Milw/GB KILLING us

wh · December 13, 2012, 09:40:46 AM

I watched some of the GB/Wisconsin game last night on the BTN. Alec Brown is off to a rough start to the season. He had 8 pts last night, his 4th single digit scoring performance in 9 games. Overall he is averaging 11ppg and is only shooting 33% - not good for a 7-1 player projected as a 2nd round draft pick. Once conf begins he'll have a lot of favorable size matchups. Look for his numbers pick up pretty dramatically. In the meantime GB continues to be an RPI albatross.

wh · December 16, 2012, 12:53:59 AM

Quote from: wh on December 07, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
The Milwaukee board has a discussion going about whether we have become a "low major" conference. Of course the usual excuse about the "Butler effect" is getting a lot of play as the primary culprit. Those guys need to learn what the term "introspection" means and then try it. The truth is the 2 Wisconsin teams are killing the conference RPI all by themselves. If you take their respective RPI's out of the equation, the Horizon League would be 12th instead of 22nd - right where we have been for the past several years when the team they're so awe stricken by was on-board.

So, thanks a lot Milwaukee and GB. It's not easy to destroy a conference's standing and reputation all by yourself. But somehow you have managed to do it.

The Horizon League has improved from 22nd in conf. RPI to 15th in just the past week. It looks fairly possible to move up another 2-3 spots by the time conf. play begins.

HC · December 17, 2012, 12:59:14 PM

To make matters worse, GB has suspended Cougill indefinitely.

HC · December 19, 2012, 09:11:01 PM

Green Bay just knocked off Marquette!

StlVUFan · December 19, 2012, 09:25:02 PM

Quote from: HC on December 19, 2012, 09:11:01 PM
Green Bay just knocked off Marquette!

Saw that. How could that have happened? Marquette down this year?

I was thinking this was the 2nd time since Valpo joined the HL, until I realized I was thinking of their upset win over Wisconsin a few years ago.

HC · December 19, 2012, 09:59:25 PM

Any team can beat any other team on any given night. They did it without Cougill who has been suspended.

wh · December 23, 2012, 02:16:48 PM

The HL is now 12th in conference RPI. So much for the hand wringing on the Milw board that the HL is destined to be a "low" major without Butler.

milanmiracle · December 23, 2012, 10:00:58 PM

Quote from: wh on December 23, 2012, 02:16:48 PM
The HL is now 12th in conference RPI. So much for the hand wringing on the Milw board that the HL is destined to be a "low" major without Butler.

Realtime has the Horizon at 15, just a hair over the split of 32 conferences.

*Butler is 7th overall and the A10 is 6th.

wh · December 23, 2012, 11:11:08 PM

Quote from: milanmiracle on December 23, 2012, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: wh on December 23, 2012, 02:16:48 PM
The HL is now 12th in conference RPI. So much for the hand wringing on the Milw board that the HL is destined to be a "low" major without Butler.

Realtime has the Horizon at 15, just a hair over the split of 32 conferences.

*Butler is 7th overall and the A10 is 6th.

Realtime does not have Sat. or Sun. results. You have to get a paid membership to get same-day results on that site. With weekend games included we have moved up to 12th:

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi

Realtime has the Horizon at 15, just a hair over the split of 32 conferences.

How about a little more positive twist:

There are 26 non-BCS conferences and 1 group of "independents." So, the HL is 6th of 26 mid-major conferences. If Butler were still in the conference, we would be 10th overall and 4th of 26th mid-majors. Obviously, it would be nice to have Butler's numbers to include, but the important point is that the HL has not fallen off the cliff in Butler's absence. In fact, 12th is probably one of the better HL rankings in the past 10 years. Another important positive as pointed out on the WSU board is the fact that the HL looks a lot more attractive to prospective Butler replacements than it was only 3 or 4 weeks ago when we were in the 20-22nd range.

vu72 · December 23, 2012, 11:57:21 PM

Quote from: wh on December 23, 2012, 11:11:08 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 23, 2012, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: wh on December 23, 2012, 02:16:48 PM
The HL is now 12th in conference RPI. So much for the hand wringing on the Milw board that the HL is destined to be a "low" major without Butler.

Realtime has the Horizon at 15, just a hair over the split of 32 conferences.

*Butler is 7th overall and the A10 is 6th.

Realtime does not have Sat. or Sun. results. You have to get a paid membership to get same-day results on that site. With weekend games included we have moved up to 12th:

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi

Realtime has the Horizon at 15, just a hair over the split of 32 conferences.

How about a little more positive twist:

There are 26 non-BCS conferences and 1 group of "independents." So, the HL is 6th of 26 mid-major conferences. If Butler were still in the conference, we would be 10th overall and 4th of 26th mid-majors. Obviously, it would be nice to have Butler's numbers to include, but the important point is that the HL has not fallen off the cliff in Butler's absence. In fact, 12th is probably one of the better HL rankings in the past 10 years. Another important positive as pointed out on the WSU board is the fact that the HL looks a lot more attractive to prospective Butler replacements than it was only 3 or 4 weeks ago when we were in the 20-22nd range.

Ob viously well said. We are now 11th in the Sagarins, ahead of Conference USA.

LaPorteAveApostle · December 24, 2012, 08:30:22 AM

If there are 6 BCS conferences and 26 "mid-major" conferences, where are the "low-major" ones, then?

Lookin' at you, MEAC, SWAC et al.

EddieCabot · December 27, 2012, 10:26:09 PM

Quote from: wh on December 23, 2012, 11:11:08 PMIn fact, 12th is probably one of the better HL rankings in the past 10 years.

