the returning core, ie Capo and Vashil probably were guarding KVW during those practices. Maybe last years new guys meshed faster. We have 5 new faces: Capo, Vashil, Coleman, Rossi and Dority. I'm just throwing out an idea or two for discussion. Maybe, our team just isn't that good? I mean we've been playing below expectations for about 2 weeks or so.

Note: I don't believe the last statement to be true....yet

[truth219]

I think that could be true. Id like to see something different from our team. As in put rossi on the floor for 20 mins and see what he does. Bench boggs and bogan for some of the game. Once dority is eligible, he should start. I don't care if I've never seen him play. Buggs is garbage...he's fast...that's it. I wanna see some good post defense. Our zone today got picked apart.

[EddieCabot]

Games are obviously different then practice, and I would wager those guys barely practiced with the returning core, ie Capo and Vashil probably were guarding KVW during those practices. Maybe last years new guys meshed faster. We have 5 new faces: Capo, Vashil, Coleman, Rossi and Dority. I'm just throwing out an idea or two for discussion. Maybe, our team just isn't that good? I mean we've been playing below expectations for about 2 weeks or so.

Note: I don't believe the last statement to be true....yet

Fair enough.  Things will change again when Dority become eligible in a few weeks.  Maybe Bryce will have things sorted out by mid-January.

[HC]

I agree, he can get guys back to their position and we can back to playing the way they are comfortable.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Does anyone have a KenPom membership?  I'd be interested in seeing the eFG%, etc. for this team--both this year and last.

I mean, I suppose I know what they would be in the sense they will confirm my suspicions, but still...

Plus/minus for Nebraska (a sampling).  St. Louis not out yet...
Coleman +9
Bogan +5
Rossi, KVW -6
Buggs -15

[StlVUFan]

Maybe we'd be winning if Homer's son Bryce were coaching instead of Jim. See twitter pic for details

pic.twitter.com/y4Hn3gGf

It's probably the guy that does post-game for the baseball Cardinals (Pat Paris?).  What some people will go through to avoid doing simple homework is beyond me.

[bbtds]

Maybe, our team just isn't that good? I mean we've been playing below expectations for about 2 weeks or so.

Bingo. You have it correct. When a tough but simple defense makes you turn the ball over excessively. When you miss multiple wide open shots, when you're best player, who is an excellent player, falls short of leading the team in a number of games, when your big men in several games throw up prayers that look embarrassingly awkward and when you have a guard who can't throw up a shot that comes close to going in then you are a marginal team that is not good. It doesn't mean they don't have the potential to get much better, better enough to win the conference, but as of now they are not good. If I saw this team against Nebraska, St Louis and Chicago State only and no other games I would call them marginal to poor. I might even say they shoot like East Peoria. Sorry, JJenkins!

[StlVUFan]

Just back from game, here are my quick thoughts:

SLU is deeper in the front line than we are.  Their 5 (#51) drew 3rd foul early in 2nd half.  #54 (another 6-11 guy) replaced him and they didn't seem to miss a beat.  We can't really do that.

Remeken is only 6-5, but somehow did brisk business down low, even completing an alley oop play once.

When Bobby started jacking up 3s, I had no problem with that whatsoever because nothing conventional was working at that point.  We were overmatched.  There were alley oops tried that failed miserably (have to do better, but I don't mind the play).  We were in desperation mode because nothing normal was working right.  If Bobby thinks he can hit a 3 (and I don't remember anyone else being wide open at the time), by all means shoot it.  Anything to spark a turnaround.  As it turned out, we needed to get Matt Kenney open sooner instead, but oh well.

Part of what wasn't working, it seems to me, was that nobody was confident enough to shoot.  Buggs wasn't the only one passing up open shots.  Everybody was hesitating to shoot (until desperation time, of course).

SLU easily exploited holes in our defense way too often for my taste for easy layups (they also missed a few of those easy layups).

Someone sitting in front of me and a few seats down pointed out (as I think someone has here) that we have no true backup point guard until Dority becomes eligible.  I'm not really good enough to recognize why Will Bogan or Ben Boggs or Jordan Coleman aren't good in that position, but I accept that it's true.  It might well explain why we struggled on offense.

