If Freeman doesn't win next year then...

[jack]

what ValpoHoops has stated certainly makes a lot of sense. And there should, and will be some accountability at some point if things don't get turned around. There has to be, or as they say, "anyone can coach". And it is true, that it isn't the players fault that the wins aren't coming. Ultimately, the line ups, plays, match ups, substitutions, and schemes are all on the coaches. The players can't control that. I will have to disagree a bit on one point being made: I feel that part of our struggles, from my perspective, is that we don't count on our freshman enough. Many times comments have been made here that, "they wont play much, they're Freshman." The women's game has changed enourmously in the past five years. These incoming freshman, here, and everywhere, have played the travel circuit through AAU and other programs, with many competing in more games in one summer, then some of these college programs play in two years. And they compete at a very high level against very good talent all over the country. It's not a stretch to say by the time they get to college, they've already competed with, and against similiar talent. Granted, not all of the talent they see goes on to the next level to play, but many do, and they'll compete against them again at this level. I don't think it helps their mental aspects of the game to compete at such a high level, only to get to the college level and sit on the bench the majority of the season. True, some may need to ride the pines for most of the season to get the feel and flow of stepping up to this level, but others are clearly ready to come in first year and help out with possitive minutes from the start. Moses at Purdue comes to mind. She went to a bigger program then ours and helped out from the start. There are exceptions to every rule, and to sit your freshman for a season because it's "what you do," may be hurting your team more then you know. A teams leaders can come from any class, and thats a fact. It takes a special person, and player to want to step up and assume that role. I think it's only fair to see if you have that person early on. I'm not saying that our incoming class has a lock on that role, but I think they have proven that they can assume that role if asked to. Both came from the middle school ranks and took over that roll as Freshman in highschool. I wouldn't discount them just because they are freshmen. Let's see what they bring to the table. We all agree that we need a floor leader. I think it's time we look through the entire roster and see who can fit the bill with actions, deeds, and play. We'd be remiss if we didn't do just that. 

[valporun]

I go back to a comment I made about this originally about the consistency of the coaching staff. We have had a lot of turnover in coaching on the women's team. Some of this might have been a young up-and-comer in the coaching ranks, or deciding it was time to move on, but ever since Steve Bruce left to become the head coach at IUSB, Valpo doesn't have that one coach that seems to have the best chemistry of how to work with Keith on improving players or recruiting to the needs of the team. I know I'll get some crap on the board about this, but I still feel we haven't had the consistency in coaching that really helps our team grow and find that floor general that we've lacked since either Lauren Bechtold or the Hochstetler twin that started at PG.

[ValpoHoops]

what ValpoHoops has stated certainly makes a lot of sense. And there should, and will be some accountability at some point if things don't get turned around. There has to be, or as they say, "anyone can coach". And it is true, that it isn't the players fault that the wins aren't coming. Ultimately, the line ups, plays, match ups, substitutions, and schemes are all on the coaches. The players can't control that. I will have to disagree a bit on one point being made: I feel that part of our struggles, from my perspective, is that we don't count on our freshman enough. Many times comments have been made here that, "they wont play much, they're Freshman." The women's game has changed enourmously in the past five years. These incoming freshman, here, and everywhere, have played the travel circuit through AAU and other programs, with many competing in more games in one summer, then some of these college programs play in two years. And they compete at a very high level against very good talent all over the country. It's not a stretch to say by the time they get to college, they've already competed with, and against similiar talent. Granted, not all of the talent they see goes on to the next level to play, but many do, and they'll compete against them again at this level. I don't think it helps their mental aspects of the game to compete at such a high level, only to get to the college level and sit on the bench the majority of the season. True, some may need to ride the pines for most of the season to get the feel and flow of stepping up to this level, but others are clearly ready to come in first year and help out with possitive minutes from the start. Moses at Purdue comes to mind. She went to a bigger program then ours and helped out from the start. There are exceptions to every rule, and to sit your freshman for a season because it's "what you do," may be hurting your team more then you know. A teams leaders can come from any class, and thats a fact. It takes a special person, and player to want to step up and assume that role. I think it's only fair to see if you have that person early on. I'm not saying that our incoming class has a lock on that role, but I think they have proven that they can assume that role if asked to. Both came from the middle school ranks and took over that roll as Freshman in highschool. I wouldn't discount them just because they are freshmen. Let's see what they bring to the table. We all agree that we need a floor leader. I think it's time we look through the entire roster and see who can fit the bill with actions, deeds, and play. We'd be remiss if we didn't do just that.  

Whoa...we need to get jack on the paragraph system

I can't disagree really with your premise on freshmen. I don't think I stated it quite as I wanted to in my original posting. Freshmen, if they are good, need to play and can contribute. My thought was more along the lines of not having a veteran leader (of course, they don't have to be juniors or seniors, but it helps to have people that have been through it). The only exception would be someone, as you mentioned, like Courtney Moses...unfortunately for VU, I don't think a player like her is coming along any time soon. (And yes, I know the kids coming in are very good)

I didn't mean to say that playing freshmen wasn't the answer, I meant it more as a "you need to have a mix of everyone, and generally the older kids are more reliable and consistent", and that's just the nature of the beast. And, that's where my point came from...its great to have good incoming classes, but who are they learning from, who is leading them, who is the "go-to" player when the team needs a basket?

