Valpo to the MVC!

jetz · November 28, 2012, 03:41:33 PM

OK, not really. I was just thinking about this year's round of conference realignment and teams jumping all over the place and thought, "Why not us?" My wife looked into it a little bit, and it turns out that the Missouri Valley Conference has nine basketball schools. With basketball being the big driver for MVC sports, you would think that a tenth team would be desirable. Valpo is a great fit geographically, and our enrollment is similar to MVC schools like Drake and Evansville. The MVC does not require football (Evansville has no football team), and we would upgrade big time in baseball and softball. (Creighton, Wichita St., and Indiana State in baseball, for example. Creighton's home field is TDAmeritrade Park, home of the College World Series!) We could keep football as it is (or upgrade it, or whatever) and move all other sports to the MVC. It would be interesting to know if the HL teams have had any serious discussions lately in this vein. I'll be all for it when they call and ask my opinion.... 8)

mvandersee · November 28, 2012, 04:10:49 PM

MVC still has 10 basketball schools, but even if they didn't it wouldn't be in their best interest to add Valpo. In all honesty baseball and basketball would be facing an uphill battle when it comes to recruiting against the MVC schools due to facilities. Valpo would by far have the smallest arena for basketball and the baseball facility would be considered subpar in comparison to some of these stadiums (Eck Stadium, TD Ameritrade, and Hammons for example)

valpotx · November 28, 2012, 04:16:21 PM

The one positive is that if the MVC did want a HL program, it would be us. I see UW-Milwaukee always playing up their ability, and saying that MVC programs want them...but that just won't happen.

jetz · November 28, 2012, 04:19:07 PM

Quote from: mvandersee on November 28, 2012, 04:10:49 PM
MVC still has 10 basketball schools, but even if they didn't it wouldn't be in their best interest to add Valpo. In all honesty baseball and basketball would be facing an uphill battle when it comes to recruiting against the MVC schools due to facilities. Valpo would by far have the smallest arena for basketball and the baseball facility would be considered subpar in comparison to some of these stadiums (Eck Stadium, TD Ameritrade, and Hammons for example)

True, but we'd get all the top Lutherans in the Midwest.

I know that Evansville just built a new off campus basketball arena. And you're right about the facilities at the others. We don't generate enough basketball cash to interest them. The actual teams on the floor and fields could compete today, though...

usc4valpo · November 28, 2012, 05:28:49 PM

I will say this, I like the idea and enthusiasm to think bigger. We would need to upgrade our facility, however. The rivalry will the 'Ville would be back!

Valposter · December 03, 2012, 02:50:36 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on November 28, 2012, 05:28:49 PMI will say this, I like the idea and enthusiasm to think bigger. We would need to upgrade our facility, however. The rivalry will the 'Ville would be back!

I don't know how to set up a voting poll, so I'm just going to ask a hypothetical question and anyone comment that would like to share an opinion:

If Valpo athletics had the option of moving to either the MVC or the A-10 Conference, which one would be in the best long-term interest of Valpo to join, and why?

crusadermoe · December 03, 2012, 02:59:16 PM

Now that our non-hoops sports are so strong I think its NOT A crazy idea to draw an invite from the MVC.

If you apply the TV market calculus used by the Big 10, the MVC would be adding a CHICAGO team that has at least SOME Chicago recognition, esp. while Bryce is here. St. Louis is the true hub of the MVC and its tournament site ,but Drake, Creighton, Bradley, Ill St. and UNI would seem to like the extra Chicago games. You can fly direct to Chicago from all of the MVC cities I would guess. Easier than flying Wichita to Terre Haute

KL31NY · December 05, 2012, 10:55:33 AM

It's worth noting that Dallas Baptist will join the MVC (baseball-only) for the 2014 season. Joining, like DBU, as an affiliate member for baseball would give the Valley 10 baseball programs (VU + DBU + the current 8 programs (all but Drake, UNI)).