We were horrible from beyond the arc in the first half especially.  That probably also negatively impacted our offense.

[agibson]

Does anyone have a KenPom membership?  I'd be interested in seeing the eFG%, etc. for this team--both this year and last.

BBstate.com lets you get a certain number of page views free each day.  Probably enough to get what you want, e.g. access to
http://www.bbstate.com/teamstats/VALP
and then click back (upper-right corner) to last season.

eFG% is still high this season - but we've had some weak opponents.  53.4% so far this season, to last season's 53.5%.

[bbtds]

Comments from the SLU board:

Valpo is playing very poorly today.  Thank god!!

If Valpo is the best the Horizon has, yikes.  Of course, we are at home.  Valpo 5 and 1 beating the likes of GA Southern, Northern IL, Kent St, Chicago St., and  Bethune-Cookman.  Not a real 5 and 1.  Loss on road by two to Nebraska.

Rammer is a homer extraordinnairre but he is right on in what these refs are allowing.  I am sure we are doing it too but Valpo looks a hell of a lot more obvious with their pushes and hand checks and grabs.

I would say UIC is the best given their win over Northwestern last night (have to agree with this as of right now)

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I feel safe in saying that this is the most upset we've ever been about being 5-2. (Cp. with last year, or 2010...anyone remember what expectations were in 2000, 2001?  Kind of a blur of Eastern Europeans to me at this point.)

Anyway: plus/minus now done for the STL game.
best, not counting Rossi:
Vashil -3 (RR +7 [!]; Roland Rating is your +/- minus the +/- while you were not playing)
KVW, RB -4 (RR +5)
worst
Buggs -14 (-15 RR)
Boggs -15 (-17 RR)

A-RR-GH

[StlVUFan]

Maybe we'd be winning if Homer's son Bryce were coaching instead of Jim. See twitter pic for details

pic.twitter.com/y4Hn3gGf

It's probably the guy that does post-game for the baseball Cardinals (Pat Paris?).  What some people will go through to avoid doing simple homework is beyond me.

Never mind, I didn't pay attention to the picture.  It was the graphics guy or whoever fed him the line to type in that got it wrong.  I was thinking it was one of the on-air guys, but they both knew their Drews very well.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

LOL...those idiots...his name is actually spelled Gym

[vu72]

Capo does have talent, I don't know why you think he has none. Well, he did shoot poorly today. I can see that being a reason. I believe he will improve from this. As for Buggs, it really hurts to know we are playing 4 on 5 because they know allowing him to shoot a three is likely to result in a brick or an airball.

Not sure who you referring to, but as I was the last post before yours, I'll assume it was me.

I never said Capo didn't have talent, just that he was not very good today.  The team either isn't as good as we (me) thought or they are still working things out as a team. We failed to get guys open and when we did we didn't hit the open shot.  SLU shut down Rowdy, as has been the plan for many teams. These guys just did it while others tried.  We should expect this from everybody and against better teams we should expect success.  What this means is others will need to get the double team off Rowdy or score themselves. Today nobody did that.  I actually think Vashil played better than Kevin and I suspect we will see more of him, not less.

[vu84v2]

Dissapointing and terrible performance.  Valpo looked like a mediocre mid-major team that may win 20 games (only because they have enough weak opponents), but will lose in the first round in the CIT or CBI.  Their first defensive priority was taking Broekhoff away and the second was taking KVW away.  Valpo had no second option with KVW playing poorly and really had no third option.  Capobianco looked lost (did he ever get a rebound?) and Fernandez looked raw.  The only bright spot I saw was that Kenney played the second half with heart.

I guess a hope here is that this game is sort of like the Indiana game in the 1996-1997 season.  In that game, Valpo had their top offensive option taken away and could never score after that point.  The issue was that Valpo LEARNED from that.  It seemed today like they would start to run their offense and then if they couldn't get into it, they just sort of panicked and stopped moving people and the ball.