[jack]

Sorry about the run on. sometimes when I get a thought, I forget to come up for air.

I agree with your assesment. It is always nice if your upper classmen pave the way for the younger players. Sometime though, they need a push, from said younger players, to grab the raines. I think the talent we have coming in could, quite possibly, force all of the upper classmen to step up to their potential, and play the way Keith knew they could when he recruited them. 

[vu72]

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has said anything about these two new players on the women's team.  Any thoughts??

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/article_aa014c31-203d-514a-a871-4d81df91156d.html

[SadersofthelostArc]

Ok, so with the recent mentions of dcvalpo, I went back at checked out some of his old postings.  This thread is gold.  Lots of awesome discussion about the girls' program, the coaching staff, et al.  Two years removed, it is interesting to look back and see what the posters thought then as compared to now.  jack loved him some Freeman and he seems to not be a Dorow believer today.  72 was his typical self.

These were apparently the golden days of the message board...much more entertaining than most of the drivel posted round these parts nowadays.

[jack]

Ok, so with the recent mentions of dcvalpo, I went back at checked out some of his old postings.  This thread is gold.  Lots of awesome discussion about the girls' program, the coaching staff, et al.  Two years removed, it is interesting to look back and see what the posters thought then as compared to now.  jack loved him some Freeman and he seems to not be a Dorow believer today.  72 was his typical self.

These were apparently the golden days of the message board...much more entertaining than most of the drivel posted round these parts nowadays.

I haven't a clue what your reading but it amazes me how you like to interpret comments and statements. I never "Loved me some Freeman" as you put it. On the contrary, I felt he and Kirby had let the game pass them by, and needed a new philosophy to be sucessful. I did give him cudos for pulling out 10 wins with the shape his team was in, but honestly, I felt we let a couple go we shouldn't have. Dorow is in a different arena then she was used to competing in. I feel she needs to adopt to the changes, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. We're small, so we need to be smart. The two elements on O that i feel we need to step up our game on is the pick and roll, and the screen. We are very weak in both areas. we have the speed to have success in these areas, we just need to implement them into our game. Dribbling around aimlessly at times isn't getting it done. Like I said before, we need to work to our talents' strengths. I have no personal beef about Dorow, or her staff, I just prefer to watch the games and see where we have success, and where we do not. Dorow doesn't need me as a cheerleader, she has you! 
When your watching the next game try something for me. On offense, don't watch the ball. Concentrate on the movements of the other 4 players that don't have the ball. This can tell you a lot.

[vu72]

Ok, so with the recent mentions of dcvalpo, I went back at checked out some of his old postings.  This thread is gold.  Lots of awesome discussion about the girls' program, the coaching staff, et al.  Two years removed, it is interesting to look back and see what the posters thought then as compared to now.  jack loved him some Freeman and he seems to not be a Dorow believer today.  72 was his typical self.

These were apparently the golden days of the message board...much more entertaining than most of the drivel posted round these parts nowadays.

HEY!!!  I resemble that remark!! 

[IndyValpo]

I liked this thread because my comments were actually spot-on for change.....

[bbtds]

Speaking of Keith Freeman, he returns to the ARC, after 18 years as the Valpo women's head coach, on Feb.28, Thursday, 7:00 p.m. game.


Here's a picture of the Wright State asst coaches on the bench at the Nutter Center:

http://www.wsuraiders.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27000&SPID=92416&SPSID=630957&BIO_PLAYER_ID=818713&KEY=

[SadersofthelostArc]

I have to say I agree with what Freeman, and the coaching staff are working towards...Keith, and his staff, have done a great job of selling Valpo to the young players...I truly feel we will see some special things out of this squad next season. Stay Tuned! 

Sounds like love to me.  Just sayin.  Not to mention the "booking" a winning season.

Oh well, live and learn I guess.

[SadersofthelostArc]

Ok, so with the recent mentions of dcvalpo, I went back at checked out some of his old postings.  This thread is gold.  Lots of awesome discussion about the girls' program, the coaching staff, et al.  Two years removed, it is interesting to look back and see what the posters thought then as compared to now.  jack loved him some Freeman and he seems to not be a Dorow believer today.  72 was his typical self.

These were apparently the golden days of the message board...much more entertaining than most of the drivel posted round these parts nowadays.

I haven't a clue what your reading but it amazes me how you like to interpret comments and statements. I never "Loved me some Freeman" as you put it. On the contrary, I felt he and Kirby had let the game pass them by, and needed a new philosophy to be sucessful. I did give him cudos for pulling out 10 wins with the shape his team was in, but honestly, I felt we let a couple go we shouldn't have. Dorow is in a different arena then she was used to competing in. I feel she needs to adopt to the changes, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. We're small, so we need to be smart. The two elements on O that i feel we need to step up our game on is the pick and roll, and the screen. We are very weak in both areas. we have the speed to have success in these areas, we just need to implement them into our game. Dribbling around aimlessly at times isn't getting it done. Like I said before, we need to work to our talents' strengths. I have no personal beef about Dorow, or her staff, I just prefer to watch the games and see where we have success, and where we do not. Dorow doesn't need me as a cheerleader, she has you! 
When your watching the next game try something for me. On offense, don't watch the ball. Concentrate on the movements of the other 4 players that don't have the ball. This can tell you a lot.