The Valley and Horizon League have enough teams in other sports that I think it'd be crazy, or at the very least confusing, if we left one for the other for anything more than a sport or maybe two. Also, there is no men's swimming/diving in the MVC, which I post more as a fun fact than anything else.

crusadermoe · December 05, 2012, 12:17:02 PM

So where would Dallas Baptist be located?

Gets them a tip toe into Dallas cable TV market if D.Bapt adds more sports. Next Valpo and add Chicago?

Valposter · December 05, 2012, 12:19:23 PM

Below is the 2012 baseball standings (conference and overall) and RPI for the MVC. Where would last year's 2012 Valpo baseball team (22 - 8 conference, 33 - 25 overall, 145 RPI) slotted in if they had competed in the MVC? I think they would have competed with Indiana St. for the conference championship. They played Indiana St. on the road and lost 2-1 in extra innings (I believe 16 innings). Thoughts?

Missouri Valley Baseball 2012

Conference Record Overall Record RPI

Indiana State 14 - 7 40 - 19 47
Missouri State 13 - 7 40 - 22 36
Wichita State 12 - 9 35 - 25 45
Illinois State 10 - 9 31 - 19 58
Evansville 10 - 11 32 - 27 87
Southern Illinois 9 - 12 31 - 28 114
Bradley 8 - 13 27 - 27 120
Creighton 6 - 14 28 - 30 123

valpotx · December 05, 2012, 12:24:13 PM

Eh, I wouldn't go so far as to say that we would have competed for the championship based on that one game. It is a good-sized step up in baseball to go to the MVC, as Wichita State is typically a NATIONAL player each year, Indiana State competed well nationally, and Missouri State/Illinois State are usually decent. Creighton had a down year last year, but is usually fairly good. I would have placed us in the top 5, just not sure where in that 5. If you look at their records, just about everyone has a winning record, whereas in the HL maybe 2 or 3 have winning records each season.

In regards to Dallas Baptist, they are located in a city called Cedar Hill. Dallas Baptist has absolutely zero pull in the Dallas TV market. The only teams you really see on TV in DFW are TCU, SMU, UNT, and the big schools (Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Baylor sometimes).

Valposter · December 05, 2012, 12:39:21 PM

Valpotx, I think we are saying close to the same thing. I'm not saying we would have won the MVC last year, but that we would have competed (i.e. at least top 3 or 4 in conference and and in VERY close contention). The second half of last year we were playing at that level, imo (dominating Milwaukee, taking 2 of 3 on road against Wright State, beating ND on the road, almost beating Indiana State on the road). Again, last year was our best year in quite awhile and the MVC was slightly down with Wichita St. and Creighton having down years for them. Yet to be seen how we sustain as a program, which we will need to do to compete at the MVC level, but I think we will sustain and grow as long as our Coaching Staff stays intact.

Valposter · December 05, 2012, 12:40:57 PM

One thing for sure is that our RPI would increase significantlly playing with the MVC conference baseball schedule as long as we compete well.

valpotx · December 05, 2012, 12:44:17 PM

Yes, as even their last place team was higher than us lol

Valposter · December 06, 2012, 11:20:00 AM

Here's a link to an "alternative" method to RPI of ranking college baseball teams. It's called the Nolan Power Index (NPI) and it weights a team's record against Division 1 teams, and it's Strength of Schedule. In 2012, Valpo's baseball team had a record against Division 1 teams of 33-25 (ranked 92nd), and a Strength os Schedule of .4741 (ranked 208th) for an NPI of 91. Valpo baseball is ranked more favorably in this method, than the traditional RPI of 145. Thought it was interesting.....here's the link if anyone would like to take a look.........