It is very hard for me to concur that Dority will be the savior.  I hope that I am wrong, but a guy that couldn't really cut it as the backup point guard at South Florida is not suddenly going to come in and be a star that hits shots for Valpo.  Quality ball handling and quickness is probably all that can be really expected for some time from Dority.

[valpopal]

I was out all day with Christmas season activities, but recorded the game for viewing this evening, and I am glad I didn't cancel any plans to stay home and watch the game. As everyone has mentioned, the team was flat, and the combinations of players used on the court often seemed to have trouble being effective together. Also, I think the team needed to work the inside more forcefully. When the trio of Buggs, Van Wijk, and Capo go 0-7 on 3-point shots (Erik taking as many as Ryan: Bobby and Kevin having only 1 more rebound than they did 3-point shots), you know something is not working. That may also be why the big lineup didn't work in the brief time it was tried. In addition, it is clear Bobby is still not at 100%, but when he is I would like to see a front line of Bobby-Kevin-Ryan that pushes the ball inside and crashes the boards and draws more fouls, with only Ryan popping outside the arc for shots. I still believe that is the strongest inside combination.

Despite this, I am not overly disappointed. I had predicted a loss to St. Louis, and Valpo is exactly where I had expected (5-2). As I have said in the past, I never thought there was a chance for an at-large bid, so I am not concerned about that. Instead, I think the games in December are an extended period of experimenting and finding combinations that work, as well as getting everyone healthy and adding Dority. For me, the real season doesn't begin until January, and the most important games are not until the conference tournament in March. My expectations were that the games in November and December would be somewhat uneven, but the conference season would be when the team found its rhythm and momentum, with the hope of peaking at the time of the conference tournament. Therefore, I'm not too worried yet, and I am still optimistic.

[78crusader]

We are at best an average to just below average team right now.  They say that one sign of good coaching is whether a team gets better as the season goes along. So, we'll see what happens. If this team continues to sputter, Bryce Drew won't have to field any calls after the season from teams looking for a new coach like Miss St last year.

Paul

[valpopal]

We are at best an average to just below average team right now.  They say that one sign of good coaching is whether a team gets better as the season goes along. So, we'll see what happens. If this team continues to sputter, Bryce Drew won't have to field any calls after the season from teams looking for a new coach like Miss St last year.

Paul

Let's remember Valpo was also 5-2 at this point last year, and then went on to lose four more December games to IPFW, Oakland, and IUPUI, as well as a home game against Milwaukee!

Yet, the team came together to win the conference season title and only fell short at the conference tournament championship game. I am optimistic and looking for this team to repeat, but to win the championship game this time.

[bbtds]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/slu-shakes-off-shock-to-beat-valparaiso/article_6eac39b4-e570-5bf7-8cd5-18069e4a0a68.html

SLU shakes off 'shock' to beat Valparaiso

By TOM TIMMERMANN ttimmermann@post-dispatch.com 314-340-81900

There was no doubt about it for St. Louis U. forward Cody Ellis. How have the last 24 hours been, he was asked Sunday afternoon.
"Not fun," he said.

The SLU basketball team learned after practice Saturday that Rick Majerus, the coach who brought them all here and who, with a couple of exceptions, had helped teach them the game, had died after a long battle with heart troubles, a death both predictable yet unexpected. Less than 24 hours later, they had to take to the court to play a Valparaiso team that was not one to be taken lightly.

"It's never good when you hear someone so close to you passes away," Ellis said. "We knew he wasn't very healthy, but it was still such a shock to hear it yesterday. I think it helped us regroup as a team. We came out today to play for him and did great job of that."

In a game that would have made Majerus proud – well, maybe not the 18 turnovers – SLU beat Valparaiso 62-49 on Sunday afternoon at Chaifetz Arena. In some stretches in the first half, SLU's offense moved the ball the best it had all season, showing the passing and side switching that Majerus preached, and throughout, its defense was solid, holding the Crusaders, who came into the game shooting 48 percent from the field, to 32.6 overall, 23.8 percent on 3's.