I recall the Horizon being #11 a couple of times, but even in the '09-'10 season, with Butler going 33-5, the league ended up #14. I'll admit I was a tad skeptical about the Horizon's ability to stay in the 12-14 range without Butler, but it seems as if they haven't missed a beat. Kudos.

wh · December 30, 2012, 04:54:25 PM

3 strong RPI-boosting wins over the weekend to conclude non-conference play (other than BB's) - Valpo over Murray State, Loyola over DePaul, and Detroit over Canisius - have helped solidify the Horizon League's position as the No.12 conference in RPI standings. In fact the HL is now barely behind Conference USA for 11th place.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi

Excellent job in the first post-Butler year.

vu72 · December 30, 2012, 05:02:50 PM

Quote from: wh on December 30, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
3 strong RPI-boosting wins over the weekend to conclude non-conference play (other than BB's) - Valpo over Murray State, Loyola over DePaul, and Detroit over Canisius - have helped solidify the Horizon League's position as the No.12 conference in RPI standings. In fact the HL is now barely behind Conference USA for 11th place.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi

Excellent job in the first post-Butler year.

In the Sagarin's we are #11 with Conference USA being #12. Valpo now #83 and UIC #79

wh · February 11, 2013, 03:04:54 AM

Taking Milwaukee out of the equation, the HL would be 11th in conference RPI right now - ahead of Conference USA. That's not even counting that the other 8 teams would have higher RPI's than they do, if not for having played Milwaukee. I recently looked at their recruiting board to see who they have coming in, and it doesn't look too good. Even worse they no longer have the recruiting advantage of a nice city arena, and they have a coach with a long term contract. It looks like Milwaukee could be mired in mediocrity for some time. Not good news for the rest of the conference.

StlVUFan · February 11, 2013, 08:17:09 AM

This tweet, however, was completely uncalled for: https://twitter.com/alexvoerman/status/297519888837246976

LaPorteAveApostle · February 11, 2013, 10:21:41 AM

Quote from: wh on February 11, 2013, 03:04:54 AMI recently looked at their recruiting board to see who they have coming in, and it doesn't look too good.

Yeah, I thought, "they're terrible!! at least they must be young" until I found that:
--FOUR of their seven-man-rotation is seniors
--and two more are juniors!
--And one of those is Jordan Aaron!!!

Home Alone Screams

oklahomamick · February 11, 2013, 01:39:26 PM

UWM athletics are a mess right now. New AD and several people around campus and the town are unhappy. They will struggle for the next couple years for sure.

a3uge · February 11, 2013, 10:56:09 PM

It's kind of hard to go from telling recruits that they'll be playing on the same floor as Kareem did when he won an NBA title to showing them a gym where their initial reaction is going to be "boy my high school gym is bigger than this."

While obviously facetious about kicking them out of the Horizon, I do think we should wonder if they'll be competitive in basketball in the distant future.

StlVUFan · February 12, 2013, 01:46:14 AM

Quote from: a3uge on February 11, 2013, 10:56:09 PM
It's kind of hard to go from telling recruits that they'll be playing on the same floor as Kareem did when he won an NBA title to showing them a gym where their initial reaction is going to be "boy my high school gym is bigger than this."

While obviously facetious about kicking them out of the Horizon, I do think we should wonder if they'll be competitive in basketball in the distant future.

"We", as the newbies, are in no position to be talking about kicking anyone out of the conference, is *my* point.

LaPorteAveApostle · February 12, 2013, 06:12:45 AM

Quote from: a3uge on February 11, 2013, 10:56:09 PMIt's kind of hard to go from telling recruits that they'll be playing on the same floor as Kareem did when he won an NBA title to showing them a gym where their initial reaction is going to be "boy my high school gym is bigger than this."

Oh yeah? Well this is the same floor KAREEM JUNIOR sat and watched the 1996 MID-CON CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM!!!

a3uge · February 12, 2013, 08:56:56 AM

Quote from: StlVUFan on February 12, 2013, 01:46:14 AM
Quote from: a3uge on February 11, 2013, 10:56:09 PM
It's kind of hard to go from telling recruits that they'll be playing on the same floor as Kareem did when he won an NBA title to showing them a gym where their initial reaction is going to be "boy my high school gym is bigger than this."

While obviously facetious about kicking them out of the Horizon, I do think we should wonder if they'll be competitive in basketball in the distant future.
"We", as the newbies, are in no position to be talking about kicking anyone out of the conference, is *my* point.

Again, not actually being serious about kicking UWM out.

oklahomamick · February 12, 2013, 09:52:41 AM

Talking about getting kicked out.....Can someone explain to me how Chicago State was kicked out?

valpotx · February 12, 2013, 10:51:06 AM

Subpar academic and athletic performances, and I believe some scandals

LaPorteAveApostle · February 12, 2013, 10:52:44 AM

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 12, 2013, 09:52:41 AMCan someone explain to me how Chicago State was kicked out?

http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=print&thread=3496

Found this on the old board, of which I was not a part. Amusing to say the least. Apparently the takeaways are:
1) we've been talking about expansion and realignment for YEARZ
2) we've always had a tendency to start long threads that end far from where they started.

here's a series of interesting articles on the topic from collegesports.info:
http://collegesportsinfo.com/2006/04/20/chicago-st-to-leave-the-mid-continent-conference/

http://collegesportsinfo.com/2008/10/24/chicago-st-joins-great-west/

http://collegesportsinfo.com/2009/04/29/life-at-the-bottom-of-the-conference-realignment-shuffle/