http://warrennolan.com/baseball/2012/npi

covufan · December 06, 2012, 12:42:08 PM

Quote from: Valposter on December 06, 2012, 11:20:00 AM
Here's a link to an "alternative" method to RPI of ranking college baseball teams. It's called the Nolan Power Index (NPI) and it weights a team's record against Division 1 teams, and it's Strength of Schedule. In 2012, Valpo's baseball team had a record against Division 1 teams of 33-25 (ranked 92nd), and a Strength os Schedule of .4741 (ranked 208th) for an NPI of 91. Valpo baseball is ranked more favorably in this method, than the traditional RPI of 145. Thought it was interesting.....here's the link if anyone would like to take a look.........

http://warrennolan.com/baseball/2012/npi

Here is the Massey Ratings baseball rankings, which include all baseball teams. You can also sort for NCAA, NCAA division I, etc.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&yr=2012&sub=180556

valpotx · December 06, 2012, 01:13:35 PM

Quote from: Valposter on December 06, 2012, 11:20:00 AM
Here's a link to an "alternative" method to RPI of ranking college baseball teams. It's called the Nolan Power Index (NPI) and it weights a team's record against Division 1 teams, and it's Strength of Schedule. In 2012, Valpo's baseball team had a record against Division 1 teams of 33-25 (ranked 92nd), and a Strength os Schedule of .4741 (ranked 208th) for an NPI of 91. Valpo baseball is ranked more favorably in this method, than the traditional RPI of 145. Thought it was interesting.....here's the link if anyone would like to take a look.........

http://warrennolan.com/baseball/2012/npi

Oh yes, I tend to much more go to Warren Nolan for baseball RPI, than any other

Valposter · December 06, 2012, 01:14:30 PM

covufan, thanks for the link!

valpotx · December 06, 2012, 01:15:36 PM

Quote from: covufan on December 06, 2012, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Valposter on December 06, 2012, 11:20:00 AM
Here's a link to an "alternative" method to RPI of ranking college baseball teams. It's called the Nolan Power Index (NPI) and it weights a team's record against Division 1 teams, and it's Strength of Schedule. In 2012, Valpo's baseball team had a record against Division 1 teams of 33-25 (ranked 92nd), and a Strength os Schedule of .4741 (ranked 208th) for an NPI of 91. Valpo baseball is ranked more favorably in this method, than the traditional RPI of 145. Thought it was interesting.....here's the link if anyone would like to take a look.........

http://warrennolan.com/baseball/2012/npi

Here is the Massey Ratings baseball rankings, which include all baseball teams. You can also sort for NCAA, NCAA division I, etc.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&yr=2012&sub=180556

Wow, never seen this one. Interesting to see how they compared the different levels, with us at 185 in their format

Valposter · December 06, 2012, 02:20:23 PM

Quote from: valpotx on December 06, 2012, 01:15:36 PM
Quote from: covufan on December 06, 2012, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Valposter on December 06, 2012, 11:20:00 AMHere's a link to an "alternative" method to RPI of ranking college baseball teams. It's called the Nolan Power Index (NPI) and it weights a team's record against Division 1 teams, and it's Strength of Schedule. In 2012, Valpo's baseball team had a record against Division 1 teams of 33-25 (ranked 92nd), and a Strength os Schedule of .4741 (ranked 208th) for an NPI of 91. Valpo baseball is ranked more favorably in this method, than the traditional RPI of 145. Thought it was interesting.....here's the link if anyone would like to take a look......... http://warrennolan.com/baseball/2012/npi
Here is the Massey Ratings baseball rankings, which include all baseball teams. You can also sort for NCAA, NCAA division I, etc. http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&yr=2012&sub=180556
Wow, never seen this one. Interesting to see how they compared the different levels, with us at 185 in their format

Valpotx, keep in mind this site included ALL levels of NCAA college baseball (D1, D2, D3). Very different. I've never seen a site that attempts to rate different levels of baseball together. So Valpo is 185 out of 1,000 rated college teams. You can sort by just D1 programs. Valpo comes in at 154 of 297 D1 baseball programs with Massey. I've attached the link below with the D1 sort. These ratings seem to be all over the board for Valpo last year:

Valpo RPI: 145
Valpo NPI: 91
Valpo Massey: 154

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&sub=NCAA I

new2ff · December 06, 2012, 04:07:42 PM

Valpo would have a difficult time in MVC.
They might be top 3 in MBB, top 4 in VB & maybe baseball. Don't know enough about soccer top to bottom in MVC to say. Other sports they would be in deep doo-doo, unless they step up recruiting by a long ways. Track & CC would get killed.

vu72 · December 06, 2012, 04:29:37 PM

Quote from: new2ff on December 06, 2012, 04:07:42 PM
Valpo would have a difficult time in MVC.
They might be top 3 in MBB, top 4 in VB & maybe baseball. Don't know enough about soccer top to bottom in MVC to say. Other sports they would be in deep doo-doo, unless they step up recruiting by a long ways. Track & CC would get killed.

Here's a news flash! We are already getting killed in track, cc and swimming. The change in conference wouldn't effect those results in the least. You can throw in women's tennis and men's tennis for that matter, although it appears the men's picture might be changing. Butler will get killed in non-basketball sports as well. It didn't stop them for one second in jumping conferences. In their case however, it was a bad decision for the student athlete with all the travel involved. Sure, they will make more money, that is understood. In the Valley's case our travel would be about the same.

crusadermoe · December 06, 2012, 04:38:59 PM

Agree with you 72. It's all about mens basketball and staying in the mix to get a share of the NCAA pie by being in a bid-eligible conference. If they start tightening up the tourament sometime soon, the Valley seems like a very solid bet to stay in the mix. If Evansville, Drake, and Bradley can hang in that company there is NO reason we cannot.

The MVC is unlikely to call, but it's a "no brainer" to jump in and fix the other sports later.

new2ff · December 06, 2012, 04:54:22 PM

As I read many of these posts I smile at how so many accept Valpo being poor or mediocre in SO Many of the sports. Such a great school this should not be the case, I don't get it.

covufan · December 06, 2012, 05:53:00 PM

Quote from: Valposter on December 06, 2012, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: valpotx on December 06, 2012, 01:15:36 PM
Quote from: covufan on December 06, 2012, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Valposter on December 06, 2012, 11:20:00 AMHere's a link to an "alternative" method to RPI of ranking college baseball teams. It's called the Nolan Power Index (NPI) and it weights a team's record against Division 1 teams, and it's Strength of Schedule. In 2012, Valpo's baseball team had a record against Division 1 teams of 33-25 (ranked 92nd), and a Strength os Schedule of .4741 (ranked 208th) for an NPI of 91. Valpo baseball is ranked more favorably in this method, than the traditional RPI of 145. Thought it was interesting.....here's the link if anyone would like to take a look......... http://warrennolan.com/baseball/2012/npi
Here is the Massey Ratings baseball rankings, which include all baseball teams. You can also sort for NCAA, NCAA division I, etc. http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&yr=2012&sub=180556
Wow, never seen this one. Interesting to see how they compared the different levels, with us at 185 in their format

Valpotx, keep in mind this site included ALL levels of NCAA college baseball (D1, D2, D3). Very different. I've never seen a site that attempts to rate different levels of baseball together. So Valpo is 185 out of 1,000 rated college teams. You can sort by just D1 programs. Valpo comes in at 154 of 297 D1 baseball programs with Massey. I've attached the link below with the D1 sort. These ratings seem to be all over the board for Valpo last year:

Valpo RPI: 145
Valpo NPI: 91
Valpo Massey: 154

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&sub=NCAA I

Massey also has a comparison ranking, using several other baseball ranking systems:

http://www.masseyratings.com/cbase/compare.htm

If you go to www.masseyratings.com you can also find volleyball, tennis, etc. If you click on the valpo link, it will go to the current season. You can look up previous Valpo rankings from previous years as well.