There were plenty of big numbers in the box score for SLU (4-3), which shot 55.6 percent from the field. Dwayne Evans had 17 points and five rebounds. Jordair Jett had 14 points, seven assists, six rebounds and three steals. Mike McCall had 10 points. Cory Remekun had three blocked shots.

"You can pick out any guy," interim coach Jim Crews said. "Mike McCall, Jordair, Dwayne. I felt our guys, the starters and off the bench, did a great job."

It was, as Evans said, "definitely a different day" at Chaifetz. Though Majerus had been gone all season, and everyone knew, even before it became official Nov. 16, that he wasn't coming back, the coach's death was, obviously, a major bridge to cross and a sad event for the SLU faithful who had watched him turn the program around. As recently as March, he was in practice and on the sidelines with the team. Now, at the start of December, he was gone.

"The standing ovation he got before the game was just awesome," said Evans. "It was really great to see the support we had."

A moment of silence before the game led into a 40-second long ovation. The student section wore black, commemorating Majerus' favored color of clothing. But beyond that, it could have been any other day at Chaifetz. If there was a fear that Majerus' death would render Sunday's game a dreary event, that was misplaced. The band played like normal, the cheerleaders cheered like any other game and SLU's defense was its old ornery self, forcing 18 turnovers.

Crews admitted that he had some doubts about how his team might come out, but that associate head coach Jim Whitesell convinced Crews it would be otherwise.

"My feeling," Whitesell said, "was the guys are a little bit older, a little bit more seasoned, and with Coach (Majerus), which way did he teach you how to play? I didn't think it was going to be an issue. Also, they had a lot of respect for Valparaiso."

SLU used a 13-5 run in the final seven minutes of the first half to take a seven-point halftime lead. By midway through the second half, the lead was 16 and the Billikens were in control. The defense at the start of the second half was especially good, and the Crusaders committed 11 turnovers in the half and shot just 28 percent. Valparaiso got the lead down to eight points with 3:32 to play, thanks to SLU's own hefty turnover count and some faulty free throw shooting – in one stretch, SLU made just five of 10 – before the defense clicked back in and allowed just four points the rest of the way.

"I'm very proud of how these guys played the game today," Crews said. "I thought the players responded extremely well. I thought they really fought."

In the closing seconds, Evans and Ellis shared a moment on the court, talking about Majerus.

"We were thinking about him breaking down the game," Evans said, "and what he'd have to say about how we played and how we ran things. I'm sad that won't be the case any more."

[DMvalpo18]

We are at best an average to just below average team right now.  They say that one sign of good coaching is whether a team gets better as the season goes along. So, we'll see what happens. If this team continues to sputter, Bryce Drew won't have to field any calls after the season from teams looking for a new coach like Miss St last year.

Paul

Let's remember Valpo was also 5-2 at this point last year, and then went on to lose four more December games to IPFW, Oakland, and IUPUI, as well as a home game against Milwaukee!

Yet, the team came together to win the conference season title and only fell short at the conference tournament championship game. I am optimistic and looking for this team to repeat, but to win the championship game this time.

I totally agree. And to VU72, you are right as well. Capo just had a poor performance today, and Rowdy was just totally shut down. Nobody had any rhythm today whatsoever.

[truth219]

I miss richie edwards

[78crusader]

The losses don't bother me as much as HOW we lose--uninspired, listless play, plus the fact that every time we play on a bigger stage, we fold up like a card table.

Paul

[justducky]

I miss richie edwards

I said last spring that we would have some games this season where Richie and Jay might have made a difference and yesterday was one of them. Their combination of skills at backup minutes at the 1,2, and 4 positions would have been invaluable, but going foreward I still like this team better.

Capo showed us nothing yesterday but if that is all he can give us then Edwards would never have left, so I still am expecting major contributions from him. Dority and a maturing Coleman can give this team some brand new looks and opportunities that just were not available in Saint Louis.

One more side observation, I think I have already seen more go big combination minutes of Vashil, Kevin, and Ryan than I expected to see all year and with one more 3 point shooter capable of creating his own shot on the floor with them, it might even have worked.