Milw/GB KILLING us

wh · December 07, 2012, 12:02:08 AM

The Milwaukee board has a discussion going about whether we have become a "low major" conference. Of course the usual excuse about the "Butler effect" is getting a lot of play as the primary culprit. Those guys need to learn what the term "introspection" means and then try it. The truth is the 2 Wisconsin teams are killing the conference RPI all by themselves. If you take their respective RPI's out of the equation, the Horizon League would be 12th instead of 22nd - right where we have been for the past several years when the team they're so awe stricken by was on-board.

So, thanks a lot Milwaukee and GB. It's not easy to destroy a conference's standing and reputation all by yourself. But somehow you have managed to do it.

LaPorteAveApostle · December 07, 2012, 07:54:08 AM

Well I sincerely hope you told THEM this too, at least!

Ask them if they think Geiger will bring back Bruce Pearl. (Conversely, ask UWGB fans if there are any Bennetts left in the pipeline.)

That'll shut 'em up.

HC · December 07, 2012, 09:12:24 PM

Its OT in Milwaukee. They are tied with Northern Illinois.

HC · December 07, 2012, 09:42:25 PM

Milwaukee survived

valporun · December 08, 2012, 10:09:29 AM

If UW-Milwaukee had to go to OT to beat NIU, what did they do wrong? I forgot the game was until about 8:45 last night, so I caught OT, but that didn't say enough about what happened for UWM to be so bad against a beatable team.

milanmiracle · December 08, 2012, 01:35:46 PM

Quote from: wh on December 07, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
The Milwaukee board has a discussion going about whether we have become a "low major" conference. Of course the usual excuse about the "Butler effect" is getting a lot of play as the primary culprit. Those guys need to learn what the term "introspection" means and then try it. The truth is the 2 Wisconsin teams are killing the conference RPI all by themselves. If you take their respective RPI's out of the equation, the Horizon League would be 12th instead of 22nd - right where we have been for the past several years when the team they're so awe stricken by was on-board.

So, thanks a lot Milwaukee and GB. It's not easy to destroy a conference's standing and reputation all by yourself. But somehow you have managed to do it.

The reputation of this conference wasn't destroyed by Milwaukee or Green Bay. Yes, they are bringing the RPI down, but thats the least of the worries. The HL has 2, yes, just 2 BCS wins this season. That's what makes your reputation, not beating Kent State or IPFW. It will take some time to restore this reputation but it can be done over time. The Summit League (mid con) hasn't been the same since Valpo left, and I suspect the same will be true of the Horizon League. Like it or don't, but Butler was the face of the franchise. Final 4
s, preseason tournament championships and NCAA bids make that so. Who else has stepped up in their place? This conference is closer to a low major than a mid major right now.

*Butler has as many BCS wins as the entire conference...wonder why they left?

wh · December 08, 2012, 02:27:55 PM

Quote from: milanmiracle on December 08, 2012, 01:35:46 PM
Quote from: wh on December 07, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
The Milwaukee board has a discussion going about whether we have become a "low major" conference. Of course the usual excuse about the "Butler effect" is getting a lot of play as the primary culprit. Those guys need to learn what the term "introspection" means and then try it. The truth is the 2 Wisconsin teams are killing the conference RPI all by themselves. If you take their respective RPI's out of the equation, the Horizon League would be 12th instead of 22nd - right where we have been for the past several years when the team they're so awe stricken by was on-board.

So, thanks a lot Milwaukee and GB. It's not easy to destroy a conference's standing and reputation all by yourself. But somehow you have managed to do it.

The reputation of this conference wasn't destroyed by Milwaukee or Green Bay. Yes, they are bringing the RPI down, but thats the least of the worries. The HL has 2, yes, just 2 BCS wins this season. That's what makes your reputation, not beating Kent State or IPFW. It will take some time to restore this reputation but it can be done over time. The Summit League (mid con) hasn't been the same since Valpo left, and I suspect the same will be true of the Horizon League. Like it or don't, but Butler was the face of the franchise. Final 4
s, preseason tournament championships and NCAA bids make that so. Who else has stepped up in their place? This conference is closer to a low major than a mid major right now.

*Butler has as many BCS wins as the entire conference...wonder why they left?

The FIRST and MINIMUM responsibility EVERY HL team has is to win the majority of OOC games against other mid major opponents. Hopefully, this is obvious to everyone. As the math shows, the HL should be at the top (12th) of the middle-third of conferences. Instead, we are in the bottom-third (22nd), thanks to Milwaukee's and GB's pathetic performance against avg. to mediocre mid major opponents. THEN, of course upsetting a few high majors along the way would raise our conf. RPI even further and raise the profile of the league more, as well. We all recognize that Butler did that. That said, the bottom line is getting some upset wins over BCS teams is not a substitute for beating the teams you should beat. You have to crawl before you can walk, but it takes 9 teams to make that happen - not 7 doing their share and 2 anchors whose fans are expressing that they wish Butler were still here to carry them.

StlVUFan · December 08, 2012, 06:25:23 PM

Quote from: valporun on December 08, 2012, 10:09:29 AM
If UW-Milwaukee had to go to OT to beat NIU, what did they do wrong? I forgot the game was until about 8:45 last night, so I caught OT, but that didn't say enough about what happened for UWM to be so bad against a beatable team.