I've watched more basketball in the last 2 weeks than you have remembered in your entire life...

....

I kid, I kid!  Jack is a legend 'round these parts....I don't worship you like dcvalpo did, but I revere your knowledge.  And, hey, I don't mind being Dorow's cheerleader!  Thx for the props!

[SadersofthelostArc]

Ok, so with the recent mentions of dcvalpo, I went back at checked out some of his old postings.  This thread is gold.  Lots of awesome discussion about the girls' program, the coaching staff, et al.  Two years removed, it is interesting to look back and see what the posters thought then as compared to now.  jack loved him some Freeman and he seems to not be a Dorow believer today.  72 was his typical self.

These were apparently the golden days of the message board...much more entertaining than most of the drivel posted round these parts nowadays.

HEY!!!  I resemble that remark!! 

72!!!  How have you been?  Haven't seen you posting as much lately, or maybe you've toned things down.  Hope all is well and you are in good health!

[valpospartan]

there is clearly a problem.

I don't know about all the players he has coming in but here are two:

Mallory Ladd, an Indiana All Star who finished second in the Miss Basketball voting

Jessica Carr, who is also an Indiana All Star, and has been named the Player of the Year for the second year in a row by the Noblesville County Times.

I know he has a couple of other All State honorees on the current squad.  Last year was a mess for a few reasons including injuries and youth.  I think it is time for our women's team to step it up!!

So much negativity coming from you here VU72...Keith is a fantastic human being and a great coach and it is win-at-all-costs fanatics like yourself that cause us to lose perspective of what is really important at a school like Valpo.  Go cheer for Michigan State or UConn or Coach Cal at Kentucky if you want a program that plays by these rules. 

Comparing Tom Izzo to Calhoun and Calipari is like comparing the Pope to Hitler & Stalin.  Shame on you.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Dude, hate to break it to you, but the Pope is definitely a Wolverines fan.

[valpo04]

there is clearly a problem.

I don't know about all the players he has coming in but here are two:

Mallory Ladd, an Indiana All Star who finished second in the Miss Basketball voting

Jessica Carr, who is also an Indiana All Star, and has been named the Player of the Year for the second year in a row by the Noblesville County Times.

I know he has a couple of other All State honorees on the current squad.  Last year was a mess for a few reasons including injuries and youth.  I think it is time for our women's team to step it up!!

So much negativity coming from you here VU72...Keith is a fantastic human being and a great coach and it is win-at-all-costs fanatics like yourself that cause us to lose perspective of what is really important at a school like Valpo.  Go cheer for Michigan State or UConn or Coach Cal at Kentucky if you want a program that plays by these rules. 

Comparing Tom Izzo to Calhoun and Calipari is like comparing the Pope to Hitler & Stalin.  Shame on you.

This thread is nearly 2 years old and adopt the meme theme that we have started...

(Don't feed the trolls)

[SadersofthelostArc]

Sorry about that, 04.  VU72 comes creeping around and I can't resist feeding him from time to time.  LOL 

Side note:  How come you never used the avatar I made you?

[DMvalpo18]

Sorry about that, 04.  VU72 comes creeping around and I can't resist feeding him from time to time.  LOL 

Side note:  How come you never used the avatar I made you?

You have to get used to valpo04. He is a tough mod, but absolutely fair. We need that kind of presence perusing our board.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Actually, I've not found him to be tough (in the sense of Internet Tough Guy Here), at all.

Modding seems to me to be kind of like reffing--it's a difficult job, everyone rags on you when you trip up, and you're at your best when no one really even notices you're there.

And the fact that we have a moderator and don't hardly notice it is wonderful.

[SadersofthelostArc]

Actually, I've not found him to be tough (in the sense of Internet Tough Guy Here), at all.

Modding seems to me to be kind of like reffing--it's a difficult job, everyone rags on you when you trip up, and you're at your best when no one really even notices you're there.

And the fact that we have a moderator and don't hardly notice it is wonderful.

Quit ripping 04....he does the best he can.  I think it's time you learned to respect his authority.

Thanks for the heads up, btw, DMValpo...THAT is exactly the reason you are a "go-to poster" so to speak for me, when it comes to Valpo hoops, board rules and regs, etc.  Any chance we can make DM a mod???

[DMvalpo18]

Easy now! It's already bad enough that this two year old thread is at the top again. It's especially ridiculous when you consider that we are in the middle of the conference season!

[FWalum]

Easy now! It's already bad enough that this two year old thread is at the top again. It's especially ridiculous when you consider that we are in the middle of the conference season!

I second that motion.  Any discussion?  Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye  all those opposed same sign.... Hearing no opposition the motion passes.

[SadersofthelostArc]

Easy now! It's already bad enough that this two year old thread is at the top again. It's especially ridiculous when you consider that we are in the middle of the conference season!