If you are comparing it to our win over NIU, you have to remember that Abdal Nader (who scored a lot last night) was suspended for our game.

wh · December 09, 2012, 04:58:20 PM

The HL RPI has improved to 16th. We would be 11th (ahead of C-USA) if not for the contributions of Milw (315 of 347) and GB (308 of 347).

oklahomamick · December 09, 2012, 10:09:46 PM

With that said, I hope we don't lose to those two

valporun · December 09, 2012, 10:37:00 PM

I'm not comparing our game to UWM's game against NIU, but what I don't understand is why the Panthers had to go to overtime?

wh · December 09, 2012, 11:35:06 PM

Quote from: valporun on December 09, 2012, 10:37:00 PM
I'm not comparing our game to UWM's game against NIU, but what I don't understand is why the Panthers had to go to overtime?

I watched most of the 2nd half. It was pretty entertaining. UWM seemed to have the game pretty well under control, but then went through a dry spell and let NIU back into it. NIU had a couple of key players foul out, which hurt them in OT. It was my first chance to see the Klotsche Center. It looked pretty small but everyone is right on top of the action. There were several empty seats but if the place were full, I bet it would really rock. My wife and I hope to go up this year and check it out in person. Personally, I have always preferred the atmosphere of a smaller venue with the stands full than the larger arenas maybe 30 or 40% full.

valporun · December 10, 2012, 10:08:07 AM

wh, I do agree with your assessment of how the Klotsche Center looked for basketball. I was used to seeing it for HL Volleyball action, but it looked better to have more people in a smaller venue than to have a few people in a cavern. It did look a tad like a bandbox, but in a basketball sense, I'd rather had a bandbox feel where the fans/students are into the game, rather than an arena where it looks big, but you can't see the people for the lighting. Yes, US Cellular Arena was nice to use as a selling point to recruits, but having the fans being right there getting in your, or an opponent's, ear is better than playing in a place where the coach getting in your ear can be heard along with the crickets chirping in the background.

agibson · December 10, 2012, 12:16:22 PM

Quote from: wh on December 09, 2012, 04:58:20 PMThe HL RPI has improved to 16th.

Still behind the OVC, the MAC, the Southland (?).

Looks like we're probably out of the SOS cellar, at least. We seem to have pulled ahead of the Big South, the Ivy, and the Patriot League. It's Loyola (321), Wright State (331), and Green Bay (336) that are the worst SOS offenders at the moment.

Oh, Green Bay. They did give a thumping to a half-decent North Dakota State team. But, overall, 3-5 against the 336th weakest schedule in the nation. Did we know they were going to be this bad?

wh · December 10, 2012, 09:28:11 PM

With Detroit's victory tonight over Alabama State, 7 of 9 HL teams now have winning records. Pretty cool...

wh · December 10, 2012, 10:29:27 PM

Quote from: wh on December 10, 2012, 09:28:11 PM
With Detroit's victory tonight over Alabama State, 7 of 9 HL teams now have winning records. Pretty cool...

Interestingly, the majority of teams in each of the top 11 conferences (according to conf. RPI) have winning records. Of the other 22 conferences, only the Horizon League has more teams with winning records than not.

chef · December 10, 2012, 11:30:40 PM

The is an important fact. If most of the HL teams have a winning record when the league play begins, then the conference RPI will improve throughout January and February because of the large weight your opponents record has on each team's RPI. It's been stated forever, just root for HL teams to win their non-conference games and the rest will take care of itself.

Pathfinder · December 11, 2012, 11:04:06 PM

Yeah, but remember that non-DI games don't count for RPI. So for RPI purposes, Detroit is 3-4 and Youngstown is 4-4. And Detroit could go downhill - they've got a tough game Saturday against Akron, and then Syracuse on the road. (Of course, if they beat Syracuse it's a big chit for the Horizon, but seriously...).

chef · December 12, 2012, 11:15:23 AM

Heading into tonight the composite Horizon League record vs D-I opponents is 41-33. Among the conferences that are ahead of them are the Northeast (41-58) and the Southland (18-42). If these numbers are similar over the next few weeks, then the HL's RPI will improve in January and February, while the Northeast's RPI and Southland's RPI will go down in January and February.

wh · December 12, 2012, 12:19:15 PM

Quote from: chef on December 12, 2012, 11:15:23 AM
Heading into tonight the composite Horizon League record vs D-I opponents is 41-33. Among the conferences that are ahead of them are the Northeast (41-58) and the Southland (18-42). If these numbers are similar over the next few weeks, then the HL's RPI will improve in January and February, while the Northeast's RPI and Southland's RPI will go down in January and February.

Also:
MAC 43-51
Ohio Valley 44-50

LaPorteAveApostle · December 12, 2012, 01:15:50 PM

Is there a site you can get these stats at?

In light of the Bracketbuster thread, it might be nice to be able to look at things like "MAC vs HL" etc. to assess how the unscheduled interconference "challenges" have worked out in past years...

wh · December 12, 2012, 03:39:22 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 12, 2012, 01:15:50 PM
Is there a site you can get these stats at?

In light of the Bracketbuster thread, it might be nice to be able to look at things like "MAC vs HL" etc. to assess how the unscheduled interconference "challenges" have worked out in past years...

For composite records against other D1's:

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi

To compare the HL against other conferences:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/compare?c2=missouri-valley&c1=horizon#chart

LaPorteAveApostle · December 12, 2012, 04:38:53 PM

awesome, thanks! now i'll have to cook up more schtuff

HC · December 12, 2012, 07:55:30 PM

Milwaukee just lost at Fairfield by 16.

VUfan · December 12, 2012, 08:23:21 PM

This should be titled "Would you like some Cheese With that Wine?" Thread, Just a thought

Milw/GB KILLING us

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